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« Reply #30 on: Jan 18, 2012, 09:42 PM »

Hi Jason
I plan to post too before the weekend
Thanks so much,
God Bless,

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« Reply #31 on: Jan 19, 2012, 12:38 AM »

Hello, all, I wanted to go ahead and try to follow through with the "why" questions Jason raised for me, regarding the trajectory of MJ's soul dynamics.

I also appreciated Jason's invitation to respond to his questions, as an exercise, in any way I'd like, so what I think will help me is to explain my instinctual understanding of the dynamics I see in the chart, and what I see as the "whys", as suggested by the astrological signals. Hopefully then, Jason, Rad, and any others will either confirm my instinctual understandings, or help me see the signals that refute it, etc.

My basic premise is that the karmic legacy represented by the Arian South Node (conjunct Lilith) in the 2nd house, as well as the basic archetypical energy of Mars itself (in Taurus, and the SN ruler) have been "troublesome" evolutionary experiences/archetypes for this soul, as identified during an intense review of its own evolutionary progress, relative to its current evolutionary stage (Pluto in Virgo in the 6th house).

During this intensive review phase, if we can assume that the soul has indeed discovered experiences/tendencies that might induce core guilt, then it would seem to me that we need to look no further than the South Node signatures to see a primary factor in this guilt-- at least, relative to the intentions of this lifetime. Ignoring for a moment the many positive facets of Mars/Aries, these SN signatures certainly suggest a past-life pattern of assertiveness, competitiveness, willfulness and materialistic self-interest that is very different from the pure-soul-too-good-for-this-world energy that MJ often tried to embody in his most recent life. Adding Lilith conjunct the Arian SN in House 2, this further adds hints that aggressiveness and predator experiences took place in sexual terms, along with a tendency to manipulation and hedonism. (At least as I normally work with Lilith's symbolism-- I am aware there are many different interpretations for all "three" Liliths, etc.)  

Now, if we also consider that MJ's soul has been going through the 3 stages of individuation, then it seems even more likely that these factors were causally present: when one is dealing with the great challenges of questioning and rebelling from the consensus (especially in our historical patriarchal past), then the courage, raw assertion, self-sufficiency and will power of Aries/Mars/Lilith can be great-- even necessary-- allies. Yet these energies can all be overdone, with disastrous results in personal relationships, intimacy, and the ability to truly hear another person's message or acknowledge its validity, etc. So, as I read this chart, it is the excesses of Mars/Aries/Lilith energy in this soul's own behavior-- particularly during its individuation process--- that serve as a primary cause of soul "guilt" going into incarnation.

Even beyond the signals we get from the SN, I really intuit that there is a strong tendency for the Virgo energy itself (where we find both Pluto, Sun, Juno and Ceres) to literally "judge" pure Martial energy with uneasiness, and therefore this whole Virgo frequency has a tendency to repress, sublimate, deny or project primal Mars power, which then so frequently leads to the essential sadomasochism associated with Virgo and its polarity, Pisces. So, again, I'm saying that I strongly sense that the soul's guilt revolves around its own perceived misuse of Mars and Lilith energy. Is this accurate, as others interpret the chart?

Now, Pluto's disseminating phasal relationship with Mars shows that there have been several lifetimes already spent "responding", as it were, to the initial self-judgement phase of the soul about its errors and excessses, and its subsequent desire for "purification" and atonement. It seems clear that in these subsequent incarnations, the soul has often tried to sublimate, deny or project outward these raw Mars/Aries/Lilith energies, trying to evolve instead towards the relationship-oriented, emotional and transformational energies symbolized by its NN Libra in the 8th House-- and frequently becoming a "victim" in the process.

This is where the past-life, described by Kristin and Rad, wherein MJ's soul experienced castration, betrayal and victimization by authority figures over a taboo issue, makes total sense to me, as part of a trajectory wherein the soul--still undergoing the individuated rebellion against the consensus-- incarnates "judging" its more primal, assertive, phallic, instinctual energies as "bad" and thus through denial and projection, knowingly or not, invites masochistic victimization by consensus society. (Might it not have been possible in this lifetime that some positive assertion of Mars/Aries energy might have either prevented or amelierated the blatant victimization of this castration/betrayal experience?) I also sense that we can see with the positions of Ceres and Juno in Virgo, conjunct Pluto, that these more relationship-oriented archetypical energies have been--using Jason's terminology-- recent preoccupations of the soul, and yet their sign position suggests that once again, masochistic elements underlie this soul's most recent experiences of both nurturing/mothering and partnership/intimacy.

So, as best as I interpret this, we have a soul whose difficulties with the insensitive, raw, sexual power of Aries/Mars/Lilith has resulted in compensatory, masochistic lifetimes of disavowal and emotional/sexual victimization, which in turn create more wounding and more guilt. These are the dynamics I see reflected in the chart leading to the intentions of this lifetime, and explain "why" MJ seem to need both to reclaim and assert a dynamic, fiery creative force and self-expressiveness (Pluto/Sun, venus/Mercury/Pallas in Leo) that is unrestriced or fettered in any way (even by his body), and yet at the same time try to remain deeply sensitive, "pure", androgynous/asexual, and non aggressive (Pisces-Virgo polarity). The soul knows it needs to fulfill not only its more sensitizing, spiritual, relationship-oriented goals represented by the NN and PPP, but also to heal the wound to the masculine, reclaim and express more of its personal, vital creative power, and break the cycle of sadomasochism.  

Whether MJ was able to do all this is open to interpretation, and my own take is that he tried to embody the two desired soul needs by creating two personas (one for the stage, and one "private", which was also, ironically, served up to the public) with which he then tried to find union (Juno and Pallas conjunct Pluto/Sun).  I sense that his very poignant expression of being a pure-soul-too-good-for-this-world is, ultimately, just another masochistic archetypal "role" favored by the Virgo-Pisces polarity, and not his deepest self, which also must own up to the power and aggression and sexuality reflected by the SN node, and which he channeled into his artistic work and artistic persona. Would this be accurate, as others see it?

I think that his soul wanted this challenge, and that this is "why" there was a soul agreement for his father to operate in such an archetypal "bad father" fashion, to activate the issues around the masculine principle, and hopefully serve as a spur for MJ to claim the positive power of the SN in saying a firm "no" to the negative power represented by the father. There seem to be so many reasons why souls chose their challenging experiences, but in this case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the excesses expressed by MJ's father in this life were not reflective of this soul's own behaviors during its individuation process, and the cause of the soul's initial core guilt. This archetypal challenge to heal and reclaim disowned patterns of masculine power may have happened, but it seems as if MJ still favored, and attracted, victimization experiences in this lifetime.

This is what I sense, focusing mostly on the SN/Mars challenges. I don't know whether this remotely anwers Jason's challenge to go "deeper" or not, but I have tried to show that I do have a sense of "why" this soul got to where it was in this incarnation, what some of its inner conflicts were, what it hoped to achieve, and where it may or may not have succeeded.  I've built upon what I posted earlier, but tried not to repeat too much of it.

Now, whether any of this is remotely on target, compared to what other experienced practitioners glean from this chart, is what I hope to discover.

Jason and Rad and anyone else, any comments, correction, feedback would be deeply and sincerely appreciated. Thanks again for this whole wonderful opportunity.

« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2012, 08:47 AM by Dylan Patrick » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: Jan 21, 2012, 06:31 PM »

Hello Group,

We've had quite a  bit of snow in Olympia and my house has been out of power/electricity for the past few days and still currently is out of power.  I just stopped into a cafe to use the wifi briefly and wanted to let y'all know I will have to postpone any writing until a later time.  I haven't been able to read recent posts and do not have a print out of the MJ chart to work on.  Once I have access to Internet and power again I will catch up on what people have been posting and I hope to post on this thread at a later time, probably after the next transition of topics regarding MJ.

Peace and love,
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« Reply #33 on: Jan 22, 2012, 08:20 AM »

Hi Jason, Rad and Group

Sorry but I am not able to post because my computer doesn’t function today. I have finished the analysis and needed only a couple of hours to complete the material’s organization and language revision, but I haven’t backup.
I will post as soon as I get it fixed, and will let you know if it takes long.
Thanks so much
God Bless
« Last Edit: Jan 22, 2012, 04:37 PM by mirta » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: Jan 24, 2012, 02:06 AM »


Core EA dynamics

3rd Stage Individuated

In seeking to understand the bottom line dynamics in the Soul of Michael Jackson, the SN of Pluto Capricorn Rx 11th (conj SN of Saturn, and both ruled by Saturn Sag 9th conj MC) describes past lifetimes of being a truly unique and gifted individual, a world citizen whose unique capacities and competencies had helped the consensus to evolve.  The majority of humans in the consensus state, 75%, have not yet become individualized.  They remain controlled by the dictates of man-made social and religious conditionings.  However, Michael is a truly unique androgynous Soul who has been of service to humankind for many lifetimes.  He had acted in a leadership position within matriarchal groups and cultures incarnating as a female (Vesta opp SNs of Pluto-Saturn and conj NNs of Ceres-Jupiter-Pluto-Saturn-Vesta).  There had been a necessity to re-live and repeat the transformational lessons of the retrograde SNs of Pluto-Saturn 11th by way of the principle of individuation which accelerated the ongoing evolution of his Soul.  His Lunar Nodes 2nd/8th form a Grand Cross with the SNs of Saturn-Pluto Cap 11th and the NNs of Saturn-Pluto-Jupiter-Vesta Cancer 5th.  This shows enormous reserves of power and determination from the past, but also a continuous pattern of developmental crisis, stress and resistance due to the fixed nature of these houses with the necessity to create new realities based on the cardinal energies.  With these SNs of Pluto-Saturn being ruled by Saturn Sag 9th conj MC, his Soul is evolving through Natural Laws which not only bring knowledge and expansion in wisdom and truth, but also adjustments (Virgo/Sag squ).  The SNs of Mars-Venus conj the North Node Libra 8th ruled by Venus Leo 6th conj Uranus, the SN of Chiron conj the South Node, and the NN of Chiron conj the North Node (forming part of the Grand Cross) indicates relationship stress originating from choices his Soul made in the past, and the karmic outcome of those choices reflected in his current life evolutionary lessons.  

With the NNs of Jupiter-Pluto-Saturn-Vesta Cancer 5th being ruled by Moon Pisces 1st (ruler Neptune Scorpio 8th;  opp Sun Virgo 6th) correlating to the water trinity of Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces, it is possible that Michael’s Soul has suffered delusions of grandeur via the separate self/ego, and this situation would require taking an evolutionary path of purification (Virgo) and metamorphosis (Scorpio) that would allow his Soul to evolve toward the 1st stage Spiritual where his ego would simply become part of the Ocean in its journey back to Source (Neptune balsamic conj Jupiter-North Node Libra 8th).  The challenge in this path is demonstrated by the Pluto polarity point Pisces 12th, and the spiritual path (wound) of Chiron Aquarius 12th (opp Uranus-Venus-Mercury Leo 6th).  A new evolutionary cycle was born giving him the opportunity to fulfill his Soul purpose of self-purification and self-improvement (Pluto Virgo 6th conj Amazone) through strengthening his self-worth (South Node 2nd), and developing his social consciousness upon the divine path of transformation  (North Node 8th).  

Accelerated transformation transpired in the current life through recreated experiences of trauma and judgment in the public spotlight (SN of Uranus conj Saturn-MC-Lucifer-SN of Vesta).  He himself had been abused as a child, and had (allegedly) become a child abuser.   The People -v- Jackson trial ended with Michael being found Not Guilty of allegations of child sexual abuse, however, it had cast a shroud of suspicion and doubt around him that never quite ended (Neptune balsamic conj Jupiter-North Node).  Ancient Saturnian lessons needed to be re-lived signified by SN of Saturn Rx 11th, ruler Saturn Sag 9th conj MC, accounting for feelings of intense alienation and rejection of his personal philosophy by society, resulting in trauma, crisis...and leading to self-analysis and rectification.  His idealized purpose of caring for the children came under public scrutiny, crashing through illusions that had been fixed in place for lifetimes (South Node of the Moon, Moon Pisces 1st).  

