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Author Topic: Relationship between Uranus and Pluto  (Read 1756 times)
serban_p
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« on: Sep 15, 2011, 09:44 AM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to ask something about the relationship between Uranus and Pluto (i.e. the relationship between the individuated unconscious and the Soul).

JWG writes that:
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The Soul contains within itself all the prior life memories from every life it has ever lived. And the Soul has its own ‘identity’, or ego. This identity or ‘ego’ is not the same as the ego that the Soul creates in any given life on places like Earth. The ego of the Soul is one’s ‘eternal’ identity

He also writes that:
Quote
Uranus also correlates, in complete detail, to all the memories of this and other lives.

So my first question is whether this “ego” of the Soul is symbolized by Uranus.

I understand that during its incarnation on Earth, the Soul interacts emotionally with the environment it finds itself in through the vehicle, the lens, provided by the ego (the Moon). Furthermore, during its incarnation on Earth, the Soul also needs a human consciousness because it has to adapt to the phenomena of time and space (Saturn) and this structure of human consciousness (Saturn) might get too rigid for evolution to proceed. Therefore, I see why Uranus is constantly trying to, in JWG’s words, “knock on Saturn’s door” so as to shatter conditioning patterns. However, I’m curious about the role player by Uranus in respect to Pluto directly, not necessarily its function in relation to Saturn.

Pluto symbolizes the deepest patterns of emotional security to which people unconsciously gravitate while Uranus correlates to an area where patterns (including conditioning patterns from a Soul’s prior lives) must be thrown off to discover the de-conditioned self. So if both Pluto and Uranus involve leaving behind certain patterns, what is the relationship between the two? More specifically, what is the relationship between the de-conditioned self and the Soul? How does the individuated unconscious contribute to the ongoing evolution of a Soul? What part does it play?

I keep thinking that the reason that people gravitate to dynamics symbolized by Pluto lies in the fact that these dynamics provide them with a sense of security, as they are familiar to the Soul, they are “known” to the Soul. Yet at this point in my reasoning the title of JWG’s book on Uranus immediately comes to mind: “Freedom from the known”, so it appears that we are dealing with several dynamics that are “known” and familiar, as symbolized by both Pluto and the patterns that Uranus is trying to shatter.

Furthermore, if: (i) Pluto’s polarity point symbolizes the dynamics that need to be embraced in order to bring about the Soul’s evolution; and (ii) Uranus contains in a blueprint-like way abstract information that relates to one's larger future, it seems to me that there is some overlapping between them in the sense that they both point to the next steps in the Soul’s evolution.

While trying to understand this relationship, it occurred to me that there is a first quarter square between Scorpio (the Soul) and Aquarius (the de-conditioned self), however I am not sure what this means in this context. Since the challenge in the first quarter square lies in the fact that one must struggle to establish a concrete form so as to actualize what has started at the new phase conjunction, could the first quarter square between Scorpio and Aquarius correspond to the blueprint-like potential that JWG referred to when he talked about Uranus, in the sense that the “structure” that has to be achieved is a structure that is free from conditioning patterns? (something similar to Uranus breaking new ground, laying the foundation for the next steps in evolution, practically “paving the way” for Pluto). Can we say that evolution cannot proceed (i.e. Pluto’s polarity point cannot be actualized) without the proper structure (i.e. human consciousness - Saturn) in place and the only way for the existing structure to become suitable for the Soul’s next evolutionary step is by achieving the Uranus deconditioning?

Finally, although I realize that Pluto (the Soul) is the root cause of everything in the birth chart, including Uranus, I am not sure how to put it all together. I am sensing that the answers to my questions might also have something to do with the relationship between the mental body (as symbolized by Uranus and its lower octave, Mercury) and the emotional body (as symbolized by Pluto and the Moon), but I am not sure if I am correct or how to conceptualize this.

I apologize if my thoughts are rambling, please know that I’ve tried to express them as coherently as possible, however I just realized that as much as I try to do that, they inevitably come out in a typical Uranian fashion.

All the best,

Serban
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Steve
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 15, 2011, 11:41 AM »

Hi Serban

Let's look at the relationship between 4th house and 8th house.  4th house is what we call the ego, the personality.  In reality the ego is created by the Soul as part of its own evolutionary process.  Many of us may know the fact that the ego is not what it appears to be, that its actually a creation of the Soul and can't exist apart from the Soul.  Very few of us live from an emotional reality where we perceive ourselves day to day as the Soul.  Even though we know the intellectual fact we are, we operate emotionally from the reality of the 4th house, as if the ego is an ultimate reality.

