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Upasika
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« Reply #165 on: Mar 17, 2014, 03:05 PM »

Hi all,

Well I too recognised that Katherine seemed to have a much better general medical knowledge than most of us, and to me was writing very meaningfully on medical astrology which I certainly appreciated. I have a very basic knowledge of the body from a strictly medical point of view, and like Cat found it very limiting - I just felt I was trying to talk about something I have no idea of, and what was the point of that? Of course the value is in the effort but I felt I was just stabbing in the dark really - it just felt way over my head.

I did borrow a (huge) book on physiology and anatomy and started reading it. It was fascinating, and I was drawn into it for a whole day, during which time I read about 2% of it, and had a mind brimming with facts but no way of remembering them all, and the realisation this topic is HUGE. Much as I would have loved to continue I simply had no more time, and wont have time for that background reading in the foreseeable future. That's why I faded away.

But I would love to know how to do medical EA astrology, it fascinates me. So maybe sometime in the future I'll get a chance to finish reading that book and feel better equipped to have another go.

blessings Upasika

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Katherine
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« Reply #166 on: Mar 18, 2014, 05:22 AM »

Hi Katherine,

First, welcome back ! I noticed you joined Ari's new thread for EA beginners. Good for you.

I have had a fair amount of cases dealing with this. The one common denominator that I have found is one wherein such Souls have this extreme form of feeling 'entrapped' because of the birth of a baby. For those of us who have raised kids/ babies we know the total commitment in time/ space that this requires. For these women who do this the entrapment fear is triggered almost immediately because of the natural demands of the newborn.

Of course the radical shift in all the various hormones that takes place within the women's body/ brain after birth, which occurs to all women, can then manifest in these women to intensify/ magnify an INTRINSIC fear of entrapment within them. In other words, this fear of entrapment relative to commitments would pre-exist  within these women's Souls due to prior life circumstances that come forwards into the current life, and/ or pre-exist BEFORE the birth of the baby that has been caused in the context of the current life.

Archetypically, the fear of entrapment correlates with Scorpio, the 8th House, and Pluto. Mothering of course correlates with Cancer, Scorpio, and the 8th house. Children as an archetype correlates with the 5th House, Leo, and the Sun. This is naturally square the 8th House, etc. Thus, for some Soul's this natural square triggers this entrapment fear wherein the women feels she will have no life of her own, her own specific purpose, other than the commitment to the child, and it's needs.

And given that the natural polarity for Cancer, the Moon, and the 4th House is Capricorn, the 10th House, and Saturn this specifically correlates with the post par-tum depression that almost all mothers experience to some degree. When combined with the entrapment fear this then correlates to feeling that their only 'role' in life is to raise the kid(s). Thus, the feeling of being 'blocked' from doing anything other than this mothering/ parenting role. 

This is not to say that this is the total answer to all this. It is the one common denominator that I have found.  

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Way too long...  Thank you, I'm going to try.

And thank you for your response, which was so cogent and clear.  The square of Leo/Sun/5th to Scorpio/Pluto/8th and the opposition of Capricorn/Saturn/10th to Cancer/Moon/4th is evident to me now. (The piece about "suicide by proxy" and ego merging/ dissolve threw me off because the way it was described sounded insane and seemed to have a Neptunian delusional quality to it.)
The core feeling of entrapment (and the fear of entrapment) makes sense to me. So, in the (distorted) experience of being cornered it becomes a life or death situation to get out by any means... That makes any violence acted out toward the child very much a compulsion to eliminate the perceived source/cause of feeling utterly trapped in the role or function of being a mother. Psychotic rage in (irrational) self-defense.

To defend? Autonomy, 'freedom', more resources, more time... choice not linked to responsibility. How much do these murders, or volatile dynamics, point to an entrenched egocentric, narcissistic, or otherwise self-obsessed orientation in the mother's chart?

Thank you and,
God bless,
Katherine
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Rad
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« Reply #167 on: Mar 18, 2014, 07:04 AM »

Hi Katherine,

"To defend? Autonomy, 'freedom', more resources, more time... choice not linked to responsibility. How much do these murders, or volatile dynamics, point to an entrenched egocentric, narcissistic, or otherwise self-obsessed orientation in the mother's chart?""

***********

In many of these cases that answer is quite a bit. On the other hand, I have also seen many women who are in incredibly abusive relationships with their partner wherein those partner's are control freaks who attempt to repress the individual needs/ development of these women. Thus, to have another baby, or even the first, triggers this underlying fear of entrapment even further with the resulting, and all consuming, depression that can lead to the killing of the baby and/ or other children that are already in place.

God Bless, Rad
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Katherine
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« Reply #168 on: Mar 19, 2014, 02:49 AM »

Hi Katherine,

"To defend? Autonomy, 'freedom', more resources, more time... choice not linked to responsibility. How much do these murders, or volatile dynamics, point to an entrenched egocentric, narcissistic, or otherwise self-obsessed orientation in the mother's chart?""

