Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: New EA beginners practice thread  (Read 9667 times)
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #120 on: May 12, 2014, 04:43 PM »

Hi Mike,

Quote
Pluto in Virgo House 8
South Node in Virgo House 8

  The underlying desires of this soul as indicated by the natal placement of Pluto in the eighth house in the sign of Virgo are to undergo transformations of  previous limitations (in effect a sort of death/rebirth process) involving themes of purity, worthiness, humilty,  practicality, service, of learning mental and moral discrimination, of learning to be practical use to the community or world at large, of learning a skill or craft to offer , and of self refinement on all levels including health. In this particular case with Pluto being located in its "natural house", there  is an added intensity around these past evolutionary intents. There seems to be a particularly purgatorial feeling when blending this sign and house placement together.  There have likely been experiences of power and powerlessness of varying levels of intensity and the above Virgoan qualities have likely been attempted to be manifested through other people's values or through symbols of power beyond the self-in effect through sources viewed as being outside of the self with an attempt to merge the self with those qualities in order to evolve or transform. There is likely some level of psychological  guilt or self criticism at work with this Pluto placement in order to spur growth beyond the prevous limitations.


The types of human identities created in the past as indicated by the South Node in the eighth house in Virgo  in order to pursue those soul level desires are individuals whose lives involve those same themes of humilty, practicality, worthiness, discrimination, service, practicality, self criticism, gulit, craftmandship, and self refinement and of experiences of power or loss of power and of transforming past previous limitations or intense evolutionary development. Some very specific examples among the multivalent possibilities for individual identities manifested with this South Node placement include:
A person who works very hard in order to heal or stave off a sense of guilt.
-A person who seeks power through some form of occult servitude.
-A person who seeks to be pure through celibacy.
-A person who is a sexual slave or servant.
-A person who seeks some form of salvation (underlying this is really a sense of power) through humility or service.
-A person who accepts a menial life of servitude due to not feeling worthy of more.
- A person who works out incessantly or obsesses over their diet in order to have control over the body.
-A person who becomes powerful due to perfecting a craft or skill.
-A person with an eating disorder.
-A person who greatly fears death and worries about death often.
-A person born into a low caste in a socially stratified society who cleans up after others.
- A person who worries about other peoples resources more than his/her own.
- A hospice volunteer.
- A person who feels guilty for other people's issues.

Excellent Mike! All really well said.

Quote
Consensus A soul in this state would tend to accept consensus ideals around self improvement and would focus on socially accepted forms of work, service and health issues. Honing a craft or skill which is in some way useful to the society at large, acceptance of being a member of "the lower rung" in a class conscious society, etc.

Yes this is possible, and of course, and especially in the latter stages of the consensus state this could be a soul that has amassed wealth and power through control.

Quote
Individuated A soul in the individuated state would be more and more focused on self improvement or on honing a craft not in relation to any societal convention or need. Here perhaps a soul would be focused on self improvement through learning the craft of being an astrologer, practicing the physical art of yoga, sexual practices, etc.

Spiritual Here the soul would begin to focus on true humility, spiritual service, and of purifying all separating desires (sexual and otherwise) from the self.

Committed relationship as a spiritual path may be a part of that as well.
Quote
As Pluto and the South Node are located in the same sign and house there seems to be a "heavy curriculum" that has been chosen by this soul around Virgoan and eighth house themes.The soul has chosen to respond to evolutionary necesssity by incarnating with the South Node and Pluto being placed in the same sign and house-in effect the identities created in the past (South Node) have placed an extra emphasis on the underlying soul level desires (Pluto) by being in an identical house and sign. This indicates that the soul is continually reworking and reincarnating with these desires or intents in order to relive them until they are brought to fruition.(As I typed the last sentense, I realized how essentially Virgoan this process sounds.)

Haha, yes it might feel that way to that soul. And that can create a total stasis/overwhelm within the soul which can lead to doing nothing at all.

Quote
The strengths that this soul may have developed include knowledge of its own limitations, true humility , strong dedication to the process of refinement, and the willing to undergo necessary changes in order have something to offer his/her community or the world at large as well as the chance to intensely evolve in a particularly Virgoan way.

Yes, and they really may come into this life with a gift: Pluto on the sn. This might have anything to do with tools for empowerment/psychological skills, the ability to work with sexuality in a way that promotes healing/empowerment (sex worker in the individuates states for example).

Quote
The limitations are that the soul may become so focused on one particular evolutionary desire that it is unable to "see the forest for the trees" (again so Virgo)and that the possiblity for resistance is very strong.

Note-I had some technical difficulties this morning as I wrote this and ended up having to redo this exercise as my computer failed to save my previous efforts. I was very frustrated as I am overwhelmed with busyness/responsiblity today. This led to an epiphanous moment in which I was wondering if our souls ever feel this way as they are reliving or refining a praticular theme. The Universe is such a great teacher.  Wink
                                                             In gratitude and love,
                                                                          Mike    

Thank you for your post Mike. Everything you wrote is very accurate and expresses and clear understanding of how Pluto and the south node operate together. You also exemplified the various karmic dynamics that Pluto conj the SN can symbolize.
With love,
Ari Moshe
Logged
fruitbat
Member

Posts: 14


« Reply #121 on: May 12, 2014, 07:50 PM »

 Thank you Ari for reading and responding to my post and thank you to all those who posted as well.
                                                          Mike
Logged
Katherine
Active Member
*
Posts: 69


« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2014, 06:56 AM »

Hi Ari,
I am still working on my assignment.

God bless,
Katherine
Logged
Wei
Active Member
*
Posts: 66


« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2014, 03:04 AM »

Hi Ari, i am trying to understand pluto/sn correlation as well as how to explain conflict symbol, i feel i don't fully understand them, i want to add evolutionary states after your replying, here is my try. Thanks as always!

