Pluto's eliptical orbit

[PatriciaW]

I've been wondering about the archetypal meaning of the time Pluto spends in each sign and it's maximum phase reached for people born in each generation. I lifted a listing below from Robert Blascke's old website ( may he rest in peace), that shows the eliptical orbit, which I thought might be useful to everyone.

My question is... on a collective and individual level What does it mean that most of the population will only ever experience Pluto in Transit to itself at critical junctions of evolution by Crescent/First quarter square and only some will ever experience it beyond the gibbous opposition?

In other words, collectively the maximum we can experience from Pluto, while here on earth ( again in transit to itself) is New, Crescent, First 1/4 and Gibbous?

Years in signs

1822 Aries-29
1851 Taurus-31
1882 Gemini-30
1912 Cancer-25
1937 Leo-19
1956 Virgo-15
1971 Libra-12
1983 Scorpio-12
1995 Sagittarius-13
2008 Capricorn-15
2023 Aquarius-20
2043 Pisces-23

Done by decades for estimation purposes. Assuming an 80 year life span maximum phase reached. This of course changes for those born in latter degrees of each sign (in other words this is not exact).

1900-1980-126°
1910-1990-142°
1920-2000-155°
1930-2010-165°
1940-2020-170°
1950-2030-172°
1960-2040-168°
1970-2050-160°
1980-2060-148°
1990-2070-134°
2000-2080-121°
2010-2090-109°
2020-2100-100°


Thanks :-)

[Bradley J]

Hi Patricia,

My question is... on a collective and individual level What does it mean that most of the population will only ever experience Pluto in Transit to itself at critical junctions of evolution by Crescent/First quarter square and only some will ever experience it beyond the gibbous opposition?

In other words, collectively the maximum we can experience from Pluto, while here on earth ( again in transit to itself) is New, Crescent, First 1/4 and Gibbous?

What I understood this to be about is how much one soul can evolve in a lifetime.  The nature of the creation itself, as God has designed a biological clock which sets in motion the rate of body degeneration.  
There are natural limits which most of us, due to consciousness within our current egocentric human identity, can evolve.  The plutonian(soul) metamorphosis is limited by the ego for most of us, thus a Divine timing for life as it is.

Symbolically, at first quarter trine, we would become 'full of' our soul's intention for this life, and if we make it to the gibbous phase, we would be in review and analysis of what we had done with our life.

Considering that it takes 8 primary lifetimes to fully play out the intentions and desires of the soul, this makes sense to me.  

I was just looking - for Yogananda Pluto had reached 74 degrees of orb from natal, which reflects also the slower movement through Taurus centered part of the zodiac. An interesting gateway for Divine timing of soul departure from the body.

I guess it is God's way of making sure we return back to the Divine Source sooner than later.  Must keep evolving!

Regarding the eliptical nature, funny how it slows down most in taurus.



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[PatriciaW]

Thanks Bradley 

I've been working on upcoming lectures so was pondering some things about Pluto in transit. I did find it interesting that considering what a critical juncture the Pluto sq Pluto TR is for most people that the PLuto Taurus and Gemini generations would not experience it at all or very late in their lives. As opposed to say the Pluto Virgos and Libras.

Yes my thinking went, as you say, to the limits of evolution that can be experienced while incarnate. Well thanks again !!!

[Bradley J]

Hi Patricia,

Thanks for the reply.  Your concurring is an appreciated affirmation of what I understood this to be.

Just an aside, I was reflecting today on how the archetypes evolve and change.  For example, at the end of the Piscean Age/Virgo sub age, always do we see the "void" come up when dealing with the Pisces Virgo polarity.  However, we know that this dynamic is highly emphasized in part because of the disconnect of our youth and elders in the cultures which we have created in combination with "Garden of Eden Myth" and other such beliefs permeating our collective consciousness after millenniums of Patriarchal culture. 
However, Wolf taught that we are experiencing the archetypes relative to the times we are in and that in a few hundred years into the Aquarian age the manifestations of these archetypes will be quite different.  One of his purposes, which he spoke of is to assist the purging of the sadomasochistic consciousness from the collective.  I know all of us here also embrace that lead and desire to carry on with this purging.

I realize I'm going far from the point - which was simply to make the point that pluto does not stay fixed in this elliptical orbit.

In the 800's B.C. for example, Aries was the sign which Pluto moved the slowest though.  Interesting how Pluto dragged it's feet in Aries during the Age of Aries!

