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Author Topic: The Influence Of Evil In Our Lives: Focus On The Asteroid Lucifer  (Read 36029 times)
Rad
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« Reply #255 on: Nov 03, 2012, 09:42 AM »

Hi Stacie,

Thanks for sharing your story which so perfectly reflects your natal Lucifer retro in Taurus in the 11th. This is, indeed, how the 'bearer of Light' manifests. So many humans always, inwardly, want God to do something for us. How many, within themselves, say "what can I do for God/ess". Your actions with this homeless man reflects exactly that.

God Bless, Rad
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Wendy
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« Reply #256 on: Nov 03, 2012, 09:59 AM »

Hi Rad, I too am following along and may participate fully, it all depends on time and where my focus goes.  

I am wondering about this statement below:
The Soul, in any of us, experiences the intentions of God/ess relative to Lucifer as 'bearer of Light' as an impulse, an energy, a consciousness, that is LARGER THAT THE SOUL ITSELF.

How could this impulse be larger than the soul itself?  Does this mean Lucifer, in the form of bearer of light, helps activate the souls evolutionary mission or intent, so to speak? and natal Pluto?

For me, I personally experience this, as my natal Pluto is in house which rules my natal Lucifer, thus I feel them intrinsically related, with house archetypes that square forcing the issues they bring me personally to the surface.

ALSO, in writing brief descriptions of Lucifer in Aries through the houses, do we write about the house's influence from the perspective of Pluto?  I guess I think about the houses as they relate to Pluto, so getting that out of my mind seems counter-intuitive when thinking about EA.  

Thanks Rad.

Godd'ess Blessings,
Wendy

« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2012, 10:27 AM by Wendy » Logged
Wendy
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« Reply #257 on: Nov 03, 2012, 10:11 AM »

Stacie reading about your encounter brings tears to my eyes and heart--THANK YOU for sharing it.

I too have had similar experiences with those who, in what feels like a loveless never-ending moment and absolute despair, another extends concern and care, at the risk of whatever.  I've been on both sides and another's open-heart and willingness to share truly 'bears light' when there seemed to be none.

with Love,
Wendy
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Rad
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« Reply #258 on: Nov 03, 2012, 11:30 AM »

Hi Wendy,

Hi Rad, I too am following along and may participate fully, it all depends on time and where my focus goes.  

I am wondering about this statement below:
The Soul, in any of us, experiences the intentions of God/ess relative to Lucifer as 'bearer of Light' as an impulse, an energy, a consciousness, that is LARGER THAT THE SOUL ITSELF.

How could this impulse be larger than the soul itself?

*****

Because what we call God/ess is larger than any individual Soul.

**************

  Does this mean Lucifer, in the form of bearer of light, helps activate the souls evolutionary mission or intent, so to speak? and natal Pluto?

**************

Yes because of the consciousness or impulse of God/ess that makes the Soul aware of it's own Source: thus the desire, how ever momentary it may be for some, to return to the Source of the Soul.

*********

For me, I personally experience this, as my natal Pluto is in house which rules my natal Lucifer, thus I feel them intrinsically related, with house archetypes that square forcing the issues they bring me personally to the surface.

ALSO, in writing brief descriptions of Lucifer in Aries through the houses, do we write about the house's influence from the perspective of Pluto?  I guess I think about the houses as they relate to Pluto, so getting that out of my mind seems counter-intuitive when thinking about EA.  

**********

The archetypes that JWG wrote about, taught about, relative to the houses are just that: archetypes that directly correlate to the nature of each house or sign. Pluto as it's own archetype, the Soul, manifests through these archetypes just as he taught. Lucifer also manifests through these very same archetypes in the way that it does. The example I wrote about above illustrates this, just as does the experience that Stacie shared.

************


God Bless, Rad
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Upasika
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« Reply #259 on: Nov 03, 2012, 11:39 PM »

Hi Rad,

If it's OK with you I'd just like see if I understand the bigger picture of where Lucifer fits in (on both sides) before the posts on Lucifer sign & house etc get underway. So I've written the following summary, which is as I understand it. Could you please correct me if my understanding isn't right?

