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Steve
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 17, 2009, 10:26 AM »

Hi all

I make no claim to be any kind of expert on the subject of evil.

I want to add to this discussion that I agree 100% with what Lesley just wrote.  From my limited experiences, she has hit the nail on the head.  That is exactly how it works.

And the value of Lesleys description of that individual is it puts a living breathing face of a not-famous example on all that has been written on the subject.  The concepts as they have been laid out remain somewhat theoretical until one is presented, in the flesh, with living examples of those principles.  Then one begins to see how these principles/concepts manifest in actual people.  Their actions DO make the skin crawl on anyone whose life is spent reaching for the light.

And as it has been explained to me, the more one reaches the light, the more they naturally attract this opposite polarity, forever.  It's just the way life in this dualistic reality works.  The issue is learning how to deal with such energies and not let them get a toehold anywhere around you.

As I've come to look at it, although when these things occur they can be experienced as very personal, in reality its all impersonal.  Evil, so to speak, is just doing the job it has in the scheme of things - its supposed to be doing what its doing.  But we here are given choice - we don't have to give in to its influence over us.   I have seen that evil/dark will seep in through every crack in the wall or under the front door that it can find.  These cracks in us are the places where we are not being totally honest with ourselves in any way (our shadow).  That is one reason the opposing force is called LIGHT - we have to shine a bright LIGHT on all the dark unconscious places within our Souls - to become ever more real and honest about our own remaining less than totally wonderful tendencies.

The way evil manifests in human consciousness is through behaviors of elitism, superiority, domination, selfishness, greed, indifference to the needs and pain of others, separation of self and the social groups one is in from all else - exclusivism - we are better than you are, rationalization and justification, self-interest ahead of the good of the group and the common whole. As Adina has stated many times, Evil will often present itself as being God's intention, like the recent announcement from the chairman of Goldman Sachs of just that, that they are doing God's work.  In a way that is true, because evil is also part of God.  But the question is, which polarity of God's work do you want to be on?

In our time such behavior patterns are described as sociopathic, and that is how evil is manifesting, through such people.  And that is WHY they are sociopathic - their inability to empathize comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is the subject of this discussion.

This is one of the reasons we have acted so strongly on this message board when people with an attitude appear.  My tendency for most people is to give them the benefit of the doubt, sometimes for too long.  But I am beginning to sense when someone appears who has that basic attitude.  They generally present themselves like the wolf in sheep's clothing at first.  But it doesn't take long before their underlying agenda appears, and its sometimes shocking at first to see the switch.

I'm not saying all of those who have appeared here are evil or have a contract.  Its not necessary to have a contract to become the unconscious agent of dark forces.  All one has to do is become dishonest with self about one's actual nature, and in that space of self-deceit the dark finds an opening to manifest.  Because the person is not self-honest about what they are doing, they remain in denial of their actual behavior, intentions, motivations, and agenda, and can even believe they are carrying out the intentions of the light.  This is why we have at times acted in ways that may seem harsh, on people who have appeared here.  Because we will not let such energies get even a toehold here, as they are the exact opposite of everything EA is about.

If you think about it, these sociopathic attitudes are the dominant reality of our time.  That, in a nutshell, demonstrates the hold these dark forces have over so much of what goes on today.  Why is it that wall street banks continually get bailed out, get away with giving tens of billions of dollars in new bonuses, while thousands of families a week are foreclosed from their homes, put out on the street, and 600,000 additional people a month lose their jobs, when it was the situations the wall street banks created in the first place re the "revolution" in house financing that laid the groundwork for the foreclosures and job losses in the first place?  And no matter what anyone says, writes, does, the banks continue getting rewarded while so many others suffer.  

This is the exact same principle that Lesley described as the charmed life of her evil relative, getting away with it over and over, fooling everyone, because they don't want to deal with it, applied at a societal level.  It manifests in exactly the same ways societally as it does individually.  These corporations - banks, pharmaceutical, wall street, insurance, oil -  just seem to keep getting away with it, again and again.  They buy off all opposition they can purchase, and destroy any they can't.

Wolf was adamant on many occasions that this contract was unbreakable.  Based on everything else he said, I don't think he would have been as adamant about that unless he had personally experienced the reality of that.  I think few of the rest of us, including me, have any real basis to KNOW whether this is literally true as he described it.  So any discussion of its truth vs not truth really is based only on belief, conjecture, and hopes, that is, opinion - not actual experience.  Thus that discussion can go on forever as there is no actual basis for a definitive answer from anyone who has not experienced a definitive answer.

