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ari moshe
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Posts: 1232


« Reply #105 on: Apr 28, 2014, 06:52 PM »

Hi everyone!

For our next step we will apply Pluto in the context of the south node in order to understand the underlying desires of the soul that have created it's past lives, and the specific kind of identity structure the soul has created as a vehicle for it's desires.

Pluto is always the "why" behind the south node because every identity has a REASON for the identity. Thus when we look at the south node we are going to give context to it by tuning into the underlying evolutionary purpose/necessity inherent in the position of natal Pluto itself.

You may wish to research all the plethora of material and examples on the mb and glossary on Pluto and the south node.

What I invite everyone to do is to pick any south node placement (by house, sign, or house and sign) and any Pluto placement (by house, sign, or house and sign) and to consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to pursue those desires? What kind of unique soul-evolutionary context is implied with this particular south node/Pluto combination? How has the soul chosen to respond to evolutionary necessity? What are the strengths the soul may have developed? What are the limitations?

Fun option for doing this practice: take the Pluto position you chose for your Pluto practice and the south node position you chose for your south node practice and put those together!

Here are some teachings on Pluto and the south node from JWG's talk about the planetary method of chart interpretation that Rad posted in the JWG planetary method of chart interpretation thread. In this talk I feel he addresses the core relationship between the soul and the ego in a very clear way.

With love,
Ari Moshe

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php?topic=832.msg16808#msg16808


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A Planetary Method of Chart Analysis
Jeffrey Wolf Green
Astro2000, Denver, CO 2000
[/b]

      What I’d like to do is try to make this as experiential for you this morning as possible, and the way I would like to do that is for all of you to keep your own particular birth chart in your head now as we go through this specific method so you can apply it immediately to your own case.

      This particular method is very sequential; it is very Virgo like, ABC in nature, leading to a very deductive and Virgo-like analysis. In total, you will then find that once you employ this particular methodology--ABC--this will lead to a Pisces kind of awareness, meaning inductive, wherein you can see the whole first and then immediately grasp all the parts.  So it is like going from Virgo to Pisces. Now as we go through this system, when you have questions, please ask me when you have the question, because the intention is to keep this as clear as possible as we are moving through it.

      So the very first way we want to start the system is, of course, with Pluto. This is number one on your list; meaning as we go through this it is going to be like an outline. So we want to start with Pluto. We can ask a Pluto question: Why? And what we have here from a Plutonian point of view, of course, is the direct connection to the Soul, the Soul itself. Now, of course, if we understand this, the Soul is going to create the overall personality structure in any given life that is uniquely orientated to phenomenal reality in such a way that that unique orientation experiences the phenomenal reality in a way that is consistent with the evolutionary intentions and karmic requirement that the Soul has in any given life.

      So we want to locate the natal position of Pluto first by house and sign. What is this going to be demonstrating? We have to remember that the nature of the Soul linked with time and space reality is simultaneously linked with the principle that we call evolution. Evolution is a dynamic in time and space reality that is beyond debate. The simplest way to know evolution: Is it not true that everybody on this planet, everyone in this room, inwardly always has an inner feeling of being in a continuous state of becoming? Who does not have such a feeling? So you can see right away just through normal life experience that this is a principle, a truth if you will, that applies to all people everywhere as long as we are living in time-space reality.

      Now, if we linked evolution to the principle of the Soul, we ask a logical question: What is, in fact, the inner mechanism or dynamic within the Soul that causes evolution? The answer is straightforward, simple, and basic as most natural truths are. The answer is, in fact, the very same answer that came out of the enlightenment of the famous Buddha under the famous Bodhi tree, when he pondered the nature of sorrow and pain, misery and the like. What was actually promoted in Buddhism terms as Nirvana was based on the awareness within him called desire.

      In each Soul there are two competing and antithetical desires that create evolution. One desire is a separating desire, meaning to separate away from what we can call God. And these sorts of desires are many, myriad, manifesting in typical ways as the desire for the new lover, the new possession, the new career ambition, whatever.  All Souls have these desires, and simultaneous with the desire and coequal to it is the desire to return to that which has created the Soul in the first place.  So, in effect, the essence of the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination (Pluto) of all separating desires to the exclusion of only one desire which can remain, which is to unite with the source of the Soul itself.

      This is a very simple natural truth that operates independent of what we call astrology and can be validated by every single one of us in this room. In fact, it can be validated by everybody on earth.  The simplest way to know it, again: Is not true that we can have whatever separating desire, oh we want this new thing over here, this, that or whatever, and we may have the ability to obtain that which we are desiring, and, of course, we have a momentary sense of satisfaction when we get it. But once we get it, what soon replaces the sense of satisfaction is, in effect, the sense of dissatisfaction, the sense of something more. It is exactly the sense of dissatisfaction that is mirroring and echoing this ultimate desire to return and to reunite with the source of all things. Who of you has not known this to be your own experience? You see, it is universal.

       So the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination of all separating desires. The duality of these antithetical desires is intrinsic within the Soul and is what the psychologists call the basis of free choice.

      Now, when we look at the nature of the natal position of Pluto, we are looking at two simultaneous phenomena, which is why we are starting with this number A on our Virgo list.  Number one, it will describe very succinctly the types of desires that the soul has had prior to the current life, relative to its evolutionary necessities, its evolutionary intentions.  That does not mean, by the way, that that is going to correlate or reflect all the prior lives that the Soul has had. The point is that the soul in any given life will only draw upon specific prior life times that have a direct connection to or bearing on the current life evolutionary intentions. The Sanskrit archetype for that is called Prarabdha Karma.

      So, what the natal position of Pluto is demonstrating is the specific prior lifetimes and orientations that have direct bearing on the current lifetime. A simple example: What if we are dealing with a ninth house Pluto individual?  We can make a very simple Piscean/ Virgo deduction that this would have been a Soul who, prior to the current life, one way or another, was desiring to understand its individual connection to the cosmological reality we call the universe, meaning natural desires to understand philosophy and cosmology and metaphysics, religion (even if that's atheism), anything that is a form of philosophy connected to the cosmos. Are we clear? Good.

      And now what would that mean coming into the current life? And this is one of the secrets about Pluto that most people don't realize, i.e. when you read it in your happy books that it somehow connects to compulsion, obsession, defensiveness, resistance to change and all these things, and these things are accurate, but they never tell you why, and it is because at this point Pluto is going to correlate with the deepest sources of your unconscious sense of security. Keeping in mind that security is a function of self-consistency. Self-consistency is a function of the past, meaning what has come before. Again, how many of you would totally and wholly embrace the experience of absolute insecurity? No takers? Hmm? Ever wonder why we have compulsion, obsession? That's what psychologists call repetitive compulsion. 

      So by looking at the natal position of Pluto (house and sign), beyond the metaphysical point of view, you are describing in anybody’s life the sources that correlate with the deepest sense of unconscious security in the person. And in coming into the current life, the person instinctually gravitates to those sources in order to maintain a sense of self-consistency equaling security. Now clearly, if the soul stayed right there, there would, in fact, be no evolution. So this becomes a first point to examine. The next point is to determine how it is that soul is going to grow or evolve in the current life. And the answer very happily is that the next step (evolution) is determined--because we have to remember that we are living in a universe, time/space, that of itself is defined by the law of polarity--by the opposite house and sign of the natal position of Pluto.