*******

SOURCE is all that has existed, does exist, and will exist - because SOURCE is eternally ALL THAT IS, whether manifested or not.

SOURCE has created us all as a Soul, a consciousness that - like energy - cannot be destroyed, rather can only change, or inhabit different, forms. And within us at this Soul level, we have two fundamental kinds of desire – one, to go on a journey of separation from our SOURCE so that we can discover our individuality to it’s fullest, and the resulting separation to it’s fullest. And once that has been achieved, the other kind of desire comes to the fore, to then return back to the SOURCE from where we originally came.

Evolution for the Soul involves the entire journey away from SOURCE as it follows it’s separating desires, progressively growing in individuality as it does so, and then the long journey back to SOURCE as it follows the desire to reunite with SOURCE, gradually losing all it’s individuality as it does so, until it eventually it becomes fully merged back into SOURCE itself.

However also operating at the Soul level is the freedom at any moment to choose which kind of desire to act upon. And regardless of which kind of desire we actually do pursue, karma is created either way. This creates a unique pathway for each Soul - each journey is different. And because of this freedom very little in each Soul’s journey is linear – usually it’s a criss-crossing path involving forward, backwards and sideways movement, depending on lots of trial and error and the eventual choices each Soul actually makes. This journey of the Soul (as relevant to the current life) is represented by Pluto, it’s Nodes and their rulers, and the PPP.

In order to facilitate this process, in each incarnation the Soul creates an ego, a body/feeling/thinking mechanism through which to focus the consciousness and desires of the Soul. This ego, represented by the Moon, is mostly experienced as a (usually deeply subconscious) complex emotionally based image and sense of ourselves, and when this remains consistent and familiar over time we feel inwardly secure. And the manner of operation of this ego mechanism during the past, in this life and in the future (as relevant to the current life), is shown by the Moon’s Nodes and their rulers, and the Moon’s PP.

The freedom of the Soul is experienced by each of us at an ego and being level as the sense of “free will” that we have. “I can do what I like” is the Being (“I” - Sun) speaking from that sense of separation (Ego – Moon) asserting my “free will”.  

This sense of free will experienced by all of us via our Sun and Moon is the key ingredient in the evolution of our Soul, because each choice we make has deep implications.

The Soul has been seeded from SOURCE with the need to evolve. To do so the Soul creates evolutionary intentions for each life (shown primarily by the condition of Pluto and the PPP, and the Moon’s Nodes and their rulers, and then secondarily by the remainder of the entire chart except the Sun). These intentions are transmitted from our Soul to our conscious self (primarily Sun & Moon) via Mars (lower octave of Pluto) as desires that we become conscious of. There will usually be a plethora of desires that we become aware of, some stronger than others, and depending on each Soul, a different mix of desires to separate, and to return.

Because of our free will we (as a being/ego/personality) can either choose to cooperate with those desires that are of a separating nature, or those desires of a returning nature, or some of both. If we decide to pursue desires to separate then we’re moving away from SOURCE, and eventually (after many, many lives) into a more closed isolated situation. If however, we follow desires to return, then we will be opening ourselves to change, expansion and a more liberated situation.

SOURCE, having the intention to help each of us as a Soul evolve, and in so doing move closer to ITSELF, manifests in each of us an impulse/energy/consciousness that is experienced by us as being a greater force than ourselves. If we recognise this force, and it’s inherent intentions (to help us), and use our free will to choose to move through any fears and past any blocks we may have, to then fully acknowledging this impulse inside us by surrendering to it, and thus acting from it, we are actually directly aligning with SOURCE itself. And thus, according to the capacity we’ve developed to be able to do so to that point, we will directly experience the energy and consciousness of SOURCE as a result.