“Michael Jackson was a cheerleader for humanity and a force for coalescing compassion and
mobilizing global forces for change, philanthropy and social reform.  A global messenger,
Michael’s rise to stardom afforded him visibility and a worldwide platform from which to
broadcast his message. His boldness and artistry garnered attention and Michael knew
how to get attention. When he pulled enough people in and had everybody’s attention
—he emphatically delivered the message. It was cloaked in a form that everyone could
understand—the universal language of music.”
– B. Kaufmann

Pluto Virgo 6th

Michael’s Soul intention, as symbolized by Pluto Virgo 6th (ruled by Mercury Leo 6th and conj Sun-DC), had been to prepare to operate in society and in relationships as an equal and therefore to learn essential evolutionary lessons in discrimination, humility, personal purification, elimination of self-importance, and service to the whole.  He was learning how to separate actual reality from delusions or illusions, and to manifest an emotional/mental simplification in order to dissolve all old patterns that were preventing direct and conscious merging with the Source (PPP Pisces 12th, Moon Pisces 1st opp Sun).  His Soul intention was to fulfill his evolutionary work function in harmony with his bountiful natural capacities and gifts as directed by Source (Mars Taurus rules 2nd).  His popular music was credited with transforming the medium into an art form (Mars ruled by Venus Leo).  He is recognized as the most successful entertainer of all time by the Guinness World Records (Saturn conj MC, ruler Jupiter Libra conj North Node 8th).  The supreme effort and desire to achieve the ultimate ideal of perfection in his art brought advancement and self-improvement in an act of continual becoming of who he essentially was at a core level (SN Aries ruled by Mars Taurus 3rd).  In the posthumous movie, This Is It, those working with Michael mentioned how he worked extremely hard and very long hours to achieve perfection.  He would obsess over one note for a considerable amount of time until the musicians could play it to Michael’s high expectations (same with the dancers and singers).  He had exteriorized his inner genius into a creative self-expression that was truly exceptional and inimitable (Leo).  His career blossomed through amazing qualities of passion, vitality (Aries), strength, determination (Taurus), precision, meticulousness (Virgo), love, beauty (Libra), and a gentle spirit (Pisces).  

Sadomasochism and Escapism     The dynamics of sadomasochism correlated to having been abused by his father Joseph who had uncompromisingly shaped and molded the identity of Michael (and his brothers) into an image of showbiz success (Cancer rules 5th;  MC conj Saturn-Lucifer-SNs Uranus-Vesta;  Vesta Cancer 5th;  6th house ruled by the Sun).  His parents’ love was conditional in nature.  They had failed in providing the psychological security that Michael needed.  Michael’s emotional security and survival depended upon meeting the parents’ expectations, therefore he learned how to hide his emotions and needs in order to win his parents’ love.  (SN Aries 2nd, SN of Saturn 11th, Saturn/Sag conj MC, NN Saturn 5th).  Joe Jackson having treated his family in a sadistic way with notions of perfectionism that were almost impossible to meet, contributed to Michael’s obsession to seek physical perfection because he had internalized the message, “I’m never good enough” (Pluto opp Asc, Sun opp Moon, Virgo/Aries inconj, Sun rules 6th).  Michael’s history of childhood trauma brought on a fracturing of the self.  He had been essentially frightened, frustrated, insecure, emotionally deprived and full of omnipotent rage (SN 2nd ruled by Mars).  Not being comfortable in his own skin (literally) manifested the skin disease known as Vitiligo that changes skin tone.  He had created a phantasmagorical public image to protect and shield his inner self (Moon Pisces 1st ruled by Neptune Scorpio 8th, Saturn t-square Moon-Ceres) while retreating to a world of introspection where he created the alter ego of Peter Pan, a dreamy childlike fantasy to escape away from a harsh reality (Moon sesqu Neptune).
Crisis    All crises are transitions between two states of consciousness:  imbalance and stability.  Michael needed frequent expressions of independence (Sun/Leo ruling 6th house) so that he could have free reign in his creative work.  Michael’s free will had been thwarted by his father at an early age, blocking his kundalini energy (Pallas Leo 6th) and spiritual attunement (Chiron 12th).  So that Michael could grow into a spiritual being through a process of inner metamorphosis, he needed to come to terms with the role of service to others, transforming the egocentric, selfish, deluded patterns from the past (SN Aries, Mars ruled by Venus Leo 6th).  This experience had been necessary in order to induce the evolutionary lesson of humility by taking instructions from another individual in order to learn humility and to dissolve the personal crises that his Soul had created.  

Health issues    Michael’s Soul created illnesses as a way to impress upon himself the need for healing and adjustment (SN Aries ruled by Mars, Aries/Virgo inconjunct).  He had been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder which made him vulnerable in self-esteem (SN Aries 2nd) and very sensitive to injury from criticism or defeat (Pluto Virgo 6th).  A psychological assessment carried out by Stephanie Brunner revealed that Michael had suffered from the following disorders, etiologies and symptoms:

•  Major Depressive Disorder
•  Drug Abuse (addicted or reliant on oxycontin, propofol short-acting hypnotic agent, prescription medications, psychotropics, anti-depressants)
•  Narcissistic Personality Disorder (a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy… often preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love…self-esteem invariably very fragile…may fish for compliments, often with great charm)
•  Body Dysmorphic Disorder (preoccupation with the shape, size or some other aspect of the nose, eyelids, eyebrows… lips, teeth, jaw, chin, cheeks, or head.  BDD is somewhat akin to a rabbit in pain:  the cry is so high-pitched that no one can hear the psychological pain and unconscious conflict being expressed.)
•  Skin condition, Vitiligo (change of colour of his skin)
•  Sleep Disorder due to Insomnia Type
•  Anorexia Nervosa
•  Victim of Child Abuse
•  Effect of Fame
•  Legal Problems

Mercury Leo Rx (ruler of Pluto)     Mercury correlates to the throat chakra, healing and service to others.  Taurus/2nd correlates to singing.  Mercury, ruler of Pluto and the 6th house, in retrograde condition, reflected an individuation process to re-live or repeat the dynamics of his mind and intellect in order to expand ideas of himself in relation to his environment (South Node 2nd, Mercury squ Mars, Mercury opp Chiron, SN of Chiron conj South Node).  The final dispositor of the chart is Mercury Leo 6th.  The 6th house containing 6 planets and 2 major asteroids is highly emphasized.  Mercury sextiles Neptune 6th/8th (respective rulers of Pluto-PPP).  Mercury exactly sextiles Asteroid Magdalena (conj North Node) 6th/8th, powerful symbol of divine service.  Mercury sextiles Jupiter 6th/8th, a global messenger.  Michael’s amazing lyrical talents had addressed social issues for liberation, freedom and equality:

“They Don’t Care About Us”
– addressing mistreatment by authority
“Black or White” – advancing racial equality
“We are the World” – Supergroup USA for Africa
“Heal the World” – sung by a collage of Earth’s children of all races and ethnic origins
“Earth Song” – environmental anthem
“Don’t Stop Till You Get Enough” – concept of ‘the Force’ that permeates creation
“Cry” – mission to change the world

“There are those rare visionaries who come along, maybe a few every millennia:  the Bodhisattvas
of the world. They are usually empaths who begin in childhood to literally feel the pain of the
world and make vows to the cosmos early in life to change or improve it. They go about
spreading awareness and mobilizing forces for change in order to make the world a
better place. Counted among them are: Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Mother
Theresa, John Lennon, Lady Diana Spencer, His Holiness the Dalai Lama,
Mattie Stepanek, Nelson Mandela, and a little Moonwalker.”

– B.K.

Pluto polarity point Pisces 12th

Through the PPP Pisces 12th Michael’s Soul sought to dissolve all old mental, emotional and spiritual patterns that were preventing direct and conscious merging with Source.  His feelings of absolute aloneness throughout his life were meant to guide his Soul to the realization that only a relationship with the Divine could fill the existential void.  Therefore the current life intentions for his Soul brought forgiveness, tolerance and unconditional love for self and others.  The PPP induced the transition from deductive to inductive reasoning, thereby allowing him to arrive at a clearer understanding of his own self-concept and of life in general.  He often said it was intuitive energy, Force, or God who wrote his lyrics, performed and worked through him. He denied his own genius saying that his creativity and power did not come from him but through him (PPP, SN of Neptune Aquarius 11th, Mars squ Chiron 12th, NN of Neptune Leo 6th conj Uranus, NN of Mercury conj Pluto Virgo 6th).  

South Node Aries 2nd Rx

Michael’s South Node Aries 2nd reveals how his Soul’s evolutionary intentions had been actualized and consciously developed in the past.  In order to induce the evolutionary lesson of humility, service and self-improvement, in past lives Michael had closeted and insulated himself from the outside world in order to guard himself from external harm.  His Soul desires were internalized and geared toward self-protection and self-sustainment due to the pressure to survive.  He had lived an internal sadomasochistic psychology with inner messages of intense self-criticism, focus on perceived faults, weaknesses and imperfections.  He desired to stay at the bottom of the well in order to feel secure.  His SN of Mars conj the North Node correlated to a Soul desire to jump out of the well, to instinctively merge with others, and to force his Soul to evolve because of the limitations that had blocked him from evolving in the past.  Past life incapacity to jump out of the well deprived him of a human necessity:  the need for human intimacy.  In the current life he had lived in a insulated bubble surrounded by millions of people, but had been starved of human interaction, the giving and receiving of love, basic to his physical, mental and emotional well-being.  The old patterns of guarding his body could also account for the skin disease that he had contracted.  The inner urge for survival over many lifetimes resulted in becoming fixed and trapped into life circumstances that were geared for endurance at the expense of other aspects of his nature, such as relating to others.  His frustrated physical needs were sublimated into the spiritual aspirations of his PPP (widely conj Chiron).  

South Node Ruler Taurus 3rd

Michael’s Soul instinct for self-preservation was facilitated by a conscious and intelligent adaption to the environment through the collection of information, facts and data.  His past life identities had been intellectually curious and endeavoured to gather information, especially technical knowledge, and experience about the world, with a continuous intake of new information replacing the old.  Michael tended toward independence and a need for space so that he could express his will in an unrestrained manner.  Any restrictions of his desire nature to freely express his will in a state of continual becoming would cause frustration and mental distress.  It was imperative that he follow his impulsive nature so that he could discover his desires and then be able to act upon them.  Mars t-squ Venus-Uranus-Mercury and Chiron correlated to critical mental health issues:  sadomasochistic messages being internalized as persecutory (6th);  an overload of data (3rd) unable to be processed (6th);  and profound disillusionment and meaninglessness due to the fundamental limitations of the mind (12th).  The challenge had been to discern illusion from what is real.  Positively, this t-square translated into Michael being the “messenger” with a gift of natural fluidity in singing/writing/lyricism/dancing.
The South Node ruled by Mars Taurus 3rd – 3rd house ruled by Venus Leo 6th – describes a karmic signature of a past life relationship with a sibling.  The relationship had been extremely unbalanced and had attracted severe criticism, traumatizing and scarring Michael’s Soul with intense guilt and the need for forgiveness of self and his sibling (NN of Chiron conj North Node, SN of Chiron conj South Node).  The SNs of Venus-Mars Libra 8th conj the North Node Libra 8th.  This relationship had started and ended suddenly (Venus conj Uranus, Venus opp Chiron Aquarius 12th) and had left its mark.  With Venus in a balsamic relationship with Pluto, this karmic signature from the past had been resolving and culminating in the current life.  Mars inconj the North Node describes the necessity to learn humility in the face of ongoing crisis in terms of aligning his personal will with a higher will by stepping into social consciousness (8th).  Mars inconj Saturn/MC demanded lessons in humility in the face of public scrutiny.  His Soul intention, therefore, to atone and purify was fulfilled by way of transformation through personal crisis.

North Node Libra 8th

How the Soul consciously developed, or actualized, the evolutionary intentions for the life symbolized by the PPP.  Michael’s Soul desire had been to consciously unite with powerful activities, people and symbols that would take him to higher levels of expression beyond the limitations that had been preventing growth.  On-going lessons in self-reliance continued to occur.  He was learning how to merge himself and his resources with others so as to balance and harmonize his needs with the needs of others and to create something greater between the two.  Through penetrating to the core of his own and others’ psychology, he could transmute limitations and become aware of his and others’ psychology.  His need for independence was being balanced with his need to be in relationship with others.  Absolute aloneness had brought him closer to his relationship with Source, balancing his need to be safe within the well of his own making with the bigger picture of life.  The North Node opened him up to the natural law of giving, sharing and inclusion.  He had been learning how to objectively listen to others in order to know what to give them.  He attracted significant others who confronted him to open up and embrace life.  

His Soul had been a group-of-one (SN of Pluto 11th, SN Aries ruled by Mars), and through this evolutionary development had experienced a regeneration and renaissance that transformed him into a social individual, in closer contact with others.  The concentration on self changed into learning how to co-operate with others.  His independent spirit was channeled into human relationships, and his passion expanded into love.  The aggressiveness of the past gave way to beauty, gentleness, peace, balance and clear reasoning.  In response to social crisis, Michael responded by donating his services as a technician and artist (Venus 6th) to projects such as benefits, concerts, charities, orphanages, donating proceeds and paying homage to hungry children (North Node Libra 8th, ruler Venus Leo 6th).  He was moving into the social world by providing his services, thereby becoming a contributor to the productivity and growth of the whole, while bringing about metamorphosis and self-improvement on a personal level.  Since he had a fear of criticism, he made sure to be conscientious, precise and meticulous in all that he did.  He had expressed on many occasions his faith in God.  He was letting go and leaving room for God (North Node conj NN of Chiron).  