What is NOT refutable is the EFFECTS of this evil, as described above.  So in reality whether it goes on for all eternity or not is kind of a moot point.  It clearly has its toehold now and is affecting everything in all human life and behavior.  I don't think too many people will argue against that.

In terms of moving this discussion forward, if any are interested, I think it would be quite valuable to discuss, given the reality of the present situation, what individuals who have no interest in feeding the darkness at all can DO, daily, to keep these influences at bay, and utilize the light-bearer side of Lucifer to help our own evolution, and through that, make a valuable contribution to the overall collective.
« Last Edit: Nov 17, 2009, 02:25 PM by Steve » Logged

ari moshe
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 17, 2009, 11:17 AM »

Adina, thank you for such a clear response- you are right, i cannot judge just by having read the transcript the emotional state of JWG.

Right on Pam  Cool

Steve, I would love to learn more about how to keep the evil at bay and utilize the light side of lucifer. Personally, i recognize that is one hell of a journey, and it doesnt end.
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dughlas
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 17, 2009, 01:14 PM »

I have question in response to Steve's remark that sociopathy is becoming more prevalent in the world and the question is not just for Steve.

Would this concept correlate with the last 3 generations (all that I have personal firsthand observations from) consistently saying that "people just don't seem to care about each other as much as when I was younger"?

I've always just chalked that thought up to  a change in perception as we age, but now I think...not so much.
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Steve
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 17, 2009, 02:20 PM »

In the 60's a significant portion of the young were in rebellion against the existing orientations.  They were, in their varied ways, seeking to establish a new way, based more on inclusion, caring, sharing.  In EA we refer to that orientation as natural law or matriarchy.

Ever since, those representing the polarity orientation have been seeking to wipe out anything that was gained during this time.  This picked up speed with the election of Reagan, with the slogan of the 80's being "greed is good", after the (admittedly naive) idealism of the 60's.  This was turned into a political movement and bankrolled to hundreds of millions of dollars by elitist authoritarian right wing "entrepreneurs", to advance their own interests at the expense of everyone else.

Even the younger people here have lived through enough of the history since then to be aware of how the seeds planted by this movement have taken hold and born fruit for those who planted them.  Everything has been turned on its head.

Being kind and generous and seeking to lookout for the needs of the collective has been reframed as weak, idealistic, namby-pamby, and "liberal" has been turned into nearly a 4 letter word.   All of the values that defined much of a generation have been reframed as "outside the mainstream". 

Meanwhile Republican family-value Jeezus freaks caught in all sorts of bizarre sexual situations completely outside their publicly stated values are let off the hook time and time again, free to remain in office, and no doubt, repeat their hypocritical deeds.

All of this is from an elite who have decided they are above the law and above the rules intended for everyone else.  Read about The Family as written by author Jeff Sharlet, how they teach that Jesus had two sets of teachings, the one about being meek and taking care of the weak was the outer teaching for the sheep.  The inner teaching was for the select few who God had chosen to run the world - they were not to pay attention to all that namby pamby crap.  If they have an affair, or have sex with a 15 year old, or "slip" in any way, they are forgiven because they are chosen.  At least a dozen of our hardline Republican senators, the real jerks, are involved with this group.

This did not previously exist, nowhere near the degree to which it does now.  It is pervasive, and growing.

40 years ago the media felt a responsibility to inform and educate its viewers, knowing that a true democracy requires an informed population.  As the large corporations took over the smaller media companies, this gradually went out the window.  They now view their media companies as basically corporate PR departments.  The bottom line in a corporation is make money, any way possible, even if that is at the expense of millions of others. (If you think about it, 1) you will agree that is true, and 2) you will agree that if it was a human doing this, we would call it sociopathic.   thus the basis of our economic system is sociopathic to the core.  What kind of culture will a society based on sociopathy create, inevitably, over time?   One answer is an unsustainable one)

Meanwhile they feel entitled and superior as they are doing it.  This did not previously exist, not to this extent.  Previously society would not tolerate it past a certain point.   That has all changed as society has been brainwashed with what is real and normal by the very interests manipulating everything for their own self-interest.

These things are the definition of evil, and no, they did not previously exist to the degree they do now.  It is more than getting older and being less naive. 

Ari, I don't necessarily have a lot of answers on how to combat the influences of evil in one's life.  It is NOT easy, as you said.  I was suggesting we have a discussion about that rather than anyone telling anyone else how to do it.  What I am gradually learning in my own life is one has to stand up to it when it rears its head.  This is not always easy, and there is little external incentive to do so.  Things are constructed so you get your outer reward from ignoring it, and run risks facing it.  Thus it requires courage, and a knowing you must do it because its the right thing to do. 

