Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Astrologer/client relationship  (Read 2174 times)
Linda
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 905



« on: Mar 25, 2013, 07:05 PM »

Hi Rad,

On the one hand, the astrologer delves very deeply and thoroughly into chart dynamics in order to uncover not only the bottom line, but to answer many questions the client may have, and to give out much information about the chart.  On the other hand, this "delving deeply" process (Scorpio) can sometimes be TOO deep, causing re-traumatization at worst for a client because the exposed and objectified dynamics may be too difficult to integrate so suddenly.  Since the astrologer's own dynamics are at play as well, I am talking about the astrologer/client "relationship."

I learned a valuable lesson from a highly experienced EA member that basically we are here to help others, not to make things worse for clients by being overly concerned with our performance.  To tread lightly, let the Higher Power guide, and be of service so that the little pointers we make can work for clients by adding insight and understanding into the dynamics unfolding for them.  Studying and practicing astrology takes an enormous amount of effort and energy that hones skills over time.  

I guess I'm talking about the Scorpio/Aquarius SQUARE (depth and trauma) and how to traverse these areas so that further damage will not take place.

For example, a client I had several years ago stated, "Tell it to me like it is... tell all... do not hold back," etc. but when I did exactly as she asked, this had an emotionally traumatizing effect upon her.  I would not wish for that to happen again.

I'm hoping that you and the EA astrologers on this MB can share their experiences, and offer some guidance.

Love,

Linda
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2013, 10:48 PM by Linda » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 18956


« Reply #1 on: Mar 26, 2013, 08:30 AM »

Hi Linda,

This question that you have brought up is so very important to all counselors including astrologers. I can only answer for myself, and sure hope others to share their own perspectives as well.

For myself what I have LEARNED to do over a great length of time is to ask the client exactly the questions that they have for the astrological reading, and then sticking to those questions. In the course of answering certain questions that are linked to unresolved trauma(s) I will always go very slow and making sure the client wished to proceed at every step. If the client says 'enough' then  of course I stop right then and there.

I have found this approach works in almost every single case of counseling clients.

God Bless, Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 345


« Reply #2 on: Mar 26, 2013, 01:38 PM »

Hi Linda,

I know what Rad means when he talks about "learning" what works in this regard, as I have learnt the hard way, just like you, that it needs a great deal of skill/care to get it right! One example from a long time ago was a couple that came to me, who had recently got together, and wanted me to tell them "all about their relationship". Naively I gave them a good rounded view of their relationship, including a short spiel on some difficult Pluto stuff that they would need to understand, but they said it had not been a problem at all, their love was really strong and they went away happy enough. However I found out later that they split about 3 weeks after they had seen me. I was a bit shocked as they had been truly "in love" when I had seen them - it was a very nice vibe.

I then realised that if I had never mentioned the Pluto stuff they probably would have had at least a full year of happiness in their relationship before it would have come up naturally for them. And I felt so bad that I had "taken" that year of enjoying themselves away from them, that I didn't do any relationship astrology for about 5 years after that!

Another time someone came for a reading and they had Pluto Scorpio in the 8th, SN in Scorpio 9th -NN Taurus 3rd with a Jupiter skipped step in 12th. I could see they had spent lifetimes intellectualising about fairness and spirituality as a way to avoid the Scorpio/8th issues. So I worked with this in the reading, but unfortunately this offended their sensibilities and they later complained they weren't expecting that, they had gone for an "astrology reading". I did sort it out with them, but then afterwards I decided to check our synastry, and discovered quite a few connection including my Jupiter opposite theirs ... they had come to me in previous lives with the same result! (wish I'd checked that first)

I agree ... one learns. I learnt to always ask at the beginning what they are expecting, and try to stick to that. Also I always check my synastry with them, just in case we have any "history" from previous lives that I should be consciously aware of. And if someone asks as they often do, "oh..I'm just curious, you just tell me what you see", I get them to do the talking at the beginning and tell me A LOT (more than usual) about themselves, so I can more easily guage what might be appropriate to tell them.

