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« Reply #45 on: Aug 27, 2014, 07:45 AM »

Hi Linda, Skywalker, Kristin, and Cat

Linda: that will be fine of course. We will begin work tomorrow: Thursday.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #46 on: Aug 28, 2014, 07:19 AM »

Hi Linda, Skywalker, Kristin, and Cat....

Ok, so let's begin again. Before we focus on the career/ work correlations of Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House let's continue on for a bit on the correlation of how these archetypes condition all the other archetypes within a birth chart. The examples that you have given with Saturn in Leo and now that would condition the nature of the Soul's consciousness were really excellent.

So now let's take this a step further. Let's put Saturn in a sign and aspect to another planet in order to demonstrate how that Saturn by sign would condition that other planet within it's own sign.

As per Skywalker's suggestion feel free to choose any sign for Saturn and the planet that it is aspecting. Please feel free to choose any aspect for your illustration that you wish.

Let's make our due date for this next Thursday: September 4th.

If you have any questions please ask them now.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #47 on: Sep 03, 2014, 11:03 PM »

Hi Rad,

I've checked with Cat and Skywalker, and the three

of us would appreciate a little more time (a few more

days) to complete this assignment.

Thanks so much.

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« Reply #48 on: Sep 04, 2014, 04:37 AM »

Hi Rad and group,

Sorry, like Linda said, I do need a few more days to complete this assignment. I´m aiming for Monday.

Sorry again for the delay.

All the best
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« Reply #49 on: Sep 04, 2014, 04:45 AM »

Hi Linda, Cat, Skywalker, and Kristin.......

Sure, fine with me. Let's go with Thursday of next week then.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #50 on: Sep 05, 2014, 05:35 AM »

Thanks Rad.  Cheesy
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« Reply #51 on: Sep 10, 2014, 12:30 AM »


The orbits for Saturn and Uranus are 29.5 years for Saturn and 84 years for Uranus. These two planets meet every 45.3 years at the original conjunction to establish a new social order and structure, Saturn, through the revolutionary impulse of Uranus. Saturn rules Capricorn while both Saturn and Uranus rule Aquarius: Air (ideas) impacting and changing Earth (material reality). As these planets move very slowly, when they form a conjunction or opposition their effect on humanity can be “earth-shattering.” Saturn forms a bridge between the material consciousness, physical world or structural reality – the established order, rules, customs, laws, stability, security, systems, organizational processes, authoritative regimes – and the higher consciousness embodied by Uranus – change, new ideas, revolution, liberty, justice, awakening, objectivity, de-conditioning, individuation. These planets have both an individual and collective application.

On an individual level, Saturn correlates with the structural nature of the Soul’s consciousness in each life, that which everyone is consciously aware of. There is a natural boundary between what we are conscious of, Saturn, and what we are not conscious of: the individuated unconscious, Uranus, and the collective consciousness/unconsciousness, Neptune. The Soul creates different types of Saturnian “realities” in each of its lives necessary for its evolution. Examples of Saturnian realities that each Soul chooses for each life: ancestry, nationality, political system, economic status, social function, gender, parents, conditioning by family and society.

The totality of all prior lives, the “known” realities that had been created by the Soul, provides the context or reason to break free of the crystallization of those prior lives through the impulse of Uranus – bringing accelerated evolution, radical transformation, sudden change, de-conditioning, shattering, fracturing, trauma – wherever it is found in the chart, in order to re-integrate the wholeness of the Soul. Uranian people desire to join groups of like-minded friends that challenge society’s outworn structures by sharing new patterns of thought, ideals and aspirations, and putting them into action. Uranian leaders are either feared as revolutionaries or admired as reformers. According to Rudhyar, under the influence of Uranus, individuals or groups can become focusing agents which constitute the next step for humanity.

Uranus in aspect to Saturn brings novelty, newness and originality to the structures of Saturn, thus radically changing and expanding them. From the point of view of the collective, Saturn is always surrendering to Uranus because of the individuating needs of Uranus. In tense opposition aspects there can be a tug-of-war (or dance) between the consciousness constantly rebelling, and individual expression being stifled. With harmonious aspects such as the trine and sextile, change becomes easier to implement. The individual will evolve more easily because the objectivity gained will naturally harmonize with what Saturn is trying to restructure.

SATURN-URANUS CYCLE – Conjunction 1942, Opposition 1964, Culmination 1988

The previous Saturn-Uranus conjunction in Taurus (survival) in 1942 prompted WWII, the deadliest conflict in human history, which altered the political alignment and social structure of the world. With the opposition in 1964, Saturn in Pisces opposite Uranus in Virgo (conjunct Pluto), came a radical social revolution in values (Taurus), the Peace Movement, that combined with the powerful force of Pluto to foster international cooperation and the prevention of future conflicts. (In 1966 the world experienced the intensity of the revolutionary Uranus/Pluto conjunction at 16° 20' Virgo with its far-reaching global effects into the present, Uranus/Pluto square 2012-15.)

"The Sixties” describes the counterculture revolution in social norms about clothing, music, drugs, dress, sexuality, racism, sexism, formalities, and schooling. Conservatives denounce the decade as one of irresponsible excess, flamboyance, and decay of social order. The 1960s became synonymous with the new, radical, and subversive events and trends of the period. This was described as an era in the classical Jungian nightmare cycle, where a rigid culture, unable to contain the demands for greater individual freedom, broke free of the social constraints of the previous age through extreme deviation from the norm.[1]

Saturn-Uranus opposition 1964 - historical events[2]

•   Beatles become popular in US.
•   Civil Rights Act passes in US.
•   32 African countries gain independence from European colonial rulers.
•   Nelson Mandela sentenced to life in prison.
•   Los Angeles riots.
•   Miniskirt first appears.
•   New York City great blackout.
•   Rolling Stones’ Mega Hit Song, “I Can’t Get No Satisfaction.” [Satisfaction correlates to Saturn]
•   US Sends troops to Vietnam.

SATURN-URANUS CYCLE – Conjunction 1988, Opposition 2008, Culmination 2032

Saturn-Uranus conjunction 1988

The next Saturn-Uranus conjunction took place in 1988 at 29° 55′ Sagittarius conjunct the Galactic Centre. Responses to the evolutionary necessities of the cycle are expressed differently according to the states of evolution:  

(1) Consensus (correlating to Saturn): the distortion of Natural Laws. The individuals within this evolutionary condition will usually continue to interpret life according to crystallized distorted core beliefs, values and moralities that are a mere extension of societal norms. They wish to remain in the security and familiarity of the past, even if those structures have become dysfunctional. They abhor change and seek security and stability. They don’t seriously question what they are told to believe. For example, many will still believe that animals are to be exploited and are on a lower evolutionary scale than humans. Due to the atrophied structure of their consciousness, people in this evolutionary condition will resist the evolutionary necessity to change (Uranus) their existing reality (Saturn). This resistance usually leads to cataclysmic events that force change. Distorted beliefs and lies about oneself and others can occur from the consensus state forward.

(2) Individuated (correlating to Uranus): the expansion of awareness. The individuals within this evolutionary condition are characterized by independence in their thinking, beliefs, philosophies, and the ways they understand life. They desire to rebel and liberate from Consensus conditioning. They love change and easily embrace new ideas. Therefore, due to the progressively expanding structure of their consciousness, they will bring about personal and collective evolutionary change through rebellion, revolution, reformation, differentness, inventiveness, and ingenuity. The breaking free from consensus beliefs and lies not rooted in the actual truth of Natural Laws can begin as early as the 1st stage individuated. The wholesale collapse of consensus lies can happen at the 2nd stage individuated.

(3) Spiritual (correlating to Neptune): the expansion of consciousness into the Universal. Individuals within this evolutionary condition are aware of the Natural Laws that correlate to the nature of creation. Their interpretation of life according to natural beliefs and truths will reflect a natural, ethical and compassionate way of life. They will embrace the Natural Law of Diversity and cooperate with change as a path toward final liberation into the Universal.

The Saturn-Uranus cycle that began in 1988 at 29° 55′ Sagittarius conjunct the Galactic Centre conjunct Mars-Moon in Sagittarius. Saturn-Uranus then moved into Capricorn where they created a stellium with transiting Neptune. The Saturn-Uranus conjunction in late Sagittarius activated the Uranian impulse to break free from Saturnian interpretations of life (Sagittarius) that were based on distorted beliefs and lies, in order to reinstate a way of life based on Natural Laws. The original evolutionary intention challenged outworn structures in the areas of multiculturalism, foreign relations, religion, philosophy, politics, law, education, medicine, the economy, human rights, and the environment. Many religious and philosophical views started to undergo transformation. While this period released fanatical attitudes, it also facilitated a new social vision to be presented to the world.