North Node Ruler Venus Leo 6th

Another lesson that Michael was learning in this life was that of self-love (Venus Leo 6th).  With Virgo on the 7th house cusp, he attracted (Venus) basically two types of people:  those who were (1) critical of him (the inner reflecting the outer), examples being his father and the media;  and (2) those who would praise him such as his fans and his children (Venus Leo, NN of Venus 5th).  His internal dialogue for many past lives had been based on a sadomasochistic pathology, self-critical, fault-finding, undeserving of love, with inner messages of deserving pain, punishment, crisis, humiliation and denial.  Why?

These self-critical messages can be traced to his childhood in the current life, and also to the distant karmic past (Mars 3rd ruled by Venus Leo 6th, SN Venus Libra 8th) when he had experienced severe imbalances and inequalities in intimate relationships, teacher/student relationships, and with people in his daily environment, such as siblings.  There had been problems in the areas of communication, listening, duplicity, lies, deception, self-delusion, passive-aggressive behaviour, secrecy, betrayal, abandonment, dissolution, and loss (Neptune conj SN of Mars 8th, SN of Mercury squ NN of Mars).  It is probable that in some relationships he suffered or inflicted physical and/or verbal abuse.  The roles of sadist and masochist had interchanged, with the dynamics of dominance and submission operating simultaneously within Michael’s consciousness (Sun opp Moon, t-squ Moon-Saturn-Ceres).  The repeating crises eventually lead to a limit (Pluto), when he would totally exhaust the limiting pattern (SNs of Venus-Mars balsamic conj North Node Libra 8th), start to open his heart (NN of Venus Leo 5th), and work towards being of service to others.  The emptiness or existential void within his Soul over many lifetimes manifested outwardly as needing many other people in his life to “fill him up,” to give him what he felt was lacking.  

"I am going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie
to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame, and I have wanted it,
I have wanted it because I wanted to be loved. That's all. That's the real truth. I wanted people to
love me, truly love me, because I never really felt loved. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if
I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be loved because I think
it is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes
and say it."

– M.J.

Michael’s SNs of Mars-Venus conj the North Node Libra (ruled by Venus Leo 6th) correlates to a Soul desire to finally rise up out of the well, to spontaneously follow instincts, develop sexual magnetism, merge with others, and force his Soul to evolve because of the limitations that had blocked him from evolving in past lives.  He broke through the limitations he had created by attracting significant others who would act as catalysts to his transformation.  He co-created his own destiny and connected it to love through the strength of his free will.  He opened up to new ways of relating to others, checked the expression of his narcissistic will, learned how to listen and balance his needs with others.  In this way, he was learning how to restore balance and equality to his relationships that allowed him to express his intimate self on the stage (SNs of Mars-Venus-Natural Lilith conj North Node Libra 8th). 

Chiron Aquarius 12th    Chiron Aquarius 12th Rx represented one of the deepest wounds Michael had to face.  This problem dealt with the relentless memories of past life karma that had yet to be transfigured into a new cycle.  It affected his sleep patterns and his actions because something in the past had not been brought to a natural conclusion.  With the SN of Chiron conj the South Node, and the NN of Chiron conj the North Node, this wound had been around for countless lifetimes.  There had been a necessity to finally transfigure and liberate himself from this wound.  His Chiron retrograde was magnetic and could draw in healing powers through Source energy.  Chiron Aquarius 12th Rx, ruled by Uranus Leo 6th, meant that Michael's spirituality had been frustrated until a way of surrender and letting go could be expressed.  Resistance had impacted his mental health causing him to bury the anger/violence/wounds sustained through sadomasochistic relationships deep within the subconscious (Chiron opp Uranus, Mars squ Uranus).  He had been a group-of-one within the larger picture, keeping his distance, detaching from most people, living in seclusion and secrecy, until his liberation could come about through carrying out the spiritual aspirations of his PPP (Chiron sextile Saturn-MC).  With the NN of Chiron conj the North Node, this wound (and also healing energy) would be carried over into future lives.  Michael’s Mystic Rectangle (Chiron 12th – BML-South Node 2nd – Venus-Pallas-Mercury 6th – Jupiter-North Node 8th) meant an important step in personal growth and spiritual development.  The tensions that arose in his life did not go away, but were sublimated toward the completion of a significant life-task.  

Vesta – skipped steps (Vesta Cancer 5th t-squ Lunar Nodes with the resolution node being the South Node 2nd).   Michael’s Vesta skipped steps refer to unresolved issues that had impacted upon the formation of his self-image.  An alternative explanation of his regression into boyhood can be interpreted in light of his Vesta skipped steps.  It is possible that there had been unresolved gender issues, such as a recent gender switch resulting in a strong identification with the opposite gender.  He had been born into a family that had struggled to survive (2nd).  His childhood had been torn away due to the pressure to shine as a child star.  His creativity carried with it a core insecurity (Cancer 5th) because his emotional needs had not been met as a child.  By pulling his energies back from others and working in solitude (2nd) he had been able to focus on and supply his inner needs thus bringing about self-renewal.  He recovered his self-esteem and will power through integrating the power of the self (Aries) with the power to bring the visions of his art to life (5th) so as to perfect his sacred work.  

Michael’s spiritual commitment to the children included his own children whom he was exceptionally devoted to.  He created his own fantasy retreat, Neverland, and his emotional self-reliance was apparent as he explored the second childhood that he had missed out on.  As a creative genius, Michael was an eagle in flight, bringing forth the intensity and discipline of the SNs of Pluto-Saturn, and expressing his unique individuality in beautiful harmony.  His music and love of children were intertwined, both being aspects of his creativity (5th).  He did everything in his power to protect and care for the children of the world.  In turn, the children offered him a sense of security as he nurtured them as a mother would, reflected in the matriarchy of the past.  The difficulty had been lack of understanding and trust (Jupiter) by the consensus group – his uniqueness misunderstood – as it accused him of sexual misconduct, while the individuated group admired his child-like innocence.  Having the Moon in Pisces, Michael had been a friend to the children offering them unconditional love, but most people on earth did not understand his brand of Neptunian love.   

We Are The World (co-written by Michael Jackson)

« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2012, 03:45 AM by Linda » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: Jan 24, 2012, 01:29 PM »

Hi Jason, Rad and Group,

Michael Jackson
Pluto in 6th house in Virgo, SN in 2nd house in Aries; PPP in 12th house Pisces conjunct Dionysus, NN in 8th house Libra
                                                         I saw him by seeing myself. I watched him when looking at me.
                                                                 Donysus as his own priest, about the god  
Dionysus was a god with multiple faces. Presenting himself always masked, he challenged humans to see him underneath his mask or starting from it. Dionysus has to teach humans “to see what it’s necessary to see”, what is evident underneath the disguise of the invisible.

This Soul is and has been learning lessons of self improvement, self reliance, humility, purification and self perfection.
Pluto’s ruler Mercury is in this same 6th house but in Leo, thus reflecting the intention to serve the All and develop humility but still carrying 5th house’s narcissistic orientation.
NN in Libra conjunct Neptune reflects clearly the transition the Soul is living or at least intending, promoting evolutionary lessons of humility and purification, learning what It is not and giving priority to the Other and the All. Instead of turning reality what the individual is and wants, the Soul is beginning to recognize Reality as well as the other’s reality.
Creative work and self-analysis are the way of learning these lessons. The purification process required elimination of patterns of egocentric self-identification and illusions of grandeur.    This elimination of memories of prior mistakes or incorrect actions imprinted in the soul and the individuated Unconscious (Uranus in 6th house in Leo) is promoted by a pattern of correction. However, some aspects of this correction pattern are not conscious, thus he was living an obsessive feeling of what should be, reflected in his obsessive intents of correcting his face, sometimes manifested in a destructive way, as with his nose or lupus.
The literalization and corporealization of his metamorphosis also suggest and incorrect definition of what should be corrected. In addition, the anorexia he was diagnosed can reflect an “addiction to
Compulsive focusing in these imperfections and lack can hinder realization and actualization of the Soul’s potential and capacities. But at the same time it seems to be a transitional phase in which the psyche, not bearing pain expulses it to the body as symptoms intended  to facilitate awareness and resolution dealing with them in the physical plane but in a symbolical way, as an interface to psychic elaboration and spiritual evolution.
Then, physical crises, illness, were intended to induce ego awareness of what needed transformation and discovering its deep causes by analysis. Therefore the importance of not seeing them only in a physical sense, (by himself, his healers and observers).
That profound sense of imperfection is partially based in the guilt deeply established in this Soul, and crises are continually created as a way to compensate its causes and sources, reflecting a need of punishment, self-sacrifice or lack of self-reliance, but also to induce self-analysis.
Understanding the body mind/relationship but also its link to spirit is at the same time instinctual and evolutionarily necessary. The Soul was not only trying to atone, but also to comprehend, getting a deeper meaning.
He was doing the passage from literality to a symbolic plane through his body issues; symbol depends on right brain, and it’s healing, especially when the Soul comes from much linear thinking affecting his body and self image.( (PPP, Moon and Ascendant in Pisces, NN conjunct Jupiter, Saturn’s ruler, and Neptune, Mercury RX in 6th house and ruler of 4th house).
Such an emphasis in Virgo/6th house, together with Libra NN and Vesta balsamic semisquare Pluto, gives a transitional flavor and meaning to this lifetime. The transition to a new emergent order, from which Dionysus conjunct PPP in Pisces is a harbinger, allows considering all his internal fractures and external surgeries and almost mutilations as symbolic.  Symbolic because of its complex constitution and expression of many psychic aspects, as well as expression of what can be seen on it, but also of the unknown, the invisible underneath the visible (Jung)

With SN in 2nd house in Aries the Soul has desired self reliance and self sufficiency, on an emotional and physical level, and has sought self assertion and individuality.
Courage and will to be different and innovative was sometimes actualized pushing the limits and creating crises with consensus society and is one of the causes of trauma (Mars t-square Venus Uranus and Chiron; Mars inconjunct Saturn; SN t-square Jupiter and Vesta, indeed a Grand Cross with SN Saturn and Pluto).
Independence and freedom were survival resources; in the individuated stage, identification with these survival resources was strong.
However, the Taurean resistance to the need to opening to new self- discovering experiences was one of the causes of identity crises that produced (in the past and the current lifetime) implosions that derived in cycles of torment and rage, compulsive attitudes and disorganized impulses.

This Soul had and has several problems with limits and limitations (that I will explore further in another paragraph). Here we can see a conflict between the 2nd house need of keeping in its own “well” limits, and a tendency to pushing limits; the resistance to overcome internal limitations led the Soul to projecting in others the cause of limitations and produced disorganized, impulsive actions, anger and even physical violence that created trauma to others and that is part of the guilt and trauma that the Soul carries. (Mars T-square Venus Uranus conjunct DML and Chiron in Aquarius; Mars inconjunct Saturn conjunct Lucifer in Sag (natural guilt) that are conjunct Uranus SN).Patriarchal violence over women is also possible (Mars inconjunct Lilith conjunct SN Mars and Venus in 8th house; Mars trine SN Saturn and Pluto in Cap).
Lack of sensitivity to the other, to the different, to the stranger is reflected in his SN in 2nd house, and its ruler Mars in Taurus in 3rd T-square Chiron and Uranus Venus (8th house ruler); The FP inconjunction to NN, Jupiter and Neptune in Libra reflects the emotional confrontations the Soul needed in order to induce social humility and purification).
In addition, Dionysus in Aquarius is opposite Pluto and its retrograde ruler and square SN ruler, both in 6th house.
Dionysus represents the figure of the other, the different, the upsetting, of who is out of the norm,  opposing the Theban king Pentheus, who represents the Greek consensus man who valorizes aristocratic behavior, reasoning and self-control;  that of course involved disdain for women –‘dominated by their emotions’ - and control over them, together with contempt for strangers, with different skin.
In this chart Dionysus symbolizes his prior lack of sensitivity to the other, as well as his current provocation of horror in the eyes and faces of who were unable to accept the difference. Dionysus returns to his natal Thebes found lack of understanding because of people’s impossibility of establishing a link between their identity and the different, and his presence and cult forced them to take a different look at themselves ; horror projected then on the faces of who wasn’t able to accept the other. Who strongly tried to hold on to identity ended falling in absolute alterity (?).
 Psyche in a Grand Cross opposite Mars, square Chiron and Venus suggests that he is throwing off prior lack of sensitivity to others as well as a blocked psychic awareness of the inability to relate, cause of his wounds, traumas and fractures in his identity now in crisis. (Psyche inconjunct 2nd house Aries SN )
In this lifetime , the Grand Trine Vesta and Moon sextile Ceres in Virgo in 7th conjunct NN Juno and Venus  reflects awareness of the other’s emotional needs and integrity, as well as empathy and communication and nurturing skills to children.