Pluto in 2nd house Libra SN in 4th house capricorn

Evolution for Pluto 2nd house Libra soul is generally slow and resisting, the inconjunct symbol between venus's inner/outer side can be experienced as conflict/alternate situation of self reliance/being fixed and dependent on others, how they relate to self is project/being projected in relationship with others. There is desire to withdraw and internalize relationship, relate to oneself in a balanced way, they have been learning how to be independent in equal relationship, develope their heart chakra, provide their talent/resources with others in partnership. They have been exhausting desires for external resources. Femininity is highly valued, when distorted, can be used to manipulate others or materialize female.

In fruition condition, the soul is aware of self value, can hear/compare others needs/different values, being comfortable in all kinds of relationships without losing oneself. They'll attract others who recognize/support their inner value, to gain more resources/fortune through interacting with others. They learnt that resources sustain life/security is simply within, can support others to find their inner resources as well. Bands formed by artists could be a good example.

In reliving/karmic condition, soul could have been living totally alone in many lives on survival level, withdrawn, avoid relationship at all, shut down to survive relationship wounds; they may relate only on physical/sexual level, relate to others for socializing reasons, for fertility and posterity; they may repeat unequal relationship pattern which involves finacial problem. The soul can also have many lives in poverty, thus has deep fear of losing possessions, being greedy/over emphasis on external material (only form relationship with rich people; manipulate other's resources, pure resources exchange even with one's body); they may be lazy, only do enough, never fully develop their potential until life is under threaten.

No matter in what case, souls with this pluto placement have internal fixed identity, needs to move slowly, they work hard to figure a way to relax in the comfortble fancy eternity, they need to figure out why it's necessary to accept different value, to change. When they resist to evolve, deep loss is likely to happen, when their cope mechanism doesn't work anymore, they'll have to change for survival, once they make effort to embrace change, they will experience transforming evolution.


To actualize soul's desire on conscious level in previous lives, the pluto desires have been manifested/exhausted within family/society, their self-image have been shaped by different culture/country/man-made rules, they have been learning how to integrate their emotional needs within society, provide their value/resources for others. The soul created many identities to develop internal sense of security as well as find their position in society. Family issue, karmic relationship with parents, gender switch has been highlighted in pastlife experiences. Their emotional needs may be neglected/distorted/suppressed in family, leads to displaced emotional/projected needs in adult relationship, they can be numbed in relationship, shut down emotion to survive. Their ego may never fully developed for childhood wounds. They may have incarnated in different society/family where their gender (or inner gender) has been judged/conditioned, depression of current gender, distorted anima/animus, they can also be leaders demanding gender equality, develop new gender role/social structure. Pressure of integrating ego with the role they play in family/career. They may carry deep guilt caused nagative self-image, feel worthless, being over identified with material possessions/social position. They are learning to take responsibility for their emotion, nurture the inner child in the way they need. In relationship they project displaced emotional needs on others, need to be taken care of as well as feeling responsible for others emotionally and financially. Their relationship is heavily conditioned/restricted by how the family/society defines relationship. There could be emotional control within family cause crisis in relationship. They may also have unbalanced relationships in career, need other's approval, to be accepted/recognized by society standards/authority, compare/compete with other's resources. Also the soul could have lives in solitude to maintain their ego structure, to relate to self in a peaceful way. Suicide correlates with this arthetype as well. All these external resources are prevent them from knowing their inner value.

Wei

Love
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 03:13 AM by Wei » Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2014, 01:43 PM »

Hi Wei,

Quote
Hi Ari, i am trying to understand pluto/sn correlation as well as how to explain conflict symbol, i feel i don't fully understand them, i want to add evolutionary states after your replying, here is my try. Thanks as always!

Pluto in 2nd house Libra SN in 4th house capricorn

Evolution for Pluto 2nd house Libra soul is generally slow and resisting, the inconjunct symbol between venus's inner/outer side can be experienced as conflict/alternate situation of self reliance/being fixed and dependent on others, how they relate to self is project/being projected in relationship with others. There is desire to withdraw and internalize relationship, relate to oneself in a balanced way, they have been learning how to be independent in equal relationship, develope their heart chakra, provide their talent/resources with others in partnership. They have been exhausting desires for external resources. Femininity is highly valued, when distorted, can be used to manipulate others or materialize female.

With a 2nd house Libra Pluto alone, femininity itself would not be highly valued. Rather, beauty, being attractive to others would be. Attractiveness links to the biological impulse within the 2nd house to procreate. Self esteem here may be linked to being attractive.

In fruition condition, the soul is aware of self value, can hear/compare others needs/different values, being comfortable in all kinds of relationships without losing oneself. They'll attract others who recognize/support their inner value, to gain more resources/fortune through interacting with others. They learnt that resources sustain life/security is simply within, can support others to find their inner resources as well. Bands formed by artists could be a good example.

The idea of "fruitive or relive" applies to the sn, which then of course reflects back to Pluto. What you wrote above sounds more resonant with the sn in Libra in the 2nd.
However Pluto can and often does symbolize where the soul comes into this life already empowered: where they are able to look within and find power within; the capacity to cooperate with evolutionary necessity.

Quote
In reliving/karmic condition, soul could have been living totally alone in many lives on survival level, withdrawn, avoid relationship at all, shut down to survive relationship wounds; they may relate only on physical/sexual level, relate to others for socializing reasons, for fertility and posterity; they may repeat unequal relationship pattern which involves finacial problem. The soul can also have many lives in poverty, thus has deep fear of losing possessions, being greedy/over emphasis on external material (only form relationship with rich people; manipulate other's resources, pure resources exchange even with one's body); they may be lazy, only do enough, never fully develop their potential until life is under threaten.

No matter in what case, souls with this pluto placement have internal fixed identity, needs to move slowly, they work hard to figure a way to relax in the comfortble fancy eternity, they need to figure out why it's necessary to accept different value, to change. When they resist to evolve, deep loss is likely to happen, when their cope mechanism doesn't work anymore, they'll have to change for survival, once they make effort to embrace change, they will experience transforming evolution.