Those words are easy to say.  They are a lot harder to act on when those influences are in your face.

I have a saying, "Evil eats its own".  Evil, the impersonal force, could care less even about those who carry out its work.  When they are no longer useful, they are abandoned or destroyed. That is the nature of evil - it is a destructive force, not a life-affirming force.  That's why we must in the end affirm the light - its the only thing that goes on and on, in constructive ways, forever.  Everything else can and will end.
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Jeff L
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Neti, neti


« Reply #34 on: Nov 17, 2009, 03:23 PM »

I always liked the quote from Bucky Fuller "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." This certainly embodies the spirit of the coming aquarian age and there are already signs of it emerging here and now.

The most helpful thing for me to remember when evil begins to feel overwhelming is to remember the nature of the ages / yugas. Yukteswar's book The Holy Science is an excellent source on the subject. We are now in an ascending arc where the light of consciousness is increasing among the totality on the planet. Still, we are in this age which needs a lot of healing and I am deeply appreciating the effort in this thread to cultivate strategies to help us heal and move out of the darkness. Remember also what Wolf talked about regarding 51% / 49%...
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"The feminine grows spiritually by learning to live as love rather than hoping for it. The masculine grows spiritually by learning to live as freedom rather than  struggling for it." -David Deida
adina
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« Reply #35 on: Nov 17, 2009, 11:27 PM »

I've had a long busy day and just got to catch up with the discussion. Since it's now so late, and I'm very tired, I'll add a few comments and maybe try to add more tomorrow. Like Steve, I sure don't claim to be any expert on the topic, but I've sure had more exPERience with it than I ever wanted!   Shocked 

Inyo, Lesley, Steve, Ari, Dughlas, and Jeff, thank you all for your questions and input. There's a LOT of good, practical information in these posts, information that will, indeed, help people turn evil on its head. Lesley, thank you so much for both the extended explanation of how evil manifests and how to recognize it as well as that 'living' example. It helps to put even a metaphorical "face" to the name of evil and how it behaves. And thank you, Steve, for your extended explanation of how evil acts, especially its collective influence. I wholeheartedly agree that perhaps the key concept for our times is: "Evil, thy name is sociopathy."

I think another really important thing to keep in mind when identifying and dealing with evil is that the cases where it's so very obvious, like the example Lesley gave, or the sociopathic behaviors Steve enumerated, is that most of the time Lucifer/evil remains hidden as it works through our own "weaknesses" - emotions and behaviors intrinsic to our individual souls - and again when we set out to make deep changes, to know God, to evolve. For example, if we a masochistic pathology in which we always put our own wants and needs last, when we begin to earnestly spiritualize our life, we can find ourself making all kinds of excuses why we can't meditate, or practice our yoga, or whatever our practice is. This dynamic is already a part of us, so we don't recognize the INTENSIFIED excuse making as evil. It's this insidiousness that makes it so very difficult to identify in the first place.

As far as keeping evil at bay, what I've found is that it requires constant surveillance. One thing that Jesus said, many, many, many times, in his own effort to repel evil was say, "Get thee behind me, Satan." Wolf often reminded us of Jesus' words. This fits in with what Steve referred to that Wolf taught about how evil becomes more prevalent, more persistent as one gets closer and closer to realizing god/Self, closer to liberation. So we must ever remain "on alert" so to speak, because one of evil's favorite tactics IS to hide behind God. Another thing you can do tohelps provide protection is to weat a religious symbol of meaning to you; e.g., a cross, a Star of David, the OM symbol, etc. Another thing you can do is to simply keep the following words kind of running quietly and inwardly in your consciousness: I just want to know God; I just want to know God.

Back in 2000, Wolf did a full-day workshop on Lucifer in Phoenix, and he took Lucifer thru the signs, telling how it manifests in each one. In short and simple terms, the antidote for Lucifer's placement in each sign/house, the way to keep evil at bay and to realize it as the Bearer of Light lies in the polarity point of its placement in the birth chart by house and sign. So, if I have Lucifer in Scorpio in the sixth house, for example, the way to deal with evil, to embrace Lucifer as the Bearer of Light, is thru the polarity point of Taurus and the 12th house.

Inyo, Well, in return, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were asking. Wow, such a young one, eh?!

