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Author Topic: Neptune Archetype  (Read 10851 times)
cat777
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« Reply #150 on: Dec 26, 2013, 02:10 PM »

Happy Holidays to All,

I am loving this subject and everyone's contributions.  I think this is some of the most useful information about Neptune to be found anywhere!

Kristin, it was a nice surprise to see your mention of Threads by Nell Gavin in your example. I think that is one of the best EA books I have ever read, even though it is not an EA book  :-)  I shared a link to your post with Nell and she thinks what you did is "very cool." 

Everyone had so much good stuff to offer!

Happy Holidays,
cat
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Kristin
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« Reply #151 on: Dec 29, 2013, 12:21 AM »

Hi Cat,

I agree this Neptune thread and the way that Rad is setting up each segment is allowing the most comprehensive look into Neptune that I have ever seen or experienced. Everyone's contributions are so valuable.

Also, you can tell Nell that with the exception of the Pluto books of course, there is not another book that I have recommended more than Threads.  It felt as if Gavin channeled Ann's back story to a 'T' and captured the experience of the astral plane as if she where writing from the ethers herself. Everything I read rang through me like bells of truth. With my Pluto in the 3rd New Phase conjunction to Uranus in Virgo and the ruler Mercury retro in Sag on the South Node, it can be next to impossible to hold my attention and I could not put this book down. I screamed at the end because Ann would be faced with, yet again, a choice that would 'make or break her'. We have all been at that critical juncture, have we not?

"So Cool" that you were able to pass mention of the post along to her. She is so deserving of accolades.

Peace,
Kristin

« Last Edit: Dec 29, 2013, 10:48 AM by Kristin » Logged
Kristin
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« Reply #152 on: Dec 29, 2013, 12:39 AM »

Hi All,

Rad, Thank you for sharing the Neptune/Scorpio connection of Yogananda to the chart of Jesus. I began thinking further too about Yukteswar because not only was he Yogananda's guru, it has been written that he may have been one of the magi who followed the STAR to find the baby Jesus in Bethlehem on Christmas. Yukteswar is also the Father of this work we call EA, being that he was the master/teacher who downloaded EA via Sanskrit into JWG's dreams.

I discovered some stunning Neptune/Pisces connections to these five Souls. I also included the Scorpio synastry as this is part of the water trinity with Pluto/Scorpio governing the evolution and the Soul.

Essential for Spiritual work - a strong Neptune/Pisces lunar influence for necessary COMPASSION and also a direct union with God. The lunar component completes the water trinity as Moon rules Cancer. Strong water signatures would be present in any Soul in the advanced stages of evolution.

JWG - Pisces Moon
Kriyananda - Neptune conjunct Moon
Yogananda - Pisces Moon
Yukteswar - Pisces Moon
Jesus - Pisces Moon


The crazy and often delusional PROJECTIONS of others that inevitably occurs as the Soul advances into 3rd Stage Spiritual. Seen with Venus (lower octave of Neptune) in stress to Neptune, also 7th house-Aquarius/Uranus/11th.


JWG-  Pisces Moon square the Nodes, SN1st/NN7th, ruler Neptune in Libra 11th, ruler Venus rx rising in Scorpio
Kriyananda - Venus in Aries in the 11th Square the Nodes, ruler Mars in Pisces
Yogananda - Neptune conjunct North Node oppose Venus
Yukteswar - Venus Square Neptune in Pisces
Jesus - Neptune in Pisces Square Venus, Pluto/Mars opposing Venus

METAMORPHIC WORK FOR THE SOUL - Scorpio signatures
All 5 of these Souls have either a South Node in Scorpio or the ruler of the South Node is in Scorpio.


