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rita
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Posts: 40


« Reply #135 on: Jun 04, 2014, 12:53 PM »

,Hi Ari and group


  Pluto´s polarity / NN seventh house in Aquarius

For evolution to proceed this individual will find it self periodically with an identity crisis which becomes deeper as the individual refuses to take action towards its evolutionary intent by remaining isolated from relationships for fear of loss of freedom that all relationships curtail.
These crisis occur periodically creating a loss of perspective and anger, as the individual confronts itself with the incapacity to answer its own questions about "who it is and what it is" in relationship to others.
 
This non growth will over power the individual and will push it out of its loner habit comfort zone into a new relationship, as the evolutionary intent is to evolve and go beyond what it already is, as the individual realizes that it needs others to achieve this goal. So the individual will be instinctually attracted to others that have the same unconscious Soul vibrational resonance, who it believes that by inter-relating with them will help it answer who it is and what it is in relationship to others.
 
This individual could have a deep attraction and desire finding itself in a sexual relationship in which the partner is the individuated factor,giving the individual new perspectives and points of view. The relationship will continue until it feels that it has osmosed for itself the different / original and individualistic beliefs, habits, which had originally attracted it to that partner. The same way this individual is instinctively / sexually attracted to another, or it may also be instinctually repelled by the other, or it could be repelled /attracted by the same person.
This happens as the individual may feel threatened by the beliefs of the other and the impact it has on the reality that it lives by. This causes the individual to feel alienated from its peers, family and friends as it adopts for itself these new beliefs.
The individual could show off its creative ability to its partner and the partner could help the individual share and objectify its creativity, so as to link its special purpose to the well being of society, this way teaching the individual to be less subjective. The individual can become very angry if the others do not acknowledge its specialness, or the specialness the individual  believes it deserves, this will happen to force the individual to objectify and be less self focussed.
This individual would seek relationships with others who have more power than itself as it views power as an important factor for success and glory.
It could be attracted very instinctively to another and it will wonder and desire to know and understand what is it that attracted it so strongly to that other.
Some attractions will be sexual others not so, all relationships will be of different duration as its main purpose is to discover who it is or what it is in relation to others. It can draw onto itself partners that have a shocking effect on the individuals beliefs as they resonate so differently to its own or, it could also be that the advice the other gives the individual is so distinct from their own views causing in the individual a shock and trauma effect.
All these are necessary for the individual to be less self centered and realize that there is a world beyond itself.
It could seek relationships with people who can raise it to some power beyond what it already is or the partner could be some trampoline for the individual to achieve its recognition/power that it believes it deserves. The means that the individual used to get what it wanted may not always be the right ones, giving the excuse that others do it so it is ok to do it also.
 
There is another possibility with this placement, which is that the individual will follow some of its attractions totally open heartedly when it feels the others intentions are pure/good. Other times it could either reject / accept the information that another gives it, depending of the others motives, which means that if the individual felt the others motives where sincere and pure then it would consider them. If the motives where not felt as sincere or pure then the individual would reject them totally.
As a result of the many confrontations this individual will have with its partners, when it does not feel that its needs are being met or because its partners does not feel that their needs are met, there is a lack of equality and balance in the relationship. As these confrontations reoccur the individual learns equality of giving , of listening and to give to the other before it gives to itself. This makes the individual aware of the changes in the others likes and dislikes and it also understands its own /  the others intentions and motivations.
This individual could be hypnotically attracted to an anarchist in the street that resonates with some of  the individuals own beliefs helping the person to loose its fear of judgement by society or family, helping it to individuate and break free from consensus society values .
 As a result of the individual becoming less self centered, it gives the individual all the freedom to explore and understand itself through the interrelationship it has with others as itself would give the same freedom to its partner and the relationship could be balanced out. Having time for oneself and equal time for others that is Pluto´s bottom line which is to learn to be in a relationship on equal basis for everything.

 Consensus
This individual would probably seek and project onto the partners its desire to discover itself through the relationship  it forms because the Leo archetype tends to be very self focussed and narcissistic, especially in the consensus stages. This individual with some money could be an elitist or would choose partners with a certain status, showy cars and would have a traditional home, meaning it would feel well integrated within the system with all its flaws. It would probably be attracted to things that are flashy that draw attention upon itself. It would look for partners that would have fixed opinions about society, go to mass and  value others for what they have. Possibly these people would use all types of means to get what they desire or aspire. These people can be very rooted to their own ways. Not liking and fighting away any body  who tries to question their beliefs or traditions. There is a tendency to believe that material goods and all separating desires can bring them fame, success and happiness.