Everything you wrote is generally true for a Pluto in the 2nd in Libra. However when speaking of the identity, we look towards the sn which describes how the soul has related to the evolutionary intent in the past. The sn describes what kind of life was actually created. Without the human identity there is no context for the soul's evolutionary journey (through the human incarnation at least).

Quote
To actualize soul's desire on conscious level in previous lives, the pluto desires have been manifested/exhausted within family/society, their self-image have been shaped by different culture/country/man-made rules, they have been learning how to integrate their emotional needs within society, provide their value/resources for others. The soul created many identities to develop internal sense of security as well as find their position in society. Family issue, karmic relationship with parents, gender switch has been highlighted in pastlife experiences. Their emotional needs may be neglected/distorted/suppressed in family, leads to displaced emotional/projected needs in adult relationship, they can be numbed in relationship, shut down emotion to survive. Their ego may never fully developed for childhood wounds. They may have incarnated in different society/family where their gender (or inner gender) has been judged/conditioned, depression of current gender, distorted anima/animus, they can also be leaders demanding gender equality, develop new gender role/social structure. Pressure of integrating ego with the role they play in family/career. They may carry deep guilt caused nagative self-image, feel worthless, being over identified with material possessions/social position. They are learning to take responsibility for their emotion, nurture the inner child in the way they need. In relationship they project displaced emotional needs on others, need to be taken care of as well as feeling responsible for others emotionally and financially. Their relationship is heavily conditioned/restricted by how the family/society defines relationship. There could be emotional control within family cause crisis in relationship. They may also have unbalanced relationships in career, need other's approval, to be accepted/recognized by society standards/authority, compare/compete with other's resources.

Also the soul could have lives in solitude to maintain their ego structure, to relate to self in a peaceful way. Suicide correlates with this arthetype as well. All these external resources are prevent them from knowing their inner value.

What you described is accurate for the sn in the 4th in Cap, however there wasn't much of a connection to Pluto: the WHY behind that south node. Also the correlation with suicide is not implicit within this signature alone.

To connect the sn to Pluto, think about the kinds of compulsions that Pluto in the 2nd house would have with that kind of identity structure. Would the soul be likely to embrace change easily? Is it possible this soul may get stuck/overly used to (2nd house) a family life where their role is essentially fixed? The soul might be in a domestic situation where they aren't feeling great intimacy and connection, but feel secure because they are "safe" where they are as everything they "need" is available so long as the existing status quo remains the same. They may be very agreeable and conform to whoever they are supposed to be, or on the other end expect to behave a certain way as well. Underlying it all is the core compulsion, separating desire within this soul to self preserve; to survive. The compulsion to survive would manifest through the Cap 4th house identity: all the things you described above.

Thank you for your efforts Wei! Of course feel free to write more or ask more about any of this.
With love,
Ari Moshe
Logged
Wei
Active Member
*
Posts: 66


« Reply #125 on: May 21, 2014, 05:03 AM »

Hi Ari, thanks so much for your replying, i wrote this assignment with confusing....thanks for clarifying it, i understand them but still feel very hard to write/explain it by myself!

When i use words"fruitive" i meant what have the soul already learnt, enpowered within, "relive":what they haven't exhausted, project the needs on others/look outward for power. I don't really understand what is the difference? Because of SN conjunct Pluto in my chart, i always feel restricted to fully understand different relationship between Pluto/SN.

With pluto in 2nd house libra, the ego will be very fixed and slow to embrace change, they may create same relationship pattern (which reflects their cold/restricted domestic situation) over and over in adult relationships even without much connection, i wonder are they gonna feel ready/safe to change before individuated state? In consensus state, they may still learn to survive, they will just accept family/society rules, because it's relatively comfortable and safe, provides basic needs for them? They will risk more to rebel against those rules when they entered individuated state, because they will start to do their own thinking about self-value, and feel more comfortable to live by their own rules(even still very fixed)?
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #126 on: May 21, 2014, 06:39 PM »

Hi Wei, just wanted to let you know I'll be able to respond to your post either tomorrow afternoon my time, or Friday morning.
With love,
am
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #127 on: May 22, 2014, 06:43 PM »

Hi Wei,

Quote
When i use words"fruitive" i meant what have the soul already learnt, enpowered within, "relive":what they haven't exhausted, project the needs on others/look outward for power. I don't really understand what is the difference? Because of SN conjunct Pluto in my chart, i always feel restricted to fully understand different relationship between Pluto/SN.

I understand. It's not inherently "wrong" to use those words, however as I tune into it, they do not resonate with the core of what Pluto is about.

This is a really good thing to differentiate. It's the very nature of the soul that when one layer is worked through, there is still more to go. Pluto by house sign and aspect holds the inherent implication for most souls that the soul HAS already been evolving; that the soul has made choices in the past in alignment with evolutionary necessity. The exception to this would be souls that have NOT been evolving; souls that have been on a downward evolutionary path of compulsive separating desires and are stuck in that.

However for most souls, over a series of many lives there has been a slow and progressive evolutionary development: generating new desires, exhausting old desires ....

Pluto is a statement of evolutionary intent. It's been going on for a while and will likely continue for some time as well. The south node is the identity that has carried the evolutionary intent. It's the human experience through which the soul evolves. the idea of "relive" and "fruitive" are only played out through the sn because it's the human identity that plays everything out.

Quote
With pluto in 2nd house libra, the ego will be very fixed and slow to embrace change, they may create same relationship pattern (which reflects their cold/restricted domestic situation) over and over in adult relationships even without much connection,

What you wrote is true except Pluto in libra 2nd house doesn't describe the ego.

Quote
i wonder are they gonna feel ready/safe to change before individuated state? In consensus state, they may still learn to survive, they will just accept family/society rules, because it's relatively comfortable and safe, provides basic needs for them? They will risk more to rebel against those rules when they entered individuated state, because they will start to do their own thinking about self-value, and feel more comfortable to live by their own rules(even still very fixed)?