The ego of the Soul IS the Soul.  It's not anything outside that Soul. Here we look at the relationship between 12th house and 8th house, to parallel the relationship between 8th and 4th.  12th house is the ultimate reality, the source of all created realities.  The Soul may know that as information, but very few souls on earth live from a consistent emotional reality of that place, that ultimate oneness.  The Soul's emotional reality, sense of self, is rooted in I am this Soul.

In reality everything is unified and comes from The One - 12th house - and there is no separation between any two Souls.  In actuality Souls experience themselves as separate and distinct from other Souls, even if they also see that all Souls are one, just as we see ourselves as separate and distinct from all other humans.   That is the ego of the Soul - its sense of Who I Am as distinct from all other Souls.

As far as Uranus, I'd like to highlight a few other Uranian correlations - fracturing, trauma, and integration.  One of the reasons we have such difficulty seeing the totality of this and try to grasp the totality by reassembling the parts is because of the severe fracturing/fragmentation that has occurred in many many Souls.   A major part of the deconditioning process is realizing one's own fracturing, and going through the ongoing process of re-integrating self.  Its like Humpty Dumpty who had a great fall and fractured into pieces that couldn't be put back together again.  Except they can be put back together over time, step by step.  And, the ongoing evolutionary process requires they must, little by little, over time through self-acceptance and patience.  That is why we must decondition, to see the greater totality of who we are and how we got in the place we now are.

As that process proceeds, one finds the answers to the questions you are asking within self.  You do see the parts.  As you said, you don't quite know how to assemble them into a whole. That's because that's not something you do - it appears in flashes of intuition, of seeing the whole assembled, greater than its parts, beyond what can be be perceived through left brain analysis. 

The value for you in pondering these questions is it keeps them active in your consciousness.  That leads to the inevitable flashes of intuition. Those flashes are signs that the reintegration process is occurring.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 15, 2011, 02:40 PM »

That was really insightful Steve, thank you.

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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 16, 2011, 06:59 AM »

Hi Serban,

Adding a little bit to what Steve has said.

"So my first question is whether this “ego” of the Soul is symbolized by Uranus."

No. The ego of the Soul is within itself: the Soul, thus Pluto.

The core role of the archetype of Uranus, relative to the Soul and Pluto, is to quicken or accelerate the evolution of the Soul itself. The archetype of Uranus correlates to the the memories within the Soul that correlate to it's prior lifetimes, as well as core blueprint, knowledge, that symbolizes it's evolutionary future when that future is understood in the context of it's past: Saturn. Thus, each Soul's history and future is unique to itself, yet, at the same time, all Soul's of course share in the ultimate evolutionary future which is to return HOME to it's origin: God, Neptune.

The past is always defining the present moment as well as the future itself. The future and the past interface in each moment in time: the now. The Soul's evolutionary past is thus the determinant of it's own unique moment, or life. In any given life of the Soul that past is familiar and known, thus secure. This is of course why most Souls evolve very slowly because that past is a known quantity. To move into any given moment that is completely free from that past is to create, for most Soul's, a state of complete psychological and emotional insecurity. Thus, most Soul's desire to stay connected to their past in order to feel psychologically secure and stable. Yet the Soul must evolve of course. The next step in it's evolution is symbolized by the EA paradigm that is the basis of the evolutionary journey of the Soul. Uranus correlates with the desire to quicken the evolutionary journey of the Soul, to accelerate it: 'to be free from the known'.

To be free from the known is to emotionally and psychologically detach from the totality of all the lives that the Soul has lived which have brought it to it's current lifetime. In this detachment the Soul is then able to observe itself in such a way as to be able to objectify all the inner dynamics within it that have been responsible for all that it has ever been and done. This objectification thus allows for a total knowledge of the Soul itself in such a way that the Soul by way of Uranus can then be free of that past because of the  objectified knowledge of it. In this consciousness of detachment the Soul is then able by way of Uranus to determine what desires exist within it that it must act upon, desires to act upon, and the desires within it that no longer need to be acted upon: to liberate from them in this way.

