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ari moshe
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« Reply #150 on: Jun 16, 2014, 11:20 AM »

Hi Wei,

Quote
PPP in 8th house Aries would symbolize confronting limitations in intimate relationship, learn to share/trust/commit on soul level in independent relationship; Soul may learn to be in a partnership which each person have freedom and passion to persuit what they want in their own way, toghther fully develop their potential, let new experiences in. Deep metamorphosis experiences may happen through lose/betrayal/abandonment when souls are over fixed/refusing to evolve, intention is to break free from old relationship pattern, soul may forced to open up by a intense lover through power struggle, they'll learn to open up to other's value/motivation/feeling/desire, connect with others mentally, learn to be in a commitment relationship without losing oneself.


This is true except for connecting with others mentally.

Quote
Soul may also learn to merge with others deeply through karmic exchange in sex, be influenced on a unconscious level, may accelerate transformation (uncover a deeper emotional level).

Soul is likely to develop new psychology about human's value/self's value/openion about relationship, also regain power within themselves, share/transform their inner resources, encourage others to do the same, gain courage to embrace changes more instinctively, life would be more like adventure when they're older. Live life beyound basic needs/material comfort.

Soul would feel pull of desires to transform, continually need to break free from limitation, it's like butterfly, they will go through power/powerless, dead/reborn, constantly overcome feeling of insecure/fear, to open up to mysterious unconsious world, realise there are something more than physical world, be attracted to new experiences/to learn about deeper layer of oneself in every phase of their life.

What you wrote is accurate in terms of the nature of Aries in the 8th. I feel you can offer a bit more in terms of the polarity point. The polarity point is the evolutionary intention. If you were to summarize the evolutionary intention with the polarity point in Aries in the 8th what is the essence that you would come to? What you can think of are just a very small set of words that depics the essence of this evolutionary intention, almost like a mantra.

Quote
NN in 10th house cancer relative to PPP

Soul may learn to be emotionally mature in career, take responsibility to fully develop their potential, they may have a job environment like family, which they need to take care of everyone's emotion, certain family pattern would repeat/project on business partner or co-workers. They will learn to go out to world with their inner security, to establish something, be master/successful in a career which they can feel emotionally fulfilled. When the self-confidence is built up, soul could be pioneer figure and have more courage to share/transform their inner resources/transformed value to benefit/nurture the whole society.

By growing up into adult life, soul need to balance their male/female energy, accept/give recognition to their inner gender, and nurture themselves in a way they need. In taking responsibility for cold/neglect/difficult emotional experiences in childhood, taking care of their emotional needs, complete/fully develop their inner identity, they will learn to connect to oneself deeply, form relationship/familial relationship reflect their emotionally reality, thus liberate from fixed relationship pattern/childhood displaced emotional needs, break free from a role defined by society/family. They will also develop capability to nurture others in intimate relationship, encourage others to find their inner resources, or raise their own kids, nurture them in a way they really need.

Saturn return would be significant transit for souls with NN in 10th, could bring chance to break free from childhood pattern, such as marriage, kids, relocation, career turning points.

I get stuck at evolutionary stage right now, i will think about it and post more next week.

Thank you so much for this oppotunity, i feel intense conflict between desires to evolve and repulse while i'm trying to write, which's exactly my own pluto/nodes lesson.

Excellent work Wei. Everything you wrote is accurate. What I'm called to do is offer a couple focus questions for you to arrive at the essence for fully. Of course only if you feel this is supportive for you:

What would be the most challenging threat to the soul's deepest security in embracing the north node in the 10th (in other words, how does that threaten the security needs of natal Pluto)?
What is the soul letting go of in embracing the north node? (Again, look back at natal Pluto).

With love,
Ari Moshe
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Wei
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« Reply #151 on: Jun 17, 2014, 01:38 AM »

Thank you Ari! i will think about these questions and post later.
Love
Wei
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Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #152 on: Jun 17, 2014, 02:43 PM »

Hello,

Here's an attempt at NN Libra 11th and PPP Pisces 4th. The evolutionary states were tricky for me.

Thanks for your time, Ari Moshe, and the chance to practice!

-Emily


North Node Libra 11th House

With this placement, the soul is working on entering into relationships in a balanced way. Through detachment and observation the soul can see where it has perhaps been operating in a narcissistic manner, not respecting others needs or talents. The soul is learning to listen objectively to others; to learn to give to another what they actually need, and learning when not to give as well. They are learning to respond vs. react, by hearing what another is actually saying vs. hearing through their own, perhaps defensive, filter. Relative to Pluto in Virgo in the 10th house, the soul is learning how to link its previously developed talents to a socially relevant need, to be of service to others/the community. They are moving to a place of seeing the equality of all people, and their talents. That no one is more special than anyone else, including themselves. There could be feelings of being isolated from the community or receiving judgments, or placing judgments on others. The soul is learning to objectify the nature of these judgments and learning that their subjective reality is not the only reality. They will be able to objectively view their own conditioning, and own past behavior from a broader perspective. There is the potential to liberate from past conditioning, to enter into relationships as an equal, taking full responsibility for themselves, shifting blame and victimhood into self-knowledge and self-empowerment. There is a balance that can be achieved from the past experiences of both superiority and inferiority. The soul can also learn about itself from objective, non-judgmental comparison and contrast with others. Groups of like-mind may play a big role in helping this person evolve, or they may find themselves standing as a group of one, encouraging others to be individuals as well. The soul may join with others who share its ideals and share similar talents, forming a family (4th/10th) consisting of friends of like-mind. Gender switch is indicated here as well, and there can be perhaps be a shift to more of an equalization of the masculine and feminine energies within the soul.