Within the consensus state change can certainly happen. The soul can learn self reliance, security from within, to give of itself in more intimate ways, learn how to set healthy boundaries without it being about the need to do the "right thing" to please others. This can happen by way of the soul being a parent and learning to relate to their family on emotional terms, not just in terms of "rules" and "structure" or compulsively needing "doing the right thing to please others". This will then lead the soul to breaking the shell of self preservation and self protection (2nd house Pluto) by giving more of themselves emotionally.

With love,
Ari Moshe
Logged
Wei
Active Member
*
Posts: 66


« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2014, 07:53 PM »

Quote
What you wrote is true except Pluto in libra 2nd house doesn't describe the ego.

oh, i will try to be more accurate, i meant identity which created by pluto in libra 2nd house soul will be very fixed and slow to embrace change in their life...

Thanks Ari, i read through your replying several time, it's very clear, i will try to practice more to really tune into it.
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2014, 05:35 PM »

Hi everyone! We will move on to our next step, the Pluto polarity point, next week.
With love,
Ari Moshe
Logged
Katherine
Active Member
*
Posts: 69


« Reply #130 on: Jun 02, 2014, 04:12 AM »

Pluto & SN in the 1st H
So, generally, what could be said of encountering Pluto in the same house as the SN is that the Soul has constructed in the past egoic structures that similarly personify it’s deepest desires i.e. there is at least a resonance between the conscious and unconscious desires, a resonance of how they are acted out.  While the person may not necessarily have a clear awareness that their conscious desires are congruent with their Soul’s desires, there may be an obtuse but strong sense of knowing what is most important to them.  (This would have been a mechanism for evolutionary acceleration.) Ok, so assuming the doubling up of Pluto and the SN of the moon is a fast track for growth in areas of desire awareness, gassing it so to speak, placement in the 1st house could indicate an amplified instinctual process, a quickening of getting down to and attaining those bottom-line desires.  This intended growth could have been resisted, embraced, or a combination thereof.  So, getting into the Why, Pluto and the SN in the 1st could have been a necessary program to remediate dependencies on various externalities, or abdication of power. Pluto may have been functioning for a long time from the perspective of tapping into its instinctual desires however, being convinced of another's agenda (Sag) becoming overly concerned with material preservation (Taurus) at the cost of one’s innate priorities may have invoked a need to focus on the actual acting out of the subjective desires. Or, to put it another way: to do the right thing and for the right reason, with respect to personal integrity.  Which, merrily, gets into the variables of the signature: lunar nodal axis station, either ‘body’ aspecting the Ascendant and/ or, forming a conjunction to each other.  Any combination of these scenarios would magnify the force of the 1st house signature.  In the instance of Pluto conjunct the SN in the 1st, a resistance to acting out evolutionary requirements would prompt re-live scenarios where there are lessons requiring absolute resolution of being  true to oneself. The outer form changes but, the test is always is this what I want? Is this my desire? It’s like innate applied kinesiology: muscle testing 101, basically. On the fruition side, there is a need to disseminate the resources accumulated over time through personal experience. There could be layers of karma around having taken things by force, interrupting, causing crisis to, or otherwise superseding the needs of others. This necessary check might mean various ways of leading by example, e.g. being transparent about how one can assert one’s power and take hold of the things they need.
If neither are in aspect i.e. the Pluto polarity point and north node are in effect, this would place more of an emphasis on stretching beyond the known and into further practice of individuating, through the lens of Libra. The proverbial oxygen mask being secured over one’s own face and then being able to turn to other passengers.

Living on the road my friend
Was gonna keep you free and clean
Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath’s as hard as kerosene

“Poncho and Lefty”
Townes Van Zandt

Consensus: At this stage, the person may insist that they are a power of one- not seeing all the ways the prevailing culture, politics, economics, etc. mold their thinking. Choices might be really focused on the external and material methods of autonomy: ‘live free or die’ style, possibly extremist/ survivalist. 2nd: Libertarian, “user pays” tonality, 3rd: Fascists, me and mine…now yours is mine.
Individuated: extremely iconoclastic, punk DIY ethos, experimenting with the most radical anti-establishment ways and lifestyles, 2nd: philosophy of solipsism, total distancing from the collective, 3rd: maybe not hands on but possibly tolerant of media coverage via interviews, etc, on how and why they maintain their life independent from the status quo, emerging consciousness that they can provide a new template of how to live fully.
Spirituated: perhaps a minimalist/zen style life where there is a conscious awareness of what they consume, why do they need that, what are their truest desires, a tempering of excess to directly access their passion for Source 2nd: detour through the ego to access source, messages like 'I have an instinctual awareness ("hits") of what you/others need to actualize your spirituality, and you need personal access to me to know how to do this, only if I get what I want from you, i.e. direct access in exact ways I want and when I want.' 3rd: the internal fire burns clean and strong, total focus on directly experiencing God/des, all that is unneeded is burned away. This heart flame is arresting/ undeniable to those who witness it. The lighthouse home.

« Last Edit: Jun 02, 2014, 10:22 AM by Katherine » Logged
Katherine
Active Member
*
Posts: 69


« Reply #131 on: Jun 02, 2014, 10:58 AM »

Hi Ari,
I thought of a 'fun option' or nuance for your facilitation of this thread and your growth in teaching, as I recall your saying how much teaching serves your own knowledge and evolutionary growth. And that is: when you see holes in what we post, maybe framing a question back for us to think about and arrive at for ourselves? Not implying tons of back and forth--that could go on forever. And I don't mean cryptic riddles, that's frustrating. But...food for thought? If and when it could be helpful.
This is totally an idea and not to be taken as criticism of something that is 'missing' here. To be clear, I love your feedback style, it is as generous as it is fitting. Because sometimes one just needs to be told 'it's like this.' Done.
I just know that you really sit with the particulars and it has very much served your understanding of EA. There's something. What is your process when you are stuck? When you can't get a sense of a dynamic, and also when you can't see how something might play out?