SN in Aries carries anger at anything or anyone who restricts freedom and independence in order to grow . The crucial lesson is learning to use anger in a constructive way in order to eliminate personal limitations and allowing Soul’s evolution. This anger emanating from within himself in relation to inner limitations as well as unresolved anger at the society,  was in the current lifetime manifested against himself, his own body, and even as suicide desire.
Although the Soul has clearly emerged from consensus and liberated from conditioning consensus patterns, he still needs to objectify internal patterns of conditioning and fracturing, because  there are still residues of lack of self-reliance that require that the Soul complete its process of self-objectification that trauma and skipped steps  hindered (Venus, ruler of SN ruler and SN Chiron, and  NN ruler T-square SN ruler, opposite Chiron and conjunct Uranus.). This lack in the inner relationship with himself is projected on his body and image. (Venus is also conjunct Pallas and Mercury RX, ruling Pluto and Sun as well as 6th and 4th houses).
However, he also had desire and courage to break free from such conditioning patterns and manifested the ability to use stress to create positive change and creative actualization. (SN Grand Trine Saturn and Uranus ,Venus, Pallas and Mercury in Leo).  
SN semisquare PP suggests the need, and desire, to pull away from past conditioning that hindered self reliance and to meeting the needs from within, as well as establishing ultimate meaning through an internal relationship with the Source. Disillusionment and awareness of deeper levels of reality, confronting and purging internal limitations, is necessary to it (PP and Moon ruler Neptune in Scorpio in 8th house conjunct NN and sesquiquadrate Moon).    

Self-identity was mostly  based on body, even a literality of body consciousness, that in this lifetime needs to be balanced with psychic awareness (  SN in 2nd house in Aries, ruler Mars in Taurus, Vesta skipped steps, NN in 8th house, Psyche in Scorpio)
The intense need of survival and self- sustainment in the physical plane together with the physical wounds (Chiron SN in Taurus in 2nd conjunct SN) created an attachment to the physical body, more even, a tendency to live experiences at a physical level sometimes materializing symbols, as well as some somatic literalization of psychic meanings.  
This is caused by the memories stored in his etheric body (basic and literal), and intensified by the split between body and mind caused by trauma (Chiron in Aquarius in 12th, T-square Mars in Taurus and opposition Mercury and Venus Uranus in 6th house)  
These wounds of course not only affected and kept stored in the etheric body but also in the emotional body and memory, and seriously damaged the individual’s unconscious body image      (Moon inconjunct Uranus in 6th house, semisquare Chiron SN, Chiron  sextile SN and inconjunct Vesta in Cancer).
Trauma and wounds are related to guilt because of the violence exerted on others or for pushing limits , but fundamentally the damage in the unconscious body image was caused by the violence and devaluation suffered by this Soul’s emotional and physical bodies.

As a woman the Soul was victim of violence and that is the cause of his current damaged anima. In a feminine body this Soul suffered traumatic patriarchal violence, may be individual and collective, sexual, physical and psychological (SN Chiron opposite Moon ruler Neptune in 8th house; Mars T-square Venus Uranus and Chiron; SN conjunct Chiron in Grand Cross with Lilith conjunct SN Mars and Venus in 8th, Saturn and Pluto SN in Cap in 11th and Vesta in Cancer in 5th).
This patriarchal violence was also manifested as the need to use the body as a resource for survival by means of prostitution with the consequence of bodily degradation and anima devaluation ( SN in 2nd, ruler in 3rd in Taurus; Lilith, Venus and Mars SN in 8th; Venus conjunct Uranus, Pallas, Mercury and DML in 6th house ).
All this produced in this Soul a serious anima damage , being his fractured unconscious  body image    - (Moon square Saturn conjunct SN Vesta and Lucifer, Moon FP inconjunct Venus,  Venus FP inconjunct Pluto and Saturn SN; Lilith in Libra conjunct South Venus opposite SN conjunct BML; square SN Saturn and Pluto, sextile Lucifer conjunct Saturn conjunct SN Vesta;  Venus conjunct Uranus in 6th house T-square Mars and Chiron in Aquarius ) - and his fractured self-identity, self- image  and skin problems  -(Vesta in Cancer  skipped steps, opposite SN Saturn and Pluto, Vesta inconjunct Saturn and Chiron) –
consequence of it.

PPP in 12th house Pisces conjunct Dionysus in Aquarius With PPP in Pisces the evolutionary intention is to simplify and dissolve old mental and emotional barriers to self-understanding. This requires tolerance for all the mistakes, imperfections and faults and consequent self-forgiveness;  that would change the way the Soul  hears and sees itself and other people and will allow to unconditional loving itself and others.
Only Love and relationship with the Divine will alleviate pain and reunite the fractured aspects of identity that are still hindering complete individuation and crossing the threshold to the spiritual evolutionary state.
Dionysus conjunct Chiron and PPP reflects the Soul’s intention to live the fractures as a way to resolve them in a superior order that is emerging. “Healing comes . . . by means of a consciousness split by dismembering” (James Hillman)(I am translating from Spanish translation)
Dionysus in 12th house in Aquarius shows the intention to “see” in a holistic and unitive way consequence of observation, objetivation and discrimination. After learning from Aquarius differentiation and trauma’s splitting the Soul is able to rescue its innocence without being naïve and to unite but aware of differences, as well as living ideals as high aspirations instead of idealizations and illusions.(Dionysus SN conjunct Jupiter and Neptune in 8th house Libra)
PPP also promotes elucidation of the individual’s relationship with other persons (also NN in Libra in 8th house), as well as awareness of priorities.
Through the Pisces sensitive experience that the Soul has done through the current egocentric structure, the PPP intention of reuniting mind, body and spirit will allow that this Virgo Soul manifest its true and sincere desire to serve the Creator and allow Him to use It as a channel of love.

I see in this soul’s manifestations and chart what psychoanalysis calls a narcissism disorder related to his anorexia, problems with his self-image, face image and unconscious body image.
I am not referring to a NPD as diagnosed according to DSM, but to psychoanalytic conception of it.  As I don’t know the accurate English terminology for what I mean, I need to add some psychological notes in order to explain myself and get EA validation/correction  to what I am saying.
Freud used the term narcissism to refer the constitution of the I, the ego. He named Primary narcissism the libido phase in which the infant doesn’t yet distinguish between himself as the mother, and takes himself as love object, thus a self erotic  and undifferentiated phase ( whose prototype is intrauterine life), without distinction between the exterior world and himself.
The I (ego) constitution by separation from the mother creates equilibrium in the libido, now directed to the objects is the Secondary narcissism. Lacan identified this narcissism (ego) formation with the Mirror Phase, in which the infant (circa 18 months old) recognizes his image in the mirror different from his mother’s: “That’s me!”   Here is seen the image’s relation to narcissism‘s constitution.
Narcissism disorders as seen by contemporary psychoanalysis are disorders in the process of separation from the mother, in which the child remains without safe I boundaries with her, and over- identified with her.  Anorexia, bulimia and borderline personalities are pathologies caused by narcissism disorders.
His diagnosed anorexia led me here. And in his chart this is first seen in his Pisces Moon and Ascendant opposite Virgo Pluto and Sun. Pisces Moon sesquisquare Neptune and inconjunct Uranus reflects the possibility of an absence of clear limits. In addition, with Neptune opposite SN his Virgo Soul shares in Pisces lack of boundaries, internalizing its psychic surrounding environment, although he may not be aware that what inhabits his interior space doesn’t belong to him.
Moon is in a defacto opposition to Pluto, through Ascendant and Sun. This reflects an evolutionary intention to produce a metamorphosis in the Soul’s emotions and self-image. But also the possibility of displaced emotions because of not having been nurtured in the way needed he needed.
 In addition  Moon is Vesta ruler and Vesta‘s skipped steps reflect that the Soul’s  self identity and self image has been flip flopping between establishing  individualistic and closed boundaries and limits , and opening to the other, sometimes  acknowledging the other’s individuality; but also merging without discrimination. Individual boundaries and limits were clouded. (NN in Libra in 8th house conjunct Neptune in Scorpio)
Moon opposition Ceres in 7th house reflects that the Soul projects onto others the  expectation of being nurtured in the way it needs, in this case the mother; at the same time his ego structure can receive the mother’s projections.  The opposition shows the need of throwing off dependencies in order to become emotionally nurtured and self-reliant. The projection and undifferentiation is also seen in Moon FQP sesquisquare Jupiter in Libra and Moon Gibbous sesquisquare Neptune and Moon inconjunct Venus.
With nurturing he also has internalized the projected intense emotional - and actualization - expectations of his mother (Ceres opposition Moon, Ceres ruled by Mercury in Leo,).
Saturn square Moon suggests that the mother could not have been an objective mediator between his needs and reality. Furthermore, his abusive father very probably failed (as frequently happens) in actualizing the paternal function of cutting the symbiotic bond between the infant and his mother. On the contrary, the mother’s child relationship becomes then too close as a defense mechanism, with the consequent psychic dysfunctions (Saturn conjunct Lucifer T-square Ceres and Moon, inconjunct Vesta and Mars).
He said that his mother was ‘perfect’.

In synastry, his mother’s Pluto is partile conjunction Vesta in his 5th house, reflecting an intimate prior relationship, or a son/daughter relationship. With her Vesta in his 5th house conjunct Venus Uranus and her SN of Vesta trine his SN Venus, Lilith and Mars in 8th house I see the possibility of she having been a vestal initiator for him. He is trying to reconnect with a Soul layer prior to the patriarchal damage to feminine and sexuality, but in an undifferentiated way.
Katherine’s Neptune conjunct his Pluto conjunct Sun, clouding his Soul limits and purpose, while her SN conjunct his Neptune in 8th house, suggests that this clouding could have happened in prior lives, and its sesquisquare his Moon confuses his egocentric purpose and reality.
In addition, there is a Composite Grand Cross embracing Neptune (trine SN) opposite Chiron, and squaring Saturn and Sun.
Mother’s Sun and Chiron are conjunct his Mars, suggesting that  he is acting upon his mother’s purpose and wounds together with his own desires, also because mother’s Taurus Chiron squares his Chiron in 12th house: together with past life contact there was an absorption of Mother’s wounds during gestation. Katherine gave up to her artistic desire because a black woman would never achieve it.
However, her Mars-Uranus is trine his Venus Uranus in a Grand Trine with Saturn, the relationship is healing his guilt and trauma splitting, or fracturing.

In Michael’s chart, Moon inconjunct Venus Uranus reflects the necessary objectification that crisis are promoting, mother has to be a love object, not confused with him.
Instead of repairing the fracture that trauma produced in his self identity, integrating the different aspects of his soul in his own ego structure, he was trying to complete it through internal symbiosis with his mother. (Vesta inconjunct Chiron in Aquarius, trine its ruler Moon in Pisces).
But individuation requires integration after having differentiated; that would be the next step, a necessary discernment to complete the Individuated state and make possible a conscious merging with the Source in the Spiritual state.

This can also be seen as self-cancelation, another form of self-sacrifice; and one of the causes is the guilt for the abortion pointed out by Kristin, for not having allowed a child to be, and for separating this fetus from her mother. In a way he could try to self-abort his individuality, while symbolically perpetuating the mother-child union.

Now the Soul needs to recover individual limits learning from the wounds that its “frog in the well” alienation created, transforming his distorted self image in a healthy expression, using its Arian courage to get rid form its delusions and impurities -  (SN conjunct SN Chiron and BML, Vesta skipped steps, resolution node SN in 2nd house Aries) - and from his addiction to perfection. Uranus devoured his children because they were imperfect. One of them, Kronos, castrated his father to stop him, to put limits. From Uranus genitals Aphrodite was born. The love he is seeking and already giving will be possible by acceptation of imperfection and limits, by forgiving himself and accepting the other, the differences (Dionysus in 12th house conjunct PPP in Pisces) .  
The Grand Trine between Saturn, Uranus conjunct Venus and SN conjunct BML reflects that the soul was already working on that, and the current kite with the NN in Libra in 8th house reflects the profound aspiration to resolve the Soul’s limits/ union/relationship problems that affected its relationships and the inner relationship damaged by trauma, projections and guilt.
Symbolic castration, an evolutionary step further physical, may also be a transition to a mature acceptation of psychological and reality limits that saturnine frustrations promote.