Pluto Polarity Point Pisces 4th House

By embracing the north node, the soul will begin to open the places within its consciousness that have become overly rigid, judgmental, critical, authoritarian or otherwise unsupportive and in denial of unconditional love. The Virgo/Pisces axis may be expressed as a deeply conditioned identification with Judeo/Christian beliefs, which leave the soul with an underlying feeling of not being whole. Any shame or guilt the soul is holding onto (natural or conditioned) can begin to be softened and surrendered. Compassion towards oneself will lead to immense healing for the soul, as it metamorphosizes the soul's relationship with itself and with others. The soul will be invited to focus on family or closer emotional bonds with friends, shifting the identity away from the career as the main focus of the life. The work function may be seen as a vehicle for being of service to the whole on behalf of the creator in the spiritual state. The identity may be broadened to include more of a unity consciousness than one of negative comparison or competition.  The soul can open up to its own and other's vulnerability and sensitivity. Forgiveness is also indicated, of oneself, and others that the soul may feel victimized by.

Consensus:
The soul may gain a more objective perspective of its past via some form of traditional counselling. The potential religious/familial conditioning may not be acknowledged...? Or the soul may rebel against one group and form bonds with another that is more reflective of who it is.

Individuated:
The soul may take its need for freedom and self-actualization out into the world in a way that is very progressive, forming bonds with other progressive people. The soul may do a lot of work with regard to shedding old patterns and layers of conditioning. Alienation from family or from others in general could be a more likely theme in this evolutionary state, as the soul separates itself from its past/others in order to learn who it is beyond all of that.

Spiritual:
The soul will be bringing its talents to humanity in service to God. The talent will be seen as emanating from the soul. Growth will be seen as an opportunity to align the ego more closely with the soul. Any feedback from others that serves to gently humble the ego will be seen as helpful in this way. The soul may find a spiritually oriented community that feels like family.

« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2014, 05:56 AM by Emily » Logged
rita
Member

Posts: 40


« Reply #153 on: Jun 18, 2014, 07:04 AM »


Hi Ari and group

Second stage individuated
Pluto PP/ NN in Aquarius 7th house.

This individual is at the peek of its rebellion against the system, against its family values and will not conform to anything it does not relate to. The individual will follow one desire after another in its quest to know itself through comparison and contrast. It will periodically retreat upon itself so as to integrate all the new experiences it has lived through the last conflict / relationship with the other. In the relationship it will tend to focus primary on itself first, not taking into account the others needs, and not understanding when the other walks away from the relationship, accusing it of narcissism and being self centered.
This individual through contrast/compare and conflict with others will eventually understand the importance of listening to what the other is saying and the other will, through conflict, induce the individual to reflect upon its self centered attitudes. This will help the individual through the trauma it causes it, helping it  understand that it needs to be less subjective and become more objective about all its desires. Understanding that the others desires are as important as its own. It has through the shock and trauma caused by its me, me, me attitudes,  the desire to learn to be more objective as it realizes it will never know who it is / what it is, by remaining isolated.
The individual would educate and pass on to its children values totally out of the box, influencing its off spring to think independently from consensus values. These values would be in alignment to its own values and principles, maybe not accepting other values than its own. Anger, impatience and conflict would occur in the individual if the offspring / or others question its values, maybe threatening the individuals way of who it is / what it is and its deeper security.
The individual could be attracted by the way of life of a certain community and move in with them, rapidly trying to impose its ideas and making it all about itself.
 Once the individual understands and stops making it all about itself, becoming less subjective / self focussed and makes all its effort for the whole group / partner or others it will see that others will automatically come as others and not possible threats. It will  be able to integrate the SN  / NN PPP, as it realizes that its most unconscient fear of loss of freedom ( SN first )  if it commits to a long term relationship will no longer exist as it has understood, that to be as an equal in a team / relationship /friendship is more rewarding to have somebody to share with than for itself alone. It will realize by giving instead of wanting for itself that others come, want to be with the individual empowering it.
The individual will fulfill its evolutionary intent  what ever stage in its evolution it is in when it puts the others before itself and realize that its needs will be met, simply because it could objectify itself and put the others before itself.
To serve others before it serves itself.


Second stage spiritual NN/PPP in Aquarius.

