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Rad
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2014, 06:18 AM »

Hi Robin, Cat, Skywalker, Linda, Kristin, and Katharine ...

For our first step of understanding EA and Saturn let’s begin very simply. Remember one of the core archetypes of Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House correlates with the structural nature of the Soul’s consciousness in each life that then serves to condition or define all the other archetypes, planets, signs, and houses, within the totality of the Soul’s consciousness in each life. That which the consciousness of Saturn correlates too in each life is that which we are all conscious of. There is a natural boundary between what we are conscious of, and that which we are not conscious of: the individuated unconscious, Uranus, Aquarius, and the 11th House, and the collective consciousness / unconsciousness with correlates to Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House.

So, very simply, go ahead and do an EA illustration of Saturn in Leo. What are the archetypes of Leo that will serve as the defining archetypes in the structural nature of Saturn’s consciousness ?

We will be progressively adding onto these steps in order to develop a full understanding of all the Saturn, 10th House, and Capricorn archetypes. Right now our first step is intentionally simple. I would like all of you to have submitted your work by next Monday: June 2nd.

If you have any questions about this step please ask.

God Bless, Rad
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cat777
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 01, 2014, 07:48 PM »

Hi Rad and All,



“One of the core archetypes of Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House correlates with the structural nature of the Soul’s consciousness in each life that then serves to condition or define all the other archetypes, planets, signs, and houses, within the totality of the Soul’s consciousness in each life.” - Rad

Consciousness can be defined as a subjective awareness of one’s environment and the world in which he or she is a part of, as well as his or her perceptions and internal thoughts. There are many different levels and stages of consciousness including altered states of consciousness.  When a soul incarnates into the physical world its consciousness is structured to reflect the evolutionary needs and intentions of its soul. The soul is then “conditioned” by its family, culture, society and life experiences to develop a conscious awareness that reflects the evolutionary needs and desires of its soul. Saturn, the 10th House and Capricorn correlate to the nature of the conditioning patterns the soul has chosen for its current life and therefore the structural nature of the Soul’s consciousness in that life.

The structural consciousness of a soul born with Saturn in Leo, the 5th House, and to some extent, Sun/Saturn aspects, is defined around the Leo archetype. This is the archetype of creative self-actualization. Such a soul or individual is structured or conditioned to creatively actualize itself in any way it deems necessary.

Leo represents the principle of creativity and how we derive a sense of meaning and purpose in our lives relative to our evolutionary intention and desires. The Sun, Leo and the 5th House show how an individual integrates and gives purpose to his or her life, while Saturn shows us how the individual’s consciousness is structured and conditioned to actualize his or her purpose. That said, Saturn in Leo shows how an individual is “wired” to fulfill the intentions of his or her innermost self.

The consciousness of a soul with Saturn in Leo is structured to be centered upon itself.  This of course makes the soul appear to be highly self-centered. A consensus soul with Saturn in Leo can be extremely narcissistic and self-centered, while a soul in the spiritual stage is more inclusive of others and concerned with the good of all rather than just itself. Those in the individuated state lie in between these two extremes. Of course, it’s not as simple as this but the point is that although all souls with Saturn in Leo are centered upon themselves, the evolutionary state of the individual will determine to what degree they are narcissistic and self-centered as opposed to what degree they are just as concerned with others as well as themselves. A younger, less evolved soul, tends to be overly subjective and craves attention and adoration, while an older and more evolved soul will have developed a more objective consciousness and act accordingly.

Those born with Saturn in Leo, or the 5th House, attempt to use their own personal power to control their environment. Those in the consensus state are highly focused on the needs and desires of the ego and the personality. Until such a soul learns to only engage in creative activities that actualize and express the needs and desires of the higher self, the Saturn in Leo individual’s creative expression will be limited. These limitations will dominate the individual’s life until he or she learns to use his or her talents and abilities in a manner that benefits others and not just the self. At this stage, the Saturn in Leo individual feels that he or she needs to impress others and be creative in order to feel that he or she is in control.

Unlike a consensus stage soul, those who have evolved into the mid-to-upper individuated stages and the spiritual stage know who they are and what their duties and responsibilities (dharma) are. These souls have learned, or are learning, to sacrifice their egos to a higher purpose and use their personal power in order to benefit the collective rather than themselves.

