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Author Topic: Evolutionary Stage  (Read 2887 times)
Sajani
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« on: Mar 11, 2009, 09:01 AM »

Determining a person's evolutionary stage can be quite a challenge, what with all the rhetoric of the new agey stuff and all.... so, I'm not quite sure of the stage of a client.  Don't know if b'data's necessary, but it's July 16, 1935; 2:34pm; Akron, OH. Female, white, no specific religious conditioning as a child, now member of Unitarian Universalist church, lower to middle economic conditions. She's read all kinds of "alternative" and new age stuff for years.

Although she talks about how "we're all one," and the only thing that's important is "love," and she does think for herself, and has talked about "leaving her body" while meditating and some other stuff, but those are the main "focus." There's something unsettling about how she speaks. At first I thought she MIGHT be first stage spiritual or 3rd stage individuated, but I also considered those with great caution. She is very caught up in telling and retelling how MUCH she's done for other people over the years, and how she was the "first" to do this or that in teaching, or she's the "ONLY" one that knows how to work with a particular kind of disability, etc. She also talks about how well known and respected her family (especially her dad) was in the area, as well as how well-know SHE is.  As far as the meditation thing, she brings this up often in her counseling sessions, within the story that others she's been in meditation groups with tell her that's what they WANT to be able to do, but can't and she keeps claiming she doesn't WANT to be out of her body and so stifles it. She also mentions - OFTEN - how some astrolgers/readers have told her over the years that she was a great spiritual teacher in prior lives, etc. etc...   (And with S node/sun/pluto all in cancer in the 9th, that's a possibility, although I don't know that the word 'spiritual' necessarily applies).  She also has Mars in Libra in 12 sq Pluto and the nodes, And Jupiter in Scorp, also in 12, trine Saturn in Pisces in the 5th ( Cheesy ) and the Sun in cancer in 9.   

Now, after writing all this and seeing it in print, it becomes even "funnier," and am now thinking that it's more likely that she's first stage individuated.  So, Deva or Rad or both, your thoughts, please?
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 11, 2009, 09:18 AM »

Hi Sajani,
 From what you have described I would suspect Third Stage Individuated because a hallmark of the First Stage Spiritual is a permeating sense of Soul humility. And that would mean DEFLECTING attention from oneself, or claiming the various accomplishments that this person seems to have done. So from what you have described thus far that would be my hunch. Rad
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Sajani
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 11, 2009, 09:49 AM »

Thanks, Rad. Third individuated WAS one of my first suspicions, and I backed away from First stage spiritual for the very reasons you stated. But the attention to herself was also why I backed off from third stage individuated, since one of the hallmarks is that they're not inVESTed in what they know, do, etc. So, how does that dynamic "fit" with 3rd stage individuated? What would/could be the causitive factors? She DOES have Venus, Black moon Lilith, and Neptune in Virgo in the 19th, so could it be to try to pump herself up TO herself?
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Deva
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 12, 2009, 08:01 AM »

Hi, I wanted to offer my input about the evolutionary stage. The third stage individated person is still working through egocentric attachment/ over-identification with whatever capacity the individual has. In other words, the transition into the 1st stage spiritual will correlate with an essential humility within the Soul because the individual is re-connecting/re-uniting with the Source of all things (the Soul's sense of identity reflects this evolution). This is what Rad was talking about when he says the Soul will deflect attention from itself. The virgo/9th house planets indiciates the need to learn this natural humility, and that this individual does have natural teaching abilities. Hope this helps.
Deva
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inyo
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 12, 2009, 09:53 AM »

I've always had a difficult time with this especially regarding myself. I hear others talking about themselves being in say a 1st stage spiritual, talking alot about this spiritual idea and that, and I think to myself that I have a greater sense of spirit than they do because I have been through a literal spiritual crisis, a deep existential crisis. It comes and goes and is sometimes very strong. I am often met with these cookie cutter textbook spiritual responses regarding being positive or whatever as if my struggle to understand 'why' is somehow a negative thing. That my angst at the absurdity of some things is 'not spiritual'. I dont know if I buy that. Now having said that, and trying literally to see god in all things, to hear him in the silence, to listen to the silence as I go through life, I still question if I am even in the spiritual stage because I go through cycles where things are clear and then they are not. When they are not I feel dimly evolved. Sometimes I feel like I have been on Earth forever and I get so bored of being here, like why am I here AGAIN. I try really hard to understand and sometimes I understand very clearly. Then I get annoyed briefly and sigh and roll my eyes and keep plugging.
I'm not asking for a determination of my stage, I'm just voicing that it's kind of confusing to really determine. And I dont know if alot of the people studying astrology that believe they are in spiritual state, actually are.
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Rad
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 12, 2009, 11:03 AM »

