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Author Topic: JWG'S Planetary Method of Chart Interpretation ...  (Read 32877 times)
Rad
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« Reply #360 on: Mar 15, 2014, 06:10 AM »

Hi Gray, Ari, Gonzalo, and Upasika

Please let me know where you are with this last segment.

God Bless, Rad
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Upasika
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« Reply #361 on: Mar 16, 2014, 03:25 PM »

Hi Rad,

My situation has progressed a bit (am in the new place) but everything is only half unpacked, and am also still very behind on my current work. Plus I need to visit my mother who lives in another area of the country quite urgently. So as a result I am still quite a long way off getting it done, probably one to two months realistically. It is a priority for me though, so I will be doing it as soon as I can.

blessings Upasika
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #362 on: Mar 17, 2014, 08:15 AM »

Hi Rad
I'm still at the very beginning in this analysis. I have read, and will read again the posts on the collective unconscious in the Neptune thread, which has been useful for my understanding of the archetype. While I have some insights about what the 'contents' can be within this symbol, I still am not sure how to interpret what the intentions, orientation to the archetype, and responses are in general, implied in the same Neptune, 12th House, Pisces archetype in a birthchart, in relation with those contents.    
God Bless, Gonzalo
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2014, 08:35 AM by Gonzalo » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #363 on: Mar 17, 2014, 08:40 AM »

HI Gonzalo,

Let me know how I can help you with this. Also, there are the other archetypes to Neptune that you could address and simply bypass this particular one on the collective unconscious/ consciousness.

God Bless, Rad
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #364 on: Mar 17, 2014, 09:55 AM »

Hi Rad,
Thank you so much again. I feel I would like to understand and apply the collective unconscious/consciousness dimension of the Neptune archetype. If it is ok, I’m briefly posting what I got to date, so I can ask if it is on the right track.

With Neptune in the 12th House Sagittarius this reflects the natural unity within consciousness, and within the collective unconscious, experienced in natural times before patriarchy-Saturn conjunct-of the whole of Nature and the Manifest Creation. Thus, there is a theme of ‘Paradise lost’ because of Neptune’s south node ruler being Uranus in Scorpio in the 11th House, this Uranus ruling the 3rd House which contains all the Pisces intercepted and Pluto, this reflecting various types of traumas of individual and collective nature, leading to a questioning about the underlying natural laws which are in the basis of such collective experiences; within this, a questioning about the nature of ‘evil’, not necessarily evil only in a metaphysical or proper sense, but also as the questioning about how that which does not work, that which falls, fails, breaks down, or dies, as a part of a ‘fallen’ Nature is contemplated and is a part within a larger scheme. With the south node of Neptune in the 2nd House conjunct Chiron and Uranus in Scorpio in the 11th House, types of collective traumas include episodes of extinction of large groups or humanity in general. Thus, the questioning being also triggered by the survival instinct. With Uranus being in the 11th House Scorpio, relative to Neptune in the 12th House, and Pisces intercepted within the 3rd House, this questioning has led to ways on understanding based on duality, or in a fragmentation of forces interacting within Creation, in various ways along many lifetimes. Thus, different dualistic cosmologies, as cosmologies in which Creation is not created by God, but by some 'fallen' god or demiurge.

Also, there is a dual orientation and response to the collective unconscious/consciousness dimensions, because on one side there is a permeating orientation to unite with these contents-Neptune 12th House, all the Pisces- and also a need to detach and individuate from these same contents –Uranus 11th House, Aquarius on the 3rd House cusp-in order to understand objectively what the underlying Natural laws are, in contrast with beliefs and invented cosmologies about the nature of Creation, the nature of those forces, etc.
Both dual orientations are based at their core on desires to know the origin of everything, either directly, or through formalization and creation of explanations and systems that give account of the known. This last aspect has also been connected with desires to ‘unite’ with social forms and structures, social contexts in which teachings about Nature were very attuned to actual reality or made ultimate sense to Darwin’s Soul.

The duality has also been a source of intense polarization of forces within those cosmologies his Soul has gravitated to in the past, and from which the Soul has needed to individuate. This individuation would then lead into a form of Pantheism, in which, through the intuition of Spirit within matter, matter is recovered in some ways.

The intention in place with Neptune in Sagittarius within the 12th House and Pluto and the Pisces planets within the 3rd House, would be to know and realize exactly what is true and what is not true, in how Nature works, and to dissolve prior beliefs, assumptions and opinions which permeate the collective unconscious/consciousness and which have been adhered to in the Soul’s past.

Within the conflict between desires to unite with and osmose belief systems which explain the nature of things, and the desires to detach and liberate from these systems in order to have direct experience, the intention –however conditioned by other desires in the birthchart as we have seen- would be based on desires to find shortcuts, to get to know quicker, by recurring to the pre-existing knowledge forms, knowledge put together by others within the collective, in order to test these knowledge forms through intellectual experimentation, with the risk however of confusion or over-identification with knowledge which is not actual knowledge.