Until such time that soul evolves to the later individuated and spiritual states, the soul with Saturn in Leo is likely to feel inadequate and fearful when it comes to expressing itself. He or she needs to be recognized, acknowledged and praised in order to develop and grow, but when receiving this type of attention, he or she feels unworthy of it and unimportant. At the same time, he or she may feel envious and resentful of others who appear to attract the love, praise and attention he or she desires effortlessly. Once the soul learns to shift its focus from its own ego to the collective, he or she will no longer be dependent upon the recognition and praise of others. He or she will no longer feel insecure and inadequate, but rather comfortable and sure of him or herself.

All souls with Saturn in Leo share a sense of responsibility and purpose no matter what their evolutionary stage. Creative self-expression and recognition is important to them. This is how their consciousness is structured and then serves to “condition or define all the other archetypes, planets, signs, and houses, within the totality of the Soul’s consciousness in each life.”

Adolf Hitler is an example of a third stage consensus individual with Saturn in Leo whose consciousness was structured to use his own personal power to control his environment. Although Hitler rose to a position of leadership, he was actually a very insecure individual who suffered from feelings of inadequacy and inferiority. He had a strong need to be recognized, acknowledged and praised as a leader. Although he was able to actualize his creative purpose, it was for a limited amount of time as his need and desire to control the world was an ego based and self-serving desire.  In the end, he was blocked from achieving his goal to rule the world as this was a need and desire of his lower self and of no benefit to mankind as a whole.

If we focus on the structure of Hitler’s consciousness being one that is “wired” or conditioned to use its personal power to control its environment, and look at each and every planet in his chart, it is actually quite easy to understand how each and every one was influenced by the make-up of his consciousness. We begin with Saturn itself.  It is in Leo in the 10th house and describes the structure on his conscious as one “wired” to use his personal power to control his environment through his career or sociological role, as well as through his authority, government, social status and public life. He was also “wired” to seek recognition, fame and adulation in all of these areas, as well to be seen and recognized as a powerful leader.

As we recall, Saturn shows us how the individual’s consciousness is structured and conditioned to actualize his or her purpose. Hitler’s Pluto is conjunct Neptune in the 8th House. Hitler chose to use the dark side of the 8th House in order to actualize his purpose: power, manipulation, domination, elimination, violence, abuse, death, and the occult. Behind the choice of using these particular manifestations of the 8th House archetype was a consciousness structured described above.

Hitler’s Mercury in Aries and  Sun, Venus and Mars in Taurus form a stellium in his 7th house of relationships, while his Moon and Jupiter are conjunct in Capricorn in the 3rd House. Simply put, Hitler’s creative purpose and subjective desire was to control others, whom he formed relationships with on every level, through propaganda and projecting his own needs and values upon them.  Once again, the structure of his consciousness as described above influenced his choices in relation to how to use these energies in order to fulfill his innermost desires.

Bob Dylan, whose “iconoclastic work earned him the unofficial title of The Voice of the '60s, is a good example of an 3rd stage individuated stage soul that is no longer focused on the ego and lower self and who is now more focused on the needs of the collective. Dylan is quoted as saying things like, “I'm speaking for all of us. I'm the spokesman for a generation,“ as well as
“Basically you have to suppress your own ambitions in order to be who you need to be.”

Dylan’s Saturn is part of a stellium in Taurus in the 5th house along with his Moon and Uranus. Dylan’s consciousness is structured to use his personal power to radically change the social structure, or society, through his music. His consciousness is structured to listen to his own needs in order to find value and meaning in life in relation to his emotional self and need to liberate himself from conditioning patterns and any peer pressure that seeks to define him.

Dylan’s Pluto is in Leo in the 8th House with its polarity point in Sagittarius in the 2nd House. His current evolutionary intention and desire being to identify his own internal resources and values in order to sustain himself by developing an objective rather than subjective consciousness and focus.

Dylan’s Sun, Venus and Jupiter are in Gemini in the 6th House  square his Mars is in Pisces in the 2nd House. His creative purpose being to serve society and his culture by gathering information, facts and data about the world around him, internalizing what he perceives, and then communicating his insights to other members of his culture and society at large in order to share what he perceives as truth. In this way, Dylan worked to improve himself and society through his art and music. Dylan’s Mercury is in Gemini in the 7th house square Neptune conjunct the NN in Virgo in the 9th House, symbolizing a need to collect and impart information to others through his poetry and quest for truth and knowledge.