I'm not sure what you mean by "parasites," Inyo. Are you referring to some kind of spirit attachment, or maybe an INfluence of evil rather than a contract? I remember Jeffrey talking about the intensity of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, using the terminology, “with eyes like LASER beams.” I’ve known some of that generation with eyes like that.

Also, can you give a little more background on this soul, includinging what you think his evolutionary stage is, his race/ethnicity, his social class, and his religious conditioning. The last one (in my book), along with the evolutionary stage, would be especially important considering the stellium in the 12th house, including Pluto and the N Node, along with Saturn in Pisces in the 3rd, which squares the Lucifer.

I’m really picking up on some heavy involvement (past, present, or both) with black magic (Scorp Stellium in 12, with Leo Moon in 8th square Scorp Sun, trine Pluto,  and conj mars in Leo in 9 (the lower octave of Pluto,), which squares the Sun/Venus/Juno/JupiterAND the nodal axis, indicating a skipped step. The moon also inconjuncts the Saturn in Pisces. Does that fit his M.O. as you've observed it?


I hope this helps for now and gives people a place to start. As I said earlier, TR Lucifer is currently at 28 Gemini Retrograde. It will go direct at 15 Gemini on Feb. 4, 2010, and will enter Cancer on April 28, 2010.
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2009, 07:30 AM by adina » Logged
inyo
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 18, 2009, 05:04 PM »

Adina I appreciate your time and thoughts on this. I was refering to a spirit attachment and how that differentiates from a contract and how one can tell the diff.

This soul was/is my stepson, my x-wifes son, my sons half brother. I'm not looking for a reading because I received some insights on his past lives from JWG years ago but we never got into evil and contracts and parasites and the difference at the time. It wasnt in fact a long conversation, more of him telling me how some of his stuff got there and where some of it came from.

So it has been some years since he was in our lives on a daily basis and we as a family didnt survive as a unit and there was quite a bit of emotional aftermath and years of emotional repair that we all have gone through and let play out. So because of that I dont want to lay out all the details for you because A. it's more like a major motion picture and b. there are just alot of emotions that I dont want to pull up right now. I do appreciate the offer and maybe I originally thought thats what I wanted and perhaps it would be helpful to some people but after a day of letting it sit and looking at it now, I just dont want to rehash it all again because I am in a good space and I dont want to let him in so to speak.

So if you do know anything about spirit attachments, parasites and all that would be good to hear. I guess my thinking is that if  soul has made a contract then that soul in any future life is particularly more open to dark influences and parasites/soul attachments as opposed to someone who hasnt made a contract. So can we have soul attachments on souls that have not made a contract? The answer is probably yes now that I see it written out.

Part of me is curious to know weather this soul did make a contract and part of me is just content knowing what I have experienced with him for years of our lives. I know enough to know that there is some heavy heavy , I mean like a lead ball, stuff inside this guy... anyone here would be able to feel it, I mean its so pronounced that it would almost take a blind person not to see/feel it. Part of me dosent care where it came from because I dont know what it would matter or change because he is not in our lives on a regular basis, not even in the same state anymore and I no longer have any influence on any decisions that are made in his life now.

Anyway Ive lost my train of thought, Neptune in the 3rd.....

hope this was semi-clear.




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mountainheather
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« Reply #37 on: Nov 19, 2009, 02:01 PM »

I'd like to respond to Steve's call for a discussion on what we do daily to contribute to the Light and losen the hold of Darkness. I like things like "Satan get thee behind me" although I wouldn't say it in those words. I choose things like "the value is in the effort" when I feel hopeless in making any difference at all (one of my weaknesses, and openings for darkness) I also call out in my thoughts things like "grandmothers find me, guide me" or "God'dess find me here", when I feel vulnerable. It's like casting out a line or striking a chord that resonates with a Higher state of mind within me, and an opening for God'dess to guide me immediately, and it works! 
I don't know if I've ever met someone with a contract with evil but I certainly have sucuumbed to the influence of evil in my life when I was vulnerable and seen it in others close to me and am dedicated to being a bearer of light for myself, and hopefully others.  Being vulnerable to evil is a very scary place if you have no tools, so thanks for asking about what we can do, I look forward to hearing from others! Sincerely, Heather
 
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adina
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 19, 2009, 02:50 PM »