Just a bit on my major learnings.

blessings Upasika
Logged
Linda
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 905



« Reply #3 on: Mar 26, 2013, 04:14 PM »

Hi Linda,

This question that you have brought up is so very important to all counselors including astrologers. I can only answer for myself, and sure hope others to share their own perspectives as well.

For myself what I have LEARNED to do over a great length of time is to ask the client exactly the questions that they have for the astrological reading, and then sticking to those questions. In the course of answering certain questions that are linked to unresolved trauma(s) I will always go very slow and making sure the client wished to proceed at every step. If the client says 'enough' then  of course I stop right then and there.

I have found this approach works in almost every single case of counseling clients.

God Bless, Rad


Hi Rad,

Thank you so much Rad for sharing your method of how to deal with counseling clients.  I have recently employed this method too.  I ask the client if they have any specific questions.  I also explain that an astrology reading cannot be carried out without first examining the bottom-line of the chart.  I always, without exception, do a thorough bottom-line interpretation, then answer any questions according to that bottom-line. 

Love,

Linda
Logged
cat777
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 255


« Reply #4 on: Mar 26, 2013, 05:10 PM »

Hi Linda and All,

It's not always easy is it?  First off, I am not a professional astrologer so I don't have to worry about these things as much as those of you who are. That said, I have friends who know that I study astrology so they naturally ask me questions from time to time.  One friend once asked me to look at her chart and see how she would do on a final exam.  I looked and it did not look good.  I decided to act like a flake and pretend that I forgot to look.  Why?  I was afraid that if I told her it was not a good day for her to take the exam, I might cause her to do bad by putting that idea in her head.  So, I didn't tell her anything and she failed the exam.  I was grateful that I didn't say anything as if I had, and she failed (like she did),  I know I would feel guilty as I would always wonder if it were my fault for planting the seed. Of course, if I had warned her maybe things would have turned out differently?  I don't know.  I just decided it was best to stay out of it.  Anyhow, Upasika's story about the couple reminded me of this. 

I also remember (I think we discussed this at the time, Linda) that I shared a paragraph from an Alice Bailey book with a friend.  It was about animals and karma.  She said  "We eat animals because they used to eat us."  My friend shared this with a co-worker and her co-worker started crying.   My reaction was "why?"  My friend pointed out that some things are just too heavy for some people to think about. Although I thought this was an interesting and perhaps profound way of looking at this, I didn't perceive it as "heavy" - but this woman sure did.

In the end, we have to be careful but we can't always avoid answering people's questions.  Sometimes we might go "oooops, maybe I shouldn't have said that."  When we do have those experiences, its because we needed to! Its all for a reason and every mistake has a purpose (as you know)  :-)

cat

Logged
Sunyata
Active Member
*
Posts: 111


« Reply #5 on: Mar 26, 2013, 05:42 PM »

When I had my reading with JWG in the early 90's his approach was simply, "what do you want to know?" At one point I asked what my life was just before this one and he said, "Do you really want to know?"  and I said, "yes." Then he asked again with a sigh and a smile, "Are you sure you want to know?" Clearly he saw the trauma but at that point it was my decision and I said, "yes." It was revealing and and tough for him to relate it to me because he had to 'see' it but it was my choice at that point and it lead into other topics that I wouldnt have asked about otherwise. I think as an astrologer if you see something that may be traumatic for the client to hear just let them know that you see something that they may not want to hear and then if they choose to hear it at that point then it is their choice.....its the astrologers choice how to present it in the gentlest way possible. Readings are a two way street.

Sunyata
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 345


« Reply #6 on: Mar 26, 2013, 08:29 PM »

Hi all,

Thanks Cat & Sunyata for more interesting comments. Seems the consensus building here is - to ask what someone wants and only give what is asked for. And as a general rule of thumb maybe that applies to all helping professions...

