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ari moshe
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« Reply #45 on: Mar 21, 2014, 06:21 PM »

Hi Wei, thank you for your post,

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Pluto in 9th house
9th house pluto souls are true detectives for the meaning of life. The fundamental desire is to find purpose/interpretation of the world, to have direct experience of connection with universe/the whole consciousness/GOD, they have been developing intuition for many lives, searching deeply through religion/philosophy/belief in a metaphysical way. They may even possess sort of mystic skills which could been used to heal or manipulate other souls(could be natrual healer/prophet/guru, or false spritural leader who gain power for themselves).

9th house is a fire/yang archetype, the soul feel they have special destiny, they need freedom to explore different belief systems, they tend to find the truth out of selves, get empowered by spritural knowledge/direct experiences. They can be attracted to others with the knowledge they feel lack of, draw to teacher type relationship, Or they will be the teacher. Either way their belief is fixed. When they confront other people's belief which seems as true as theirs, it's gonna create crisis, they may be trapped in existential void by refusing to evolve, also they can be open minded, learn each truth is relatively true.

The natural law is the most important archtype of 9th house, essentially these souls have great knowledge to teach other people how to live their own truth. They also have a lot of  karma or trauma experienses with natrual law. They could have been lived aligning with natrual law, but get misinterpreted by others; In other case they could have distorted natrual law, such as a false spiritual leader who mind washing/manipulating other souls to benifit themselves.

Excellent all well said. I'm not sure myself if brain washing as a specific archetype can be correlated to the 9th house. It does definitely correspond to the 11th house/Aquarius. Perhaps Rad or anyone else can comment on that. Though I recognize that you were touching upon the idea of convincing or converting others to whatever the soul wants to convince or convert others to relative to their own personal motives. Within this is of course the psychology of lying like the "sales person" who can convince and sell you anything.

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9th house rules right brain, these souls are used to intuitive thinking, they have been lived in different cultures in many lives.

Not necessarily - especially in consensus stages of evolution. One possibility is that the soul has been immersed in the same kind of culture over and over again relative to their desire to hold on to that way of looking at things: Security linked with the known. This would at some point reach an evolutionary limitation at which point would create the necessity to become exposed, somehow or another, to other ways.

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In this incarnation, they can feel intense alienation, as well as limit while communicating with others who are used to logical thinking. They can be depended on those who share same belief, then experiense betrayal/disillusionment, or simply think that no one understands them, then have delusion that every mind is separated. They may be angery towards those whose belief is different or doesn't have belief at all. When they are exhausted by looking out for truth/power(seperated desire), they'll ask why deeply, start to find spritural power within, realise that everyone's truth is relatively true, there is limitation for each soul to see the whole truth when we are rooted in ego, and all "seperated consciousness" are part of the Whole, each holds part of truth evolving together.

PPP is in 3rd house,the soul can be attracted to a language/way of expressing they resonate with, learn and create their own way to express their idea, learn to translate their mind into a language that others understand. Writing/painting/playing instrument/singing can be a great way to share their knowledge(even truth direct from GOD). Or simplely sharing their minds with people who resonate, can help them release from restless mind. Living their own truth,making fun of absurdity in life, also can be beautiful example for other souls.

All of your examples express accurate possibilities of how this signature can manifest. You also touched upon the core essence of the archetype in a way that is applicable to many possibilities.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #46 on: Mar 21, 2014, 06:32 PM »

Hi Mike, thank you for your post.

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hi Ari and everyone,    
 
    Pluto in the 8th This placement of Pluto is very intense as the 8th house itself corresponds with some deeply Plutonian themes-death, transformation, power, etc. Traditional Astrology considers this to be the house that Pluto is the strongest in because of its correspondance with the sign of Scorpio, which is ruled by Pluto. Pluto in the 8th brings to my mind the image of a crucible- for the evolutionary pressure here seems to be particularly  intense. With Pluto in this house, the soul has desired to merge with sources of power outside of itself in order to bring about transformation of its own limitations. The soul will have had experiences of both power and powerlessness, which will in effect teach the soul about its  own limitations. It could be said even that Pluto in the 8th is an archetype which represents  the very need for evolution or growth itself. Here, the soul will resist the limitations that it comes up against as it struggles to grow past its limits. This resistance will probably bring about a series of crises or confrontations. One danger with this placement is that the soul will manipulate others for its own purposes. The reason for this being that the soul is so intent on transforming its limitations that the ends in this case may appear to justify the means and the soul may attempt to "use" others as" tools" to bring about its own evolution-consciously or unconsciously.

Really well said.