Inyo, I have little experience with spirit attachments, but I do know that, Yes, one CAN have a spirit attachment without having made a contract. It's a very different thing. One of the other members of the EA Council, Patricia Walsh, is well-versed in dealing with them and is, in my book, a good resource to turn to for your question. I know she has a very busy schedule at the moment, but perhaps it won't be long until we can get some clarity from her.  I learned just a little bit about the issue when I took a Deep Memory Process training class with her, but not enough to answer your question. I know Pam Strugar, another EA and a frequent poster also took DMP when I did, so maybe she can weigh in on this as well. Sorry I can't be of more help with the spirit attachments. As far as knowing for sure whether your stepson made a contract, you are probably in the best position to determine that possibility since you've interfaced with him personally. Even at that, the signs that one HAS made a contract that Lesley reminded us of, sometimes are very evident and sometimes are not. IMHO, it takes a person who is very highly evolved (like Wolf) to be able to identify a person who's made a contract, unless, LIKE Lesley, they've seen or experienced some of the very overt signs.

Even though your stepson is no longer in close physical proximity to you, if he HAS made a contract, HE could still influence - affect - YOU. So I'd still suggest you be very careful.  Smiley

Heather, thanks for sharing some different (and yet very similar) ways that you "contribute to the Light and losen the hold of Darkness." I think much of how we do this is based on our own core belief system, so I appreciate hearing different ways of doing this. I myself lean more toward that inner message about knowing God that I mentioned in the above post, as well as simply calling on my guru, or picturing him in my third eye. OR, in very simple and direct terms to just FIRMLY tell evil to get away; there's no way it's going to get me because I belong to God'dess.

Also, thank you for sharing the fact that you have succumbed to the influence. I think any of us, if we're honest with ourselves, have in some ways at some time, done the same. The influence is just so much more insidious than we realize, and succumbing to it doesn't necessarily "look" at all like we would think. For the most part, I think we picture evil acting out in very overt and horrific ways, while in reality it can manifest in a simple argument, or putting something that we know we need to do for ourselves off, or....well, the list is endless. So thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this extremely important topic.

God bless.



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Lucius
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« Reply #39 on: Nov 20, 2009, 12:42 AM »

An issue I have had over & over is with 'good' people & especially, most especially, is with 'spiritual' and 'new age' folks.  They can not accept evil for what it is..which of course I see as a manifestation of evil - the denial of it.  If you can't even accept it's existance - oh, boy will it have some fun with you!  Second, to deny the actual reality we live in is to deny our evolution & that it is happening...actually, philosophically to deny the reality of the existence of a force called 'evil' is to deny so many aspects of what we actual experience & why.  I have little tolerance for the new age BS with regard to it.

I was recently thinking..a few months ago..have gotten past it...thinking - 'would it be evil to wish to be some genius who would create a way to eliminate almost all humans but somehow retain all other living beings?'   I'm not kidding - I was wishing to be reborn as some evil genius.  But, I'd think...would that really be evil?  I have to admit, given my dark sense of humor, I did have a laugh at my aspirations..but, truly...if I could, would it be evil? (i figured guessing ends & means probably equates to big trouble & purposefully creating pain no matter the means would not be good...but, then you think of instances where folks who are aligned with evil do die or Joan of Arc who was a warrioress & planned wars that killed folks apparently on the behalf of 'god') & if I could would I?  I think not...simply because you realize you didn't create yourself, you didn't create reality & you cannot possibly know, on any ego-basis where it is all going....so, really, very few humans would be good for the planet, - but when you are in a situation where you are justifying means to and end I think you're in some deep doo-doo!  I'm past it, so I can laugh more..but, there were some dark times..I think it is steve who talks about the sociopathic nature of our society that sums up how I'd been feeling.  Very dark, very depressed, and at a loss.  Realizing the Great Spirit cannot be destroyed helped me - I got out of my own ego perspective and gave up! 

I'm just sharing my own little 'evil' battle.  I think, especially with the political nature of some aspects lately, I didn't have a firm grasp or perspective & became overwhelmed.  I hope not to be judged by what I've posted & not to be taken too seriously!  I just got sick of humans being evil, essentially - babies with STDs, animals skinned alived, the political rhetoric...however, that reminds me of a key issue - evil thrives on those feelings:  dejection, hopelessness, despair, anger & feeling like a victim, etc.  If you feel that way chances are you are focused in your ego and then those feelings are clues to your evolution which is how evil can work as 'lucifer' - the bearer of light.