      So, following our example of the ninth house, it is, of course, naturally in opposition to the third house. Now, one of the natural problems in the ninth house/Sagittarius/Jupiter archetype is that it correlates, in essence, with the nature of phenomenal reality in total. And it is the ninth house in any chart--Jupiter/Sagittarius, archetypically natural law-- that creates the awareness in the human organism, in each person, that we are in fact connected to something much larger than just the earth itself. It creates the awareness that we are connected to a solar system, universes, and galaxies. And this sort of natural awareness gives rise to the philosophical questions that all human beings ask: What does it all mean? How are we connected to this thing?

      One of the problems of the ninth house is that it will typically orientate to a portion of the overall truth, and then consider that particular portion to be the total truth, which is why we call it the Billy Graham Archetype, meaning the need to convince and convert other people to your particular point of view. Why? In order to feel secure. This is why in this case we are going to have a have a third house polarity.

       Most of us have already realized in our happy books that Gemini correlates with diversity, yes?  Most of us realized,--particularly for those that find yourself to be Gemini--that Gemini is a happy little sign because you put it in a bookstore, for example, and it is going to go around and do what? It is going to read two pages of this and one page of that, and maybe one right over here, but it is thinking that it is reading everything. And this means that it is trying to understand as much as possible relative to the whole phenomenon called creation. So when you have this polarity point to the ninth house Pluto, you can see the obvious evolutionary intention. The intention of the Soul is to evolve beyond the particular portion—part--of the truth that it has already realized. You understand the point? 

      So the Soul is like a computer, and it has its own program and in a typically Plutonian fashion, then, the Soul will actually literally program necessary philosophical confrontations (Pluto), meaning it will attract to itself other individuals that are more philosophically or cosmologically evolved than itself. These people will have the effect of penetrating (Pluto) to the weak link in this person’s existing philosophical structure. And by identifying the weak link, well, guess what? That whole structure collapses. And this is induces the Gemini evolutionary intention. Understand the point? I mean we could go on and on, but we only have an hour and a half. So, on our Virgo list we start with Pluto, natal position, polarity point. Any questions on this aspect of it? So, we are clear on this particular point?

      Next step--number B on your Virgo list. We want to, of course, examine the nature of the south node of the moon. Now, why do we want to examine this point? The reason is that the south node of the moon will specifically correlate to the types of egocentric structures that the soul has necessarily created in order to consciously actualize the evolutionary desires or intentions, which have, in fact, preceded the current life.

      That is to say that the moon, the south node of the moon specifically, correlates to what we call the ego. Now take this very seriously because, of course, I realize in astrology land that astrologers can assign the idea or the archetype of the ego to whatever planetary symbolism.  Over the last 10-20 years it has been given to Saturn, Sun or whatever. But in reality in the astrology we do, the ego is specific to the moon. The way you can prove this through natural law is very straightforward. As an example we can understand that the ego is that which correlates with what we can psychologically call a self-image.

      Now, for example, if we make an ego connection to the Sun and we look into the nature of our solar system, of course, the Sun appears to be relatively fixed, does it not? Now, do you feel throughout your life that your own inner self-image has been fixed and constant?  When we compare this to examining the moon and its various phases, you can see the direct link to your own self-image and its evolution. Understand the point?

      So, in effect, the Soul must create a necessary ego to create a self-image of the soul itself. So the south node is the conscious component that the soul generates or creates to actualize the desires that are intrinsic to the soul itself. As a simple example, let’s still use our Ninth House Pluto as our example, remembering that the ninth house Pluto is how I want to understand myself in the cosmos, etc. Now when we put the south Node in the seventh house, what are we looking at? We Are looking at a soul who prior to the current life, over a series of recent prior life times, has created egocentric structures that have been actualized through a seventh house archetype. What does it mean?  It's going to mean that the soul has created a series of prior life egos that have been structured in such a way as to initiate a diversity of relationships, (seventh house), who looked like what? Ninth house teacher types. And by initiating this kind of relationships with teacher types, it has been collecting for itself, or attracting to itself, the kind of information that it has desired relative to the ninth house Pluto. You see the link?

      Now, to show you why cookbook astrology is B.S.--I mean wrong--compare this to a ninth house Pluto but put the south node in the first house. You are going to still have the same complex of desires, but what types of personality structure, or egocentric structure has the Soul used that is very different from the seventh house? In the first case you have dependency on an external teacher, but when you put the south node in the first house, in essence, what you now have is a soul who has the same desire structure, but now with this south node in the first house you have an individual who has learned to ask and answer its own questions. You see why cookbook astrology is so wrong?

So in either case you still have a pre-existing orientation to reality. When that ninth house Pluto, south node in the seventh person comes into life she/he will gravitate, as they have prior to the current life, in exactly that way. This is why there is going to be a thing called the north node.  You see the point?  So in this ninth house Pluto/seventh house south node, we have a polarity point in the third house, and we have a north node in the first. So in essence, the north node in this case, the conscious actualization, makes that third house polarity occur, understand my point? 
 
      What that would actually mean in this life as the person begin to emotionally mature (moon) in the current life, is that it progressively would begin to rebel against external teachers, their message and their voices. Because the intention (north node/first house) is that the person is meant to learn to ask and answer its own questions. This is going to create necessary intellectual, philosophical confrontation with external teacher types. You see? 

      In the second case, the person has been living in happy splendor, all within themselves in a form of narcissism (south node/first house).  You see my point? So now why are we seeing the north node in the seventh house? They must learn to open up and share themselves with other people and in so doing, in opening up to other people, they are going to attract (third house polarity), you see how it works. You apply this to all charts. You start just this way, A, B on your happy list. Questions? So we have got this down now?
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rita
Member

Posts: 40


« Reply #106 on: May 04, 2014, 08:21 AM »

Hi Ari and group,
I posted previously but somehow the work disappeared so now i try again;



Leo Pluto first house conjunct SN in Leo balsamic:

The natal position of Pluto is demonstrating the specific prior lifetimes and orientations that have direct bearing on the current lifetime.
First house is ruled by Mars, yang /cardinal, and a new evolutionary cycle has begun, and for that reason it is the drive the Soul uses to carry out its desires that are very instinctive, by this i mean no forethought or premeditation would occur as it is instinctual. Because is coming from the 12th house , yin energy going inwards, it could feel anger, anxiety of the separation from the womb, as it desires to break free to discover who it really is, threatening its security.
The Soul is always in a state of becoming and this is why it needs all the freedom to act upon its desires and creative self actualization.
Anger could also build up if this individual sees its freedom curtailed somehow. Yet there are conflicting desires within the Soul as Pluto seeks security, stability and to remain as is, and the Souls desire is to evolve and go beyond what it already is. This causes the Soul to periodically find itself with an identity crisis, anger and frustration could be released by projecting onto others that have nothing to do with anything.
 