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In the Consensus Stage -Some likely scenarios are that the soul will simply attempt to merge with another being totally on the level of a relationship or on the level of basic physical resources -alternately experiencing the power and powerlessness of total  dependency on another or of another person being dependent upon itself.  Perhaps  the soul will attach itself to the symbol of money itself or wealth or status or career or sex . Other possibilities are that the soul will identify itself with a consensus political idealogy or a consensus state organized religion.

In the Individuated Stage- A few possibilities here are that the soul will attempt to merge with an idea which exist beyond itself but is a bit challenging to the status quo: nihilism, psychology, astrology, the counter culture etc. All sources of power which appear to be beyond the self which the soul can attach itself to, attempt to merge with and transform itself beyond its previous limits.

Finally In the Spiritual Stage The true source of power will gradually and ultimately be  realized by the soul  as a truer and purer understanding of god/goddess/divinity itself. The soul will then realize that its only true power is in humbly letting go of separating desires in favor of returning back to its true source.

The 2nd House Polarity Point symbolizes that in order to grow one must become self reliant and  learn to own the inner stability, resources, sense of values and healthy sense of groundedness in the face of one's own limitations. In effect , the soul must  gradually learn to become one of its own most valuable resources rather than constantly giving power away to sources outside of itself.

Heading toward the polarity point in the 2nd house will help the soul to realize that its greatest power lies in its own self reliance and in knowing its own limitations in a very  healthily grounded way. Also in learning to live by its own natural values the soul will learn stability in the face of crisis/confrontation.  Herein lies true power.      

 I've enjoyed reading everyone's sharings here. Thank you for this opportunity to learn.
                                           
All well said Mike. The description of Pluto in the 8th via the various evolutionary stages express accurate possibilities and you also touched upon the core essence of this archetype that can be applied to various possibilities.
Your second post:

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As I was walking my dog on this beautiful early spring morning another layer of Pluto in the 8th hit me and this is that the soul has been desiring to experience true intimacy with another being, energetic archetype or the divine itself. Until the soul reaches toward the 2nd house polarity point of stability in one's own resources and values plus true self reliance, true intimacy is not possible as  all forms of intimacy will entail varying degrees of vampirism.

Also note that often an 8th house Pluto soul will attract to itself relationships with other souls with whom soul-self reliance can be developed while in relationship - if the desire for that is strong enough. Thus two souls who together can develop deeper soul intimacy and allow for the relationship to shift from one that is about re-living karmic patterns to one that is about soul evolution. The foundation for that would be for each soul to practice knowing that all is within. If this understanding is held while in relationship, then great growth is possible without the need for manipulation.
With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2014, 06:55 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #47 on: Mar 21, 2014, 06:58 PM »

Hello everyone! Thank you to Frost, Rita, Wei and Mike for your posts. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to work with you in this way.

Just want to let everyone know that at this time I am experimenting with not doing too much computer work on the weekends. So as a general rhythm, on Saturday's I wont be posting or reading. Sundays more likely.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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Wei
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« Reply #48 on: Mar 21, 2014, 08:05 PM »

Hi Ari,thank you for replying my post,i have some questions about what you said below
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I'm not sure myself if brain washing as a specific archetype can be correlated to the 9th house. It does definitely correspond to the 11th house/Aquarius. Perhaps Rad or anyone else can comment on that. Though I recognize that you were touching upon the idea of convincing or converting others to whatever the soul wants to convince or convert others to relative to their own personal motives. Within this is of course the psychology of lying like the "sales person" who can convince and sell you anything.

Yes when i used the word"brain washing" i meant people who always want to convince others, and this may lead to another stage, like build a social system based on what they believe, and try to control what other people believe, it's capricorn archtype? Also i am very confused about what's different between value system(taurus archtype) and belief system(sagittarius)...?
Quote
Not necessarily - especially in consensus stages of evolution. One possibility is that the soul has been immersed in the same kind of culture over and over again relative to their desire to hold on to that way of looking at things: Security linked with the known. This would at some point reach an evolutionary limitation at which point would create the necessity to become exposed, somehow or another, to other ways.

Imigrant can be in all evolutionary stage right? I wonder if someone fit in better in another culture, can they still be in consensus stages? Because their basic desire is still to fit in, be successful in the social system.

Thanks Ari and everyone for this thread, i learn so much by reading through it. Enjoy weekends!
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Simon
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Posts: 18


« Reply #49 on: Mar 22, 2014, 03:03 PM »

Hi Ari

Will be posting my work tomorrow.