There are several indications of limits issues: SN Aries suggests that in former lives the Soul has tried to push limits established by others, by family, society and even by Natural Law but strongly keeping within its own security space and limits (SN Aries opposite Jupiter in Libra, ruler Mars in Taurus in 3rd inconjunct Saturn square Venus Uranus and Mercury) .
With PPP in 12th house Pisces the evolutionary intention is dissolution of limits regarding union with the Source, in an evolved extreme of the archetypal spectrum.
However, if emotionally undeveloped or with a distorted experience of limits, as seem to be with this Soul, it can manifest as absence of limits in an individual form, the other extreme of the archetype’s spectrum.
With NN conjunct Neptune, the PP, Ascendant and Moon’s ruler in Libra 8th house the mode of realizing that intention is overcoming limitations by understanding the causes of them, throwing off projections, reclaiming the alienated psychic aspects and creating safe ego boundaries in order to establish a safe and individuated narcissism that will allow the regenerative potential of wounds. (NN sextile Saturn and Venus Uranus in Leo conjunct Mercury and Pluto, trine Chiron in Aquarius in 12th)
Psyche in Scorpio in 9th house sextile Ceres may be a integrating and awareness factor, helping him learning to nurture himself from within, eliminating external dependencies and internalizing emotional self-reliance with the consequent metamorphosis of his self-image.  Until that, compulsive emotions like self rage and loathing resulted because of the feeling of powerless to change these emotional patterns, even suicide thoughts. ( Ceres opposite Mars in 3rd house;  Moon ruler Neptune in 8th house, Mars square ruler 8th house and Pluto’s ruler, SN Mars and Venus in 8th house, Neptune opposition SN) I wonder if he committed suicide in a former life, and I suspect that his insomnia could be related to it, fear of death.

Related to limits, the Soul also brings issues related to union/separation themes.  
While former ego structures have developed an excessively self-containing and alienated individuality, in this life the Soul needs merging with others and other powers in an inter-related way that requires an objective awareness of self, constructing an individuated self. (SN in 2nd house Aries, ruler Mars T- square Uranus and Chiron in Aquarius in 12th ;NN in 8th house in Libra, ruler Venus in Leo conjunct Uranus , trine Chiron and Dionysus, balsamic  conjunction SN Dionysus and NN Chiron in Libra in  8th house.)
 This inter-related and committed unions (or possibility of union) have been wounded, (Venus T-square), skipped (Vesta skipped steps) and clouded (Neptune opposition SN), and resulted in a lack of a subtle discernment of boundaries that is also part of the transitional Virgo archetype and seen here as part of the current intention with Virgo Sun conjunct Pluto and Juno and ruled by Venus in Leo, also NN ruler.
Lupus, another of his diseases also relates to his problems with union, self reliance and self limits. Autoimmune disease in which the organism attacks its own collagen tissue - part of the conjunctive (connective and supportive) tissue, it’s produced because the immune system doesn’t distinguish between external enemies and itself.
This  is also related to guilt (3rd house Mars inconjunct Jupiter in Libra in 8th house and Saturn; Saturn square Moon  and Virgo Ceres conjunct Mercury SN in 7th house, conjunct  Juno in 6th house), in particular to his sexual relationship with his sister and the pregnancy interruption by his father and her death, pointed out by Kristin and Rad.
But in all his diseases, surgeries and image changes we can see an intent of overcoming physical  and etherical’s body  literality  and entering in an symbolical body experience as a interface to the internal elaboration of pain and guilt in order to  attain self acceptation and metamorphosis.
With his external form changes he is giving a step to his Soul metamorphosis (PPP in 12th house Pisces conjunct Dionysus).

Thanks Jason for you research proposal. I like you embracing view, and appreciate the opportunity of enlarging mine.
I tried to keep within our firm grounds, but Dionysus (and also Psyche) resonated very frequently reading about him and looking at his chart.

 I appreciate any correction.
Thanks Rad for your continuous guidance, for making possible all this work, and this group.
God Bless

« Last Edit: Jan 25, 2012, 06:23 AM by mirta » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: Jan 25, 2012, 11:36 AM »

Hi Rad, Jason, and group

I am posting my thoughts on some aspects of Michael Jackson's main evolutionary axis ...

Hoping to read the others posts, and much thankful for any observations and feedback.

God Bless,


Michael Jackson
Third stage Individuated condition
Main Evolutionary axis

Pluto in the 6th House Virgo reveals a Soul that has been defined by desires to be of service to society and who has been actualizing itself through the work dynamic. The Soul has created an intense focus of self-analysis and discrimination in order to become a ‘better’ person, in order to be of service to others. Because the 6th House cusp is Leo, the Soul has had desires for creative self-actualization through the work and service orientation, and Pluto being in Virgo indicates the Soul has reached a point where it has began to feel empty, pointing to an exhaustion reached because of the work dynamic and an stagnation of this orientation. The 6th House ruler is the Sun, which is Virgo, balsamic conjunct Pluto, the Pluto/Sun ruler is Mercury, which is Rx in Leo 6th House, also Balsamic conjunct Pluto, and Mercury rules the 7th and 4th Houses. These symbols reflect being made to work as a child and the displacement of natural expectations of receiving love and positive feedback from the parents as a child, which have gone unmet, to working on a stage in order to receive such type of recognition, ie. becoming a vicarious extension of the parents or someone else’s reality and desires. The boy has been made to feel that he would only deserve love by meeting the parents (or other people’s) expectations:

"I am going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame, and I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I wanted to be loved. That's all. That's the real truth. I wanted people to love me, truly love me, because I never really felt loved. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be loved because I think it is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it."

The crises and the emptiness experienced by the Soul because of being in these subservient roles, impacting in his performance, have been manipulated in order to make him feel guilty whenever he would not meet the parents’ expectations, and to get him to work more in order to have those expectations met. They also reflect that the Soul has been acting out not only its own displaced emotions in this way, but at same time the desires of other people and his family, who have manipulated the development of the boy in order to make a living based on the boy’s capacities and work.

With the S.Node being in the 2nd House, Aries, the boy’s inherent resources and nature have been used in this way, and directed to fulfill the intentions and survival agendas of other people including the families of birth. This implies the life and the life force of the Soul being ‘owned’ by others- sometimes literally- being bought and sold: the S.Node ruler being in the 3rd House, Taurus, ruled by Venus, which is in Leo in the 6th House again.

Further, this implies a submission of the life force and the Soul’s instinctive nature which has been tamed, harnessed, and trained or made to perform according to the desires of the ‘owners’, while experiencing a fundamental alienation because of the changes and restrictions in the immediate environment, ie. confinement, in which he would chose to focus in the work and the learning of skills in order to survive. Thus, his Soul in those lifetimes has become valuable in a relative way because of the capacities and skills that the Soul has been able to learn in those limited contexts. The limitation of those contexts that the Soul created enforced the relative expansion of the intellectual, physical and creative capacities. The S.Node ruler being in the 3rd House, Taurus reflects that a relative expansion has been occurring through intellectual exploration, which, however, has been limited. The implied limitations have basis on the pre-existing orientation to work, meaning the new knowledge the Soul has desired has been specifically oriented to having instrumental application. The Soul has further desired to fill the inner emptiness by importing information and knowledge (thus, having 10,000 books at home). Because Pluto is in the 6th House Virgo, and the S.Node in the 2nd House Aries, trine Pluto, a compulsive gravitation has existed to knowledge forms which confirm the feelings and thoughts of being ‘wrong’ or less than perfect, feeding the self-analysis of critical nature.

The Soul has created these experiences in which it has been learning about self in indirect ways, by needing to embrace from types of information, knowledge, pedagogies, training programs, whose nature is determined by the requirements of somebody else’s business. And further, has been required to apply the own life force in ways that are totally subject to somebody else’s will. The submission has been induced through violence, captivity, application of torments, mutilations, and devices to limit the movement such as shackles, ropes … being treated “as an animal”, etc. There is an enormous amount of stored rage resulting from the submission (South Node Aries 2nd House, Mars square Pluto). This overall archetypical dynamic has been in place along many lifetimes in which different manifestations have existed of this rage, depending on the evolutionary condition of the Soul in those lifetimes. Along the 2nd Individuated, the Mars T-square Chiron 12th House Aquarius and the strong Leo energy within the 6th House-Uranus/Venus/Pallas/Mercury Rx, reflect violent rebellions of oppressed peoples (Pluto 6th House rules the 9th House, the south node of Pluto is in the 11th House, and Saturn is in the 9th House Sagittarius), and the crises resulting from these rebellions, in which many tines the pre-existing established order has been restored through violence (Mars squares Pluto within the Disseminating phase, Mars rules the South Node, which is in the 2nd House, relative to Pluto 6th House Virgo, Balsamic conjunct the Sun, ie. humiliation of personal will, experiencing the limits of personal power- the North Node is in the 8th House). The crises also would be induced because of the desires to give to society, to help society evolve beyond its limitations and become a better place, and to empower those which are oppressed. However, the intellectual understanding of the social dynamics of the societies was limited, and was fueled by rage.

Because the instinctual nature has been dominated or harnessed through early age training, and ongoing training along childhood, etc. the Soul experiences feelings of emptiness, which are compounded with feelings of impurity about self, and in relation to its sexual nature. With Mars being in the 3rd House Disseminating square to Pluto, the Soul has been having these feelings and thoughts of impurity along many lifetimes. Within the environments that the Soul has created for self, in which the Soul is fundamentally alienated from the life-order that has created for itself, self-knowledge is a mere by-product because the personal life is the last thing in the list of things to do. For this reason, the self-knowledge is very limited. Thus, the Soul has desired to create crises that would induce the potential for ongoing self-knowledge. This has occurred in past lifetimes through extreme confrontations and resulting extreme powerlessness and humiliation (North Node 8th House Libra, South Node is Aries, Mars is the focal point in the T-square with Chiron and Uranus, this Uranus being in the 6th House and Chiron in the 12th House Aquarius … the south node of Mars is conjunct the North Node).

Along the 3rd stage Individuated, the Soul has chosen to cooperate with the expectations of those dictating the work requirements and to apply the own highly developed capacities for which he already knows his superiority in relation to consensus, but which at same time have been mostly actualized in consensus productive terms, and only within those terms and the overall orientation and agendas created by those terms and requirements, has the Soul had the possibility to gain an indirect sense of self and a relative, diffuse and emerging ‘personal life’, very limited and still constrained within the life order created by a consensus rationality. Necessarily so, in some way, because the Soul lacks a clear self-image that would promote conscious actualization of personal directions (Moon 1st House is Pisces, the 4th House is Gemini, Mercury is Rx and is Balsamic conjunct to Pluto, Vesta squares the nodes and is Cancer in the 5th House). External orders are what the Soul is familiar with, and has needed to create a reality reflecting what he already knows and to expand the self-knowledge, self-exploration, in personal ways within those external realities, ie. society. Thus, he needed to live in a fairy tales palace for himself alone in order to fill and compensate the inner emptiness and recover the missing childhoods the Soul lacked, but that place was also invaded by the reality that the Soul chose to live within: the Soul desired to remain within those limited arrangements of life in order to be able to observe and know why it has needed to create this type of life, in order to progressively expand the personal dimensions from within that type of structure (Mars in Disseminating square to Pluto).  

Because the submission was a condition for personal survival, and because of the strong survival instinct of the Soul, he has chosen along a series of lifetimes within the 3rd stage Individuated to cooperate with the external demands, and to give to society based on his developed capacities. Thus, the Soul has been able to receive massive acclaim and to make a lot of money, which seems very valuable from the point of view of society, but has not served to fill the inner void at Soul level. The Soul has been fundamentally out-of-contact with its own inner reality beyond the self-criticism (which is also a way to create some type of self-relatedness). However, it has created a type of life in which it would have the chance to give to society in ways which not only address existing needs within society, but which also have become progressively personal, reflecting the sense of having something special to discover and actualize which is linked with the personal destiny.

Because his Soul has reached a form of settlement between the unresolved needs for self-exploration and the demands of consensus success-oriented management of his own life, the existing masochism is also based on guilt originating in the duplicity between how he feels within himself and how he presents himself within his work roles, sp. on stage, the image he creates for his fans, ie. becoming an ‘icon’, am empty image in which every detail has been thoroughly construed but for which there’s no support in the inner reality, except fantasy, both his own fantasy and the fantasy of the public or fans (Pluto polarity point in the 12th House, S.Node in the 8th House Libra, Moon in the 1st House Pisces; the guilt associated with this dynamic is further indicated by the Moon being square to Saturn, and the 10th House ruler being conjunct  the N.Node and sesquisquare the Moon).  

