Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: The Natural God  (Read 1625 times)
stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« on: Jun 17, 2009, 09:42 AM »

Hi all,

  I was hoping perhaps to have space here for a discussion on the concept of the Natural God as viewed through the teachings of JWG and the EA Paradigm.  Anyone who knows anything about this...please teach us.  Additionally, anyone who knows any of the posted/printed locations of this information, please let us know that, if possible.

Thank you to anyone who responds...

Blessings,
Stephen




From the current Message Board:

Quote from: Lesley June 14, 2009, 04:02:59 PM
  One of the most precious and profound teachings that Wolf has given is that of the imperfect Natural God.  The notion that the Natural God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving has helped…  …you will finally receive the healing your Soul needs, and that God wants to give you. I can share with you, from direct personal experience, that God is indeed loving, compassionate, forgiving.


Quote from: Lesley June 15, 2009, 11:14:36 AM
  The notion of the beautiful, wonderful, imperfect Natural God is a great idea for a new thread. God, as Creator of all, is the origin and source of the imperfection we personify and experience. Therefore, ultimately (Pisces/12th), there is nothing to forgive or be forgiven for. Judgment (a function of Saturn/10th house/Capricorn), especially unnecessary and excessive judgment, falls away very naturally when we find -- first through intellectual concept, then as direct experience -- that God Itself is an evolving force. Patriarchal religions (another function of Saturn/Capricorn/10th house) enforce the mistaken notion of a ‘perfect’ God that sits in judgment in a detached and punitive manner. The underlying human motive of power, control, and authority, is also reflected in that Capricorn archetype.

  All that happens or occurs through application of personal will always and only occurs within the broader context of Divine Will. Thus, we don’t need to be saved or redeemed by some ‘perfect’ god in order to find healing and peace; we need only to redeem and save our concept/definition of God, in order to find the healing and peace that are our birthright.

  In the eyes of God, I believe, no one’s mistakes are any worse than anyone else’s...it is all for the sake of learning, growth, and evolution. Even with the mistakes made, it is a really beautiful path we walk to ever more knowledge and direct experience of God.


From the Archived Message Board:

Quote from: Jeffrey on September 12, 2001 at 10:42:41
  …find our way back to Natural Law, the Natural God, to a consciousness that is rooted in the natural law of 'giving, sharing, and inclusion' versus the patriarchal consciousness rooted in the distortion of 'self interest and exclusion'.


Quote from: Jeffrey on Apr 23 2003 : 19:07:34
…we must remember that the real and natural God/ess NEVER IMPOSES ANYTHING ON ANYONE. free choice, individually and collectively is the natural law that God/ess has created for us.



Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #1 on: Jun 27, 2009, 02:54 PM »

Hi Stephen,

I think this is a subject needs to be realised in mediation...it is not possible to 'define' intellectually...
....what is sure is that the natural 'god' is anything but the 'patriarchal god images'...what is sure is that it is not 'out there' but 'within here'

...as Jesus said, the 'kingdom of god' is not here, and not there it is but WITHIN....

Order a few books from Self Realisation Fellowships, like 'Man's eternal quest' from Yogananda, or other books from him who had DIRECT experience and talks about it in a beautiful way....everything else than direct experience is a fiction at the end...the intellect can not behold the essence...it can help the soul to grasp some aspects of it and remove mis-concepts about it....but it can't be beheld on a purely intellectual way...
....it can be 'grasped' by the heart only, from within...

At least that's the only way I can explain it:-)...You will find Yogananda explaining it FAR BETTER!  Grin

hope this helps?

Blessings,
Lia
Logged
stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« Reply #2 on: Jun 28, 2009, 06:23 AM »

I think this is a subject needs to be realised in mediation...it is not possible to 'define' intellectually...
what is sure is that it is not 'out there' but 'within here'
...as Jesus said, the 'kingdom of god' is not here, and not there it is but WITHIN....

  Thanks so much Lia for providing direction for me on this.
  It feels so right to me in a profound way, when I sit and simply dwell on the idea of a Natural Imperfect God'dess.