At this stage the individual would already have experienced  / lived through some very revealing inner cosmic or universal experiences within its consciousness, making it believe that these inner cosmic experiences make it special, as it has this gift. The individual may be a spiritual leader and expect its disciples to bow at  the individual when saluting it. It may believe that it is more spiritual than it actually is, this said the individual could form some type of community under the false pretext that the individual is a messenger from God. Divinely enlightened by the little windows it has already perceived through its cosmic /universal inner experiences it has had. Big disillusionment will happen during its life when others show it that the power it believes to have is so relative so as to realize that it is only a messenger of God.
The individual could find itself in competition with its children´s spirituality. Advising them not to follow the other Guru but to come to him. This shows us that there is still the need to purge from its soul these subjective desires and work towards focussing its desires towards the path to return home.
The individual could leave its partner, in the pursuit of its spirituality, instead of giving the partner the choice to accompany it or not, putting its desire before others.
Follow a guru for a while, feel totally enlightened because a new veil may have been lifted in the individual consciousness. This gives the individual the desire to break away from that spiritual teacher, to go else where and apply on others the divine knowledge it thinks it has, as the individual believes that it has a spiritual special mission to fulfill on behalf of others.


Thank you Ari for your dedication and care,
namaste,
rita





 





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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #154 on: Jun 20, 2014, 12:50 PM »

Hi everyone, thank you all so much for your work. Just want to touch base, my body has needed rest this past week. I have not created the space to sit with the recent posts. I intend to be respond to all of your posts later this day and this weekend.
With much love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #155 on: Jun 21, 2014, 07:20 PM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
North Node Libra 11th House

With this placement, the soul is working on entering into relationships in a balanced way. Through detachment and observation the soul can see where it has perhaps been operating in a narcissistic manner, not respecting others needs or talents. The soul is learning to listen objectively to others; to learn to give to another what they actually need, and learning when not to give as well. They are learning to respond vs. react, by hearing what another is actually saying vs. hearing through their own, perhaps defensive, filter. Relative to Pluto in Virgo in the 10th house, the soul is learning how to link its previously developed talents to a socially relevant need, to be of service to others/the community. They are moving to a place of seeing the equality of all people, and their talents. That no one is more special than anyone else, including themselves.

This is all so well said and very insightful as a synthesis of these signatures.

Quote
There could be feelings of being isolated from the community or receiving judgments, or placing judgments on others. The soul is learning to objectify the nature of these judgments and learning that their subjective reality is not the only reality. They will be able to objectively view their own conditioning, and own past behavior from a broader perspective. There is the potential to liberate from past conditioning, to enter into relationships as an equal, taking full responsibility for themselves, shifting blame and victimhood into self-knowledge and self-empowerment. There is a balance that can be achieved from the past experiences of both superiority and inferiority. The soul can also learn about itself from objective, non-judgmental comparison and contrast with others. Groups of like-mind may play a big role in helping this person evolve, or they may find themselves standing as a group of one, encouraging others to be individuals as well. The soul may join with others who share its ideals and share similar talents, forming a family (4th/10th) consisting of friends of like-mind. Gender switch is indicated here as well, and there can be perhaps be a shift to more of an equalization of the masculine and feminine energies within the soul.

Pluto in the 10th implies only the possibility of gender switch, it doesn't mean it has actually happened.

Pluto Polarity Point Pisces 4th House

By embracing the north node, the soul will begin to open the places within its consciousness that have become overly rigid, judgmental, critical, authoritarian or otherwise unsupportive and in denial of unconditional love. The Virgo/Pisces axis may be expressed as a deeply conditioned identification with Judeo/Christian beliefs, which leave the soul with an underlying feeling of not being whole. Any shame or guilt the soul is holding onto (natural or conditioned) can begin to be softened and surrendered. Compassion towards oneself will lead to immense healing for the soul, as it metamorphosizes the soul's relationship with itself and with others. The soul will be invited to focus on family or closer emotional bonds with friends, shifting the identity away from the career as the main focus of the life. The work function may be seen as a vehicle for being of service to the whole on behalf of the creator in the spiritual state. The identity may be broadened to include more of a unity consciousness than one of negative comparison or competition.  The soul can open up to its own and other's vulnerability and sensitivity. Forgiveness is also indicated, of oneself, and others that the soul may feel victimized by.

Quote
Consensus:
The soul may gain a more objective perspective of its past via some form of traditional counselling. The potential religious/familial conditioning may not be acknowledged...? Or the soul may rebel against one group and form bonds with another that is more reflective of who it is.

This isn't necessarily about not acknowledging the religious/familiar conditioning. The main evolutionary lesson for this soul is to know their place in the world through the cooperation and connection with others of like mind; through relationship. And applying that in the consensus state means it will happen on that level. This soul will be learning about how to use their power in a way that is compassionate and supportive to others. They may come across lessons around communication, listening and gentleness. Where are some places/ what are some ways in which that might be learned?

Quote
Individuated:
The soul may take its need for freedom and self-actualization out into the world in a way that is very progressive, forming bonds with other progressive people. The soul may do a lot of work with regard to shedding old patterns and layers of conditioning. Alienation from family or from others in general could be a more likely theme in this evolutionary state, as the soul separates itself from its past/others in order to learn who it is beyond all of that.

This is true. If you'd like, what would the nn and polarity point point to for a soul in second stage individuated?

Quote
Spiritual:
The soul will be bringing its talents to humanity in service to God. The talent will be seen as emanating from the soul. Growth will be seen as an opportunity to align the ego more closely with the soul. Any feedback from others that serves to gently humble the ego will be seen as helpful in this way. The soul may find a spiritually oriented community that feels like family.