JWG - Jupiter, ruler of his SN is in Scorpio in the 12th,  Mercury, ruler of his North Node in Scorpio as well. He also has a Scorpio Asc, and Venus rx in Scorpio conjunct the Asc.
Kriyananda - Ruler of the South Node is Saturn in Scorpio, Pluto conjunct North Node
Yogananda - South Node conjunct Uranus in Scorpio, Mars, lead pt in the Soul’s evol in the 8th.
Yukteswar -  South Node in Scorpio conjunct Neptune, South Node of Mars in Scorpio conjunct SN
Jesus - South Node in Scorpio, conjunct Neptune, Pluto oppose Pisces stellium
 
The South Node in Scorpio for Yogananda, Yukteswar and Jesus are all conjunct. Coincidence? And JWG's stellium lands on this South Node along with Kriyananda's Saturn.

EA continues to blow me away!

Thanks again Rad for drawing the incredible synastry to my attention.

Peace,
Kristin





* JWG.jpg (77.45 KB, 1267x702 - viewed 30 times.)

* Kriyananda.jpg (76.17 KB, 1267x702 - viewed 29 times.)

* YoganandaChart.jpg (77.52 KB, 1267x702 - viewed 29 times.)

* Yukteswar.jpg (76.57 KB, 1267x702 - viewed 32 times.)
« Last Edit: Dec 30, 2013, 11:06 AM by Kristin » Logged
Kristin
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« Reply #153 on: Dec 29, 2013, 11:39 AM »

I could only include 4 charts in my prior post so adding Jesus' here if you are interested in viewing the synastry.

Peace,
Kristin


* jesus' chart.jpg (142.5 KB, 495x500 - viewed 41 times.)
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cat777
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« Reply #154 on: Dec 29, 2013, 08:28 PM »

Hi Kristin,

" It felt as if Gavin channeled Ann's back story to a 'T' and captured the experience of the astral plane as if she where writing from the ethers herself."  

That is how I felt too.  So strongly that I sought Nell out and asked if I could do her chart  :-)  We had some very interesting metaphysical discussions. I believe she said she "downloaded" the book.  She credits it from coming from somewhere else.  It's like Anne wanted her story told and Nell's soul agreed to be the one to do it.  

That book changed my whole perception of Anne Boleyn (which was based on books, movies and tv series that portrayed her a less than positive light).   And it enhanced my understanding of EA.  It's a great EA book for non-astrologers.

Glad you like it too!

And thanks for posting those charts and those amazing correspondences!  Lots to study there!

cat

« Last Edit: Dec 29, 2013, 08:41 PM by cat777 » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #155 on: Dec 30, 2013, 08:03 AM »

Hi Ari, Kristin, Cat, Skywalker, Linda, or anyone else that wishes to join us ..

I need to take a bit of a break, so we will start up again right after the new year: January 2nd.

Until then ..

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #156 on: Jan 02, 2014, 09:02 AM »

Hi Linda, Skywalker, Kristin, Cat, Ari and anyone else who wishes to join us....

So we will now continue in our ongoing understanding of the Neptune, the 12th House, and Pisces. In this next step which is intentionally simple we will examine one of the more sad dimensions of these archetypes: DECEPTION.

Any given Soul can be deceived and/or be the deceiver: or both. Any given Soul can of course also deceive themselves into 'believing' something is either true about themselves that is not, or allow themselves to be deceived because of some underlying need that dictates believing in the deception of another(s).

One of the core reasons that any given Soul can be deceived by another is rooted in what JWG called 'emotional assumptions' emanating from a consciousness that is inwardly defined by Natural Laws wherein there is an expectation that all humans treat one another according to those laws. In Natural Law there is no need to deceive because all humans are working together, in union, on behalf of the whole of the humans that are interacting among themselves. A simple example of one of those laws is the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion. 

So a Soul that is aligned with those Natural Laws simply assumes THAT ALL OTHERS ARE IN FACT DOING SO WHEN THEY ARE NOT. Such Souls are then shocked when the actual reality of another(s) manifests that is in violation of those Natural Laws: another(s) purposeful deception of this kind of Soul.