Individuated
This individual would probably seek partners who can help it jump further out of the box, having itself already started to see that relationships do not have to be what consensus dictates. In this stage the individual will be more focussed in learning with the other on a more balanced and equal way. Questioning itself it realizes that it needs anthers of like mind to have some answers to the many new questions that need to be answered. New relationships formed will we useful for the individual as it learns to listen to what are the needs of the others through listening to the other. The individual will learn more about itself through compare and contrast with others. The beginning of some sort of understanding that one is not the creator of our special gift begins to form in the individual, this said , the individual starts to understand how vast and infinite the universe is and how small it self is.The individual has already realized that material goods, power and money do not bring happiness and is much more interested to put a back pack on its back and take off into the world with no tomorrow, discovering itself through listening to others ideas and beliefs as they come along its way.

Spiritual
 In the beginning stage the individual has understood by the call it feels coming from its Soul that it has to be at the service of a higher cause. As a result, this humbles its Soul and the importance it gave itself is lost through giving of itself to others instead of wanting all the focus for itself. Eventually it understands that its talents or self creativity are all gifts from God/ Source, and that it has to share the knowledge with  humanity for the better of others and serving a greater cause.  
The success, recognition by society, power and achievements have a totally different meaning for the individual, shying away from any glorification for its own talents for his centre is no longer outside of itself and is now turned towards the returning desire of the Soul to go home.

Thank you for the opportunity
rita

 













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ari moshe
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« Reply #136 on: Jun 06, 2014, 02:09 PM »

Hi Rita, thank you for your post! Just wanted to let you know I'll be responding to your post either later today or tomorrow.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #137 on: Jun 07, 2014, 07:51 PM »

Hi Rita,

Quote
Pluto´s polarity / NN seventh house in Aquarius

For evolution to proceed this individual will find it self periodically with an identity crisis which becomes deeper as the individual refuses to take action towards its evolutionary intent by remaining isolated from relationships for fear of loss of freedom that all relationships curtail.
These crisis occur periodically creating a loss of perspective and anger, as the individual confronts itself with the incapacity to answer its own questions about "who it is and what it is" in relationship to others.
 
This non growth will over power the individual and will push it out of its loner habit comfort zone into a new relationship, as the evolutionary intent is to evolve and go beyond what it already is, as the individual realizes that it needs others to achieve this goal. So the individual will be instinctually attracted to others that have the same unconscious Soul vibrational resonance, who it believes that by inter-relating with them will help it answer who it is and what it is in relationship to others.

This is so beautifully articulated.
 
Quote
This individual could have a deep attraction and desire finding itself in a sexual relationship in which the partner is the individuated factor,giving the individual new perspectives and points of view. The relationship will continue until it feels that it has osmosed for itself the different / original and individualistic beliefs, habits, which had originally attracted it to that partner. The same way this individual is instinctively / sexually attracted to another, or it may also be instinctually repelled by the other, or it could be repelled /attracted by the same person.

To make sure you are tuning into the bottom line of this signature I have a focusing question to ask you: What is the core reason why this soul with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st would experience instinctual repulsion or attraction to another? What would this soul learn from the north node and polarity point?
 
Quote
This happens as the individual may feel threatened by the beliefs of the other and the impact it has on the reality that it lives by. This causes the individual to feel alienated from its peers, family and friends as it adopts for itself these new beliefs.

"Beliefs" is not relevant to this archetype. Where do you get the idea of alienation from peers, family and friends? I'm not saying that is not a possibility - though family of course is 4th house.

Quote
The individual could show off its creative ability to its partner and the partner could help the individual share and objectify its creativity, so as to link its special purpose to the well being of society, this way teaching the individual to be less subjective. The individual can become very angry if the others do not acknowledge its specialness, or the specialness the individual  believes it deserves, this will happen to force the individual to objectify and be less self focussed.

Excellent.

Quote
This individual would seek relationships with others who have more power than itself as it views power as an important factor for success and glory.


Again, what astrological signatures do you base that on?

Quote
It could be attracted very instinctively to another and it will wonder and desire to know and understand what is it that attracted it so strongly to that other.

What is that based on?
 
Quote
Some attractions will be sexual others not so, all relationships will be of different duration as its main purpose is to discover who it is or what it is in relation to others. It can draw onto itself partners that have a shocking effect on the individuals beliefs as they resonate so differently to its own or, it could also be that the advice the other gives the individual is so distinct from their own views causing in the individual a shock and trauma effect.
All these are necessary for the individual to be less self centered and realize that there is a world beyond itself.

It could seek relationships with people who can raise it to some power beyond what it already is or the partner could be some trampoline for the individual to achieve its recognition/power that it believes it deserves. The means that the individual used to get what it wanted may not always be the right ones, giving the excuse that others do it so it is ok to do it also.

What is the astrological basis for all of that?
 
Quote
There is another possibility with this placement, which is that the individual will follow some of its attractions totally open heartedly when it feels the others intentions are pure/good. Other times it could either reject / accept the information that another gives it, depending of the others motives, which means that if the individual felt the others motives where sincere and pure then it would consider them. If the motives where not felt as sincere or pure then the individual would reject them totally.


What is your basis for this line of thinking?