These intentions of SOURCE to help us, this energy or consciousness within us that is experienced as being larger than us, larger than our Soul - is represented in the chart by Lucifer, operating as the “Bearer of Light”. In this situation, it is SOURCE itself manifesting to us via Lucifer. When this is happening our experiences of what is sharing & kindness, goodness, honesty, compassion, nourishment ... what is truth, essence, beauty, unconditional love, peace, joy , ecstasy & bliss ... are all magnified and intensified. These are the moments when we feel blessed to be alive (as Stacie shared with us).

These intentions for us to be helped are unique to each of us, so by looking at Lucifer’s location (sign and house) and it’s aspects we can see what these intentions are and how they will be experienced. Thus Lucifer in the chart can show us where we can potentially accelerate our evolution back to SOURCE.

***************

Because we are creating our own karma with every choice we make, and we are often confused as to which kind of desire to pursue, sometimes we create situations where, as a result of choices we’ve made and the karma they’ve created, our experience of the situation provides us with extreme challenges – in the form of hardship; physical, emotional or mental pain; doubt and anguish; disillusionment and despair. Challenges such as these can test our capacity to know what to do, totally undermine our sense of self and wellbeing, reduce our willpower to virtually nothing, and induce the deepest feeling of helplessness, humiliation and worthlessness…

In these situations, when we are as low as we can imagine it’s possible to go, our need to survive can be extreme. We can start to feel and think there MUST be a way to overcome the challenges of the situation. But if we have tried everything we can do ourselves, tried asking everyone we can for help, tried endlessly pleading with existence, and nothing has helped us, then we can become very, very desperate.

We now get down to two basic choices:

One - is to realise through deep reflection, that we are in this situation because of a (possibly long) chain of choices we have made in the past, all leading to this current situation. If this situation brings us to do this then it may in fact become a huge turning point in our lives, when we see ourselves in a lot clearer perspective and detail than we have done for a long time. If this does happen one result of that can be a potent return of inner determination to renew one's efforts to change the situation. Or, realising that we have created it ourselves ... this recognition that it has arisen from our own doing becomes enough to reconcile us with the situation. And because of that we may decide to simply accept it as it is, and drop the struggle to change everything.

or Two - to start blaming other people for what we are experiencing. And thus start feeling other people are entirely responsible for what has come into reality in our life at this time. This inevitably positions us as the victim in the situation, and once the sense of victimisation takes hold the sense of hurt and powerlessness can rise to a peak ... if this is sustained over time it can result in a great loss of objectivity, a greatly distorted perspective on reality. And if we continue on in our refusal to accept our own responsibility for what is occurring in this way, and our sense of separation is strong (or at the least intact), then this can awaken one or more separating desires that may, or may not, have been dormant for a very long time ... for example desire for greed, power, lust, control, revenge etc. All depending on what the situation is, and what is perceived by the Soul as being required to change the situation in the Soul’s favor and/or hit back at the others involved, or all others generally.

These desires come from the Soul (Pluto). And at this point SOURCE can manifest inside of us a sense that enormous power DOES exist that can help us – this power is sensed as being larger than us, larger than our Soul, and so we know it really could help us – feels exactly that it could completely smash the limitations we are currently experiencing.

At this point as a Soul we are at a critical junction in our path – we are now being tempted by SOURCE manifesting via Lucifer, operating as the “Primary Agent of Evil”. Intrinsic to our sense of this power is the sensing of it’s qualities … dark, devious, ugly, complete destruction of goodness, cruel, brutal, demonic, relentlessly powerful, totally demanding, ruthless, enslaving and eventually murderous. In the very experiencing of it, it is starkly obvious that to say yes to this power acting on our behalf to change the situation, is to completely surrender our free will to this power. And once exposed like this, tempted, that is the only thing that can save us from this power – our own free will.

And in these moments all the despair that we are experiencing, the helplessness, and the desire for that to go away, even if it means being greedy & possesive, nasty, hateful, vindictive & revengeful, manipulative, controlling, exploitive, dominating, violent and willfully destructive ... all these feelings become hugely magnified and intensified. With the temptation likewise expanding ...