In this way the Soul is thus able to quicken or accelerate it's evolution because it is no longer being conditioned by it's past to the extent that that past is holding the Soul back from actualizing it's next steps in evolution in the fastest or quickest way possible. The polarity point of Pluto in any chart will be actualized to some extent by all Souls. Most Souls as JWG taught only make the most minimal efforts to do so because of the pull of their past: the familiar and the known. The natural first quarter square from the 8th and Scorpio to the 11th and Aquarius that you asked about thus correlates to the 'crisis in action' relative to what paths to follow that allow for the quickest possible way for the Soul to evolve.


God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 16, 2011, 03:55 PM »

The natural first quarter square from the 8th and Scorpio to the 11th and Aquarius that you asked about thus correlates to the 'crisis in action' relative to what paths to follow that allow for the quickest possible way for the Soul to evolve.

God Bless, Rad

Serban, thanks for your question.  And Rad and Steve, thanks for your answers.

Rad, I just wanted to clarify something.  So, when looking at an individual chart, you would be looking at the square between Pluto and whatever is in a 1st quarter square to it to determine the quickest possible way?  Or would you be looking at Pluto in the chart and Uranus in the chart, regardless of where they are, and thinking in terms of that intrinsic 1st quarter square?

Thanks,
Ellen
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serban_p
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 16, 2011, 04:50 PM »

Hi Steve, Rad,

Thank you so much for your answers..it has been tremendously helpful for me to read all that you have written. I will try to assimilate what you shared and I will post again once I do that.

All the best,

Serban
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ari moshe
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 16, 2011, 05:31 PM »

Hi moderators, may I post something from the course transcript that I feel beautifully exemplifies these teachings?
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Rad
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 17, 2011, 06:41 AM »

Hi Ellen,

"Rad, I just wanted to clarify something.  So, when looking at an individual chart, you would be looking at the square between Pluto and whatever is in a 1st quarter square to it to determine the quickest possible way?  Or would you be looking at Pluto in the chart and Uranus in the chart, regardless of where they are, and thinking in terms of that intrinsic 1st quarter square?"

************

No to this. What I was answering was Serban's questions about the archetypal relationship between the 8th House, and the 11th House, the natural first quarter square between Scorpio and Aquarius, thus the planetary rulers of these two signs. In essence, there is they natural dynamic tension within the structural nature of consciousness for all Souls on this Earth.

***************

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 17, 2011, 06:43 AM »

Hi Ari,

 Sure go ahead ...........

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 17, 2011, 10:36 AM »

Hi everyone,
I feel this may be helpful to add as well. From JWG's transcript course page 67, describing the planetary correlations to the root chakra:

Quote
Tripple rulership, three layers. The outer layer correlates with Saturn, the middle layer with Uranus, and the nucleus with Pluto. Now most people think somehow that the root charka and/or Kundalini is specifically linked with sexuality. This is a false thought. Kundalini has no specific relationship to sexuality. What you have here is the situation where, because the nucleus is Pluto, we correlate this with the specific action of Kundalini. However, the outer layer of this chakra is Saturn, and that means the ignition of kundalini is latent in most people. Why? They are living, Saturn, in a consensus state, which in and of itself, psychologically speaking, prohibits the ignition of Kundalini. So the Kundalini gland, which is just on the other side of this chakra, remains latent or dormant, Saturn, in most.

Now when that is the fact, this glad remains locked, retentive, This chakra specifically then correlates to the quality and condition of the lower extremities, the function of the nerves, the muscles, the circulation patterns, and also the quality and function of the anal canal. For example, in cultures like this (saturn being the outer layer, or ruler), people typically develop hemorrhoids. Now why does that occur? Because there is not a free flow of movement of feces, and the person has to create internalized pressure to eliminate, which becomes the causal factor in hemorrhoids. How does this connect to the idea of Saturn? You see how this is working!

When the soul decides to make a conscious act to evolve, that is to move away from the consensus, right then and there, the middle layer, Uranus is stimulated, meaning liberation from the consensus. And on that basis, this chakra begins to quicken, Uranus, meaning it is beginning to vibrate differently. This now becomes analogous to fissure lines in the crust of the earth. And what is coming through these fissure lines? Possibly lava. Lava here correaltes with Kundalini. Meaning, as this chakra begins to quicken and vibrate differently, it is the quickening and vibrational action that causes the Kundalini to be ignited.