Leo first house Pluto will like to be in command to shine and feel important in relation to others. It will feel very uncomfortable with competition as it fears the loss of its position by somebody else better than itself. Because it is so impulsive it will take decisions that have not been thought out and will be surprised when it does not turn the way it was expected. Facing defeat is quite tragic for this Soul and it will fight to the end.
Pluto in the first house leo /SN in Leo feels it has a special destiny to fulfill and it has to creatively actualize itself. It tends to be doubly narcissistic ( first house Leo) in its desires, and will blindly follow what it feels is important for it desires to know itself through action that will cause a reaction. It will put itself before others.
Children could be for this Soul the creative self actualization that it came to do as part of the continuation of prior life work and its evolutionary intent, in which it makes it its job to raise and dedicate itself to its children. For some Souls this would mean that the parent would try to  influence its offspring to be what it could not be, putting a lot of expectations on the offspring. For another Soul it would be to the contrary and  allow the child to be itself and incentive its independence and creative abilities, feeling proud when it saw in its offspring the potential to be creative, different and successful.
There could also be the case in which the Soul would feel threatened by the child, lets say for its beauty, intelligence making the parent insecure of itself in relation to others.
Power is important as it will make the Soul  feel full of itself. Extravagance and generosity of some sort is often a gesture for this individual as a symbol of love and the need to be loved.  Giving to the other what it likes and not necessarily what the other would have desired.
The tendency with Pluto first house in Leo is to be naturally dramatic, drama is very much part of this Soul as a form of exaggerated reactions to anything. Not realizing that others see it as a drama queen or as an exhibitionist.
 This Soul could have hypnotic sexual attractions that have nothing in common with the person, choosing partners that have the same desire for independence and non long term commitment to a relationship as itself. This way it knows that it will be free to pursue another desire and creatively actualize itself when the prior relationship has reached a non evolutionary stage.

This could show us that this Soul would be in a total re-live situation with the SN conjunct Pluto first house in Leo, and is here to re-do many accumulated unresolved issues of prior lives, being in Leo it could be through children that this individual would somehow learn to give to others what they need because it has learned to listen (7th house pp) to the needs of others. It would learn to manage its needs for freedom and commitment through the responsibility that children are in its life. Maybe this individual could find within itself the commitment responsibility and service that parenting requires, teaching the individual to love them unconditionally and freely, thus defusing any fear loss of its freedom. Yet the idea or dedication of the same commitment towards a long term relationship would be almost impossible to envisage.

The other possibility could be that this Soul has in prior lives totally actualized its prior intention  of becoming a great athlete / singer/dancer and in this life time due its prior life efforts is meant to bring forward this gift so that it can share it with the world. This by itself will inspire many youngsters who will want to become like the famous athlete / singer/dancer. It will make this individual very happy as others will love it, and look up at it as a especial  superstar all empowered.
This aspect gives the individual a sense of specialness which it desires to share with others that when shared with others will have a metamorphosis effect as the individual will live the joy, pride of others and will evolve beyond what it already was.
This in turn is called a fruition life, meaning that the evolutionary intention / desire has been pure and this life will be rewarded.

The most common is fruition and re-live, a combination of both. An example could be that this individual brings forward a gift its creative self actualization, that it is supposed to share with the world but as it becomes successful, powerful, it looses sight of reality and believes that it is the  creator of its gift or success is all due to its own merit, the god syndrome forgetting divine grace. This eventually causes its down fall so as to oblige the individual to  retreat into itself and humble itself so as to change its perspective and reality, becoming aware of how small and powerless it is in relation to the vastness of the universe


The Polarity point of SN and Pluto 7th house in Aquarius:
This  shows us that this individual is periodically oriented to have many relationships with different types of people. It is its desire to embrace diversity and fulfill its hopes and ideals through relationships, this diversity will help it understand more about itself and its needs, as well as the  others needs. These people would be people who would think like itself or people disassociated from society in some way, having different points of view of what relationships ought to be. Maybe this individual would not want to have a traditional marriage as it would perceive it as bondage imposed by society and would seek open relationships that are equally free. Slowly through evolutionary necessity it will learn that to be in a relationship is nice and does not curtail necessarily its freedom, if both sides balance out the needs of the other. It would have to listen to the other so as to understand what is important for them and learn to give to others what they need and not what the individual thinks they need. To give when it is right to give, and be ok when it decides to say no, without having the fear of not being liked anymore.
Likely the relationships could be with individuals of prior lives ( SN balsamic to Pluto applying ), as they appeared at a time that the individual most needed them to help solve situations that the individual alone could not do, and once that help was done, the relationship lost its meaning and the individual would rebel / provoke arguments at the situation and possibly project the frustration on to the partner giving it a reason to move on, towards a new relationship or towards being alone.
There would be very intense almost hypnotic sexual attractions that lasted for short periods, leaving / or being left would cause trauma to the soul and it would have a traumatic effect on the soul so as to question its beliefs or standing in life.
This individual would periodically gravitate to its SN and retreat into solitude when it felt that it had lost its identity to another. It will then deeply ponder the nature of things and Natural laws and see where it fits in relationship to its very own beliefs, and understand why it feels so disconnected to its society.
Because the 7th house is in Aquarius possibly the people that it would encounter would be different from society normalcy, each community different from the other and the individual would move in and adopt for itself for a while the beliefs, habits of these new people.
It may also be attracted to small rebel groups or secret societies, all these new experiences will help  broaden its views and understand by objectifying itself, the choices that it made along its life that caused trauma, as a necessity that its Soul had chosen to experience.Leaving behind any possibility of self blame/ blame others for the hardship/ trauma in its life. It could at times have been ostracized for its stubborn ideas / ideologies by others, forcing it to be in a group of one.
This Souls  evolutionary intention is to be in a relationship that is based on equality, in freedom and independence principles. In giving and receiving equally to one another, and stop to put itself before others, considering others as important as itself


In the consensus stages this individual would be very much about things, material things that show his place in society. It would want cars, big showy homes, flash its wealth about as a power tool. Fame, status and power would be an objective this soul would work hard to achieve. Maybe using to its advantage relationships formed to climb to the top faster.

In the individuated stages, this soul would start to break away from all those material bondages, that previously seemed to be so important that at the end of the day did not bring to this individual the satisfaction / security / love, it previously believed it would, neither did it sustain its friendships in time of rebellion against the system, family and societal values. Its friends may have seemed sincere at the time but looking back at the situation, the individual realizes that somebody did to itself the same it previously had done to others in order to advance its objectives.
The individual would attract relationships that would help it realize that the ideal relationship does not exist, that everybody has its own ideologies and that diversity is best for evolution to proceed. Disappointments as it realizes that it is only temporarily happy with another human being, and what it thought to be the perfect relationship did not turn out that way, this in turn helped the individual to look inwards and start asking more questions  ousted of itself.

In the spiritual stages, going back to the example of the parent that totally dedicates its existence towards raising a family. This individual would totally respect the individuality of each offspring, loving, supporting and being there for them no matter what. This would show us that the Leo Pluto first house has understood that through service towards others it becomes humbled and understands how small it really is, deflating its narcissistic tendencies in relation to all else.
 It would also join different groups where it would  give its help / ashrams so as to learn, through continuos effort new ways, techniques to expand its awareness and help it connect itself to the totality, and once it knows well the techniques it will move onto another and another until nirvana is reached.
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ari moshe
Most Active Member
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Posts: 1232


« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2014, 12:06 PM »

Hi Rita,

Quote
Leo Pluto first house conjunct SN in Leo balsamic:

The natal position of Pluto is demonstrating the specific prior lifetimes and orientations that have direct bearing on the current lifetime.
First house is ruled by Mars, yang /cardinal, and a new evolutionary cycle has begun, and for that reason it is the drive the Soul uses to carry out its desires that are very instinctive, by this i mean no forethought or premeditation would occur as it is instinctual. Because is coming from the 12th house , yin energy going inwards, it could feel anger, anxiety of the separation from the womb, as it desires to break free to discover who it really is, threatening its security.
 
