The next topic from the old JWG message board that has been put together by Adina Mater is on Evolutionary Stages. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. God Bless, Rad
Individuated to Spiritual - Right Work
(Q): I have a question in relation to one's right work function relative to one's evolutionary stage. On the Pluto School tapes, you said that "a person in the spiritual stage can put on a suit and laugh about it" because the person has evolved beyond the 'consensus' idea of conformity. For someone who is in the third stage individuated and leaning strongly toward first stage spiritual, would "putting on a suit," so to speak, (i.e., taking a lucrative job that does not compromise personal creativity or lifestyle but still intimately supports consensus business structures) be a "wrong" choice to make while simultaneously pursuing work appropriate to the first stage spiritual?
In the third stage of individuated is it enough, relative to this point in the soul's evolution to simply secure employment that does not infringe upon independent lifestyle, or should the individual be looking for a deeper work function? Could it be said that no matter what work choices are made by the personality, the soul is learning and growing closer to the Source with each one - even if only by eliminating the desires of the personality/soul - so that there is no such thing as a 'wrong' choice or choices?
Is there such a thing as a "sell-out," and is that relevant from the soul's point of view, or is that concept just the posturing of the ego trying to achieve "perfection" before its time?
(A): First, for most of those in the third stage individuated, it is important to have a work function that is a reflection of the soul itself. Only the person himself can answer that question. But remember a hallmark sign of such a soul is the evolved capacity to affect the system in a creative, innovative or revolutionary way. For example, Einstein was third stage individuated moving rapidly into the first stage spiritual, and his work speaks for itself. I am not trying to say that all third stage individuated souls are going to be like Einstein, but the archetype is the same in less dramatic ways for those in this stage of evolution. Unless this archetype is being actualized in this way, I would have to say that anything other than this is, in your words, 'selling out.'
Skipping the Individuated Evolutionary Stage
(Q): Is it possible for a soul to move from third stage consensus to first stage spiritual by skipping the individuated stage? Throughout history there have been many cases documented of people living life in conformity to social customs and then experiencing some spiritual awakening that projected them straight to high spiritual awareness. An individual like Gandhi, for example, was a yuppie lawyer traveling in his first class train before it all happened. Edgar Cayce was an extremely conservative religious person who suddenly had visions of a spiritual nature beyond consensus conservatism.
It seems that these people did not go through lifetimes of individuation but realized 'truth' and skipped the individuated stage of evolution.
(A): The key words in your question are "it seems." Remember that those in third stage individuated can 'appear' as 'normal' from the point of view of the consensus, complete with the costumes of the consensus state. It is not possible to skip from the consensus to the spiritual, as this is, of course, a violation of the natural law of evolution itself. Perhaps the most astounding example that comes to my mind is the guru of Yogananda, Sri Yukteswar. Until the middle of this life he was a 'householder' who did what everyone else appeared to do, even married. I think he even had a child. Then look what happened.
(Q): Can a soul 'jump' from first stage spiritual to third stage spiritual? I would like to try and do this.
(A): I wish I could say yes, but, no, it is not possible. The real issue, relative to the patriarchy, is being able to reduce the amount of time spent in the second stage spiritual.
Second Stage Spiritual
(Q): In the Pluto School tapes you use a number of well known 'fallen' spiritual leaders as examples of the second stage spiritual. After thinking about this, my thoughts are that there must be a more positive and less dramatic way for a person to remove spiritual glamour from their life without negatively impacting so many other people in the process. (I realize there are no victims, and that those 'hurt' in that process are all volunteers. Still, it's a cataclysmic event).
First, do you agree with that? If you do, could you give a description and maybe some examples of what a more positive way of dealing with this stage looks like?
(A): The main thing in the second stage spiritual is the ego over-identifying with the degree of God/ess realization that it has. As a result, there are many ways in which this can manifest. Not all are people like Rajneeshes or Claire Prophets of this world who, by the way, currently has Alzheimer's disease. An example could be the 'raging mystic' who moves from town to town, from street to street, who is 'venting' his God realization upon all, whether anybody wants to listen or not. It can be the exorcist priest who, in the context of his duty, does not recognize his own limits and, as a result, gets killed by an evil spirit while performing an exorcism, and so on. In all cases the relative 'downfall' is to purge this misidentification within the ego.
Different Levels of Consciousness Within the Soul
(Q1): Regarding evolutionary states: Can the individual parts of one's consciousness/mode of operating be in more than one evolutionary state at a time/relate to different levels; i.e., for some experiences or relationships the individual is in third stage individuated, yet for other experiences or relationships the individual is in second stage individuated or first stage spiritual?
(A): This is a very good question, but the answer is no. This is why it is so important to understand planetary phases and how different psychological archetypes as correlated to the planetary phases (for example, Mars/Venus) can be in different states of evolution relative to the phase itself. In essence, any given soul can be in whatever evolutionary condition, i.e., first stage individuated, and yet the various planetary phases will be different relative to their own evolution within the context of the actual evolutionary stage that the person is in.