Thank you Ari! This thread is a boon.
God bless,
Katherine
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #132 on: Jun 02, 2014, 02:42 PM »

Hi Katherine,

Quote
Pluto & SN in the 1st H
So, generally, what could be said of encountering Pluto in the same house as the SN is that the Soul has constructed in the past egoic structures that similarly personify it’s deepest desires i.e. there is at least a resonance between the conscious and unconscious desires, a resonance of how they are acted out. 

While the person may not necessarily have a clear awareness that their conscious desires are congruent with their Soul’s desires, there may be an obtuse but strong sense of knowing what is most important to them.  (This would have been a mechanism for evolutionary acceleration.) Ok, so assuming the doubling up of Pluto and the SN of the moon is a fast track for growth in areas of desire awareness, gassing it so to speak, placement in the 1st house could indicate an amplified instinctual process, a quickening of getting down to and attaining those bottom-line desires.  This intended growth could have been resisted, embraced, or a combination thereof. 

So, getting into the Why, Pluto and the SN in the 1st could have been a necessary program to remediate dependencies on various externalities, or abdication of power. Pluto may have been functioning for a long time from the perspective of tapping into its instinctual desires however, being convinced of another's agenda (Sag) becoming overly concerned with material preservation (Taurus) at the cost of one’s innate priorities may have invoked a need to focus on the actual acting out of the subjective desires. Or, to put it another way: to do the right thing and for the right reason, with respect to personal integrity.  Which, merrily, gets into the variables of the signature: lunar nodal axis station, either ‘body’ aspecting the Ascendant and/ or, forming a conjunction to each other.  Any combination of these scenarios would magnify the force of the 1st house signature. 

In the instance of Pluto conjunct the SN in the 1st, a resistance to acting out evolutionary requirements would prompt re-live scenarios where there are lessons requiring absolute resolution of being  true to oneself. The outer form changes but, the test is always is this what I want? Is this my desire? It’s like innate applied kinesiology: muscle testing 101, basically. On the fruition side, there is a need to disseminate the resources accumulated over time through personal experience. There could be layers of karma around having taken things by force, interrupting, causing crisis to, or otherwise superseding the needs of others. This necessary check might mean various ways of leading by example, e.g. being transparent about how one can assert one’s power and take hold of the things they need.

Excellent.

Quote
If neither are in aspect i.e. the Pluto polarity point and north node are in effect,

The polarity point and north node would be in effect either no matter what.

Quote
this would place more of an emphasis on stretching beyond the known and into further practice of individuating, through the lens of Libra. The proverbial oxygen mask being secured over one’s own face and then being able to turn to other passengers.

Katherine, this is so well said. Everything you wrote is accurate to these signatures. Here's a question for you if you are called to go further in this way: since Pluto conjunct the sn will either imply total resistance to evolutionary necessity or total cooperation (or something in between) what are some real life contexts that Pluto on the sn in the 1st may represent? Do you know of any charts with this signature that either represents a nearly total relive (reflecting total resistance) or a nearly total fruitive condition? One that comes to mind off hand is the Dalai Lama.
Quote
Living on the road my friend
Was gonna keep you free and clean
Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath’s as hard as kerosene
“Poncho and Lefty”
Townes Van Zandt

Consensus: At this stage, the person may insist that they are a power of one- not seeing all the ways the prevailing culture, politics, economics, etc. mold their thinking. Choices might be really focused on the external and material methods of autonomy: ‘live free or die’ style, possibly extremist/ survivalist. 2nd: Libertarian, “user pays” tonality, 3rd: Fascists, me and mine…now yours is mine.

Individuated: extremely iconoclastic, punk DIY ethos, experimenting with the most radical anti-establishment ways and lifestyles, 2nd: philosophy of solipsism, total distancing from the collective, 3rd: maybe not hands on but possibly tolerant of media coverage via interviews, etc, on how and why they maintain their life independent from the status quo, emerging consciousness that they can provide a new template of how to live fully.

Spirituated: perhaps a minimalist/zen style life where there is a conscious awareness of what they consume, why do they need that, what are their truest desires, a tempering of excess to directly access their passion for Source 2nd: detour through the ego to access source, messages like 'I have an instinctual awareness ("hits") of what you/others need to actualize your spirituality, and you need personal access to me to know how to do this, only if I get what I want from you, i.e. direct access in exact ways I want and when I want.' 3rd: the internal fire burns clean and strong, total focus on directly experiencing God/des, all that is unneeded is burned away. This heart flame is arresting/ undeniable to those who witness it. The lighthouse home.

In your words, especially in describing the spiritual state there is a slight bent towards the 2nd house: survival, consumption, the archetype of "need", zen style life. You expressed the 3rd stage very well.

One thing that you didn't touch upon too much is the archetype of freedom. There core desire of the soul is the NEED for freedom. Freedom to actualize one's own desires and not be limited by anyone or anything. This of course creates its own self limitation and entrapment - which is the nature of all separating desires.

What would a relive condition feel like in any evolutionary stage (feel free to pick one), when there is a deep compulsion for freedom? Even for a soul where it's not a total relive situation - what is at the heart of the soul's desire nature that brings it into the current life? Feel free to engage this question if/however you want to.

With love
Ari Moshe
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #133 on: Jun 02, 2014, 03:06 PM »

Quote
Hi Ari,
I thought of a 'fun option' or nuance for your facilitation of this thread and your growth in teaching, as I recall your saying how much teaching serves your own knowledge and evolutionary growth. And that is: when you see holes in what we post, maybe framing a question back for us to think about and arrive at for ourselves? Not implying tons of back and forth--that could go on forever. And I don't mean cryptic riddles, that's frustrating. But...food for thought? If and when it could be helpful.

This is totally an idea and not to be taken as criticism of something that is 'missing' here. To be clear, I love your feedback style, it is as generous as it is fitting. Because sometimes one just needs to be told 'it's like this.' Done.

katherine, that is such wonderful advice. I have applied it above. Thank you so much for your courage, honesty and compassion. This is exactly what I needed to hear as per my own soul growth.

