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Skywalker
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« on: Feb 02, 2014, 06:56 AM »

Rad,

I have been looking into a phenomena that manifests in some people who consume psychedelics such as Psilocybin, Peyote or LSD. This seems to happen with natural and chemical substances. HPPD or Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder. Which some people call a disorder and others call a of deepening of the persons perception and awareness.

I would like to know what your view of this is, if possible.

Thank you

All the best
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 02, 2014, 07:07 AM »

Rad,

I have been looking into a phenomena that manifests in some people who consume psychedelics such as Psilocybin, Peyote or LSD. This seems to happen with natural and chemical substances. HPPD or Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder. Which some people call a disorder and others call a of deepening of the persons perception and awareness.

I would like to know what your view of this is, if possible.

Thank you

All the best

*******

Hi Skywalker,

Can you tell me more about this disorder.

God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 02, 2014, 07:21 AM »

Yes, when people do psychedelics repeatedly, some get a continuation of the visual effects that persist and it creates a web like film or static that is over all they see. For some it can create geometric patterns and have various colours. This is specially present with closed eyes or in the dark. It can be as if there are "molecules and atoms" that are visible. That is the best I can explain it.

Scientific research says it can have to do with heightened neural synchrony.


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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 02, 2014, 07:39 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

"Scientific research says it can have to do with heightened neural synchrony."

This would be true because when those types of drugs are taken, which are all chemical concoctions of some kind, this trigger the pineal to also secret melatonin. In combination with the synthetic chemicals combined with the natural hormone this creates it's own kind of 'cellular memory'. Cellular memories are just that: memories contained within the cellular structure of the body. In this case, those cells are within the brain, it's neurons, neurotransmitters, and dendrites. In combination those then create the various patterns that you are describing.

Interesting timing of your inquiry because next week, probably Monday, the next segment on our Neptune thread will be all about the physiology of the brain and how the physiology correlates to all kinds of states of consciousness. One of those will cover the entire area physiological imbalances that can lead to neuroses, psychosis, multi-personalities, and so on.

So we can certainly go into what you are asking about in more detail then if you would like.

God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 02, 2014, 07:50 AM »

Rad,

Yes I´d like to, thanks!

It would be great to really figure this out and get to the bottom of it as there are many who think they are going insane and "suffer in silence" due to fear of being judged by others in society.

Thanks again

All the best
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Rad
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 02, 2014, 07:54 AM »

Rad,

Yes I´d like to, thanks!

It would be great to really figure this out and get to the bottom of it as there are many who think they are going insane and "suffer in silence" due to fear of being judged by others in society.

Thanks again

All the best

Skywalker,

Ok, we will do it then. Like anything else it is a matter of understanding the cause. Understanding the cause, which ultimately becomes the person ingesting these drugs, can help in the understanding as to 'why' these effects. It won't change that effect, but at least it can be understood.

God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 03, 2014, 06:48 AM »

Rad,

The causes for people to ingest substances can vary as we know but it´s mostly escapist tendencies in the western type of societies or it can be for consciousness expansion and shamanic healing such as in the use of Peyote or Ayahuasca in Mexico or the Amazon.

Here is a report from someone describing his experience with HPPD, in his case it does´t seem to be an issue but more of an improvement. That is my interest because for some it seems to be really debilitating as they cannot integrate the changes within their perception in a positive way and assume they are going crazy. Others see it as an improvement in their perception.

"Over the years I have used a variety of psychedelics, namely mushrooms, LSD, San Pedro, as well as DMT in a variety of forms, and a spattering of others, with cannabis featuring more regularly until recently.

HPPD is real. I’ve never had what I would call a ‘flashback’, although on returning from the Peruvian Amazon, one night I woke up to find myself in an ayahuasca visionary trance for a few seconds. My experience of HPPD is really quite a subtle one; it doesn’t cause me any distress and doesn’t interfere with my life in any way. Sometimes I may say faint fractal patterns on things like the carpet or cloths for example, but these are very subtle. Against a backdrop of white, or looking at rippling water, I may notice a few subtle colours now and again. When I’m on the train looking out with trees going past me, or on the road with street lamps acting as strobes with my eyes shut, I start to see fractal patterns. When its dark, I will often see little coloured pixels moving, or shimering slighlty. Looking into a fire also brings out these fractals. Cannabis definitely seems more psychedelic these days. Sometimes I may get tracers.

That’s about it really though. Nature seems more beautiful than ever, with sunrises and sunsets being particularly spectacular (‘mescaline sunsets’). Clouds are an amazing canvas for the imagination; I have a newfound appreciation for them. Music has the ability to enrapture me on a new level. And, I do daydream a lot, but to be honest I’ve always done that. So I can’t really say anything negative about it. In fact, its very subtle, low level quality serves as a reminder of past experiences, and I would say my perspective on the world is actually an improvement on what it used to be."

Below I attached an image someone else made to exemplify his HPPD. It seems to be a pretty extreme case thou but is a good example as it shows the geometric web like patterns.

Just a quick question relative to psychosis. Isn´t psychosis a Pluto, Scorpio and 8th house dynamic?

Thank you Rad, this is really interesting!


* HPPD Example.jpg (192.12 KB, 1229x922 - viewed 33 times.)
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Rad
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 03, 2014, 07:08 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

"Just a quick question relative to psychosis. Isn´t psychosis a Pluto, Scorpio and 8th house dynamic?"

*****

In the end anything that goes on within the consciousness of the Soul correlates with Pluto, the 8th House, and Scorpio. On the other hand any unstable condition within consciousness that correlates with a variety of dynamics such as psychosis, neurosis, etc correlates with Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House because of the physiological imbalances that correlate with these phenomena. Imbalances correlate with Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House. When there are physiological imbalances within the brain then the consciousness within it can then manifest a variety of dynamics such as psychosis. This is why your questions concerning HPPD correlate to this. If I put a psychedelic drug into my body I am at the same time altering the natural physiology in my brain. In turn this then alters my consciousness.   