Quote
Order a few books from Self Realisation Fellowships, like 'Man's eternal quest' from Yogananda, or other books from him who had DIRECT experience and talks about it in a beautiful way....everything else than direct experience is a fiction at the end...the intellect can not behold the essence...it can help the soul to grasp some aspects of it and remove mis-concepts about it....but it can't be beheld on a purely intellectual way... ....it can be 'grasped' by the heart only, from within...

  I think perhaps that I have an overdeveloped Neptune (fantasy) function, because in meditation all types of insights and ideas come to me, but I no longer know what is real and what is not (as in 'proper' and 'actionable') in terms of my own mind.  And, as you know, I am in the process of opening my heart, so I don't yet have clear 'leadings' from my heart.  In a way, I am in an all or nothing state, in alot of ways.  So...I seek outside teachings to help provide a structure (Saturn?) to what I am learning, and the concept of a Natural God'dess is quite simply yet another aspect of the EA Paradigm which is in and of itself entirely 'worth the tuition' so to speak.

  However, I can feel that my heart is saying:  follow this lead, follow this thread, follow this concept...

  So, I will take your advice, and ask for the truth of this from the Mother Herself while I am in mediation, and additionally get the book(s) detailing this concept from Yogananda, who, as you said, "had DIRECT experience and talks about it in a beautiful way."

  You stated this book:
    'Man's eternal quest' from Yogananda
  Are there other specific books of his that you could list?

I thank you from my (opening) heart,
Stephen
Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #3 on: Jun 28, 2009, 07:35 AM »

Hi Stephen,

Well, I would suggest to order the meditation lessons from either SRF (Self Realisation Fellowship) or the organisation called Ananda. (Both can be found on the net)
That will help you to concentrate and meditate properly...

Yes of course, neptune square the nodes points to the total confusion of not knowing what is real what isn't...just apply humility and patience (that's important with aq. s.node!! :-) very important... your soul was trying to go faster than it can emotionally actually take emotionally....so slow down, go step by step don't aim to have it 'all at once' it is not possible....your emotional body is very confused so just slow down give it time....6th house is all about little steps, correcting things one by one...its a PROCESS...pluto being there: the deepest emotional levels (including the deepest security levels) needs to be 'sorted out' ---sorting, analysing, finding the mistakes, discriminating, correcting is all about 6th house virgo stuff; so that is very important for you....along with finding the RIGHT METHODS of how to implement the overall improvements the soul intends...virgo 6th house is also about methods....lucifer there typically shows how wrong 'methods' were implemented in the past...6th house is ruled by merc. in the 3rd in gemini: the double affect, you go in two directions at the same time (which is symbolised/restated by the opposite double skipped steps) ....so again the intellect only HELPING don't put all importance on it....use it for what it is: a TOOL only...

I'd suggest to explore the two websites (they both offer many many books from Yogananda! I'd suggest to stay with him to begin with and study the meditation course (it is a correspondence course so anywhere on the planet can be done) and give yourself time for healing, restructuring your soul and sorting the inner issues out....

Yogananda's Gita (as Adina posted in the other thread) is offered by SRF....so if you are interested go for it......they also have some tapes and CDs recorded with Yogananda's own voice; which can be a profound effect for you (or anyone for that matter) for it carries the direct vibration of him via his voice 'overcoming time' ....the vibration 'kept alive' so to speak via the recording.....that can be very soothing and can have far more effect than one consciously 'knows'...creation itself is nothing else but vibration in reality....so havig  oneself exposed to the 'direct' vibration of such being like Yogananda in itself can clarify things in profound ways that are far above the person's intellectual understanding....