If we reflect upon these planetary placements, it is easy to see in both Hitler and Dylan’s charts how each and every planet is influenced by the structure of the soul’s consciousness. An in-depth study of either of these charts would  reveal how this works in greater detail, but it only takes a brief look at the planets in houses to see how the structure of a soul’s consciousness serves as a backdrop for every energy in the chart and influences it accordingly.
« Last Edit: Jun 01, 2014, 08:08 PM by cat777 » Logged
robin
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 02, 2014, 07:24 AM »

Saturn our individuated consciousness, how we have come into this life as our conditioned self and how we are invited through the Saturn function to realign that conditioning to serve us in this current incarnation for our soul's evolution.

Saturn in Leo - Combining earth and fire...gives me a feeling of spirit (fire) being called to manifest, make real..also a natural inconjunct between Capricorn (Saturn ruler) and Leo indicating the need/crisis to manifest a social purpose through one's unique creativity and special expression of inner self otherwise Saturn will create a blocking/limitation to one's sense of specialness/unique talents and their ability to bring this forth.  A sense of special destiny within the consciousness. Saturn (our societal role) requires that we acknowledge and serve some higher social purpose, and when in Leo (high expression) it would be to create from who we truly are with our own unique gifts & talents...Through our development of our individual authority, leadership skills and self-determination through the maturation process.  This would be the high manifestation of this signature, where one would "shine" in the world, and express themselves with their own unique essence and specialness and become a light of generosity and strength of will to others, a leader.

How one in the consensus reality may express this signature...a conditioned consciousness to self-importance.  The narsissitic need to be catered to for one's specialness, and to be recognized.  Unable to see beyond one's own needs to receive "attention".  A very self orientated, subjective view of self.  Could be delusions of grandeur.  All of this really masking great insecurity and need for approval from others.  In a more elevated state of consensus, could manifest as a leader in a company, the CEO, the "rainmaker".  Where one's creative talents, although still limited to a very strong subjective awareness would be expressed.  The one in charge, and a certain acknowledgement from others as to his specialness. Still needing to be glorified, however.

In a more individuated state..the saturn in Leo soul would have a greater recognition of the self and it's needs.  Gaining a greater awareness of one's true gifts/talents how they can be expressed for the betterment of all.  Being aware of own's talents/gifts in a more conscious way, self-reflection & objectivity.  Beginning to see that one's uniqueness/talents come to us, but are not ours to own and possess.  Awareness perhaps of the divine and soul.

Note:  Where I get confused with this signature is when in Saturn...would this naturally mean that this soul has been strongly conditioned to this way of consciousness...so would you then believe there would have been some strong "acting out" for attention in the past and now the soul is realigning through Saturn this conditioning process?  What if the soul was in an individuated state in past life?  Saturn shows how we have been conditioned and what new conditioning in order to evolve this evolutionary purpose in this life...can you expand on this pls. with this archetype.  

Thank you for this opportunity,

Robin  
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Robin
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 02, 2014, 09:07 AM »

Hi Rad and Group,

Saturn in Leo

Saturn is the structural nature of consciousness as it serves to define all of the other planets, signs and houses in the birth chart, reflecting the energetic conditioning of the Soul in this life. A relevant metaphor would be to visualize Saturn as the physical structure that houses the Soul. All the walls, beams and floors and ceiling would be built and infused with the energy of Leo, the planets within all of their houses and signs would be grounded in this Fire energy . Anytime the Soul takes a breath or a step, it is wrapped and supported with the fire energy of Leo. Even if the Soul had zero other planets in Leo or in the 5th, Leo would still be active in every signal signature as it would be the floor beneath the Soul's feet and would permeate every thought and instinct within the Soul.

The primary driving force with Souls who have Saturn in Leo is the desire for Creative Self Actualization. These Souls came into this life with special sense of destiny and a desire for the freedom to initiate and cultivate their creative social purpose in the world as well as a need for freedom to discover their ‘specialness’ through experiences they are instinctively drawn to. They have a need to be recognized as special and unique.