The atonement pattern has basis in the experiences of humiliation, powerlessness, etc., and further, there are other specific causes for the underlying desires to atone, and the guilt and shame. Within these causes, the Soul has created experiences of sexual abuse, and possibly sexual exploitation (S.Node Aries 2nd House, Mars Taurus 3rd House square Pluto, which is conjunct the Sun, and the Sun opposes the 1st House Moon, which trines Vesta in the 5th House Cancer, squaring the nodes). Further, these same symbols indicate sexual experiences in the context of family and siblings, which have been a source of unresolved guilt and shame. Vesta is square the nodes, indicating evolutionary skipped steps, based on a narcissistic response to the empty childhoods and experiences of sexual abuse as a child, or sexual experiences with family members which later caused shame and guilt (Vesta is 5th House Cancer, ruled by Moon in the 1st House, and square the Aries S.Node). Because the Sun is conjunct Pluto 6th House, in Virgo, and the ruler of the 5th House, the Moon, is in the Aries House, Vesta in the 5th House squaring the nodes indicates the potential for pregnancy resulting from some of these experiences with family members in past lifetimes, and subsequent death or abortion of the babies. These types of experience and the judgments originating thereof (Saturn in the 9th House is the focal point of the T-square with Ceres 7th House Virgo, and the Moon in the 1st House Pisces, and the focal point of a Yod with Mars and Vesta) intensify the guilt and desires for atonement which permeate personal relationships in general, and the general psychology of Michael Jackson. To me this seems to be the basis for the narcissistic compensation through the desires for massive acclaim of a constructed and manipulated fantasy self-image that conceals the guilt, shame, and emptiness, but leaves the Soul in a deeper void when outside the stage or when not directly engaged on work or creation (Pluto polarity point in the 12th House, N.Node in the 8th House Libra, ruled by Venus in the 6th House, Neptune Scorpio conjunct the N.Node). Saturn is Balsamic semisextile its own south node and the south node of Pluto, both in the 11th House, and forms an inconjunct to the north node of Pluto in the 5th House. These symbols reveal that along many lifetimes the Soul has gained a form of self-knowledge through the vehicle of crises, self-knowledge, which however, has been suppressed and avoided, as a result from prior desires to alienate from inner judgments based on introjected patriarchal judgments. And yet his Soul has created ongoing personal crises enforcing the need to integrate and resolve the nature of those inner judgments, in order to align consciousness with larger frames of reference and integrate the self-knowledge the Soul has of intuitive nature. Saturn is the ruler of the 11th House, and is square the Moon in the 1st House. These symbols indicate a fragmentation (11th House) within personality based on the nature of unresolved judgments creating intense inner doubt because of projections of manmade morals originating in these types of sexual experiences, creating mental crises and traumas which are unresolved and repressed, and that translate in loss of perspective, and dynamics of avoidance and denial, leading to intellectualization, relativization, and duplicity based on inner doubt which is not addressed/resolved.

The limitation and confinement along many lifetimes had created a very narrow band in which to cultivate self. The Soul has also desired to fill the inner emptiness, and to avoid these feelings of emptiness, impurity, and overall disconnectedness and fragmentation, by importing information and knowledge (thus, having 10,000 books at home). Because Pluto is in the 6th House Virgo, and the S.Node in the 2nd House Aries, trine Pluto, a compulsive gravitation has existed to knowledge forms which have confirmed the feelings of impurity and the desires to atone.

Michael Jackson was aware this current lifetime of the inner emptiness and unhappiness, and he devoted great efforts to promote the ‘cause of children’, but at same time compulsively needed to keep the track of the life he had created for himself, because of the fear of the unknown, the masochism, etc. The Pluto polarity point being in the 12th House, and the N.Node in the 8th House with its ruler in the 6th House, demanded a progressive acceptance of the inner emptiness, allowing to explore the inner world and to penetrate and heal the psychological dynamics and wounds of the Soul in a compassionate way. This necessarily had to occur through devoting increasing amounts of time to not work, to just being with himself, or with people (N.Node Libra) having the psychological and emotional capacity to give him what he needed, ie. acceptance, empowerment, and insights on his true nature beyond any work role.
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« Reply #37 on: Jan 25, 2012, 12:01 PM »

Hi Rad and all,

Here is my analysis of the bottom-line evolutionary dynamics of Michael’s chart. 

This is a Soul with a truly intense desire to purify, atone, and most especially to be of service (Pluto in Virgo/6th; 6th house stellium; Virgo stellium), a desire that the Soul has carried for many lifetimes (Pluto well into 6th).  However, in this lifetime it has reached a crucial junction relative to learning how to be of service.  On the one hand, the Soul has had a series of lifetimes in which it has done service in ways that emphasize its own specialness and uniqueness, and in this lifetime it is seeking to let those approaches go (Pluto balsamic conjunct Sun; Pluto and its ruler Mercury in Leo in balsamic conjunction; Venus/Uranus/Pallas/Mercury all in Leo and in balsamic phase to Pluto).  At the same time, the Soul is also beginning an entirely new cycle of committing deeply to being of service to others (Pluto new phase conjunct Juno, both in Virgo/6th; Pluto very early in Virgo), finding a way to invest itself in this fully, to have complete fidelity with this Soul mission and purpose; in effect, to “marry” (Juno) itself to its core intentions, without holding parts of itself back.  The Soul is, in some sense then, evolving from a kind of self-centered service, in which being seen to do good has been as important as the actual doing of good, to selfless service, where the focus is entirely on the action and not on how others perceive it.

The focus on self, it seems to me, has been absolutely necessary to this Soul because of profoundly traumatic experiences it has endured which had probably nearly beaten it down.  I recall Steve sharing with me that JWG said that sometimes Souls would be born with strong Leo or 5th house charts because of a need to strengthen themselves, sort of shore themselves up, after going through so much, and this possibility seems strong to me in this chart.  So for example the relatively recent series of royalty/nobility lifetimes identified by Cat, Rad, and Kristin would make sense given this Leo concentration and also as being a way that the Soul sought to restore some kind of sense of worth and pride again – even though, of course, in those lifetimes there would still have been crisis and trauma as already discussed – still there was some kind of shoring up and my sense is that the trauma in these lifetimes would have been less (in relative terms only) compared to further back in the Soul’s past, where it would have been reduced to truly just barely surviving and getting through.     

To speak more specifically of this Soul’s longer-term past, one of the most fundamental issues carried by this Soul is a deep wounding relative to being a strong and powerful female and/or being a man with a well-developed anima in many lifetimes and suffering for it.  The chart is loaded with signatures for this all over the karmic axis (Pluto conjunct Juno, Pallas, Amazone, in Virgo/6th; SN conjunct Black Moon Lilith in Aries/2nd opposite Jupiter and squaring Pluto/Saturn nodal axes; NN conjunct asteroid Lilith in 8th squaring Pluto/Saturn nodal axes; NN ruler Venus in 6th conjunct Dark Moon Lilith opposed Chiron and square Mars; note that NN and ruler have been active due to skipped steps).  For this reason there is a deep and intense focus on feminine power and how to actualize it, this is one of the most basic preoccupations of the Soul.

The Soul carrying such a powerful feminine at the very core of its being (Pluto conjunct Juno/Amazon/Pallas) was an obvious target in patriarchal times.  The result was that in multiple lifetimes the Soul was forced into situations where its very survival was on the line and it had to fight hard just to live (SN Aries/2nd).  The Soul was being constantly under attack and projected upon and told how monstrous it was by seemingly “good” hierophants and religious type leaders with actually dark and control-oriented motives and mob-like followings (Jupiter in Libra/8th conjunct Neptune in Scorpio/8th both opposite SN/Lilith).  The need to survive was so strong that everything became relative for the Soul (SN ruler Mars in 3rd) and it would take on any form, do whatever was necessary to make it, thus in some instances blend in (3rd) in other cases stand out (Aries), back and forth between these two situations, and in some cases this would have involved literally modifying and harming its own body (SN Chiron in Taurus/2nd conjunct SN/Lilith) – these lifetimes of course created extremely charged memory pools carried in the etheric body into the lifetime as Michael Jackson where the Soul continued to do this with its body – we can take a more empathic view recognizing the karmic past of this Soul to understand that for Jackson this represented a feeling that it was the only way he could survive and make it in the world.

The Soul in many of these further-back lifetimes was a true warrior, and would fight against the dominant societal forces.  It would take on the “monstrous” epithet in some of these situations, and would try to dress itself up as being “Bad” – but really this was a form of “drag” for this Soul, much as we can look at the person of Michael Jackson in his video “Bad” and see that he is basically performing his badness – one can really see he is not that bad and not that scary, even though in the video and the lyrics one can see that he really wants one to think he is “bad”.  Instead he is “butching up” in the face of fear.  With the lyrics, “just show your face in broad daylight” he seems to be speaking directly to the Souls represented in his 8th house past: 

Your Butt Is Mine
Gonna Take You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I'm Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Don't Shoot To Kill
Come On, Come On,
Lay It On Me All Right...

I'm Giving You
On Count Of Three
To Show Your Stuff
Or Let It Be . . .
I'm Telling You
Just Watch Your Mouth
I Know Your Game
What You're About

Well They Say The Sky's
The Limit
And To Me That's Really True
But My Friend You Have
Seen Nothing
Just Wait 'Til I Get Through . . .

Because I'm Bad, I'm Bad-
Come On
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I'm Bad, I'm Bad-
You Know It
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I'm Bad, I'm Bad-
Come On, You Know
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
Just To Tell You Once Again,
Who's Bad . . .

This butching up and fighter attitude probably also went too far in some cases for the Soul, and is a part of why the Soul does carry some deep guilt and atonement orientation in its psyche.  Sometimes the Soul may genuinely have become “monstrous” (Lilith) and taken that on in its total frustration and anger (Aries).  The song “Thriller” to me also seems like a recapitulation of these South Node themes.  Here are the lyrics:

It's close to midnight and something evil's lurking in the dark
Under the moonlight, you see a sight that almost stops your heart
You try to scream but terror takes the sound before you make it
You start to freeze as horror looks you right between the eyes
You're paralyzed

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
And no one's gonna save you from the beast about strike
You know it's thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight

You hear the door slam and realize there's nowhere left to run
You feel the cold hand and wonder if you'll ever see the sun
You close your eyes and hope that this is just imagination, girl!
But all the while you hear the creature creeping up behind
You're out of time

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
There ain't no second chance against the thing with forty eyes, girl
Thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight

Night creatures calling, the dead start to walk in their masquerade
There's no escaping the jaws of the alien this time
(They're open wide)
This is the end of your life

They're out to get you, there's demons closing in on every side
They will possess you unless you change that number on your dial
Now is the time for you and I to cuddle close together, yeah
All through the night I'll save you from the terror on the screen
I'll make you see

That this is thriller, thriller night
'Cause I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a
Killer, diller, chiller, thriller here tonight

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
Girl, I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, thriller, ow!

(I'm gonna thrill ya tonight)
Darkness falls across the land
The midnight hour is close at hand
Creatures crawl in search of blood
To terrorize y'alls neighborhood

I'm gonna thrill ya tonight, ooh baby
I'm gonna thrill ya tonight, oh darlin'
Thriller night, baby, ooh!

The foulest stench is in the air
The funk of forty thousand years
And grizzly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom

And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of the thriller

Of course this song is written relative to the mindset and the trends of the time and the words are in many cases conventional tropes (SN ruler Mars in 3rd/Taurus) – seduction, silly movies, having sex tonight and so on.  But there are also potent archetypal themes at play: in the video, Michael is both a monster and engaged in a fight (Aries) against monsters.  He becomes a werewolf, a creature intimately associated with Lilith who was always associated with wolves and said in some myths to have created werewolves: monstrous creatures that are feared by the mass culture because they cross lines and concretize the bestial and shadow forces in humans, but whose real evil is simply that they look scary – that is the central “crime” of most werewolves (SN Chiron in Taurus conjunct SN – distortions to the body).  At the same time, Michael also sings of being in a fight, alongside the “girl”, with dark forces of death, ghosts, “night creatures, the dead walking in their masquerade” (SN opposite Neptune in Scorpio).  The dark forces of “40,000 years” are closing in and sealing her doom.   It is also interesting to note that the geodetics of Michael’s Lilith and South Node (at 22 and 23 Aries) align exactly with the origin areas and the areas of the world most commonly associated with werewolf tales: Eastern Europe – Slovenia, Hungary, Poland, Macedonia, and Greece, where the word lycanthrope emerged.  In Hungary, too, the legend around werewolves is that they were children who were abused by their parents – as Michael indeed was.  (And an aside: he was born under a full moon after all!)  At any rate, the production is certainly a concretization of the past-life history this Soul knew of being considered monstrous when the real monsters were the ones doing the name-calling, and also a concretization of the Soul’s own relatively aggressive and self-contained response to this. 