Soul's that are not aligned with these Natural Laws, those who have identified with the perversion of those laws, then become the Soul's who are able to then deceive others in order to accomplish some sort of agenda that they inwardly feel they could not otherwise actualize. This reflects the perversion of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion to one of SELF INTEREST AND EXCLUSION. This type of Soul can then also attempt to convince itself of it's own delusions about itself: that is is not doing what it is actually doing.

Because of the Natural Law of karma wherein an action will have a proportionate reaction these types of Souls then set themselves up to also be deceived by others. Yet because of their own deceptions about themselves that manifests as denying their actual reality they then can feel VICTIMIZED by others who are in fact doing exactly what they themselves are doing.

By creating a consciousness that is now victimized these Souls then create rationalizations to victimize others by way of their agendas to get back at the others whom they have deceived themselves into believing that they have themselves been victimized by.

So when we look into any given birth chart we can see where all of these Neptune archetypes of deception can manifest. We can see it by way of the house and sign of the S.Node of Neptune and the location by house/ sign and aspects to it's ruler: Uranus. All Soul's on Earth have their collective S.Nodes of Neptune in Aquarius which we will be discussing later on as we progress in this thread.

The placement of the natal Neptune by it's own house and sign, and aspects to it, correlate with any given Soul bringing the past archetypes of deception into the current life consciousness. In other words the natal house and sign of Neptune in the current life correlates to the vehicles that the Soul is using in the current life that brings forth the past life dynamics of deception in order to deal with them in one way or the other in the context of the current life.

The N.Node of Neptune, which of course is in Leo for all Souls, by it's own house and sign and the aspects to it, correlates with how the Soul is intending to take charge of of these existing dynamics involving deception in order to do what is necessary about them so that, hopefully and intentionally, that they are eliminated from the consciousness of the Soul: either by not allowing itself to be deceived by others ever again, or by exposing the inner deceptions the Soul has about itself that then manifests as deceiving others and/ or allowing itself to be deceived because of some need that has created that deception in the first place.

In the context of the current life the sign on the 12th House, the location of it's planetary ruler with aspects to it, and where the sign Pisces is on a given house cusp which then of course refers back to the totality of the Neptune archetype, it's North and South Nodes, are additional vehicles or doors through which the archetype of deception can manifest.

So in this segment I would like you to examine the dynamics of deception by way of putting natal Neptune in any sign/ house that you wish. If you desire to expand on this by way of the Nodal Axis of Neptune, the location of it's rulers, etc, please feel free to do so.

If you have any question of me please ask them now. The deadline for this segment will be January 13th.

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #157 on: Jan 02, 2014, 10:48 AM »

Thank you so much for articulating this and offering this next practice opportunity Rad. This is such a powerful and healing realm to be exploring.
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Rad
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« Reply #158 on: Jan 03, 2014, 06:05 AM »

Hi Ari,

And thank you for participating in this thread, as well as all the others you have. Your understanding and insights that you provide help all those that come to this EA message board to understand the true depth and power of EA.

God Bless, Rad
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Stacie
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« Reply #159 on: Jan 09, 2014, 06:22 PM »

Hello Rad,

I get confused (neptune) about the archetypal distinctions between dishonesty and deception. Dishonesty correlates to sagg, and deception to pisces.  In my brain these are so synonymous that I'm having trouble distinguishing the two in the exercise.  When we're looking at dynamics of deception, are we basically looking at the manner or level dishonesty has been/is applied?…is this the distinction?

Thank you for any clarification,

Stacie
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Linda
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« Reply #160 on: Jan 09, 2014, 06:49 PM »

Hi Rad,

Following on from Stacie's question.....

Does "deception" principally take place on an "unconscious" level?  In my experience and what I perceive in others, it is mainly coming from the unconscious due to evolutionary intentions, but that it can be very conscious too.  When it is unconscious, it is self-delusional (self-deception) and unintentional.  When it is conscious, it is deception of others and very intentional.  