Saturn in Leo Souls have a need to seize their own destiny and to become the ‘director of their own play’ as well as to create something that moves them from the heart..

Because the Sun is the ruler for Leo, and the Sun is the center of the universe, depending on the stage of evolution, the Soul can be very narcissistic, self centered and self focused where their creations, art, or whatever empire they are building, larger or small, comes first. They have a tendency to act as if everything revolves around them and their special destiny. There can be an unrelenting need for feedback and validation and in some cases it may never be enough, the famous bottomless pit feeling which again depends on their place on the wheel.

Although these needs can be temporarily fulfilled, the need for attention, love and adoration inevitably returns as many of these types of Soul are looking outside of themselves for that sense of feeling complete, with the exception of Souls in more advanced stages of evolution, it’s as if they are looking for their own reflection in the mirror of the eyes of others.

Souls with Saturn in Leo, as it conditions every other planet in the chart, in particular in the consensus state, believe that they are the source of their own creativity. In the individuated state they can begin to believe they are co-creators of their destiny and in the spiritual state that will feel that God ‘chose’ them for a specific purpose and because of this they will feel a great responsibility in manifesting and actualizing their creative life purpose.

If the Soul was born with Saturn Retrograde, this will play our quite differently, the feedback will typically come from within and their creative expression will be one of a non conforming, individuated kind. Unless they are in the consensus state, in this case then they will typically compensate by creating the appearance of normalcy 70 % of population. If in the individuated state they get off at thumbing the nose at the system. They will continuously be challenging the existing limitations of their own creations. They will also rebel against the status quo or anything that gets in the way of their individuation. The archetype of RX mirrors the archetype of Uranus ---)  LIBERATION because of this it induces the feeling of being different. Saturn Retrograde in Leo or any other sign says. “I am my own boss.” Evolutionarily or karmically, they need to define their own sense of personal authority, structural reality and ways of integrating into their culture as determined, Saturn, by them.

This may also be a soul who is learning how to self validate because of too much need for feedback from others in other times ..this all depends on the evolution of the Soul and the nature of the Soul itself.


Saturn in Leo can be natural leaders and pioneers. They have a tremendous strength and inner will. They are loving and giving and yet can overly expect attention and love from others in return and their sense of self and inner sense of security depends on this feedback, love and validation. Because of this, they can be quite demanding. They are magnetic and can have the King or Queen complex (unless Saturn is Rx). They have a need for acknowledgement and flattery and are very protective of those close to them.

These chosen professions and expressions of the Soul are some examples and will vary depending on stage of evolution.

Saturn in Leo in the 1st  - Pres of a nation or a company they built, In charge of other own creative process, their own boss ex author Stephen King, self employed, self created fame.He started his writing career when he was 12 when he and his father bought a mimeograph machine, and they put together a paper they sold for five cents an issue.
Saturn in Leo in the 2nd - Wall Street Money Market owner or manager, Famous Musician an example of this symbol in reverse, ie Saturn in Taurus in the 5th, a Leo house, is Bob Dylan.
Saturn in Leo in the 3rd - Author of children’s books, a playwright, public speaker.
Saturn in Leo in the 4th -  Designer of women’s royal costumes for theatre or the movies
Saturn in Leo in the 5th - Artist, Famous athlete ex Nolan Ryan
Saturn in Leo in the 6th - Cardiac nurse..or a heart doc
Saturn in Leo in the 7th - Diplomat for example Secretary of State which is the highest ranking diplomat responsible for foreign affairs and nurturing relationships with allies. John Kerry has Saturn in the 7th but it is in Gemini, However, Jupiter in Leo in the 9th (symbols for inernational relations. NN in Leo with Pluto in 8th.
Saturn in Leo in the 8th - Therapist for the broken hearted, Could also be a person with power and status in the government of France.
Saturn in Leo in the 9th - Teacher, Shaman, Ex. International politician (Saturn) , Hilarie Clinton or teacher of natural law - JWG (Saturn Rx in Leo)
Saturn in Leo in the 10th - Police chief, Politician
Saturn in Leo in the 11th - Leading creator of a non profit organization for children’s causes, could also be an inventor or a innovator for example in computers or even cardiac technology.
Saturn in Leo in the 12th - Actor ex Glenn Close has Saturn in Leo in the 12th


Peace,
Kristin
« Last Edit: Jun 02, 2014, 09:59 AM by Kristin » Logged
Skywalker
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 02, 2014, 10:45 AM »

Hi Rad and Group,

Thank you all for the opportunity to practice and grow!