If you haven't read it start with the "Autobiography of a Yogi"...maybe that book is better ordered from Ananda organisation for they offer the original version while SRF has edited some of it....anyhow, just start somewhere and please GO SLOW...don't rush it...it aren't gonna happen overnight:-)...it took your soul a few thousand years to get itself into the ditch your soul is in, so don't expect to get it sorted 'all at once'.....it will happen but will happen only step by steps....if you can accept that it is a PROCESS meaning, little by little step by step is what you need than you understand the need to slow down----uranus in leo= absolute full spead ..that's the past...now it is about to slowing down and analysing, correcting, healing, so that the feeling body can take it in; venus conj. n.node....you were coming from the heart hastily and in the wrong way...so now it is time to do it differently= SLOW DOWN and INTEGRATE (leo n.node =integration! venus conj= integrate it into the FEELING body)...so stop the 'intellectualism' so to speak and improve the feelings integrate the methods that you will learn (6th house pluto) which will induce true humility (virgo pluto) in a loving way (leo n.node)

In my view Yogananda's deep love for the Divine can help you integrate and correct the confused feelings you have....for he is really passionate about Divine Mother and so his divine passion can 'inspire' and 'teach' you (of course amongst many others) the right way to 'channel' your heart into that direction....

Bessings,

Lia



Logged
adina
Active Member
*
Posts: 234


« Reply #4 on: Jun 28, 2009, 02:39 PM »

Stephen,

I agree with Lia about meditation and the teachings of Yogananda. I'd like to add to what she said in relation to two things.  I have taken the three-year course from SRF, and I also have the book from Ananda. Although the lessons from SRF have been edited, they ARE the original lessons written by Yogananda himself. The lessons from Ananda were written by Kriyananda, and I found them quite helpful and a great addition to the SRF lessons. I wanted you to know the difference in case that was important to you. Amrita Foundation in Dallas, TX, has the ORIGINAL (as in unedited) lessons by Yogananda. I have the first 12 of those, and while there are small differences, my own opinion is that you can certainly benefit greatly by the SRF lessons. There's also a big difference in price, if that's an issue for you. I.e., The ones from SRF are MUCH less expensive. Also, the last I knew, Amrita was not yet offering Kriya initiation, but you can call or email Priscilla Walker AT Amrita and find out. She is a beautiful soul who has carried Master's work on in as pure a form as she can.  Her phone, address, and email are at the following site: www.amrita.com

In addition to all that, one of the simplest ways to realign with natural law is thru nature itself. All natural laws are, of course, contained withIN nature, so simply watching and absorbing nature can help you realign as well. Within that, Earth activist and Wiccan Starhawk is one of the foremost experts on the earth "religions" (i.e., nature-based) and has written some powerful books about the nature of power and authority, etc... i.e., MANMADE laws, that have distorted who we are, and on the other side, the natural laws. One of her best was Spiral Dance.

A couple of other authors are Riane Eisler, who wrote The Chalice and the Blade (among others), and Merlin Stone (female) who wrote When God Was a Woman.  Any and all of these can help you get started and/or add to your journey.

Many blessings on you as you embark on your journey, Stephen, and feel free to ask more questions here as you go. There are lots of people who can help.

Namaste
Adina
« Last Edit: Jun 28, 2009, 02:43 PM by adina » Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #5 on: Jun 28, 2009, 06:56 PM »

Hi again,

Thank you Adina, these are very good recommendations indeed!
Maybe I'd add one more on the subject: Monica Sjoo & Barbara Moor: The Great Cosmic Mother; The original 'religion' of the Earth.

By the way, I was referring to the Autobigraphy of a Yogi as to order it from Ananda for SRF has edited that book while Ananda to my knowledge use the original version. As for the lessons and everything else I totally agree...

I'd like to add: Adina has a WEALTH of knowledge on these subjects I would wholeheartedly recommend to follow up on her advices either for you Stephen or anyone else who may be interested in these subjects. She even knows the sources of beautiful musics that correlate to these subjects...I learned from her years ago where to find some of these which brought me much peace and joy...

Love and blessings,
Lia

Logged
adina
Active Member
*
Posts: 234


« Reply #6 on: Jun 28, 2009, 07:47 PM »

Hi Lia,

I agree that it's good to make the distinction between AY as published by SRF and published by Ananda. And goodness, then (at least IMHO) SRF's LESSONS are better (at least written originally by Master) instead of Kriyananda.

And Lia, OH my YES! on the Monica Sjoo books! I'm so glad you added those! This is way it's good to have a group of us working together! 