Quote
As a result of the many confrontations this individual will have with its partners, when it does not feel that its needs are being met or because its partners does not feel that their needs are met, there is a lack of equality and balance in the relationship. As these confrontations reoccur the individual learns equality of giving , of listening and to give to the other before it gives to itself. This makes the individual aware of the changes in the others likes and dislikes and it also understands its own /  the others intentions and motivations.
This individual could be hypnotically attracted to an anarchist in the street that resonates with some of  the individuals own beliefs helping the person to loose its fear of judgement by society or family, helping it to individuate and break free from consensus society values .

That is possible and also depends entirely on EA state of course. Judgement would be specific to the Capricorn archetype. Alienation from family is not necessarily implied in these signatures. Again, what is the astrological basis for your interpretation?

Quote
As a result of the individual becoming less self centered, it gives the individual all the freedom to explore and understand itself through the interrelationship it has with others as itself would give the same freedom to its partner and the relationship could be balanced out. Having time for oneself and equal time for others that is Pluto´s bottom line which is to learn to be in a relationship on equal basis for everything.

The bottom line is not having time for oneself and equal time for others. With the polarity point and the nn in Aquarius in the 7th the bottom line is to learn sharing, inclusion, listening, and what is good for the group first and above personal egocentric impulses. How does doing so create soul evolution relative to the existing resistance (sn, Pluto) within the soul?

Quote
Consensus
This individual would probably seek and project onto the partners its desire to discover itself through the relationship  it forms because the Leo archetype tends to be very self focussed and narcissistic, especially in the consensus stages.

Not necessarily more so in the consensus state!

Quote
This individual with some money could be an elitist or would choose partners with a certain status, showy cars and would have a traditional home, meaning it would feel well integrated within the system with all its flaws. It would probably be attracted to things that are flashy that draw attention upon itself. It would look for partners that would have fixed opinions about society, go to mass and  value others for what they have. Possibly these people would use all types of means to get what they desire or aspire. These people can be very rooted to their own ways. Not liking and fighting away any body  who tries to question their beliefs or traditions. There is a tendency to believe that material goods and all separating desires can bring them fame, success and happiness.

Material goods are not relevant to this signature. What you wrote did not emphasize the evolutionary direction of the soul through the polarity point and north node in Aquarius in the 7th. What is the bottom line evolutionary intent for this soul?

Quote
Individuated
This individual would probably seek partners who can help it jump further out of the box, having itself already started to see that relationships do not have to be what consensus dictates. In this stage the individual will be more focussed in learning with the other on a more balanced and equal way. Questioning itself it realizes that it needs anthers of like mind to have some answers to the many new questions that need to be answered. New relationships formed will we useful for the individual as it learns to listen to what are the needs of the others through listening to the other. The individual will learn more about itself through compare and contrast with others. The beginning of some sort of understanding that one is not the creator of our special gift begins to form in the individual, this said , the individual starts to understand how vast and infinite the universe is and how small it self is.The individual has already realized that material goods, power and money do not bring happiness and is much more interested to put a back pack on its back and take off into the world with no tomorrow, discovering itself through listening to others ideas and beliefs as they come along its way.

What you wrote does encompass the essence of this signature within the individuated stages especially in regards to listening to others, however material goods and money is not inherently connected to these signatures.

If you'd like, take the following example and explain the evolutionary intent: A soul in the middle of the 2nd individuated with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st. This soul may be very creative and talented in many ways. This soul, being well established in the 2nd individuated, will have a sense of community that is very much outside the "norms" of society. With the north node and Pluto in Aquarius in the 7th what is the evolutionary intent for this soul?

Quote
Spiritual
 In the beginning stage the individual has understood by the call it feels coming from its Soul that it has to be at the service of a higher cause. As a result, this humbles its Soul and the importance it gave itself is lost through giving of itself to others instead of wanting all the focus for itself. Eventually it understands that its talents or self creativity are all gifts from God/ Source, and that it has to share the knowledge with  humanity for the better of others and serving a greater cause. 
The success, recognition by society, power and achievements have a totally different meaning for the individual, shying away from any glorification for its own talents for his centre is no longer outside of itself and is now turned towards the returning desire of the Soul to go home.

All that can be accurate however again you didn't say much about the evolutionary intent relative to the nn and the polarity point. If you'd like, here is another case study: A soul with these signatures in the middle of second stage spiritual. What is the evolutionary intent? Whats the core challenge for this soul at this stage?

Thank you for your incredible dedication and efforts Rita. Please feel free to respond to my questions/promptings only to the extent that it feels helpful for you to do so.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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Katherine
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« Reply #138 on: Jun 08, 2014, 01:26 AM »

Hi Katherine,

Quote
Pluto & SN in the 1st H
So, generally, what could be said of encountering Pluto in the same house as the SN is that the Soul has constructed in the past egoic structures that similarly personify it’s deepest desires i.e. there is at least a resonance between the conscious and unconscious desires, a resonance of how they are acted out.  