The Soul is always in a state of becoming and this is why it needs all the freedom to act upon its desires and creative self actualization.

Anger could also build up if this individual sees its freedom curtailed somehow. Yet there are conflicting desires within the Soul as Pluto seeks security, stability and to remain as is, and the Souls desire is to evolve and go beyond what it already is. This causes the Soul to periodically find itself with an identity crisis, anger and frustration could be released by projecting onto others that have nothing to do with anything.
 
Leo first house Pluto will like to be in command to shine and feel important in relation to others. It will feel very uncomfortable with competition as it fears the loss of its position by somebody else better than itself.

With this signature, the soul can also be obsessed with competition; compulsively lead to create them when there is none.

Quote
Because it is so impulsive it will take decisions that have not been thought out and will be surprised when it does not turn the way it was expected. Facing defeat is quite tragic for this Soul and it will fight to the end.

Pluto in the first house leo /SN in Leo feels it has a special destiny to fulfill and it has to creatively actualize itself. It tends to be doubly narcissistic ( first house Leo) in its desires, and will blindly follow what it feels is important for it desires to know itself through action that will cause a reaction. It will put itself before others.

Children could be for this Soul the creative self actualization that it came to do as part of the continuation of prior life work and its evolutionary intent, in which it makes it its job to raise and dedicate itself to its children. For some Souls this would mean that the parent would try to  influence its offspring to be what it could not be, putting a lot of expectations on the offspring. For another Soul it would be to the contrary and  allow the child to be itself and incentive its independence and creative abilities, feeling proud when it saw in its offspring the potential to be creative, different and successful.


There could also be the case in which the Soul would feel threatened by the child, lets say for its beauty, intelligence making the parent insecure of itself in relation to others.

Excellent, all really well said.

Quote
Power is important as it will make the Soul  feel full of itself. Extravagance and generosity of some sort is often a gesture for this individual as a symbol of love and the need to be loved.  Giving to the other what it likes and not necessarily what the other would have desired.
The tendency with Pluto first house in Leo is to be naturally dramatic, drama is very much part of this Soul as a form of exaggerated reactions to anything. Not realizing that others see it as a drama queen or as an exhibitionist.

 This Soul could have hypnotic sexual attractions that have nothing in common with the person, choosing partners that have the same desire for independence and non long term commitment to a relationship as itself. This way it knows that it will be free to pursue another desire and creatively actualize itself when the prior relationship has reached a non evolutionary stage.

This could show us that this Soul would be in a total re-live situation with the SN conjunct Pluto first house in Leo, and is here to re-do many accumulated unresolved issues of prior lives, being in Leo it could be through children that this individual would somehow learn to give to others what they need because it has learned to listen (7th house pp) to the needs of others. It would learn to manage its needs for freedom and commitment through the responsibility that children are in its life. Maybe this individual could find within itself the commitment responsibility and service that parenting requires, teaching the individual to love them unconditionally and freely, thus defusing any fear loss of its freedom. Yet the idea or dedication of the same commitment towards a long term relationship would be almost impossible to envisage.

Everything you wrote is really right on, however with this signature there is not necessarily a defacto resistance to a long term commitment with another. While resistance is definitely a possibility, this soul can definitely be in a long term committed relationship and still be entirely narcissistically oriented and demonstrate a total disinterest in learning how to give and listen according to the needs of the other.

Quote
The other possibility could be that this Soul has in prior lives totally actualized its prior intention  of becoming a great athlete / singer/dancer and in this life time due its prior life efforts is meant to bring forward this gift so that it can share it with the world. This by itself will inspire many youngsters who will want to become like the famous athlete / singer/dancer. It will make this individual very happy as others will love it, and look up at it as a especial  superstar all empowered.

This aspect gives the individual a sense of specialness which it desires to share with others that when shared with others will have a metamorphosis effect as the individual will live the joy, pride of others and will evolve beyond what it already was.

This in turn is called a fruition life, meaning that the evolutionary intention / desire has been pure and this life will be rewarded.

One way to understand fruition is not one of "reward" but rather that the soul comes into this life with a specific purpose that fulfill - this purpose being something that has already been actualized prior to this life. There will come a point for a soul with a fruitive sn condition where they too will fulfill their evolutionary purpose relative to the sn. Fruitive sn is a specific kind of karma, and that karma, for as long as it is operative, requires the soul to do what it has come here to do.

Quote
The most common is fruition and re-live, a combination of both. An example could be that this individual brings forward a gift its creative self actualization, that it is supposed to share with the world but as it becomes successful, powerful, it looses sight of reality and believes that it is the  creator of its gift or success is all due to its own merit, the god syndrome forgetting divine grace. This eventually causes its down fall so as to oblige the individual to  retreat into itself and humble itself so as to change its perspective and reality, becoming aware of how small and powerless it is in relation to the vastness of the universe

This would be more applicable to the spiritual state and/or if that sn was in the 12th house. If the soul gets "carried away" in its own glory and sense of purpose one example of what can happen is it will find itself deeply alone (1st house).

We're not yet addressing the north node or the polarity point in this practice, however since you addressed it I will very gladly offer my feedback:

Quote
The Polarity point of SN and Pluto 7th house in Aquarius:
This  shows us that this individual is periodically oriented to have many relationships with different types of people. It is its desire to embrace diversity and fulfill its hopes and ideals through relationships, this diversity will help it understand more about itself and its needs, as well as the  others needs. These people would be people who would think like itself or people disassociated from society in some way, having different points of view of what relationships ought to be. Maybe this individual would not want to have a traditional marriage as it would perceive it as bondage imposed by society and would seek open relationships that are equally free.

That is all a possibility, however just to clarify: Marriage is an 8th house thing. 7th house just has to do with relationships.

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Slowly through evolutionary necessity it will learn that to be in a relationship is nice and does not curtail necessarily its freedom, if both sides balance out the needs of the other. It would have to listen to the other so as to understand what is important for them and learn to give to others what they need and not what the individual thinks they need. To give when it is right to give, and be ok when it decides to say no, without having the fear of not being liked anymore.

Excellent. And again, the nn and ppp in the 7th doesn't mean this soul would not have been in relationships - it means they are LEARNING how to be in balanced relationship. It's quite possible they have been in relationships their entire life. For example imagine we have the sn in Leo in the 1st with it's ruler, the Sun in Libra in the 3rd. This soul will have been in many kinds of relationships and will also be very interested in listening and learning from others. However in this case the nn would emphasize that this soul is learning to listen objectively, without the need to please others and communicate in ways that would make them liked and adored (3rd house libra relative to sn in Leo in the 1st).