In the 1980s and 1990s, the halls of learning changed to an on-line computer environment when American business magnate, Bill Gates, started the personal computer revolution. In the early years he began as an active software developer, but for most of Microsoft's history his role was primarily a management and executive role. Gates was pronounced number one on the Forbes list of world's richest people from 1995 to 2007, and in 1999 briefly reached "centibillionaire" status. Microsoft launched its first retail version of Microsoft Windows in 1985. In 1986 Microsoft went public, and in 1989 introduced its most successful office product, Microsoft Office.

Major changes in the structure of higher education took place when students suddenly began taking out loans and going into debt just to get a degree. Educators and students learned to utilize the new resources of the on-line learning and social networking environment.

Many radical Saturn-Uranus world events[3] (1988 original conjunction) would shape an entire 45 year social generation:

•   Benazir Bhutto, first Islamic woman prime minister, chosen to lead Pakistan.
•   Supreme Court rules Rotary Clubs must admit women.
•   Prime Minister Thatcher wins rare third term in Britain.

•   Polish communist government legitimizes the Solidarity trade union movement.
•   George Herbert Walker Bush inaugurated as 41st U.S. president.
•   Mikhail S. Gorbachev named Soviet president.

•   Severe earthquake strikes Los Angeles, leaving 100 injured and six dead.
•   Most severe La Niña weather effect in history.
•   Biggest oil spill in history.

•   “Black Monday” stock market crash.
•   Economic restructuring in the Soviet Union “Perestroika.”

•   World athletics championships (boxing Mike Tyson, tennis Steffi Graf, golf Gary Player,
        basketball Michael Jordan).
•   Summer Olympics in Seoul, South-Korea; Ben Johnson caught for steroids after setting
        a World Record in the 100 meter dash.

Trade and International relations
•   US and Canada reach free trade agreement.
•   US advertising is permitted on Soviet TV.
•   World's longest undersea tunnel is completed.
•   McDonalds in the USSR.
•   After 28 years, Berlin Wall is open to the West.
•   Soviets withdraw from Afghanistan.

Sagittarian humour
•   Bobby McFerrin tells everyone, "Don't worry, be happy."

•   Prozac is introduced as an anti-depressant.
•   The first plutonium pacemaker is made.

•   Human Genome project begins.
•   Voyager 2 spacecraft speeds by Neptune after making startling discoveries about the
        planet and its moons.

•   More than one million in Beijing's Tiananmen Square demonstrate for democracy;
        chaos spreads across nation; thousands killed as Chinese leaders take hard line
        toward demonstrators.

•   Jimmy Swaggart admits to being with prostitutes.
•   Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini declares author Salman Rushdie's book The Satanic Verses
        offensive and sentences him to death.
•   Dalai Lama wins Nobel Peace Prize.

Saturn-Uranus opposition 2008
At the opposition of Saturn and Uranus every 40 years, the old order is challenged to transform its inflexibility and dogma in order to embrace the creative vision of Uranus. In 2008, Saturn in Virgo opposed Uranus in Pisces and together with Pluto’s ingress into Capricorn, the world experienced:

- World economic depression
- Breakdown of governments
- Breakdown of world trade
- Corporations relentless pursuit of profits at all costs
- Urgent environmental situations
- Deterioration of cultural, social and political structures
- Secrets of governments
- Unrestrained military power
- Depletion of Earth’s resources
- Natural disasters

Under the backdrop of Pluto’s ingress into Capricorn, Saturn in Virgo and Uranus in Pisces came into exact opposition on November 4, 2008, Election Day in the US, when the ‘Uranian’ Barack Obama beat the ‘Saturnian’ campaigns of McCain and Palin. With Saturn and Uranus in a state of maximum tension, the world was challenged to integrate two radically different and opposing energies. From this point on, the world experienced the devastating impact of the world financial crisis, Obamacare, people turning to holistic medicine, and a greater desire for human rights (Occupy movement).

Uranus (the individuated unconscious) transited Pisces (the collective consciousness/unconsciousness), and opposed Saturn (what we are conscious of) in Virgo (the boundary between subjective, self-orientation and objective, social orientation). On a personal level, Saturn in Virgo generated a great deal of guilt around Natural Law (original conjunction in Sagittarius). Virgo purifies and improves, makes us aware of other people and social systems, and how to be of service to the whole, not just to the self. The polarity, Pisces, represents ultimate ideals. Uranus was especially chaotic in Pisces bringing a high tide of breakdowns and breakthroughs. The opposition had the effect of waking people up out of old realities, distorted beliefs, lies, escapism, denial, and into idealism, trust, faith, hope and miracles.

The Pluto/Virgo generation (Saturn-Uranus opposition 1964; Uranus/Pluto conjunction 1966) began to play a pivotal role, rolled up their sleeves, and began the detailed ‘clean up work’ in areas such as environmental degradation, climate warming, health, food and water, war issues, overpopulation, genetic engineering, pollution, resource depletion, consumerism, logging, mining, animal exploitation, conservation, endangered species, and the list goes on…

The current Saturn-Uranus cycle will complete in 2032 and a new cycle will begin at 28° 01′ Gemini, opposite the Galactic Centre, and full phase inconjunct Jupiter at 29° 47′ Capricorn (conjunct USA’s Pluto).


Correlating to the Saturn-Uranus cycle, the acceleration of evolution of human consciousness continues with intensity, uncertainty, but also excitement, as Uranus brings radical and sudden change; stimulates our need to break free from the Saturnian conditioning bonds of the past; inspires new thought, discovery and illumination; and brings the collective into a greater unified awareness.

[1] www.wikipedia.org
[2] [3] www.infoplease.com

~      ~      ~

Thanks Rad and group ... a wonderful experience for further EA learning, as usual.

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« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2014, 03:47 AM by Linda » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: Sep 10, 2014, 02:57 PM »

Saturn in Sagittarius Square Pluto in Leo

Individuals with Saturn square Pluto are very intense individuals who have been conditioned to be very responsible and to take their responsibilities very seriously. Many of these individuals have a distorted sense of duty and responsibility that comes from being made to feel responsible for circumstances and events beyond his or her personal control in childhood. As a child, the individual was either consciously or unconsciously conditioned to feel responsible for these circumstances or events. This in turn creates feelings of guilt within the individual as he or she feels responsible for whatever happened.

An individual with Saturn square Pluto tends to be very ambitious and persistent when it comes to pursuing his or her goals. Many of these individuals are workaholics as they put their duties and responsibilities above all else. Others may perceive these individuals as being selfish since they are so focused on their work and responsibilities.

The Saturn square Pluto individual tends to be rather conservative and resists change. He or she may have psychological issues related to power and control and usually has problems with authority figures. These individuals often make good leaders as they are serious and tend to accomplish a great deal.

An individual with Saturn in Sagittarius and Pluto in Leo belongs to a subset of the Pluto in Leo generation who have derived a sense of security in the past through religion or spirituality to some degree. In addition, these individuals have been learning the evolutionary lesson of creative self-actualization and feel as though they have a special destiny to fulfill in this life.

An individual with Saturn in Sagittarius square Pluto in Leo is very conscious of having a special destiny to fulfill and willing to work very hard in order to actualize his or her special destiny. With Saturn in Sagittarius, the individual’s special destiny will be focused on, or related to, the arts, religion, philosophy, science or spirituality in some way or form. The individual is very interested in “truth,” relative to his or her evolutionary stage, and will seek to discover and promote “truth” and the higher meaning of life through his or her work.

Although the individual with Saturn in Sagittarius is a truth seeker to one degree or another, he or she can become overly rigid and fixed in relation to his or her beliefs.  It is possible that an individual with Saturn in Sagittarius may cease to search for alternative ways of looking at “reality” once he or she discovers a perspective or set of beliefs that resonate with him or her.

Now let’s take a look at a real life example.  Bill Maher, an American comedian best known as the host of both “Politically Incorrect” and “Real Time with Bill Maher,” has Saturn in Sagittarius square Pluto in Leo. Maher has written several best selling books and produced a documentary in 2008 titled “Religulous.” Maher is an Individuated Soul.

Bill Maher is known to be a very serious, hardworking individual who has never married as he is married to his work. According to Joe Hagan of NY Magazine, “In Maher’s world, business comes before pleasure, and his business is jokes.”

Although Maher promotes himself as a “a belligerent atheist and dope-smoking womanizer,” he is actually very conservative.  In NY Magazine, Joe Hagan writes. “For all his rebellion, Bill Maher is an ecumenical late-night host, a devotee of Steve Allen and Johnny Carson, whose shows were creature comforts built on Borscht Belt rhythms dating back to Milton Berle and the dawn of television.”

Maher is reported as having been very intense and serious as a child. In an interview with People Magazine he tells us that he never watched cartoons and was always making lists. He started watching “The Tonight Show” (with Johnny Carson) when he was eleven and knew he wanted to be a comedian by the time he was a senior in high school.  This is not surprising as Sagittarius is ruled by Jupiter which is associated with humor.