While the person may not necessarily have a clear awareness that their conscious desires are congruent with their Soul’s desires, there may be an obtuse but strong sense of knowing what is most important to them.  (This would have been a mechanism for evolutionary acceleration.) Ok, so assuming the doubling up of Pluto and the SN of the moon is a fast track for growth in areas of desire awareness, gassing it so to speak, placement in the 1st house could indicate an amplified instinctual process, a quickening of getting down to and attaining those bottom-line desires.  This intended growth could have been resisted, embraced, or a combination thereof.  

So, getting into the Why, Pluto and the SN in the 1st could have been a necessary program to remediate dependencies on various externalities, or abdication of power. Pluto may have been functioning for a long time from the perspective of tapping into its instinctual desires however, being convinced of another's agenda (Sag) becoming overly concerned with material preservation (Taurus) at the cost of one’s innate priorities may have invoked a need to focus on the actual acting out of the subjective desires. Or, to put it another way: to do the right thing and for the right reason, with respect to personal integrity.  Which, merrily, gets into the variables of the signature: lunar nodal axis station, either ‘body’ aspecting the Ascendant and/ or, forming a conjunction to each other.  Any combination of these scenarios would magnify the force of the 1st house signature.  

In the instance of Pluto conjunct the SN in the 1st, a resistance to acting out evolutionary requirements would prompt re-live scenarios where there are lessons requiring absolute resolution of being  true to oneself. The outer form changes but, the test is always is this what I want? Is this my desire? It’s like innate applied kinesiology: muscle testing 101, basically. On the fruition side, there is a need to disseminate the resources accumulated over time through personal experience. There could be layers of karma around having taken things by force, interrupting, causing crisis to, or otherwise superseding the needs of others. This necessary check might mean various ways of leading by example, e.g. being transparent about how one can assert one’s power and take hold of the things they need.

Excellent.

Quote
If neither are in aspect i.e. the Pluto polarity point and north node are in effect,

The polarity point and north node would be in effect either no matter what.

For some reason I thought that the Soul is really wrapping up the dynamics of the SN/Pluto conjunction so it's really not flowing in the NN/PPP direction, until the second Saturn Return. (The water is on from the spigot, but not from the nozzle which creates a back pressure and the slowest drip, then whooosh! ...?)

Quote
this would place more of an emphasis on stretching beyond the known and into further practice of individuating, through the lens of Libra. The proverbial oxygen mask being secured over one’s own face and then being able to turn to other passengers.

Katherine, this is so well said. Everything you wrote is accurate to these signatures. Here's a question for you if you are called to go further in this way: since Pluto conjunct the sn will either imply total resistance to evolutionary necessity or total cooperation (or something in between) what are some real life contexts that Pluto on the sn in the 1st may represent? Do you know of any charts with this signature that either represents a nearly total relive (reflecting total resistance) or a nearly total fruitive condition? One that comes to mind off hand is the Dalai Lama.
Quote

Hmm, thank you for asking! I don't know. I'm really bad with celebrity examples. I did mention the Dalai Lama in my second post and you are mentioning him now so, I'll check out his chart more. When I was doing this assignment and racking my brain for examples of 1st h Pluto. I had an intuition to find Black Panther members... Sure enough, Bobby Seale and Eldridge Cleaver do. I almost wrote about Eldridge because of Pluto 1st conjunct the Ascendent conjunct SN in the 12th though. But still, he's a classic example of relive/fruition (SN Cancer 12th) as he was in and out of jail most of his life. Soul on Ice was written in prison.

Living on the road my friend
Was gonna keep you free and clean
Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath’s as hard as kerosene
“Poncho and Lefty”
Townes Van Zandt

Consensus: At this stage, the person may insist that they are a power of one- not seeing all the ways the prevailing culture, politics, economics, etc. mold their thinking. Choices might be really focused on the external and material methods of autonomy: ‘live free or die’ style, possibly extremist/ survivalist. 2nd: Libertarian, “user pays” tonality, 3rd: Fascists, me and mine…now yours is mine.

Individuated: extremely iconoclastic, punk DIY ethos, experimenting with the most radical anti-establishment ways and lifestyles, 2nd: philosophy of solipsism, total distancing from the collective, 3rd: maybe not hands on but possibly tolerant of media coverage via interviews, etc, on how and why they maintain their life independent from the status quo, emerging consciousness that they can provide a new template of how to live fully.

Spirituated: perhaps a minimalist/zen style life where there is a conscious awareness of what they consume, why do they need that, what are their truest desires, a tempering of excess to directly access their passion for Source 2nd: detour through the ego to access source, messages like 'I have an instinctual awareness ("hits") of what you/others need to actualize your spirituality, and you need personal access to me to know how to do this, only if I get what I want from you, i.e. direct access in exact ways I want and when I want.' 3rd: the internal fire burns clean and strong, total focus on directly experiencing God/des, all that is unneeded is burned away. This heart flame is arresting/ undeniable to those who witness it. The lighthouse home.