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Likely the relationships could be with individuals of prior lives ( SN balsamic to Pluto applying ), as they appeared at a time that the individual most needed them to help solve situations that the individual alone could not do, and once that help was done, the relationship lost its meaning and the individual would rebel / provoke arguments at the situation and possibly project the frustration on to the partner giving it a reason to move on, towards a new relationship or towards being alone.

There would be very intense almost hypnotic sexual attractions that lasted for short periods, leaving / or being left would cause trauma to the soul and it would have a traumatic effect on the soul so as to question its beliefs or standing in life.

This individual would periodically gravitate to its SN and retreat into solitude when it felt that it had lost its identity to another.
It will then deeply ponder the nature of things and Natural laws and see where it fits in relationship to its very own beliefs, and understand why it feels so disconnected to its society.

Because the 7th house is in Aquarius possibly the people that it would encounter would be different from society normalcy, each community different from the other and the individual would move in and adopt for itself for a while the beliefs, habits of these new people.

It may also be attracted to small rebel groups or secret societies, all these new experiences will help  broaden its views and understand by objectifying itself, the choices that it made along its life that caused trauma, as a necessity that its Soul had chosen to experience.Leaving behind any possibility of self blame/ blame others for the hardship/ trauma in its life. It could at times have been ostracized for its stubborn ideas / ideologies by others, forcing it to be in a group of one.

Everything you have written regarding trauma is a possibility - however that is descriptive of resolving Aquarius 7th house karma and thus would be more relevant if the chart indicated unresolved karma relative to the north node. And definitely yes to learning to be a group of one. This soul is learning to just be who they are and to support the same for others, so they can be accepted and love for the human being that they are.

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This Souls  evolutionary intention is to be in a relationship that is based on equality, in freedom and independence principles. In giving and receiving equally to one another, and stop to put itself before others, considering others as important as itself

In the consensus stages this individual would be very much about things, material things that show his place in society. It would want cars, big showy homes, flash its wealth about as a power tool. Fame, status and power would be an objective this soul would work hard to achieve. Maybe using to its advantage relationships formed to climb to the top faster.

The connection to "things" is not necessarily true for this signature. That would be more relevant if the sn was in the 2nd house.

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In the individuated stages, this soul would start to break away from all those material bondages, that previously seemed to be so important that at the end of the day did not bring to this individual the satisfaction / security / love, it previously believed it would, neither did it sustain its friendships in time of rebellion against the system, family and societal values. Its friends may have seemed sincere at the time but looking back at the situation, the individual realizes that somebody did to itself the same it previously had done to others in order to advance its objectives.

The individual would attract relationships that would help it realize that the ideal relationship does not exist, that everybody has its own ideologies and that diversity is best for evolution to proceed.

Disappointments as it realizes that it is only temporarily happy with another human being, and what it thought to be the perfect relationship did not turn out that way, this in turn helped the individual to look inwards and start asking more questions  ousted of itself.

This is not totally descriptive of the sn in Leo in the 1st. A lot of what you wrote seems to put the sn in Aquarius in the 7th.

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In the spiritual stages, going back to the example of the parent that totally dedicates its existence towards raising a family. This individual would totally respect the individuality of each offspring, loving, supporting and being there for them no matter what. This would show us that the Leo Pluto first house has understood that through service towards others it becomes humbled and understands how small it really is, deflating its narcissistic tendencies in relation to all else.

There can definitely be strong narcisissm well into the spiritual state. There can also be strong dedication towards children and respect towards the individuality of each offspring in the consensus stages as well.

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It would also join different groups where it would  give its help / ashrams so as to learn, through continuos effort new ways, techniques to expand its awareness and help it connect itself to the totality, and once it knows well the techniques it will move onto another and another until nirvana is reached.

That is not relevant to this signature. Ashrams and techniques are more Sag/Pisces/Virgo.

You did an excellent job at describing the nature of the south node and Pluto in Leo in the 1st. Your analysis exemplifies a very clear and accurate understanding of the relationship between the soul and the ego. You also accurately expressed some of the various fruitive/relive possibilities for this signature. Your growth with this work is really palpable Rita. Thank you for your contribution.

When we go to the north node we can address that more then. One place that needs some work is your application to the sn to the various evolutionary stages. Of course please feel free to ask any questions.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2014, 07:14 PM »

Hi -

Here's an attempt at:

Pluto in Libra in the 8th House

South Node in Capricorn in the 10th House

Much Love,
Emily


With Pluto in Libra in the 8th house the underlying desires of the soul are linked to metamorphosizing limitations that are preventing the soul from experiencing balance in relationships. The soul has been exhausting desires related to relationships that are based on need and use, versus growth, mutual self-reliance and mutual independence.  The soul has been exploring uniting with symbols of power, specifically through the initiation of many different relationships, in order to take that power into itself and thus grow beyond its previous limitations. This has led to all kinds of imbalanced power dynamics within relationships, where the soul has been too dependent on another, or mistreated another to get what it felt it needed, and potentially has also experienced other people using the soul or being too dependent on it. In Libra, there is the strong possibility of having clung to a false sense of security and power within a relationship by having a partner be dependent on the soul. The soul has also experienced deep connection with others that allowed for a metamorphosis of both people. There has been the desire for deep, intimate connection, and the desire to learn about oneself through relationship. The soul has perhaps accumulated much karma with partners  – some having to do with early endings that were not mutually agreed upon, and also karma of a positive nature – loving soul connections where both people helped each other learn and grow in a non-dependent way.

The identity the soul created in the past to actualize those desires is represented by the SN in Capricorn in the 10th House. The soul has been desiring to metamorphosize limitations in how it relates to others with respect to issues of authority, control, social position, and familial or societal conditioning. The desires of penetrating to the core of another have been pursued in the person’s professional life. It has somehow been associated with the person’s role in society. The identity of the soul was perhaps wrapped up with a social role associated with (or as an authority on) relationships, or Pluto type things – the soul, sex, ritual, some taboo subject or some position of power over others. The person has perhaps become intimate with people it worked with (or worked with a partner it was already in relationship with).  The soul can be working out karma with partners from past lives through its work – in a non-intimate way.

The soul may have held power over many people in a very stratified society. And could have inherited this power from the family. The soul may have experienced shame as it lost its power due to being overly identified with its social role. There is the potential for the soul to have used its social role to manipulate others and have its needs met, misusing its power. There could have been an identity of entitlement with respect to having others meet the soul’s needs.

The soul may also have been in a position to help others empower themselves, being able to listen to others and help them in some way. They could have worked as a counselor.  The soul has been desiring to take responsibility for itself in relationship, to maintain its own inner authority even while opening up to another person, to maintain the boundaries of its personality and not lose itself or be overpowered by another person. Perhaps this was a soul worker, one with integrity and clear boundaries.

The soul could have been engaged in very conditioned, restrictive relationships, based on societal or familial expectations.  The soul could have experienced intense judgments of its relationships if they differed from the consensus. And the soul could have repressed certain relationship desires because of the fear of losing status or power. Growth may have been limited because of the fear of letting go of an existing relationship that may have been connected to the person’s public persona. This could have led to such relationships ending anyway. The soul could also have formed relationships in order to further its career/social status goals, or had others forming relationships with the soul for this purpose for themselves. Or the soul could have helped others develop themselves professionally in a healthy way.