Again this is true. To flesh this out more, what might this look like for a soul in 2nd stage spiritual?

Emily, your understanding of Pluto polarity point and the nn is very clear. I feel you understand the core of this paradigm. Feel free to engage my questions as you feel is helpful for you.

Some more q's you may wish to explore:
In general, what does the archetypal gibbous phase between Pluto and the sn implies with this signature? What kind of parenting may they have experienced (specifically from father). What kind of karma might this soul have regarding past lives of having been a parent. How might this soul being a parent be a catalyst for evolution?

With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #156 on: Jun 21, 2014, 07:43 PM »

Hi Rita,

Quote
Hi Ari and group

Second stage individuated
Pluto PP/ NN in Aquarius 7th house.

This individual is at the peek of its rebellion against the system, against its family values and will not conform to anything it does not relate to. The individual will follow one desire after another in its quest to know itself through comparison and contrast. It will periodically retreat upon itself so as to integrate all the new experiences it has lived through the last conflict / relationship with the other. In the relationship it will tend to focus primary on itself first, not taking into account the others needs, and not understanding when the other walks away from the relationship, accusing it of narcissism and being self centered.

Excellent.

Quote
This individual through contrast/compare and conflict with others will eventually understand the importance of listening to what the other is saying and the other will, through conflict, induce the individual to reflect upon its self centered attitudes. This will help the individual through the trauma it causes it, helping it  understand that it needs to be less subjective and become more objective about all its desires. Understanding that the others desires are as important as its own. It has through the shock and trauma caused by its me, me, me attitudes,  the desire to learn to be more objective as it realizes it will never know who it is / what it is, by remaining isolated.

The individual would educate and pass on to its children values totally out of the box, influencing its off spring to think independently from consensus values. These values would be in alignment to its own values and principles, maybe not accepting other values than its own. Anger, impatience and conflict would occur in the individual if the offspring / or others question its values, maybe threatening the individuals way of who it is / what it is and its deeper security.

It's not about values - accepting them or questioning them. Leo in the 1st house is about an underlying self orientation. And so the main issue here would be not listening to or appreciating the actual individuality of the children.

Quote
The individual could be attracted by the way of life of a certain community and move in with them, rapidly trying to impose its ideas and making it all about itself.

Yes, however not it's "ideas". There can be a strong sense of purpose and activism that is inherently tied in with the need to be special, to be first, to be the leader. Thus the soul might have difficulty actually harmonizing with the group.

Also want to clarify regarding Aquarius, it's not about "moving in" with a community. Community just happens through resonance - and a soul can find itself in many different kinds of "circles" at the same time - many of them overlapping. Also, community can and does form through all kinds of contexts. For example: all of us here are a part of a community, and yet we mostly only interact through the internet.

Quote
Once the individual understands and stops making it all about itself, becoming less subjective / self focussed and makes all its effort for the whole group / partner or others it will see that others will automatically come as others and not possible threats.

Great point. The perception (Pluto) of threat (1st house) can be strong with this signature - especially in the paranoid 2nd stage individuated.

Quote
It will  be able to integrate the SN  / NN PPP, as it realizes that its most unconscient fear of loss of freedom ( SN first )  if it commits to a long term relationship will no longer exist as it has understood, that to be as an equal in a team / relationship /friendship is more rewarding to have somebody to share with than for itself alone. It will realize by giving instead of wanting for itself that others come, want to be with the individual empowering it.

The individual will fulfill its evolutionary intent  what ever stage in its evolution it is in when it puts the others before itself and realize that its needs will be met, simply because it could objectify itself and put the others before itself.
To serve others before it serves itself.

That last part was right on.

Quote
Second stage spiritual NN/PPP in Aquarius.

At this stage the individual would already have experienced  / lived through some very revealing inner cosmic or universal experiences within its consciousness, making it believe that these inner cosmic experiences make it special, as it has this gift. The individual may be a spiritual leader and expect its disciples to bow at  the individual when saluting it. It may believe that it is more spiritual than it actually is, this said the individual could form some type of community under the false pretext that the individual is a messenger from God. Divinely enlightened by the little windows it has already perceived through its cosmic /universal inner experiences it has had. Big disillusionment will happen during its life when others show it that the power it believes to have is so relative so as to realize that it is only a messenger of God.

The individual could find itself in competition with its children´s spirituality. Advising them not to follow the other Guru but to come to him. This shows us that there is still the need to purge from its soul these subjective desires and work towards focussing its desires towards the path to return home.
The individual could leave its partner, in the pursuit of its spirituality, instead of giving the partner the choice to accompany it or not, putting its desire before others.

"Pursuit of spirituality" has more of a Sag resonance.

Quote
Follow a guru for a while, feel totally enlightened because a new veil may have been lifted in the individual consciousness. This gives the individual the desire to break away from that spiritual teacher, to go else where and apply on others the divine knowledge it thinks it has, as the individual believes that it has a spiritual special mission to fulfill on behalf of others.

All that is true as a possible expression of this signature. The soul can also be incredibly open hearted and generous in its giving - however the giving will not reflect what other soul's need, but rather what the soul projects onto others according to its own self interest. Thus the soul will be learning to truly listen to others as equals.