In your words, especially in describing the spiritual state there is a slight bent towards the 2nd house: survival, consumption, the archetype of "need", zen style life. You expressed the 3rd stage very well.

Agreed...of the monastic vows of simplicity I could have steered toward e.g. celibacy and using that energy toward direct engagement of Self and Source.

One thing that you didn't touch upon too much is the archetype of freedom. There core desire of the soul is the NEED for freedom. Freedom to actualize one's own desires and not be limited by anyone or anything. This of course creates its own self limitation and entrapment - which is the nature of all separating desires.

Yeah, about that... when I started this entry I was really putting pressure on myself not to repeat what I wrote from the first two posts. (Sometimes on the message board it feels like 'nobody here but us chickens' and other times it's like the whole world reads it.) I wrote it more as the third installment and because I rang the freedom bell pretty hard previously I just...anyway.  And it's good that you brought this up because when I reread my post the next day I found it incomplete. I really just need to do each assignment for me, to round out my own understanding. Note to self.

What would a relive condition feel like in any evolutionary stage (feel free to pick one), when there is a deep compulsion for freedom? Even for a soul where it's not a total relive situation - what is at the heart of the soul's desire nature that brings it into the current life? Feel free to engage this question if/however you want to.

I imagine that it would feel really limiting and that would be really frustrating. A compulsion toward repitition and then having a no, not again reaction at the consequences. I'll need to think about this more.

With love
Ari Moshe

Thank you, Ari!
God bless,
Katherine


* EldridgeCleaver.gif (116.17 KB, 748x1102 - viewed 37 times.)
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2014, 04:00 AM by Katherine » Logged
Katherine
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« Reply #139 on: Jun 08, 2014, 03:59 AM »

Quote
Hi Ari,
I thought of a 'fun option' or nuance for your facilitation of this thread and your growth in teaching, as I recall your saying how much teaching serves your own knowledge and evolutionary growth. And that is: when you see holes in what we post, maybe framing a question back for us to think about and arrive at for ourselves? Not implying tons of back and forth--that could go on forever. And I don't mean cryptic riddles, that's frustrating. But...food for thought? If and when it could be helpful.

This is totally an idea and not to be taken as criticism of something that is 'missing' here. To be clear, I love your feedback style, it is as generous as it is fitting. Because sometimes one just needs to be told 'it's like this.' Done.

katherine, that is such wonderful advice. I have applied it above. Thank you so much for your courage, honesty and compassion. This is exactly what I needed to hear as per my own soul growth.

Awesome. And thank you...Namaste

Quote
I just know that you really sit with the particulars and it has very much served your understanding of EA. There's something. What is your process when you are stuck? When you can't get a sense of a dynamic, and also when you can't see how something might play out?

If it's for a reading that I'm going to give to someone I'm learning to just let go of needing to figure it out; to drop the entire idea that the value of my service to another is because I can interpret their chart well. I do the best I can with as much preparation/meditation I put into the chart and my ongoing practice is to remember to only speak what I truly know, not what I wish I knew or believe that I have the potential to know.

I also remind myself that its my genuine love for the individual, attention, true listening and intention to be a vehicle for God that is the true service. Whenever I let go, I almost always end up "figuring out" what I couldn't previously understand anyway.

My biggest advice to everyone here, and all students I work with is to read charts for real live people and to make that the primary source of learning. And to always be content with what you can do; trusting that through consistent exposure, especially if love is present, learning just happens by itself.

Speaking with integrity, being present, trusting in the process, and being content with the session is all great advice. This is perfect. Thank you for sharing, Ari!
"My biggest advice to everyone here, and all students I work with is to read charts for real live people and to make that the primary source of learning." This is a big one for me as I tend to stay the 'professional student' and never ever feel ready. Right now, with EA, I have people lined up, wanting the work, trying to throw money at me (full scale--I have no idea why) and it's... terrifying. I know I need more courage to practice--this helps.


With love,
Ari moshe

Thank you for being so open and supportive.
God bless,
Katherine
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rita
Member

Posts: 40


« Reply #140 on: Jun 08, 2014, 10:52 AM »



Hi Ari and group,




What is the core reason why this soul with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st would experience instinctual repulsion or attraction to another? What would this soul learn from the north node and polarity point?

One reason i dare venture think that repulsion could be felt with this configuration considering the first house, Aries would be that the individual is in a new cycle and all is new, being doubly narcissistic in nature. It would feel subconsciously very insecure, lack of confidence and would doubt itself when confronted by others on how they project their desires on to the others.
The evolutionary intent would be to embrace others by becoming more objective and listening to the other, taking their desires/needs into equal consideration.
By embracing the polarity point 7th house, it would accept its attraction to different types of people in which the individual could uniquely express its creativity and loose the subconscious fear of loosing its power to the other.It would also learn to share, and put the groups interests above its own, learning to be less subjective by applying equality / objectivity.