***********

In many of these cases that answer is quite a bit. On the other hand, I have also seen many women who are in incredibly abusive relationships with their partner wherein those partner's are control freaks who attempt to repress the individual needs/ development of these women. Thus, to have another baby, or even the first, triggers this underlying fear of entrapment even further with the resulting, and all consuming, depression that can lead to the killing of the baby and/ or other children that are already in place.

God Bless, Rad


Hi Rad,
Yes, definitely. Thanks. Filicide as a desperate revenge and escape tactic... makes my chest hurt.
In situations where the father is not abusive or covertly manipulative (maybe not a great help, but also not a danger or significant source of stress) could the mother's narcissistic tendencies be likened to a pilot light and the physical and psychological shifts be the gas? (I know this is overly simplified, I just want to understand the dynamic in terms timing and root cause.)
If so, it would pull this segment out of the Medical thread. So, to wrap this up, the person/ reason why I brought this topic forward has been diagnosed with OCD but nothing is being done in her US medicine treatment plan of prescriptions and talk therapy to look at the extent of self-obsession that is her personal framework.
I don't have permission to post the chart, or I would. But I want to provide a small piece... in the 2nd house: Mars in Libra conjunct 10deg to Pluto in Scorpio which is 2deg from the South Node in Scorpio which is less than a degree from the Moon in Scorpio. (Pluto-SN-Moon has a total range of 2 degrees and 50 minutes)

Thank you, Rad.
God bless,
Katherine
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2014, 03:15 AM by Katherine » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #169 on: Mar 19, 2014, 06:20 AM »

Hi Katherine,

"To defend? Autonomy, 'freedom', more resources, more time... choice not linked to responsibility. How much do these murders, or volatile dynamics, point to an entrenched egocentric, narcissistic, or otherwise self-obsessed orientation in the mother's chart?""

***********

In many of these cases that answer is quite a bit. On the other hand, I have also seen many women who are in incredibly abusive relationships with their partner wherein those partner's are control freaks who attempt to repress the individual needs/ development of these women. Thus, to have another baby, or even the first, triggers this underlying fear of entrapment even further with the resulting, and all consuming, depression that can lead to the killing of the baby and/ or other children that are already in place.

God Bless, Rad


Hi Rad,
Yes, definitely. Thanks. Filicide as a desperate revenge and escape tactic... makes my chest hurt.
In situations where the father is not abusive or covertly manipulative (maybe not a great help, but also not a danger or significant source of stress) could the mother's narcissistic tendencies be likened to a pilot light and the physical and psychological shifts be the gas? (I know this is overly simplified, I just want to understand the dynamic in terms timing and root cause.)
If so, it would pull this segment out of the Medical thread. So, to wrap this up, the person/ reason why I brought this topic forward has been diagnosed with OCD but nothing is being done in her US medicine treatment plan of prescriptions and talk therapy to look at the extent of self-obsession that is her personal framework.
I don't have permission to post the chart, or I would. But I want to provide a small piece... in the 2nd house: Mars in Libra conjunct 10deg to Pluto in Scorpio which is 2deg from the South Node in Scorpio which is less than a degree from the Moon in Scorpio. (Pluto-SN-Moon has a total range of 2 degrees and 50 minutes)

Thank you, Rad.
God bless,
Katherine


******

Hi Katherine,

Well those symbols, the slice of the women's chart you posted, speak for themselves. You don't need to remove this subject/ topic from our medical thread.

God Bless, Rad
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Katherine
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Posts: 66


« Reply #170 on: Mar 21, 2014, 05:33 AM »

Hi all,

Well I too recognised that Katherine seemed to have a much better general medical knowledge than most of us, and to me was writing very meaningfully on medical astrology which I certainly appreciated. I have a very basic knowledge of the body from a strictly medical point of view, and like Cat found it very limiting - I just felt I was trying to talk about something I have no idea of, and what was the point of that? Of course the value is in the effort but I felt I was just stabbing in the dark really - it just felt way over my head.

I did borrow a (huge) book on physiology and anatomy and started reading it. It was fascinating, and I was drawn into it for a whole day, during which time I read about 2% of it, and had a mind brimming with facts but no way of remembering them all, and the realisation this topic is HUGE. Much as I would have loved to continue I simply had no more time, and wont have time for that background reading in the foreseeable future. That's why I faded away.

But I would love to know how to do medical EA astrology, it fascinates me. So maybe sometime in the future I'll get a chance to finish reading that book and feel better equipped to have another go.

blessings Upasika

Hi Upasika,
Um, thanks. And, I hear you. When researching becomes a task, especially with an elusive or ambitious aim, it becomes very difficult to create momentum.  Huge books are enthralling when you are motivated, but they become arduous when you are not. The left brain can be forced but, long term recall can be hazy and, sometimes negligible compared the time invested.  Trust: I have had my experiences with this, and the attendant feelings of overwhelm!