Saturn in Leo

Saturn in Leo will be primarily defined by the consciousness of the Soul´s desire to be CREATIVE. Within this desire to be creative is the need for authority, personal authority in order for the Soul to be able to express itself in ways that will crystalize and define it´s special gifts and talents, cycle after cycle, experience after experience. Saturn in Leo will be defined, in general as a consciousness that demands to be respected and honored, to be acknowledged as important and special for some specific reason that the individual feels is his or her mission to accomplish. Saturn in any sign is where we want to structure and solidify certain qualities and in Leo, it´s the sense of specialness and creativity which at best, is solidly defined. In a distorted or negative expression of the Leo archetype, Saturn can be overbearing in it´s desire to be respected and seen as the leader or as the best. It can hold onto authority in tyrranical ways in a ridiculous attempt to affirm it´s power or authority and “special” gifts.

Saturn in Leo can also experience the limitation within it´s society of birth and Earth reality as it is necessary to express itself within a certain order or structure. It will have to bend it´s will so to speak in order to benefit, in some way, the society it finds itself in, in order to get the recognition and positive feedback it desires. If all the effort (Saturn) is only for self gratification or aggrandization (Leo) then the efforts result in frustration. Leo is naturally inconjunct Capricorn in the Zodiac and creates a natural crisis in consciousness in order to align the will of the individual with the regulations, traditions and customs of the national mainstream consensus society. Saturn in Leo is learning about authority and how to command and create with integrity and maturity. Essentially to use it´s leadership abilities to direct others in responsible ways or to use it´s creativity in ways that can express something of value, with meaning and purpose, which can metamorphose limitations and add creativity to evolution itself for the whole, or the group (the fixed cross).

Being part of the fire triad, Leo needs the freedom for independent self actualization (Aries) and hopefully gives it creative power, raw potential and passionate drive, fixated on a purposeful creative outcome (Leo), needing the same freedom relative to mental and philosophical beliefs in order to be able to vizualize (Sagittarius) and give deep cosmological, religious or metaphysical qualities to that which is being creatively expressed. Sagittarius will add belief and confidence in the self in order to actualize it´s desires.

Saturn in Leo will inherently experience tension as the individual will typically desire to be in control and  express itself to the max at the same time. Leo is inherently fixed on whatever it wants to express and Capricorn is inherently vested in controlling and defining what can and can´t be done, what the rules are. This can create a consciousness that attempts to create rules for everyone around them, in order to benefit themselves. It can also lead to frustration as the expressive side of Leo is dampened by the coldness and restrictive nature of Saturn and it´s tendency towards reflection. Many times as children these Souls attract cold or austere parents that discipline harshly and give them very little personal recognition or the time of day even. Parents who expect a lot from them, parents who don´t know how to educate the children or who suppress them in various ways can also be potential realities that the Saturn in Leo Soul creates, in order to learn how to take charge of it´s creative destiny and build whatever it desires. Of coure there are also children that have a very beneficial structure to express themselves within with Saturn in Leo, one size doesn´t fit all.


Saturn correlates to fear, conscious fear and to crystalized structures we have created with the boundaries formed by the fears, which define the limits or boundaries themselves. As an example is if we go for a swim in the Ocean, we will define a safe limit or boundary, essentially defining how far we safely feel we can go, remembering Saturn/Capricorn/10th house archetypes all opposte the Moon/Cancer and the 4th house archetypes which correlate to our ongoing, moment to moment emotional states and conscious security needs.

The inconjunct to Pisces and the 12th house correlates to the ongoing dynamic tension that is constantly reminding the individual with Saturn in Leo or any planet in Leo that it needs to also be divinely inspired if the creations themselves are to serve any good or God. The inconjunct to Pisces shows that the Leo archetype will be disillusioned time and time again until the life purpose or purpose of how the will is applied (Aries/Mars) in order to create (Leo/Sun) that which is coming from the depth of the Soul (Pluto/Scorpio), is aligned with some form of higher power, higher guidance, higher good, God, the Source or whatever you wish to call this energy which we are all part of (Pisces).

