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Author Topic: Discerning the evolutionary condition of children...?  (Read 5408 times)
Steve
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 23, 2009, 03:21 PM »

hi Ellen
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the idea that a person transitioning from a consensus to an individuated state, not understanding what is happening, may blame society for its newly felt sense of alienation.  On the one hand, there is the social conditioning, which is true.  On the other hand, there is the need for personal responsibility. 

yes those things can be true.  The hallmark of stage 1 indiv is a feeling of being different and not wanting to be different, trying to hide the differences, compensating by acting "normal" (i.e. how everyone else does).  Typically the true "normal" people can see there is something different about that person anyway.

If the person is of a masochistic temperament they could blame self for their sense of alienation "What is wrong with me?, why can't I be like everyone else?".   Whereas others would blame external forces, victimization (a Pisces attribute).

As the Soul evolves into the higher forms of the individuated stage it learns that feeling alienated is part of the price it must pay for being an individual, since at least 70% of people (consensus) are not individuals (don't think for themselves).  To a person who follows the herd, a person who thinks for self is perceived as threatening. 

People follow the herd because they believe that brings security - acceptance by the mass of the group.  The individuated person has begun to notice that this acceptance is dependent on conforming to the collective's (conditioned) beliefs/values, that when one's views are contrary, the acceptance disappears.  Thus that is not real security at all.  The ultimate lesson is that the only true security is within. 

Most of us have been conditioned to look without for security.  That becomes the source of the alienation- "so few see things as I do".  At first it feels lonely and limiting.  Through following that path one becomes increasingly aware of their own uniqueness - which becomes increasingly liberating.  Thus the price of alienation is balanced by increased self-awareness.  Souls making the transition from consensus to individuated don't yet have that increased self-awareness.  Thus they may experience more of the detrimental aspects of that process, and so resist it.

To tie this back to the evolutionary condition of children, when you see signs in a child of a capacity to be an individual, to not let the need for approval from others limit its forms of self-expression, who seems to understand in some deep way some essential things about the nature of life, is described by others as being wise beyond their years, these are signs of a Soul that is in a more advanced evolutionary state.  Signs of this can be seen from early childhood.  They are going to FEEL all that alienation - it does not go away in the spiritual state - if anything it intensifies - but it can be better accepted in the spiritual state - the Soul has come to take it as a given.  Whether they LIKE it is another issue altogether - acceptance is required.   The same sort of questions or signs you would look for in an adult in terms of determining evolutionary stage can be applied to a child - they are just going to express these words or attitudes in ways aligned with the way a child will think.  They are still a child, even if the soul is very highly evolved.   The working of these things is what EA calls Natural Law - it is the way that life is, that life actually works, regardless of what I think about those ways.  Its simply What Is, self-evident.
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Elen
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 24, 2009, 03:04 AM »

Thanks so much, Steve.  I think I understand what I need to for now...

Ellen
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2009, 03:14 AM by Ellen » Logged
Lucius
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« Reply #32 on: Jan 07, 2010, 07:35 PM »

Thanks Steve for going deeper into the evolutionary states.

I've thought & posted (old board, I think) that Capricorn/Saturn does not have to be a negative manifestation - that it is now, and for quite awhile now, is a result of human consciousness being relatively less open to Source - if I am understanding the Yugas, or cosmic cycles properly.  In other ages where human consciousness was relatively open to Spirit the consensus would be vastly different.  I am thinking of this because of the Lakota consensus vs. modern consensus child example- or I should say a kid in a store.  The lakota child would be consensus & adopting the prevailing social norms, beliefs etc. without much thought however the room to evolve naturally & the social structure being in tune with natural law would be a rather different situation than the child growing up in a high-chair in front of a movie they watch ten times a day, etc.  I guess it's clear that if humans are to survive & the earth to be healed consensus society needs to have natural law as it's structure - seems a long way off though.  How long is this Kali yuga, now?  Wink

I would add that in natural law, first there is natural 'democracy' and that spiritual elders are the leaders not power hungry, greedy know-nothings.  It's interesting to observe the different trajectories of European culture vs. what we call indigenous or 'native'.

By the way - that article that was posted on the old 'uraniaweb' board - ?  All about cycles, consciousness - completely amazing!  I printed it out, but, afraid it's in a perpetually packed box - any chance of posting it here, again?