For you, and those who have a desire to learn EA medical astrology, as I do!, there can be many other ways toward understanding that you can practice (perhaps even daily) without enervation.  For example, for those who have been following the Neptune thread, for those who meditate and/or have a pranayamic practice (like the hong sau practice Wolf taught) start with the experience of the breath. Or, as an intellectual curiosity: why can't we choke ourselves to death? --> The properties and effects of oxygen link to the mechanics of respiration, as regulated by the brainstem, which is ruled by Pluto, which leads into the inconjunct of Aries to Scorpio, and the original anxiety of separation… and you’re right back into EA with an understanding of the human experience that you will carry with you through every session

Really, any seemingly inane interest you have in the body e.g. ‘I love receiving foot massage’, ‘Tape worms… ew.’ whatever, becomes an inroad to learning that feels natural.  So I would encourage you, and everyone, to find something about your experience in physical form that makes you wonder... and then chase it.

Or, you can wait for that big book to call again.
Either way, I wish you, and everyone who is making an effort known or unknown, all the best in learning EA. Godspeed.

God bless,
Katherine
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Katherine
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Posts: 66


« Reply #171 on: Mar 21, 2014, 05:54 AM »

Hi Katherine,

"To defend? Autonomy, 'freedom', more resources, more time... choice not linked to responsibility. How much do these murders, or volatile dynamics, point to an entrenched egocentric, narcissistic, or otherwise self-obsessed orientation in the mother's chart?""

***********

In many of these cases that answer is quite a bit. On the other hand, I have also seen many women who are in incredibly abusive relationships with their partner wherein those partner's are control freaks who attempt to repress the individual needs/ development of these women. Thus, to have another baby, or even the first, triggers this underlying fear of entrapment even further with the resulting, and all consuming, depression that can lead to the killing of the baby and/ or other children that are already in place.

God Bless, Rad


Hi Rad,
Yes, definitely. Thanks. Filicide as a desperate revenge and escape tactic... makes my chest hurt.
In situations where the father is not abusive or covertly manipulative (maybe not a great help, but also not a danger or significant source of stress) could the mother's narcissistic tendencies be likened to a pilot light and the physical and psychological shifts be the gas? (I know this is overly simplified, I just want to understand the dynamic in terms timing and root cause.)
If so, it would pull this segment out of the Medical thread. So, to wrap this up, the person/ reason why I brought this topic forward has been diagnosed with OCD but nothing is being done in her US medicine treatment plan of prescriptions and talk therapy to look at the extent of self-obsession that is her personal framework.
I don't have permission to post the chart, or I would. But I want to provide a small piece... in the 2nd house: Mars in Libra conjunct 10deg to Pluto in Scorpio which is 2deg from the South Node in Scorpio which is less than a degree from the Moon in Scorpio. (Pluto-SN-Moon has a total range of 2 degrees and 50 minutes)

Thank you, Rad.
God bless,
Katherine


******

Hi Katherine,

Well those symbols, the slice of the women's chart you posted, speak for themselves. You don't need to remove this subject/ topic from our medical thread.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
No no, I wasn't going to/ will not delete anything from here. (I meant in the broader sense. Sorry for the confusion.)
Yes, I thought it could be indicated. That's why I am taking the situation even more seriously. And, I intend to post more about this, because I want to look at her transits.

Thank you.
God bless,
Katherine
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2014, 06:01 AM by Katherine » Logged
Upasika
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Posts: 350


« Reply #172 on: Mar 21, 2014, 03:00 PM »

Hi Katherine,

Well ... I'm certainly motivated - my issue currently is more just not having the time. But I also get your point, that one can approach learning medical EA based on personal intuitive observation as an alternative to factual knowledge, that makes sense too, and I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

blessings
Upasika
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Skywalker
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Posts: 175


« Reply #173 on: Sep 11, 2014, 06:02 AM »

Hi Rad,

I would like to ask what correlates with orgasms. I assume physical orgasm correlates with Mars and an energetic/tantric orgasm with Pluto? Also is it the same for men and women?

Thank you

All the best
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Rad
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Posts: 21294


« Reply #174 on: Sep 11, 2014, 06:14 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

Orgasms correlate with Pluto in general. Then from that baseline you can correlate additionally to 'types' of orgasms. For example, orgasms that take place at night, during sleep, would be Neptune/Pluto. Tantric sex correlates to the principle of evolution which is specific to Pluto yet would also be linked to Neptune because of the root dynamic in this being using sex as a vehicle to unite with the Source. Orgasms that occur strictly for procreational purposes would be a link with Pluto and Venus. And so on.

God Bless, Rad
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