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Author Topic: Neptune Archetype  (Read 10544 times)
cat777
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« on: Nov 14, 2013, 06:53 PM »

Hi Linda, Katherine, Skywalker, Ari, Cat and any others who wish to join in on this thread ...

Ok, let's go ahead with our Neptune thread. What I would like all of you to do at first is read, or re-read, the lecture posted of JWG's lecture on Neptune. If you have any questions about any part of that lecture please ask them of me now.

After that I think what I will do is then present other correlations to Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House that are not covered in that lecture. And I would do that in segments wherein each of you could ask me questions as we went along. We could also create a situation wherein I could ask you to submit your own understanding's of the various archetypal correlations as we went along: i.e. Neptune, etc, correlations to delusions. So I could then ask a simple thing of you as in what type of delusions could manifest in a Soul that had Neptune in the 8th house, Neptune is some sort of aspect to another planet, etc.

Please let me know if all of you would like this approach. And, if we do this thread, please consider that I would like your input as we went through these segments in a timely manner.

God Bless, Rad

NEPTUNE'S ARCHETYPAL ROLE IN CONSCIOUSNESS
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php?topic=639.msg10217#msg10217

*****************************

ALL OF THIS MATERIAL IS COPYRIGHTED BY THE COUNCIL OF EVOLUTIONARY ASTROLOGERS
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2014, 07:41 AM by Rad » Logged
cat777
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 14, 2013, 07:36 PM »

I re-read Neptune's Archetypal Role in Consciousness and have two questions:

1)  JWG said,  "We will be talking about this in two very specific ways. One way is called the natural way to spiritualize, which correlates to what we call natural law: The laws of nature which are intrinsic and operate whether the human person is here or not. And then we can talk about how to spiritualize from a patriarchal point of view. And those will be two vastly different things. "

At what point does a soul typically shift towards Natural Law?  I would think during the individuated stage.  Yes?  If so, which division?



2)  Can you elaborate on the meaning of the "Original Spiritual Root?"  Would that be when a particular soul was originally created?
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Rad
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 15, 2013, 07:04 AM »

Hi Cat,

I re-read Neptune's Archetypal Role in Consciousness and have two questions:

1)  JWG said,  "We will be talking about this in two very specific ways. One way is called the natural way to spiritualize, which correlates to what we call natural law: The laws of nature which are intrinsic and operate whether the human person is here or not. And then we can talk about how to spiritualize from a patriarchal point of view. And those will be two vastly different things. "

At what point does a soul typically shift towards Natural Law?  I would think during the individuated stage.  Yes?  If so, which division?

*************

There is no one Natural Law that would correlate to the 'timing' of this for all Souls. At SOME POINT in the natural evolutionary progression of the Soul this will necessarily occur.

**********

2)  Can you elaborate on the meaning of the "Original Spiritual Root?"  Would that be when a particular soul was originally created?

**********

In the context of the lecture that he was giving he was talking about the original spiritual root of all Souls which means and refers too the totality of all Natural Laws.


God bless, Rad
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cat777
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 15, 2013, 08:53 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for clarifying.  I have another question this morning  :-)

In the previous discussion about Neptune, Bradley posted this:

From a 1930's talk on Christ and Krishna:
"Every human being is essentially a soul, covered with a veil of maya.  Through evolution and self-effort, each human makes a little hole in the veil; in time, one makes the hole bigger and bigger.  As the opening enlarges, the consciousness expands; the soul becomes more manifest.  When the veil is completely torn away, the soul is fully manifest in him/her. That woman/man has become a master - master of their self and of maya."

 I was just thinking about this statement and a new question arose.  Just as Saturn correlates with the structure of consciousness, does Neptune correlate with the "veil of maya?"
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Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 15, 2013, 09:11 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for clarifying.  I have another question this morning  :-)

In the previous discussion about Neptune, Bradley posted this:

From a 1930's talk on Christ and Krishna:
"Every human being is essentially a soul, covered with a veil of maya.  Through evolution and self-effort, each human makes a little hole in the veil; in time, one makes the hole bigger and bigger.  As the opening enlarges, the consciousness expands; the soul becomes more manifest.  When the veil is completely torn away, the soul is fully manifest in him/her. That woman/man has become a master - master of their self and of maya."

 I was just thinking about this statement and a new question arose.  Just as Saturn correlates with the structure of consciousness, does Neptune correlate with the "veil of maya?"

Hi Cat,

Yes. And as that veil of maya is progressively pierced by the Soul then the very center of gravity within consciousness, Saturn, shifts from the ego, Moon, to the Soul, Pluto wherein consciousness is Neptune itself. Thus, consciousness of the Soul that has become fully conscious of itself as a Soul.