How do we gauge the level of conscious deception?  I'm thinking if the natal Neptune is in a water house, especially the 12th, it could be more unconscious, while if it is in, say, a fire or air house, example 1st house or near the MC, it could be more conscious or intentional.  What do you think?

This brings me to another question.  What is the sign that correlates to "intention?"  Scorpio probably.

Thanks,

Linda
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Stacie
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« Reply #161 on: Jan 09, 2014, 07:42 PM »

Thanks too for your great questions Linda..  

It occurred to me that perhaps another distinguishing factor between saggittarian dishonesty and piscean deception might be the degree to which illusion is actively serving as the vehicle for the dishonesty….i.e. an emphasis on what isn't 'real' (piscean deception) versus emphasis on what isn't 'true' (saggitarian dishonesty)..  If correct this also ties in the piscean factor of 'potential', a common tool used within deception….because until a given potential is actualized in reality, it isn't yet 'real'.  Thoughts on this?  (I hope these questions aren't redundant!)

Thank you!

Stacie
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Rad
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« Reply #162 on: Jan 10, 2014, 08:20 AM »

Hello Rad,

I get confused (neptune) about the archetypal distinctions between dishonesty and deception. Dishonesty correlates to sagg, and deception to pisces.  In my brain these are so synonymous that I'm having trouble distinguishing the two in the exercise.  When we're looking at dynamics of deception, are we basically looking at the manner or level dishonesty has been/is applied?…is this the distinction?

and then you asked: "It occurred to me that perhaps another distinguishing factor between saggittarian dishonesty and piscean deception might be the degree to which illusion is actively serving as the vehicle for the dishonesty….i.e. an emphasis on what isn't 'real' (piscean deception) versus emphasis on what isn't 'true' (saggitarian dishonesty)..  If correct this also ties in the piscean factor of 'potential', a common tool used within deception….because until a given potential is actualized in reality, it isn't yet 'real'.  Thoughts on this?  (I hope these questions aren't redundant!)"

Thank you for any clarification,

Stacie

Hi Stacie,

First, we need to remember that Pisces, Sagittarius, Virgo, and Gemini, and their planetary rulers, are all part of the mutable grand cross. As such these archetypes interact within and among themselves. Thus, Sagittarius does correlate to the archetype of lying, being dishonest. To lie and be dishonest has many forms and applications where those various forms, types, and applications are then linked to the other signs, planets, within the mutable grand cross. Those other forms, types, and applications of course are all caused by the underlying archetypes of dishonesty or lying.

Deception, as you said, is also linked with the archetype of illusion or delusion which of course are archetypes that are specific to Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House. This is why in this thread we have already focused upon and discussed those archetypes. And since we have we can now move on to the archetype of deception because of it's link, relatedness, to illusion and delusion. Of course deception is a form of being dishonest, or to lie.

To contrast this with another form, type, or application that is ROOTED in dishonesty or lying is denial where denial specifically correlates with Virgo, Mercury, and the 6th House. Or duplicity where being duplicit correlates to Gemini, the 3rd House, and also Mercury. Thus, a Soul can be in denial of being duplicit ! And then that Soul could convince itself, where convincing as an archetype correlates with Sagittarius, Jupiter, and the 9th house that it is not in a state of denial relative to being duplicit. In so doing that Soul is then are also deceiving itself relative to being in a state of delusion that is rooted in the underlying dishonesty itself.  

This is an example of how the mutable cross interacts within itself relative to the archetypes that are specific to each of the signs, and their planetary rulers.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2014, 11:10 AM by Rad » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #163 on: Jan 10, 2014, 09:08 AM »

Hi Rad,

Following on from Stacie's question.....

Does "deception" principally take place on an "unconscious" level?  In my experience and what I perceive in others, it is mainly coming from the unconscious due to evolutionary intentions, but that it can be very conscious too.  When it is unconscious, it is self-delusional (self-deception) and unintentional.  When it is conscious, it is deception of others and very intentional.  