I like what you say Cat that even mistakes with a reading are all part of the plan, and are for a reason. I agree, and I've always felt getting the relationship right was something that had to be learnt, and for that mistakes are part of learning. But learn you do. Also Sunyata, that it is a two way street. That becomes very clear. And a variation of that too I've found, is that if I deal with something (say for arguments sake "sadness") with the person, then later on whatever I may have within me around sadness that is unprocessed will come up - out of the blue, sometimes very soon afterwards, and suddenly. I get to deal with my sadness, even if up until then I had absolutely no conscious feeling of sadness in me. This may have more to do with me & my particular astro makeup, or it may be a general phenomena ... I'm not sure. But I am well used to it now when it still occasionally happens - another take on it being a two way street.

On a different note - sometimes I've been to doctors/healers and asked for what I thought I needed to help heal my body, which to varying extents they've given me according to their skills/methodology/policies, but it hasn't really worked, or its worked partially. And I've ended up frustrated that it wasn't really a good result. I often wished they would have done more but in reality I didn't ask for it as I didn't know how - my body knew but I couldn't translate it into words that made sense for the doctor.

However a little while ago I went to a new doctor, and he is getting fantastic results in a very short space of time. He isn't giving me what I asked for - we actually had a mild level of conflict on our first appointment! Basically he disagreed that what I was asking from him would get me what I needed. He stated that my needs were different in such a firm way that it alarmed me. I thought "its my body surely". In the end he said ... it's up to you, you decide what it's to be.

I went away and let it rumble inside, then realised the chances are he may well be right. No-one else had bothered that much ... ahh you want this? OK I'll give you this. I am so grateful that he insisted on what I actually needed, not what I thought I needed.

And I jumped into his process, even though its by far the most expensive. However even though it's early days I now start to think it may be what I've been looking for for years - wished I'd found him at the beginning. And because of the contrast created by that initial resistance then cooperation, as a byproduct we are now also becoming good friends.

This situatiion can also occur in other fields - it's a natural human thing, to resist. And I feel sometimes people come for help, with their resistance but also despite their resistance, and sometimes its a blessing for them to hear what they need, and not what they want. As gently as possible, but with persistent firmness so that their resistance is gently, gradually swept aside. If it's clear that that's what they really want. Just sometimes it is. I find it takes deep trust in oneself that you've read the situation right, deep trust in EA, compassion for the other - to be safe it's often easier to say you can't help - and courage to follow through.

I recently had another situation like this. And it was very rewarding when they later got back to me, and said how quite a long time afterwards they'd had a deep insight into their block against feeling xyz - a core issue we struggled to talk about because they weren't always comforable but I had persisted - and how much better it felt that they weren't trapped inside that feeling anymore. That is when I silently bless EA that it helps me to help others, and that I can trust it. There is no other way I could have done that.

And other times, clearly what a person absolutely most needs is complete and total safety, and nothing else would be right.

So I think sometimes there may be exceptions to the general rule of thumb we all seem to gravitate towards, and with rule of thumb firmly on board I then take a case by case approach.

But that's just what I have come to, it's not perfect and is still a work in progress, I'm still finding my way.

Summarising all these descriptions of learnings given by everyone so far - for anyone just starting to give readings ... I'd recommend the rule of thumb that's emerged here: "don't give any more than what the client asks for, and even then tread carefully".

Make sure they are actually ready to hear what they have asked for, that they are presently capable of taking responsibility for their actions and thus this decision. But if you are sure they are, then it is their responsibility, and you can safely tell them whatever it is that they have asked. That said, it does take experience to really know all this in a reliable way, so be initially conservative in your assessments (for as long as it takes) until you have found your own way that you can rely upon. It's over time that this feeling for what your own way is/will be arises... Everyone comes to their way in their own timeframe, via their own pathway - astrology is Uranian after all.

blessings Upasika
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2013, 11:58 PM by Upasika » Logged
Linda
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 905



« Reply #7 on: Mar 27, 2013, 01:24 AM »

Hi Rad, Upasika, Cat and Sunyata:


It's been great reading your experiences! 

I am reminded of a humorous experience where I asked the client to ask some questions.  He could not think of any.  I gave him more time.  He then came up with 15 questions!  I faithfully answered each and every one of them to the best of my ability.  I felt the answers would provide some great and helpful insights into his dynamics.  This work took a considerable amount of time to carry out, like many days or weeks!  The result was that not only did he reject the reading, but I got traumatized myself!  I realized that by providing 'too much information' caused him to just switch off.  I was able to LEARN a valuable lesson.  I now limit the questions to about 4-6.  