This question refers back to the previous question, and this is exactly why a person, say in the first stage individuated, could 'appear' to manifest something that seemed like first stage spiritual; i.e., perhaps their Sun and Moon are in a balsamic phase in this life relative to their evolutionary condition. Yet the very essence of the balsamic phase is to 'universalize consciousness,' so there would be this dimension within them, but manifesting thru the first stage individuated.
(Q1): Would it be easier/more likely that a soul could move from one stage to another within the evolutionary stage/level they are in than to move to the next level of evolution/evolutionary stage? For example: would it be easier/more likely that a soul could move from first stage to second stage individuated than from the third stage individuated to the first stage spiritual?
(A): Yes, it is much easier to go from the first stage individuated to the second stage individuated, for example, than from third stage consensus to first stage individuated.
(Q2): Would there then manifest at some point within the Soul a sort of 'critical mass' that launches the individual from one state to the next? Do all the planetary archetypes within each of the different states of evolution one finds oneself in need to mature and become realized/integrated before the Soul can sequentially move onto the next state?
(Q1): I have a question, perhaps a dangerous one, underneath which you can probably see my fear. The soul completes things, sometimes with a lot of work. Simultaneously, there may be some bad karma operating. Is it possible for the 'bad' karma to progressively take over and start 'eating into' the good work the person has done? Is this what you mean by d-evolution? Or is it what's done is done and 'protected' somehow?
For example, when I apply this question to the human body, I can see that someone can take care of herself for a long time and be well and strong, and if she goes through a bad phase she can bounce back right away, perhaps bypassing the whole thing completely. But if the hard phase is bad enough, she can still get sick, even if she starts out very strong. and once she's sick it can still progress into even more sickness, complete degeneration. Or can it? For instance, what if someone who has had access to herbs and a warm bed and good food all their life suddenly finds themselves with nothing, on the streets, cold and wet? Or I am just making this scenario up in my head to back up my fear? Is the soul's thoroughly completed work 'protected/sealed'?
How far back can one de-evolve? How much, if at all, can harmful, all-over-the-place karma, like a free radical type of thing, take over good karma that is like healthy earthy light stuff, or something deeper than that?
(A): De-evolution only occurs when a soul has intentionally committed major sadistic acts against other people.
(Q2): Is it correct that the de-evolved can be from any of the other three natural evolutionary stages?
(Q3): Can drugs (narcotics) also cause de-evolution?
(A): No, but for some they can certainly slow down one's evolution.
"Dimly Evolved" Evolutionary Stage and De-evolution
(Q): I would like to suggest a new name for the "dimly evolved" evolutionary stage. I sense that perhaps you're also not entirely satisfied with this name , as it can support the idea that they are "inferior." How about the "Gate stage" as the name? As most of these souls have just crossed the "gate" into human consciousness, and that takes lots of evolution and perhaps courage. This name may give this stage more dignity.
(A): Yes, I have never been very comfortable with that term because of what it can imply to folks, so thanks for the suggestion. Another one that came to me was 'newly evolved.'
(Q): Yes, that sounds better. The only problem I feel with that, is that some souls in this stage are de-evolved, so not all of them are really "new." I also have a feeling that the "gate" is actually open for both directions, is that right?
(Q): I feel that the de-evolved soul can be forced backward to that gate if they maintain their negative intention long enough on the soul level. Is that true?
(A): Yes, but such a negative intention would have to be specific to the conscious desire to hurt people, sadistically so.
(Q): I feel that free will combined with the law of intention-action-reaction leading to karma-responsibility does not "force" us in the right direction, it just allows us to find it, so it does not "force" us to evolve. The only "force" is karma, and yet we have a choice how we react to that, and on which desires we act upon, so that we're fairly "free" to go forward or backward as we choose.
(A): Yes, but 'karma' follows and is an extension of the nature of one's desires; it does not lead.
(Q): For example, didn't we just go backward on the collective level through the patriarchy?
(A): From the point of view of progressive violations and distortions to natural law and natural consciousness one could perceive it that way, but on the other hand, all is necessary in the long run, the big picture.
Evolutionary Stages of Couples
(Q): I have a question that pertains to the evolutionary stages of couples and the composite chart. For example, my wife is in the second stage individuated and I am in the first stage spiritual. What stage would the relationship function within? Would it vacillate between the spiritual and individuated, or would there be a meeting of the souls somewhere in between, i.e., in my example, the third stage individuated? I'm aware of the fact that much has to do with the makeup of the particular synastry dynamic; however, I wonder if there is a general model that you could provide. As we know, many people form relationships with others that are not evolutionarily equal for a myriad of reasons. I would like to know if there is a particular way in which to avoid the potential for frustration or an attitude of superiority within the partner that is further along in their growth than the other.