Thanks so much, Rad for your guidance and teaching
God Bless, Gonzalo
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ari moshe
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« Reply #365 on: Mar 17, 2014, 11:12 AM »

Hi Rad, I have not gotten started on this yet. What I am going to do right now is designate a day and set slots of time for this week and next for this last segment.
With love
Ari Moshe
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Gray
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« Reply #366 on: Mar 17, 2014, 11:15 AM »

I am also only at an early stage of my analysis and I am also, like Gonzalo, trying to get a better understanding. I have noticed the Neptune thread and how you recently addressed the collective unconscious/conscious so I am working on understanding this better.  I feel like I understand the concept very well, it is more about how to actually determine how that operates through the birth chart I am trying to understand more clearly.  

Thank you, Gonzalo, for sharing what you have so far as this will help me.

Also, Rad you mentioned this in the set-up and I am feeling it applies to Darwin:

"Within this archetype thus lies the phenomena of martyrdom which is all about self sacrifice. In turn this can lead to masochism that itself has two types. (1) 'spiritual' and (2) psycho-pathological. An example of the spiritual masochism would be Jesus on the Cross. Psycho-pathological masochism is caused by a deep sense of inner guilt that needs to be 'atoned' for. Thus, the Soul creating circumstances for itself to be abused in various ways by others, or itself.

Additionally, within this archetype relative to the perversion of the consciousness of the Soul creating the need to be served by the whole can lead to the archetype of sadism: the need to punish others because of not being served in the ways that the Soul deems it needs to be within itself. Within the consciousness of sadism also lies the dynamic of guilt, a guilt that is rooted in violations of natural laws. This guilt in turn creates an inner anger within the consciousness of the Soul that then blames others for being the cause of it's guilt and the resulting anger. Thus, the need to punish others because of.

It should now be clear that both psycho-pathological masochism and sadism are rooted in invented cosmologies by humans that themselves are not rooted in the Natural Laws set in motion by the Source of All Things. The avenging 'god', or the 'god' that needs human sacrifice, the 'god' that says human sexuality is evil, and so on and so forth. "

We have already discussed Darwin's soul carrying some guilt and anger, so I am assuming that this "psyho-pathological masochism" also applies to his soul- am I correct?

Thank you for your guidance,
Gray
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Rad
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« Reply #367 on: Mar 18, 2014, 07:23 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

Yes, you are very much on the right understanding and approach relative to the relationship of Darwin's Soul to the collective unconsciousness/ consciousness and his own individuation from it. His individuation from it, over many, many lifetimes, finally lead to the life of his Soul being Darwin who then radically altered, Uranus the ruler of his S.Node of Neptune, being in Scorpio in the 11th, how the human species understood their own origins relative to the Natural Law of evolution. Thus, this one singular Soul affecting the very nature of the collective consciousness, his N.Node of Neptune being in Leo in the 9th which is ruled by his Aquarius Sun in the 2nd, in such a way that the understandings that he taught the human organism through his 'radical' book called the 'Origins of the Species" will stand for all time.

So, yes, you are on the right track ............

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #368 on: Mar 18, 2014, 07:35 AM »

I am also only at an early stage of my analysis and I am also, like Gonzalo, trying to get a better understanding. I have noticed the Neptune thread and how you recently addressed the collective unconscious/conscious so I am working on understanding this better.  I feel like I understand the concept very well, it is more about how to actually determine how that operates through the birth chart I am trying to understand more clearly.  

Thank you, Gonzalo, for sharing what you have so far as this will help me.

Also, Rad you mentioned this in the set-up and I am feeling it applies to Darwin:

"Within this archetype thus lies the phenomena of martyrdom which is all about self sacrifice. In turn this can lead to masochism that itself has two types. (1) 'spiritual' and (2) psycho-pathological. An example of the spiritual masochism would be Jesus on the Cross. Psycho-pathological masochism is caused by a deep sense of inner guilt that needs to be 'atoned' for. Thus, the Soul creating circumstances for itself to be abused in various ways by others, or itself.

Additionally, within this archetype relative to the perversion of the consciousness of the Soul creating the need to be served by the whole can lead to the archetype of sadism: the need to punish others because of not being served in the ways that the Soul deems it needs to be within itself. Within the consciousness of sadism also lies the dynamic of guilt, a guilt that is rooted in violations of natural laws. This guilt in turn creates an inner anger within the consciousness of the Soul that then blames others for being the cause of it's guilt and the resulting anger. Thus, the need to punish others because of.