God bless, Rad
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cat777
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 15, 2013, 11:07 AM »

Thanks again Rad,

I'm thinking about Neptune as the "veil of maya" and as consciousness itself.  I know someone who is very concerned about a close family member who has a serious drug problem.  It seems that drugs and alcohol, or rather drug and alcohol addiction, are attempts to patch up any holes in the veil.  People with these problems enjoy unconsciousness, it is bliss to them. I would assume that the reason why can be found by starting with Pluto an reading the chart as we always do in EA.  Knowing the why is very useful in understanding such individuals, but knowing how to actually help them is another story.  Would a study of Neptune from the perspective of "how to spiritualize your life" or by looking at Neptune's SN and its ruler provide the clues needed to help such a person?

Thanks
cat
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Rad
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 16, 2013, 09:38 AM »

Thanks again Rad,

I'm thinking about Neptune as the "veil of maya" and as consciousness itself.  I know someone who is very concerned about a close family member who has a serious drug problem.  It seems that drugs and alcohol, or rather drug and alcohol addiction, are attempts to patch up any holes in the veil.  People with these problems enjoy unconsciousness, it is bliss to them. I would assume that the reason why can be found by starting with Pluto an reading the chart as we always do in EA.  Knowing the why is very useful in understanding such individuals, but knowing how to actually help them is another story.  Would a study of Neptune from the perspective of "how to spiritualize your life" or by looking at Neptune's SN and its ruler provide the clues needed to help such a person?

Thanks

***********

Hi Cat,

The reasons a Soul can use drugs, alcohol, addictions within that, can varied and have many different causes: not just trying to repair the hole's in maya. As you said it is essential to understand the why, the causes, of such things and then, within that understanding of the individual context, try to come up with ways or solutions out of that that directly reflect that individual context. In these types of cases the best solutions always start with tiny steps leading to big steps. For most it is pretty difficult, if not impossible, to go from a state of addiction to drugs/ alcohol to 'spiritualizing' their life. A few can, I have had experiences of that with certain clients, but most just can't.

God Bless, Rad
cat
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cat777
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 16, 2013, 01:19 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for your reply.  Now I have yet another question, you said

"A few can, I have had experiences of that with certain clients, but most just can't."

In your experience, was there anything that stood out in terms of Pluto's PP, the North Node, its Ruler, Neptune, or any other archetype, in those rare few that were able to shift from their addiction to "spiritualizing their life?"

Just a random thought crossing my mind at the moment, isn't that what AA attempts to do with alcoholics?

Thanks
cat
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Rad
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 17, 2013, 07:30 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for your reply.  Now I have yet another question, you said

"A few can, I have had experiences of that with certain clients, but most just can't."

In your experience, was there anything that stood out in terms of Pluto's PP, the North Node, its Ruler, Neptune, or any other archetype, in those rare few that were able to shift from their addiction to "spiritualizing their life?"

Just a random thought crossing my mind at the moment, isn't that what AA attempts to do with alcoholics?

Thanks
cat

Hi Cat,

There was no one astrological symbol that stood out at all. I am sure, of course, that things like AA can be very useful in terms of breaking the Soul's dependency on alcohol but relative to the totality of how many Soul's on our Earth are either drug addicts and/or alcoholics this would amount to a relative few Souls. In such Soul's who do succeed in breaking these types of addictions, Neptune, the common thread to do of course is desire. Without that desire nothing can break the addiction. That desire must then be coupled with determination and perseverance in order to totally break free. And, typically, these Souls must find something to replace the alcohol and/or drug in their lives that has real meaning: Neptune.

Without that replacement even the most determined Soul who desires to break the addiction can fall back into it because nothing really has replaced it. So this issue then becomes what will create that sense of meaning for these types of Souls. This is where EA astrology can come in. Understanding the underlying EA paradigm coupled with the degree of evolution, consensus, 1st stage, etc, that then leads to understanding the placement of Neptune in each chart which includes it's own nodal axis the the location of the planetary ruler's therein, the sign on the 12th House, the location of it's planetary ruler, the sign Pisces on what house that then refers to the natal house of Neptune, will then provide the vehicles in and through which that meaning can be realized.

And, again, for a Soul who does desire to break free of these addictions is a sustained and determined effort, in most cases, can be encouraged to take, at first, small steps that leads to big steps towards developing or actualizing to total possibilities of that meaning that is symbolized in these ways.

God Bless, Rad

« Last Edit: Nov 17, 2013, 07:41 AM by Rad » Logged
cat777
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 17, 2013, 11:05 AM »

Hi Rad,

Quote
In such Soul's who do succeed in breaking these types of addictions, Neptune, the common thread to do of course is desire. Without that desire nothing can break the addiction. That desire must then be coupled with determination and perseverance in order to totally break free. And, typically, these Souls must find something to replace the alcohol and/or drug in their lives that has real meaning: Neptune.