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frost7967
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« Reply #50 on: Mar 22, 2014, 09:04 PM »

Pluto in 5th House:
This (5th house) corresponds to the fixed fire Leo archetype; the fire of inspiration is shaped through determination into a creative product. This person has spent recent lives focusing on creative self-actualization.  They may come into this life with creative talents, the confidence to express these publically, and thus an innate magnetism/charisma. However, they may feel that their creativity comes exclusively from Self -  rather than being influenced by (partially borne of) inputs from others or coming as a gift from cosmic energies (muses, the divine, etc.); likewise, they may develop a God complex, seem very arrogant, and expect constant acknowledgment of their god-like creative abilities from others.  Some may indeed have been idolized in past lives for their creative abilities and may unconsciously expect such admiration to automatically continue in this life; their default orientation is to see themselves as the central, light and life-giving sun, around which all others revolve and on whom all others depend for a radiant life. Consciously or unconsciously, they may use various tactics to emotionally manipulate others into giving them the craved admiration/approval/applause (for example, “the drama queen”, the “diva”, the person who’s generous in order to be applauded for his giving nature); if others ignore this behavior, the person may go to greater and greater extremes to “get noticed”.

The extreme emphasis on self ultimately puts a limit on how creative one can be. The well-springs of creativity stagnate and dry up if they are not fed from without, if one accepts only inputs from the self (denigrating, ignoring, chasing away inputs form other sources). In addition, creations that are overly self-focused may fail to be appreciated by society as they (being so self-oriented) may seem lacking in relevance to others. When creativity seems blocked, “burnt out”, lost or unappreciated, the person is forced to re-consider his grandiose “specialness” (How can he be uniquely brilliant, if his creativity has dropped to that of a mere “ordinary” person?).  Direct feedback from other people (in response to his bids for admiration/notice) also challenge his grandiosity and force him to look beyond self to others.

The 11th house PPP encourages development of objectivity (counterpoint to the subjectivity of the 5th house’s self-focus) and the awareness/appreciation for social groups/others (versus extreme focus on self).  With such a shift in focus, creativity (previously limited by self-focus) truly blossoms.  The creations are now tied to society’s needs, not just to the limited visions of the self – and thus can become broadly used and appreciated, even seen as works of genius.  In addition, no longer imprisoned by his own god-complex, the person is now open to input form others; he can participate in create collaboration where many talented, skillful individuals pool their abilities/energies to produce a creation greater than that which any single person could produce.  Eventually, a degree of humility may emerge: The individual may see that, rather than being an isolated creator, he uses, re-arranges, is fed by, what many others have produced; his creativity is interconnected with the creativity of many others, and he is indebted to them for what he has actualized.  Ultimately, rather than proudly seeing himself as The Creator, he may see his creative ideas as coming from sources beyond the self and even beyond his society: He is absorbing ideas/knowing from the field of creative possibilities, breathing in (like prana) from the intelligence of Universal Mind; if he’s sufficiently receptive, if he allows himself to assimilate what’s been given, and if he’s sufficiently prepared to understand what he’s breathed in, then he may feel gifted with the opportunity to offer others a meaningful creation.

Thanks for reading..... Roll Eyes
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ginogropp1
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« Reply #51 on: Mar 23, 2014, 02:57 AM »

First of all I would like to apologize  for not posting anything for a while . I have been participating by reading all the posts but i am going through so many personal changes i have been unable to post.  This is a rudimentary but important question that comes up for me. It is about the important subject of polarity s . How do the polarities work ?  they are so fundamental to EA .  For instance the polarities of Pluto and of the Nodes. They are in one sense opposites . but in an other the opposites ends of the same pole ?  Although in the beginning they may work in antagonistic ways . they have to ideally eventually work together in unison. it seems eventually their needs to take place an alchemical union of some sort an integration . I am still unclear about this . because we all know that ex stream opposites are on a deep level the same . I studied Indian astrology for many years so may I quote an Indian Vedic astrologer here ." the north node and south node are the path of the conscious self and since the self is constantly evolving towards greater consciousness, the NN and SN mark different ends of this path , they operate differently , even though they are ultimately the same, just as two ends of a stick are essentially the same . SN is a very introverted force, and involves completions . Those things that SN is influencing are being completed and resolved in this life time. the NN on the other hand , propels us into new things, so it appears to be doing the opposite of the SN. In fact , it propels us into the new in order to create balance where there is imbalance, for a long as there is imbalance there can be no completion or growth. Though operating differently, the NN and the SN are actually working together." Now how much this correlates with EA I would like to know. I would imagine the same is true for Pluto and its polarity point , and all polarities in the chart. And of course to understand polarities properly we must also bring in the idea of TRINITY.  Because ultimate it is the trinity that brings culmination.   I am at the very beginning of struggling with theses fundamental EA ideas or laws. To truly understand the basic dynamics of how this system works is of utmost importance to me . Many more questions spring from the ones i have just aired such as understanding the Trinity's of a planet and its NN and its SN points and how they work as a trinity , But enough for now . I would be very interested on peoples ideas about the above with Love and Light Gino
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Simon
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« Reply #52 on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:14 AM »

Pluto:
The symbol Pluto though EA linked with the archetype of desire. The nature of desire is linked with 2 dynamics. Compulsion and Repulsion. To separate from source and to return to source.
Pluto also is linked with the unconscious emotional security patters of the soul. This is part of the experience in which we we find security in the past. The natural reaction of the soul is to then move towards the natal position. In there lies the empowerment due to feeling secure in the known. The polarity point reflecting the evolutionary intent.