And when kunalini is ignited, it can crate any manner of physical symptoms that cannot be diagnosed by any allopathic doctor. Why? The initial intention of Kundalini is to penetrate (Pluto) to the nucleus of every cell that needs to be either healed or alchemically changed. In the context of purging toxins, for example, from the nucleus of the cell, relative to Kundalini, the typical symptomology is either feeling intense heat in that area, or intense cold, for no apparant reason. In extreme cases, it will create transitory paralysis in those areas. Kundalini is a remarkable physiological substance.

So his teachings here beautifully signify the relationship between the Aquarius and Pluto archetype. As the soul liberates from the total conditioning factors that have been dormant within the soul's consciousness, from all prior life times, the psychological space is then created, for an actual transmutation of consciousness. This ignites and accelerates the evolutionary process to occur.

I think this may be the reason why I observe and often recommend people who have strong Aquarius/Scorpio themes in their chart to explore kundalini yoga and such practices.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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Elen
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 17, 2011, 11:43 AM »

Hi Ellen,

"Rad, I just wanted to clarify something.  So, when looking at an individual chart, you would be looking at the square between Pluto and whatever is in a 1st quarter square to it to determine the quickest possible way?  Or would you be looking at Pluto in the chart and Uranus in the chart, regardless of where they are, and thinking in terms of that intrinsic 1st quarter square?"

************

No to this. What I was answering was Serban's questions about the archetypal relationship between the 8th House, and the 11th House, the natural first quarter square between Scorpio and Aquarius, thus the planetary rulers of these two signs. In essence, there is they natural dynamic tension within the structural nature of consciousness for all Souls on this Earth.

***************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you for clarifying.  Just to follow up with one further question, is there then any usefulness to looking at the relationship between the rulers of the 8th and 11th with regard to gleaning any information about the nature of this crisis in action?  Or were you talking strictly in terms of the natural square between the 8th/11th and Pluto/Uranus...?

Thanks, again.  And sorry for not understanding you the first time (and possibly the 2nd time...)

Love,
Ellen
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Rad
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 17, 2011, 01:04 PM »

Hi Ellen,
 
Just the natural archetypes within all of consciousness that are symbolized by the natural zodiac.

God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 18, 2011, 07:12 AM »

Thank you, Rad.....
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Heidi
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 19, 2011, 03:03 PM »

Hi Rad and all, and thanks for this thread Serban; it has reminded me of a question I have in relation to Pluto and Uranus.

My question is about the phasal relationship between the Pluto/Uranus conjunctions which occurred in Virgo, and how they relate to the Mars/Pluto phases. My understanding is that the Mars/Pluto phase will determine how many prior lives a soul has been working on the entire dynamics symbolized by the chart, prior to this lifetime. I'm not entirely sure how to interpret the phasal relationships of planets other than Mars with Pluto when determining how many lives a soul has been working on that particular dynamic; for example the Pluto/Uranus conjunction. For an individual with the Pluto/Uranus in a balsamic conjunction, clearly the soul has been deconditioning for many many lives and is culminating an entire cycle. How then would that play out with a soul that has Mars in a new phase conjunction with Pluto? For example, Uranus at 13 degrees, Pluto at 15 degrees, and Mars at 17 degrees. The new phase Pluto/Mars would symbolize that the whole chart dynamics are entirely new, yet the Pluto/Uranus is balsamic. I'm assuming that the Pluto/Uranus would have played out in prior lives, yet if the whole chart dynamics as symbolized by the Mars/Pluto are entirely new; in what context is the Pluto/Uranus then interpreted?

I am also curious how this plays out the other way around, for example if the Pluto/Uranus conjunction is a new phase, yet the Mars/Pluto conjunction is balsamic. The Mars/Pluto will signify that this is the 8th and final primary life that the soul has been working on the entire dynamics of the chart. Yet, if the Pluto/Uranus conjunction is a new phase, what does this mean? Does it mean that the soul will be acting out the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in this life only (new phase), and that it was not active, and therefore, not to be interpreted, as part of prior lives?

I really hope that makes sense.

Blessings,
Heidi
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Rad
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 20, 2011, 07:11 AM »

Hi Heidi,

You are mixing apples and oranges. When JWG taught this about the Mars/Pluto relationship this was all about the personal evolution of the Soul. The relationship of Uranus and Pluto is a generational one. It does have a personal application in that the phase correlates to a variety of Uranian dynamics and archetypes that the Soul has been using for it's ongoing evolutionary purposes that is then linked or understood in the context of the core EA paradigm, and how that core paradigm has been manifesting relative to the phase of Mars and Pluto.

God Bless, Rad
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