A Saturn Pluto square is said to be especially difficult prior to the first Saturn Return.  It has been reported that Maher was usually depressed during his high school years. He says, “I was kind of a loser, certainly socially.  I’ve never felt anything as bad as high school. That was crushing,”

Maher’s father was a major influence in his life.  According to Joe Hagan in NY Magazine, “Bill Maher Sr., was a news editor at NBC, and his angry tirades against Nixon, fueled by an Irish-Catholic temper, became a blueprint for Maher’s own obsession with current affairs.” Maher was exposed to current events and the world of television through his father. It is reported that current events were discussed at the dinner table and Maher was allowed to voice his own opinions.  When Maher was in his teens, the family stopped going to church as his father objected to the Church’s stance on birth control.

Although we don’t know very much about Maher’s personal life, we can see that his consciousness was shaped by his Irish Catholic father, the news and current events, and “The Tonight Show” starring Johnny Carson.

It is said that Saturn square Pluto correlates with delays related to one’s career. Maher began his career as a standup comedian in 1978 or 1979.  He made limited appearances on tv throughout the 80s and very early 90s.  Finally, after years of hard work and a great deal of persistence, Maher landed the role of host of “Politically Incorrect” in 1993. Maher earned numerous award nominations for  producing, writing and hosting Politically Incorrect. In 2003, Maher became the host, co-producer and co-writer of Real Time with Bill Maher which is now in its 12th season on HBO. With a lot of hard work and focus, Maher actualized his special purpose.

Saturn correlates with boundaries and Sagittarius correlates with morals and principals. In Forbes magazine,  J. Max Robins writes, “Maher has his boundaries. Other superstar stand-ups on the road make millions in merchandising t-shirts, videos and various knickknacks. Not Maher.”  Robins goes on to quote Maher as saying, “I’m not going out to Birmingham or Biloxi to make a financial killing. I feel like like if I go crazy with merchandising it would interfere with the bigger picture.” Robin goes on to explain “By that Maher means using his wicked humor to expose a world filled with hypocritical tycoons and Neanderthal politicians run wild. Going too commercial, he fears, would make him too much like those he lacerates.”

As mentioned earlier, individuals with Saturn in Sagittarius are usually focused on religion or spirituality in some manner or form. Maher is no exception.  Actor Sean Astin recently referred to Maher as a “cripplingly intellectually abusive atheist” with an “excessive need to promote atheism.” This sure sounds like what can happen when Saturn in Sagittarius squares Pluto in Leo.

Maher denies that he is an atheist, "I'm not an atheist. There's a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn't believe in religion. Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don't need. But I'm not an atheist, no."

Tom Kershaw points out that Maher “thinks religion is so ridiculous that it’s not even worth thinking or caring about–even though his films, numerous comments and critiques, and his show “Real Time with Bill Maher” would indicate that he does, in fact, care quite a bit. “

In 2008 Maher teamed up with Larry Charles to make the movie Religulous.  According to Variety magazine, Religulous is a documentary "that spoofs religious extremism across the world." Maher is highly critical of all religion and views it  as highly destructive.


Full Documentary:

As mentioned earlier, Maher has never married. In the past he has admitted having a fear of commitment as he is afraid that marriage would destroy his work. Maher is known to date strippers and “women who just like to have fun” rather than involve himself in serious relationships. Joe Hagan reports, “Maher doesn’t want kids. In his mind, he already has them—every Friday night.”

“The audience has always been my kids,” Maher says. “That’s where my energy went. That’s where my caring, as you put it, went. That was the relationship that I’ve maintained and really worked the hardest on. Harder than real relationships.”  (Note: Maher’s Saturn in Sagittarius is in the 1st House square Pluto in Leo in the 11th House and Venus in Pisces in the 5th House. It is also opposition his Moon in Taurus in the 7th house).

This short synopsis of Mather’s life and career is a good example of how the structure of one’s consciousness, as symbolized by Saturn and its aspects, works to shape one’s life.

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« Last Edit: Sep 10, 2014, 05:11 PM by cat777 » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: Sep 11, 2014, 04:44 AM »

Saturn in Virgo in a last quarter square to Neptune in Sagittarius

Enter reality

Neptune correlates as we know, to ultimate reality, that which simply is or exists beyond personal or collective opinions and beliefs. Neptune is the planet that is easily able to go beyond Saturn´s conditioning. Saturn, Capricorn and the Tenth house all correlate to what we experience as reality on planet Earth. This reality is a result of our past desires (Pluto) and the conditioning that these desires created for evolutionary purposes. Saturn correlates with crystalization, to that which has been defined and thus to form. In this sense Saturn is associated with karma, consequence. Pluto is the karma that our desires create, positive or negative and the karma that our own resistance to the evolutionary pull creates, Pluto is the why. Saturn is the karma created by actions that have been projected into physical form and then crystalized over time. Saturn also correlates with time and thus with aging, therefore that which we do again and again in the same way tends to crystalize in our consciousness and physical reality. That is part of the aging process, to do things in the same way on a psychological level which will then lead that dynamic, whatever it may be, to crystalize in the physical realm and become familiar, reliable, and consensual such as in a personal style social tradition. What happens after is that these forms and structures or ways of being can then become obsolete and oppressive over time, which is where Uranus comes into the picture and does its best to implement new view points in order to break down that which is obsolete and transform the structure in order to allow for further expression of the individualized self and the various groups of people who feel the need for change. Uranus transforms Saturn´s reality through the act of rebellion in varying degrees, depending on the need for change and progress. This rebellion usually comes from people who feel oppressed by the social structure in various ways and which have naturally developed a sense of objectivity, a perspective which is detached and thus able to give insight which can lead to transformation of the social conditioning and thus lead to the desired progress. Neptune can totally alter the structural limitations which are natural to Saturn and expand the boundaries inherent in any individual´s consciousness, serving as a transcending factor which opens the consciousness of the individual to the timeless, the universal and the unknown. Uranus represents the desire to break free from the known and Neptune is the mystery that lies ahead, the unkown.

Neptune is able to wash away limiting factors or  expand boundaries that are apparently real and tangible or to overcome physical limitations thru sheer faith and devotion.

What is actually real?

 The interface between Saturn and Neptune is extremely interesting as Saturn is reality but Neptune is beyond reality itself and also represents ultimate reality. What does that mean? It means in any given circumstance there is the unkown, that which is beyond the senses, beyond the rational and beyond what we think we know or even can know in some cases. These two archetypes, the known and the unknown, the reality we know or believe to be real and that which is beyond reality, that which is unreal or might be real, are always interfacing with one another within our own psyches and therefore are also reflected in our reality (Saturn). Reflection itself is Saturn, to reflect upon the life experiences we have, leads to real knowledge as we learn from the past and take responsibility for our actions. The natal placement of Saturn naturally correlates with how our consciousness is structured, along with the Moon, it will correlate with the personal container (Ego) which that consciousness is housed in. Consciousness itself correlates with Neptune. So when we have these two psychological dynamics in aspect to one another, it is the interface between consciousness (Neptune) the quality and type of consciousness, and the physical Earth reality and limitations that the Soul will experience in its incarnation in order for that consciousness to evolve, to experience itself reflected back towards itself.

What will be the ultimate reality for this Soul? How does this Soul experience that which is trancendental, other worldly and beyond what the world in general is able to describe or define? How will these dynamics or experiences be integrated into it´s social reality? Does the national or parental system/structure support what the Soul is attempting to understand via Neptune´s search for ultimate meaning and unity? What will the Ideals of the Soul be like and will they be applicable in a a tangible way into their current Earth experience?

When we look at Saturn in Virgo square Neptune in Sagittarius in the context of reality itself, on the deepest levels, we can ask ourselves what is actually real? The answer cannot be answered without the Pisces polarity and the correct view of reality, ultimately, as an ongoing evolutionary phenomenon involving all of creation, which cannot be totally understood from within the physical limitation of the human form (Saturn). With this combination we learn about personal truth and accept that ultimate reality is made up of the collective conscious/unconscious and beyond, all the way back to the Source of creation itself. With Saturn in Virgo relative to Neptune in Sagittarius, the conditioning of the consciousness is in order to discern thru analysis and discrimination what is truth or ultimate reality, for the Soul. This comes from experiencing as much of the universal as possible and simply defining it as it is, without judgement.

The conditioning of the consciousness of Saturn in Virgo is one of self improvement that leads to humility and to service in varying degees. The theme of self improvement will condition all other planetary functions in the natal chart and with Neptune in Sagittarius, the highest a Soul can accomplish is to have an ongoing sense of joy, adventure and empathic compassion as he or she serves others or nature and thus also improves itself and ultimately contributes to the whole.