Many people's expectations of an astrology reading is to receive some kind of personality report with predictions for their future.  Grin   One soon learns to spot the ones who are just looking for entertainment or an ego-prop.

I have found because most people do not associate evolution with an astrology reading that I now add an Introduction about how evolution works, such as this:

"Pluto represents your Soul and within that the Natural Law of evolution – there is always a past, a present and a future. The position of Pluto correlates to what the desires of your Soul have been that have lead to the current life (this is supported by the South Node and its ruler). All the other planets in the chart are created by your Soul for your ongoing evolutionary needs. You will naturally gravitate to the sign, house and aspects of Pluto (and the SN and its ruler) because these represent familiarity and security and what you already are. So that your Soul does not stagnate, it is necessary for you to transform any old, deep-seated behaviour patterns symbolized by Pluto because these old ways of doing things have become limited. The way your Soul evolves is through the polarity point of Pluto which represents the current life intention of your Soul. Your Soul needs to move forward and continue its journey of evolution and growth by developing and expressing the polarity point of Pluto energies and principles (supported by the North Node and its ruler)."


Love,

Linda
Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 18956


« Reply #8 on: Mar 27, 2013, 08:24 AM »

Hi Linda,

One more thing I would say about this is that when someone comes along and says 'I am just curious, tell me anything you see' that, at that point, the EA astrologer should inform such a person that is not what the EA astrologer does. Thus, look elsewhere.


God Bless, Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 345


« Reply #9 on: Mar 27, 2013, 01:16 PM »

Hi Rad,

I know you were answering Linda, but in those situations what you've said would make things a lot simpler and has rung a bell, so I've decided that's what I'll be doing from now on  - thank you.

Upasika
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1226


« Reply #10 on: Apr 12, 2013, 11:07 AM »

Hi everyone - finally reading through this thread. I appreciate this very much.

I have recently begun the practice of starting each session with a prayer that I recite out loud, so that the client can hear it as well. It generally goes something like this:

"I now dedicate this space in service for this soul ___. I intend and ask that my words are only an expression of the truth that is most relevent and helpful for this soul ___ at this time. I devote all that is shared and experienced here in this session for the highest good only. And so it is." I light a candle to focus that prayer. I also follow JWG's advice to keep a crystal between me and my client.

I find that offering that intention and then letting go allows me to be just completely present and to trust whatever is wanting to come through me. I have also learned to take pauses during the readings to go inside and reflect on my words whenever I don't feel totally certain about what to say or do. Very often I'm called to just be present with the client, to perhaps do some "off the chart" work for a time before getting back into sharing information.

With much love,
am
Logged
Wendy
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 452


« Reply #11 on: Apr 13, 2013, 09:45 AM »

Hi Upasika, and all...

What you have said about helping professions is true in my experience.  As a client and a practitioner of therapy, bodywork, astrology, etc....helping professions are just that, we are here to assist others in their process, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly.  When I have had readings or sessions with healers, astrologers, etc. who want me to move faster than I am ready, or forcefully provide information, it just doesn't help.  That said, I am open to honest and sometimes painful assessments that I need to hear to move on, or take responsibility for my soul, my life.

Clients usually call based on referral from my website or friend.  In the initial conversation I give an overview of my work, including its comprehensive and evolutionary perspectives.  This has certainly turned numerous perspective clients away, but it also provides a sorting that proves beneficial to both myself and perspective clients.  My own evolutionary signature and bodymind is geared to help others go deep and to evolve with compassion.  Those who are not ready for progressive and evolutionary themes, whether they be consensus or further along, usually go elsewhere within a short period of time when I stay true to my offerings and soul work.

In the astrology world, I have had readings from astrologers who look at my chart and have said things like, "wow, what a messy 4th house--have you cleaned it up yet," and an astrologer and teacher, not EA certified, but using EA principles, have seriously yelled their perspectives of my past lives to get me to "wake up".  