Hi Inyo,
 Thanks for your post. To me you are the essence of the First Stage spiritual. These natural cycles that you go through of clarity and then angst and confusion, nothing makes sense, the inner sense too of timelessness, why am I still here, the core alienation from the consensus of reality that most life, the ongoing and necessary questioning about what it all means, the very nature of life, the cyclic sense of feeling no connection to anything except existential angst, even the sense of NO GOD at times, the questioning of one's capacity, what am I here to do, and yet knowing All is so much bigger and vast than the tiny and puny ego of each individual, the desire of wanting to do a work on behalf of the whole, to connect to God in this way, these are all the dynamics of the First Stage spiritual. And a deep and abiding personal humility that naturally deflects attention from the personal ego.
 And of course being subjected to all the 'spiritual should be's' .. all the negative judgments that can come because of not adhering to these artificial dogmas that have no relationship to natural laws, the natural laws of the natural God/ess. Those occur of course because of the nature of the patriarchy and the assumption/ projection of a 'perfect' God/ess.
 To me the Natural God/ess simply wants us to be honest about who we are in any given life in total and to do the best we can with what we have to work with. To live as impeccably as we can, and to give to others as best we can when so directed.
 And I certainly agree with you about how many people claim to be living a 'spiritual' life versus those who actually are.
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birdwhistler
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 12, 2009, 06:56 PM »

Hi Inyo and Rad,

I'd just like to say that I sympathize with Inyo's feelings. I think your angst would be more with the patriarchy and the New Age platitudes, and that can certainly make you feel alienated even though you're trying to be a part of spiritual life. Personally, I've been doing work with EA for over 20 years; and, in my experience and observation (with all due respect to Rad), First Stage Universal Souls do not have the discrimination that you are reflecting here with your words. Again, in my experience and observation, the flip-flop between knowing and not knowing doesn't really stop until you reach the final stages of the Universal State of Evolution.
Peace.
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inyo
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 12, 2009, 10:03 PM »

Thanks for the responses. Thankfully I'm not too attached to the label of which state I am in. I know what my weaknesses are and what my strengths are and I know where I need to improve. I know it takes a long time, lifetimes.

Bird what did you mean when you said, " First Stage Universal Souls do not have the discrimination that you are reflecting here with your words." what does the 'discrimination' imply to you?

I love love love that you made this EA board public. Thanks so much. I am looking forward to some good times here.
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birdwhistler
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 13, 2009, 11:03 AM »

Hi Inyo,

 In the 1st stage Universal, the Soul is learning essential humility. The lesson of essential humility is necessary in order to purify the ego for the eventual conscious merging with its Soul and, by extension, the Source of all things. Besides learning humility the Soul is seeking a true spiritual teacher. These dynamics in combination result in what we can call "spiritual gullibility". Having just evolved thru the individuated, the Soul would be attracted to teachings that deviate from mainstream religion, making them susceptible to false teachers or spiritual con-men (2nd stage Universal). For one to show any discernment or discrimination between true and false statements or teachings is more evolved than 1st stage Universal. The Soul must experience, at some level, the pain of humiliation and disillusionment of following false teachers to learn this discernment. This is especially pertinent at this point in the evolutionary epic,i.e. the patriarchy or dominator mentality.

 Peace
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Lia
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 13, 2009, 05:04 PM »

Hi there,

Quote
The Soul must experience, at some level, the pain of humiliation and disillusionment of following false teachers to learn this discernment. This is especially pertinent at this point in the evolutionary epic,i.e. the patriarchy or dominator mentality.

While I agree in general that the 1st stage spiritual can buy into illusions time to time and will necessarily experience some disillusionments in order to proceed with its evolution to get closer to the "whole truth" -- I do not agree to this:
Quote
For one to show any discernment or discrimination between true and false statements or teachings is more evolved than 1st stage Universal

(I believe you mean 1st stage spiritual, yes? Just to make terms clear and understandable for everyone.)

Well, what you imply here is actually happening from the 1st stage individuated continuously. Simply because the soul starts to learn to think for itself from that stage onward...
It can indeed discriminate between true and false statements or teachings from this time onward...relative to it's own understanding, awareness and individual soul structure - but within that framework, it sure can.
 
1st stage spiritual needs quiet a good spiritual framework to buy into something....of course that still can be and time to time will be an illusion in essence, but that's not becasue the 1st stage spiritual can not discern or discriminate at all (consensus state is when a soul can't) it is because the nature of illusion (neptune) is always based on the APPEARENCE of reality...in other words something that appears real, is actually an illusion at the end. The illusions that the 1st stage spiritual tend to buy into always resonates with some inner IDEALS that the 1st stage spiritual soul has. That's the key....so because of those ideals and the resulting wish that it would be true may lead the soul believe/follow something that is actually NOT what it appeared/presented/stated it was/is....