How do we gauge the level of conscious deception?  I'm thinking if the natal Neptune is in a water house, especially the 12th, it could be more unconscious, while if it is in, say, a fire or air house, example 1st house or near the MC, it could be more conscious or intentional.  What do you think?

************

Hi Linda

First, we must remember that generally 80% of any given Soul's 'conscious' actions within itself that manifests external to itself are rooted or caused by the individuated unconscious or sub-conscious. It is this dynamic within the totality of the consciousness of the Soul that correlates with Uranus, the 11th House, and Aquarius. This dynamic or component of our total consciousness of the Soul correlates to long term memories, the memories of the Soul itself coming through time: all of it's previous lives. All of these memories thus condition the very nature of how any given Soul thinks, acts, behaves, and what it desires. They condition the very nature of the totality of the emotions of the Soul where emotions are reactive and reflective as to what the Soul has created for itself coming through time manifesting as specific prior lives that are all stored within the Soul that then manifests in it's individualized consciousness, unconscious,  in each life. Thus, the current life circumstances the the Soul creates for itself all serve to 'trigger' all those stored memories and emotions that come with the Soul into the current life in such a way as to 'condition' the Soul response or reactions to those circumstances.

"How do we gauge the level of conscious deception?"

Deception, being deceived, deceiving, or both can occur within the egocentric consciousness of the Soul as well as in its subconscious or individuated unconsciousness. As the Soul naturally evolves through the four natural evolutionary states the level or degree of what the Soul is conscious of increases, and that which is unconscious of subconscious decreases. Thus, as the Soul evolves there does come a time in which the Soul is utterly conscious of it's own totality in such a way that it's consciousness has no boundary between what is is conscious of, and that which it is not. The Soul has liberated, Uranus, itself from this division within consciousness that most Souls have.

So to understand this question requires an understanding of the evolutionary state of any given Soul. It is not understood by the natal house/ sign of Neptune at all. For most, the consensus state, deceiving, being deceived, or both operates primarily at a subliminal level within their consciousness. When this is so that subliminal degree of awareness can be 'objectified', Uranus, either through external confrontations by others who have been deceived by the Soul or through inner confrontations by the Soul to itself that is caused by the a desire to understand why it is allowing itself, or attracting to itself, deceptive type circumstances. This is not to say that the archetype of deception can not be utterly conscious within this consensus state because it can.

As the Soul naturally evolves through the four evolutionary states, again, correlates to what degree the Soul is consciously aware of anything including deception, and the underlying causes or reasons of why deception is occurring in the first place.

"This brings me to another question.  What is the sign that correlates to "intention?"  Scorpio probably."

Yes, Scorpio, Pluto, and the 8th House.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2014, 11:16 AM by Rad » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #164 on: Jan 10, 2014, 09:22 AM »

Hi Rad, and Linda

Quote
"This brings me to another question.  What is the sign that correlates to "intention?"  Scorpio probably."

Yes, Scorpio, Pluto, and the 8th House.

And Pisces? ... Scorpio because intention is essentially desire. And Pisces, because the ‘value’ and meaning of whatever we can do, is always in the intention from an ultimate point of view.

Also, I would add that, while the underlying dynamics and bottom line reasons that lead to wanting to deceive, can always be more or less subconscious, depending on the evolutionary condition, until the subconscious has become totally conscious, and then, there would be no reasons to wanting to deceive. However, I would say deception itself, or the specific intention and act of deceiving, can be subconscious, but it can also be totally conscious at any evolutionary stage. Many different legal systems contemplate criminal offenses or felonies which are based on the conscious intention to deceive. And beyond this, many people go around consciously deceiving others in different ways. In other words, I would add a difference between the deception itself, and the underlying dynamics and desires that lead to wanting to deceive.  

Does this make sense to you ?

God Bless, Gonzalo
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2014, 10:16 AM by Gonzalo » Logged
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