(A): The fact that you are further along in your evolution than your wife has the effect of helping the wife evolve forwards towards, in her case, the third stage individuated. For you, this will have the effect of making you feel that you are going backwards instead of forwards. There is no 'midpoint' between a couple when the evolutionary stages are different. The only way to avoid the feeling of frustration or superiority is to understand the evolutionary or karmic causes that have created the unequal situation in the first place and to accept the responsibility for your own actions or desires that is the cause of the situation in the first place.
Archetypes and Evolutionary Stages
(Q): I've been reviewing the tapes on archetypes, since knowing them is the key to proper interpretation, and I need some clarity upon what part of the archetype is most active given the particular evolutionary stage. For instance, if a soul is in the herd state, with Pluto in Virgo for example, would the more mundane expressions of Virgo be active in this soul, i.e., crisis/humiliation, concentration on what is imperfect, pessimism, masochism/sadism, destructive habits, health issues, atonement/suffering for unworthiness, etc.?
Does the evolutionary condition dictate what aspects of any particular archetype are being used by a soul due to its evolutionary condition? Can someone in the herd state express the higher manifestation of Virgo, i.e., seeking the divine within, contact with the inner Godhead, self-examination/improvement and so on? Are these the manifestations of someone in the spiritual or individuated states? Am I getting some insight here or not?
(A): The archetypes - in total - of any sign, house, or planet are active within all evolutionary stages. The specific evolutionary condition then determines the extent, or depth, of how much of the archetypes within a sign, etc., are developed or accessed. A person with Mercury in Virgo in the consensus state, for example will have just as much of an analytical mind as does the person in the spiritual state. The issue becomes the content of what is being analyzed, with the content being determined by the specific evolutionary condition.
Evolutionary Stage - Third Stage Consensus to First Stage Individuated
(Q): I'm trying to determine the evolutionary stage of this client. She has Pluto at 2 Leo in in 2nd house conjunct Mercury at 1 Leo in the 2nd and Mars at 10 Leo in the 3rd. The Sun is at 26 Cancer in the 2nd. All this opposes an 8th house Capricorn Moon, which forms the handle of a bucket. The nodal axis is: South Node in Aries in the 11th house, with the North Node opposite. Venus is at 26 Gemini in the 1st house, and Mars squares a Jupiter/Saturn balsamic conjunction in Taurus in the 11th. Venus is inconjunct the 8th house Capricorn Moon. Also, Uranus is in Taurus in the 12th house.
This is the information she wants from a reading: when she is going to get a new job (the one she has is way 'beneath' her); how much money can she expect, and what is going to happen with her social life? She supposedly has been studying with a mentor from India for the last 20 years and meditates, but has never accessed any past life information. In her own words, she has described herself as "Ms. IBM" (she works with computers) and a gray flannel bitch. She has a stuffed shark sitting on her desk, and she said "there's a reason that's sitting here." She "knows how to work the system - play the game and she'll milk this job so she can move on." She refers to herself and her friends as a "female rat pack." She was "born to be a star and will be one again." She refers to "power lunches and breakfasts," and what she wants to be is "a techie, a yuppie, with a little depth on the side." Her ideal job is working at NASA. It would appear she could be compensating, but she is so heavily invested in a power position and cash. Can you shed light on the evolutionary condition and how the meditating fits in with the heavy third stage consensus language?
(A): I would say that she is, in fact, in the third stage consensus, but right on the edge, got one foot tentatively in, the first stage individuated; thus, the India/meditation thing.
Evolutionary Stage of Children
(Q): When reading a chart for a young child, how do you decide the evolutionary state?
(A): One way is to determine the evolutionary stage of the child's parents. Typically, a child will either reflect the exact same stage, or in some cases be one stage ahead. Another way is to look deep into the child's eyes. Typically, a child in the consensus state will have rather 'dull' eyes, individuated much brighter, and the spiritual stage very, very bright. Another way is to observe the child's behavior, or have the parents describe the child's behavior. The description of the behavior should be able to clue you in as to the evolutionary state.
For example when Yogananda was a small child, shortly after the loss of his mother, he went into the attic of the house and sat down and demanded that God come to him, saying to God that he would not move from that spot until God/ess revealed him/herself. And, in fact, that is what happened in the form of Divine Mother. This was to replace his earthly mother.
Or it could be a child that simply conforms to consensus prescribed behavior without any rebellion at all, one who is told the 'rules', so to speak, and simply conforms without question. Or, it could be a child who, when progressively 'conditioned' by the nature of the consensus society, simply begins to rebel against this, typically asking 'why' is this? For example, when I had to tell my then five-year-old girl that she could not play football, which she wanted to do with the 'guys', she frowned deeply and utterly rebelled against this thought, asking, "Why Papa?" and when hearing the explanation said, "That's stupid Papa," and so on.