Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: THE ARCHETYPES OF MASOCHIMS, SADISM, AND 'PERFECTION'  (Read 2350 times)
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« on: Apr 13, 2012, 07:25 AM »

Hi All,

The next subject/topic from the old message board that Adina Mather has put together for us is on Masochism, Sadism, and 'Perfection'. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. God Bless, Rad

***********************************************************************

                                          The Archetypes of Masochism, Sadism, and Perfection
                                                     Seeking Understanding of Masochism & Sadism


                                                                      Masochism Signature

 In a recent reading of a client who carries the pathology of masochism, I did what every aspiring student does during the reading, I told your best material. I told her to buy a white hat with a red cross on it. She understood all too well.

My questions on masochism are when did it begin as an archetype? Was it the beginning or the recent Pisces age? Once an archetype is established in consciousness, it seems it would not be possible to be eliminated entirely, perhaps just modified. Will the Aquarian age spell the ending of masochism’s tight grip on humanity? Also, it seems to me that hidden beneath every masochist is a sadist and vice versa. Can someone contain just one side of this polarity within consciousness? Does the masochist just project the sadist on "the other" and vice versa so that the wicked game can go on?

I have heard battered women tell stories of how they knew just the right buttons to push to provoke a beating. Clearly this is so they can feel they are atoning, but during the "provoking" are they not living the role of sadist? In the case of beatings, it is so horrible that most everyone agrees the masochist is the victim, even usually the sadist that commonly states afterward that it will never happen again, but all too often does. What is this overwhelming need to be a victim even if it means being beaten, as in the case of the abused wife etc.?
   
(A):  Masochism essentially began relative to the transition from the matriarchy to the patriarchy. This began in 6500 BCE and was essentially completed 1000 years later. The invention of patriarchal truths, starting with the 'perfect god,' is the origin of it, reinforced by many man-created religions since then. The next five hundred years correlates to the ending of the Piscean age, thus this 'archetype' will be removed--thru necessity, not collective 'enlightenment.' In most cases masochists do have a sadistic flip side that can be triggered relative to circumstances, but as a reaction to their own masochism. Sadists can also have a flip side, but their masochism is also triggered relative to their own sadism. Some folks can be totally masochistic, some sadistic. Witness the I-Ching: one extreme: total black, the other, total white with all combos therein. This is how we should view this.

                                       South Node & Our Patterns

(Q): I had a reading yesterday where the client had the south node in Pisces in the fifth house, Neptune in Scorpio in the twelfth, and Pluto in Virgo in the tenth. Her pattern in relationships is that of the savior. She told me that she knows she needs to break this pattern, but that she worries about hurting the feelings of her partners and/or friends. It seemed obvious that her real fear is of losing the acknowledgment and feedback from being a savior. I told her this and she went into overload. I had to quit the conversation so she could digest this (Venus in Capricorn).

With the north node in Virgo in the eleventh house, and the ruler Mercury in Aquarius in the fourth, I see the solution as learning discrimination (Virgo) about who to associate with (eleventh house) in the process of liberating (Mercury in Aquarius) from her family patterns (fourth house). I have become aware of how symbolic her family dynamics are, and as a result how symbolic all our family dynamics are. Have you found it helpful to look deeply into the family dynamics of a chart, say much like it is important to look deeply into past lives? I am finding all the symbology of past lives is replayed in the early years of life. Also have you found that by showing the similarities of past life and early childhood, that the client more deeply integrates the reading?

It is almost comical how these individual patterns play within the development of the species and ultimately the creation. I am finding an overall compassion for each of us. We seem like rats running through the same maze looking for cheese where none ever existed. I, for one, am sick of the Virgo Sub-age patterns and eagerly await the new can of worms in the Aquarian age.

(A): Yes, that is right, but then again, the question becomes why that family? The underlying issue in this women is masochism and her inner confusion between 'spiritual masochism' versus psychopathologic. A good book that you could recommend to her is called: Masochism: A Jungian View written by a woman named Lyn Cowan. It is the very best.

                                     Pluto Conjunct South Node

(Q): In this chart Pluto is at 22 Virgo, as is the south node and the Midheaven. Jupiter and Uranus are part of this stellium and sextile Neptune/Mars in the twelfth house and moon/Sun/Mercury in Cancer in the eighth. The only challenging aspect is Mars in Sagittarius in opposition to Venus in Gemini in the sixth house. My thoughts are that she is repeating past life dynamics that limit her expression within society, her career. There is, perhaps, a gender issue and a need for emotional maturity, self-reliance and breaking away from maternal manipulation and guilt. In other words, perhaps she would use her gender, sex and emotional manipulation in order to get ahead, and in order to fully appreciate her own capacity of power she will need to discover her own resources from within. Or because the aspects are so harmonious, maybe she just skates thru easily because of her gender and ability to know what others need. Any insight?

(A):  The underlying issue is an accumulation of guilt and a simultaneous need to atone equally for the guilt through the pathology of masochism, which is then the cause of the self-undermining behavior. The solution is for the person to radically alter their inner relationship to themselves, to reprogram the subconscious wherein lay the deep, internalized messages equaling the guilt and thus her inner relationship to herself.

                                       Breaking Patterns of Abuse   

(Q): I too have a question regarding breaking patterns of abuse. The client has severed a relationship and is now experiencing astral invasions of a sexual nature (rape) from the ex-partner, with these occurring repeatedly. On every level the other person has been warned to stop. The trauma for the client is the excitation that has occurred throughout the physical body, despite her desire and intent to not be engaged in this way, and it is interesting to note that this is a similar theme that occurred as a child and in certain situations as an adult. She is aware of this pattern now and has memories of the previous lifetimes. Is this awareness of a pattern enough to break the Karma with this other person? Are there other methods to help? She stated that once the awareness came and she actively and with all intent engaged in "purification rituals," the stronger the astral activities and invasions became. Is there some other advice that I could give her?

(A):  Well, in this case the causative factor for her still being 'receptive' to this ex-partner's intrusions psychically is based on her own unresolved sexual desires; i.e. the fact that she feels excitement relative to these intrusions. So this is the first thing to point out to her--that it becomes a situation where the excitement reflects unresolved sexual desires. Essentially the excitement based on those sexual distortions is a reflection of her own unresolved masochism, the need to be punished for a build up of guilt and atonement for that guilt. So the underlying issue is for her to acknowledge this and to determine, to desire, to purge the existing pathology of masochism first.

After that, if so desired, the next step is to perform the 'Agni' ritual. This is a gig where she would first visualize a fire in her third eye, and then project whatever images of this ex-partner/creep into the fire, and to keep doing this until no more images appear. At the same time she projects the thought, '”I forgive you from the point of view of accepting the responsibility for my own actions,” until there is nothing left to project. At that point, she would have severed the karmic umbilical cord that has kept them connected. So next time around the person would appear as an acquaintance versus an intimate. Also, whatever objects she may have left over from their connection, i.e. pictures, presents, whatever, should either be buried, tossed into salt water, the ocean, or burned by fire.