If you'd like, take the following example and explain the evolutionary intent: A soul in the middle of the 2nd individuated with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st. This soul may be very creative and talented in many ways. This soul, being well established in the 2nd individuated, will have a sense of community that is very much outside the "norms" of society. With the north node and PPP in Aquarius in the 7th what is the evolutionary intent for this soul?

This individual could try and create a very different/avant guard type of community in which all consensus values or philosophies that have come before would be totally discarded. Meaning it would seek people with innovative/creative ideas who are like minded and together could be able to construct its desired world.

At this stage the individual is in a state of total rebellion against the status quo. With this stage the individual will feel an existential void, seeking others who feel just the same and together they can share this existential void. This void is there until the individual understands and looses its deep fear of being swallowed by consensus society again. The individual fears loosing all its hard earned individuality if it integrates itself back into society with its new visions and ideas. Once the individual totally understands that the fear it feels is only fear it will re-integrate itself within the society and bring to the society its ideas.

The rebellion is such that there could be a repulsion towards anybody´s expectations that the individual would do anything external to itself , meaning that the individual would totally reject any outside pressure to be something else than it is.

Thank you, thank you Ari,
All the other quotes that you question about their relevance, have indeed no relevance at all, i greatly appreciate your kind teaching and can only thank you again.

 Namaste
rita









 
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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #141 on: Jun 09, 2014, 10:09 PM »

Hi Katherine and Rita, just wanted to touch base - I'll be responding to your posts tomorrow later in the day.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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rita
Member

Posts: 40


« Reply #142 on: Jun 10, 2014, 02:00 PM »

Hi Ari,
Reading over the corrections i can answer all of them if that is your wish, also, i  realized i did the wrong stage all together, please accept my apologies and during the week i will do second stage spiritual as you suggested.
thank you again for your wonderful dedication and care
namaste
rita
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ari moshe
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« Reply #143 on: Jun 10, 2014, 04:50 PM »

Hi Katherine,

Quote
If neither are in aspect i.e. the Pluto polarity point and north node are in effect,

The polarity point and north node would be in effect either no matter what.

For some reason I thought that the Soul is really wrapping up the dynamics of the SN/Pluto conjunction so it's really not flowing in the NN/PPP direction, until the second Saturn Return. (The water is on from the spigot, but not from the nozzle which creates a back pressure and the slowest drip, then whooosh! ...?)

Oh I missed what you said about aspects. Yes, that is consistent with Green's teaching: if there are no aspects to the north node then the soul can only move on to the north node by the 2nd Saturn return. I should note I don't know this totally through direct experience myself at this point.

With love
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #144 on: Jun 10, 2014, 05:09 PM »

Hi Rita,

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What is the core reason why this soul with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st would experience instinctual repulsion or attraction to another? What would this soul learn from the north node and polarity point?

One reason i dare venture think that repulsion could be felt with this configuration considering the first house, Aries would be that the individual is in a new cycle and all is new, being doubly narcissistic in nature. It would feel subconsciously very insecure, lack of confidence and would doubt itself when confronted by others on how they project their desires on to the others.

The psychology of attraction and repulsion stem from desire. The underlying desire within this soul would be for the freedom to actualize their own creative impulses. If they feel impeded or blocked by another (such as not being seen, appreciated, i their creative freedom is being blocked, or if they perceive competition) they they might feel repulsed by the other. If however another person would serve the furthering of the soul's desires (placing the soul in the position of the "leader", admiring the soul, or somehow creating an avenue for the soul to play out their instinctual desires through the other person) then there might be an attraction. The point within all of this is that the soul's relationship with others is oriented entirely around the personal self - not a true meeting of others.

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The evolutionary intent would be to embrace others by becoming more objective and listening to the other, taking their desires/needs into equal consideration.

By embracing the polarity point 7th house, it would accept its attraction to different types of people in which the individual could uniquely express its creativity and loose the subconscious fear of loosing its power to the other.It would also learn to share, and put the groups interests above its own, learning to be less subjective by applying equality / objectivity.

Excellent all true.

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If you'd like, take the following example and explain the evolutionary intent: A soul in the middle of the 2nd individuated with the sn and Pluto in Leo in the 1st. This soul may be very creative and talented in many ways. This soul, being well established in the 2nd individuated, will have a sense of community that is very much outside the "norms" of society. With the north node and PPP in Aquarius in the 7th what is the evolutionary intent for this soul?

This individual could try and create a very different/avant guard type of community in which all consensus values or philosophies that have come before would be totally discarded. Meaning it would seek people with innovative/creative ideas who are like minded and together could be able to construct its desired world.