Thanks for letting me post my thoughts!
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Lucius
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« Reply #33 on: Jan 11, 2010, 09:08 AM »

I was reading this morning from 'native american healing' by Howard P. Bad Hand & came across some guidance his uncle was giving him that perfectly illustrates the positive message of Capricorn/Saturn I thought I'd share:

'We have to know capability, ability, and how far we can stretch things, but we must also know how to define and discrimninate the difference between good and evil.  In the world, this is the backbone of people's behavior.  The rules of conduct, the rules of behavior, morality.  When you look out in the world, when you look at a tree, and you see it's beauty, and you see it's perfection as a living entity, when you wake up one day and realize that the beauty and perfection of that tree came about because of the boundaries that define what it is, you'll realize that life is not meant to be a path of unlimited possibilities.  Unlimited possibilities for human kind would make human kind dissolve into the boundless......We attain free spirit when we surround ourselves with these boundaries, and by these boundaries, we determine for ourselves what our duty is....this leads to the proper relationship between you and the Spirit World, between you and the service you provide, and it allows people to know what to ask of you because your conduct, your behavior, will show them."

Thought folks here would enjoy that!
« Last Edit: Jan 11, 2010, 09:12 AM by Lucius » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #34 on: Jan 11, 2010, 01:53 PM »

What an incredible manifestation, and validation, of the NATURAL LAWS of from the ORIGINAL SPIRIT OF ALL. Thanks for sharing this Lucius.

 Rad
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Lia
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« Reply #35 on: Jan 12, 2010, 01:18 AM »

Hi Lucius and all,

Yeah, what a great expression about the natural capr. values and roles within our manifested creation - the true relationship between spirit and manifestation.....
Like to add that those people who were manifesting the natural capr. values within patriarchy (either as a person or as a group of people) have been most scapegoated, judged, opressed and crashed...

Thanks for sharing this!

Lia
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ari moshe
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« Reply #36 on: Jan 13, 2010, 05:33 PM »

That's beautiful Lucius. I just got two clients in a row with some combination of the Pisces Capricorn archetypes in their chart. It's a perfect quote for a soul that is learning how to accept the spiritual importance of boundaries.
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Dhyana
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« Reply #37 on: Sep 15, 2011, 01:19 AM »

A question occurred to me tonight while contemplating a child and her parents charts.

Would consensus children ever be born to parents that were either in individuated or spiritual states. If so, can you explain? And does anyone have an example.

If not, can you explain?  


Curiously,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Sep 15, 2011, 02:49 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #38 on: Sep 15, 2011, 08:00 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

Yes, this can and has happened on this Earth. And there is no one explanation for it as all evolutionary and karmic conditions are unique and specific to each Soul including the parents who would have such a child.

God Bless, Rad

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Dhyana
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« Reply #39 on: Sep 15, 2011, 11:57 AM »

Thank you Rad, that is what I figured.  But do you think it may be more of a rare occurrence for parents in higher evolutionary conditions to have consensus children, or no?

It is more of a challenge to discern the evolutionary condition of a child than an adult (to me at least). Having children myself, and having a lot of children around me --their friends in our house regularly and many nieces and nephews,etc. , I have noticed that children have a strong need to conform to their enviornment, especially to their peers.  
If they have a strong Capricorn, 10th house or Saturn, it seems to me, that it is even harder to discern.

However, I remember when Deva had said that in discerning the evolutionary state of a child, look and see their bottom line, and if there is a "alienation" from the group.
I have noticed that almost all the children and the friends that end up at my home (more than once at least) have some kind of "alienation from the group" feeling going on.
When Deva said that that really helped. Now is there a really good clue (like the alienation one that Deva gave) to discern consensus children. I seem to be having a hard time with this one with children!  Hmmm  Huh If at any given time, 70% are consensus, I don't know why I should be having such a hard time seeing this one  Undecided  What am I missing?
Any comments?

Thanks,
 Dhyana
« Last Edit: Sep 15, 2011, 12:17 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #40 on: Sep 16, 2011, 06:02 AM »


Hi Dhyana,

I would say that it is not common for parents who themselves have evolved to the spiritual condition to have children in the consensus. I don't think I would use the word 'rare' to describe this, but simply not common.

It can quite difficult to know the evolutionary condition of a child when very young. As ever it does come down to observation and correlation but that normally requires some time to assess correctly. There are no magic techniques to employ: only observation over an amount of time can lead to the right understanding.

God Bless, Rad
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Dhyana
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« Reply #41 on: Sep 16, 2011, 11:03 AM »

Thank you Rad, for taking the time to respond,

I understand.
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