The known and the eternal mystery of the unkown

When we have these two planets in aspect we have the interfacing between all things to do with laws and regulations of any given Soul´s circumstancial reality and the desire and need for unity with the divine, the cosmos, or that which is simply beyond the known, the Soul´s natural sense of unity with all of existence, the highest ideals of the Soul, the illusions and escapist tendencies. We have our crystalized beliefs which are from hard won experience (Saturn) interface with unlimited potential. Neptune is the unknown therefore it could be anything and/or nothing at all. Who knows what water is like and is able to describe it until you jump into the water yourself? That is when Saturn has the experience of the unknown, when we jump into the water and know for ourselves what the experience truly was, what it felt like. In this case we define for ourselves what it is like to be wet and in the water but then as we gain experience and define our reality, the Neptune function also keeps on operating in various ways to always remind us there is more, there is infinite potential and yet there are the limitations or boundaries of our current reality. The aspect between Saturn and Neptune will show how we live out these two dynamics of experiencing and defining the unknown within our reality and it´s limitations or boundaries, laws, customs and so on. This will also correlate with our ideals and how we are able to give form to our imagination. The phasal relationship between the two indicates how we structure our personal reality relative to our perception or experience of ultimate truth, that which simply is without any personal judgement which of in turn defines our sense of reality. How we define reality for ourselves along with Mercury and Jupiter, which correlate to the left and right brain, the empirical and the intuitive search for knowledge. But Neptune is beyond knowledge, it simply is. The two correlate to how we can express and integrate the ideal with the real. How to satisfy the idealistic vision in practical terms, how to structure our personal lives according to a higher purpose of some kind. Neptune is the divine and Saturn the reminder that the divine in you is wonderful but that you don´t live off air alone (at least not most people) and you live in a society. In VIrgo, Saturn is doubly focused on the nitty gritty aspects of hard core reality and how it interfaces/limits and therefore gives form to the divine in physical form. Saturn in Virgo is one of the most painstaking placements there is. With this placement ther can be a tendency to separate things to a “T” in order to define them until they are undefinable. With Saturn in Virgo we can truly never feel ready enough or be enough and have all the doubts in the world to perpetuate a nagging sense of inferiority. We can feel oppressed by the world in various ways and develop chronic health issues because of a negative attitude that taxes the nervous system.

First we work then we play

Saturn in square aspect to Neptune in Sagittarius can correlate to a very deep crisis of knowing what on Earth to believe and what not to. Pisces is naturally opposite Virgo so here we have a triple crisis signature relative to the integration of the two planetary functions within ones own psyche. Basically the Soul can be totally confused and lost at times. The natural tendency for Sagittarius is to expand and search for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, with Neptune in Sagittarius, life itself can be the eternal rainbow or some other wonderfully optimistic dream but, when in square to Saturn in Virgo, one can really say that reality bites, especially if there is a lack of natural humility. Neptune in Sagittarius is naturally a very simple consciousness, that is rooted in natural law in a healthy individual and remembering that the South Node of Neptune is in Aquarius for all Souls on the planet, we can expect the consciousness of many of this generation´s Souls to be extremely open minded and naturally in tune with values of equality, sharing and inclusion. We can expect Souls with Neptune in Sagittarius to be attracted to natural, sometimes tribal ways of connecting to the divine and desires to live according to these natural ways of life. When in square to Saturn in Virgo, the need to improve, the self criticism and need to work hard and build something that actually benefits someone else and is of service to the whole, can become depressing to some. Neptune in Sagittarius wants ultimate freedom and Saturn in whatever sign doesn´t give a damn about freedom, not until the work has been done.  

Potential work

Saturn in Virgo can be a very positive influence for healing the self, others and the environment as it becomes increasingly aware of correct methods of dealing with the environmental problems and issues of any society. This can be a potential professional path for the individual. Any path related to service such as being a health care professional of some sort, a counsellor or technician can be a good outlet for Saturn in Virgo to develop its natural need to be of service. With the Square to Neptune in Sagittarius the possibilities are open to those that wish to improve the justice system with their idealistic nature and desire for perfection and social improvement just as they can have a very unique artistic perspective and abilities due to the interaction of Saturn and Neptune, form and formlessness, time and timelessness, inspiration vs depression, finitude and the eternal…which can lead to some very unique and out there creations, perspectives or ideals.Travel, research and teaching are also possible avenues of professional expression.

Patriarchal conditioning

In the Patriarchy, which also correlates to Saturn, Capricorn and the Tenth house, we have a distorted crystalized reality here on the planet, as those who call the shots have naturally turned into greedy world dominating tyrants over thousands of years of world domination. Capricorn can be the stepping stone that supports your growth process and it can also be the walls that oppress you and keep you in prison.

We all are the patriarchy, we are the ones who lifetime after lifetime have created this reality on Earth. We are responsible for the state of the world today. With the South Node of Saturn in Capricorn we all have responsibility and have our consciousness conditioned by the distorted realities we created for ourselves by abusing our authority and control and the planet. This also from within our own selves, we are extremely judgemental towards our own selves and are the ones who hurt ourselves with each act of selfishness or over expression of the masculine principles and distorted expression of the female principles as a result. The Saturn function within ourselves is highly emphasized and over active due to the past we are emerging from with the South Nodes of Jupiter Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn. It is also highly distorted because humans have allowed history to be the way it was, which we all know by now that it was not in the best interest of the totality of human, animal and plant life forms on Earth. If you ask most people about the world and how it is they will simply repeat to you “it´s always been that way” when in truth, they don´t know more than what their teachers, parents, religious preachers and media told them about the subject. Unless you have direct memory of something and experience of it then it is most probably some form of indoctrination that might or might not add up. With this heavy emphasis on Capricorn energy due to the South Nodes being placed there we can see the toll Saturn has on the world and on individuals in this day and age. It truly does feel like the middle ages in some regards as the dynamics are pretty much the same, just the scenery and technology changed. Domination, abuse of power left and right and social status and classes meaning more than life itself are all aspects of a distorted Capricorn. A healthy expression of Capricorn is the one who leads by example and integrity. The cream naturally gravitates to the top just as there are natural hierarchies in existence based on those  who can fit the job description best.
These South Nodes correlate with the desire in humans to experience the dark side and be totally cut off from their own true inner needs (Cancer). We live in a world where nature can sustain us fully yet we are prisoners to some greedy old men or those who express these “qualities” who desire nothing more than to feel secure by dominating whatever they can.

The Devil is in the Details

Saturn correlates with the type of social/physical conditions one finds him or herself in. Someone with Saturn in Virgo can have a consciousness that is turned inwards upon itself, remembering the natural Yin qualities of Virgo, this inner focus leads to constant self analysis. The reason for this self analysis is because Virgo is the archetype of self improvement and self analysis is crucial to achieve the desired results. Self analysis and discrimatory powers, the use of the brain to reason and the correct use of intelligence all fall under the archetype of Virgo. The double Yin qualities of Saturn in Virgo can lead to a naturally compressed type of consciousness, an individual who is always attempting to improve himself or something in the external environment in some way. Saturn is the builder or the suppressor so with Saturn in Virgo one may be constantly trying to build something or another or may be attempting to control some aspect of life out of sheer fear. One might be focused on health issues in a very serious way as one might have deep fears of diseases and illnesses. In fact crippling diseases have been a past life reality of the Soul that in this life has the task to improve on its health. With Saturn in Virgo the consciousness can and will be defined by a need to improve and perfect oneself which can lead to a Sado/Masoquist approach to life in general if the Soul has accepted false beliefs about itself, the human race and life in general. The Soul can be over critical of itself and others due to the effects of these false beliefs and thus lead to the desire to punish others and itself for any transgressions or sins as some religions put it. Saturn is the archetype that judges and convicts, when in Virgo there can be a limited focus on a singular aspect of a given dynamic to the exclusion of the whole big picture. Remembering Virgo is naturally opposite Pisces in the Zodiac, it can be natural for the Virgo archetype to get lost in the details.

Crisis in consciousness

The last quarter square aspect between any two planets will create a crisis and dynamic tension between those two psychological dynamics which correlate with the nature of the planets involved. Between the Sun and Mars for a simplified example, can correlate to a Soul that in the current life (Sun) is at a crossroads relative to how it asserts itself in order to actualize it´s creative potential in this lifetime. It can correlate to someone who acts against his or her own purpose. The last quarter square between any planets will correlate to a crisis relative to know what to believe as true since the Soul has already been thru the mills so to speak and is at a point in it´s evolution where he/she needs to understand things in it´s own terms, beyond what any external authority dictates or society.

With these two planets which correlate so strongly to reality in so many ways, we can then understand how people with this square or with other tense aspects between Saturn and Neptune can have a hard time knowing what is true and real or fantasy and imagination. They have the past experience of what has come before, what society teaches and dictates and yet at the same time may have had experiences which defy logic itself. With Saturn square Neptune, the real and tangible can very easily become jello like just when they least expect it. The world of form and formlessness are at odds and the key word is integration. Intregrating one´s own experiences, no matter how wacky and out there they may be, in the real world of judgements and socially constructed personas that are everything but real when put under the microscope. Did we just say microscope? Well Saturn in Virgo can certainly be like a microscope in which Saturn, the need to define, wants to understand the mechanism to the last detail thru analysis.  