Excellent work Rita, I feel you got the core of these two signatures.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #157 on: Jun 21, 2014, 07:55 PM »

Hi Mike, Wei, Rita, Emily and Katherine,
Thank you all so much for your efforts and contribution. And thank you for your patience with me. I am so grateful for this opportunity to share this space with you. Thank you for allowing for me this opportunity for my own soul growth.

I'm going to wait a bit for anyone else who intends to post to do so. Later next week we will begin by adding the rulers of the nodes! If anyone has any creative suggestions for how to go about doing that please feel free to offer them here.
With love
Ari Moshe
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Katherine
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Posts: 66


« Reply #158 on: Jun 23, 2014, 04:00 AM »

Hi Ari,
Likewise. I am not content with what I have for this installment.
Working on it... I'll post whatever I can patch up by week's end.

Thank you and,
God bless,
Katherine
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Emily
Member

Posts: 41


« Reply #159 on: Jun 24, 2014, 03:25 PM »

Hi Ari Moshe,

Thank you for your response and for the follow up questions. They are very helpful and I appreciate the opportunity to go deeper into these signatures. I just typed up a response to all of your questions and lost the whole thing. I'm not sure I have time to do this all over again before we move on, but I may.

Namaste,
Emily
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Emily
Member

Posts: 41


« Reply #160 on: Jun 27, 2014, 08:47 AM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
North Node Libra 11th House

With this placement, the soul is working on entering into relationships in a balanced way. Through detachment and observation the soul can see where it has perhaps been operating in a narcissistic manner, not respecting others needs or talents. The soul is learning to listen objectively to others; to learn to give to another what they actually need, and learning when not to give as well. They are learning to respond vs. react, by hearing what another is actually saying vs. hearing through their own, perhaps defensive, filter. Relative to Pluto in Virgo in the 10th house, the soul is learning how to link its previously developed talents to a socially relevant need, to be of service to others/the community. They are moving to a place of seeing the equality of all people, and their talents. That no one is more special than anyone else, including themselves.

This is all so well said and very insightful as a synthesis of these signatures.

Quote
There could be feelings of being isolated from the community or receiving judgments, or placing judgments on others. The soul is learning to objectify the nature of these judgments and learning that their subjective reality is not the only reality. They will be able to objectively view their own conditioning, and own past behavior from a broader perspective. There is the potential to liberate from past conditioning, to enter into relationships as an equal, taking full responsibility for themselves, shifting blame and victimhood into self-knowledge and self-empowerment. There is a balance that can be achieved from the past experiences of both superiority and inferiority. The soul can also learn about itself from objective, non-judgmental comparison and contrast with others. Groups of like-mind may play a big role in helping this person evolve, or they may find themselves standing as a group of one, encouraging others to be individuals as well. The soul may join with others who share its ideals and share similar talents, forming a family (4th/10th) consisting of friends of like-mind. Gender switch is indicated here as well, and there can be perhaps be a shift to more of an equalization of the masculine and feminine energies within the soul.

Pluto in the 10th implies only the possibility of gender switch, it doesn't mean it has actually happened.

Pluto Polarity Point Pisces 4th House

By embracing the north node, the soul will begin to open the places within its consciousness that have become overly rigid, judgmental, critical, authoritarian or otherwise unsupportive and in denial of unconditional love. The Virgo/Pisces axis may be expressed as a deeply conditioned identification with Judeo/Christian beliefs, which leave the soul with an underlying feeling of not being whole. Any shame or guilt the soul is holding onto (natural or conditioned) can begin to be softened and surrendered. Compassion towards oneself will lead to immense healing for the soul, as it metamorphosizes the soul's relationship with itself and with others. The soul will be invited to focus on family or closer emotional bonds with friends, shifting the identity away from the career as the main focus of the life. The work function may be seen as a vehicle for being of service to the whole on behalf of the creator in the spiritual state. The identity may be broadened to include more of a unity consciousness than one of negative comparison or competition.  The soul can open up to its own and other's vulnerability and sensitivity. Forgiveness is also indicated, of oneself, and others that the soul may feel victimized by.

Quote
Consensus:
The soul may gain a more objective perspective of its past via some form of traditional counselling. The potential religious/familial conditioning may not be acknowledged...? Or the soul may rebel against one group and form bonds with another that is more reflective of who it is.

This isn't necessarily about not acknowledging the religious/familiar conditioning. The main evolutionary lesson for this soul is to know their place in the world through the cooperation and connection with others of like mind; through relationship. And applying that in the consensus state means it will happen on that level. This soul will be learning about how to use their power in a way that is compassionate and supportive to others. They may come across lessons around communication, listening and gentleness. Where are some places/ what are some ways in which that might be learned?

Quote
Individuated:
The soul may take its need for freedom and self-actualization out into the world in a way that is very progressive, forming bonds with other progressive people. The soul may do a lot of work with regard to shedding old patterns and layers of conditioning. Alienation from family or from others in general could be a more likely theme in this evolutionary state, as the soul separates itself from its past/others in order to learn who it is beyond all of that.

This is true. If you'd like, what would the nn and polarity point point to for a soul in second stage individuated?