'' As per Ari teaching - Natal Pluto
The natal position of Pluto represents the kinds of desires the soul has had in the past that has lead to this life. Inherent in Pluto, by house sign and aspects, is a long and deep process of generating and exhausting desires. Cycle after cycle...''


11th House.

The archetype of the 11th house / Uranus / Aquarius functions in these ways.

Following the natural evolution of the zodiac- the process of Capricorn The crystallization of energy / conscious form.
And as being a function of the earth triad.

Uranus / Aquarius / 11th is to be the action of detaching from the molded structure. This leads to liberation. The breaking free from the Capricorn process. This is to allow for evolution to continue. To not get stuck withing systems that eventually will be out dated.

The process of Aquarius / 11th / Uranus
One the more personal level the symbols represent the reflection of groups communities and individual unconscious. The polarity of Aquarius is Leo. The intention is for the creative self-expression to be reflected through the Aquarius polarity(groups) allow for the identification of the self to be defined by the groups and associations it is then part of.

The Aquarius 11th Uranus archetype also correlate to the extended family dynamic, this being connection to the 4th house / Cancer archetype within the zodiac.
The extended family reflecting the groups in which the soul is apart of. Dreams aspirations are all apart of the archetype as Uranus 11th Aquarius reflects the blueprints of the future. Trauma is also reflected in this archetype.

Pluto 11th house or Aquarius.

Souls that are coming into this incarnation have previously being living lives in which 3 main dynamics have been taking place.

Relative to the Capricorn archetype - being under conditions in which suppression are main dynamics, slave ect. This then leads the soul to a point in which the nature of liberation from suppression is taking place. The archetype of finding one's own individuality is now starting to take place.
A great reference to this would be a soul moving out of 3rd stage consensus into first stage individuated. The process of moving through the stage can cause trauma dynamics relative to the judgments of Capricorn consensus state.
The other experience is that the soul has been living lives in which it has been leading group dynamics - and causing the souls to be suppressing their individuality. This can also lead souls into attracting to it karma in which it now has to face rejection dynamics from the group.

Another dynamic within the Pluto 11th house or Aquarius archetype is to find there own sense of individuality within the group and to not let the soul become apart of the groups identity. This will be enforced by the soul in some way. There will be something different within the souls conscious that will create this expression being different.


The soul can find security with the group identity. Still staying in the realms of Capricorn. This will lead the soul into not being able to reflect its true identity thus causing distortion. Suppressed emotions. Again the Capricorn function.

Another process is where the soul finds its sense of identity being different from the groups identity and then still sacrificing itself.
This process is to make the soul aware that the act of liberation. To be able to then through the act of liberation find the sense of who I am, by experiencing different groups. To stay within a group when the dynamics change. In other words not hold on.

Another way in which the dynamics can play out is when a soul chooses to have complete objectivity and find itself being unable to integrate within group dynamics. This leads to a series of dynamics in which the soul then is unwilling to sacrifice its own sense of self. This can also lead the soul into not being able to understand more of itself because it cannot have the reflection of the group and what it represents. Never having the opportunity to creatively express itself.


So for souls that are coming into this incarnations group dynamics will be the lessons in which it draws upon itself. Liberation from pre-existing patterns of behavior. To establish a new a fresh sense of creative self-expression through the Polarity Point LEO.


The Polarity point of Pluto
In this life time is too consciously integrate the creative self in to the group dynamics. To experience and express a unique sense of self. The Soul through this archetype will learn to through this dynamic to find its own sense of creative expression. To not allow for outdated patterns of expression to be defined as its own sense of identity. To honor its unique individuality in all situations so it can gradually find group and community dynamics that allow for the soul to be able to integrate. This as explained above is a important aspect because as through the reflections of the group the soul can be find it's own expression.

Thank you again for this opportunity to learn.
« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2014, 02:20 AM by Simon » Logged
Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #53 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:50 AM »

Hi,

I'd also chosen Pluto in the 11th. Smiley

Thank you for this opportunity to practice!