It should now be clear that both psycho-pathological masochism and sadism are rooted in invented cosmologies by humans that themselves are not rooted in the Natural Laws set in motion by the Source of All Things. The avenging 'god', or the 'god' that needs human sacrifice, the 'god' that says human sexuality is evil, and so on and so forth. "

We have already discussed Darwin's soul carrying some guilt and anger, so I am assuming that this "psyho-pathological masochism" also applies to his soul- am I correct?

Thank you for your guidance,
Gray

Hi Gray,

To me this would be specifically true relative to all the physical problems he created in his body that are rooted in his past, a past that all of you who have developed this EA analysis of Darwin has so wonderfully understood, wherein within his Soul we could hear his own inner voice saying something to the effect of 'I deserve this punishment and pain because ............".

On the other hand with the symbols of Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House that we are examining now I would say that, at a professional level, Saturn/Neptune in the 12th that squares all those Pisces planets in his 3rd including Pluto itself, his Soul, that by publishing his book that he set himself up to be a 'martyr' for the cause that he inwardly believed in: to help humanity understand the Natural Law of evolution which then had a revolutionary affect on the entire world of evolutionary biology. It became the very basis of evolutionary biology. And, of course, all that he wrote and taught then challenged the authority of the Church, and religions in general, and the reactions to him because of this.  He knew that would happen. Thus, martyring himself for the larger end/ purpose of which his work spoke too.

God Bless, Rad
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Gray
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« Reply #369 on: Mar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM »

Dear Rad,

I am still thinking about Neptune in relation to Darwin and the collective unconscious/conscious.  I feel like as far as a symbol of what sort of collective unconscious and collective conscious was impacting Darwin at the time, I at least have some solid ideas already.

What I am not sure if I am clearly understanding or not is how Saturn is functioning as a filter to his awareness of the collective unconscious and conscious since it is in a close balsamic conjunction to Neptune (then it is also in square to the Pisces Pluto-Mercury-Ceres).  Does it mean that both the collective unconscious and conscious could flood the structure of his consciousness at times, that he would at least on a subconscious level have access to this information he could perceive and communicate? One point about the collective conscious for example, I feel with the Saturn-Neptune he was very tuned into to it- as the example that Wallace was working on the exact same idea at the same time attests.

Or would it be more of a filter, blocking his conscious access to collective unconscious memories and perceptions to a large extent more so than allowing a large amount of the collective to filter through.  I get the idea that Saturn is involved with his internal criticism, and no doubt the "psycho-pathological masochism" aspect of his Neptune archetype.  Or, is it the idea that all of this is happening at the same time?


Thank you again for this opportunity to work with you on Darwin-
Gray
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2014, 11:48 PM by Gray » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #370 on: Mar 26, 2014, 07:23 AM »

Hi Gray,

Dear Rad,

I am still thinking about Neptune in relation to Darwin and the collective unconscious/conscious.  I feel like as far as a symbol of what sort of collective unconscious and collective conscious was impacting Darwin at the time, I at least have some solid ideas already.

What I am not sure if I am clearly understanding or not is how Saturn is functioning as a filter to his awareness of the collective unconscious and conscious since it is in a close balsamic conjunction to Neptune (then it is also in square to the Pisces Pluto-Mercury-Ceres).  Does it mean that both the collective unconscious and conscious could flood the structure of his consciousness at times, that he would at least on a subconscious level have access to this information he could perceive and communicate?


********

Yes, and by any consciousness of any Soul, including Darwin, that 'flooding' into the individual consciousness of a Soul creates a natural physiological reaction to this which, in turn, affects the natural individuation process that exists in all Souls. In essence, that physiological reaction affects the overall proportions of the physiology of the brain in such a way as to 'individualize' the brain of any given Soul. This natural process of any Soul's desire to individuate from the collective of all Souls then reflects the individual ongoing evolutionary journey of each Soul. The individual evolutionary journey of any given Soul becomes the DETERMINANT of how that individual Soul is thus ORIENTATED to the collective unconscious/ consciousness.

************

One point about the collective conscious for example, I feel with the Saturn-Neptune he was very tuned into to it- as the example that Wallace was working on the exact same idea at the same time attests.

Or would it be more of a filter, blocking his conscious access to collective unconscious memories and perceptions to a large extent more so than allowing a large amount of the collective to filter through.

***********

The filter, as you put it, of his Saturn/Neptune conjunction operates in such a way that his Soul unconsciously 'tuned into' the the parts of the collective unconscious that was/ is linked to the desire in all humans to understand their origins: Saturn/ Neptune in Sagittarius in the 12th House that is then squaring all those Pisces Planets in his 3rd including the very nature of his own Soul structure. With his Soul structure thus attuned this then set in motion the physiological reactions within his brain that allowed him to individuate in exactly the way that he did. And, in so doing, affect the ongoing understanding of all humans relative to their origins: his affect upon the existing nature of the collective consciousness of that time which has been progressively receding into the collective unconscious as the collective consciousness accepts the truths he realized relative to the natural laws of evolution for all forms of life.