Until there is this alignment, the Soul will continually create crisis and disillusionment as it is rejected and ridiculed and realigned with a desire to create a structural reality that is itself defined by some form of service to society (Capricorn) and to the higher power (Pisces). Until this happens within the consciousness of the individual person or Soul, their creative abilities and ability to live a life with pleasure and meaning will be limited. Their creations will not get the feedback they desire, they themselves will frustrated as all their efforts are washed away by life and it´s circumstances or ridiculed and criticized by others.

Saturn in Leo is for the Souls that wish to lead in some way, for Souls that have within themselves the desire to be acknowledged as special in this lifetime and who desire to leave a form of legacy behind. Again the question is simply “are you doing this for your own self importance or is your life purpose divinely inspired for the betterment of society and/or others?”

Saturn in Leo will be naturally attracted to pyramid type of structural realities in which the individual with this placement will commonly desire to be at the top of the pyramid at all costs, this can reflect a superiority complex. We can see these types of structures in government, military and corporate hierarchies, in which those at the apex of the pyramid are untouchable while those on the lower levels take responsibility and blame for any shortcomings or failures. Those at the apex of the pyramid are safely guarded from the responsibility of their actions, at least in their own structural reality and belief systems. Of course in actual truth these Souls are simply going to be creating other structural realities in which they are karmically bound to the very qualities they express, whether they are visibly accountable for their actions in the “outer world” or not. Basically if they are greedy and power hungry and commit crimes against humanity with no apparent repercurssions, then they will simply create the structural reality within their own consciousness of being greedy and power hungry. Saturn crystalizes and if people desire to manifest and express greed then that is what they will create for themselves.

Saturn in Leo to me, seems to be connected to co-creation itself as Leo is creativity of all types and Saturn is responsibility therefore, we have a symbol for a Soul who desires to be aware and responsible for that which it co-creates or has co-created for itself in the past, that has led up to the present circumstantial reality it experiences.

Saturn in Leo is about creating responsibly towards the self as it is always the self that experiences and becomes that which it desires to create in the first place.

The Soul with Saturn in Leo may attract others or circumstances which are very judgemental of the individual itself. This is a reflection (Saturn) of the Soul´s desire to be responsible for that which it creates and seems to be the Soul attracting others, in order to help define the boundaries of what it should and shouldn´t do, in order to creatively actualize itself. This can mean being born into family environments which are very critical or judgemental. Being conditioned from youth in various ways can also be another manifestation of this dynamic, including positive conditioning such as being trained to develop certain qualities and talents that can be a reflection one of the parents professions. Something that comes to mind is being born as the son or daughter of an entertainer and then becoming one too.

Physically, Saturn in Leo can correlate to heart problems as Saturn correlates to the valves in the heart and Leo, the Sun and the Fifth house archetypes all correlate to the physical heart itself. Dependong on the integrity (Saturn) of the individual there can either be a strong heart or a weak one with restriced blood circulation, which in turn effects directly the vitality of the physical body. The eyesight may also be effected and the individual with Saturn in Leo may experience distorted perception leading to problems with his or her vision, which can ultimately stem from a lack of will power to focus their personal energy (Sun/Leo) in a truly conscious and creative way. Depression can also be a result of the Soul with Saturn in Leo not doing anything of true meaning professionally that reflects it´s core sense of specialness as Saturn correlates to the outer layer of the root chakra. If there is an unsatisfied sense of purpose that leads to cyclical depression it can become chronic and also manifest as lower back pain.

Part of the reason why a Soul would be born with Saturn in Leo, is in order to strengthen the focus on creative self actualization and one´s ability to be someone special, that actually contributes to the benefit of the world in some way, thru their inherent creativity and/or leadership abilites.

A potential point of tension can be when the Soul desires to be in total control of it´s reality or circumstances as Saturn in Leo itself reflects the need to establish boundaries of what one can do and what one cannot do. Boundaries relative to what is positive self expression and what is detrimental to the self and to others and, these boundaries will only be clearly defined with real hard won experience. Within these dynamics can be the attempt of the individual to dominate and control others in ridiculous and unbearable ways that can be extremely self centered and plain childish.