In any case, the theme that comes out of this is frequent experiences of death or near-death at the hands of judgmental others.  In terms of specifics, situations of the Soul being formally shunned and isolated (Aries/2nd, Taurus) from societies; possibly being burned (Aries); and also being put in situations of starvation and hunger resulting from the isolation (Taurus, 2nd house) all present themselves as possibilities.  The hunger issue seems particularly likely given Michael’s repeated references in songs to hungry people and hungry children, his lead role in We are the World, and so on.  Additionally the Soul is likely to have had lifetimes born as an infant with some kind of “body defect” that was not acceptable to the ideology of beauty/form held in the tribe/culture where born, and was therefore “exposed” – left out in nature to die as an infant (SN Chiron 2nd/Taurus conjunct lunar SN 2nd/Aries, both opposite Jupiter, ruler of 10th, in Libra) – such lifetime(s) leaving a powerfully charged etheric memory about the need to look perfect to survive and driving some of the body-modification of the Soul in this lifetime.  Rad, could I ask you to confirm or disconfirm these various scenarios if possible?

In terms of evolutionary intentions, the deep Soul urge is towards release – release of control and relaxing the need to “get it right” and also the expectation that the Soul needs to figure all of this out (PPP in Pisces/12th).  Also to relax the sense of its basic aloneness and recognize that it is already connected to one and all – that it does not need to feel so utterly on its own and alone, and indeed needs to connect with others (Libra NN conjunct Jupiter), and then to allow itself to be a channel (Neptune) through which creative and innovative acts of service can be performed (NN ruler Venus in Leo conjunct Mercury/Pallas/Uranus/NN Neptune/NN Mercury).     

However, the Soul’s evolutionary progress has not been straightforward, in fact it has been delayed, due to a Soul dilemma which has been carried forward from many lifetimes relative to the issues of self-expression, creativity, sexuality, and the giving and receiving of love (skipped step Vesta in 5th/Cancer).  As alluded above, this is the story of a Soul coming to terms with its “specialness”, having created an entire curriculum around that for itself in part because of how beaten up it was becoming (Pluto conjunct Sun; Leo stellium including rulers of Pluto and NN; Aries SN) yet also needing now to place that back into its original purpose towards the service of others (Pluto/Sun/Juno in Virgo and Leo stellium all in 6th).  The Soul has had a deep craving to be seen and felt by others, to project itself into the world and have the world take notice (Sun/Leo/5th archetypes), to the point that now the Soul’s desire for this has actually been “holding up” its evolutionary progress. 

In the lifetime as Michael Jackson, this issue is very easy to see, because the Soul’s desperation for this manifested as bringing this need, and this “inner child” desire, right to the surface of the personality, such that this neediness for attention is what the world around him was often most aware of in Michael (5th house ruler, Moon in Pisces, conjunct ascendant; asteroid Narcissus in 10th house in grand trine with Venus/Uranus/Mercury/Pallas in Leo and SN in Aries).  What we can also see is that in this lifetime the impacts of this pursuit of specialness were taken very personally, and that the ego structure itself became developed directly in relation to the Soul’s own experience of seeking to be seen by others (Cancer on 5th house cusp; Moon, its ruler, in Pisces conjunct Ascendant).   At some level Michael just wanted to be a child – loved, seen, special, nurtured – and much of his behavior in this lifetime can be understood as his insistence on being allowed to be a child, to remain innocent, to be “Peter Pan” in Neverland.  The chief problem in this is that for Michael, being a child meant being a performer (Cancer on 5th), meaning that the child itself was never receiving the love that it was inspiring, rather the projection and the image and the performance were receiving the love (Ascendant/5th house dynamics), and this is the origin of the child beginning to think it IS the image.   Thus, in trying to receive the love and nurturing of others, Michael became “trapped in the mirror” of what others were reflecting back, the ultimate expression of the mythology of Narcissus,  who became transfixed by the reflection/image of himself, thereby losing contact with himself directly.

The Soul history of this dilemma is a painful one and has its early referents deep in the origins of patriarchal consciousness (Vesta exactly on the Cancer/Capricorn nodal axes of Saturn and Pluto), again connected to incarnations of this Soul as a woman.  In matriarchal times, this Soul was one of the women who would help to initiate young boys into their sexuality, and particularly the joy of their sexuality.  She was particularly gifted and talented in this, and emphasized the joyousness and creativity involved in the sexual act.  She was a mother to many “children” in this way, and in some lifetimes it is likely that this was a very good feeling for her.  She had a deep and pure hunger to give and receive in a creative context, to be of service in this way, and indeed to be a mother literally with children of her own (Vesta in Cancer/5th).  A broader understanding of this would be an objective often described by Michael in some of his humanitarian work, of “letting children be children” – nurturing the creative instinct and the inner hearth-fire of spirit in every child (Vesta in Cancer/5th) and preserving the innocence of children (5th house ruler Moon in Pisces).   
However, as patriarchal consciousness took hold, the Soul’s natural joy in this was held to be unacceptable (SNs of Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn 10th opposite Vesta).  My sense is that this orientation of the Soul was in a sense dropped for a long period of time while a lot of the dynamics described in the SN section above took hold – the Soul more in a warrior/outcast role.  Then when the Soul was worn down from all that fighting and surviving across lifetimes, and needed the Leo “shoring up” described before, this natural 5th house Vesta energy was reactivated.  But by this time patriarchal rather than matriarchal consciousness would have dictated the expression of this archetype, meaning that there would not have been an acceptable role as initiating mother or indeed even for the more open sexual energy that the Vesta archetype in its unconditioned expression represents.  The castration lifetime described by Rad and Kristin is a great example of this, in that the attempt to express this sexual energy with siblings (Venus ruling both 3rd and 8th houses) met with severe trauma/crisis in the form of castration (Chiron opposite and Mars square that Venus in Leo/6th), thereby narrowing for the Soul the kinds of expressions that it could permit in this new work with its sexual energy (Venus in new phase semisextile to Vesta).   The necessary adjustment for the Soul in this context would have involved working within the paradigm of arranged marriage (Vesta semisquare Pluto, and Pluto conjunct Juno), the Soul thereby becoming a kind of “whorish performer” for its spouses and perhaps also their friends.  The Soul was humiliated for its natural expression of self, and this humiliation was taken very deeply to heart; it was humiliated by masculinist ideologues with authoritarian and shaming definitions of the “Truth” (Saturn in 9th/Sagittarius inconjunct Vesta) as well as by objectifying projections of sickness and woundedness (Chiron in 12th/Aquarius inconjunct Vesta, completing the yod).  Thus the Soul found its very natural desire to give and receive love transmogrified into a projection of unnaturalness, brokenness, and immorality. 

At the same time, self-expression and creativity being so core to the Soul’s nature (Pluto conjunct Sun and Leo planets; Leo stellium; ruler of NN in Leo), the Soul did not give up its drive to create and project.  Instead, the orientation of the Soul in these lifetimes was to listen to and ultimately merge with the projections that were placed upon it: in effect, to live into those projections and attempt to embody them, to be what the people, and particularly the men, wanted it to be, to be the fantasy (NN in Libra/8th, the skip-ahead node, conjunct Jupiter in Libra/8th and Neptune in Scorpio/8th).  In part, this was driven by simple survival requirements, but at the same time there was also a desire in the Soul to regain power: by becoming the larger-than-life figure of these men’s patriarchal fantasies, being their ultimate fantasy of the “original woman” (asteroid Lilith conjunct the Jupiter/Neptune/NN), the Soul would be able to act out its anger upon them in indirect, manipulative, and seemingly passive ways that would allow it to take its revenge while remaining idealized (Mars SN in Libra/8th conjunct NN and Jupiter also Libra/8th) – in effect to have more power than its seeming masters. 

To do this the Soul in these lifetimes played the role of the ultimate performer, anticipating and fulfilling the desires of these men, however bizarre and strange, servicing them with virtuoso-like skill such that this talented performer, rather than the man she was servicing, actually became the “star” of the show (Venus, ruler of NN, in Leo/6th, conjunct Uranus, Amor), even though the performance was garbed in the fantasy roles scripted by the men (all of above conjunct Neptune NN).  In this way the Soul acted out, in a distorted way, its rage relative to the requirements of the cultures into which it was born (Dark Moon Lilith in 6th/Leo also conjunct all of above), also acting out the Soul’s deep preoccupation with dynamics of power and assertion of self in unequal circumstances that has been so central to it (Pluto conjunct Juno). 

By the time of the Soul’s incarnation as Michael Jackson, it had played out this particular dynamic in multiple lifetimes and with substantial degrees of fame and notoriety.  However, the Soul’s intense focus on approval and validation and its intense memories of trauma relative to the exercise of creativity (Chiron in Aquarius and Saturn in Sagittarius in yod with skipped step Vesta), kept the Soul desiring this particular strategy of pseudo-empowerment.  Thus, to truly exhaust the Soul’s desire for all of this, a kind of “maximum inflation” (Jupiter/Neptune) was required in Michael Jackson’s lifetime, and this was being the ultimate “SUPERSTAR” – planet-wide stardom and fame of a kind never possible in the prior lifetimes in which this dynamic was active, a kind of stardom that could only be accomplished in the particular historical context and moment into which the Soul was born.  The Soul in this lifetime became the ultimate global fantasy projection screen, with its personal self and its public self in an unconscious state of fusion, receiving more attention than any Soul on the planet had up to this time: adulation, attention, denigrations, projections of so many people in so many places (Jupiter, ruler of and septile to Midheaven, conjunct Neptune, ruler of and trine to Ascendant; Venus/Uranus/Pallas/Mercury in Leo in grand trine to Midheaven and SN; Full Moon in Pisces conjunct Ascendant; Pluto conjunct Sun).  And this was exactly what was needed to truly and completely exhaust this desire of the Soul, because, taken to its maximum inflation, this route to power ultimately bottomed out, bringing much pain, suffering, and disillusionment, and in bottoming out, the Soul could finally be released and let go of this pattern (both Neptune/Jupiter and Pluto/Sun conjunctions are balsamic).  At the time Michael died, transiting Jupiter had just surpassed transiting Neptune and then stationed, forming a very tight New phase conjunction to one another in Michael’s 12th house, trining his natal balsamic Jupiter/Netune conjunction . . . Rad could this be an indication that this Soul did in fact complete this Jupiter/Neptune cycle and exhaust at last the separating desire relative to BEING the projection, and was ready to move on to an entirely new cycle in the next lifetime? 

In any case, once this desire could be released, the deeper resolution and evolutionary intention for the Soul in terms of dealing with being “trapped in the mirror” would be to reclaim true empowerment from within, rather than to attempt to have power over others through playing their game, which kept it trapped.  In particular this would involve the Soul claiming its own internal authority, and its ability to define itself versus to be defined by others, to set its own boundaries (South Node, resolution node, in Aries/2nd).  To develop self-reliance relative to its creative force and to be able to define for itself exactly who it is and what it wants to focus on, without reference to the desires and messages from others about who it is and what it is about.  By doing so, the Soul would be able to engage a very deep healing of the wounds of masculinist culture that it carries so deeply and at so many levels, and to restore the natural instinctive feminine energy that had become considerably distorted in its expressions (Black Moon Lilith in Aries/2nd conjunct Chiron SN in Taurus/2nd, both conjunct SN).

This would happen through the Soul learning to store up and preserve its own energy, building up a store of energy (Mars in Taurus) versus constantly “giving it away” as was the tendency in the desire to give and receive love and attention (Cancer/5th).  It would also involve deeply grounding in the physical body, versus the tendency to idealize and transform the form (Neptune in Scorpio 8th conjunct NN).  Michael needed to strongly “land” in the body so as to experience a natural sense of limits and definition, then in an embodied way exploring its own world and using its own values and preferences to name and define the world around it (Mars in Taurus/3rd).  By so doing, the Soul would discover the relativity of different reality systems of meaning and labeling phenomena, such that it would not have to feel confined to the reality systems and labels that had become affixed to it and to which it had become affixed.  The Soul could explore the world, venture forth, allowing itself to encounter different experiences and becoming very curious about those, not taking them on but rather trying them on, literally embodying them, to see which ones fit its own values and preferences  -- and to me, Michael truly accomplished this through the vehicle of his music (Mars in Taurus) and his performances (Venus in Leo dispositing that Mars) which were innovative, dramatic, inspired and inspiring (Venus conjunct Uranus, Mercury, Pallas, NN Neptune, NN Mercury).  When he performed and sang, one could feel at a somatic level how totally embodied he could be, and feel the buildup of energy (Taurus) that had come prior to the powerful release one was witnessing on stage.  His actual performance of his music was on his own terms, period.  In the actual performance of his music, he was in touch – often literally – with his body.  Very often in the moment of musical encounter, his eyes were not on the world or on any particular image, projection, or need for validation from outside of itself. 

