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Dec 14, 2018, 11:29 AM
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« Reply #75 on: Feb 26, 2012, 11:19 AM »

Hi Gray,

I just wanted to share here, as I do not have the capacities to know if someone was a certain person in a past life, I can only witness/observe at this point similar EA themes that carry through yet the most synchronistic things tend to occur around the time I am working on posts. I was watching the beginning of a movie of the life of Farinelli, I did not know who he was either before I had seen this but literally on the day I was working on this post this came to my attention, and all of a sudden it hit me that there were some fascinating similarities. It happened just like that. I was not going to even bring it up, thought it might be a long shot..and then I found this image of MJ that stopped me in my tracks (mostly because of the attire being straight out of that time)..also because Michael's high pitched voice was so well preserved, it was that fact that caused me to research this a bit further. I was aware of the castrations in that time to preserve the soprano voice in a boy because of being raised by a classical musical father but did not know of Farinelli per se until the exact day of working on this post..clearly higher guides nudging me along..Bless them..and thank you so much Rad for your lens and input.



My apologies for how big this pic is..not sure how to reduce it..

« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2012, 12:21 PM by Kristin » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: Feb 26, 2012, 11:55 AM »

Hi Brenda,

Thanks for sharing this, that is a very intriguing possibility and I will look forward to Rad’s input about it.  It makes a lot of sense to me and it certainly seems congruent with the archetypal dynamics we’ve discussed with MJ’s chart.

I wanted to contextualize my comment on shame and the cardinal signs that you mentioned since that could be hard to understand if someone hasn't heard that show.  To be specific I was referring to Capricorn/Saturn/10th house – which is focused on social identity such that planets involved with this archetype have experienced an internalization of societal and cultural conditioning which results in the experience of shame whenever the individual thinks, feels, or behaves outside of the proscriptions of that conditioning.  In terms of the cardinal cross, what I was getting at is that because of the squares and oppositions of the other cardinal signs to Capricorn, often there is an immediate shame experience, or backlash, when people attempt to act upon their instinctual (Aries), emotional (Cancer), and relational (Libra) drives.  This can come from the outside of course, in terms of being “shamed” by others, but it can also be an internal dynamic.  Even people without planets in Capricorn are subject to this dynamic, in part because of course we all have Saturn and Capricorn somewhere, but also because everyone on the planet today has the South Nodes of both Pluto and Saturn (and Jupiter in many cases) right around the middle or later end of Capricorn, so we are all carrying internally a lot of residual rules and protocols of patriarchy that tend to produce the shame response whenever we “disobey” them.  So to me, any planets in mid-to-late cardinal signs, when they initiate and act which is what cardinal energies naturally do, will be subject to a potential internalized “backlash” of feeling bad or inappropriate somehow.  

Back to MJ I think you are onto something relative to the shame game with his Vesta in Cancer, because it is a great example of this dynamic with its near-exact opposition to the South Nodes of Pluto and Saturn – showing that as patriarchal norms ascended, this aspect of this Soul was judged and punished (also Capricorn) for its natural sexual mentoring – and also showing, in evolutionary terms, that this caused a skipped step (Vesta square lunar nodes) for the Soul and that now it is needing to “throw off” (opposition to those SNs) the old conditioning.  And also the inconjunct of his Vesta with his Saturn in Sagittarius conjunct the midheaven to me is a classic shame signature and to be more specific an archetype of humiliation, because it involves an interaction between 10th/Capricorn/Saturn and 5th/Leo/Sun archetypes.  The 5th house Vesta has a natural drive to project itself into the world, to seek love and validation; but then, bam, that Saturn comes down on it, through the inconjunct, and basically says you are evil (Saturn in Sag/9th – morality cops), and exist only to be used (Saturn/Cap word).  [Not to mention if we add in the other leg of the yod, the Chiron in Aquarius/12th sextile Saturn and inconjunct Vesta, showing how projections of sick deviance went hand-in-glove with the moral posturing to humiliate Jackson.]  In this context it would be easy to see MJ's Soul as having been a bachcha bazi – type figure: a sexualized child (Vesta 5th) enslaved to a leader mover/shaker (Saturn conjunct MC), such a lifetime being an outpicturing and playing out of the shame the Soul took on relative to the Vesta function during patriarchal experiences.

God bless,

p.s. -- Kristin that is an awesome pic and I am GLAD it is so large -- really makes an impact! xoxo
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2012, 12:02 PM by jasonholley » Logged
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« Reply #77 on: Feb 26, 2012, 02:48 PM »

I tried to post, and it did not go through, may have been posting at the same time as Rad.

I started work on Michael Jackson, and then did not have the time to develop it. What originally popped into my head-  related to his Vesta in Cancer square the nodes, and Pluto in Virgo (Afghanistan/Middle East in in the mutable Geodetic zone) was that in prior lifetimes could he have been a Bacha Bazi boy? Here is the link from this forum:


From Wikipedia, bacha bazi means "boy play." These boys were often sold by their families for the family survival (South Node Aries conjunct Lilith, House 2.) The boys are dressed up as women, with dancing veils ( MJ and his children often photographed in masks), the boys are very abused, used up and left to die or killed once they are of no further use , massive boundary violations related to sexuality(NNode H 8, Jupiter/Neptune). Of course Vesta in Cancer related to the gender switching related to sexuality.

I heard Jason (on Kristin's show) say the Cardinal axis was related to Shame, this would be the shame as the source of his inner need for atonement (pluto in Virgo.). I think he tried to rescue other children from this fate, but that too, becomes distored and misunderstood.

Some of the boys--those  that were very desirable and talented could achieve a level of status and power--this could be the source of Michael developing his talent out of absolute survival necessity, also a means to wealth and power.

I also wonder if he had  possible past lives as a Kabuki dancer and/or Geisha? --Venus/Uranus in Leo, Geodetic zone of Japan. This could also further support the extreme stylization of his face beyond just bad plastic surgery.

Anyway, thanks, and I have really enjoyed reading what everyone has written, and how amazing and wonderfully it has all been presented.

God Bless

Hi Brenda,

No, none of those sorts of prior lives apply to Jackson.

God Bless, Rad

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« Reply #78 on: Feb 26, 2012, 07:20 PM »

Rad, thank you very much for your feedback and correction.

Jason, thank you for reviewing your teachings on shame, and bringing them into this specific example.

God Bless
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« Reply #79 on: Feb 27, 2012, 12:19 AM »

Hi Rad and Kristin,

Thank you for writing back about my question, your answers make perfect sense for me. Kristin, I also have experienced some interesting synchronicities regarding subjects I was working on from this message board, though none quite as extraordinary as yours.  A fun one during our time working on John Lennon was randomnly meeting a Brit in Washington who had regularly seen Lennon and The Beatles play in their early days at the Cavern. peace, Gray
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