Quote
I just know that you really sit with the particulars and it has very much served your understanding of EA. There's something. What is your process when you are stuck? When you can't get a sense of a dynamic, and also when you can't see how something might play out?

If it's for a reading that I'm going to give to someone I'm learning to just let go of needing to figure it out; to drop the entire idea that the value of my service to another is because I can interpret their chart well. I do the best I can with as much preparation/meditation I put into the chart and my ongoing practice is to remember to only speak what I truly know, not what I wish I knew or believe that I have the potential to know.

I also remind myself that its my genuine love for the individual, attention, true listening and intention to be a vehicle for God that is the true service. Whenever I let go, I almost always end up "figuring out" what I couldn't previously understand anyway.

My biggest advice to everyone here, and all students I work with is to read charts for real live people and to make that the primary source of learning. And to always be content with what you can do; trusting that through consistent exposure, especially if love is present, learning just happens by itself.

With love,
Ari moshe
Logged
ari moshe
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 1231


« Reply #134 on: Jun 02, 2014, 05:57 PM »

Hello Mike, Wei, Rita, Emily, Katherine and anyone else who wishes to join,

We now move on to our next step: the north node and the Pluto polarity point!

The self image, the ego is always changing. Who I have known myself to be 10 years ago is not who I know myself to be now. The self image that we have always reflects the inner reality of the soul.

If my south node is in Sag and I am totally identified with the role of "teacher", I think I have all the answers and tend to speak "above" most people - that reflects an underlying soul reality. Why would I have such an ego structure? We look to Pluto to understand the "why" behind the south node.

Lets create a specific example. If my Pluto is in Scorpio in the 5th house and I have the sn of the Moon in Sag in the 8th, I may have an underlying desire to be seen and recognized and will engage my Sag sn as a vehicle to get that. I may create intense arguments /philosophical discusses in order to prove my point. I may compulsively need others to follow me and treat me/perceive me as a powerful teacher etc.

The north node would of course imply mental self reliance and stability wherein I am not needing to link my power to the external sources, but rather can just be content with my own thoughts without the need to prove myself or get something from others.

Those same signatures can also symbolize a soul that constantly gives its power away to other teacher type people so as to osmose with their power. This might cyclically create a situation wherein the soul feels abused, taken advantage of, misunderstood, and on a fundamental level not seen and recognized for who they really are. In this case the north node in gemini in the 2nd would be about going inside and thinking independent of any teacher or dogma.

In the examples above, the polarity point in the 11th would symbolize being oneself, learning detachment, witnessing as an observer. If one is steeped in the addictive world of Pluto in the 5th house as expressed through the sn in Sag in the 8th it might be impossible to be truly "detached". However this is where choice comes in. We can perpetuate old patterns of resistance, or choose to evolve. The choice to evolve, as a general EA rule, reflects in the north node which activates the Pluto polarity point.

The north node will always activate the pluto polarity point. The Pluto polarity point is the evolutionary intention of the current life.

So the north node in Gemini in the 2nd activates the Pluto polarity point in Taurus in the 11th house. Through mental self reliance the soul can just be who they are: they can stand alone in community and be content with who they are. This defacto resolves any unresolved karma with the south node as well. Then the soul can be a teacher, or be with teachers and not experience all the above mentioned power struggles because it is not needing to be seen and recognized (Pluto in the 5th). This then leads to a embodying a power that is from the soul itself. Activating the polarity point in the 11th allows the soul to just shine and express their purpose without the need to manipulate or control.

The Polarity point is something that can be focused on for the entire life. We don't "achieve" the polarity point because the soul is always working through layer after layer of desire. This is true until there are no longer any separating desires to exhaust.

So what I'd like everyone to do now is to work with any chart signature you'd like, it can be the same one's you've worked with before, and to to examine the evolutionary intention of the current life through the symbols of the north node and the Pluto polarity point.

And again, here is the excerpt from Green's talk on the planetary method of chart interpretation:

******************************

What I’d like to do is try to make this as experiential for you this morning as possible, and the way I would like to do that is for all of you to keep your own particular birth chart in your head now as we go through this specific method so you can apply it immediately to your own case.

      This particular method is very sequential; it is very Virgo like, ABC in nature, leading to a very deductive and Virgo-like analysis. In total, you will then find that once you employ this particular methodology--ABC--this will lead to a Pisces kind of awareness, meaning inductive, wherein you can see the whole first and then immediately grasp all the parts.  So it is like going from Virgo to Pisces. Now as we go through this system, when you have questions, please ask me when you have the question, because the intention is to keep this as clear as possible as we are moving through it.

      So the very first way we want to start the system is, of course, with Pluto. This is number one on your list; meaning as we go through this it is going to be like an outline. So we want to start with Pluto. We can ask a Pluto question: Why? And what we have here from a Plutonian point of view, of course, is the direct connection to the Soul, the Soul itself. Now, of course, if we understand this, the Soul is going to create the overall personality structure in any given life that is uniquely orientated to phenomenal reality in such a way that that unique orientation experiences the phenomenal reality in a way that is consistent with the evolutionary intentions and karmic requirement that the Soul has in any given life.

      So we want to locate the natal position of Pluto first by house and sign. What is this going to be demonstrating? We have to remember that the nature of the Soul linked with time and space reality is simultaneously linked with the principle that we call evolution. Evolution is a dynamic in time and space reality that is beyond debate. The simplest way to know evolution: Is it not true that everybody on this planet, everyone in this room, inwardly always has an inner feeling of being in a continuous state of becoming? Who does not have such a feeling? So you can see right away just through normal life experience that this is a principle, a truth if you will, that applies to all people everywhere as long as we are living in time-space reality.

      Now, if we linked evolution to the principle of the Soul, we ask a logical question: What is, in fact, the inner mechanism or dynamic within the Soul that causes evolution? The answer is straightforward, simple, and basic as most natural truths are. The answer is, in fact, the very same answer that came out of the enlightenment of the famous Buddha under the famous Bodhi tree, when he pondered the nature of sorrow and pain, misery and the like. What was actually promoted in Buddhism terms as Nirvana was based on the awareness within him called desire.