-Emily

Pluto in the 11th house/Aquarius

With Pluto in the 11th house the soul has been desiring to decondition from all that has come before – from conditioning acquired in prior lives and in the current life from family and society. The soul is desiring to detach and view itself objectively.  The desire is to let go of all that isn’t the essential nature of the soul – to be a unique, individual expression of source in a world of other individuals.  The soul has joined with others who match its own vibration in groups of like-minded people or been a group of one as it further individuates and the vibration of the group no longer matches its own.  It has been rebelling against groups that it feels different from, or from groups that reject the soul as different.  The bottom line desire is to gain deep self-knowledge in a detached manner.  The soul has been attracted to groups of like-minded individuals, may have been isolated from groups/tribes at some point, and may have caused trauma for other groups of people.  Because of the desire to decondition and individuate (in a consensus, individuated, or spiritual sense) the soul feels very different from others.

The soul’s greatest resistance to change is its fear of being different and possibly ostracised (or the fear of losing individuality)? The soul is desiring to break free from whatever has conditioned itself in the past – it has been allowing itself to be under the control of beliefs, ideas, values that are not its own.  There is fear of letting go of the perceived security it finds in being accepted by a group or blindly following the lifestyles of others.  The dual desires are; the desire to peel back the layers of conditioning which are preventing the soul from experiencing and expressing itself as it is, and the desire to perpetuate the past.  Pluto in the 11th has gone and continues to go through cycles of throwing off identities that do not reflect its true nature.  When the pressure within the soul is strong enough, it will break away from limiting conditions of the past.  There is the potential that it will go very far – exiling itself from society, not wanting to be a part of it at all – feeling its individuality is totally threatened by others.  Depending on the level of resistance to objectively viewing itself and letting go of conditioning, the soul may experience traumatic events – being isolated from society, losing the support of friends or extended family, losing the means to support its current lifestyle(?), or experience a deep inner loss of meaning in the life it has been living to this point(more Pisces?).  The intention is to force self examination and to identify with oneself on a deeper level, beyond Capricorn reality.   In some cases of resistance and fear the soul will cling to some outmoded idea.

Polarity Point 5th House
The soul as a unique expression of oneness can shine through with Pluto in the 11th by embracing the 5th house polarity point.  By fully embracing its uniqueness and its gifts and the uniqueness and gifts of others, it can then be helpful to society.  Though there may have been a lot of isolation in the past and the soul may gravitate towards separating from society - the intention is to be seen.  Because these souls are deconditioning/deconditioned they can be innovative and revolutionary.  The soul will identify itself with all of humanity and offer something through itself that is relevant to the needs of others, not just its own self.  By seeing who it is when it isn’t playing a conditioned/socially assigned role, the soul frees itself to open to more of reality - and it can create a new role for itself in society that reflects its true nature and allows its gifts to come through.  Consistent effort is required to root the brilliance of the 11th house within society.  The soul still needs to work with time and space (earth).

Consensus State:
This is confusing to me because Aquarius symbolizes breaking away from the consensus and in the consensus state the desire is to be fully part of the consensus – it is taking on more and more conditioning in order to get ahead.  So I suppose here the fear of being different would be extreme.  The soul would view being different as a threat to its social acceptance and ability to get ahead.  A consensus state soul will adopt the conditioning of its family and culture.

Individuated State:  
This is very much the process of an 11th house soul.  As the soul progressively exhausted the desire to get ahead in the consensus state, it learned how the system worked, worked it and now is manifesting different desires.  The soul is desiring to know itself as separate from what society tells it it is.  An 11th house individuated soul will be exploring the ‘counter-culture’ and alternative lifestyles.  They will be forming bonds with others who feel alienated from society, will explore completely rejecting integrating into society in any way (out of fear of losing their individuality) and then come to bring the gifts they have uncovered in themselves to humanity, maintaining their individuality.

Spiritual State:  
A spiritual state soul with Pluto in the 11th could be deconditioning from ways of spiritualizing that are not of an individual nature.  There will be an attraction to spiritually oriented communities and also the need to find one's own path.  As the soul progressively desires to directly connect with and return to Source, it will be letting go of all external identifications.  The soul will begin to vibrate more consciously in tune with source.
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2014, 06:15 PM by Emily » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #54 on: Mar 23, 2014, 01:10 PM »

Hi Wei,

Quote
Hi Ari,thank you for replying my post,i have some questions about what you said below

Quote
I'm not sure myself if brain washing as a specific archetype can be correlated to the 9th house. It does definitely correspond to the 11th house/Aquarius. Perhaps Rad or anyone else can comment on that. Though I recognize that you were touching upon the idea of convincing or converting others to whatever the soul wants to convince or convert others to relative to their own personal motives. Within this is of course the psychology of lying like the "sales person" who can convince and sell you anything.

Yes when i used the word"brain washing" i meant people who always want to convince others, and this may lead to another stage, like build a social system based on what they believe, and try to control what other people believe, it's capricorn archtype? Also i am very confused about what's different between value system(taurus archtype) and belief system(sagittarius)...?