If we don't see the danger and withdraw from it, but move towards this power and surrender to it, we will have aligned with the Devil / Satan, and in so doing, will as a result directly experience, according to how developed our capacity to do so has become to that point, the energy and consciousness of Evil itself .

This temptation is unique to each of us, so by looking at Lucifer’s location (sign and house) and it’s aspects we can see what this temptation is and how it would be likely to manifest. Thus Lucifer in the chart can show us where we can potentially form a contract with Evil, with the resulting loss of all freedom, permanent imprisonment, that this contract brings.

Thank you,
Upasika
« Last Edit: Nov 05, 2012, 02:14 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #260 on: Nov 04, 2012, 07:36 AM »

Hi Upasika,

Yes to all you have presented except this key point:

"In these situations, when we are as low as we can imagine it’s possible to go, our need to survive can be extreme. We can start to feel and think there MUST be a way to overcome the challenges of the situation. But if we have tried everything we can do ourselves, tried asking everyone we can for help, tried endlessly pleading with existence, and nothing has helped us, then we can become very, very desperate.

We now get down to two choices – one, surrender and accept that this is the will of SOURCE, or two, refuse to surrender to the situation. "

**********

If those types of conditions exist it is not a matter of it being the ‘will of the Source’. It is a matter of accepting the responsibility in our own actions, past and present, that are the causes of these conditions. This is critical to understand because if it is not then the Soul can or will feel ‘victimized’. Once the Soul feels victimized this then sets in motion the possibility to be tempted by Lucifer in the form of wanting to get back at those that we feel we have been victimized by specifically, and all others generally. In the essence the Source did not cause whatever those conditions are. The Soul itself has.

God Bless, Rad
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #261 on: Nov 04, 2012, 09:05 AM »

Hi Rad

I have a question about Lucifer archetype and the daimon Jung spoke about. They seem similar in that both the lucifer consciousness and the daimon can be experienced by the Soul as something different than the Soul’s own consciousness. Jung became acquainted with these inner voice, who he said revealed him important parts of his work, and also identified this consciousness as existing entities which he called by their own names, such as Philemon, and Basilides.

These are quotes from Jung:   

"I have had much trouble getting along with my ideas. There was a daimon in me, and in the end its presence proved decisive. It overpowered me, and if I was at times ruthless it was because I was in the grip of the daimon.. . . A creative person has little power over his own life. He is not free. He is captive and driven by his daimon." 

“Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life. Philemon represented a force that was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. […] Psychologically, Philemon represented superior insight.”

In Jung’s birthchart, lucifer is conjunct his North Node in Aries 2nd House. The north node of his lucifer is conjunct Saturn in the 1st House Aquarius. A painting Jung made of Philemon can be seen as a reflection of the Saturn in Aquarius symbol:



Is Jung's daimon a possible manifestation of the lucifer archetype?

God Bless,
Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #262 on: Nov 04, 2012, 09:53 AM »

Hi Rad

I have a question about Lucifer archetype and the daimon Jung spoke about. They seem similar in that both the lucifer consciousness and the daimon can be experienced by the Soul as something different than the Soul’s own consciousness. Jung became acquainted with these inner voice, who he said revealed him important parts of his work, and also identified this consciousness as existing entities which he called by their own names, such as Philemon, and Basilides.

These are quotes from Jung:   

"I have had much trouble getting along with my ideas. There was a daimon in me, and in the end its presence proved decisive. It overpowered me, and if I was at times ruthless it was because I was in the grip of the daimon.. . . A creative person has little power over his own life. He is not free. He is captive and driven by his daimon." 

“Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life. Philemon represented a force that was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. […] Psychologically, Philemon represented superior insight.”

In Jung’s birthchart, lucifer is conjunct his North Node in Aries 2nd House. The north node of his lucifer is conjunct Saturn in the 1st House Aquarius. A painting Jung made of Philemon can be seen as a reflection of the Saturn in Aquarius symbol:



Is Jung's daimon a possible manifestation of the lucifer archetype?