      In each Soul there are two competing and antithetical desires that create evolution. One desire is a separating desire, meaning to separate away from what we can call God. And these sorts of desires are many, myriad, manifesting in typical ways as the desire for the new lover, the new possession, the new career ambition, whatever.  All Souls have these desires, and simultaneous with the desire and coequal to it is the desire to return to that which has created the Soul in the first place.  So, in effect, the essence of the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination (Pluto) of all separating desires to the exclusion of only one desire which can remain, which is to unite with the source of the Soul itself.

      This is a very simple natural truth that operates independent of what we call astrology and can be validated by every single one of us in this room. In fact, it can be validated by everybody on earth.  The simplest way to know it, again: Is not true that we can have whatever separating desire, oh we want this new thing over here, this, that or whatever, and we may have the ability to obtain that which we are desiring, and, of course, we have a momentary sense of satisfaction when we get it. But once we get it, what soon replaces the sense of satisfaction is, in effect, the sense of dissatisfaction, the sense of something more. It is exactly the sense of dissatisfaction that is mirroring and echoing this ultimate desire to return and to reunite with the source of all things. Who of you has not known this to be your own experience? You see, it is universal.

       So the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination of all separating desires. The duality of these antithetical desires is intrinsic within the Soul and is what the psychologists call the basis of free choice.

      Now, when we look at the nature of the natal position of Pluto, we are looking at two simultaneous phenomena, which is why we are starting with this number A on our Virgo list.  Number one, it will describe very succinctly the types of desires that the soul has had prior to the current life, relative to its evolutionary necessities, its evolutionary intentions.  That does not mean, by the way, that that is going to correlate or reflect all the prior lives that the Soul has had. The point is that the soul in any given life will only draw upon specific prior life times that have a direct connection to or bearing on the current life evolutionary intentions. The Sanskrit archetype for that is called Prarabdha Karma.

      So, what the natal position of Pluto is demonstrating is the specific prior lifetimes and orientations that have direct bearing on the current lifetime. A simple example: What if we are dealing with a ninth house Pluto individual?  We can make a very simple Piscean/ Virgo deduction that this would have been a Soul who, prior to the current life, one way or another, was desiring to understand its individual connection to the cosmological reality we call the universe, meaning natural desires to understand philosophy and cosmology and metaphysics, religion (even if that's atheism), anything that is a form of philosophy connected to the cosmos. Are we clear? Good.

      And now what would that mean coming into the current life? And this is one of the secrets about Pluto that most people don't realize, i.e. when you read it in your happy books that it somehow connects to compulsion, obsession, defensiveness, resistance to change and all these things, and these things are accurate, but they never tell you why, and it is because at this point Pluto is going to correlate with the deepest sources of your unconscious sense of security. Keeping in mind that security is a function of self-consistency. Self-consistency is a function of the past, meaning what has come before. Again, how many of you would totally and wholly embrace the experience of absolute insecurity? No takers? Hmm? Ever wonder why we have compulsion, obsession? That's what psychologists call repetitive compulsion. 

      So by looking at the natal position of Pluto (house and sign), beyond the metaphysical point of view, you are describing in anybody’s life the sources that correlate with the deepest sense of unconscious security in the person. And in coming into the current life, the person instinctually gravitates to those sources in order to maintain a sense of self-consistency equaling security. Now clearly, if the soul stayed right there, there would, in fact, be no evolution. So this becomes a first point to examine. The next point is to determine how it is that soul is going to grow or evolve in the current life. And the answer very happily is that the next step (evolution) is determined--because we have to remember that we are living in a universe, time/space, that of itself is defined by the law of polarity--by the opposite house and sign of the natal position of Pluto.

      So, following our example of the ninth house, it is, of course, naturally in opposition to the third house. Now, one of the natural problems in the ninth house/Sagittarius/Jupiter archetype is that it correlates, in essence, with the nature of phenomenal reality in total. And it is the ninth house in any chart--Jupiter/Sagittarius, archetypically natural law-- that creates the awareness in the human organism, in each person, that we are in fact connected to something much larger than just the earth itself. It creates the awareness that we are connected to a solar system, universes, and galaxies. And this sort of natural awareness gives rise to the philosophical questions that all human beings ask: What does it all mean? How are we connected to this thing?

      One of the problems of the ninth house is that it will typically orientate to a portion of the overall truth, and then consider that particular portion to be the total truth, which is why we call it the Billy Graham Archetype, meaning the need to convince and convert other people to your particular point of view. Why? In order to feel secure. This is why in this case we are going to have a have a third house polarity.

       Most of us have already realized in our happy books that Gemini correlates with diversity, yes?  Most of us realized,--particularly for those that find yourself to be Gemini--that Gemini is a happy little sign because you put it in a bookstore, for example, and it is going to go around and do what? It is going to read two pages of this and one page of that, and maybe one right over here, but it is thinking that it is reading everything. And this means that it is trying to understand as much as possible relative to the whole phenomenon called creation. So when you have this polarity point to the ninth house Pluto, you can see the obvious evolutionary intention. The intention of the Soul is to evolve beyond the particular portion—part--of the truth that it has already realized. You understand the point? 

      So the Soul is like a computer, and it has its own program and in a typically Plutonian fashion, then, the Soul will actually literally program necessary philosophical confrontations (Pluto), meaning it will attract to itself other individuals that are more philosophically or cosmologically evolved than itself. These people will have the effect of penetrating (Pluto) to the weak link in this person’s existing philosophical structure. And by identifying the weak link, well, guess what? That whole structure collapses. And this is induces the Gemini evolutionary intention. Understand the point? I mean we could go on and on, but we only have an hour and a half. So, on our Virgo list we start with Pluto, natal position, polarity point. Any questions on this aspect of it? So, we are clear on this particular point?