The soul has perhaps responded to evolutionary necessity in a very mature way - realizing that power comes from within, that relationships take time and effort and also being open to change. The soul may already be rooted in its own power and be able to engage in relationships in a mutually independent way.The soul could be very skilled at engaging in relationships in a balanced way, having learned from the past. The soul could also have responded with varying degrees of repression and resistance to making needed changes in its public and personal life, holding on to the past out of fear.

Consensus State:
The soul could have been desiring to further itself in society, to merge with people more powerful or socially advanced than itself to gain more status, wealth etc. Relationships may have been based on how the partner could further the career or social position of the soul. Or the soul could potentially have been in a position of great social power, and used it for good, merging its resources with others and helping those less fortunate in some way.

Individuated State:
The soul would have been desiring to break free from the limitations of past patterns of relating, engaging in relationships that reflect values which challenge the consensus.  Using relationship and intimacy as a way to breakdown conditioning. Learning how to be true to themselves in their public lives and relationships. In the first stage there could be hiding with respect to how the person structures their relationships, but as they progress through the individuated state, they can become someone who helps the rest of humanity evolve the nature and structure of relationships – de-conditioning from patriarchal relationship constructs.

Spiritual State:
The soul has been seeking to further itself spiritually through relationships. There has been perhaps excessive dependence on others to connect the soul with source vs. seeking the connection within. The soul is desiring to metamorphosize limitations within that are preventing a connection to the divine through its work in the world & in intimate relationships. The soul's work in the world could be related to helping others metamorphosize these limitations within themselves, helping others connect to the divinity within. In a distortion, the soul could have attempted to limit or control others in relationship using various distorted spiritual teachings.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 07:34 PM by Emily » Logged
rita
Member

Posts: 40


« Reply #109 on: May 07, 2014, 12:20 AM »

Hi Ari,
Thank you for your feed back, it is getting easier!
I will try and expand on the NN during this week end.
peace and love,
rita
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fruitbat
Member

Posts: 14


« Reply #110 on: May 07, 2014, 07:44 AM »

Hi Ari,
  I'm a bit overwhelmed by responsibilities this week-I likely won't be able to post until Monday.                Love,  Mike

                                           
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Wei
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« Reply #111 on: May 07, 2014, 09:15 PM »

Hi Ari, i will post on monday.

Wei
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rita
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Posts: 40


« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2014, 10:22 AM »

Hi Ari,
Tried to go deeper on the  ppoint, thank you again for your commitment, patience, kindness and great teaching.
love and peace
rita

North Node aquarius 7th house /Pluto polarity point 7th house Aquarius.

This is where the individual will find the other, and at the same time this is where the individual has been listening and learning about the others needs. Breaking away from the subjective self to discover there is a world beyond itself.
The individual will seek relationships with people who can help it continue its liberation from the conditioning consensus, societal and family conditioning of how to be in relationships. It would unconsciously compare others to itself, until it has learned to respect others desires  as equally important as its own.
It would feel different  from societal, family values in many ways, it could be afraid of being different for fear  of being alienated by the society, family born into, or it could on the contrary have a cause, causing great rebellion/ individuation in the individual against the values of its community / family, causing it to feel very often a group of one within a crowd.
 
Family could project guilt on the individual for not conforming to their dictates causing trauma on the self, this individual could have been different from the start, and family values and societal values would have become a stumbling block in its evolutionary intent as every time it tried to show its uniqueness it would have been deflated / alienated / lost hope by the system, family, friends only making it angrier and more determined to breakaway and be itself.
 
It could enjoy to live in a different type of house than its peers, dress in a very individualistic way, through which it could apply its creative self actualization into the originality of the decoration / utility of its home, and of its own looks. Others, like itself, who live in communes and have different outlooks of what life should be like, may have something the individual does not yet know and is willing to share it.  It will feel instantly  attracted to the new innovative and like minded people, where exchanges/ confrontations would occur so as to help the individual understand where its beliefs, values, ideals stand in the world. Another possibility would be that it believes that its beliefs are right and the others are wrong and will remain fixed in its truth, making its partner, friends, feel alienated, or detaching itself all together from the other.
With Aquarius as the pp. this individual will feel attracted to people or groups that look towards the future, and may end up for a while in a type of kibbutz commune which offers new ahead of times technology, or that itself invented something out of nothing. Not really out of nothing but out of an idea which would be eco friendly and would benefit society as a whole.
With Leo first house and Aquarius as pp there could be some form of elitism or at the very least the need to be the best at what they do

There could be also a certain refusal to change once it believes it has found the thing that works for itself, and yet sooner or later for evolution to proceed the individual will be confronted by others with different ideas, that will show it that its ideas are limited / outdated, forcing the individual to retreat onto itself and wonder/ponder and change.
.
But no matter what, this individual will seek relationships with peoples of all types, regardless of the critics of others as it is its evolutionary intent is to liberate itself and discover for itself what best it resonates with and how the other reacts in relation to itself.
As the individual further learns to integrate its SN first house (self love) about the other it will no longer fear the loss of freedom if it commits to a long term relationship as it has understood that freedom can be achieved without the needs for extreme behavior, that promises are to be kept and the choices one makes have consequences on the other.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #113 on: May 08, 2014, 01:47 PM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
Pluto in Libra in the 8th House

South Node in Capricorn in the 10th House

Much Love,
Emily


With Pluto in Libra in the 8th house the underlying desires of the soul are linked to metamorphosizing limitations that are preventing the soul from experiencing balance in relationships. The soul has been exhausting desires related to relationships that are based on need and use, versus growth, mutual self-reliance and mutual independence.  The soul has been exploring uniting with symbols of power, specifically through the initiation of many different relationships, in order to take that power into itself and thus grow beyond its previous limitations. This has led to all kinds of imbalanced power dynamics within relationships, where the soul has been too dependent on another, or mistreated another to get what it felt it needed, and potentially has also experienced other people using the soul or being too dependent on it. In Libra, there is the strong possibility of having clung to a false sense of security and power within a relationship by having a partner be dependent on the soul. The soul has also experienced deep connection with others that allowed for a metamorphosis of both people. There has been the desire for deep, intimate connection, and the desire to learn about oneself through relationship. The soul has perhaps accumulated much karma with partners  – some having to do with early endings that were not mutually agreed upon, and also karma of a positive nature – loving soul connections where both people helped each other learn and grow in a non-dependent way.

The identity the soul created in the past to actualize those desires is represented by the SN in Capricorn in the 10th House. The soul has been desiring to metamorphosize limitations in how it relates to others with respect to issues of authority, control, social position, and familial or societal conditioning. The desires of penetrating to the core of another have been pursued in the person’s professional life. It has somehow been associated with the person’s role in society. The identity of the soul was perhaps wrapped up with a social role associated with (or as an authority on) relationships, or Pluto type things – the soul, sex, ritual, some taboo subject or some position of power over others. The person has perhaps become intimate with people it worked with (or worked with a partner it was already in relationship with).  The soul can be working out karma with partners from past lives through its work – in a non-intimate way.

The soul may have held power over many people in a very stratified society. And could have inherited this power from the family. The soul may have experienced shame as it lost its power due to being overly identified with its social role. There is the potential for the soul to have used its social role to manipulate others and have its needs met, misusing its power. There could have been an identity of entitlement with respect to having others meet the soul’s needs. 