Of course Scorpio, Pluto, and the 8th House correlate to the natural trinity of Neptune, the 12th House, and Cancer, the Moon, and the 4th House. So here we can see the total symbolism for these various unstable states with consciousness that are focused through the egocentric structure of the Soul itself.


God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2014, 07:24 AM by Rad » Logged
cat777
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 03, 2014, 08:47 AM »

Hi,

  I read an article about Ayahuasca not too long ago.  If I am lucky, I will remember where and find it for you.  What stood out to me was a paragraph or two about how a lot of people started out taking it in order to induce a mystical experience.  After having one, they would take it again and again and eventually become addicted to mystical experiences (not the drug, but the experience).  The point being made, however, was that from a spiritual point of view, they weren't doing anything to serve God or humanity, so these experiences were not doing anything as far as what we would call "evolving" goes. 

I hope I can find this article again as it was really interesting.

cat
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cat777
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 03, 2014, 08:51 AM »

Here is one of the articles in mentioned in my previous post.  I think there is another as well, but this one is quite interesting and I thought Skywalker might enjoy it:

http://realitysandwich.com/156512/ayahuasca_addiction_and_ego/
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Skywalker
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 03, 2014, 02:58 PM »

Hi Cat,

Thanks for sharing the article and for contributing.

I think it has a lot to do with the intentions of whoever uses something such as Ayahuasca which is actually referred to by some shamans as "el remedio" meaning the medicine or the "vine of death" (ego death that is) or something similar. If used with healing intentions I have seen people deal with a lot of emotional and psychological baggage. If someone is looking for the next thrill or kaleidoscopic hallucinations and fairies or something to tell their friends about... then I suppose it´s natural that there will be a sense of insatisfaction as it´s one more separating desire in the end. I think the addiction to mystical experiences is potentially just another form of escapism and very rare with something like Ayahuasca. These healing experiences are usually not fun at all and involve intense nausea and vomiting as a way to purge and heal. Again, I think if used with healing intentions and preferably with a real shaman, one can indeed evolve and grow. It´s up to the individual to be responsible for his/her desires. Remember, these are shamanic plants and sacred medicines that are thousands of years old, not party drugs or something to induce mystical experiences just for the sake of it. Shamans use these plants to access inner knowledge not accessible otherwise, to contact their ancestors or spirit guides and have deeper insight into whatever is necessary to heal themselves or others.

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cat777
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 03, 2014, 05:29 PM »

Hi Skywalker,

I pretty much agree with what you are saying.  Have you ever read any of Carlos Castaneda's books?  They were big back in the "psychedelic era."  I've sort of skim read parts of them.  Although they sound fascinating, I learned that I am more interested in meditating or contemplating upon my own personal spiritual experiences than reading someone else's, but thought I would bring him up in case you have not heard of him as you may be interested in his work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

cat
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Skywalker
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 04, 2014, 05:46 AM »

Cat,

Yes I do know about Carlos Castaneda and his teacher Don Juan but not in much detail, funny as I was on their official site a couple weeks ago. Regarding spirituality, I think it can be interesting to read the experiences of others but one can only truly learn how to swim by getting wet.

Thanks again
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Skywalker
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 04, 2014, 06:06 AM »

Rad,

Relative to the deeper levels of awareness that shamans or others are able to access with the use of psychedelics and HPPD, my concern or interest would be to figure out if the persisting visuals they see are in fact a deepening of their own awareness or a kind of visual reflection of their inner mental process. I think it may be the case and not a disorder since when they enter altered states of awareness, those geometric patterns evolve and turn into deeper more complex patterns or some sort of portal. I don´t know if I´m making this clear but it seems that the persisting visuals are  a kind of memory, maybe the cellular memory you mentioned, of the way inwards to much deeper states. It also seems that HPPD and those geometric patterns seem to be a sort of reflection of the mind, that is projected onto their surroundings. A kind of Uranian projection that is reflecting the mind and it´s current psychological/emotional state and is witnessing these patterns from within itself, potentially creating a right brain vision, Jupiter, to teach or show whatever the vision or patterns reflect and it´s meaning are to the logical Mercury side of the brain in order to integrate into Saturn´s structural “reality” and emotional, egocentric self, Moon.

This is what I came up with after some contemplation.

Is reflection like the reflection we see in the mirror Uranus? And what about reflected light?

Thank you

All the best
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Skywalker
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 06, 2014, 05:58 AM »

Hi Rad,

Here is a quote from an article that I found on Time magazine by Author Maia Szalavitz that seems to go hand in hand with what I was contemplating.

"Indeed, the new research bolsters the idea of “psychedelic” as an accurate label for these drugs. The word was originally coined by Huxley, from the Greek “psyche” for mind or soul and “delos” for manifest. A growing body of literature suggests that these drugs can indeed help scientists understand the workings of the mind and brain, by revealing some of the underpinnings of consciousness."

Some have argued, for example, that the geometric visual hallucinations commonly seen by people on psychedelics (and by some sufferers of migraines) help reveal the architecture of the brain’s visual processing mechanism. “One hypothesis is that what you’re actually seeing is the functional organization of the visual cortex itself. The visual cortex is organized in a sort of fractal way [it repeats the same patterns in different sizes]. It’s the same way that fractals are everywhere in nature. Like tree branches, the brain recapitulates [itself],” says Carhart-Harris. “You’re not seeing the cells themselves, but the way they’re organized — as if the brain is revealing itself to itself.”

Rad, did you see my question about reflection in the prior post?

Thanks

All the best
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