So, Stephen, I hope we haven't set your head to spinning!  LOL  Go with your intuition as to where to start and just know that whatever you DO read that is genuine will resonate with you, get you started, and keep helping you expande and develop your OWN intuition... your OWN knowledge.  These resources, too, are like the "good" and "pure" teachers: The only point the way home.

Good luck, and above all HAVE FUN! 

Blessings,
Adina
Logged
Steve
Admin
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 566


« Reply #7 on: Jun 28, 2009, 09:10 PM »

Hi Stephen

You probably already saw the writing about Joseph Smith I put up last week in the 2nd stage spiritual post.  I'd suggest reading it again from the perspective not of 2nd stage spiritual issues but from the perspective of natural God vs. patriarchal conditioned conceptions of God.

The essence of that perspective is God (male and female simultaneously) itself is an evolving force.  The very existence of evolution implies imperfection, for if God or we were perfect, what would we be evolving towards? And why would a perfect God create imperfect creations - what would be the point? (Granted, the answer to that is beyond knowing while in human form).

As others have said, the essence of the Natural God is the principles of giving, sharing, community, collective, tribe, mutual effort, the awareness that one can not advance one's self at the expense of others, that the whole unit must work together, working through their differences for mutual survival and advancement.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link - create too many weak links in that chain and ultimately the chain breaks and is useless.  This first requires the awareness to see that life is in fact a chain, with each of us a tiny link in the overall chain.  Thus the fallacy and danger of an ego that can believe it is separate and superior to portions of the totality.  

In ancient times leadership consisted of those who realized they had been called to SERVE the collective, not to advance themselves at the expense of others, when assuming roles of responsibility.  The books Adina and Lia suggested discuss ancient times when societies lived according to these principles.  And they were sophisticated societies, not the cave dwellers we have been led to believe.   That has been proven through archeological digs.  

I was introduced to this mindset through the paradigm of EA.  As the implications of all this began to sink in, I began to see that in essence I had been wearing glasses with tinted lenses all my life.  I had believed I'd been seeing reality as it was, but in actuality I'd been seeing a filtered reality, based on the cultural lenses/beliefs I'd accepted long ago.  Learning to see life in these new ways is like taking off glasses I discovered I'd been wearing all my life without ever being aware I had any on.

This is illustrated in those books through the observations of predominantly male archeologists, who on digging up the remains of ancient Goddess-centered cultures, determined that they had been patriarchal, violence-oriented, hierarchical cultures with male gods, even though there was not a shred of evidence of ANY of that - they just could not grasp the possibility of a paradigm so very different than what they had known as reality and the "inherent nature" of human beings.  They couldn't take those tinted glasses off, even in the face of direct evidence to the contrary.  Most of the paradigm breakthroughs were made by FEMALE archeologists, and many of them were ostracized and considered kooky for their efforts.  

All of that reflects  the UNnatural God, the conditioned ideas about God.  When all of that is stripped away, what is left is what lies beneath all of that - the natural God/dess, which needs no proof or beliefs because it simply Is what is, when one looks around without pre-existing filters, conditionings, and beliefs.  Its the expression of Life, the Natural Laws of Creation that God/Goddess used as the basis of creating all that is, in action - Natural Law, the Natural God/dess.

We may not always LIKE the way life actually works, especially due to our programming to the contrary, but it simply works that way.  All natural sciences, like undistorted astrology, tarot, i ching, all come up with basically the same results, because the systems are founded on observation and correlation of natural events and cycles with human behaviors, as experienced over thousands of years.  it simply is the way things actually work - that's why no proof is required.  All that's required is an open mind and the ability to discriminate whether one's pre-existing beliefs/theories are clouding our perceptions of what actually is - life plays out the same in the lives of human beings all over the planet, in all cultures, all religions, both genders.  When looked at without filters this becomes self-evident.  