Part of this comes from the inner humility which translates to self doubt; so the 1st spiritual tend to question itself and easily considers others (who present themselves "spiritually") as more  knowledgeable than itself....this too adds to the tendency to fall pray to false teachers...

But point being: those who doesn't have the inner cycles of doubt/belief/clarity/confusion but follow something without discrimination are consensus even if it is an alternative religion.....while there are those who have followed or follow a mainstream religion and yet inwardly experience the above cycles with great inner intensity, are likely in the 1st spiritual...

These details depend on the individual circumstances of each soul within each given life....


Any soul's actual reality is defined from within, and not by the outer circumstances. I.e. just because somebody maybe following a mainstream religion doesn't necessarily mean they are in the consensus state, same way just because somebody is part of a new age or whatever spiritual movement doesn't necessarily mean they are 1st spiritual. A closer look at the individual actual reality is what counts...

The other thing I like to mention is the fact that each major consciousness state and their three substates have a spectrum wherein, in other words there is room for continuous evolution within any evolutionary stage....
None of the stages are one or two life times. Far far more than that!

So for example, within the 1st spiritual there is an INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF DISCRIMINATION intended to be learned for each soul on their own uniqe way....now let say 10 life times after a soul entered the 1st spiritual, would they display the same spiritual gulibility than 10 life times before? There will be no evolution if that would be true...and yet, the soul is still in the 1st spiritual.....

By the way, every evolutionary substage also has three distinct inner stages within that substage...I.e. within the 1st spiritual there is three inner stages ....those who just entered the 1st spiritual, those who have been in it for a long while and learned tremendous amount of knowledge, including discriminaton and yet still on the way, and there are those who  culminating this stage before entering the next one the 2nd spiritual...


Hope this clarifies it?

blessings,

Lia
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birdwhistler
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 13, 2009, 07:47 PM »


Hi Lia,

I understand that you personally disagree with what I wrote, but please try to be more cordial in your disagreements in the future.

I am inclined not to participate in a tit-for-tat argument with you... yet, to paraphrase Wolf " Religion is for the Consensus state, not for the Universal state of evolution."

 Peace, sister.
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Lia
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 14, 2009, 04:41 AM »



Hello Birdwhistler,

Appears to me you probably misunderstood what I was trying to say.
Of course everything I said is according to Wolf's teaching.
Of course you are right, in general religion is for the consensus. But one size doesn't fit all- individual consideration is vital.

The phenomena I was regarding to is like John of God for example (whom being in the 3rd spiritual and in a very advanced state even within that have been confirmed by Wolf). Yet John of God has been and still is following a mainstream religion in Brazil.

My post was never meant to be an argument with you personally: simply I was trying to clarify the 1st stage spiritual for it is a confusing stage indeed. Many who are within this state greatly confused about it. I can relate to that confusion; have been there for a long time myself Grin......therefore my intention was and is to provide some clarity on the subject, - of course within the limitation of my own ability:-)

If within that I expressed anything that at your end could be interpreted as argumentative personally with you, sorry for that, please know this was not my intention...
For this has nothing to do with you in person, it has to do with the people who will read these posts now and in the future seeking answers for this confusing subject. My post was intended to serve them; and not at all to argue with you - or anyone...

I send you love and blessings - in the hope that my intention will be clearer this time and please accept my apology if it wasn‘t at the first place.

Lia 
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inyo
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 14, 2009, 09:22 AM »

Thanks bird and Lia. You both are helping to clarify. I was not aware that there were so many stages and substages of each level. I guess I should have. That explains why it is so confusing and nuanced.

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Rad
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 14, 2009, 11:26 AM »

Discrimination does indeed occur in the Spiritual Stage starting within the First Stage. It is indeed an evolutionary imperative to do so through out the totality of the Spiritual Stage. As Wolf taught the Spiritual Stage as a whole correlates the the sign Pisces. The natural polarity of Pisces of course is Virgo: discrimination.
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birdwhistler
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 14, 2009, 11:45 AM »


 Hi Lia,

Thank you for your cordial response.... My point was simple, confusion is not discrimination or clarity. The level of discrimination can be measured by the individual's word usage. The Soul cyclically(or psychically) "flip-flops" between clarity and confusion until it reaches 3rd stage Universal, and sometimes still then, as in the examples of Mahasaya and Yukteswar, blocked from "seeing" until the appropriate time. Relative to Inyo, the challenge is not to allow oneself to sucked into that existential void during the cycle of confusion. Before you "know", you have to not "know".

 Peace again
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