Saturn and Neptune in hard aspect can also correlate to health problems and to mental imbalances because Neptune correlates with the mental balance of the individual, personal planets and house positions would be necessary to get an accurate idea of potential medical conditions though. When the consciousness is in a form (body) and environment (society) that is painful, unhealthy, distorted hard to understand, crazy and imbalanced like the world we live in, for so many people who live in un-natural and un-healthy ways, the Soul/Ego will naturally create chemical imbalances in the brain and body. These imbalances are essentially unresolved emotions, attitudes, painful experiences, negative thoughts and their consequences, that have not been understood or integrated in a positive way into the psyche of the individual. When we are children and see things that we naturally know to be wrong, unfair or distorted and there is no logical explanation for these emotions or dynamics, the child can suppress these emotions in order to push them under the conscious threshhold into the unconscious. These suppressed emotions and psychological dynamics will live themselves out just like water will not disappear just because you pretend it´s not there after a flood. It will rot and gain a life of its own which translates into displaced emotions in the growing child/teenager/adult and into fears that can be irrational, as if though they come from nowhere and can turn into paranoia or chronic anxiety, hysterical reactions and panick attacks. The immune system (Neptune) and the central nervous system (VIrgo) can also be weakened due to constant crisis. Hypersensitivity to light is also a possibility because Neptune correlates with the Pineal gland. The teeth and bones may be deformed or underdeveloped also due to improper maintenance or mal nutrition. Traumatic injuries to the feet are possible as Saturn correlates with physical trauma and Neptune with the feet. Problems relative to the skin and it´s pigmentation, to the scalp and to infections of the skin and other dermatologic diseases are all possible. On an energetic level Saturn correlates to the outer layer of the Root chakra and Neptune to the crown chakra. This can indicate an imbalance between excessive material concerns relative to work and status which are fears that block (Saturn) the individual from having a true connection to the divine (Neptune). The individual can already have in his energetic signature past life issues resolving around the loss of status and various types of physical and material hardship. It can also be the opposite and the individual lives on a cloud of some sort of escapist tendencies, which leads to being ungrounded in the physical world rendering the individual hopeless to deal with the practical side of life. Souls with this and similar aspects can be extremely sensitive to impurities in food and drink and to all sorts of medications that are not natural. The Soul is attempting to define for itself thru the act of discrimination what is beneficial and what is not, beyond what anyone says. This will lead the individual over time, to define for him/herself what is healthy and what is not, what to consume, what not to and, on a progressive basis to improve the lifestyle thru effort and, intelligence and experience. This is a positive aspect of how this placement can live out, the Soul can become very experienced in health issues and actually may make a career out of the health industry or practice medicine/nutrition/physiotherapy or something similar, to a degree at least.


When looking at this aspect from a past life point of view this is one of those aspects and all tense aspects between Saturn and Neptune can correlate to persecution. persecution for vaious reasons but in Virgo/Sagittarius the main themes would be persecution because of a need to understand truth itself as perceived from the inside and beyond what religion/philosophy dictates. We can imagine that in the past lives of a Soul with this aspect there could of been various lives in which dynamics relative to religious and philosophical beliefs put the Soul in a position of either persecutor or persecuted. Probably both as the Soul on the one hand needed to have total faith in his or her core ideals and could of been persecuted for having ideals that were not socially accepted. Also in the position of persecutor when the ideals of others caused a sense of insecurity in the individual which then led to him or her persecuting others in order to maintain the known, secure reality.

Another dynamic that could lead to persecution in the past and thus in the present, could be relative to beliefs of how to conduct oneself socially. What is socially acceptable vs what is not. Of course this will always depend on the circumstancial conditioning of the Soul but the main theme here is for the Soul to understand for itself what to believe in terms of what is real, what simply is and how to fit into the world at large with what it feels and knows inside, whether in accordance with what others think and believe or not.

Another dynamic relative to health issues… this aspect can correlate to extremely deep wounds due to persecution or simply rejection of ones core ideals, spiritual or religious pursuits etc. Saturn square Neptune can of course be extremely sensitive to criticism and simply desire to withdraw from any and all opposition due to memories of ridicule, persecution and judgement. With Saturn in Virgo square Neptune in Sagittarius the Soul can desire to take responsibility for its health as there may be a natural distrust of the medical establishment or various other established social systems, due to past experiences just mentioned. The Soul may simply desire to tune out and float away to some distant place, real or imagined but, with Saturn in Virgo reality keeps on biting and work needs to be done just as physical maintenance also needs to be done and cherished. With this aspect there can be a tendency in some natives to live out one of the planets dynamics to the extreme while suppressing or neglecting the other. For example we can have the clean and tidy freak who needs to be in control of everything and as soon as there is a spot on the tablecloth there is a crisis. These are the people that can develop into the famous hypochondriacs that Virgo is known for. The Neptune function will make sure there are many spots on the tablecloth as long as the person is vested in keeping a tight sense of control and goes into meltdown when things simply cannot be controlled. The other extreme would be the Soul that lives the Neptune function and neglects or evades the responsabilites and duties represented by Saturn´s sign, house position and aspects to other planets. This can translate into someone who drifts from place to place doing some work here and there but leaving as soon as anything gets in the way of freedom or as soon as things get sticky in some way. It can correlate to the Soul who dodges work in everyway as he or she thinks it is beneath him yet at the same time has needs in the physical world in order to satisfy its desires.

Saturn square Neptune last quarter can correlate to a Soul that has experienced extreme disillusionment in the lives prior to the current one and also in the current life. Extreme disillusionment relative to external authorities, parents, people in general and their own selves at times. Dishonesty can be a very big issue for this Soul either as it learns to be totally honest or as it learns to accept that most people are not honest themselves and needs to stop being taken advantage of. With Saturn square Neptune it´s understandable that there can be some naivety but there can also be huge dishonest behaviour in order to make our own ultimate beliefs appealable to others. Of course it can work both ways where others impose, sometimes by force and in ways that can be physically traumatizing (Saturn).  I have this exact aspect and was born to a Jewish mother by blood, then baptised Christian as a baby and forced against my will to practice and study Islam as a child. Here we can see the Neptune in Sagittarius function dissolving barriers between various religious traditions and beliefs that stem from the various cultural differences around the world. At the same time we have the defining and structuring side of Saturn in Virgo which in it´s desire for self improvement and perfection can adopt all sorts of guilt patterns and negative conditioning, which can have a negative impact on it´s self image and thus ability to operate within society, from the very authority figures that are there to protect and educate the child.

Form and formlessness.

When dealing with these two planets we are dealing with the natural form and formlessness of anything. With the last quarter square we might not even understand the difference between the two, or the formless may be in fact the form and vice versa. Again the question and issue is: what is real? The Soul´s that are less courageous and less aware will naturally tend to gravitate back towards that which at some point represented solidity and security. The Saturn function and conditioning may be preferred to the unkown abyss that correlates with Neptune. This can correlate to Souls who do their own research and define to a degree their own ultimate ideals or desire to express their artistic side and yet succumb to the ways that are known and secure. They succumb to the desire to be accepted by the majority and can live out the trancendental impulse (Neptune) by simply attemtping to escape their own inner selves by drinking or watching too much t.v. or going to every football match in order to feel complete and find a sense of unity with others.
The difficulty in establishing a definite form can also translate into difficulty in doing anything meaningful in society on a professional level. There can be insecurities and huge doubts about anything and everything if the native has difficulty in defining what is real and what is not. There can be a flip flopping between total dedication to a goal (Saturn) and the desire to let go of all the stress and tension that is inherent in most real life situations by any means possible (Neptune) or to dedicate to a spiritual life.
This is a great aspect for an artist of some kind, a film maker, musician or photographer as they can see things that many others cannot or would not dare to. They can give form to some of the most “out there” ideas any one could ever have. They can have a unique quality to unite others and wash away boundaries between people with their art if it comes from the right place and is in harmony with the greater good. They can have amazing imaginations or inner and outer realities that defy logic and “reality” itself. These Souls in the highest levels such as in some advanced Yogis and Monks or extremely devoted and evolved individuals, may be interested in being able to conquer many of the limitations in human form, such as desiring to become less dense and de-materialize themselves at will. This sounds out there but in very advanced levels of awareness many things that are not conceivable to the majority is actually really possible. We all have the interface between Saturn and Neptune and this is what it boils down to. What truly is real and possible from an ultimate point of view vs what is real and possible within our conditioning and how they interface. This conditioning of course comes from within our own individual consciousness and Souls, Pluto. We all have this interfacing within ourselves and it seems to me that there are three determinants of what is possible and what is not possible in human form.
1 Consciousness itself and the level of consciousness of the Soul.
2 Faith in the ability to manifest what is desired.
3 If what is desired is in synch with the greater good of the individual and the whole.