That's right, if a social system is built then Capricorn/10th house/Saturn would have to be involved in some way. Though "control" can happen through the 9th house alone. Control/manipulation through lying for example.

Regarding value systems: values relate to the archetype of "needs". To survive and to sustain the life that is relevant for each soul, all souls have basic needs. Depending on the unique evolutionary requirements and karmic conditions of each soul, each soul will develop a value system that reflects their core needs. It's necessary to know oneself, to inwardly acknowledge one's own needs and have some level of self esteem in order to meet one's needs. The Taurus archetype is the polarity to Scorpio: the soul. So Taurus is all about the indwelling of the soul through the physical experience: sustaining the life of the incarnation.

Belief system specifically correlates to one's cosmology and understanding of the whole; how the soul understands itself in relationship to the totality of existence.


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Not necessarily - especially in consensus stages of evolution. One possibility is that the soul has been immersed in the same kind of culture over and over again relative to their desire to hold on to that way of looking at things: Security linked with the known. This would at some point reach an evolutionary limitation at which point would create the necessity to become exposed, somehow or another, to other ways.

Imigrant can be in all evolutionary stage right? I wonder if someone fit in better in another culture, can they still be in consensus stages? Because their basic desire is still to fit in, be successful in the social system.

Yes to all. As always we'd have to look at the inner soul reality behind the circumstances to understand what the evolutionary purpose/meaning is behind it.

Thanks Ari and everyone for this thread, i learn so much by reading through it. Enjoy weekends!

With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #55 on: Mar 23, 2014, 01:27 PM »

Hi Frost,

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Pluto in 5th House:
This (5th house) corresponds to the fixed fire Leo archetype; the fire of inspiration is shaped through determination into a creative product. This person has spent recent lives focusing on creative self-actualization.  They may come into this life with creative talents, the confidence to express these publically, and thus an innate magnetism/charisma. However, they may feel that their creativity comes exclusively from Self -  rather than being influenced by (partially borne of) inputs from others or coming as a gift from cosmic energies (muses, the divine, etc.); likewise, they may develop a God complex, seem very arrogant, and expect constant acknowledgment of their god-like creative abilities from others. 

Some may indeed have been idolized in past lives for their creative abilities and may unconsciously expect such admiration to automatically continue in this life; their default orientation is to see themselves as the central, light and life-giving sun, around which all others revolve and on whom all others depend for a radiant life. Consciously or unconsciously, they may use various tactics to emotionally manipulate others into giving them the craved admiration/approval/applause (for example, “the drama queen”, the “diva”, the person who’s generous in order to be applauded for his giving nature); if others ignore this behavior, the person may go to greater and greater extremes to “get noticed”.

Excellent. All true possible expressions of this archetype. I want to offer the other extreme two: A soul playing some sort of victim which then draws attention to itself. What this soul may be good at doing is "playing" in order to get whatever they are needing from the external.

Another expression of this would be a soul who might be shy to a core. Afraid full expressing and sharing their inner creative essence.

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The extreme emphasis on self ultimately puts a limit on how creative one can be. The well-springs of creativity stagnate and dry up if they are not fed from without, if one accepts only inputs from the self (denigrating, ignoring, chasing away inputs form other sources). In addition, creations that are overly self-focused may fail to be appreciated by society as they (being so self-oriented) may seem lacking in relevance to others. When creativity seems blocked, “burnt out”, lost or unappreciated, the person is forced to re-consider his grandiose “specialness” (How can he be uniquely brilliant, if his creativity has dropped to that of a mere “ordinary” person?).  Direct feedback from other people (in response to his bids for admiration/notice) also challenge his grandiosity and force him to look beyond self to others.

Really well expressed

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The 11th house PPP encourages development of objectivity (counterpoint to the subjectivity of the 5th house’s self-focus) and the awareness/appreciation for social groups/others (versus extreme focus on self).  With such a shift in focus, creativity (previously limited by self-focus) truly blossoms.  The creations are now tied to society’s needs, not just to the limited visions of the self – and thus can become broadly used and appreciated, even seen as works of genius.  In addition, no longer imprisoned by his own god-complex, the person is now open to input form others; he can participate in create collaboration where many talented, skillful individuals pool their abilities/energies to produce a creation greater than that which any single person could produce.  Eventually, a degree of humility may emerge: The individual may see that, rather than being an isolated creator, he uses, re-arranges, is fed by, what many others have produced; his creativity is interconnected with the creativity of many others, and he is indebted to them for what he has actualized.  Ultimately, rather than proudly seeing himself as The Creator, he may see his creative ideas as coming from sources beyond the self and even beyond his society: He is absorbing ideas/knowing from the field of creative possibilities, breathing in (like prana) from the intelligence of Universal Mind; if he’s sufficiently receptive, if he allows himself to assimilate what’s been given, and if he’s sufficiently prepared to understand what he’s breathed in, then he may feel gifted with the opportunity to offer others a meaningful creation.