The soul may also have been in a position to help others empower themselves, being able to listen to others and help them in some way. They could have worked as a counselor.  The soul has been desiring to take responsibility for itself in relationship, to maintain its own inner authority even while opening up to another person, to maintain the boundaries of its personality and not lose itself or be overpowered by another person. Perhaps this was a soul worker, one with integrity and clear boundaries.

The soul could have been engaged in very conditioned, restrictive relationships, based on societal or familial expectations.  The soul could have experienced intense judgments of its relationships if they differed from the consensus. And the soul could have repressed certain relationship desires because of the fear of losing status or power. Growth may have been limited because of the fear of letting go of an existing relationship that may have been connected to the person’s public persona. This could have led to such relationships ending anyway. The soul could also have formed relationships in order to further its career/social status goals, or had others forming relationships with the soul for this purpose for themselves. Or the soul could have helped others develop themselves professionally in a healthy way.

The soul has perhaps responded to evolutionary necessity in a very mature way - realizing that power comes from within, that relationships take time and effort and also being open to change. The soul may already be rooted in its own power and be able to engage in relationships in a mutually independent way.The soul could be very skilled at engaging in relationships in a balanced way, having learned from the past. The soul could also have responded with varying degrees of repression and resistance to making needed changes in its public and personal life, holding on to the past out of fear.

Excellent Emily, all really well said.

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Consensus State:
The soul could have been desiring to further itself in society, to merge with people more powerful or socially advanced than itself to gain more status, wealth etc. Relationships may have been based on how the partner could further the career or social position of the soul. Or the soul could potentially have been in a position of great social power, and used it for good, merging its resources with others and helping those less fortunate in some way.

Yes and this can also be the signature of a psychologist/counselor who gives to others according to the prevailing psychological orientations of the consensus stages. And a core karmic dynamic here would be "hearing" the other and determining the cause for the other person's reality according to the existing social psychological constructs all rooted in the soul's underlying desire to fit into the status quo.

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Individuated State:
The soul would have been desiring to break free from the limitations of past patterns of relating, engaging in relationships that reflect values which challenge the consensus.  Using relationship and intimacy as a way to breakdown conditioning. Learning how to be true to themselves in their public lives and relationships. In the first stage there could be hiding with respect to how the person structures their relationships, but as they progress through the individuated state, they can become someone who helps the rest of humanity evolve the nature and structure of relationships – de-conditioning from patriarchal relationship constructs.

Not necessarily hiding. Hiding as an archetype is specific to Pisces. However what I think your tuning into is the psychology of differentness and alienation rooted in a fear of being judged which then leads to the feeling of "not belonging" and thus not experiencing true intimacy with others. This weighs on the soul deeply because it's existing desires have been about maintaining the security of the past: to fit in and be accepted. In relationship there can be a pattern of putting on false personas (libra) by way of accommodating to what the soul projects other people want to see on the basis that the soul does not feel secure in just being who it is and thus totally "loosing its soul to other people"; not having any ground in itself. The soul can feel that its constantly trying to meet other people's projected needs/expectations all because of an underlying fear in rejection and judgement which roots back to this soul's evolutionary intention to determine what is "right and wrong" from within.

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Spiritual State:
The soul has been seeking to further itself spiritually through relationships. There has been perhaps excessive dependence on others to connect the soul with source vs. seeking the connection within. The soul is desiring to metamorphosize limitations within that are preventing a connection to the divine through its work in the world & in intimate relationships. The soul's work in the world could be related to helping others metamorphosize these limitations within themselves, helping others connect to the divinity within. In a distortion, the soul could have attempted to limit or control others in relationship using various distorted spiritual teachings.

Thank you for your post Emily. Your post expresses a very clear understanding of the relationship between Pluto and the sn as well as the various ways in which it can express.

One aspect that wasn't touched upon too much is the psychology of resentment and revenge. If the soul is constantly accommodating to other people on the basis of IT'S OWN need to be accepted, this could then lead to a build up of repressed emotion and resentment directed towards OTHER people on the basis that the soul pictures itself as constantly doing the "right thing" and giving of itself according to what it projects other people want of them. Thus there can be a deep distrust of other people and even the need to "get back" at others.

There can be issues around ethics: violating other people's boundaries, sexually/psychologically using other people by playing a "role" that will make other feel listened to.

This soul can also be immensely controlling and manipulative to others on the basis of needing to control other people's lives. This can be in a work context, in a family context or any relationship context where this soul is the "boss" of the other who is in a position of total dependence upon the soul. This soul would be responsible in some way for the "life and death" of the person(s) they are in relationship with. Depending on the distortions within the soul, this can lead to very intense manipulation, judgment, restriction/rules and control all rooted in this soul's core desire to maintain their own power and authority THROUGH relationship with other people.

With love,
Ari Moshe
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Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2014, 08:26 AM »

Hi Ari Moshe,

Thank you so much for your comments.

Does the "intention to determine what is 'right and wrong' from within" come from capricorn? or is that part of the process of individuation?

-Emily


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ari moshe
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« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2014, 11:13 AM »

Hi Rita,

I think you may have missed what I wrote above. We aren't on the nn and polarity point yet. That will be our next step. However since you put the time and energy into this I will gladly respond.

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Hi Ari,
Tried to go deeper on the  ppoint, thank you again for your commitment, patience, kindness and great teaching.
love and peace
rita

North Node aquarius 7th house /Pluto polarity point 7th house Aquarius.

This is where the individual will find the other, and at the same time this is where the individual has been listening and learning about the others needs. Breaking away from the subjective self to discover there is a world beyond itself.
The individual will seek relationships with people who can help it continue its liberation from the conditioning consensus, societal and family conditioning of how to be in relationships. It would unconsciously compare others to itself, until it has learned to respect others desires  as equally important as its own.

It would feel different  from societal, family values in many ways, it could be afraid of being different for fear  of being alienated by the society, family born into, or it could on the contrary have a cause, causing great rebellion/ individuation in the individual against the values of its community / family, causing it to feel very often a group of one within a crowd.

Again all of that would be relevant is the sn was in Aquarius in the 7th or if there was karmic stuff brought into this life time with the nn. This soul's core karmic orientation is Leo in the 1st. That has nothing to do with rebelling againt anything.
 
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Family could project guilt on the individual for not conforming to their dictates causing trauma on the self, this individual could have been different from the start, and family values and societal values would have become a stumbling block in its evolutionary intent as every time it tried to show its uniqueness it would have been deflated / alienated / lost hope by the system, family, friends only making it angrier and more determined to breakaway and be itself.

Same as above, and also family is not an implicit correlation with this signature
 
Quote
It could enjoy to live in a different type of house than its peers, dress in a very individualistic way, through which it could apply its creative self actualization into the originality of the decoration / utility of its home, and of its own looks. Others, like itself, who live in communes and have different outlooks of what life should be like, may have something the individual does not yet know and is willing to share it.  It will feel instantly  attracted to the new innovative and like minded people, where exchanges/ confrontations would occur so as to help the individual understand where its beliefs, values, ideals stand in the world. Another possibility would be that it believes that its beliefs are right and the others are wrong and will remain fixed in its truth, making its partner, friends, feel alienated, or detaching itself all together from the other.