When looking at Saturn and Neptune in this light, we see that these two archetypes correlate directly to the potential of what one can achieve on the planet relative to the unlimited imagination of an individual. What one can build, not only for the self but also for others or the whole. Saturn and Neptune´s cycle will show how the real and unreal are experienced by the Soul and how these dynamics are lived out in the life of the individual or collective. We all have Saturn and Neptune somewhere and the trick is to find balance between the infinite potential we can perceive as possible with Neptune and the practical and tangible application of the ideal or the dream. An example would be Shamanism as it correlates with natural law and natural ways of healing and percieving the Soul, to me it correlates with Sagittarius and Scorpio, in these regards. Any form of ritualistic path to the Soul or use of psychedelics to me, also correlate to Pluto/Scorpio as they lead one to the Soul. That is what psychedelic means, evidence of the Soul. When in square aspect to Saturn in Virgo we can have the Shamanistic or holistic side suppressed by those in the medical professions, by those in authority, criticized, ridiculed and ultimately persecuted in order for the status quo to maintain itself. On another level we can have those that desire to be responsible for their health and for example desire to be vegetarians for various reasons, one of them being the desire to protect nature (Neptune in Sagittarius) while discerning what is truly healthy for the body (Virgo). At the same time something so simple as becoming a vegetarian can arouse strong criticism from others as it shakes their structural reality and sense of security.

Guilt and atonement

Virgo correlates with atonement and Saturn with man made guilt. With Saturn in Virgo there can be a sense of guilt because of patriarchal conditioning of various kinds of distorted beliefs and judgements stemming from religious or ideological distortions that have been perpetuated along the current Age of Pisces. Saturn in Virgo can correlate with a consciousness that is constantly attempting to atone for guilt that is not even natural but acquired thru constant judgement from external sources. In the current patriarchal way of life there have been many many distortions of the human being and nature in general and there have been many who have judged others and convicted them, burnt them even, simply in order to maintain their own structural reality or status quo intact. Simply in order to stay in control. Saturn in Virgo and it´s natural desire to atone for the un-natural and acquired guilt, can develop a sense of masoquism in which the individual constantly undermines him or herself, always creating situations in which he or she can end up humiliated. The constant feeling of being “stepped on” by others can lead to an inner compression of crystalized negative emotions and thoughts, especially when Saturn is in aspect to other planets such as the Moon or Mercury, that leads the individual to sort of dry up emotionally and become sarcastic, ironic and cold. The individual can begin to develop sadistic tendencies as the attitude of self judgement, in negative self undermining ways is turned outwards to other people or the environment. The need to judge others and make them pay or suffer can merely be a reflection of the individual´s own self judgement which is stemming from the need to atone for the guilt he or she feels. Remembering that guilt can be acquired, hopefully the individual at key points in his or her journey will have undergone so much self analysis as to lead to the understanding that the guilt dynamics and need to hurt the self and others is not inherently theirs. Thru the Pisces polarity there can be situations that simply overwhelm the consciousness of the individual at times, which has the effect of washing away many learnt and crystalized patterns of behaviour. The Pisces polarity asks to forgive and have compasison for the self instead of picking away at something that may not be that big of a deal in the end.

In situations of natural guilt, when the Soul in the current life or in its evolutionary history has done things that have gone against its own core internal value system, natural law and social law that is un-distorted, the need to atone which is natural to Virgo ,will need to forgive itself and develop some form of strategy in order to atone and be able to heal. Natural guilt is devastating and crippling but thru a Virgo step by step process and pure dedication one can free oneself from the emotions associated with the guilt and learn our lessons.
Saturn inVirgo can correlate with such guilts and the need to atone for or the need to discern and release the man made distorted guilt and its effects on the consciousness and thus reality of the Soul. If the Soul is flogging itself then it´s normal it will attract others in the environment who will be sadistic towards the masoquist until the Soul learns to let go of the desire to hurt itself and learns to be compassionate towards itself and others.

Virgo correlates with lonelyness and emptyness until the Soul has made a connection to the divine as symbolized by the Pisces polarity. Until Saturn or any other planet in Virgo aligns itself with a higher power of some kind, depending of course on various factors such as evolutionary level, country of birth which then has its own sociological conditioning and set of customs and norms, family and individual choices, the Soul can feel empty and disconnected, an inner void that nothing can fill up even with a lot of effort and work. The Soul is learning to be a part of the whole that actively contributes in a mature, serious and effective manner, capable of executing tasks that are simply necessary, big or small. The core emptyness a Saturn in Virgo can feel, when in this aspect to Neptune can be a very depressive influence. The Soul can set itself up for extremely disillusioning situations with others and with itself relative to its social and professional functions in society. The individual may encounter rejection, ridicule and an inability to find a specific work or function that is also in harmony with his or her ideals and dreams. With this aspect the individual may have enormous dreams yet be stuck in a reality that is totally opposite what the individual dreams to accomplish. This can lead to various types of depressive attitudes or to escapist tendencies of various types. It can lead to the individual creating fantasies about the nature of life itself and about his or her own social identity and purpose.


Natural judgement is the judgement of ones own consciousness, of the highest ideals we have deeply ingrained within ourselves and make up what we idealize on the deepest levels of our being. Remembering our spiritual root which has Aquarian qualities (S.Node of Neptune in Aquarius) of equality, inclusion, sharing and freedom, we all share these inner ideals whether we are aware of them or simply in a self deluded or quasi sleeping state. When these core ideals are not respected and distorted, it can create natural guilt and thus naturally lead to confused states and painful experiences. The square to Neptune and it´s crisis in consciousness is a crisis of faith. A crisis that needs us to follow ones core truth to the very end and to surrender any false judgements as they arise if necessary. What is man made judgement compared to natural judgement of your own consciousness or of others who have a natural right to judge us or even the Source itself? With these symbols the Soul will naturally have experiences of confusion and doubt relative to ultimate rights and wrongs vs socially learned judgements. In the end it is up to the individual to interface with these dynamics and find his or her way. The theme of natural judgement vs man made judgement will be ever so present in the consciousness of the individual as he or she learns to discriminate between the two. The Soul will also be learning about responsibility for the judgements it projects onto others as Saturn in Virgo can project negativity onto others because of unresolved criticism towards the self as it judges itself against a perfect standard of some type, including religious standards or impossible to attain standards of purity and perfection.

Ultimately the Soul judges itself in the light of the Source and is purified, the more impurities the Soul contains the more painful the experience is, as it experiences these impurities in comparison to its highest ideals and to the purity of the Source. The experience is utterly humbling.

Self Mastery

With Saturn in Virgo or the Sixth house the individual may at times simply be too hard on itself, always focusing on what is wrong in the environment or with others, which is in fact a sadistic or masoquistic approach to itself and life in general. Virgo wants perfection and yet there is only relative perfection so Virgo needs to learn to accept that the the totality of existence as we know it, is in fact in constant evolution, just as the individual is, therefore that implies that no one or anything is actually perfect. Thus Virgo can stop expecting so much from itself and others and with Saturn in Virgo there can be a strong tendency towards negative judgements of the self and others because of the impossible desire to reach an unrealistic ideal of purity and perfection. Saturn here can be extremey negative about itself and others to the point of giving up before even trying as it can correlate with an individual who doesn´t believe in him or herself and is scared of failure. With the Square to Neptune it has certainly experienced extreme failure of some kind and can develop irrational fears and negative mental attitudes because of these experiences. The trick and lesson is to take things a little easier and learn to trust the flow of life instead of trying to be in constant control. Virgo can be a very cold sign due to its analytical nature and Saturn here can correlate with a control freak. Its high level of intelligence can only go so far as it is reason and logic based, left brain and linear in its nature. The left brain can only comprehend so much on its own and with Saturn in Virgo there can be a potential sense of inner inadequacy towards ones own mental and logical functions or abilities. Some may simply feel less intelligent and inferior and thus attempt to compensate and structure their knowledge thru repetitive experience and by focusing on certain subjects/bodies of knowledge to a very high level of detail in order to overcome the sense of inadequacy and find some comfort in their own skin. Training and practice to “perfection” is a potential gift with this Saturn placement and the possibility of becoming a master at something, even if that something seems small and unimportant in the big picture, is still mastery. This mastery is in the end mastery of one self thru dedication. The Soul is attempting to learn how to use its time to experience life on Earth in the most efficient and practical ways for itself and others. Service is something the Soul is learning as it continually purifies itself of accumulated guilt and emotional/mental impurities and learns true humility by putting itself at the bottom of the pyramid. Depending on the individual Soul path and evolutionary journey, the Soul has currently developed the desire and need to live a life in which the themes of humility and service, constant self analysis, in order to improve and efficiency, are highly ingrained in the Individual´s consciousness, it is how it´s structured, with the Virgo background archetypal dynamic quality of purification. The individual can become a healer and serve the whole or the Source thru service of all kinds if it develops its consciousness in that way instead of constantly undermining itself thru sharp and cold self criticism. Thru being of service it can improve while gaining positive feedback from the environment or those in positions of authority which leads to a continual sense of personal self improvement and advancement thus eliminating the potential core sense of aloneness. Remembering the mutable quality of Virgo it is extremely expansive too and within its natural mode of operating, can go from one thing to another in both positive and negative ways. Just like it can create crisis after crisis in an exponential way which can lead to nervous breakdowns and other crippling health issues, the individual can also exponentially improve his or her life, self image and environment or the lives of others. It all depends on the effort the individual makes when dealing with reality and the world at large, the mentality and conscious focus, which over time naturally crystalizes within his or her awareness.