At this stage the individual is in a state of total rebellion against the status quo. With this stage the individual will feel an existential void, seeking others who feel just the same and together they can share this existential void. This void is there until the individual understands and looses its deep fear of being swallowed by consensus society again. The individual fears loosing all its hard earned individuality if it integrates itself back into society with its new visions and ideas. Once the individual totally understands that the fear it feels is only fear it will re-integrate itself within the society and bring to the society its ideas.

The rebellion is such that there could be a repulsion towards anybody´s expectations that the individual would do anything external to itself , meaning that the individual would totally reject any outside pressure to be something else than it is.

What you described is accurate for 2nd stage individuated in general - for nearly any chart, however there wasn't much application to this particular chart. (And you did the correct stage too. After I suggested a practice with 2nd individuated, I also suggested one with 2nd spiritual in the next paragraph).

If you'd like, explain the evolutionary intent if this soul was in 2nd individuated (and/or 2nd spiritual). I'm happy to provide more guidance for that too if you'd like.

With love,
Ari Moshe
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fruitbat
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Posts: 14


« Reply #145 on: Jun 11, 2014, 04:15 AM »

Hi Ari and everyone,
   Just wanted to let you know I'll be replying by the end of the week- busy-ness abounds here this Gemini season.
                             Blessings to all,
                                            Mike
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fruitbat
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« Reply #146 on: Jun 12, 2014, 05:21 AM »

Pluto Polarity Point  House 2 Pisces
The evolutionary intent of the current life as symbolized in the birth chart by the Pluto Polarity Point is to become self reliant, to experience  having one's own values and resources, to create stability and peace in one's own life, to simplify one's life, to have faith and acceptance in what is rather than being in constant crisis/worry/ or a "something's wrong" mode, to learn to see the big picture rather than fussing over the details, and potential surrender to the universal Divine.
As the individual moves away from the potential resistance created from having his/her emotional security tied up with past evolutionary intentions as represented by Pluto in the Eighth House in Virgo, he/she will eventually make the choice to learn, grow, and evolve. This choice to evolve is represented by the North Node in the birth chart. The image is of taking the "high road" in this lifetime -thus opening up new possibilities/potential for the soul as opposing to staying resistant and being stuck in a  pattern or rut.


North Node House 2 Pisces
As the North Node  is in the same house and sign as the Pluto Polarity Point, any choices the individual makes to evolve toward becoming self reliant, toward creating self worth without relying on other people's values, toward simplification of life, toward seeing the big picture, toward creating stability and peace and surrendering to what is will lead toward amplified  manifestation of the current lifetime's evolutionary intent. This, in  a sense, beautifully crystallizes the simplification theme of the house and sign placement of the Polarity Point and the North Node. On the other hand, with Pluto and the South Node being located in the same house and sign the possibility of very strong resistance exists.   


Consensus       In the Consensus State, this soul would likely be focused on financial self reliance perhaps amassing resources of his/her own. This personwould likely grow though learning to value him/her self in relationship and through simple grounded acceptance of one's place in life/society.
Individuated  In the Individuated State, the soul will probably be focused on growth through self reliance and of creating strong and independent  values regardless of other people's values or mainstream ideas-basically maintaining independent stabilty and groundedness/inner peace irregardless of mainstream society.
Spiritual In the Spiritual State, the focus will become more and more about simplification,  simpification, simpification,   of humble acceptance of one's place in the big picture and faith as opposed to worry/doubt/guilt, of having one's own stable spiritual values,  and of gradually exhausting all separative desires and surrendering to the universal Divine. 
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ari moshe
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« Reply #147 on: Jun 13, 2014, 02:54 PM »

Hi Mike,

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Pluto Polarity Point  House 2 Pisces
The evolutionary intent of the current life as symbolized in the birth chart by the Pluto Polarity Point is to become self reliant, to experience  having one's own values and resources, to create stability and peace in one's own life, to simplify one's life, to have faith and acceptance in what is rather than being in constant crisis/worry/ or a "something's wrong" mode, to learn to see the big picture rather than fussing over the details, and potential surrender to the universal Divine.

Excellent, beautifully said.

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As the individual moves away from the potential resistance created from having his/her emotional security tied up with past evolutionary intentions as represented by Pluto in the Eighth House in Virgo, he/she will eventually make the choice to learn, grow, and evolve. This choice to evolve is represented by the North Node in the birth chart. The image is of taking the "high road" in this lifetime -thus opening up new possibilities/potential for the soul as opposing to staying resistant and being stuck in a  pattern or rut.


North Node House 2 Pisces
As the North Node  is in the same house and sign as the Pluto Polarity Point, any choices the individual makes to evolve toward becoming self reliant, toward creating self worth without relying on other people's values, toward simplification of life, toward seeing the big picture, toward creating stability and peace and surrendering to what is will lead toward amplified  manifestation of the current lifetime's evolutionary intent. This, in  a sense, beautifully crystallizes the simplification theme of the house and sign placement of the Polarity Point and the North Node. On the other hand, with Pluto and the South Node being located in the same house and sign the possibility of very strong resistance exists.   