God Bless,
Gonzalo

Hi Gonzalo,

Yes. First with the natal Lucifer in Aries in his 2nd House we can see the symbolism that is reflected in my earlier example of Lucifer in Aries in the 2nd House: a change of the Soul's inner relationship to itself that correlates with new values that then correlate with the Souls' sense of meaning of it's life. A new cycle of evolutionary development within that, and given to others and an inner resource to do so that then has the affect of helping them change themselves.

His N.Node of Lucifer is in Pisces, conjunct his natal Saturn in Aquarius in the 1st House. In your above quote by him the key words for this: "In my fantasies.....". And the ruler Neptune is then in her 3rd House manifesting as inner communication leading to new ideas about the nature of the human psyche: Soul. This Neptune is ruled by Venus in Cancer which is ruled by his Moon in Taurus conjunct his Pluto in his 3rd.

His S.Node of Lucifer is in Leo conjunct his natal Uranus. This correlates to previous influences of the 'bearer of Light' prior to this life which also correlate to his Soul doing inner investigations upon the nature of the individuated unconscious is all of us, and the various inner energies within it including what he called the daimen.

And this journey continued in the life of Jung. The ruler of his natal Lucifer is Mars in Sagittarius in his 11th House conjunct his resolution Lilath, and trine his S.Node of Lucifer conjunct Uranus.

God Bless, Rad


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Upasika
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« Reply #263 on: Nov 04, 2012, 01:48 PM »

Hi Rad,

Aha! Yes of course, I had neglected to include the victimisation aspect of that situation developing negatively towards evil. Since this is the key point on which the Soul feels it has made its decision I'll edit my post and include that - if you could just recheck that paragraph and if it's still not right let me know I'd be grateful .

Thanks Rad.

blessings Upasika
« Last Edit: Nov 04, 2012, 02:27 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #264 on: Nov 05, 2012, 07:32 AM »

Hi Rad,

Aha! Yes of course, I had neglected to include the victimisation aspect of that situation developing negatively towards evil. Since this is the key point on which the Soul feels it has made its decision I'll edit my post and include that - if you could just recheck that paragraph and if it's still not right let me know I'd be grateful .

Thanks Rad.

blessings Upasika

Hi Upasika,

It's well stated now.

God Bless, Rad
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Linda
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« Reply #265 on: Nov 05, 2012, 02:48 PM »

Quote
We now get down to two basic choices:

One - is to realise through deep reflection, that we are in this situation because of a (possibly long) chain of choices we have made in the past, all leading to this current situation. If this situation brings us to do this then it may in fact become a huge turning point in our lives, when we see ourselves in a lot clearer perspective and detail than we have done for a long time. If this does happen one result of that can be a potent return of inner determination to renew one's efforts to change the situation. Or, realising that we have created it ourselves ... this recognition that it has arisen from our own doing becomes enough to reconcile us with the situation. And because of that we may decide to simply accept it as it is, and drop the struggle to change everything.

or Two - to start blaming other people for what we are experiencing. And thus start feeling other people are entirely responsible for what has come into reality in our life at this time. This inevitably positions us as the victim in the situation, and once the sense of victimisation takes hold the sense of hurt and powerlessness can rise to a peak ... if this is sustained over time it can result in a great loss of objectivity, a greatly distorted perspective on reality. And if we continue on in our refusal to accept our own responsibility for what is occurring in this way, and our sense of separation is strong (or at the least intact), then this can awaken one or more separating desires that may, or may not, have been dormant for a very long time ... for example desire for greed, power, lust, control, revenge etc. All depending on what the situation is, and what is perceived by the Soul as being required to change the situation in the Soul’s favor and/or hit back at the others involved, or all others generally.



Hi Rad and Upasika,

Just wondering if it is possible that a combination of one and two can be experienced, as a kind of transitional stage?  