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mountainheather
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« Reply #40 on: Nov 20, 2009, 04:35 PM »

Thank you Adina for your posts.  This topic is really on my mind and it is causing me to doubt my actions in a good way. I am recalling a story about the guy who brought buddhism to tibet, (Padmasambhava??)and how he tells a story of a guy who meditated in a cave for 20 years and faced all of his demons there, when he was asked what he did to resist them ,he said he told them if they wanted to sit and meditate with him, thats fine, otherwise, he'd pay no attention to them...I really like the idea of being focussed on the good,  while not denying the evil, just not giving it any attention.
After reading the Lucifer talk that you posted yesterday, I imagine there are times as in Jeffrey's case when souls are directly confronted and threatened with evil i.e. exorcisms , in which case harder to not give them attention.  But my experience in dealing with my habits, tendancies to be complacent, and compulsions, is there less overt or immediate threat here, the threat is that over time I make myself vulnerable to poor decisions or the influence of evil based on these weaknesses or seperating desires unchecked...so indeed my experience tells me evil is invisible because it counts me being complacent, or self deceptive or overwhelmed, then my simple seperating thoughts and behaviours can gain momentum without me noticing and I can "unknowingly" contribute to evil, not by actually causing it, but by allowing it.  That's what I notice about me. I have Lucifer in gemini conjunct my NN also conj Jupiter ruler of SN in 7th... squaring 5 planets including pluto so I've got my work cut out for me..holy moly I realised I think its Shocked time for a reading...

I find listening to devotional music of any kind and reading spiritually inspirational poetry or writing helps reorient me, also talking to people like you all about it and naming without blaming helps too. I am very greatful to you all, and Lucius, I appreciate your honesty too. Heather 
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Steve
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« Reply #41 on: Nov 21, 2009, 08:46 AM »

Lucius -

In a way you were being too hard on yourself.  Reading your post, what I got you are REALLY saying is your awareness of the ACTUAL nature of life, what in EA is called Natural Law.  And your awareness of that, and your honoring of that because it IS what is, what is real - it is the nature of the actual God.  And you having that awareness, and watching millions, billions, of humans, alone among all species on this planet, denying this, spitting on it, mocking it, daily.  Believing all sorts of made up, twisted, distorted beliefs that let them rationalize and justify their life-denying, self-glorifying existences, on a moment to moment basis.

And it was the part of you disgusted with all of this, feeling that perhaps the planet would be better off without stupid humans mucking everything up.  That these thoughts were based on an honoring of what is, not some evil intent that wants to do great damage.  Rather that humans ALREADY do great damage, your desire being to tip the planet back TOWARDS natural law, to what is real.  So how can those thoughts be evil bad or wrong?

The only problem with them is they, in a sense, interfere with the free will decisions that Creator has granted to all humans.  The gist of it is, if humanity does not change its thinking, beliefs, and course of actions, what you described is EXACTLY what is going to happen, but of natural consequences, not requiring some evil genius to do this work. 

Because we do live in a reality with natural laws, there are limits to the degree to which any individual or species can violate those natural laws.  Because there are natural consequences for doing so, and OVER TIME those violations will create, are creating, massive changes in the experience of being human on earth.  An old saying is "you made your bed and now you can lie in it".  This is beginning to occur.  As side effect, these changes brought on by human behavior interfere in the life processes of all other species, also.  And that is what I heard you most upset about, that instead of using are capacity to be self aware to be guardians of all the life forms we find on the planet, we actually callously obliviously interfere with their own right for evolutionary choices with our own selfish reasons and decisions.

In the last year I was introduced to something Yogananda once said.  I don't remember the exact quote, but it was along the lines of civilizations (or was it planets, or galaxies?) are destroyed when they go completely over to God, or completely over to evil.  Think of the implications in that.  It means that planets have existed elsewhere that have gone completely in one or the other direction, this is a part of divine plan, natural law. That means, in any given life system, the possibility of evil totally, completely dominating such a system is not only possible, it has occurred.  And no doubt, many many times.  Just as civilizations that have gone all the way to God has no doubt occurred many many times.  What is the determinant?  CHOICE, by the species on that planet.   As I have learned in the last year, 99.5% of all species that have ever existed on earth are now extinct.  Where are the dinosaurs, who "ruled" the earth for millions of years, today?    Do you see where I am going with this?

Don't be too hard on yourself in judging yourself for what you were feeling.  It is a deep hard difficult journey for almost all of us to start waking up to the actual nature of the reality we live in, the actual nature of that which created us.  It is so different from all the fairy tales we have all been spoon fed since the day we were born.  I have sometimes said "who wants this kind of God?", but reality is we only get one kind of God, whether I like that or not.  It is what is.  And looking more deeply, the only reason I would find issue with the reality of the God we get, we express, we are, is from my own deep conditioning of how things are supposed to be that are so different than the way reality, God reality, actually is.  It is what it is, and that is all that it is, no more, and no less, regardless of my opinions about it.  Surrendering into that seems to be the one way out of this maze.  It is what it is, and it is only my own ignorance of what is that makes me feel it should be otherwise. 