Quote
Spiritual:
The soul will be bringing its talents to humanity in service to God. The talent will be seen as emanating from the soul. Growth will be seen as an opportunity to align the ego more closely with the soul. Any feedback from others that serves to gently humble the ego will be seen as helpful in this way. The soul may find a spiritually oriented community that feels like family.

Again this is true. To flesh this out more, what might this look like for a soul in 2nd stage spiritual?

Emily, your understanding of Pluto polarity point and the nn is very clear. I feel you understand the core of this paradigm. Feel free to engage my questions as you feel is helpful for you.

Some more q's you may wish to explore:
In general, what does the archetypal gibbous phase between Pluto and the sn implies with this signature? What kind of parenting may they have experienced (specifically from father). What kind of karma might this soul have regarding past lives of having been a parent. How might this soul being a parent be a catalyst for evolution?

With love,
Ari Moshe


Hi,

I'm not sure how to insert text and use the quote function here, so please forgive this format. Here are my responses to the questions posed above. Again thank you for these prompts to explore more deeply.

Namaste,
Emily


Some places and ways the soul might learn about communication, listening and gentleness could be in a work setting, as a manger for example, instead of being authoritarian, the soul may find that people are more cooperative with a softer tone and more active listening. As a parent the soul would encounter the need to listen to children and their needs, and to be gentle with them. This could also be learned with friends, people being alienated by a more aggressive way of communicating, and in more intimate connections where softness is encouraged. It could also even be learned with a pet, where it is learned that gentleness receives a more desirable response.

In the second stage individuated the soul will be wanting to hold on very tightly to the individuality it has gained. There may be difficulty integrating the talents and gifts the soul has to offer into society. The soul may be a group of one at this stage, taking a big step back from others to decondition further from consensus/family values, beliefs and traditions. This is a soul that may find itself on the fringes of society, alone or with others of like-mind. The soul may be very judgmental of those living in consensus society, of government etc. There could also be a radicalization taking place around relationships. The soul could be opening up to a radical kind of self-compassion and compassion for others, in stark contrast to the competitive element of patriarchal living. There could be healing around a strong sense of victimization, blaming others for feelings of alienation. This could also be a talented artist.

In the second stage spiritual the soul may be overly attached to its role as some sort of spiritual leader. There could be a dependency on receiving validation from others/followers. The soul will be learning to relate to others in a more equal way. And learn to give from a place of pure compassion and love, without seeking something for itself in the giving. There is the potential to encounter lessons of humility, potentially through its role in society. The soul will be learning to listen through its service to others, through relationship and through family. There could be a progressive withdrawal from the public eye, or at least an internal detachment from the social role, surrendering more of the ego to will of God.

The SN and Pluto Gibbous phase indicates that the soul has been through/is going through a process of spiritualizing and humbling the ego. With Pluto in Virgo in the 10th and the SN in Aries in the 5th House, does this imply that the soul is humbling based on those SN actions? Or does the humbling implied by Pluto 6th come prior to those times? The gibbous phase is Virgo-like in nature, so the soul would have been receiving feedback that allowed it re-adjust its mode of relating and of actualizing its purpose in a way that serves others, that is not overly self-oriented. The soul is wanting to purge itself of a narcissistic self-image. There will be guilt linked to prior life behavior and this will need to be looked at in order to move forward. The soul has also been learning to look more deeply at itself as a response to going through crisis and being left with a desire to understand why such crises took place.

This soul’s father could have been very critical, judgmental, have held high standards, or been absent. There could have been abuse. There could have also been strong religious conditioning coming from the father figure. There could have been a lack of validation or love from the father, or the father expecting the child to follow closely in his own footsteps.

The karma the soul might have regarding being a parent could be similar, having been neglectful of the responsibilities of raising children, having been very strict or critical. There could have been power struggles of some sort with the children, feeling threatened by their uniqueness and specialness. There could have been abandonment, or separation based on feeling that the soul’s freedom was restricted by the children.

Being a parent might be a catalyst for evolution for this soul by giving them an opportunity to focus on something other than their work. Children would invite more emotional involvement, nurturing and compassion. Having children would be a way to channel their co-creativeness and special destiny in a way that serves others in a loving way. Children would ask the soul to practice patience, and detached compassion – feeling for their children but being separate from them. They would also learn to listen to the child to give them what they need.


« Last Edit: Jun 27, 2014, 10:26 AM by Emily » Logged
Katherine
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Posts: 66


« Reply #161 on: Jun 30, 2014, 05:44 AM »