Since Saturn represents the goals we have and that which we aspire to build and structure and Neptune represents the formless and timeless, the individual may have a hard time sticking to projects or goals until their completion. There can be a tendency to simply give up or find excuses and rationalizations in order not to do whatever was desired. One reason for this may be a lack of belief and faith in the self or in the goal itself. Since Saturn/Neptune in hard aspect can be so confusing to the individual on a cyclical basis, he or she may at times really not know what is real and what is not on a fundamental level. Depending on the evolutionary level of the Soul, it will have a hard time actually defining healthy boundaries in various areas of life and existence, therefore it´s quite understandable that the individual may commit half heartedly at times due to the lack of faith or lack of interest. With this particular combination, depending on other planetary placements and configurations, the individual may be disillusioned with many aspects of life in general rangiing from governments to parents and people in authority to iconic figures and spiritual people one looks to for inspiration. One can be disillusioned with the state of the planet itself as Saturn in Virgo has a connection to environmental issues and the health services which relates to the quality of life for the population of any society. In square to Neptune in Sagittarius we have a natural inclination towards natural law which is being totally abused in the current timeframe we live in. Saturn in Virgo will become increasingly more aware of this fact and depending on the individuals with this Saturn placement and aspect to Neptune, can decide to take responsibility for its individual footprint on Earth in order to minimize the damage.

Faith is the key

Saturn in Virgo can and will many times feel inadequate or inferior if not well prepared, knowledgeable or simply ready to perform in some area of life. The house position of Saturn will show where the individual can feel inadequate because of a sense of inferiority and un-prepared-ness. Neptune in Sagittarius is totally at odds with Saturn in Virgo. Neptune in Sagittarius simply wants to be free and roam inwardly or outwarldy, it doesn´t really concern itself with the little details and worries and manias that a Saturn in Virgo can have, everything is always great for this Neptune, as Sagittarius can simply re-inspire itself over and over again no matter what happens and yet here is Saturn in Virgo, aka the “stone in your shoe” that reminds you to go to work and fulfill your obligations. Or it´s the health problem or problems in personal relationships that can arise from a care free attitude and an avoidance of responsibilites due to the false delusional attitude that all will be well.

With these planets configured in this way the Soul will need to be excrutiatingly honest with itself and others and learn to accept its own ignorance as a natural part of the natural development of a human being. Sometimes it requires courage to admit we do not know something or don´t know anything at all. With this aspect at times it can just be too confusing or painful and we might just need to let go of everything and have faith (Neptune) that we will find our way and the preserverance (Saturn) to stick to the chosen path. Faith that the Universe or the Source or whatever you believe in is present in your life and you are going thru the mill to know what your place is, not only in society but also in the cosmos. This aspect is so out there in terms of the intangible and the tangible interacting with each other, it´s as if the Soul needs to experience this type of crisis in consciousness in order to go on to the next level where social, parental, external conditioning is bombarded with tsunamis of timeless qualities that flood the consciousness of the individual in order to wash away the crystalized structures that inhibit a larger connection to others, the environment or existence itself. The Soul can feel “lost in space” at times and will have to adapt and simply go with the flow as old structures simply do not hold up, but its faith will have to.
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2014, 05:57 AM by Skywalker » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: Sep 11, 2014, 07:29 AM »

Saturn in Pisces oppose Pluto in Virgo

Pisces as an archetype represents the essence of emotion.
When the structural nature of consciousness is wrapped and conditioned with a Pisces border, the Soul will naturally have a high degree of sensitivity and will take in things from the environment more easily and with less defense, emotionally speaking and otherwise, in a sense. this Soul will 'feel' everything. Since Neptune, the ruler of Pisces connects to the immune system, this can also involve having a more compromised immune system or one that is having to work hard to fight off influences because more is filtering though, similar to a permeable membrane. But in essence this constitutes an open field of energetic permeability and a Soul who can easily osmose the energy of others, the collective energy included.

Considering Saturn in Pisces will then condition every other planet in the chart, this connects to a natural emotional Soul, and a Soul whose make-up is naturally innocent, as a result also gullible and naive, unassuming and often shy and overly trusting, and always wanting to give others the benefit of the doubt. This also connects to wanting to believe in the best in others, a self created ideal to see them at their best, and when this highest image does not manifest it can create repeated disillusionment, the Soul can feel victimized and every time it happens, it will feel like the first time. This can also include what you want to believe in a situation versus what is actually true, leading to disillusionment, JG calls this being an “emotional chump” - “ Things are not always what they appear to be” or what one imagined and hoped for them to be.  Beyond being emotionally overly idealistic, the same may be true as it relates to one’s spiritual idealism, or vision of God, an image of perfection of an entity who would sweep in and rescue, a God who would save the day at critical moments.

The Saturn in Pisces Soul will have an idealized standard of conduct and will have an ultimate sense of right and wrong which is reflected in this standard. They will judge themselves and others in reference to this standard and will experience self induced persecution when they were not able to do the right thing and persecute and judge others for not doing what is right, according to this standard, which is relative to their own weaknesses and flaws.  This becomes intensified when Saturn in Pisces is in opposition to Pluto in Virgo as the self critical themes can reach extremes and this then can be projected onto others. Many have also drawn lifetimes of persecution in order to atone for the guilt for not doing the ‘right thing’. They may come into this life with a sense of victimization and martyrdom, feeling at the mercy of forces beyond their control. It will be essential that these Souls start with taking responsibility for what their Soul has created leading up to this point and being able to ask that bottom line question, WHY? Some of these ‘victims’ who cannot face the past will compulsively avoid or escape reality through drugs or alcohol or any type of avoidance activities, creating a stalling out or a distraction from their right path. Avoidance activities can include anything that gets in the way with what the Soul needs to be tending to and focusing on, which can also include a plethora of tasks creating mind clutter and repeated diversions and a distancing from their emotional bodies. Considering the only way the Soul evolves is via the emotional body, this would create a suspending effect or in some cases a ‘slipping down the evolutionary mountain" until a wake-up call arrives and they are forced into some form of metamorphoses. They may have or will compulsively blame others for their avoidance behavior and in the most extreme cases, some Souls will remain locked in their own inner prison. Ultimately, this lesson and intention is to align one’s will with higher will, so the inner cell door can swing freely open again.

Living With Ghosts

With Saturn in Pisces opposing Pluto in Virgo, the Soul would have been persecuted harshly by the patriarchy ( I suppose who hasn’t been) but these symbols connect directly to being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps the Soul was hiding and was caught in the act of something, exposing their innocence and finding themselves in a dangerously vulnerable position that the patriarchy did not ‘approve’ of, due to some man made religious rights and wrong, this even includes betrayal by ones own family.  It could have become so extreme that the Soul would have experienced absolute humiliation, leading them past the point of no return where everything they trusted in themselves and in the universe was destroyed, everything they may have loved or celebrated within themselves would have then felt to be ugly and wrong, nothing they deemed pure remained. The acts of others would have challenged everything they had come to believe creating devastating disillusionment, to the point of wondering who or what they could trust. Because the Soul is drawn to some type of transcendental belief system and in many cases a seamless spirituality, they may have lost their belief in God altogether, a sense of betrayal by their God when God was no where to be found when they needed ‘him’ to save them from being the victim of the most heinous acts...and in those moments asking, “Where is God?”, as they rocked in ruin.

At some point though, as for any Soul, all is not ever lost, there will always be a need to pick up the pieces and start again, to build again. This will be a life when the Soul will come up against these limiting blocks and barricades in order to grow, to throw off the fears and to return back to itself one Virgo step at a time. The Soul is needing to create a new groove in the record and this will take practice and time and determination. The inner tapes that have played about the Soul’s innocent and pure nature can be so negative that they may have even gone so far as to totally deny and discount their original make-up due to the consequences of this expression, as a result Saturn in Pisces opposing Pluto in Virgo reflects Souls going into deep hiding to protect themselves from further ridicule, exposure, abuse and attack.  

If this Soul was in the individuated or Spiritual state, the Soul may have gone into hiding, Pisces, escaping within consensus families in some cases to avoid actualizing their unique make-up, they would have been born into families, or cultures that reflected the norm, the masses, the polar opposite of who they are. One example of this is a Soul who is naturally wild and bohemian in nature, a true gypsy spirit and born during the hippie time yet exposed to none of it, no sign of it anywhere in the growing years as the Soul was shielded from this uninhibited free love revolution by the church and her patriarchal family structure. This Soul may have chosen this family and culture as to not stand out in the world or they may have needed to enter an environment like this that was so antithetical to their nature it would create a constant state of simply feeling ill, uneasy and an alien in that world, in order to force them back into their nature, as 'it takes an extreme to counteract an extreme'. Life in this context would have felt so counter to who they are that they would continually be questioning and naturally judging this environment and what society and/or their parents were asking of them. At some point if the pressure and the pain of the living lie was too much to carry, they would abandon the conditioned life and challenge those walls that were built to distance them from themselves and ultimately their essence, which is pure wide open emotion.