As Jeffrey said many times, you don't need a religion to tell you it's wrong to put your baby out to play on the Autobahn - knowledge of the rightness and wrongness of things is simply inherent in all beings.  The problem is we have been so conditioned with patriarchal distorted beliefs that we doubt our own perceptions, and too often feel guilt and shame while doing what is simply natural and right for us to do in a given moment, when that violates various social/cultural taboos.  So the issue becomes whether one aligns self with Human Law or God/ddess's Law a/k/a Natural Law.
Steve
« Last Edit: Jun 28, 2009, 09:11 PM by Steve » Logged

stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« Reply #8 on: Jun 29, 2009, 03:13 PM »

Thank you thank you Everyone for this information.

I went ahead and ordered the Ananda version of the book yesterday, since I had read where JWG mentioned that the SRF edited the version that they sell, and he additionally stated that the unedited version was 'better.'

This gives me a good direction to travel as I work to resolve my skipped steps (a primary focus for me, right now, I am feeling!)

now it is about to slowing down and analysing, correcting, healing, so that the feeling body can take it in; venus conj. n.node....you were coming from the heart hastily and in the wrong way...so now it is time to do it differently= SLOW DOWN and INTEGRATE (leo n.node =integration! venus conj= integrate it into the FEELING body)...so stop the 'intellectualism' so to speak and improve the feelings integrate the methods that you will learn (6th house pluto) which will induce true humility (virgo pluto) in a loving way (leo n.node)

Thanks Lia for that hint...
I often go too too fast.  So, knowing when to maintain the (intellectual) effort, and when to be gentle to myself and respect the ('heart opening') process itself, is a lesson that I am still working on.  (And, of course you noticed!)

Thank you Adina,
I will move gracefully (and joyfully...?) along this path of study.  You have provided many more insights for me, and I thank you.

Thank you Steve,
Your careful and intelligent postings always hold my attention through several readings, and I come away with a clearer understanding upon each reading.  Thanks for taking your time and providing information to us beginners.

Blessings to All of You,
Stephen

Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #9 on: Jun 29, 2009, 04:13 PM »

Hi Stephen, 

I wanted to add one more thing! You are on ‘Ausie land ‘so it would be perhaps appropriate to start the discovery/recovery right there.....go to www.Kanyini.com website and if you can order the DVD!
It’s a documentary which is SOOO wonderful....

The PROOF about all what Steve is talking about above; i.e. natural consciousness/natural laws simply manifest through the human being and simply reflects the same ESSENCE anywhere on earth, in any culture at any time (as long as it is NOT DISTORTED by violently imposed BS) for it simply comes out of nature that we are a PART OF...we are not separate from nature we are but one expression of it......so natural law is simply (divinely) imprinted in us....

And this is why the ORIGINAL cultures always have the very same underlying natural laws...expressed differently yes but ESSENTIALLY they are/have been all the same anywhere on Earth ...

So one of the proofs is the aboriginal culture which is presented on this film by a wonderful soul, an aboriginal elder who talks from direct experience.....the aboriginal cultures have been totally isolated in Australia for at least some 40 000 years...and alas the PRINCIPLES that are reflected in their cultures are exactly the same in essence as in the books we mentioned above which relate to Europe/Middle East and the American continents' ancient mother cultures and they lived on as long as they were not violently conquered/ruined/dominated......like in Crete it lasted longer than in the continents around it due to it's relative isolaton and it has been extremely sophisticated...
Even today some of the things they knew on Crete the scientists simply havent't a clue how they did it....Just to mention a few things: they used airconditioning (Yes!) water and sewer etc. so lots of technological advances but to me the most important thing is reflected in something else: the remains of the Cretan people stunned scientists; they couldn’t understand the excellent HEALTH condition of these people...so guess what? They invented a story that for some mysterious reason ALL the Cretan people died young...yeah:-) all of them Grin Meaning the teeth and the bones they found in their burials are so apparently healthier than the surrounding continent's burials (which were already living under patriarchal laws in fear and distortion of course!)  So becasue they can't imagine how it is possible that these people were so so much healthier even at their transition time to death they convinced themselves they were not, rather they just died early....
Well, perhapsh it is very inconvenient to suppose that these people in about 6-5000 years ago may knew someting that we don't  Roll Eyes
So their solution is to believe in some overall gentic 'disease' that made all the Cretan people drop dead for no appearent reason around 30 or so.....And I am NOT joking! Really this is what they TEACH even today on Greek universities...if one goes as a tourist this is what the guides will say (of course next to the general BS that it was a 'kingdom' despite the obvious opposite reality of total equality of that society which is reflected in every picture etc.)