************

 I get the idea that Saturn is involved with his internal criticism, and no doubt the "psycho-pathological masochism" aspect of his Neptune archetype. Or, is it the idea that all of this is happening at the same time?

***********

It is all happening at the same time within his Soul.

*********


Thank you again for this opportunity to work with you on Darwin-
Gray

************

And thank you too Gray for putting all the energy you have into EA in general, and this and other threads specifically.


God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Mar 26, 2014, 08:08 AM by Rad » Logged
Gray
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« Reply #371 on: Mar 26, 2014, 02:53 PM »

Thank you Rad,

I completely understand.  This may take me some time to write about, however.  I will be working on it.

with love and gratitude,
Gray

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Gonzalo
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« Reply #372 on: Mar 27, 2014, 09:45 AM »

Hi Rad and Gray

Thanks for this. 

Quote
Yes, and by any consciousness of any Soul, including Darwin, that 'flooding' into the individual consciousness of a Soul creates a natural physiological reaction to this which, in turn, affects the natural individuation process that exists in all Souls. In essence, that physiological reaction affects the overall proportions of the physiology of the brain in such a way as to 'individualize' the brain of any given Soul. This natural process of any Soul's desire to individuate from the collective of all Souls then reflects the individual ongoing evolutionary journey of each Soul. The individual evolutionary journey of any given Soul becomes the DETERMINANT of how that individual Soul is thus ORIENTATED to the collective unconscious/ consciousness.

Rad, could you please provide some further explanation of this dynamic?

I wonder if the 'flood' of contents of the collective unconscious/consciousness occur at a physiological level by an increased release of oxytocin, like an oxytocin rush ?

Oxytocin is considered to be connected with social bonding, and social defense. Also, "there is some evidence that oxytocin promotes ethnocentric behavior, incorporating the trust and empathy of in-groups with their suspicion and rejection of outsiders (Wikipedia)".  The collective unconscious has divisions in it that correspond to the collective unconscious of the race, the country, or the tribe. It seems like these types of group-identification, ie. 'this is my tribe, and 'we' are different from that other tribe' existed/exists in natural humans under natural law. Thus, it looks like a natural function of oxytocin would be promoting identification and bonding with the own group? .. thus oxytocin would be directly involved in individuation, ie. becoming a minority through association with a more defined group as compared with a larger group, in order to progressively become a group of one. Both dynamics involved, ie. bonding with a smaller group and differentiating from a larger group, seem to be dependent on oxytocin.

God Bless, Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #373 on: Mar 28, 2014, 05:03 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

I can't example this anymore than I have. You seemed to have grasped it earlier when you asked me to look at your work in relation to this, and I responded that you had.

The collective unconscious / consciousness includes the totality of all humanity. Of course, within that, there are all kinds of groupings of humans by race, geography, time/ place, and so on. Each of these has their own history's as do all existing groups of humans in every possible way humans can group themselves sociologically. Oxytocin is one of the physiological substances that correlate with this in terms of the Soul/ ego identifying with specific groups that there are born into, and reflect the heritage of whatever group that is. This is much more about a sociological / identity function than one of orientating the Soul to the totality of the collective consciousness/ unconsciousness. Melatonin, a hormone, has much more to do with this than oxytocin. Oxytocin would more specifically correlate with Uranus because of this whereas melatonin specifically correlates with Neptune.

All of this goes into the collective consciousness/ unconsciousness that any Soul lives within, at any point in time. Each Soul has a natural individuation desire relative to the totality of humanity, and the totality of whatever specific group of humans it is born into. That desire is universal in all humans: it is a Natural Law. That desire also reflects the ongoing evolutionary progression of any Soul with it's own history leading to whatever current life. When that interfaces with the collective consciousness/ unconscious this naturally affects and determines the total physiological response within the brain in such a way as to orientate that brain, and the Soul consciousness with it, to the collective in general, and it's specific groups of humans that it has chosen to be born into specifically. Thus, orientated the Soul individuates from that in such a way as to progress on it's own intended evolutionary journey that then, of itself, affects the collective consciousness in some way. For most that is quite minimal on an individual level yet each individual does add to the whole. In rare cases, like Darwin, that individuation process then affects and reflects how, at times, any one Soul can have such a revolutionary affect on collective consciousness so that the collective itself can evolve.

God Bless, Rad



« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2014, 05:30 AM by Rad » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #374 on: Mar 30, 2014, 08:56 AM »

Hi Rad
Thanks so much for the detailed response. Yes, I already grasped some about the contents within the collective unconscious/consciousness. What intrigued me in Gray's question and your response was specific on the physiological application, and the brain.

God Bless, Gonzalo
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