However, this aspect could also reflect a total Soul Gridlock. Souls with this aspect may even at times appear like automatons, anything for Soul survival, anything for their purity and vulnerability not to be exposed. There will be many 'chapters in their Soul's book where they are afraid to look'. At the end of the day, evolution becomes a choice and for some the risks may feel to be too high, some Souls could have a death grip on their perceived safety zone. One simple step in the direction that reflects a return to innocence can feel like life or death. The fears that surface can in many cases me so irrational and unrealistic and can be taken to paralyzing extremes, where the Soul would create one crisis after another. This would prove to be even more problematic as the greater the resistance, the more intense the energy will be to ensure change and evolution. This will be a life where the resistance or even conditioning would reach peaking levels at various energetic gates so either way the Soul will experience cataclysms and shocks in order to jettison the cement wrapping and that crystallization that had kept them frozen from their Soul’s natural design. However, the shocks do not of themselves guarantee growth and evolution. There are some Souls who may appear to change or make temporary adjustments but the root of resistance remains and the pattern of denial and defense persists.

With Saturn in Pisces opposing Saturn there will be a great fear of the unknown as if their Soul is standing on a precipice and no real sense as to where the leap will lead, and with memories in the cells of it leading to the worse, it will be hard to trust in the light forward. They will need proof at every step, some sort of tangible proof that they are safe and headed in the right direction. With every planet in their chart energized with Pisces, their proof will come with a feeling, an emotion and for some it will come in the form of a higher energy for only then will they begin to open their Soul windows and doors to the world again, the light will naturally spill forth, they will get this validation from within.

There is a desire to dissolve all barriers that prevent merging with the source whether they are emotional, psychological, intellectual or spiritual in nature and this will be a life where those barriers are confronted and tackled with the sole intention to remove them and clear the way so a deeper union with themselves and through extension the Ultimate Source, can happen. However there is an intense fear of losing control, a fear of their own intensity for some, and this Soul would have gone so far as to sacrifice itself and its own evolution rather than face that fear. If there have been choices leading up to this life where there was too much ego involvement then this will be a life where repeated humiliation occurs in order to bring their Soul back into a healthy state of balance and so any egocentric identification is in the process of being dissolved. Individuals with Saturn in Pisces oppose Pluto in Virgo have “resisted the evolutionary pull to merge, surrender and seek identification with the source”. This resistance as a result will create confusion and disorientation, alienation and disintegration at various stages in their life.

Through denial, the Soul will create one fantasy or illusion after another, these dreams are given tremendous power, they create these fantasies in order to find meaning, as if these fantasies would provide some form of ultimate meaning. At some point, this dream bubble will burst as the only place one finds ultimate meaning and unconditional love is in one's connection to the Source , and as painful as the disillusionment may be, there is 'magic in the clarity'.

Over time, as the pressure builds an implosion of sorts will occur, leading to a breakdown or a disintegration of some aspect of their identity or beliefs. Whatever they had built around themselves, the emotional fortress that was in place will come tumbling down as they realize that the life they had built for themselves, “Isn’t me”.  They will experience the great void as all the illusions of meaning they had created do not hold water and they find themselves saying, “There must be more than this”, or asking, “Is this really all there is?”  There will be a progressive loss of control in their life and at some point, some form of surrender will inevitably win.

There will need to be a conscious re-wiring and re-working on the inner programming. Some type of daily ritual that reflects a purifying of mind and body as in mediation or various types of yoga would be helpful to change the inner energy stream and improve the mental self destruction. Doubt will also continue to plague these Souls as they bump up against memories of the past or negative self judgements that surface, so it will be essential to have a strategy in place where an immediate counter thought replaces whatever thought has forced a freeze. This will be a life where the Soul will need to eliminate, Pluto, anything and everything that does not align with or support their path forward, a true shedding of skins. This aspect can reflect a delay in actualizing one’s right work, a procrastination even leading to a health crisis if they are not honoring the path the Soul intended due to being tied up in a knot resistance. The Soul would be famous for making excuses for all the reasons why they cannot take the leap and honor their right work. All of the excuses will sound rational yet they are what they are, excuses, linked with fears to embrace the unknown.

"There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in" ~ Leonard Cohen

The Pisces energy that permeates their Soul will echo with relief and encourage again a search for ultimate meaning, that meaning that can only be found  in one’s relationship with the eternal Source of all things, God. They must Surrender to the fear in order to experience divine communion and guidance and to truly understand that we are all broken and yet we are all also perfect in our original design, and that ULTIMATE STRENGTH LIES IN THE VULNERABILITY, that the Soul's power lives is IN their EMOTION. A daily space dedicated to this recovery must occur consistently, without fail, there must be no excuses for not “sitting in that space”, a space to purify their hearts, body and mind, for nothing will be more important than the Soul’s determination and efforts made to connect and return, no matter how long it takes.


Thanks again Rad, as always, for this learning opportunity and thanks group for your priceless contributions.


« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2014, 12:22 PM by Kristin » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: Sep 11, 2014, 08:51 AM »

Hi Kristin, Linda, Skywalker, and Cat....

I want to thank each of you for making the efforts that you have. I will be reading thoroughly all of what you each has presented, and get back to you in a few days.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #56 on: Sep 12, 2014, 06:59 AM »

Hi Linda,

First, thanks for taking the time and making the effort that you have especially in consideration of your physical body doing what it has been doing.

Your very detailed analysis of the Saturn/Uranus cycle relative to the natural phases between them that occur in time is just wonderful and excellent work.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #57 on: Sep 12, 2014, 07:17 AM »

Hi Cat,

First, thanks for taking the time and effort you have to work on this segment of our Saturn thread.

You have presented some of the key archetypes that correlate with a Saturn/ Pluto square that would apply to some Souls depending on their evolutionary state. In other words the various archetypes that you have identified would manifest differently depending on the specific evolutionary state which of course provides to orientation to those archetypes. For example, a Soul in the 2nd stage individuated relative the the archetype of philosophy, religion, etc would not condition their consciousness in that way. They would orientate to the square by way of intense rebellion against such things.

Using Maher as your example of the Pluto/Saturn square was good in terms of showing how his Saturn work lead the way for his Soul. His is a stated atheist. This reflects my point about the specific evolutionary condition serving as the determinant for the orientation to the archetypes that you have pointed out. To me Maher is well into the 1st Stage individuated leading to the 2nd stage which then correlates to what I said to the 2nd stage individuated: he has evolved so far within the 1st stage that it has then caused him to orientate to religions, etc in exactly the way that he has.

In essence you have done a good job Cat but it is a bit to generalized: Sagittarius.

God Bless, Rad

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« Reply #58 on: Sep 12, 2014, 07:46 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

First, thanks for taking the time and making the stupendous effort you have in detailing all the possible archetypes of the Saturn/Virgo last quarter square to Neptune/ Sagittarius. What you have presented and shared with us is the most comprehensive and accurate analysis and teaching that anyone could provide.

The total depth and comprehensiveness that you have gone into is just superior EA work. The only exception that I took started in the first sentence: "Neptune is the planet that is easily able to go beyond Saturn's conditioning. Saturn."

Relative to specific evolutionary states this is not always true. In the depths of the consensus states, for example, just the opposite would be true to the point of manifesting an almost hysterical holding onto, Neptune, the existing to the existing conditioning of Saturn. This reflects what you are saying about the fear of the unknown relative to Saturn.

Other than that my hat is off to you Skywalker. This is just tremendous and superior EA work.

God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #59 on: Sep 12, 2014, 08:13 AM »

Hi Kristin,

First, thanks for taking the time and making the effort you have in your presentation and analysis of the Saturn/Pisces in opposition to Pluto/ Virgo.

You have correctly identified many of the inherent archetypes relative to this aspect, and the inner causes that lead to the various manifestations of these archetypes. This is one of the things that you said that more or less sums it all up: "Through denial, the Soul will create one fantasy or illusion after another, these dreams are given tremendous power, they create these fantasies in order to find meaning, as if these fantasies would provide some form of ultimate meaning. At some point, this dream bubble will burst as the only place one finds ultimate meaning and unconditional love is in one's connection to the Source , and as painful as the disillusionment may be, there is 'magic in the clarity'. "

One of the core archetypes of this aspect that you could have mentioned is this which, in the end, correlates to why the Soul would choose to be born with Saturn in Pisces in opposition to Pluto in Virgo in the first place: evolving the Soul's consciousness through and because of the inductive understanding of anything versus the deductive understanding of anything. In this way, the Soul them simplifies the understanding of anything, including itself, by seeing the whole picture first versus becoming lost to a specific piece of the picture.

Really wonderful and excellent EA work Kristin.

God Bless, Rad
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