      Next step--number B on your Virgo list. We want to, of course, examine the nature of the south node of the moon. Now, why do we want to examine this point? The reason is that the south node of the moon will specifically correlate to the types of egocentric structures that the soul has necessarily created in order to consciously actualize the evolutionary desires or intentions, which have, in fact, preceded the current life.

      That is to say that the moon, the south node of the moon specifically, correlates to what we call the ego. Now take this very seriously because, of course, I realize in astrology land that astrologers can assign the idea or the archetype of the ego to whatever planetary symbolism.  Over the last 10-20 years it has been given to Saturn, Sun or whatever. But in reality in the astrology we do, the ego is specific to the moon. The way you can prove this through natural law is very straightforward. As an example we can understand that the ego is that which correlates with what we can psychologically call a self-image.

      Now, for example, if we make an ego connection to the Sun and we look into the nature of our solar system, of course, the Sun appears to be relatively fixed, does it not? Now, do you feel throughout your life that your own inner self-image has been fixed and constant?  When we compare this to examining the moon and its various phases, you can see the direct link to your own self-image and its evolution. Understand the point?

      So, in effect, the Soul must create a necessary ego to create a self-image of the soul itself. So the south node is the conscious component that the soul generates or creates to actualize the desires that are intrinsic to the soul itself. As a simple example, let’s still use our Ninth House Pluto as our example, remembering that the ninth house Pluto is how I want to understand myself in the cosmos, etc. Now when we put the south Node in the seventh house, what are we looking at? We Are looking at a soul who prior to the current life, over a series of recent prior life times, has created egocentric structures that have been actualized through a seventh house archetype. What does it mean?  It's going to mean that the soul has created a series of prior life egos that have been structured in such a way as to initiate a diversity of relationships, (seventh house), who looked like what? Ninth house teacher types. And by initiating this kind of relationships with teacher types, it has been collecting for itself, or attracting to itself, the kind of information that it has desired relative to the ninth house Pluto. You see the link?

      Now, to show you why cookbook astrology is B.S.--I mean wrong--compare this to a ninth house Pluto but put the south node in the first house. You are going to still have the same complex of desires, but what types of personality structure, or egocentric structure has the Soul used that is very different from the seventh house? In the first case you have dependency on an external teacher, but when you put the south node in the first house, in essence, what you now have is a soul who has the same desire structure, but now with this south node in the first house you have an individual who has learned to ask and answer its own questions. You see why cookbook astrology is so wrong?

So in either case you still have a pre-existing orientation to reality. When that ninth house Pluto, south node in the seventh person comes into life she/he will gravitate, as they have prior to the current life, in exactly that way. This is why there is going to be a thing called the north node.  You see the point?  So in this ninth house Pluto/seventh house south node, we have a polarity point in the third house, and we have a north node in the first. So in essence, the north node in this case, the conscious actualization, makes that third house polarity occur, understand my point? 
 
      What that would actually mean in this life as the person begin to emotionally mature (moon) in the current life, is that it progressively would begin to rebel against external teachers, their message and their voices. Because the intention (north node/first house) is that the person is meant to learn to ask and answer its own questions. This is going to create necessary intellectual, philosophical confrontation with external teacher types. You see? 

      In the second case, the person has been living in happy splendor, all within themselves in a form of narcissism (south node/first house).  You see my point? So now why are we seeing the north node in the seventh house? They must learn to open up and share themselves with other people and in so doing, in opening up to other people, they are going to attract (third house polarity), you see how it works. You apply this to all charts. You start just this way, A, B on your happy list. Questions? So we have got this down now?

      The next step in our happy methodology is then to go to the Sun, by the house and sign of the Sun and the aspects it is making. Why? Because the Sun is going to correlate specifically to how we are integrating and giving purpose and meaning to our current life experience. So in essence we are describing an evolutionary transition in our A B list, an evolutionary transition from past to the current life.  The Sun is now going to show you how that is integrated and given purpose and meaning in the context of the current life. How the Sun in Sagittarius integrates life experience, gives purpose and meaning, is going to be very different from how a Virgo Sun integrates life experience and gives purpose and meaning, you understand my point? 

      So once you get used to these methods you ultimately get to play the role of an evolutionary detective, why this Sun sign? You understand my point? So that is why our next step is to move right to the Sun.  And again I want you to be able to apply this experientially to your own chart, so try to work with that as we move through it so you can see the reality of what we are talking about. So just take a moment right now and think about your own natal Pluto, polarity point, north and south node and your Sun sign. Take a moment, don't ask a question, just take a moment!

Now, how many are completely stumped? Maybe in a moment it will become more clear for you.

Audience: How about if your Pluto is right on the cusp?

Jeffrey: On the cusp?

Audience: Yeah.

Jeffrey: What you have when Pluto is on the cusp is the archetype of initiation, but if you have it just before the cusp of moving into the next house, you have the archetype evolutionarily of culmination--an entire series of prior lives all culminating in the context of the current life.
Audience: But you would still interpret it in terms of the house that it is in?

Jeffrey: Yeah. And see then what you have is as it progressively culminates—when Pluto is evolving into the next house—you still determine the polarity point, which allows for that evolutionary shift. This can by the way, psychologically create frustration, because the Soul already can feel where it is trying to go, but it also has to culminate, so it has this push-- pull, yeah.

Audience: What if Pluto is conjunct the nodes—actually, let’s take the north node.

Jeffrey: That's a very unique evolutionary signature.  When you find Pluto conjunct the north node it means in all cases, that that soul has been working in that area of evolutionary development prior to the current life and is meant to completely focus on that area in the context of the current life.  There is no polarity.

Audience: If Pluto and the north node are in the same house but not conjunct, is that the same meaning or not?

Jeffrey: First, you want to determine if the node is balsamic or new phase relative to Pluto, which creates its own archetypical meaning.  And then there used to be an old phrase in astrology (I am going to date myself now) but it used to be called in mundo, meaning conjunct by sign. But unless you have technically an absolute conjunction, then you have a different kind of meaning depending on the phasal relationship between Pluto and the node itself.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video