It is interesting to see how those tinted glasses that Steve talking about work in many direction....like interpretation of a simple facts...

Anyway, what I really wanted to say is about the film, Kanyini: in it’s own way it is a living testimony of natural law via an aboriginal elder talking about his culture, which is perhaps one of the oldest living culture on the planet...the values, the way of life, the underlying beliefs, the philosophy, the laws that they lived by along with it's spirituality is all reflected through this heart touchingly beautiful documentary...it is a story of one soul who has been stolen from it's natural people by patriarchy and the impact of that and what happened to him and his people....YET it is far FAR more than just that....it is a breath taking story of ALL the natural cultures/people as they interfaced patriarchy....there is a living soul who never experienced patriarchy before only in this very life time....his compassionate way of telling us his story can bring us all back to the feelings of our own story that is deep in our unconscious.....for his story is about Mother Earth and Her children....so really, it is a story of all of us in essence....what happens to a human being when natural law is violently replaced by patriarchal law....

Also, what Kanyini is about is what natural capricorn is; it demonstrates what natural social living once was...when interaction, living, belonging, responsibility for all that is alive, sharing and the natural ONENESS with all creation was a simple everyday reality (saturn/capricorn) that all shared.... of course it is also about what happens when the violent destruction arrives from the dominator cultures...
Yet the story is still hopeful and heart-warming for natural consciousness includes compassion, forgiveness, sharing and inclusion........
He says: "Why did you need to take the land and slaughter us, why didn‘t you ask? We would have shared!"

And he says it isn‘t late to start over and share now......this is the spirit this beautiful elder is talking in; he offers sharing and learning from each other together in the here and now....he declares us ALL to be ‘his family’ he says:"We have one mother only, this land the Earth and THAT makes us brothers and sisters....."

So despite the horrors that happened to him and his people he is opening his arms and his heart to us all offers sharing, mutual healing, learning and growing together...and that’s what natural law is about...

The amazing thing is that this culture reflects almost word to word the essence of what Wolf is teaching relative to natural law, and the essence of all the matriarchal/natural cultures that have been discovered all around the world...they were so far aparat, isolated from each other and yet they all came up with the same underlying truths....
 ...for that's what 'natural' means....it is self evident......like gravity is not dependent on beliefs nor which continent we are standing on ...it just is....

Anyhow, just thought this would be such a valuable piece for you and for anyone who may be interested...

Also, it can help to understand on a collective level where in essence the underlying confusions and PTSD is actually coming from for most human souls....for THAT‘S where it comes from and that‘s why...of course it is all different in the details but the essence is the same; we all are natural beings who have been at one point of our journey exposed to, harmed, displaced and violated by, then forced to accept and live within that which is unnatural and untruthful: patriarchal laws....

Healing from all that I think is the most important thing for this planet socially/collectively (capricorn) and for all of us individually (cancer) to ever again have a whole and complete emotional body.....and to have the chance that Mother Earth (as a physical expression of life giving Divine Mother) may recover from the harms that the distorted human activity done to Her....

Love and blessings,
Lia
Logged
stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« Reply #10 on: Jul 02, 2009, 09:34 AM »

Thank you Lia,

I will look into that DVD - it sounds truly interesting!

Thanks for the information (your posts are always interesting, informative, and a pleasure to read).

Blessings,
Stephen
Logged
stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« Reply #11 on: Jun 01, 2010, 11:40 AM »


Hi,

  I came across this, and felt led to post it.

Blessings,
Stephen


  "There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath had different names.  It is, however, pure and proceeds from God.  It is deep and inward, confined to no forms of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity.  In whomsoever this takes root and grows, of what nation soever, they become brethren in the best sense of the expression."
                             - John Woolman, 1746

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: