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ari moshe
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« on: Apr 26, 2012, 03:00 PM »

Hi Rad,

I recently gave a reading and ended up speaking about certain dynamics that the soul I was with didn't seem to show any responsiveness or awareness of. I now acknowledge that I was in fact not certain of my words while speaking them, and yet spoke anyway.

I would like to learn from this and make the necessary corrections. May I post this chart here and offer my interpretation about a particular dynamic in order to receive the appropriate feedback? Interestingly, this is a 6th house/virgo dynamic that I spoke to. Thank you,
am
« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2012, 07:44 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 27, 2012, 07:21 AM »

Hi Ari,

Ok ........

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 28, 2012, 09:19 AM »



First stage spiritual - she began a training with some teachers working with a particular plan medicine and since about the time of her Saturn return has been serving as a shaman with this medicine throughout various places in the country.

I want to start off with an observation of her that I am trying to correlate to the chart. This is where I feel I was lacking in objectivity during my reading.

I have is I have seen in ceremonies I have sat with her that she has allowed various people to take "center stage" which has had the effect of alienating many of the participants. These were people that were in the position of some sort of service role. The people who have taken center stage were souls that would do various things that were very disruptive in a Sag kind of way - loud and inconsiderate - and she has seemed oblivious to it, and yet the container seemed weakened during the time that these people were taking center stage. An example of this is when one man who was serving the role as a helper (6th house) asked if he could play a song - and he played that song and then 2 more and then the flute - very loudly - total for about an hour or so. Another example was a woman who was working with her for many ceremonies - a young woman who seemed very well intended and yet still well before her saturn return. She has been allowed to do healing work on people during many ceremonies. I received feedback from attendees and have witnessed myself that this woman carried a lot of darkness which was disruptive to many of the people in the ceremony.

Both of these people I speak of are good hearted people who are also growing. However they have been given power that seemed inappropriate for where they are actually at.

Is this specifically indicated by that Saturn Mercury retro in Virgo int he 5th SEMI SEXTILE her Mars Venus in Libra in the 6th all relative to the Neptune retro in the 9th? Actualizing her own special purpose and limiting the ways in which she gives to others according to the needs and necessary boundaries of that special purpose? And the irritant would be wanting to enable others to shine and to receive what they need, and yet the need to create limitations and adjustments in that so that a crisis isn't created.

Relative to her Pisces sn, and Neptune retro - it is easy for her to side step all of that and just vibrate unconditional love all the while certain people make it less about God and the medicine and more about their own egos. The other dynamic within her chart is Uranus in Scorpio in the 7th crescent semi square her nn. Discrimination and objective thinking relative to relationships - learning the lesson to limit who she lets in and does not let in and perhaps a prior life dynamic of having been too trusting of others and then having been betrayed and humiliated by these others who would end up projecting all kinds of negative ideas about her. I'll keep it here for now...

Thank you so much for any direction/guidance you can offer in this regard. The thing that leads me to post this is that as I spoke about these dynamics (I did not give to her the examples I gave above since it was not asked for) she did not seem to express any awareness or acknowledgement of this. So I feel within myself I do not fully grasp what this is about and I also recognize the natural Virgo/Pisces denial/avoidance which also may be a part of this picture.
God bless,
am
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Upasika
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 28, 2012, 06:02 PM »

Hi Ari,

While you're waiting for Rad to comment, I saw a few things that I could share with you, not necessarily the right answer as such to your questions, but just generally a few things jumped out.

In addition to your own chart observations, if it's alright with you, briefly what I saw was...

Recap on your summary: the issue seems to be that she lacks awareness of the needs of the group, as opposed to needs of individuals within the group, and a lack of clarity about her role in these shamanistic gatherings (holding and directing the space appropriately for the benefit of all).

Bottom line Pluto in Libra/6th: She has been learning about balance with others. That the Moon (ego) and Mars (conscious desires) are also in Libra shows she obviously still has a lot to learn here, and a way still to go. Also Venus, the ruler of Pluto, conj the NN reinforces this, and shows that at least in the recent past she has now started working more consciously with these issues.

As you point out, in the past she has probably been a very, very trusting person (S.Node in Pisces in 12th). Searching for meaning in life (ruler S.Node Neptune in Sag/9th) through metaphysical studies, meditative activities, and acceptance of many different ideologies without necessarily distinguishing between any one in particluar (Neptune in Sag/9th). To her all these different philosophies she exposed herself to were as good as each other, as they were all in her target area of interest (anything above and beyond the mundane) - she wasn't concerned whether they were experientially valid or not - immersing herself in them, they all helped her escape from everyday reality/finding a connection to Source, a big need for her (S.Node in Pisces/12th). However there was definitely conflict caused by doing this, shown by Neptune being retrograde, which led to her starting to realise that she did need to start sorting out which of these philosophies from the many she was attracting were of real relevance to her. That is why in this life she has created Mercury in Virgo retrograde - an analysis and culling of unneccesary information needs to happen. (She's actually been heading towards that before now - S.Node Mercury conjunct Mercury)

She has involved herself with many different kinds of people in the past (Pluto in Libra, ruler Venus in Libra, S.Node Mars conj Pluto and Moon in Libra), and has struck problems when she tried to assert her individuality (Chiron in 1st inconjunct all her Libra planets Pluto/Moon/Mars/Venus) which would have left her shaky and hestitant about overiding other's wishes. She also has wounds from challenging other's philosophies (Chiron also inconjunct Neptune in 9th) - a yod with Chiron at apex in 1st. Therefore it is much easier for her to just "go with the flow" (Neptune sextiling all her Libra planets) - stepping in and leading things by providing stability (Chiron in 1st/Taurus) is a problematic issue for her. She also isn't sure where she really stands with people (Uranus in Scorpio in 7th) - Uranus makes her want to be free from encumbrances with others, but Scorpio means she cannot not be involved with them either, so she probably avoids "seeing" what's really going on in her relationships, tries to distance herself from anything that would disturb the peace. She wants peace everywhere (S.Node in Pisces/12th), but paradocically (Uranus) by following this approach of course she ends up with what looks like peace on the surface, but unrest and discontent underneath in her dealings with people.

With Pluto conj Moon in the 6th she would have had a natural tendency in the past to create crisis as a way of inducing the necessary learning about all this balance with people that she has needed to work on. And with N.Node, Venus and Mars also in the 6th this lifetime, plus N.Node in Virgo and the N.Node ruler in Virgo, that is pretty much the only way she will continue to learn these lessons in this lifetime. So, as you witnessed, via the above dynamics she creates a crisis in her shamanistic gatherings. With S.Node Neptune conjuct her Aquarius 11th house cusp, and both trine all her Libra planets she probably feels that everyone should be allowed to do their thing in groups, that having a "leader" is restrictive, maybe too patriarchal, and leans towards a philosophy of "let it all be equal". The irony here is immense.

With the Sun in Leo/5th, she will probably feel that her assessment of things is "fine", especially with it sextiling Pluto and Moon and trining Neptune. As you say she may feel to be generous regarding people's wishes to express their creativity, and want to give them full time in the spotlight. With that tight Saturn/Mercury conjunction in the 5th she may have her own inner doubts about her decisions, but probably compensates for those via her Jupiter in Cancer/4th semisquaring her Moon - going for her own version of what's right in the situation and ignoring any doubts - "it's OK - just let it be".

Also with her Moon in balsamic conjunction to Pluto she has got a raft of issues to contend with regarding her own emotional security, and because of that oversensitivity will often get extremely emotionally disconnected from the group. This will cause her to retreat into her shell, while trying at the same time to not show that anything is going on at all. Sometimes she may just emotionally freeze over as a result of this, become very emotionally stuck in the moment. Again, another reason why she loses perspective on what's happening with the group space, as in those periods her energy will have shut down considerably causing loss of control of her role as faciliator/group leader or whatever it is she is doing in that sense on behalf of the group.

Her interest in shamanism comes from deep roots in her past. And all the people she is attracting via this are probably people she has been involved with, sometimes many times, in her past lives (S.Node Venus conjunct balsamic Venus/Mars conjunction - all extremely tight). Deep down she will subconsciously feel she knows each and every one of them. And that her journey with them is not new at all, just a continuation of the long time relationship she has being having with them. And therefore perhaps she also feels differently about the purpose of these gatherings than you may imagine (I don't know, just wondering...). Subsconsciosly she may feel it is a platform, or container within which to complete her relationships with everyone she is attracting rather than everyone partaking in shamanistic rituals just for the sake of that itself. Of course this will involve recreating the past dynamics of each relationship which will then bring to the surface all unfinished issues and business in each relationship so that she can deal with these issues and complete her karma with many people in this way. This may be more her real purpose in these gatherings than in anything to do with the group having the best experience as a group.

And it's all going to happen via a 6th house situation - crisis. Which may actually be just what her soul is intending to happen. That way all the issues will start rising, festering, and sooner or later she will start getting all the feedback she needs to propel her inwards via all the analysis, mental examination, doubting etc Virgo process. As she gradually sorts through all this she will end up culling opinions of others that aren't relevant to her own reality, making up with people, or falling out with them, clarifying her position in all her relationships, establishing boundaries where before there were few or none, and settling on the aspects of shamanism and other spiritual interests/activities that actually give her a real sense of connection to the Divine. But at that point it will be much more on her own terms (PPP conjunct ASC).

*****

I wasn't meaning to detract from Rad giving his answer to your question in any way Ari - your question was interesting, and then when I saw the chart it just pulled me in... so I hope you don't mind me chipping in? ..just felt to share that with you. Just my thoughts, and what I've written might not be right in places so Rad may correct that when he answers your questions.

blessings Upasika

 
« Last Edit: Apr 29, 2012, 01:29 AM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 29, 2012, 08:33 AM »

Hi Ari,

Your EA analysis and perceptions of her Soul are all correct. And, as you stated, there is of course the active dynamic of avoidance/ denial. In cases like this, not just her, a natural way to have such Soul's consciously acknowledge, and deal with, an actual reality that they are in denial of is to present that reality in the form of Socratic like questions in which the reality is contained with the types of questions you ask in this way.

For example, asking her "Why do you think that some of the people who are participating in these ceremonies are being critical of you in terms of how you are conducting them ? Some of the people that I have been talking too feel that there is a lack of balance in terms of you doing what you do, and the others that you allow to do what they do. Do you feel this is true ? If not, why do you think others are feeling and saying this ?

If such Souls are in fact ready to evolve because of existing patterns and dynamics like this they will respond to this approach. If they do then you can explain to them the existing causative dynamics, and what the current EA intentions are for their Soul. If not , they won't. In that case you just do what you do and move on.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Apr 29, 2012, 09:04 AM by Rad » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 29, 2012, 04:12 PM »

Upasika, I found all of that relevant for understanding this dynamic more clearly - thank you for sharing your ea analysis here. Rad thank you for that clear feedback and good advice. I'm wondering is there is also a necessity for this soul to embrace her role as an actual teacher/mentor?

She has said no to such requests from various people in the past, and yet clearly has brought people in who are in need of guidance. Do these same signatures also point to the need for her to develop more boundaries and definitions specifically in regards to her role as a teacher to others who wish to do similar work to herself? Or is it just more about her creating the necessary boundaries and discernment in general with her relationships and the groups she is serving and not the necessity to become a teacher? I ask this because of the reality of her Neptune in the 9th almost squaring the 6th house nn - both being an apprentice and taking ones on. That is something I suggested to her - that she teach and train others more formally in her own specific practices, and while I know where I was coming from, that specific advice may not have been relevant to her. So that's a part of what I'm trying to correct here. I may have given advice that wasn't appropriate.

Furthermore, since there is almost a skipped step with these signatures, it is also true to say that it is possible for her to get too ahead of herself by way of missing out on some of her own necessary training? My intuition is that her further training involves working on her relationship to the ppl that work with her - understanding what she has created, and why, and then to choose the actions that will allow the work she is doing to serve its maximum purpose. Is that accurate?
God bless,
am
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Rad
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« Reply #6 on: Apr 30, 2012, 07:58 AM »

Hi Ari,

Upasika, I found all of that relevant for understanding this dynamic more clearly - thank you for sharing your ea analysis here. Rad thank you for that clear feedback and good advice. I'm wondering is there is also a necessity for this soul to embrace her role as an actual teacher/mentor?

***************

Yes, but it is of course an issue of timing, evolutionary timing, for her Soul. Within her own inner reality she does not yet feel 'ready' to take on that role in a formal or full blown sense. Within her Soul she is still feeling/ knowing that she needs more inner development for that Soul knowing of finally be ready to manifest. She has already had many lives prior to this in which this inner development has been underway in various ways, and that is continuing in this life, necessarily so from her Soul's point of view. Yet, at the same time, she is allowing herself to mentor or teach certain others in an informal way which is also necessary for this is itself preparatory for finally evolving into being a teacher/ mentor in a formal or professional sense.

Jupiter, the teacher and student, is in Cancer in her 4th and not yet in an exact trine to her S.Node in the 12th, or sextile her N.Node in the 6th. It is also balsamic to her N.Nodes of Venus, Jupiter, and Pluto. All of these symbols correlate to her own Soul knowing of not yet feeling ready to be the full blow teacher/ mentor. This the life in which the transition will be made. As she gets ever older in this life this will begin to manifest more and more which will take her into her next life. And in that next life she will then be that full blown teacher/ mentor.

In that next life if she then does not make the choices to be this then that will indeed lead to the 'skipped steps' that is being forewarned about relative to her Neptune in the 9th that COULD square her Nodes in that next life IF she indeed does not make the choice in that life to do this. 


****************

She has said no to such requests from various people in the past, and yet clearly has brought people in who are in need of guidance. Do these same signatures also point to the need for her to develop more boundaries and definitions specifically in regards to her role as a teacher to others who wish to do similar work to herself?

*************

Yes, but in a more informal sense as explained above.

***********

 Or is it just more about her creating the necessary boundaries and discernment in general with her relationships and the groups she is serving and not the necessity to become a teacher?

****************

Yes, but as she gets older she will move more into this role: towards the end of her life. It is a matter of the right timing for her Soul to feel 'ready'.

*****************

 I ask this because of the reality of her Neptune in the 9th almost squaring the 6th house nn - both being an apprentice and taking ones on. That is something I suggested to her - that she teach and train others more formally in her own specific practices, and while I know where I was coming from, that specific advice may not have been relevant to her. So that's a part of what I'm trying to correct here. I may have given advice that wasn't appropriate.

******************

This issue is one of the right timing Ari. You saw/see her potential. And that potential that you  see is accurate. To suggest to her now to do that is 'inappropriate' is the sense of suggesting to her now is the right time to do this. It's not. So the 'right' way to have presented this to her was to show her the whole picture of her Soul coming through time that has been progressively preparing to do this. And that that inner sense of preparation will finally lead to her inwardly 'knowing' when the time is right to transition from the preparing stage to the 'doing' stage in a formal sense. And that she will inwardly know about this the older she becomes in this life that will then take her into her next life.

****************

Furthermore, since there is almost a skipped step with these signatures, it is also true to say that it is possible for her to get too ahead of herself by way of missing out on some of her own necessary training? My intuition is that her further training involves working on her relationship to the ppl that work with her - understanding what she has created, and why, and then to choose the actions that will allow the work she is doing to serve its maximum purpose. Is that accurate?

****************

Yes.

*******************


God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: Apr 30, 2012, 10:39 AM »

Thank you Rad.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #8 on: Apr 30, 2012, 03:07 PM »

Hi Rad and community
I want to post another chart that I have a question about, this too is concerning a 6th house dynamic.
Along this I have a general question regarding denial.



To provide basic bio - she lived in an ashram for a good number of years before she received instruction to "be in the world". She studied a lot of paths and began doing her own form of soul retreaval work. She is very well known in her community.

She has kept busy, being involved in many many projects that support various groups. She has had a pattern of taking on responsibilities and obligations and also not being able to follow through with them. As long as I've known her she has always been trying too hard and always "rushed" and disorganized. My general understanding of this chart is she has wanted to be known for her service and the role she is able to pay on behalf of others - based on that she has actualized a role of giving too much, taking on too much and then getting sick, stressed out, needing to go into retreat.

The basic advice I gave her half a year ago when I read her chart, especially given the chart dynamics at that time of Saturn entering her 6th at that time, approaching her skipped step and her Sun was to simply stop and to focus on the details in her life and not get ahead of herself in that regard. For example eating a diet that SHE KNOWS will help her health, and not taking on too many tasks that will stress her out.

And I emphasized that the value is in the effort, she doesn't have to have it all together right away. A part of this is calming the nervous system and to stop exposing herself to so much information (shelf full of books on spirituality and various spiritual practices- mercury in libra in 6th squaring nodes). That Mercury is semi sextile Venus retro in 7th which is ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the 5th. Giving to people via the unconscious desire to be useful and have a purpose relative to giving. She has the natural ability to tune into ppl's core needs, but has lacked appropriate discrimination about when to and when not to meet those needs. Leading to self sacrifice and then this current period in her life where she is completely dependent on other people because of what has happened with her health.

I received an email today basically outlining that her health has been in rapid decline. Which is what I expected via the immense denial that I perceived within this soul not too long ago.

Here's a snipped from that email:
Quote
Many of you are aware that ___ has long been compensating for a very longstanding illness that she has been living with for the greater part of her life. For those of you who don't know, ___ has SLE, ME, and a chronic, systemic viral infection. Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE, or Lupus) is an auto-immune disease of connective tissue (collagen) in which numerous body systems are affected, often including the joints and skin, the kidneys, heart, lungs and central nervous system. Lupus can affect any organ system, and recent research is beginning to indicate that SLE may, at least in some cases, be viral in origin. The disease is characterized by remissions and relapses and is currently considered incurable. The prognosis is variable, depending on the organs involved and the extent of the inflammation. In ____'s case the lupus is accompanied by myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), a chronic, ferociously debilitating neuro-endocrine disease, which also may be viral in etiology. ___ is dealing with a chronic viral infection which has entered her entire system... Most recently an acute pancreatitis attack has left her unable to keep down food or fluids for over a month, and because her damaged pancreas is presently unable to produce digestive enzymes, she has needed to resort to IV fluids.

The email goes on in a Virgo list making kind of way.
This very past January I saw her eating food that I know was not appropriate for her condition. I knew she was not integrating the steps that were necessary for her - that she was still in denial. At this point one of the requests in this email is to receive donations so that they can buy a juicer and things like that. I'm happy to see that she is now desiring to do that work - and I am also wondering if she actually will since she has intellectually known that juicing would be a good idea for a long time already. So my sense of it is, at this point all she can do to improve her condition is to RADICALLY alter her lifestyle where she becomes completely fixated on only living in a way that will improve her health - no matter what that takes - and included in that is working through core inner beliefs (masochistic thinking). And it seems that this soul needed to create a crisis to set her in motion in this way.

Note my question is purely theoretical as I have not received from her yet any desire for perspective. Would the best advice to give to this a soul be to truly just focus on self improvement, even if perfect health never happens in this life, just to make the effort - and to help her understand why she created this crisis in the first place?

I think what leads me to ask this is I have the intuition that this soul has given up - that she doesn't actually want to do the necessary work. I am skeptical of her actual desire to do this since her request for support in this email feels like a "desperate plea" and no where in her letter does she seem to be taking any personal responsibility for what she has brought into her life but rather just the emphasis is on all the 6th house list of things that are wrong with her. I am reflecting on this and wondering how I, if called to do so, can best serve her at this time.

Also, in general, how can any soul who is in denial take the necessary steps in their life b4 a crisis hits? Crisis, by its very nature brings to the surface the issues that the soul was not willing to address which is why the denial existed in the first place. In other words, persisting with anything seems quite difficult when there is a psychology of denial.

Is the key to engage various practices that by their very nature will bring to the surface the issues that give rise to the denial BEFORE the necessity to create a crisis? And in doing that, to at least recognize that there is denial and that there is a reason for the denial - even if it isn't understood - and to stay very close to the desire to know God by sticking with the practices so that the issues can be resolved?
Thank you,
God bless
Ari Moshe
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Upasika
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« Reply #9 on: Apr 30, 2012, 06:38 PM »

Hi Ari,

Really briefly (just don't have any time available at the moment) ... but seems to me she has a lot of repressed/traumatised emotions.

Have you considered/noticed that at all? Unless she starts recognising that, and doing something about it, working on physical level may be working too far from causes (of course it would be much better than doing nothing at all). But emotional problems tend to precede physical problems.

blessings Upasika
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Rad
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:24 AM »

Hi Ari,

The email goes on in a Virgo list making kind of way. This very past January I saw her eating food that I know was not appropriate for her condition. I knew she was not integrating the steps that were necessary for her - that she was still in denial. At this point one of the requests in this email is to receive donations so that they can buy a juicer and things like that. I'm happy to see that she is now desiring to do that work - and I am also wondering if she actually will since she has intellectually known that juicing would be a good idea for a long time already. So my sense of it is, at this point all she can do to improve her condition is to RADICALLY alter her lifestyle where she becomes completely fixated on only living in a way that will improve her health - no matter what that takes - and included in that is working through core inner beliefs (masochistic thinking). And it seems that this soul needed to create a crisis to set her in motion in this way.

*******************

This would be better than nothing yet this strategy is about dealing with symptoms, not the causes of those symptoms. Unless and until there is a desire within her Soul to understand the causative factors in her orientation to her life nothing can actually change.

****************

Note my question is purely theoretical as I have not received from her yet any desire for perspective. Would the best advice to give to this a soul be to truly just focus on self improvement, even if perfect health never happens in this life, just to make the effort - and to help her understand why she created this crisis in the first place?

********************

Yes, until the causes are identified and owned by her that is then linked with a desire to evolve beyond those causes nothing can actually change. But she has to ask first, and that asking must come from the sincere depths of her Soul.

***********************

I think what leads me to ask this is I have the intuition that this soul has given up - that she doesn't actually want to do the necessary work. I am skeptical of her actual desire to do this since her request for support in this email feels like a "desperate plea" and no where in her letter does she seem to be taking any personal responsibility for what she has brought into her life but rather just the emphasis is on all the 6th house list of things that are wrong with her. I am reflecting on this and wondering how I, if called to do so, can best serve her at this time.

***************************

To help her identify the causative factors for her life conditions.

*******************

Also, in general, how can any soul who is in denial take the necessary steps in their life b4 a crisis hits?

****************

They can't because of the denial. And, because of the denial, crisis are then 'fated' to occur.

******************

Crisis, by its very nature brings to the surface the issues that the soul was not willing to address which is why the denial existed in the first place. In other words, persisting with anything seems quite difficult when there is a psychology of denial.

Is the key to engage various practices that by their very nature will bring to the surface the issues that give rise to the denial BEFORE the necessity to create a crisis? And in doing that, to at least recognize that there is denial and that there is a reason for the denial - even if it isn't understood - and to stay very close to the desire to know God by sticking with the practices so that the issues can be resolved?

**************

Whatever practices are engaged will mean nothing unless and until there is a desire to understand the causative factors in her life conditions. This is what is all comes down too. The desire to know God must be linked with a desire to know her own Soul. They go together.

****************


God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 06:40 AM »

Thank you Rad. That was very clarifying and helpful.
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