Here is a direct quote from wikipedia article on the Iron Age:
"Very little is known about human migration of the 12th to 9th centuries BC, but there were significant population movements. The Dorian invasion of Greece is conjectured to have led to the Greek Dark Ages. Groups in Anatolia and the Iranian plateau invaded the territory of the Elamite Empire. The Urartians were displaced by Armenians, and the Cimmerians and the Mushki migrated from the Caucasus into Anatolia. A Thraco-Cimmerian connection links these movements to the Proto-Celtic world of central Europe, leading to the introduction of Iron to Europe and the Celtic expansion to western Europe and the British Isles around 500 BC.
Modern archaeological evidence identifies the start of iron production as taking place in Anatolia around 1200 BC, though some contemporary archaeological evidence points to earlier dates."
Aries and more Aries - also the time of sacred sacrificial lamb. 

In the dance of all of this, we could come back to asking why slow moving in Taurus now? relative to the age and transition of age which we are in?

FYI, if the rate of change for the elliptical orbit of Pluto was similarly constant, Capricorn would have been the slow sign around the start of the Patriarchal era. 

[PatriciaW]

Hi Bradley,

I wasn't aware that Pluto didn't stay fixed in it's eliptical orbit. Or does what you mean relate to the precession of the Equinoxes? That it''s orbit is fixed, but changes in relation to it's relative position to the zodiac?  I noticed also that currently Pluto crosses Neptune's orbit, moving inside it for only 20 years in the signs of Libra,Scorpio,Sag (this happened in 1979-99). Reaching perihelion in it's 'own' sign Scorpio... which i thought was interesting as it related to the archetypal meaning of the water triad and how that is relevant for our consciousness at this time.

[Bradley J]

Hi Patricia,

Oh, yep, that change must be largely to do with earth's wobble(the procession of the equinoxes).
Thanks 

I'll have to meditate on the perihelion neptune crossing symbolically more.  Certainly, if one compares all the Pluto Scorpio generations for the last thousands of years, something is to be said about these generations  of souls with Pluto at perihelion in Scorpio. 
Do you think that this Pluto Scorpio generation would have an even greater intensity of inner conflict and intensified choice making relative to the two antithetical desires that emanate from the soul?
What a perfect time for the spreading of Evolutionary Astrology - where is this generation going to take this material?
Yes indeed, very relevant for our consciousness at this time.

[PatriciaW]

Hi Bradley... What a great conversation, thank you :-) I admire the work you are doing on the long cycles of time and previous ages.... you must have an old Mayan in you :-) LOl I say that because thier concept of time was so much greater than our limited little 24 hour clock.

I guess I have lots of thoughts on Pluto crossing within Neptune's orbit in our time. This is spirit(Neptune) and soul ( Pluto) being brought to the light of day (sun). Personally  I see, even if people are not aware of it there is a division , even in spiritual circles of which is focused on. So the predominate 'new age thought' to me is Spirit and transcendent (Neptune) focused while the more emotionally based approaches (psycho/spiritual- Pluto) are soul focused.  To me the old patriarchal transcendent models of focusing only on spirit to ascend and transcend the emotional wounds is a 'spiritual bypassing'....ie formation of a skipped step.  And those models have been in place for a couple thousand years. The transformation of that is to take, what I see as the more feminine approach, and what I view as Plutonic route, which is to dive deeper into the core of pain and trauma to simultaneously ascend (to actually resurrect those broken, wounded parts of ourselves- Scorpio), thus engaging both spirit and soul...and of course (Cancer-ego).

The fact that spirituality and deep healing seem to be merging and blending in our lifetimes(at least for the cutting edge few) points to this 'new model' for the coming age. EA of course, is a system that incorporates that  as well as a some others. Maybe because we are in it, we don't see how profoundly our  models of 'spirituality' are shifting in this time.

[ari moshe]

Hi Patricia,

Personally  I see, even if people are not aware of it there is a division , even in spiritual circles of which is focused on. So the predominate 'new age thought' to me is Spirit and transcendent (Neptune) focused while the more emotionally based approaches (psycho/spiritual- Pluto) are soul focused.  To me the old patriarchal transcendent models of focusing only on spirit to ascend and transcend the emotional wounds is a 'spiritual bypassing'....ie formation of a skipped step.  And those models have been in place for a couple thousand years.

That was beautifully said.

[Elen]

Hi Patricia,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in.  What you said was awesome!  Yesterday I was totally hit over the head on this whole matter when reading Sutra 2 of The Holy Science.  Have had this for a year or 2 but have only now felt able to open it up and take it in.  Sutra 2 is where he talks about Chit - Omniscient FEELING, "which makes this world conscious."  He then writes in the next paragraph "....and the Feeling Omniscient as his Consciousness, Chetana, that enjoys, Bhokta."  (This is all on p. 22).  When our habit and conditioning is to suppress or bypass feeling, this feeling gets lodged in our body, preventing the experience of connection with Source, ie, preventing consciousness....  That's what struck me anyway.....