Without that replacement even the most determined Soul who desires to break the addiction can fall back into it because nothing really has replaced it. So this issue then becomes what will create that sense of meaning for these types of Souls. This is where EA astrology can come in. Understanding the underlying EA paradigm coupled with the degree of evolution, consensus, 1st stage, etc, that then leads to understanding the placement of Neptune in each chart which includes it's own nodal axis the the location of the planetary ruler's therein, the sign on the 12th House, the location of it's planetary ruler, the sign Pisces on what house that then refers to the natal house of Neptune, will then provide the vehicles in and through which that meaning can be realized.

And, again, for a Soul who does desire to break free of these addictions is a sustained and determined effort, in most cases, can be encouraged to take, at first, small steps that leads to big steps towards developing or actualizing to total possibilities of that meaning that is symbolized in these ways.

Yes, that is all so true.  I knew a lot of junkies and coke heads way back when as I was involved in the "music scene."  It is kind of sad, as quite a few of them died in their twenties.  What is shocking is that every now and then I will cross paths with one of the survivors and they still have a drug problem,  Those who shot up heroin may not do that anymore, but now they do coke.  They look horrible from all the abuse their physical bodies have taken over the years. Even though many of these people sometimes expressed a desire to stop and come "clean" as they called it, it seems like very few were able to do so permanently.  It's really sad. Most of these people were talented middle class or upper middle class white kids. Most came from good families.  The only thing that could explain it (other than EA) was that they had addictive personalities. There were also other kids in the same "scene" who did drugs and never became addicted and moved on to live drug free lives.



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Rad
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 18, 2013, 08:04 AM »

Hi Linda, Katherine, Skywalker, Ari, Cat, and Kristin

Ok, we will begin tomorrow, Tuesday, on our Neptune thread. And, again, I plan on going slowly: one step at a time. When I ask of you to submit something based on what we are talking about I would like all of you to do so within one week of asking that of you. We must do it that way to keep to thread moving forwards in a timely way.

God Bless, Rad
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mountainheather
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 18, 2013, 09:32 AM »

Hi Rad and everyone,

I'd like to participate in this thread too. Thank you, I so look forward to this connection.

Heather
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Kristin
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 18, 2013, 11:28 AM »

Hi Rad,

The Neptune article was deeply moving, insightful and so helpful, stirring some deeper pondering.

***

I remember Jeffrey saying that once the Soul leaves the body and reviews its life from the astral plane it can experience this feeling of being aghast at choices NOT made at critical points. That feeling of "What the bleep was I thinking?"

Since Desire(Mars) is directly linked with the rate and speed of our evolution via choice making, at that state and place of observation of the life just lived, these setbacks are witnessed. Once these key points in time are reviewed and understood, does the Soul at this stage also have the lens to see where it is going, in terms of the ultimate (Neptune) goal, not necessarily just the next step, or does this depend on the stage of evolution even in the astral plane?

Can any Soul at this stage ie not in the body anymore, embrace in totality the truth of natural law or if someone is in the consensus state are they still locked into in some cases, say the religious limited lens?
In other words, Can any Soul, regardless of stage of evolution, experience the full scope of its trajectory, where it has been and where it is going, once not in its physical body?


Thanks,
Kristin


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Linda
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 18, 2013, 02:55 PM »

I remember Jeffrey saying that once the Soul leaves the body and reviews its life from the astral plane it can experience this feeling of being aghast at choices NOT made at critical points. That feeling of "What the bleep was I thinking?"

Since Desire(Mars) is directly linked with the rate and speed of our evolution via choice making, at that state and place of observation of the life just lived, these setbacks are witnessed.


Hi Rad,

New choices

Before we start our assignment, I have a question based upon Kristin's quote above.

I feel that right now I am at a critical point of making new choices in this lifetime relative to the current transiting Sun-Mercury-North Node-Saturn in SCORPIO (conjunct my natal NEPTUNE).  I'm sure many others are feeling the same!

I am experiencing a feeling of being aghast at choices I am and am not making at this time.  I am NOT sure which path to take, and what choices to make.  And I'm also not sure if the choices I have already made are going to be the right ones.

Relative to my natal NEPTUNE and because I am serious about my spiritual development (currently at beginning of 1st stage Spiritual), how can I ensure to make the right choices for my Soul at this time?

Is there a way that one can know they are moving in the right direction (towards Source), and not having to face a situation as Kristin described where the Soul, once it has passed over, becomes aghast at the choices it had made.

With Mars currently in Virgo maybe I'm worrying too much, and over-thinking things, but I DO feel the enormity of decisions being made right now.

It is such a momentous time.  What general advice can you give?

Thank you.

Love,

Linda



« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2013, 03:07 PM by Linda » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 19, 2013, 08:54 AM »

Hi Rad and everyone,

I'd like to participate in this thread too. Thank you, I so look forward to this connection.

Heather

Hi Mountainheather,

Nice to have you back.

God bless, Rad
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