Beliefs and remaining fixed in its truth is more relevant to Sag. if This soul has Sag in the 1st house, then their challenge would be opening up to the point of views of others.

Quote
With Aquarius as the pp. this individual will feel attracted to people or groups that look towards the future, and may end up for a while in a type of kibbutz commune which offers new ahead of times technology, or that itself invented something out of nothing. Not really out of nothing but out of an idea which would be eco friendly and would benefit society as a whole.
With Leo first house and Aquarius as pp there could be some form of elitism or at the very least the need to be the best at what they do

Yes this is possible. The core of the polarity point in Aquarius is the evolutionary intention, necessity to learn detachment.

Quote
There could be also a certain refusal to change once it believes it has found the thing that works for itself, and yet sooner or later for evolution to proceed the individual will be confronted by others with different ideas, that will show it that its ideas are limited / outdated, forcing the individual to retreat onto itself and wonder/ponder and change.

Again "ideas" would be more relevant to the Sag/Gemini axis. In this case the soul would be facing the evolutionary need over and over again to learn to be an equal. This soul may find itself in relationships with others where at some point it feels like it is not being seen or appreciated (Leo). This can create a cycle of competition and manipulation which then results in creating further disconnection between self and others. This will happen until the soul realizes that they are reacting (1st house) to other people through the filter of their own egocentric self orientation. Thus the soul will gradually learn to listen objectively and not personalize anything.

Quote
But no matter what, this individual will seek relationships with peoples of all types, regardless of the critics of others as it is its evolutionary intent is to liberate itself and discover for itself what best it resonates with and how the other reacts in relation to itself.
As the individual further learns to integrate its SN first house (self love) about the other it will no longer fear the loss of freedom if it commits to a long term relationship as it has understood that freedom can be achieved without the needs for extreme behavior, that promises are to be kept and the choices one makes have consequences on the other.
The core of what you wrote is accurate. Two corrections: 2nd house = self love. And also long term commitment isn't necessarily defacto a point of resistance for this signature. It could be, but not necessarily so.

Thank you for your efforts Rita. We can work more on the nn and polarity point in whatever way you want to soon when we move on to the next step in our practice.
With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 05:44 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2014, 11:17 AM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
Does the "intention to determine what is 'right and wrong' from within" come from capricorn? or is that part of the process of individuation?

Capricorn, and then since we're looking at the individuated stage, "looking within to determine right and wrong" in this context would mean retreating from social constructs and judgments of right and wrong and deciding for oneself.
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rita
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Posts: 40


« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2014, 01:26 PM »

Hi Ari,
Thank you for your time and effort again.Sorry but somehow i do not seem to get the NN and i seem to weave them together. When we will continue with the NN i will try and understand it better by continuing to practice
Love and peace
rita
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Wei
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« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2014, 02:31 AM »

Hi Ari, so sorry i need more time to finish this assignment, i will post as soon as i can, don't wait for me. Had hard time to focus last week...

Thanks for your patience.
Wei
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fruitbat
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« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2014, 07:43 AM »

Pluto in Virgo House 8
South Node in Virgo House 8
  The underlying desires of this soul as indicated by the natal placement of Pluto in the eighth house in the sign of Virgo are to undergo transformations of  previous limitations (in effect a sort of death/rebirth process) involving themes of purity, worthiness, humilty,  practicality, service, of learning mental and moral discrimination, of learning to be practical use to the community or world at large, of learning a skill or craft to offer , and of self refinement on all levels including health. In this particular case with Pluto being located in its "natural house", there  is an added intensity around these past evolutionary intents. There seems to be a particularly purgatorial feeling when blending this sign and house placement together.  There have likely been experiences of power and powerlessness of varying levels of intensity and the above Virgoan qualities have likely been attempted to be manifested through other people's values or through symbols of power beyond the self-in effect through sources viewed as being outside of the self with an attempt to merge the self with those qualities in order to evolve or transform. There is likely some level of psychological  guilt or self criticism at work with this Pluto placement in order to spur growth beyond the prevous limitations.


The types of human identities created in the past as indicated by the South Node in the eighth house in Virgo  in order to pursue those soul level desires are individuals whose lives involve those same themes of humilty, practicality, worthiness, discrimination, service, practicality, self criticism, gulit, craftmandship, and self refinement and of experiences of power or loss of power and of transforming past previous limitations or intense evolutionary development. Some very specific examples among the multivalent possibilities for individual identities manifested with this South Node placement include:
A person who works very hard in order to heal or stave off a sense of guilt.
-A person who seeks power through some form of occult servitude.
-A person who seeks to be pure through celibacy.
-A person who is a sexual slave or servant.
-A person who seeks some form of salvation (underlying this is really a sense of power) through humility or service.
-A person who accepts a menial life of servitude due to not feeling worthy of more.
- A person who works out incessantly or obsesses over their diet in order to have control over the body.
-A person who becomes powerful due to perfecting a craft or skill.
-A person with an eating disorder.
-A person who greatly fears death and worries about death often.
-A person born into a low caste in a socially stratified society who cleans up after others.
- A person who worries about other peoples resources more than his/her own.
- A hospice volunteer.
- A person who feels guilty for other people's issues.
Consensus A soul in this state would tend to accept consensus ideals around self improvement and would focus on socially accepted forms of work, service and health issues. Honing a craft or skill which is in some way useful to the society at large, acceptance of being a member of "the lower rung" in a class conscious society, etc.
Individuated A soul in the individuated state would be more and more focused on self improvement or on honing a craft not in relation to any societal convention or need. Here perhaps a soul would be focused on self improvement through learning the craft of being an astrologer, practicing the physical art of yoga, sexual practices, etc.
Spiritual Here the soul would begin to focus on true humility, spiritual service, and of purifying all separating desires (sexual and otherwise) from the self.


As Pluto and the South Node are located in the same sign and house there seems to be a "heavy curriculum" that has been chosen by this soul around Virgoan and eighth house themes.The soul has chosen to respond to evolutionary necesssity by incarnating with the South Node and Pluto being placed in the same sign and house-in effect the identities created in the past (South Node) have placed an extra emphasis on the underlying soul level desires (Pluto) by being in an identical house and sign. This indicates that the soul is continually reworking and reincarnating with these desires or intents in order to relive them until they are brought to fruition.(As I typed the last sentense, I realized how essentially Virgoan this process sounds.)

The strengths that this soul may have developed include knowledge of its own limitations, true humility , strong dedication to the process of refinement, and the willing to undergo necessary changes in order have something to offer his/her community or the world at large as well as the chance to intensely evolve in a particularly Virgoan way.


The limitations are that the soul may become so focused on one particular evolutionary desire that it is unable to "see the forest for the trees" (again so Virgo)and that the possiblity for resistance is very strong.
 
Note-I had some technical difficulties this morning as I wrote this and ended up having to redo this exercise as my computer failed to save my previous efforts. I was very frustrated as I am overwhelmed with busyness/responsiblity today. This led to an epiphanous moment in which I was wondering if our souls ever feel this way as they are reliving or refining a praticular theme. The Universe is such a great teacher.  Wink
                                                             In gratitude and love,
                                                                          Mike   
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