Thanks again!  (And sorry, I know it's not directly related to your initial question about Pluto......)

Peace,
Elen

[Linda]

I guess I have lots of thoughts on Pluto crossing within Neptune's orbit in our time. This is spirit (Neptune) and soul (Pluto) being brought to the light of day (sun). Personally  I see, even if people are not aware of it there is a division, even in spiritual circles of which is focused on. So the predominate 'new age thought' to me is Spirit and transcendent (Neptune) focused while the more emotionally based approaches (psycho/spiritual - Pluto) are soul focused.  To me the old patriarchal transcendent models of focusing only on spirit to ascend and transcend the emotional wounds is a 'spiritual bypassing'....ie formation of a skipped step.  And those models have been in place for a couple thousand years. The transformation of that is to take, what I see as the more feminine approach, and what I view as Plutonic route, which is to dive deeper into the core of pain and trauma to simultaneously ascend (to actually resurrect those broken, wounded parts of ourselves - Scorpio), thus engaging both spirit and soul...and of course (Cancer - ego).

The fact that spirituality and deep healing seem to be merging and blending in our lifetimes (at least for the cutting edge few) points to this 'new model' for the coming age. EA of course, is a system that incorporates that  as well as a some others. Maybe because we are in it, we don't see how profoundly our models of 'spirituality' are shifting in this time.

Hi Patricia,

I do see it!  Recently I came to the conclusion that my Soul would suffer a skipped-step if I suppressed the feminine in any way.  Pluto and Neptune are now both in feminine signs:  Capricorn and Pisces.  Your above message is so pertinent right now, to me personally, because I'm just coming out of a Neptune opposition Pluto transit!  The see-saw - the wild swinging back and forth of the pendulum from Spirituality to Soul - has been exhausting, but has lead to integration and knowledge.  (I can see exactly why Libra, oppositions, correlate to "extremes.")  I've been going deeply into both sides and throwing off excesses from both sides.  The Neptune/Pluto orbits encompass the water trinity - Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces - all three necessary for evolution or ascension to take place.  Just as Pluto was demoted, do they think they can suppress this evolutionary force - no way.  Pluto is unstoppable.   

Thanks for this discussion.

Linda

[Bradley J]

Hi Patricia and everyone,

I've been wondering about the archetypal meaning of the time Pluto spends in each sign and it's maximum phase reached for people born in each generation. I lifted a listing below from Robert Blascke's old website ( may he rest in peace), that shows the eliptical orbit, which I thought might be useful to everyone.

My question is... on a collective and individual level What does it mean that most of the population will only ever experience Pluto in Transit to itself at critical junctions of evolution by Crescent/First quarter square and only some will ever experience it beyond the gibbous opposition?

In other words, collectively the maximum we can experience from Pluto, while here on earth ( again in transit to itself) is New, Crescent, First 1/4 and Gibbous?

Today, I was recalling the early Bible stories of how long people use to live.  Began to wonder if God adjusted the lifespan at some point?  A little pituitary tweak?
I mean, if folks were living on and on, yet limited by their egos for centuries, maybe it was to speed up evolution to shorten the life span.  God must be an Aries - "Bring my children home now!" (relative on the now)
Just a thought that popped in my mind today.
Hope this is not too far off the EA topic; really just getting more at your(Patricia's) initial question which is about why, at maximum we only experience so much of a Pluto cycle in a lifetime.

Thanks everyone

[PatriciaW]

Thanks Ellen for jumping in and sharing your thoughts. That makes perfect sense  the same understanding is in some somatic psychological schools of thought. That all unexpressed emotion condenses in the body. So yes anything condensed becomes a block, and as JWG says "Anything repressed becomes distorted" So as you point out, it becomes doubly difficult to deal with, as it blocks naturally flowing life force that allows one to be connected and then there is the distorted behavior also.

Hi Linda, What a great personal and self-experiential revelation :-) Well Pluto being demoted itself, especially by the 'scientific' (male left-brain dominated) community, might show how that collective deals with their own evolutionary impulses (sweep it under the carpet comes to mind)!!!!

LOL Bradley... yes very Aries " Evolve damn it"!!! Well and compared to the amount of souls on the planet now to biblical times I would assume that also increases evolutionary pressure.

[Linda]

yes very Aries " Evolve damn it"!!! 

[Elen]

Thanks for your confirming thoughts, Patricia!