Everything you have written expresses accurate possibilities for this signature. You also touched upon the essence of Pluto in the 5th which can be applied to many circumstances.

One perspective not addressed: the polarity point in the 11th can also relate to the soul choosing to express themselves even if they stand out; even if they are different. The lesson of releasing the soul potential even if it means "being a group of one", even if that means they may not be understood or appreciated. This can be very threatening to the security needs of the soul to be liked and adored - which is why the 5th house Pluto soul may not feel empowered to express their creative potential in the first place. A deep permeating shyness is also common with Pluto in the 5th house.

With love
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #56 on: Mar 23, 2014, 02:22 PM »

Hi Gino,

I have been appreciating your questions and genuine participation very much. Thank you so much for all that you are contributing to the group.

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First of all I would like to apologize  for not posting anything for a while . I have been participating by reading all the posts but i am going through so many personal changes i have been unable to post. This is a rudimentary but important question that comes up for me. It is about the important subject of polarity s . How do the polarities work ?  they are so fundamental to EA .  For instance the polarities of Pluto and of the Nodes. They are in one sense opposites . but in an other the opposites ends of the same pole ?

Although in the beginning they may work in antagonistic ways . they have to ideally eventually work together in unison. it seems eventually their needs to take place an alchemical union of some sort an integration . I am still unclear about this . because we all know that ex stream opposites are on a deep level the same . I studied Indian astrology for many years so may I quote an Indian Vedic astrologer here ." the north node and south node are the path of the conscious self and since the self is constantly evolving towards greater consciousness, the NN and SN mark different ends of this path , they operate differently , even though they are ultimately the same, just as two ends of a stick are essentially the same . SN is a very introverted force, and involves completions . Those things that SN is influencing are being completed and resolved in this life time. the NN on the other hand , propels us into new things, so it appears to be doing the opposite of the SN. In fact , it propels us into the new in order to create balance where there is imbalance, for a long as there is imbalance there can be no completion or growth. Though operating differently, the NN and the SN are actually working together."

Now how much this correlates with EA I would like to know.

Soon we will review the EA teachings on the lunar nodes. At that point, once I post the material, we can address any remaining questions that you might have.

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I would imagine the same is true for Pluto and its polarity point , and all polarities in the chart. And of course to understand polarities properly we must also bring in the idea of TRINITY.  Because ultimate it is the trinity that brings culmination.   I am at the very beginning of struggling with theses fundamental EA ideas or laws. To truly understand the basic dynamics of how this system works is of utmost importance to me . Many more questions spring from the ones i have just aired such as understanding the Trinity's of a planet and its NN and its SN points and how they work as a trinity , But enough for now . I would be very interested on peoples ideas about the above with Love and Light Gino

I'm going to hold the conversation on trinity and the lunar nodes for a bit later when we begin address the lunar nodes.

From the point of view of God, there is no such thing as polarity. This is no "other" as everything in a part of the oneness. The archetype of polarity is specific to the nature of karma: cause and effect / action and reaction, which is itself born from the dual desires within the soul: the desire to separate or return to Source. The dual desires within the soul do not express two desires for two equally objective realities. One desire, the desire to return to source is the desire for WHAT IS TRUE while the desire to separate from source is the desire for what is not true. Meaning separation from God CANNOT actually happen - it's impossible to successfully "separate" from God. The dual desires within the soul express the desire for what IS eternal and the desire for what IS NOT eternal.

Thus the very desire nature within all of us sets the stage to seek that which is "outside" of ourselves which of course provides temporary fulfillment until we realize there is no longer any need or use for what we previously wanted. Then we want something else.

This creates a perpetual psychology of "wanted and unwanted" with periods of rest from all of that (such as deep deep sleep when there is no longer any efforting or resisting or as Rad often speaks about the state of breathlessness where the inhale and exhale shallow and stop completely). As long as the soul is on this evolutionary journey, there is the perception of duality which can always be traced back to unresolved desire.

So to me, that's a starting point for understanding the nature of polarity in general. Where it comes from from the point of view of the soul.

It's natural to feel that "once I ____ then Ill be content." We can fill in the blank with "figure out the answer to this issue." or "find my life partner" etc. And of course it's never true in an ultimate sense.

If I desire to have a lot of possessions (2nd house point of desire) then letting go of what I have or merging my resources with another person may be a deep threat to my deepest security needs (8th house polarity point of desire). The resistance to the polarity point is born from my attachments to survival. Thus there is born the psychology of wanted and unwanted. So if I am attached to my own need for security and self reliance I might look at 8th house dynamics (marriage for example) as something unwanted, I may even detest it. Integrating the 8th house polarity point (which symbolizes the principle that all things change) triggers evolution as it forces me to find self reliance in the soul, not in the external dependency on "things".