PPP & NN Libra/7th
The Soul has chosen to evolve and shift consciously from the perspective of an exclusively singular orientation toward an orientation that considers others.  
The frontier of relationship (or just relatedness) has the allure of the new, the vibration of potential energy. So, there is the access point of evolution: pushing the leading-edge of becoming both consciously and unconsciously through connection with other individuals.  However, propulsion into the unknown interrupts the momentum of self-consistency and ultimately threatens the Soul’s deepest sense of security.
The beginning stages of this shift will not immediately end up in the outer reaches of the Libra archetype of boundaryless-ness, co-dependent, enmeshed confusion, etc. Initially, the extremes function from the well practiced energy of Aries. The tendencies are to cyclically retreat or dominate.  Self-preservation has been firmly enforced during lives where the individual’s essential need for freedom was triggered/ jeopardized via e.g. entrapment- inconjunct to Scorpio/8th, oppression- Capricorn/10th, and repression- from Cancer/4th.  As the Soul begins to open toward others, this can feel like a sudden attraction, repulsion, or combination of.  (Awareness flashes through the primary brain and gut level.)  Commonly, this will switch, or flip-flop. Open up to someone (1, and 1, now 2) invites comparison. Once comparison is made the individual will never be the same, they have been impacted. New awareness may feel like an invasion of thought, as choice is mandatory: continue as before, or change. The thoughts (and source/persons) could be rejected or embraced on the basis the individual finds it/them freeing. Regardless or the particular choice, other perspectives of being compel the Soul to assess their own desires.
Sexual union contrasts the polarity of solitude. The physical and energetic bodies sharing intimate space provides an intensity of contact that does not inherently require much intellectual thought, verbal communication, or the attendant issues of conjuring the right words, filtering feelings/ emotions, and navigating societal norms of what is/is not appropriate to share.  Sex can become an outlet for physical and psycho-spiritual stress as the individual acclimates to other ways of relating.
Stepping in further toward the other, the individual recognizes that everyone has their own matrix of needs, their own hinterland between the known/security and the unknown/insecurity, whether or not there is any resonance. There could be a zeal (fire element of enthusiasm and passion) to share oneself escalating into imposing their way simply because another is open to it and allowing the space (air). The extreme is domination, setting off cycles of power struggles.  First-hand experience utilizing focus and presence aids in the capacity to listen. The practice of listening contributes to patience and evaluation.  
...
still working.

Thank you, Ari.
God bless,
Katherine
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2014, 02:01 PM by Katherine » Logged
ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #162 on: Jun 30, 2014, 06:53 PM »

Hi Emily and Katherine. Thank you for your posts. Just want to touch base - I'll be responding to your posts tomorrow.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #163 on: Jun 30, 2014, 11:57 PM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
Some places and ways the soul might learn about communication, listening and gentleness could be in a work setting, as a manger for example, instead of being authoritarian, the soul may find that people are more cooperative with a softer tone and more active listening. As a parent the soul would encounter the need to listen to children and their needs, and to be gentle with them. This could also be learned with friends, people being alienated by a more aggressive way of communicating, and in more intimate connections where softness is encouraged. It could also even be learned with a pet, where it is learned that gentleness receives a more desirable response.

In the second stage individuated the soul will be wanting to hold on very tightly to the individuality it has gained. There may be difficulty integrating the talents and gifts the soul has to offer into society. The soul may be a group of one at this stage, taking a big step back from others to decondition further from consensus/family values, beliefs and traditions. This is a soul that may find itself on the fringes of society, alone or with others of like-mind. The soul may be very judgmental of those living in consensus society, of government etc. There could also be a radicalization taking place around relationships. The soul could be opening up to a radical kind of self-compassion and compassion for others, in stark contrast to the competitive element of patriarchal living. There could be healing around a strong sense of victimization, blaming others for feelings of alienation. This could also be a talented artist.

Excellent, all true. To point out the nn and polarity point connection a bit more more fully I want to add that the polarity point of Pisces in the 4th might be activated here by way of the soul finding itself in community: learning to share/give on equal terms and to take care of and care for one another as opposed to what can otherwise be a very self isolating, competitive way of living as well as a tendency to feel victimized/burned down/oppressed/blocked.

In this stage the soul will be learning to focus on the needs of the group, not just its own self and its own self importance. Evolution would proceed as the soul learns the skills of cooperation and listening. That would eventually take the soul to the 3rd stage in which it can actually contribute its full individuality to society.

Quote
In the second stage spiritual the soul may be overly attached to its role as some sort of spiritual leader. There could be a dependency on receiving validation from others/followers. The soul will be learning to relate to others in a more equal way. And learn to give from a place of pure compassion and love, without seeking something for itself in the giving. There is the potential to encounter lessons of humility, potentially through its role in society. The soul will be learning to listen through its service to others, through relationship and through family. There could be a progressive withdrawal from the public eye, or at least an internal detachment from the social role, surrendering more of the ego to will of God.

Since the sn is in Aries in the 5th there would not be a dependency on receiving validation from others/followers. Rather this soul will just know itself as a defacto leader type person and will magnetize/attract others who are drawn to follow this soul. Everything else you wrote is accurate.

Quote
The SN and Pluto Gibbous phase indicates that the soul has been through/is going through a process of spiritualizing and humbling the ego. With Pluto in Virgo in the 10th and the SN in Aries in the 5th House, does this imply that the soul is humbling based on those SN actions? Or does the humbling implied by Pluto 6th come prior to those times?

The gibbous phase is Virgo-like in nature, so the soul would have been receiving feedback that allowed it re-adjust its mode of relating and of actualizing its purpose in a way that serves others, that is not overly self-oriented. The soul is wanting to purge itself of a narcissistic self-image. There will be guilt linked to prior life behavior and this will need to be looked at in order to move forward. The soul has also been learning to look more deeply at itself as a response to going through crisis and being left with a desire to understand why such crises took place.