We who gather here, for the most part, wish to manifest the good, loving, kind, positive side of the polarities.  It is our own Souls who resonate with this - that is the impulse we seek to carry out.  And we just have to do it, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much ignorance and even opposition we have to face in the process.  That is our job, period.  The more one moves forward the more one sees the degree of the opposite polarity.  In the end the positive is stronger than evil.  But at times, and temporarily, it can be a close call, and its possible, in the short term (in the cosmic sense of time), for evil to even be winning for a while.  Its at those times that those aligned with the light are needed more than ever.  And I would say, for many of us, that is why our Souls chose to be here at this time - for our own individual evolution, and to make a contribution to the collective as we walk this path from ignorance to awakeness.

It grows clearer to me that one of the best ways to remain aligned with what we know in a world of great darkness is to band together in small groups with those of like mind, exactly what we are doing here.  That is an Aquarian principle.  Think about it - the internet is Aquarian/Uranian, we are gathering using that medium, people physically spread out all over the planet, sharing like mind (an Aquarian principle), gaining strength and validation from the interactions. 

Jeffrey called Uranus, the ruler of Aquarius, "deconditioning" - the gradual elimination of false beliefs to reveal the truth that lies beneath them.  And that is the essence of what this thread is about.  It takes great courage to walk this path, and it can ask most anything of us, to give up things we may not want to give up.  As I am finding, in return for this, you get your Self back.  It's a pretty good deal, actually.

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Lucius
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« Reply #42 on: Dec 10, 2009, 07:10 PM »

Thanks Steve for your thoughtful, thought provoking reply.  I admit I haven't been here since I posted - frequently feel pretty stupid after I post - but, I think a part of me felt that I might be judged, and that expectation is because I do judge myself harshly and didn't come back until I felt emotionally ready.  Although I do deserve it - proper discrimination, not to sound like a masochist - but, I've a long ways to go and I figure I was born a Virgo to meet it head on!  I feel I don't express myself well either - but, you seem to hear me!  That's nice.

I was going through a tough time - and I was purposefully reading Black Elk and other Native stories, medicine people but mainly it was Black Elk - I would cry & cry and so I just would read every day or so or less but read him until I wouldn't cry so hard.  Reading your words made me start crying as I haven't felt since then!  I can't say much more - just thanks!
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Steve
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« Reply #43 on: Dec 11, 2009, 07:24 AM »

... I think a part of me felt that I might be judged, and that expectation is because I do judge myself harshly and didn't come back until I felt emotionally ready.  ...  I've a long ways to go ...   I feel I don't express myself well either ...

... I would cry & cry and so I just would read every day or so or less but read him until I wouldn't cry so hard.  Reading your words made me start crying as I haven't felt since then! 

Lucius,
  It makes complete sense that you didn't come back until you were emotionally ready.
And, we ALL have a long way to go, even if not everyone can admit that.
You express yourself well enough that people with the ears to hear can hear where you are coming from within yourself.
I say again, how can anyone who cares about the natural reality NOT feel like crying some of the time, after seeing what humans have done, continue doing, to it. Its sacrilege, all done in the name of greed and selfishness, being passed off as some sort of virtue.
take care
Steve
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stephen
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« Reply #44 on: Apr 21, 2010, 10:14 PM »

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Post by: Steve on Nov 17, 2009, 10:26 AM
In terms of moving this discussion forward, if any are interested, I think it would be quite valuable to discuss, given the reality of the present situation, what individuals who have no interest in feeding the darkness at all can DO, daily, to keep these influences at bay, and utilize the light-bearer side of Lucifer to help our own evolution, and through that, make a valuable contribution to the overall collective.

  I came across this thread, and I would like to add a posting to it (Thank you for opening this up, Steve).
  For my part, I try to do small things to make 'room' for others, to ease other's way...hold a door or an elevator with a smile, slow the car down to let the speeder cut in front of me, listen when another needs to talk...really listen.  I try to remind others of the divine within and behind all things, in a non-invasive way, when they are open to it and it seems appropriate.  When I see that someone is overwhelmed, I try to 'talk them down' so to speak, and maybe bring them back to their happiness, or remind them of themself, or...well...just listen, safely.  As I write this...I realize how small it is.  But, I do try to leave others truly laughing about...well...anything, as I interact with them.  I am considered a 'morale officer' as a running joke at my job, as I usually never leave a room without leaving others happier than when I entered the room.
  That was me for most of the time.