It's called a practice for good reason, we are practically and thus learning.  Mistakes are inevitable, and some seem more painful that others.  And I'm very grateful for the mature practitioners who have taught me and personally helped me know myself and my soul better.  They are the ones I have gleaned the most help and support from.

Picking up on another piece you mentioned Upasika - I have had numerous health issues throughout my life, especially in my early and late teen years and now.  I went to the hospital this past Wednesday and CAT scan showed mass on my adrenal gland and cysts in my liver.  I went into fear that night as I researched info about it.  I called a friend who is an acupuncturist and tantra healer.  His perspective was that I am in a bypass mode, and looking outward towards surgery, etc. and still holding onto the emotions from my life story, and the emotional body reflections that come up around me from others (that I could invite them into my kundalini energy and transform them into love).  While I appreciated his perspective, and can even surely admit bypass has been a huge part of my life experience, the physical issues I am dealing with have much more to do with being seriously depleted, in post menopause than me bypassing what my emotional body needs to process.  Without energy, the processing goes into the back seat.  Processing and clearly energy is not my issue as much as being able to build and store resources.  His words were given in love and I take them in love, and from my perspective bypass can happen in many ways, including kundalini transformation.  Been there and done that too many times, which has led me to where I am now, along with other challenges.  

If I had taken my friend's advice, I would not have listened to my intuition and be getting half of what I need, rather than getting to the core issue.  If there is further core dynamics to come up, which clearly there are, they will resolve as the physical body recovers to support the other bodies.  I have always said, "energy comes before matter".  Now I see that integration is the best avenue, and have a huge respect for EA and how it reveals the appropriate answer for each soul.  It's definitely not one size fits all.  

As soon as I realized it is my adrenal glands more than anything else, referrals and resources have appeared.  I am curious about the bypass topic and want to discuss more, so I will post this on that thread as well.  

Ari - thanks for sharing the prayer, and I love the crystal advice from JWG, they are very helpful.

Love,
Wendy
« Last Edit: Apr 13, 2013, 10:14 AM by Wendy » Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 345


« Reply #12 on: Apr 18, 2013, 03:49 AM »

Hi Ari, Wendy & all,

Ari that's really handy to hear what Jeffrey was saying about the cystal - thanks for that gem.

And Wendy, definitely relate to your feeling the issue is more physical for you in the first instance. The integrative naturopath/homeopath I am working with lately is sorting so much out for me, with a multifaceted replenishment & rebalancing restorative program. And now that my body's various organs and systems are functioning better and beneffiting from a greatly increased uptake of macro amd micro nutrients, I'm feeling better than I have in ages, including psychologically better. My adrenals and liver were also kaput, part of the problem, and I agree fixing them makes a big difference. (Everyone's different, but also dropping out ALL carbohydrates and sugar, and going gluten free, amongst other things, has had a big contribution to my turnaround too.)

Gone a bit off-topic here, but I agree - it's a balancing act between trusting your own intuition, trusting yourself, and opening up to take in what another has to share with you, or say to you. I can't recommend getting your adrenals and liver fixed highly enough though, it's a wonderful feeling when the body starts feeling and working like it should. Then sure ... from that point onwards there may be other non-physical issues to also attend to.

Sending you best wishes you can make good progress wih it all,
Upasika
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2013, 03:56 AM by Upasika » Logged
Wendy
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 452


« Reply #13 on: Apr 18, 2013, 08:40 AM »

Thanks Upasika.  I appreciate what you have shared.  Health in general certainly has a great deal to do with emotional balance and health.  And I'm glad to be happily on the healing path concurrent with natural law.  

Wondering if anyone one knows if kidney/adrenal organs are related to Scorpio/Pluto function.  I found a source on the internet that suggested Libra?

with love,
Wendy
Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 18956


« Reply #14 on: Apr 18, 2013, 09:55 AM »

Hi Wendy,

The adrenals correlate to Venus/ Mars. The kidneys are Venus/Neptune.


God Bless, Rad
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video