Excellent, the last paragraph was right on. The gibbous phase will imply that the soul is learning to create self reflection. Virgo in the chart often correlates to where the soul is learning lessons in self accuracy and humility. Thus it is often the case that there was a lack of that in prior lives. Virgo in the 10th through the filter of Aries in the 5th may imply a soul that thought everything that it did was right and deemed itself appropriate to have total control. This of course may have lead (or will lead) to a crisis which then would create a sense of guilt, and possibly self doubt. The self doubt would be totally debilating because of the strong instinctual urges - thus this soul might often experience a strong impulse to act and do but also be held back by a deep uncertainty of itself.

Quote
This soul’s father could have been very critical, judgmental, have held high standards, or been absent. There could have been abuse. There could have also been strong religious conditioning coming from the father figure. There could have been a lack of validation or love from the father, or the father expecting the child to follow closely in his own footsteps.

Great, I see those possibilities too. Also unreasonable expectations to be something great/important. The soul might feel a core impossibility of being the great leader/successful whatever that its father is "training" it to be - thus creating a sense of inferiority/inadequacy.

The karma the soul might have regarding being a parent could be similar, having been neglectful of the responsibilities of raising children, having been very strict or critical. There could have been power struggles of some sort with the children, feeling threatened by their uniqueness and specialness. There could have been abandonment, or separation based on feeling that the soul’s freedom was restricted by the children.

Being a parent might be a catalyst for evolution for this soul by giving them an opportunity to focus on something other than their work. Children would invite more emotional involvement, nurturing and compassion. Having children would be a way to channel their co-creativeness and special destiny in a way that serves others in a loving way. Children would ask the soul to practice patience, and detached compassion – feeling for their children but being separate from them. They would also learn to listen to the child to give them what they need.

Excellent Emily, I feel you understand the essence of this EA signature very well. Thank you for your work.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
Most Active Member
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #164 on: Jul 01, 2014, 01:33 AM »

Quote
PPP & NN Libra/7th
The Soul has chosen to evolve and shift consciously from the perspective of an exclusively singular orientation toward an orientation that considers others. The frontier of relationship (or just relatedness) has the allure of the new, the vibration of potential energy. So, there is the access point of evolution: pushing the leading-edge of becoming both consciously and unconsciously through connection with other individuals. However, propulsion into the unknown interrupts the momentum of self-consistency and ultimately threatens the Soul’s deepest sense of security.

Every sentence feels like a very well crafted, distilled articulation of the essence of this soul's inner experience of evolution.

Quote
The beginning stages of this shift will not immediately end up in the outer reaches of the Libra archetype of boundaryless-ness, co-dependent, enmeshed confusion, etc.

"Boundaryless-ness" as an archetype is Pisces (and water in general) whereas "boundary" is Capricorn (and earth in general).

Quote
Initially, the extremes function from the well practiced energy of Aries. The tendencies are to cyclically retreat or dominate.  Self-preservation has been firmly enforced during lives where the individual’s essential need for freedom was triggered/ jeopardized via e.g. entrapment- inconjunct to Scorpio/8th, oppression- Capricorn/10th, and repression- from Cancer/4th.


That's accurate except Cancer doesn't by itself represent repression, that too is Capricorn.

Quote
As the Soul begins to open toward others, this can feel like a sudden attraction, repulsion, or combination of.  (Awareness flashes through the primary brain and gut level.)  Commonly, this will switch, or flip-flop. Open up to someone (1, and 1, now 2) invites comparison. Once comparison is made the individual will never be the same, they have been impacted. New awareness may feel like an invasion of thought, as choice is mandatory: continue as before, or change. The thoughts (and source/persons) could be rejected or embraced on the basis the individual finds it/them freeing. Regardless or the particular choice, other perspectives of being compel the Soul to assess their own desires.

Sexual union contrasts the polarity of solitude. The physical and energetic bodies sharing intimate space provides an intensity of contact that does not inherently require much intellectual thought, verbal communication, or the attendant issues of conjuring the right words, filtering feelings/ emotions, and navigating societal norms of what is/is not appropriate to share.  Sex can become an outlet for physical and psycho-spiritual stress as the individual acclimates to other ways of relating.

Navigating social norms of what is/is not appropriate to share is Capricorn. Sex as an outlet for physical and psycho spiritual stress also feels more earth sign related.

Quote
Stepping in further toward the other, the individual recognizes that everyone has their own matrix of needs, their own hinterland between the known/security and the unknown/insecurity, whether or not there is any resonance. There could be a zeal (fire element of enthusiasm and passion) to share oneself escalating into imposing their way simply because another is open to it and allowing the space (air). The extreme is domination, setting off cycles of power struggles.  First-hand experience utilizing focus and presence aids in the capacity to listen. The practice of listening contributes to patience and evaluation. 
...
still working.

What else might the nn/ppp in the 7th house soul be learning through sexual intimacy?

Excellent Katherine. I really appreciate the quality of presence and attention you are offering to this signature and how that expresses through your writing. Of course you are welcome to continue to deepen this however you wish.

With love,
Ari Moshe
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