                                                   Age of Martyrdom

(Q): If as you say, conditional suffering does not produce growth, why would God’ess have given Jesus the inner direction to sacrifice himself in order to usher in the age of martyrdom? Why would it be necessary to have an age of martyrdom when religious suffering doesn’t promote growth? Is it because God’ess him/herself is not perfect?

(A): I did not say that conditional suffering does not produce growth. I did say that there is a difference between “natural” suffering versus suffering that is not necessary due to the nature of any system that is not in alignment with natural law – suffering that is caused by moralities determined by religions that have nothing to do with the real God’ess or natural law. I guess one could grow thru this kind of suffering, but in the end, any soul that does so arrives back to a place in their consciousness that becomes aware of the difference between natural law and that which is not. But at that point the soul would say to itself, “Geez, that was all so unnecessary.” So such ‘growth’ in the end would arrive at that place.

The age of martyrdom creating and dictating figures like Jesus became necessary because of the collective choices that began at 6500 BCE, which signaled the time of the emerging Patriarchy. Remember that God’ess is the origin of the natural law of free choice and free will, and it is those increasingly distorted choices leading to superstructures of religion, all in reaction to the natural feminine principle, Lilith, that then became the cause of the age of martyrdom. The intent from God’ess in so doing was to induce the awareness within people of how stupid they are when they kill a soul permeated by God’ess—the horror of the fact. And it is in this horror that people ‘learn’ after the fact.

                                  Karma From The Holocaust

(Q): I'm currently reading a book on IBM's role in the Holocaust, which brings me to ask about the collective karma of those involved. What is the general karmic fate of the men and women who carried out Hitler's orders or went along with the Third Reich?

(A): There is no 'general' karma. The only karma would be to those who actually 'knew' of Hitler's intent. The karma for those who did know in some way correlates to 'the end justifies the means', gross, sadistic, evil, misuse of power, the karma of deception and manipulation, the karma created thru a consciousness that feels it is superior to others, and so on .

(Q): Is there a general karmic fate for those who worked for corporations (like IBM) who helped to carry out Hitler's regime?

(A): Again, only for those who actually knew of Hitler's intent. To my knowledge only a few within the corporate super structure did know.

(Q): What was the evolutionary purpose of the millions of Jews who were killed? Were they as martyrs to warn the world of what Evil can accomplish if left unchecked?
 
(A): Yes.

(Q): I am one-quarter German by heritage. My paternal grandfather and his parents, partially of Jewish decent, fled to America before Hitler could target them specifically. How would such lineage figure into my karmic/cosmic mission, if at all? (Note: I am a reformed masochist, with your help!).

(A): That, in fact, is the intent: to purge the masochism.

                        Re-humiliation Phase and Healing Masochism

 (Q): In your teaching on phases you comment on the gibbous phase where we are setting up humiliations of our ego so that our soul can have greater influence within our consciousness. Could you comment on how that relates with the urge to heal in ways we set ourselves up for masochism or its meaner polarity, sadism? Would it be correct to think that the difference between masochism and re-humiliation is that one is concealing rage and the other is seeking true humility? Could you comment or expand on this a bit?

(A): The intention in the gibbous phase is to purify the Soul from egocentric identifications with itself--to know, experience, and understand that the Source or God’ess is the origin of all things--thus the necessary experience of egocentric humiliations that can occur thru many doors and circumstances. Of itself this phase, via natural law, has nothing to do with masochism or sadism. Those kinds of dynamics occur in a patriarchal reality; yet when they do occur, the intention within the phase is to purify or heal those kinds of psychological dynamics because they are, in fact, not natural to the human consciousness. Thus the soul creates whatever circumstantial realities necessary in order for such a healing or purification to occur. Rage as a result of masochism can certainly be part of that.

(Q): Thank you. This is very helpful. I can see the self- healing and also the counseling applications of this. This would also explain why rediscovering the dignity and blessedness of our Goddess connection and natural law would be healing to those habits of masochism or sadism.

                                            Self-destructive Behavior
 
(Q): In Tape One of the Correspondence Course, the Mars/Pluto opposition was said to be one signature for rape or physical, emotional, sexual abuse in a chart. Is there a predominant signature for self-destructive behavior? I don't think that would be exactly the same thing as masochism (although it is linked, I would think). I'm talking more about something like getting good advice and not taking it--even if the results are dire if you don't, and you know it. Or eating too much when you want to lose weight, or drinking too much at an important meeting, that kind of self-destructive.

(A): Self-destructive behavior is a function of masochism--no more, no less--thus the signature of masochism will always be present in these cases.

                                                Masochism Signature

(Q): I'm wondering if I haven't missed something in the reading or the tapes (currently on tape four). I have searched your library of past posts and haven't found this mentioned. Earlier I asked about self-destructive behavior, and you answered that it all boils down to masochism. To further that discussion: Is there a signature of masochism? So far, in the tapes, you've discussed how it correlates to Virgo, and the Virgo/Pisces axis. So would the "signature" be a "weak ego" as you discussed in the early tapes, with specific planets in Virgo/Pisces, sixth/twelfth or Venus/Neptune aspects?
 
(A):  Yes, but there are other signatures; for example, Saturn square or opposed Venus, Saturn square or opposed the moon, a strong Capricorn signature, or a dominant tenth house pattern.

(Q): What other factors would be common to this? Do you get into this further in the classes?

(A): Any signature which correlates with 'guilt and atonement. We get further into the archetype when the tapes get into chart analysis, and specifically the relationship analysis.

                                                 Woman's Chart

(Q): I would like you to help me amplify the chart of a woman that I am working with and to check my conclusions. She has all planets in the upper hemisphere and a very strong emphasis in earth (Virgo stellium in the eighth house, moon and ascendant in Capricorn, Saturn at 15 Scorpio right on the Midheaven). Her Pluto in Leo is intercepted in the seventh (conjunct Mars, Venus and Sun in Virgo in the eighth, in that order). Her south node is in Gemini in the fifth, ruled by Mercury in Virgo in the eighth, and square the nodes within a degree.

I am particularly interested in the south node ruler squaring the nodes, with its resolution through its own node. This woman is first stage spiritual, has lived in a spiritual community for the last 25 years, and her second child is getting ready to leave home. I read the Pluto signature as portraying her capacity to live vicariously through her children, to make herself an extension of the destiny of her children, and to be an ultimate responsible parent (single parent), but finding it very difficult to identify and meet her own needs in relationship. With Mercury squaring the nodes in Virgo, I see her trapped by her own ideas of spiritual perfection and the need to conform to the status quo of the spiritual community (twelfth house Capricorn moon), and hesitant to act on her ideas because of excessive self-doubt and ferocious self-criticism. I don't get how a consistent development of the south node is going to free her to actualize the essential freedom to discover her unique expression symbolized by her Pluto polarity point and north node. An additional query concerns Mars/Venus new phase to Pluto and balsamic to the Sun. Would this correlate to a woman who would consciously see herself (Sun) as pursuing a relationship with the infinite and timeless, but on an unconscious level (Pluto) was desiring to initiate all sorts of very earthly relationships. How might you discuss this dynamic with someone?

(A): Your observations seem to be correct. The resolution node in Gemini, with the ruler of that Mercury in Virgo in the eighth relative to Mars, Venus, and the Sun, is a skipped step symbol, which means that until those steps are recovered that the spiritual development of the women will be inhibited. The skipped steps concern intimate relationships, which have been orientated to by her thru the pathology of masochism; thus creating lives of intense abuse, betrayal, abandonment, use, manipulation, and sexual abuse, with this being the trigger to avoiding solving the intimate relationship issue/ skipped steps. She recovered some of those skipped steps by having the children that she has (fifth house). These children, of course, being children/souls that have come thru her before in which the dynamics of being a parent to these children was not completed. So the compensation for the skipped step (north node in Sagittarius - compensation) is to try to 'liberate' her soul from earth completely (moon in Capricorn) to avoid what needs to be recovered.

So the resolution node is just that; she has to go 'backward,' so to speak, first before she can move forward. This means becoming successful in an intimate relationship, which then demands that she take a deep soul search into the underlying dynamics that caused the masochism to manifest in the first place, and then to heal those dynamics before the intimate relationship thing can be successful. This is how I would discuss the whole thing with her.
Logged
Wendy
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 452


« Reply #1 on: Apr 14, 2012, 06:26 PM »

Hi All,

The next subject/topic from the old message board that Adina Mather has put together for us is on Masochism, Sadism, and 'Perfection'. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. God Bless, Rad

***********************************************************************

                                          The Archetypes of Masochism, Sadism, and Perfection
                                                     Seeking Understanding of Masochism & Sadism


                                                                 
                                            Masochism Signature

(Q): I'm wondering if I haven't missed something in the reading or the tapes (currently on tape four). I have searched your library of past posts and haven't found this mentioned. Earlier I asked about self-destructive behavior, and you answered that it all boils down to masochism. To further that discussion: Is there a signature of masochism? So far, in the tapes, you've discussed how it correlates to Virgo, and the Virgo/Pisces axis. So would the "signature" be a "weak ego" as you discussed in the early tapes, with specific planets in Virgo/Pisces, sixth/twelfth or Venus/Neptune aspects?
 
(A):  Yes, but there are other signatures; for example, Saturn square or opposed Venus, Saturn square or opposed the moon, a strong Capricorn signature, or a dominant tenth house pattern.


Also, if one has a masochism signature, implied by Pluto in Virgo, plus Pisces planets, 6th/12th house nodes, Saturn-Venus, Saturn-Moon and strong Capricorn/10th house patterns, how does a soul go about managing such a strong tendency for self-inflicted tendencies. 

It seems a soul that takes so much on in one life, may be biting off more than can be chewed...is there a way to tell what stage the soul is in regarding how many lives they have been attempting to liberate from this pattern (I believe I read this somewhere on the forum before)?  Does that have to do with planetary phases, i.e., Pluto/Mars?

Also I am grateful for the information about the book with a Jungian view on Masochism.

Thank you Rad.

All the best,
Wendy

Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« Reply #2 on: Apr 15, 2012, 08:18 AM »

Hi Wendy,

"Also, if one has a masochism signature, implied by Pluto in Virgo, plus Pisces planets, 6th/12th house nodes, Saturn-Venus, Saturn-Moon and strong Capricorn/10th house patterns, how does a soul go about managing such a strong tendency for self-inflicted tendencies. "

*************

By understanding the causes of it. If that can be understood then the awareness as to what to do about it can occur. The next step of course is then to apply to solutions to the person's actual life. That is the real challenge because all to often such Soul's keep finding ways to undermine themselves even though they know the way through. And, typically, the lead word our of their mouth, or in their thinking, that demonstrates this is the word BUT.

******************

"It seems a soul that takes so much on in one life, may be biting off more than can be chewed...is there a way to tell what stage the soul is in regarding how many lives they have been attempting to liberate from this pattern (I believe I read this somewhere on the forum before)?  Does that have to do with planetary phases, i.e., Pluto/Mars?"

*******************

Mainly by looking that the nature of the aspects to the relevant planets involved in the masochistic signature by way of the orbs relative to exact aspects: either waning or waxing relative to the exact degree of an aspect.

****************

God Bless, Rad
Logged
cat777
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 262


« Reply #3 on: Apr 15, 2012, 09:48 AM »

Hi Rad and Group,

I have not have time to read through all of the new topics closely this week but have been skim reading them.  Today's posts made me wonder if all masochism is necessarily a “bad thing.”  I started reading from the beginning and at some point came across the term “spiritual masochism.”  I searched this term to see if there is any further information about it and found this (in a Chiron thread):

“JWG made a critical distinction relative to the archetype of masochism because it can have two distinct causes. One cause is what he, and others, call spiritual masochism wherein the Soul is consciously and with intent 'sacrificing' it's Soul for the benefit of others no matter what the personal cost to the Soul may be. The other cause is of course rooted in the need to atone for a sense of guilt because the Soul feels within itself that it has done something wrong which then necessitates the need to atone for that guilt.  “

I am wondering about the part about the “personal cost to the soul.”  If the soul's evolutionary intention is to “sacrifice” why would this result in a personal cost to the soul?  What kind of cost?  If it was a purposeful intention and desire and properfully fulfilled, wouldn't it be helping the soul?  Or does it cause psychological/emotional issues in the here and now which are the price the soul has to pay by having to overcome them in future lives? I suppose it depends on the soul's state of evolution and karmic signatures but am just wondering outloud.  I suppose doing so would cause both good karma and new issues which would need to be addressed later?

Thanks for posting such an interesting topic!

cat
Logged
cat777
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 262


« Reply #4 on: Apr 15, 2012, 10:16 AM »

Hi again,

I was just googling around and came across a book that looks like it might be helpful in relation to understanding masochism and power:

The Doormat Syndrome: Learning About the Correct Use of Power

Lynne Namka, Ed. D. (C) 1989


http://www.angriesout.com/doormat.htm
Logged
Steve
Admin
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 566


« Reply #5 on: Apr 15, 2012, 11:59 AM »

Cat

For two examples of "personal cost to a Soul" that took that about as far as it can go, think of the lives of Jesus and Martin Luther King.  The "personal cost to the Soul" was, the mission led to the end of their physical lives. That is a pretty high personal cost.

It was not an issue of whether those experiences helped that Soul.  The mission was to help other Souls, no matter what would happen to them as a result.  Their Souls gained whatever spiritual merit is associated with what they did.  But their underlying motivation was not to advance themselves but to do the right thing, no matter the personal cost to themselves. Whatever  spiritual merit they earned through this was the side effect, not the primary intention. Natural law is, you see people suffering, in pain, in need, you try to help.  That's how life is put together (in non-patriarchal realities). That can often get you in trouble in patriarchal realities, and that is the personal cost to the Soul.
Steve
Logged

cat777
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 262


« Reply #6 on: Apr 15, 2012, 02:22 PM »

Hi Steve,

Good points as usual.  I wasn't really thinking that the soul would make a sacrifice by coming here in order to advance itself but just figured in doing so it would have something to gain. I wasn't really thinking that the Soul's intentions were to do so for its own good.  A good point to understand in any case.  As for "personal cost to the soul" those are two excellent examples.  I think a fault in my earlier thinking is that I was distinguishing between "personal cost to the soul" and "personal cost to the individual" as though those are two different things.   I didn't even think about death being a price one would pay and it obviously is.  Death is close to being the ultimate "personal cost." The only thing worse I can think of would be souls who lose their way and make a contract with evil.  It seems that would be the ultimate "personal cost to the soul" but likely doesn't apply to "spiritual masochism" as it seems that a soul would likely be highly evolved to make the type of sacrifice we are discussing and not likely to go down that path.  But who knows,  I am sure it can happen as anything is possible. In regard to "spiritual masochism" I was trying to think of examples myself after I posted.  Mother Teresa came to mind.  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.  I always appreciate your point of view and always gain from it.

****An after thought:  when I was contemplating this earlier, I think I was thinking about "personal cost to the soul" in relation to EA charts rather than traumatic events like death.  I was wondering if that meant skipped steps and that sort of thing.  The technical aspects of the chart rather than the experience of the human being.  This is a good reality check!
« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2012, 02:29 PM by cat777 » Logged
cat777
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 262


« Reply #7 on: Apr 15, 2012, 03:02 PM »

Hi,

Back again with new thoughts to ponder.  In the case of the Virgo and Pisces archetype, we have both humility and masochism.  When thinking about the difference, at least in regard to "spiritual masochism" I started to wonder about the example of Jesus.  Was his dying on the cross humility or masochism?  What is the difference?  So I did a search looking for a comparison of the two words in the context we are using and found this:

Quote
To live in humility is to live always in total confidence of God’s love, protection, and guidance and therefore to have no concern for yourself when others insult you—or praise you. Secure in God’s love, you don’t have to base your identity on whether or not others acknowledge you.

In masochism, on the other hand, you invite others to insult you because, as a psychological defense against the pain of deep emotional wounds, you take unconscious pleasure in being demeaned in the secret hope that you will somehow, someday, earn someone’s admiration for your willingness to endure painful abuse.

Therefore, we can define false humility as pride in your own masochism. Consequently, whereas false humility burdens the soul, genuine humility brings enlightenment to the soul and frees it from all that would obstruct its service to God.


Are these definitions valid in relation to "spiritual masochism?"  They make sense in terms of masochism in general, but if applied to "spiritual masochism" then it seems that Jesus is not an example of "spiritual masochism" as much as "spiritual humiliation" if there is such a thing. Just another thing to think about.  Deeper and deeper we go  :-)
Logged
Steve
Admin
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 566


« Reply #8 on: Apr 15, 2012, 04:06 PM »

hi Cat

when I was contemplating this earlier, I think I was thinking about "personal cost to the soul" in relation to EA charts rather than traumatic events like death.  I was wondering if that meant skipped steps and that sort of thing.  The technical aspects of the chart rather than the experience of the human being.  This is a good reality check!

EA is about real life, real human choices leading to real life consequences.  Charts are pieces of paper, an abstract system created to reflect what goes on in real life.  It is easy to get lost in the intellectual abstract system (chart) and forget we are dealing with living Souls and bodies and behaviors/choices and their consequences to those Souls/bodies.  As the EA astrologer learns to correlate chart symbols to actual human behaviors they begin to see how powerful this EA system is.  Skipped steps and other chart symbols EA describes are the result of human behaviors. To understand them we have to determine what are that Soul's behavior patterns that have resulted in skipped steps.  In the case of Obama, for example, it was stated his skipped step was due to the interruption in his life as Lincoln - he paid a personal cost for doing a difficult thankless task by being assassinated.  Thus through a circumstance he had no control over he was left with an incomplete assignment that translated into a skipped step.  Yogananda said that Lincoln had been a yogi who had been appalled by the reality that humans sold other humans into slavery - he wanted to do something about this, so he took on the life of Lincoln.  That is an example is spiritual masochism - he had a desire on a very grand scale, and the Soul was willing to do what it took to try to advance human evolutionary progress through his efforts.  Such desires come from the Soul - they do not go away just because the body dies.  Thus within Obama, in this life, the same desires remain - they can not go away until they are fulfilled because they emanate from the Soul.  There you can see that such desires can keep someone coming back for a long long time because they require very large changes in mass human consciousness, which is beyond the control of a single individual.

Quote
...The only thing worse I can think of would be souls who lose their way and make a contract with evil.  It seems that would be the ultimate "personal cost to the soul" but likely doesn't apply to "spiritual masochism" as it seems that a soul would likely be highly evolved to make the type of sacrifice we are discussing and not likely to go down that path.  But who knows,  I am sure it can happen as anything is possible. In regard to "spiritual masochism" I was trying to think of examples myself after I posted.  Mother Teresa came to mind.  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.  I always appreciate your point of view and always gain from it.

Spiritual masochism is in the more evolved Souls, the ones who consciously make personal sacrifices for the good of others and the collective, because they truly see themselves as one with that collective, not in terms of believing that is true but from personal experience.   Making a contract with evil is never ever going to be a form of spiritual masochism.  Quite the opposite.

  Jeffrey's point was spiritual masochism is something quite different than the more typical masochistic patterns he taught about, whose foundations are rooted in patriarchal distortions of actual life reality - guilt and the desire to atone for it.  A true "spiritual masochist" is not acting, in their choices, from guilt and a need to atone for it, but from a place of knowing they are simply doing what they are inwardly asked to do, no matter how that outcome may affect them on the human level.  There are very few true spiritual masochists on earth in comparison to the number of practicing masochists Jeffrey taught about where the root cause is guilt/distortion.  A spiritual masochist might also have some tendencies of personal masochism.  But they are not carrying out their mission because of an inner sense of guilt and a need to atone but from an inner place of knowing they are being asked to do something regardless of personal consequence, which means it is the right thing for them to do.  They ACCEPT the consequences. They are not making any personal sacrifice that may be required as a subconscious attempt at atonement.

Mother Teresa is an interesting case and evidently not on the inside what she appeared to be on the outside.  There is a recent thread on this board about her chart and life.  If you haven't seen it you can use the search box and search for Mother Teresa.  It might give you additional insight.

For a current example read about the mayor of Newark NJ, Corey Booker, who was just injured after he rushed into a building that was on fire because someone was screaming for help.  He sacrificed safety for himself because to him it was the right thing to do to try to help another who was in need.  He was not trying to atone for anything, he was trying to do what was right.  That is a form of spiritual masochism.  We all have a survival instinct.  You have to override a lot of fight or flight reaction to risk your own safety to help another in a building that is burning down.  That is another definition of personal cost.
Steve
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« Reply #9 on: Apr 16, 2012, 07:55 AM »

continuing ............