Consensus       In the Consensus State, this soul would likely be focused on financial self reliance perhaps amassing resources of his/her own. This personwould likely grow though learning to value him/her self in relationship and through simple grounded acceptance of one's place in life/society.

Individuated  In the Individuated State, the soul will probably be focused on growth through self reliance and of creating strong and independent  values regardless of other people's values or mainstream ideas-basically maintaining independent stabilty and groundedness/inner peace irregardless of mainstream society.

Spiritual In the Spiritual State, the focus will become more and more about simplification,  simpification, simpification,   of humble acceptance of one's place in the big picture and faith as opposed to worry/doubt/guilt, of having one's own stable spiritual values,  and of gradually exhausting all separative desires and surrendering to the universal Divine.

Excellent Mike, all true and well said. You have a very articulate understanding of the core EA interpretive method.

The full scope of Pisces was not totally exemplified in your analysis of the evolutionary stages - in particular consensus and individuated. The essence of Pisces is surrender to Truth - and in that surrender a soul become a co-creative instrument with/of the divine. Of course the soul wont necessarily think of this process as surrender or in relationship to the divine. If you'd like, you are invited to examine this more fully here: what might it look like/ whats the intention with Pisces in the 2nd house in the various evolutionary stages? And it if feels helpful for you to do so, you can also pick a specific sub stage and flesh it out with more detail.
With love
Ari MOshe
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Wei
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Posts: 66


« Reply #148 on: Jun 14, 2014, 03:44 AM »

PPP in 8th house Aries

PPP in 8th house Aries would symbolize confronting limitations in intimate relationship, learn to share/trust/commit on soul level in independent relationship; Soul may learn to be in a partnership which each person have freedom and passion to persuit what they want in their own way, toghther fully develop their potential, let new experiences in. Deep metamorphosis experiences may happen through lose/betrayal/abandonment when souls are over fixed/refusing to evolve, intention is to break free from old relationship pattern, soul may forced to open up by a intense lover through power struggle, they'll learn to open up to other's value/motivation/feeling/desire, connect with others mentally, learn to be in a commitment relationship without losing oneself. Soul may also learn to merge with others deeply through karmic exchange in sex, be influenced on a unconscious level, may accelerate transformation (uncover a deeper emotional level).

Soul is likely to develop new psychology about human's value/self's value/openion about relationship, also regain power within themselves, share/transform their inner resources, encourage others to do the same, gain courage to embrace changes more instinctively, life would be more like adventure when they're older. Live life beyound basic needs/material comfort.

Soul would feel pull of desires to transform, continually need to break free from limitation, it's like butterfly, they will go through power/powerless, dead/reborn, constantly overcome feeling of insecure/fear, to open up to mysterious unconsious world, realise there are something more than physical world, be attracted to new experiences/to learn about deeper layer of oneself in every phase of their life.

NN in 10th house cancer relative to PPP

Soul may learn to be emotionally mature in career, take responsibility to fully develop their potential, they may have a job environment like family, which they need to take care of everyone's emotion, certain family pattern would repeat/project on business partner or co-workers. They will learn to go out to world with their inner security, to establish something, be master/successful in a career which they can feel emotionally fulfilled. When the self-confidence is built up, soul could be pioneer figure and have more courage to share/transform their inner resources/transformed value to benefit/nurture the whole society.

By growing up into adult life, soul need to balance their male/female energy, accept/give recognition to their inner gender, and nurture themselves in a way they need. In taking responsibility for cold/neglect/difficult emotional experiences in childhood, taking care of their emotional needs, complete/fully develop their inner identity, they will learn to connect to oneself deeply, form relationship/familial relationship reflect their emotionally reality, thus liberate from fixed relationship pattern/childhood displaced emotional needs, break free from a role defined by society/family. They will also develop capability to nurture others in intimate relationship, encourage others to find their inner resources, or raise their own kids, nurture them in a way they really need.

Saturn return would be significant transit for souls with NN in 10th, could bring chance to break free from childhood pattern, such as marriage, kids, relocation, career turning points.

I get stuck at evolutionary stage right now, i will think about it and post more next week.

Thank you so much for this oppotunity, i feel intense conflict between desires to evolve and repulse while i'm trying to write, which's exactly my own pluto/nodes lesson.
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2014, 04:56 AM by Wei » Logged
fruitbat
Member

Posts: 14


« Reply #149 on: Jun 14, 2014, 09:25 PM »

Thank you for your feedback Ari-
  I will certainly take your invitation to flesh out my descriptions of Pisces through the evolutionary stages. It will be a while before I get to it though as I'm heading to a music and arts festival at which I'll be gifting some evolutionary astrology readings. I so very much appreciate this opportunity to study with you.
                      Love and blessings and gratitude,
                                      Mike 
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