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Author Topic: ? re:is it possible to discern if someone has died prematurely?  (Read 667 times)
Elen
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« on: Sep 04, 2011, 10:28 AM »

Hi All,

I was just watching a Michael Jackson video that someone had posted on fb.  As I was watching it I was wondering if he was supposed to die then.  I remembered reading in Patricia Walsh's book that some Souls she worked with had prior lives in which they died but were not supposed to die at that time.  I am wondering if it is possible to tell, from an EA perspective when looking at the chart, if someone has died prematurely.

Thanks,
Ellen
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 05, 2011, 07:17 AM »

Hi Ellen,

He died then because of choices he had been making. Relative to his death he had chosen to have a doctor administer to him a very powerful drug, I forgot the name of it now, that was mainly used by doctors during surgery to put people into a deep sleep. He did this because he had a very difficult time sleeping: he had a hard time turning off his brain in order to sleep. The doctor whom he paid a great deal of money too to not only do this, but to also obtain the drug, apparently administered to much which then lead to his death.

To say this was a 'premature' death, or that he was not 'supposed' to die, would be wrong from the point of view that all Souls are responsible for their own actions. He made his choices, and experienced the consequence of those choices. It's not uncommon for a Soul who experiences a sudden and unexpected death to feel that it was not 'supposed' to die.

There are many possible symbols for early and/or sudden deaths. Mars in the 11th, Mars conjunct the North or South Nodes, Mars is opposition or square Uranus, Uranus in the 1st, Uranus in the 8th House, the S.Node in the 11th, Mars squaring the Nodes, Uranus squaring the Nodes, and the S.Node in Aries are some of them.

In Jackson's case he had many of these symbols as you can see from his chart.

God Bless, Rad



* jackson.jpg (52.4 KB, 685x560 - viewed 99 times.)
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Elen
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 05, 2011, 08:26 AM »

Hi Ellen,

He died then because of choices he had been making. Relative to his death he had chosen to have a doctor administer to him a very powerful drug, I forgot the name of it now, that was mainly used by doctors during surgery to put people into a deep sleep. He did this because he had a very difficult time sleeping: he had a hard time turning off his brain in order to sleep. The doctor whom he paid a great deal of money too to not only do this, but to also obtain the drug, apparently administered to much which then lead to his death.

Hi Rad, Yes, I understand the details of his death.  Even though I was never a fan, being from his generation and having essentially grown up with him, I felt quite affected by his death and paid close attention to the story when I heard about it, See below for more...



To say this was a 'premature' death, or that he was not 'supposed' to die, would be wrong from the point of view that all Souls are responsible for their own actions. He made his choices, and experienced the consequence of those choices. It's not uncommon for a Soul who experiences a sudden and unexpected death to feel that it was not 'supposed' to die.

I totally appreciate and get this.  And it is actually very helpful for me to read and take in.  My question arose from something I remembered reading in Patricia Walsh's book.  There is a story in there (I'm sorry, I can't remember under which archetype it appears) in which after a Soul died, it was revealed to her/him that s/he wasn't supposed to die at that time.  Clearly the Soul, as that person in that life, made that choice.  But it was interesting to me, and surprising to me, that someone could make that choice when it wasn't a given that it would be so.  Perhaps that is always true with a choice for suicide.  Just never thought about it like that before.  Just always assumed that if a person died, whether by suicide or not, it was sort of a given that that was indeed the time.  Hope that makes sense as to what prompted my question.  Your answer makes more sense of course.  Just because there may be a plan or design with which we come in, doesn't mean that's what we'll line up with.  I suppose that's why people end up with skipped steps... And I suppose the reality of choice around this has everything to do with separating desires as opposed to returning desires. (?)


Addition: The story in Pat's book was very helpful for me because it struck me that it would be very HELPFUL for someone to hear they weren't supposed to die at the time they did.  Like that would just be really helpful information in terms of gaining perspective on the choices that were made and why and knowing that there was more that could have been lived and learned in a given life.  No doubt I've died early and even by suicide in my own past lives (Mars conjunct SN), so perhaps this is why this whole topic is resonating with me.......  

There are many possible symbols for early and/or sudden deaths. Mars in the 11th, Mars conjunct the North or South Nodes, Mars is opposition or square Uranus, Uranus in the 1st, Uranus in the 8th House, the S.Node in the 11th, Mars squaring the Nodes, Uranus squaring the Nodes, and the S.Node in Aries are some of them.

Thank you.  This is incredibly helpful.  And indeed it may have been the Aries/Mars archetype in Patricia's book where I came across that story.  I do remember Aries/Mars being about early deaths.



In Jackson's case he had many of these symbols as you can see from his chart.


Thank you for posting his chart!

Well wishes,
Ellen



Addition: in looking more closely at his chart, it seems that this was a repetition of past life dynamics: SN Pluto and SN Saturn in the 8th, SN of the Moon in Aries in the 11th.  Mars, which rules the SN of Moon is square Uranus.  And with Mars in a waning phase to Pluto, a pattern his Soul has been engaged in for some time....






« Last Edit: Sep 05, 2011, 08:47 AM by Ellen » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 06, 2011, 07:06 AM »

Hi Ellen,

"And I suppose the reality of choice around this has everything to do with separating desires as opposed to returning desires. (?)"

*************

In the end yes, but it mainly about the teachings about the nature of choices in general, and the consequences of those choices.

**************

God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 06, 2011, 09:03 AM »

Hi Ellen,

"And I suppose the reality of choice around this has everything to do with separating desires as opposed to returning desires. (?)"

*************

In the end yes, but it mainly about the teachings about the nature of choices in general, and the consequences of those choices.

**************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank  you.  This makes a lot of sense....

Warmly,
Ellen
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