                                                                   Garden of Eden Myth

(Q): I just wanted to get a more refined perspective on this. I understand that through the church’s manipulation of this story women are presented as a spiritual temptation rooted in sensuality, and the myth also creates the archetype of sadomasochism- guilt and anger, and the need to atone and/or get revenge. The reason why I am unclear on this is that in Yogananda's Gita commentary on the subject, he presents it in a spiritual light where everything takes on symbolic meaning. For example, the "apple" of sex on the tree of nerves situated "in the middle of the garden" of the body, God said: "Do not try to have physical sex experience, lest you die (lose your present consciousness of immortality)." He also says the bodies of these first humans were therefore the result of both evolution (generally evolved from the patterns of animals) and special creation of God at the beginning of the human race. The original prototypes of man and woman had no sexual members until they aroused sex nerves physically instead of uplifting them toward God. My feeling on this is that I think I understand when you say the sexual instinct is natural in humans to mean that in the beginning, before the ‘fall’ there was no illusion of gross materialism, and tantric, soul-to-soul connection was made, and the energy was used to reach God instead of satisfy desire like animals. Or Yogananda's commentary can be viewed as perspective gained when finally reaching the level of natural celibacy. Please let me know how all of this ties in together.

(A): The apparent riddle is simple. The natural law in all souls is dual desires: the separating desire, and the desire to unite with our source--God. Thus, thru sexuality this duality exists. So what this means is to use the natural sexual instinct or desire to unite with God--to experience the God/Goddess within ourselves and our partner--and to unite with that inner connection with each in such a way that the act of sex is used to merge with God. It is only through the separating desire that we forget God in general, and especially thru the passion of sex that is just sex without a connection to God. There was never a time in which the human did not have sexual organs, and there never was a 'real downfall.' This was a function of use of the Garden of Eden myth--to cause guilt in men and women and thus gain control of them thru the religion itself.

                                                                  Abuser/Abused

(Q): I am often looking at charts in which there is clearly a strong indication of past-life sadomasochism and power struggles. It is sometimes hard for me to tell (from the chart alone) if the soul in question was responsible for acts of sadistic torture to others in the past, or if it was on the receiving end of this sort of treatment, or both. What I am curious to know is if you make your determination of this by observing and questioning the individual, or if you can reliably tell based on the chart alone. 

(A): Yes, it is possible to make such determinations. But at first you will need to, over time, make observations via various clients so that you will be able to know who is who through the correlations. For those who carry the simultaneous signature of both sadism and masochism, you will always find a psychological signature of a 'passive/aggressive' type; for example, a moon in Pisces opposed by Mars in Virgo.

                                                            Spiritual Boundaries

(Q): I have a question regarding boundaries. When you discuss the evolutionary stages of development, I understand you to say that in the spiritual stage (Neptune) there are no boundaries. You refer to the transit of Neptune through Capricorn and the psychological buzz around boundaries. I want to see if I understand the functioning of psychological boundaries through the evolutionary stages. In the consensus stage (Saturn) the boundary contains all the beliefs, opinions, and values of any particular culture and excludes all the beliefs, opinions and values of any others--heretics, primitives, foreigners, infidels, etc.
During the individuated stage (Uranus), the boundary now attempts to separate and distinguish the emerging individual from the consensus mass, based on the ultimately illusory fear of being re-absorbed into the unconscious collective.

Now, in the spiritual stage (Neptune), say the first stage, it seems to me that there may be a certain naive and masochistic orientation that wants to "take on the sins of the world," so to speak, and has no true appreciation of personal limitation (another boundary). As the soul progressively exhausts its separating desires, it must surely abandon its desire to separate itself from other souls, via boundaries, and to merge at a soul level. One question: at this level, how does the soul respond to the projections and unconscious emotional expectations of souls in other evolutionary conditions? Is it no longer a matter of Saturnian boundaries, but rather of total Uranian detachment (i.e. not taking it personally)? Can you help me to gain clarity as my understanding starts to wobble?
 
(A): It is unfortunately very common in a patriarchal reality for those who have evolved into the spiritual state to be the recipient of projections from others. In the spiritual state, however, those who receive such projections understand that such a thing 'comes with the turf', particularly in a Pisces Age which, in a patriarchal reality, correlates with the age of martyrdom. And in a patriarchal reality during an age of martyrdom it is necessary for those who make such projections, in the end, to realize exactly the damage they have done to those who receive such projections. And when that realization kicks in, the deepest kind of grief and personal horror sets in, which is necessary for them to realize the nature of their own projections, which essentially emanate from their own subconscious. The degree of evolution within the spiritual state correlates to what degree such a soul can remain totally detached versus feeling at times a degree of personal hurt.   

                                                                    Yods and Masochism

(Q): Would we be choosing yods in our natal charts in order to bring natural humility to the separating urge?

(A): The issue is more about humility to the current ego structure of the soul.

(Q):  Would the yod provide the inner and outer experiences of this on the two inconjuncts?

(A): From an ego point of view, yes.

(Q): Does this have any relationship with the Soul wanting to heal the not-natural humility, equaling masochism, of the conditioning under man-made religions?

(A): It can, yes.
 
(Q): How does the religious masochism of Christianity fit in?

(A): The origin of this is Jesus himself: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

(Q): Is it true that Jesus took on a lot of other peoples’ karma and intended to teach love as well as the truth about the immortal soul and resurrection?

(A): Yes.

(Q): Then was it the Church that made this a masochistic thing?

(A): Not as such. The origin of this masochism is within the roots of Judaism: the Garden of Eden myth, as well as the doctrine of 'original sin' in which the assumption is that humans separated themselves from God’ess; thus the implied guilt and need to atone for it. Relative to the Church itself, real masochism en mass began in the third century in Rome relative to the wholesale persecution of the Christians of that time by Nero. Christians en mass at that time were willing to be crucified or otherwise killed for their beliefs versus renunciation of them, which Nero wanted them to do.
 
(Q): Or was it, in itself, religious masochism because of using suffering as a way to teach people or waken them up?

(A): Yes, again the roots of this are in Judaism: In order to grow, evolve, or spiritually advance, one must suffer first, the 'chosen' people.

                                                              Root Cause of Masochism

(Q): When we had our phone session you said a couple of things that I have continued to grapple with. I intuitively understood the truth in your words but still needed to experience it for myself. You said I already knew enough about my past lives and also that I'd been working out certain issues for 2000 years. After regressing myself with one of Sutphen's CDs, I understand that the root cause of the masochism is the guilt and self-hatred for not being able to stop Jesus’ crucifixion and the ultimate powerlessness felt at that time. This futility was the futility and the torment we felt in our hearts for witnessing hatred toward love and then the death of it. It felt like the death of our own spirits, and we must have tortured ourselves forevermore with what we could have/should have done to stop it. The guilt became so deeply ingrained that we ourselves feel the need to be punished. So the reason you said I know enough about past lives is that it really goes back to that one--the root of this inner torment. The subsequent lifetimes are the same when you look at the central themes of powerlessness, desperation, and sadness for the atrocities we witness yet cannot change. Thanks for giving me just enough pieces of the puzzle.

(A): Yes, that it is right, and please remember, just as Jesus said then, that many who had followed him would denounce him when the time came--the crucifixion--because of the fact that many of the people who did, including disciples, would have their own lives on the line if it were known that they had followed and believed in him. As a result the guilt becomes deeper; the need to atone more intense.

                                                                   Why Sadism?

(Q): I am trying to understand why a soul would choose a sadistic path. I understand the root cause of sadism and the necessary existence of the polarity of good and evil, but I do not understand why a soul would choose to incur such horrible karma upon itself by creating personalities that are cruel to others. Is the soul simply unaware of itself and its motives and so brings heavy Karmic debts upon itself through sadistic actions in order to shock itself awake?

Is it worth the energy and effort to pursue total understanding of the phenomenon of sadism, or should those of us who are recovering from masochistic patterns give it no further thought as we abandon the sadists in our lives? I want to understand, but perhaps that is not possible. Perhaps understanding sadism is simply not relevant to the path the masochist must take in order to reform. It is draining and frustrating trying to get to the bottom of “why.” Perhaps that energy is better spent on healing the self?

(A): Both sadists and masochists have a root cause that unless addressed sustains both pathologies: victimization. Each pathology demands that the individual learn how to accept the responsibilities for their own actions and lives, and only then is such a pathology released.

                                                                  Healing of Sadism

(Q): As there is a ritual for the masochist's healing--the reprogramming of the subconscious--how does the sadist heal and end the victimized, egocentric pattern within consciousness? Is it even possible since the sadist refuses any and all responsibility for her own actions and the results of them? Masochists can receive enough hurt that finally inspires them to change, but if the sadist cannot be hurt because he hurts others compulsively, how or when can he ever change? Can a sadist experience hurt in any way that would encourage a change?

(A): First, the sadist does experience a deep hurt even though they can appear or 'pretend' not to be hurt. Second, the sadist, at some point, will change because of the inner pressure of a natural guilt that builds to the point where they have no choice but to change because the inner guilt does become unbearable. For example, many years ago I had a client who was a sadist to the maximum degree. The reason he came to see me was because of this inner guilt building to the point that he needed to 'confess' to someone. What brought him to this point was the fact that he 'inadvertently' killed a woman during some intense sadistic sexual practices. And this woman was a woman that he claimed that he actually 'loved'. It was because of this 'love' that the cumulative guilt that had already been built up relative to his whole past--not to mention the pasts of other lives--'popped' relative to killing this woman, thus causing him to want to 'confess'. And he did tell me this.

Of course this need to 'confess' was really a signal from his soul that he wanted to bring this sadism, and the psychological causes for it, to an end. I realized this right away when I began to talk to him about all this. Without going into great detail about what we talked about, the bottom line is that I told him that if he really wanted to change himself he would have to accept the responsibility for his own actions. And what that meant at the moment was to call the police and inform them of this crime. He did. As a result, by accepting the responsibility for his own actions, he set in motion a new cycle in which this pathology would come to an end.

                                                     Counseling Question on Sadism

(Q): I would like to ask if there is any method that can be offered for people who are, or were, at the sadistic end of the sadomasochistic pathology. For example, for those with the prevailing self-defeat/masochism end of this pathology the self-made tape with the counter messages can put an end to this pathology.
 
But there are people who played active parts on the sadistic end: e.g. those who were Christian priests during the Inquisition--those who were deluded that they were really fighting 'against evil', as opposed to those who were "ultimately evil" and/or made a contract with evil. In other words, there are souls who do not suffer basically from projected guilt, but from real guilt because while playing out the masochist end of the pathology, their reactions were rather typically sadistic, even if it is not physical anymore. If they're honestly seeking for solution, is there anything that can help them to become aware of their own psychological distortion, and is there any method that can be offered to them as how to stop that and be healed from it?? Or is it the same as for the masochists?
 
(A): Sadistic people also have the inner feeling—delusion--of being 'victimized' and thus are unable to accept the responsibility for their own actions. So the sadist takes it out on others because of the intense inner rage linked with the victim stuff. The solution is to get such people to, in fact, accept that they are responsible for that which they have done, for that which they have created, and accept the fact that they are not a victim. So in the instance of making a tape, it needs to have that one basic message looping into their consciousness over and over, and that if they truly desire to love God, to know God, that their 'sins' will be forgiven.

to be continued ..............

Logged
Wendy
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 452


« Reply #10 on: Apr 16, 2012, 03:13 PM »

Hi Rad,

Regarding the comments below about masochistic signatures, would you describe what is meant by "weak ego"?

Thanks so much for posting all of this information, and thanks Adina for transcribing them.  I'm learning a great deal, and I'm sure others are too.  

God Bless,
Wendy

Hi All,

The next subject/topic from the old message board that Adina Mather has put together for us is on Masochism, Sadism, and 'Perfection'. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. God Bless, Rad

***********************************************************************

                                         The Archetypes of Masochism, Sadism, and Perfection
                                                     Seeking Understanding of Masochism & Sadism


                                                                  

                                                Masochism Signature

(Q): I'm wondering if I haven't missed something in the reading or the tapes (currently on tape four). I have searched your library of past posts and haven't found this mentioned. Earlier I asked about self-destructive behavior, and you answered that it all boils down to masochism. To further that discussion: Is there a signature of masochism? So far, in the tapes, you've discussed how it correlates to Virgo, and the Virgo/Pisces axis. So would the "signature" be a "weak ego" as you discussed in the early tapes, with specific planets in Virgo/Pisces, sixth/twelfth or Venus/Neptune aspects?
 
(A):  Yes, but there are other signatures; for example, Saturn square or opposed Venus, Saturn square or opposed the moon, a strong Capricorn signature, or a dominant tenth house pattern.

(Q): What other factors would be common to this? Do you get into this further in the classes?

(A): Any signature which correlates with 'guilt and atonement. We get further into the archetype when the tapes get into chart analysis, and specifically the relationship analysis.
« Last Edit: Apr 16, 2012, 03:35 PM by Wendy » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« Reply #11 on: Apr 17, 2012, 07:28 AM »

Hi Wendy,

First, sorry for missing your question when you first posted it. A 'weak' ego is one without a real sense of boundaries between itself and the environments in which it interfaces with. This relative lack of boundaries thus allows for all kinds of messages that come from the environments at large to enter into the egocentric structure of the Soul in such a way that it can be vary difficult for the Soul and the ego manifested to know or understand that which is unique to itself as an individualized ego, and that which it is taking in from the environments at large. This then creates a real sense of inner confusion within the ego that in turn 'weakens' it from the bombardment of all kinds of messages and stimulus from the environment that the Soul/ego in interfacing with.

A weak ego is an ego that has such an accumulated sense of guilt, learned and natural, that the subsequent need to 'atone' for that guilt then creates the pathology of masochism. In turn the resulting inner psychology that says ' I deserve this"  relative to all the crisis involving a varying degree of being abused by others. The weak ego within this then can say all the abusive messages from others must be right which then has the affect of reinforcing that masochistic pathology in the first place.

God Bless, Rad
Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« Reply #12 on: Apr 17, 2012, 07:33 AM »

continuing ...........

                                                                                 Chiron and Sadism

(Q): In another post somewhere you stated that Chiron does not rule Virgo because of Virgo's association with sadism. If Chiron knows masochism, must not Chiron understand sadism in the same way that to fully know Leo is to understand Aquarius, the polarity point?
 
(A): No. If this were true then there would in fact be no 'pure' masochism. This means that there is such a thing as being a pure masochist without the corresponding polarity of sadism; e.g. Jesus was a pure masochist and had nothing to do with sadism. From a spiritual point of view, such a pure masochist, when such a soul has evolved to the higher spiritual states, serves the role (in patriarchal times) of the martyr. The function of the pure martyr is to induce the 'realizations of truth' thru the act of being a martyr, with these realizations of truth occurring after the fact of martyring a true martyr.

This can occur in the same way in 'normal' life; i.e. a partner who is a true Chiron type who acts as the 'martyr' for the other partner, with the purity of the Chiron partner producing--after the fact--deep realizations of personal horror in the sadistic partner about the nature of their own personal truth and the dynamics of that truth. Another way to understand all this is that if Chiron, of itself, knew of sadism in any way, it could not be Chiron, pure masochism.

                                                                                Karmic Forces

(Q): Apart from the Pluto opposition to Mars in the correspondence school tapes, you also mention the Mars opposition to Saturn as a sign that one is forced through karma to take responsibility for their own actions. What would be the major difference between the two configurations relative to karmic force?

(A): The prior question referred to the 'instant' karma effect, which correlates to Mars and Pluto in opposition. The Mars/Saturn opposition does not correlate to that instant effect; quite the opposite. In general, it takes a long time (Saturn) for the affects of the karma created by a person with such a signature to occur--a delayed effect--which can even manifest in another life. And the reason for this, of course, is the 'blame' effect that such people normally do, i.e., pointing fingers at every one but themselves, with the distorted and displaced rage being projected outwards. At worst this can produce some of the worst of sadism, so it is this 'pushing' away from accepting their own responsibility for what they have created that becomes the determinant (Saturn) of the 'appearance' of the delay effect.

(Q): Also, I would like to ask about a person who has Pluto and Mars in Cancer in a ten degree new phase conjunction and both opposed to Saturn (the client doesn't know the time, so I'm not sure about the houses), and Pluto squares the nodes, with the north node in Aries, and Uranus dead on it, thus forming a T-square with all this. Obviously, lots of trauma is forced onto her in this life in order to evolve. I was wondering if this configuration makes the soul very much 'crashed down' as a consequence of their actions (past and present). There is definitely an observable "no through road" for her in this life; all social power was taken away from her, and she was continuously forced down in every aspect of life. She is in the third stage consensus and in the past held power over others, participated in the Inquisition etc. She still has a sadistic nature but has no idea that she has it and no awareness of what she was doing to others even in this life. At the same time, of course, she considers herself an absolute victim of life and others and circumstances, etc. I wonder how any kind of awareness can be developed on her part, and with this configuration, what would be the best way to approach all these issues in a way that could help her to deal with her real issues, yet remain within the boundaries of her consciousness and reality?

(A):  See above. The whole issue becomes resolved when she can finally accept the responsibility for what she has created and why—only then.

(Q2): With the delay in karmic results, it must be most difficult for people to connect with their responsibility. Do they find this by finding in small ways how they create their outcomes? Do they find this in therapy or by having some kind of major emotional breakthrough, or realizing past life memories or reincarnation themes? Might a Mars/Saturn person begin such a breakthrough by having something like a past life reading with a psychic counselor? Anything to open the possibility that responsibility can extend from life to life?

(A): In the end it is what I already said. The individual must determine within him or herself the internal causes which are responsible for whatever the 'conditions' of the life are via the question, “Why have I needed to create this, or that, etc?” This can either occur within themselves and/or such a question can be posed to such a person; i.e., “Why do you think you needed to create this, that, or whatever?”

                                                                                  Sacrifice

(Q): Is the fact that Jesus became so famous after his life due to the collective's need for martyrs? Is the distortion of his teachings part of the patriarchal exclusion/exploitation mentality, but the martyr aspect a genuine need for atonement of unnatural guilt accumulated thru the oppressive religious conditionings? And here comes my quandary: Even once we purge the sadomasochistic archetype, will there still be a need for sacrifice (Virgo), as necessity for service/giving back to the whole in some way, because we will always have to 'take' organic life to survive ourselves (Virgo/Aries inconjunct)--atonement, inadequacy due to our primal survival needs as a realistic human experience?

I know that our ancestors were not primitive, and even though they lived a simpler life their concept of the Source was extremely tangible, practical, and sophisticated as it was reflected in daily life, and their sacrificial rituals were a way to make amends with the Goddess (Pisces as polarity to Virgo) unlike our so-called civilized western world, which is really brutally primitive in its murderous exploitation and senseless wastefulness. It seems to me that the collective of western civilization has lost its sense of natural guilt and is perhaps also clinging to martyrdom as a remnant of what once was natural guilt caused by the taking of Life to survive--killing of animals, the harvest, etc. Or am I mixing up separate issues?

On the other hand I know from my own experience that in order for me to evolve, I had and have to give up certain desires, certain outdated forms of behavior, by shifting my focus and seeing that the object of my desire was a mirage, was not in harmony with my true desire. I experience this as extremely difficult and as a sacrifice. Would this be an example of how reality (Virgo) and also the phenomenon of sacrifice (Virgo) inconjuncts Aquarius and the ability to objectively see what is real? And furthermore, the resolution for the sacrifice here too would be Pisces as the polarity to Virgo, the ability to embrace the Source, knowing that by eliminating the separating desires without acting out by trying to force their fulfillment, or repressing any of them, I will eventually be in union with God'ess.

(A): You have asked many things and, yes, much of what you are writing is a mix between natural law and the distortions in consciousness that have been caused by the manifestation of the patriarchy. Remember that thru and by natural law, the way God'ess naturally created the human being was with a consciousness that is defined by the principals of giving, sharing, and inclusion. As the patriarchy began its manifestation, this progressively changed to self-interest and exclusion.
 
Because Jesus manifested in the patriarchal times at the beginning of the Pisces Age, whose sub-age is Virgo, which we are still in, by the way, this then required the phenomenon of martyrs, true martyrs, not the martyrdom, for example, of all these crazed Muslims who blow up buses full of children in the name of God so as to induce, after the fact (as in the Crucifixion of Jesus) a progressively horrified reaction within the collective that someone as pure as He would be killed thru and because of the delusions of humans who are defined by self-interest and exclusion. Witness the Sanhedrin itself, or even the Judaic people of the times who were given a choice of saving the life of Jesus versus Barabas, who was a Zionistic warrior of a political nature. They of course chose Barabas.

True martyrs are always projected upon by those who hold the delusions of self-interest and exclusion and are 'set-up' for tremendous trials of suffering so as to be seen progressively for the purity that actually exists in their hearts and souls, again, typically, after the fact of some event(s) caused by the projections themselves.

Natural guilt is still part of all of us. For example, any of us would feel naturally guilty if we put our child out on the freeway to be run over and killed, no matter how delusional or crazed a person may be leading to such a thing. And this natural guilt is exactly the causative factor that allows the collective to learn through the various ways of destruction of true martyrs.

Unnatural guilt is caused by doctrines, teachings, philosophies, and religions who promote anything other than natural law due to the delusional morals and ethics resulting in specific behaviors, which themselves are not natural.

Both natural and unnatural guilt directly lead to the need to atone for that guilt, but there is a difference in natural atonement versus unnatural atonement. Desires that have been created thru distortions in consciousness caused by the repression of natural desires that lead to this distortion can and must be 'sacrificed' so as to allow the consciousness to be realigned with natural law and the natural God'ess. This is done by the conscious understanding of how those distorted desires came into being and for what reasons and then deciding within that, “No, this is not what I need or wish to do with and to myself,” thru an act of conscious will.

For some folks, on the other hand, the only way to purge such distorted desires is thru the actual acting out of them. When this is the case, such a person upon such fulfillment will feel so inwardly repulsed and 'shocked by itself' that the very nature of such a shock and revulsion then serves to realign the consciousness back to a state of natural law and balance.

                                                          Theological Question About Perfection

(Q): I'm grappling with a kind of duality concerning God’ess (or the universe) and hope you can offer some insight. While the concept of God as an ever-evolving (and thus imperfect) being makes a lot of sense, I have considered the universe itself, God's creation, no? And God is a wise and compassionate entity, as in the phrase, "God is good". Yet if an absolute ("perfect") cannot be applied to God, can any absolute (such as "wise") be applied to the universe itself, if it is created by God? Is the universe itself not evolving toward a state of wisdom, as God itself evolves toward perfection?

(A): Just because God'ess is not 'perfect' does not mean that God'ess is not 'wise or compassionate.' And yes, all is evolving toward 'perfection,' whatever that may be. To me, when all is 'perfect' then there is no need for the Creation in the first place but, hey, that could be my own imperfect understanding.

                                                                         Universe Evolving

(Q): Since the Universe/Source is an ever evolving force Itself, and therefore never perfect, are we helping this force evolve by working with our karmic/evolutionary intentions? And why did God’ess/Source ever need to project itself into manifested creation? All my life I have been asking these questions (Pluto): Why am I? Why is anything?

(A): Yes, to the extent that we consciously embrace our evolutionary lessons and understand and fulfill our karma, whatever it may be, these things do, in fact, help the Source evolve, only because we come from that Source.

There is a natural limitation to all forms within the Creation, including the limitation of human consciousness. This means it can only know so much relative to the outer limit of that limitation. For example, anyone reading this message can experience just what I mean by this in this way: Who created God’ess? That’s when the limitation of human consciousness is reached. As a result, the question you are asking here is not answerable from the point of view of this natural human limitation.

                                                                       Pluto in Leo, Virgo, etc.

(Q): You mention in one of your lectures that the Pluto in Leo generation, with its Polarity Point (PP) in Aquarius, as it takes on positions of social responsibility, will help to pave the way for the Aquarian Age. Is this what you mean?

(A): Again, all depends on individual context and the evolutionary condition of any given soul. Some within this generation, about 30 percent or so, in fact will work in one way or another will help pave the way.

(Q): You also point out that Jesus, with his Pluto in Virgo, served to usher in the Piscean Age. Does this mean that the contemporary Pluto in Virgo generation is here to complete the Pisces Age?

(A): The Pisces Age will take another five hundred years to fully culminate. This five hundred years is beginning in our time.

(Q): If so, what is the relationship of the contemporary Pluto in Virgo generation to the masochism dynamic?

(A): The ultimate intent is to understand and realize the right and wrong use of religion and, within that, to understand when 'religion' can become evil and to help bring that orientation to religion to a close.

(Q): Also, what relationship would you say those with Pluto in Virgo conjunct Uranus in Virgo have to the oncoming age?

(A): There is no one answer; again, it all depends on individual context.

(Q): Is there a sort of bridge-effect because of the Uranus/Aquarius connection?

(A): For some, yes.

(Q): Last, what relationship does the placement of Pluto in Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, etc. have to preparing the universe for the upcoming age?

(A): To help break down the unnatural reality created thru the patriarchal distortions that define the majority of consciousness on the planet and help return consciousness to a state of natural law, which will be done thru the specific nature of the archetypes of each of those signs.

end .......
Logged
Wendy
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 452


« Reply #13 on: Apr 19, 2012, 07:55 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for all your attention to these questions.  I truly appreciate it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does this mean that all masochistic souls have 'weak' egos? 

And, would a soul that has extensive Pisces/Virgo themes, who has been challenged, in this life, with the management of being sensitive to psychic energy be termed 'weak ego', due to its natural intuitive attunement to environments and telepathic communication with animals, etc, (like the Dameon soul) or am I confusing the two?

Thanks again,
Wendy

Hi Wendy,

First, sorry for missing your question when you first posted it. A 'weak' ego is one without a real sense of boundaries between itself and the environments in which it interfaces with. This relative lack of boundaries thus allows for all kinds of messages that come from the environments at large to enter into the egocentric structure of the Soul in such a way that it can be vary difficult for the Soul and the ego manifested to know or understand that which is unique to itself as an individualized ego, and that which it is taking in from the environments at large. This then creates a real sense of inner confusion within the ego that in turn 'weakens' it from the bombardment of all kinds of messages and stimulus from the environment that the Soul/ego in interfacing with.

A weak ego is an ego that has such an accumulated sense of guilt, learned and natural, that the subsequent need to 'atone' for that guilt then creates the pathology of masochism. In turn the resulting inner psychology that says ' I deserve this"  relative to all the crisis involving a varying degree of being abused by others. The weak ego within this then can say all the abusive messages from others must be right which then has the affect of reinforcing that masochistic pathology in the first place.

God Bless, Rad
Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21217


« Reply #14 on: Apr 20, 2012, 07:07 AM »

Hi Wendy,

"Does this mean that all masochistic souls have 'weak' egos? "

***************

It depends on the extent of the masochism within any given Soul. Any of us can exhibit some degree of masochism form time to time versus other Souls who are permeated by this pathology. To the degree that masochism permeates any given Soul is then the determinant of how 'weak' their ego's will be.

****************

"And, would a soul that has extensive Pisces/Virgo themes, who has been challenged, in this life, with the management of being sensitive to psychic energy be termed 'weak ego', due to its natural intuitive attunement to environments and telepathic communication with animals, etc, (like the Dameon soul) or am I confusing the two?"

****************

Of itself the answer is no. If combined with with varying degrees of pathological masochism, not 'spiritual masochism', then the answer is yes.

******************

God Bless, Rad
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video