For example, let's say that the Soul, due to completely understanding and embracing 'choice one,' its life begins to unfold as an expanding awareness/alignment with SOURCE.  Yet, at the same time, due to its own past actions (old self-image, memories stored within itself) that caused its own suffering/hurt/pain, it does not wish to be reminded of the past.  It has objectified those past dynamics, and desires to detach and liberate from them, as an expression of its desire for a firmer establishment in returning desire to SOURCE.

So could we say that there are different stages between the choices of the past self-image/conditionings/desires (Saturn and its karma) interacting with the desire for liberation (Uranus) that will enable deeper spiritualization (Neptune).  

Upasika, what you described sounds very black and white, one choice or the other (Scorpio), because of it being such a serious issue for the Soul.

Should the Soul try to rectify its mistakes (desires) of the past, and perhaps put itself in danger of regurgitating the past painful dynamics all over again, or just wipe the slate clean and go from there? Here the Soul would need to know the difference between natural guilt and man-made guilt (Virgo).

Is it better to detach from those who remind us of where we went wrong in the past? Could this be a reflection of a personal choice toward the Bearer of Light so that the Soul can start afresh without having to prove itself to others?  As a reflection of unconditional self-love and self-forgiveness?  I guess I'm talking about a feeling of humiliation that, on a human level, could be used against the Soul to remind it of its past impure desires. So the Soul would need to get past that feeling of humiliation and guilt so that the Bearer of Light can shine.

Yet on a Bearer of Light level, there is no judgment, just pure unconditional love, light, bliss and encouragement to continue the journey back to SOURCE.

Of course I do realize that every Soul is unique, yet I would be very interested in reading your comments on the above points.

Thanks,

Linda

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Upasika
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« Reply #266 on: Nov 05, 2012, 03:17 PM »

Hi Linda,

We'll need Rad to properly answer this - especially re the guilt etc.

What I've presented is the situational extremes that can arise for the Soul relative to what Lucifer represents. This gives a kind of wide experiental framework for Lucifer. But I think Lucifer does tend to represent/operate like this in a way.

For most people, living everyday life doesn't involve such extreme experiences, it is more "moderate" in it's manifestations. We are just moving on slowly and incrementally with our own process which, apart from the simple act of living itself, involves the multitude of desires -both big and (very often) small- that we are acting upon on an ongoing basis. And as I understand it, on their own separating desires don't make anyone evil, neither does treating others "badly".

The way I see it, most people are not attracted to Lucifer as the Agent of Evil. Even if we have done things in the past that are of a heavily separating nature, unkind, or vindicitive and cruel etc, it doesn't mean we have become evil. When we do these things we are moving away from light, but simple darkness in itself is not necessarily evil.

We may not feel good about these things now but often in reality it was a lack of consciousness in a weak moment that was the causitive factor rather than conscious and deliberate intention to engage in evil. I might be wrong but my understanding is this intention for and surrender to evil are needed for our actions to actually be infused with evil.

If guilt is keeping some memories alive then maybe there is some trauma still needing to be healed..?

The very fact that a person moves on to the extent that they can see their actions in the past were not based on good/wise choices, were "wrong", indicates that the growth away from that has already happened. But if something feels it still needs to be healed then some kind of therapy may be needed - it often is. But it doesn't necessarily mean we are going to make the same unwise choices again, it just means we're wanting to heal the trauma.

But Rad will clarify all this hopefully.

blessings Upasika
« Last Edit: Nov 05, 2012, 03:40 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #267 on: Nov 06, 2012, 07:53 AM »

Hi Linda and Upasika,

You are both right. The two core choices that Upasika has presented are indeed correct. They are bottom lines. Yet the the individual Soul may indeed make the types of choices, relative to these core bottom lines, that Linda in asking/ inquiring about. Every case as we know is different because of the natural law of free choice.

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #268 on: Nov 08, 2012, 08:45 AM »

Hi Group,

I would like to know if any of you are still desiring to do this thread. Please let me know.

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #269 on: Nov 08, 2012, 01:16 PM »

Hi Rad - yes very much. I'm just beginning to read through what has been posted here thus far...
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