Whenever anyone begins to look inside, towards the eternal for security the dualities of the world start to all away. This is because the perception of duality itself in the first place was born from unresolved desire.

Pluto polarity point triggers resolution for all karmic dynamics in the chart. This is because all karma is born from desire in the first place. Understanding that idea to me is a sort of EA bottom line.

To offer another kind of response to your question that may offer some perspective: consider planetary oppositions. When two planets are opposite one another it expresses a very dynamic tension within the soul wherein the soul has not yet learned how to integrate perceived opposites. Within the soul's consciousness is a split between two extremes, and thus choices and experiential realities that will reflect that. Integrating any opposition is about refining one's consciousness to the point that only integration is possible as opposed to fluctuating extremes.

Let me know if this addressed your question Gino and of course feel free to ask more about any of this.
With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2014, 09:23 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Katherine
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« Reply #57 on: Mar 23, 2014, 09:28 PM »

Hi Ari,
I am working on my piece and will be posting on Monday by noon PT.

God bless,
Katherine
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Wei
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« Reply #58 on: Mar 24, 2014, 03:40 AM »

Thanks Ari, now i have more clear idea about 9th house archtype!
Also i love what you said in reply to Frost about pluto in 5th, give me a new idea about this placement.It's great to learn more everyday.
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Katherine
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« Reply #59 on: Mar 24, 2014, 12:43 PM »

Pluto 1st house

Pluto symbolically represents the Soul itself and its process over many lifetimes as it seeks to return to Source by exhausting any and all separating desires experienced on the physical plane.  The prior life evolutionary desires and karmic history set up the present life personality structure, essentially picking up where it left off.  The referencing of what has come before (the past) leads to the compulsions to maintain a sense of security through self-consistency. This creates an internal conflict within the Soul as it oscillates (via free will) between resisting or cooperating with its growth and evolution.
The desires emanating from a Soul become conscious within an individual through the interface of Mars. The continuous state of becoming is experienced subjectively through Mars/ Aries/ ASC/ 1st  with a need for absolute freedom to act upon those core desires.  The crisis of birth  (and the original anxiety of separation) is reflected in the natural inconjunct from the 8th to the 1st creating the subconscious fear of entrapment. In all people this intrinsic stress to consciousness generates a psychology of anxiety around becoming overly committed or entrapped within circumstances that limit the essential need to become.
While Pluto in any of the cardinal houses signifies a new Soul cycle, Pluto in the 1st house really punctuates the absolute importance of freedom and independence that are required in order to actualize a special destiny waiting to be discovered.  This is a Soul that has operated instinctually from impulses that are felt intensely on a gut level, as opposed to conceptually formulated cues. First-hand experience is the operative vehicle of awareness.  The need to fulfill any desire or experience deemed necessary for the Soul’s development is paramount. The immediacy of potential experience and the need to act on it at any time keeps this signature aloof.  Allegiance is to the self is of prime importance, which points to the reputation for narcissism or self-centeredness.  The characteristics associated with this signature archetypically are: intense, magnetic, defiant, courageous, a penetrating gaze and physical strength.
Yet, Pluto’s need for consistency, perspective, and the why of any desire or action sets up a cyclical implosion of identity.  Eventually, stagnation, limitation, and restriction are eliminated by initiating new experiences and action relevant to where the individual is in process.  A frustration or anger can be projected upon those seen as a barrier to the individual’s freedom.  The Soul will reach a limitation in its growth of existing in a vacuum of personal reference and isolation from others.  
The Pluto Polarity Point (PPP) of the 7th house is where the Soul can receive perspective to the questions of “who am I” “what am I” and will attract others who can assist them in their evolutionary requirements.  There will be an instinctive attraction or repulsion toward certain individuals. This attraction may physical or sexual in nature, although not necessarily acted upon.  The dynamic of repulsion can arise when those they feel deeply attracted to threaten on some level the existing nature of their reality.  Total rejection, wholehearted pursuit, or a combination of attraction and repulsion are all possibilities.
Within relationship the theme of dominance emerges where one can dominate, be dominated, or operate on the basis of equality.  Equality is the lesson here of respect for another’s needs, and unique evolutionary requirements.  This balancing of their own needs and the open recognition and acknowledgment of the legitimate needs of others hones the ability to listen, and ultimately give that the other needs without losing themselves in the process.
Pluto in the 1st can become a courageous example to others to become aware of the nature of their desires and express their individual nature and how to determine which of those desires should and should not be actualized.


God Bless,
Katherine

P.S. I intend to post more regarding the shifting dynamics through the evolutionary states.
« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2014, 01:12 PM by Katherine » Logged
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