  However, sometimes, the pressure of others coming to get cheered up can weigh on me, and trying to figure out other's emotions (I have Aspergers) can wear me out, and I can withdraw and shut others out, and I have no ability to cheer myself up, and I am exacting with myself, and then...I can be rigid with others.  And, so, at that point, I think that I am then perpetuating darkness!!  Which causes me great sadness, and I can feel stuck.  And, so, and I try to isolate myself, not subject others to me...which is perhaps another way to not feed the darkness, I hope.   
  Until suddenly it can just...turn around...and I come back to myself...

  Lately, it is much worse, my internal darkness, and I am afraid that I am spreading much less Light.


  The following quote has helped me to begin to understand that situation (Thank you Adina).
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Post by: adina on Nov 17, 2009, 11:27 PM
I think another really important thing to keep in mind when identifying and dealing with evil is that the cases where it's so very obvious, like the example Lesley gave, or the sociopathic behaviors Steve enumerated, is that most of the time Lucifer/evil remains hidden as it works through our own "weaknesses" - emotions and behaviors intrinsic to our individual souls - and again when we set out to make deep changes, to know God, to evolve. For example, if we a masochistic pathology in which we always put our own wants and needs last, when we begin to earnestly spiritualize our life, we can find ourself making all kinds of excuses why we can't meditate, or practice our yoga, or whatever our practice is. This dynamic is already a part of us, so we don't recognize the INTENSIFIED excuse making as evil. It's this insidiousness that makes it so very difficult to identify in the first place.

  Tonight, I asked my wife why she thinks I am in the last months in such pain, anxiety, self-loathing.  As an example, sometimes, I think I am right and know the truth of something, and then find I am not only wrong, I am so way off that my previous self-righteous behavior is a cause of my own extreme disgust with myself.  I have discussed this with her before, but this time, I said, 'Why can't I live as you do...with a gentle self-image?  Why is my own life's growth so crisis oriented...so pain filled?'

  She said, "Think naturally...  Isn't there anything in nature that grows without pain?  I think that a flower feels true joy as it blossoms...!"

  I said, 'I don't know how to do that...but I am going to go and sit with that thought...'  And I was meditating on that idea, and later thought to come to the site, and then I came across this thread, and thought that I might have value to add to it by sharing my thoughts on it.

  I think that many of the people who come to this site are growing without crisis...and without so much pain.  Is that true...is that possible?  Does anyone care to talk at that point...?

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Post by: mountainheather on Nov 19, 2009, 02:01 PM
I choose things like "the value is in the effort" when I feel hopeless in making any difference at all (one of my weaknesses, and openings for darkness) I also call out in my thoughts things like "grandmothers find me, guide me" or "God'dess find me here", when I feel vulnerable. It's like casting out a line or striking a chord that resonates with a Higher state of mind within me, and an opening for God'dess to guide me immediately, and it works!

  Thank you for that line, Heather: 'Goddess find me here.'  Sometimes I can remind myself of the Divine Mother when I am in that darkening time, but almost always I feel unworthy to call out to her.  But, simply:  'Goddess find me here.'  Thank you.
  I am having great trouble shaking that self-image of worthlessness...  Any thoughts on that, anyone...?  A process or path that has worked for you...?

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what we do daily to...losen the hold of Darkness

  Since I learned the chant, I chant the Gayatri Mantra when I am in the presence of evil, or feel external evil influences, but for a reason which still eludes me, it is very hard for me to remember to do it when I am succumbing to my own dark influence.  If interested, search Wikipedia for details of the Gayatri's meaning, and search the Web for a sound file with an authenticate pronunciation.  Or, Russil Paul has a book 'The Yoga of Sound' which has several chants, including the details of learning to correctly chant the Gayatri.  It is really not hard to learn, and in my experience is very powerful.
  Also, I try to surround myself with a mirrored bubble of divine energy when I feel the 'slimy' energy of someone who is Dark within.  I image a brilliant globe above my head, and use it to 'produce' the bubble around me.

  I have taken to wearing an Ankh, to remind me of the Great God'dess in Her Life-Affirming aspect...and I realized the other day that it is also the shape of the Venus symbol, which is sitting on my natal Moon's North Node, and so it also reminds me both to open my Heart as an evolutionary direction and to remember simply: "LOVE".

  I hope that this is of interest...and doesn't seem too self-serving...

Blessings to everyone,
Stephen
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