Here is a video of a concert in which he sang the song, “Man in the Mirror”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Nh84lfvW0.  To me this video is truly incredible.  In it, Michael is clearly in charge, embodied, and on his own terms (SN 2nd/Aries, ruler Mars in 2nd/Taurus), versus being “trapped in the mirror” as it would seem he so often was otherwise (skipped step Vesta in 5th/Cancer).  Having in this moment integrated the creative impulse successfully (through SN), one can see that he is then able (per NN) to be the channel of a powerful message about being aware of the realities of others, looking at what is hard to look at, transcending selfishness, and questioning and confronting oneself in order to make change (NN 8th/Libra, conjunct Jupiter 8th/Libra and Neptune 8th/Scorpio) – see the lyrics just below.  This video also shows the response of his audience to this transmission, with many people passing out, fainting, completely overwhelmed by what is taking place on the stage.  I think in the past I might have considered this to be merely foolish idealization and hysterics relative to a rockstar, however when really attuning to what is taking place here, to me it appears to be a genuine spiritual experience for many of these individuals.  While it might be narrated by the ego as “oh my god Michael Jackson” and the involved individuals might have many projections and fantasies about Michael the person, nevertheless it could be that individuals were receiving a spiritual and healing transmission through Michael’s being (Neptune and NN Chiron both conjunct NN).  Certainly many who have been bringers of spiritual healing have had their share of crazy followers with their bizarre notions of who those people were.  These moments of musical encounter do seem to speak to the heart of the evolutionary journey of this Soul.  They embody the Soul’s powerful, intense commitment to service (Pluto/Sun/Juno in 6th/Virgo) as well as its intention to use the self and the creative urge as a vehicle to bring healing and union to the human family (PPP in 12th/Pisces, NN in Libra/8th conjunct Neptune/Jupiter, ruler Venus conjunct Uranus/Mercury/Pallas/NN Neptune all in Leo/6th).  They also speak to this Soul’s evolutionary condition in 3rd individuated, wherein Souls begin to have intimations and moments of genuine spiritual alignment as they evolve towards the spiritual states.   Here are some of the lyrics to “Man in the Mirror” well-titled for many reasons:         

As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)

I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)

Lastly, I did want to comment on Michael’s relationship with his father, as it was so central and so related to the skipped steps dynamics I have focused on here.  As already discussed in a few points above, the lifetime of Michael Jackson naturally reconstellated the skipped step dynamics of the Soul’s previous lifetimes.  Particularly relating to the skipped step dynamics, he was made into a “child star” and began this process of reconstellation very early in life (grand trine of Vesta/Moon/Adonis).  Of course Michael would come in time to experience the objectifying wounding projections of the public that replicated past experiences (Chiron inconjunct), but he was subject much earlier to the intense authoritarian criticism that in this lifetime was delivered through his truly dark “stage father” (Saturn conjunct the Midheaven and Lucifer, all inconjunct Vesta) constantly finding him lacking and forcing him to adjust himself to the father’s own narcissistic needs (Saturn conjunct Narcissus) and the father’s self-centered sense of a “special destiny” (Saturn in Sagittarius).  The father was also a behind-the-scenes abuser and the chief orchestrator, in this lifetime, of many of the grandiose but dark and extreme visions his son would try to live into and up to (Jupiter ruler of 10th conjunct Neptune in Scorpio, both in 8th house).  He was incredibly harsh towards his son and it seems clear that Michael’s relatively fragile ego structure was the direct result of this physical and emotional abuse (Saturn square Moon and AC in Pisces).  There are strong indications that the Soul of Joe Jackson would have been one of the spouses of Michael’s Soul in the past who had the kind of abusive and using marriage with the Soul of Michael as described above, and who would have made the Soul of Michael into his own personal performer, thereby having been instrumental in creating the causative factors of the skipped steps in the Soul of Michael, much in the way that in this lifetime he did this to Michael. (Beginning in Michael’s chart alone, the fact of his Juno identification through his Pluto conjunct Juno, and the signifier of his father being Jupiter through its 10th house rulership, Jupiter in mythology being the abusive owner/spouse of Juno; then in synastry Joe Jackson’s Pluto being exactly conjunct Michael’s Vesta and square Michael’s nodes; his Mars in Taurus being exactly conjunct Michael’s Mars in Taurus, and square to Michael’s Venus in Leo; Michael’s Sun/Pluto/Juno and his Moon square to Joe Jackson’s nodes; Joe Jackson data: July 26, 1928, Arkansas, time unknown).   

One of the other dynamics that comes up in this context of Michael’s Soul’s relationship with Joe Jackson’s Soul that I didn’t cover above is the possibility of this Soul (again relative to the skipped step Vesta in 5th/Cancer) having had a lifetime or lifetimes as a child prostitute, involving similar dynamics as those it would have played out with spouses in the pattern described above, in which the Soul attempted to live into the fantasies of the Other in order to survive and to have a felt sense of power and dignity (NN dynamics covered above, but also can add in Ganymede, the boy-youth who seduced the “elder” Zeus, and got himself promoted into the pantheon).   This seems very plausibly another way these skipped steps were played out, and if this was the case, then it seems from the aspects above that the Soul of Joe could also have been the pimp who, as in this lifetime, traded in on the Soul of Michael’s looks and talents for his own benefit.  As well, the possibility of having been the “child bride” is also strong, both individually for Michael as well as potentially in relation to Joe Jackson. 

Finally, another possible element of this Soul’s karmic history that occurs to me is of this Soul having been a young unspoiled boy of the kind chosen for necromancy in ancient Rome/Greece/Egypt.  In the cults which practiced necromancy, often a “special” virgin youth was chosen to scry the remains of the dead for prophetic information and/or a young “perfect” pubescent boy would himself be sacrificed and then the diviner would scry the boy’s remains. Usually there was also pederasty involving sex with this boy by the priest or rulers involved.  This scenario seems very plausible to me as a part of this Soul’s history (Grand Trine of Vesta in Cancer/5th to ruler Moon in Pisces/1st, to Adonis in Scorpio/8th; Adonis conjunct Neptune in Scorpio/8th conjunct NN and Ganymede; these also conjunct to Jupiter, scrying having usually taken place with the ruler in secret).  This could be more of the karmic background to the Soul’s current-day drive to let children be children, accusations of his own use of children, and continuing to work out the complex around “specialness”.  Rad could I ask you to comment on this and the suggestions relative to child prostitution and the Soul’s experiences with the Soul of Joe Jackson?

Looking forward to our ongoing conversation,

God bless,
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« Reply #38 on: Jan 27, 2012, 02:20 PM »

Hi group,

It looks like everyone who was planning to post on Michael Jackson has done so.  Thank you all so much, it feels like we are off to a really great start with this thread!

Unfortunately, I've recently become very overextended in my life and I have to make some changes in terms of my level of activity (classic tr Mars Virgo rx I guess). As a result, I asked Rad if he would be willing to take full direction of this thread, and he has agreed to do so.  I still hope to participate but to ensure the continuity and quality of the thread this seemed to be the best option.  I apologize for the disruption and am very grateful to Rad for his willingness to step in.  I'm looking forward to the continued exploration and deep learning I know is in store as a result.

With love,
God bless,
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« Reply #39 on: Jan 27, 2012, 04:19 PM »

Hi All,

I will be reviewing all of your analysis's of Michael Jackson's EA paradigm in the next few days. I will then make my observations and comments for each of you.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #40 on: Jan 31, 2012, 11:39 AM »

Hi Kristin, Linda, Cat, Mirta, Gonzalo, Jason, and Steven

I have now read through all of your EA analysis's of the core Pluto paradigm for Michael Jackson. I will not be extracting the various dynamics that each of you have identified in your analysis's that stand out to me as I have done so much in the past right now. I resume this in our next segment on Jackson's specific sexuality. Some have asked specific questions of me which I will answer.

For Jason:

"Rad, could I ask you to confirm or disconfirm these various scenarios if possible?"

They did occur ................

“Rad could this be an indication that this Soul did in fact complete this Jupiter/Neptune cycle and exhaust at last the separating desire relative to BEING the projection, and was ready to move on to an entirely new cycle in the next lifetime? “


"Rad could I ask you to comment on this and the suggestions relative to child prostitution and the Soul’s experiences with the Soul of Joe Jackson?"

It‘s true ................

From Steven:

"Whether MJ was able to do all this is open to interpretation, and my own take is that he tried to embody the two desired soul needs by creating two personas (one for the stage, and one "private", which was also, ironically, served up to the public) with which he then tried to find union (Juno and Pallas conjunct Pluto/Sun).  I sense that his very poignant expression of being a pure-soul-too-good-for-this-world is, ultimately, just another masochistic archetypal "role" favored by the Virgo-Pisces polarity, and not his deepest self, which also must own up to the power and aggression and sexuality reflected by the SN node, and which he channeled into his artistic work and artistic persona. Would this be accurate, as others see it?"

No, it’s not just a ‘role’ as you put it: the core of his soul is defined by natural laws which are then reflected in his natural simplicity that manifests as a natural innocence. In other words, it is who he is from a Soul point of view.


Steve you did really good work for your first real effort. Please read through all the other EA analysis's presented by the others which will help you in your ongoing understanding of the core principles of EA, and the comprehensive depth that they can provide to the EA astrologer.

Gonzalo you did excellent EA work with respect to what you focused on, but it's is not as comprehensive as I know otherwise you can do.

Mirta, Kristin, Cat, Jason and Linda: you have all done excellent EA work, and each of you have included various asteroids which really help create a total understanding of the evolutionary history of Michael Jackson. The depth and comprehensiveness was simply excellent.

So before we proceed with a specific EA analysis of the sexuality of Michael Jackson I would like you all to read through what each other has shared to gain a total picture of the core EA paradigm in his chart. If you have any questions please ask them now. We will start the next part in a few days time.

God Bless, Rad

« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2012, 01:06 PM by Rad » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: Jan 31, 2012, 08:22 PM »

Hi Rad and Everyone,

I was meandering around the internet looking at various reincarnation sites.  I found one which had an article about two of Michael Jackson's possible past lives.


This information comes via a guy named Kevin Ryerson who is a channel. According to this article it is believed that Michael Jackson was a Charles Dassoucy in a past life, having traveled with two young boys with a troupe of entertainers (France 1600's).  He had given himself the self-proclaimed title of "Emperor of Entertainers" (current life "King of Pop").  The channel traced an earlier lifetime in which MJ, as a young boy, had been enlisted in the Children's Crusades occurring around 1200 AD.  The experience of losing his life as a child soldier led to an emotional trauma being inflicted on the soul of MJ to never lose his childhood again, and this urge has persisted for 800 years.

What do you think?  These lifetimes of MJ, if accepted, do correlate to his Vesta Cancer 5th square the Nodes skipped steps, and to his SN Aries ruled by Mars 3rd. ...as well as Amazone conj Pluto.

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« Reply #42 on: Feb 01, 2012, 08:41 AM »

Hi Cat,

I personally do not want to be put into a position of validating something like this. What is important in EA is an understanding of the DYNAMICS with a Soul, and the reasons for those dynamics. On very rare occasions it can be beneficial for a given Soul to know an actual name from it's prior lives which is always linked to providing a catalyst that will allow the Soul to move on in it's ongoing evolution. This is not the case here with Michael Jackson. 

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #43 on: Feb 01, 2012, 11:58 AM »

Hi Kristin, Gray, Mirta, Linda, Gonzalo, Steven, Jason, and Cat ........

Let's go ahead and begin our next segment on the specific sexual signature within the birth chart of Michael Jackson. The combined EA paradigm for his Soul that you have all created is great EA work that will now serve to understand these specific sexual dynamics within his Soul.

So the specific sexual archetypes that we want to be working with are these as posted by Jason:

-Mars/1st House/Aries/Nodes of Mars: Instinctual desire nature of the Soul
-Venus/2nd House/Taurus/Nodes of Venus:  Sexual needs, values, orientations
-Pluto/8th House/Scorpio/Nodes of Pluto: Sexual encounters, experiences, and partners
-The Pluto/Mars, Pluto/Venus, and Mars/Venus Cycles: Development of sexual themes across lifetimes
-The use of asteroids to flesh out particular sexual archetypes and patterns, in particular I would like to suggest: the four goddess asteroids (Ceres, Pallas, Vesta, Juno); Persephone; Eros; Psyche; Cupido; Dionysus; Pan; Ganymede; Adonis; Lust; [update: Sappho, Amor added to this list; Circe subtracted, my error about the myth].  I have found many of these very useful, provided they are interpreted in the context of a correct understanding of the karmic and primary sexual axes of the chart.

If you have any questions please ask me.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #44 on: Feb 10, 2012, 03:41 PM »

Hi Kristin, Gray, Mirta, Linda, Gonzalo, Steven, Jason, and Cat ........

Please let me know who is planning on continuing with this thread.

God Bless, Rad
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