Remembering that Leo is opposite Aquarius, the natural Yod to leo from Pisces and Capricorn will humble the Soul until it gains a natural objective awareness of others, the various social groups and the individuals that make up those groups. These people are all just as important or unimportant as the Saturn in Leo person and until he or she develops the understanding that power and authority are for those that wish to serve others in some way, their desires and reality will be met with resistance from others or circumstances, karmic blowbacks, frustrations, set backs and so on.

When Saturn in Leo does desire to use his or her natural leadership qualities and abilites for the betterment of others, then the awareness will create a structural reality as to support their ongoing desire for growth and power to create or lead. Circumstances will simply support the Soul as it gives to others whatever they need and, in turn is feeding it´s own desire for recognition, simply by seeing the happiness of others getting what they need.

At the highest level of awareness and integrity, Saturn in Leo will correlate to a Soul that actively dedicates itself to co-creating existence itself, guided by natural laws and principles that reflect the Source in various ways. The Soul will desire to build in ways that reflects Leo´s natural generosity and life giving qualities, like the Sun that feeds all life forms in the Solar system with it´s light.
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Katherine
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2014, 01:36 AM »

Hi Rad,
I'm writing this from my phone as my internet connection and/ or airport has ceased to function.
Not sure because this is public access- I'm still traveling since NORWAC.
I apologize that I will be late but, I will try again tomorrow.
God bless,
Katherine
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robin
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2014, 09:16 AM »

Thanks all for your insights.  One other point I feel is very important to discuss would be the souls coming in with Leo in Saturn, were not recognized/felt loved and acknowledged, and therefore would have developed a poor "self image".  If we are to help clients, I think it important to really keep that in mind when looking at Leo energy (especially in Saturn) and the individuated consciousness and how we have been conditioned (implying past dynamics)to speak to the clients about their insecurites and how they may be "acting out" and preventing/limiting their potential (depending on house placement, aspects etc.)  How they may actually be "hiding" their gifts or pushing people away (11th house) finding their group and making their contribution.  My feeling is that many times Leo energy is very misunderstood and can be, of course, extremely off putting if its origin is not understood.  Thank you.  Robin
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Robin
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 04, 2014, 07:13 AM »

Hi Skywalker, Kristin, Cat, Katherine, and Robin ....

I will need to temporarily suspend our Saturn thread because I am helping Linda and others put together a book on the Soul's Journey Through Time which is based on JWG"S research of over thirty years that involved two systems that allows for a pinpointing of specific prior lives that the Soul is drawing upon in the current life to further it's ongoing evolutionary needs. One of those systems in the pioneering work that he did on geodetic equivalents.  This task will be intense and take much time to do. So this then requires a suspension of this thread until it is done. I apologize for that as each of the work that you have all contributed already is really good.

So when it is done I do plan to restart this thread. If you, or anyone else, have questions on Saturn based on what we have discussed so far please do not hesitate to ask.

God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 04, 2014, 09:45 AM »

Hi Rad,

No problem, just let us know when it´s time to resume the thread. The book on Geodetics sounds like a great idea so good luck with that. If you or Linda need anything just ask.

All the best
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Wei
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 11, 2014, 08:07 PM »

Hi Rad, i have some questions about how saturn in a country's natal chart imprint it's people's consciousness?

1 Does saturn in a country's natal chart condition all souls who choose to be borned here in a collective way (does everyone born with certain consciousness or learn it during their life)?

2 What's the relationship between country's saturn and individual's saturn placement? Would saturn in a country's natal chart be the basic standard/structure for each soul to work in their own way?

3 Saturn plancement for a country can be really effective or restricted, but who make this choice? Saturn also correlates to certain leadership type of this country? Does leader make choice which way it goes?

Thank you!

Wei
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Rad
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« Reply #25 on: Jun 12, 2014, 07:43 AM »

Hi Wei,

Hi Rad, i have some questions about how saturn in a country's natal chart imprint it's people's consciousness?

1 Does saturn in a country's natal chart condition all souls who choose to be borned here in a collective way (does everyone born with certain consciousness or learn it during their life)?

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Yes, Saturn as a defining principle of how a collective of people, Souls, are organized by those defining principles affects and conditions all Souls that are born into whatever country. All Souls in whatever country of birth are conditioned by those defining principles that correlate with the 'reality, Saturn, of that country. As children, Moon, Cancer, and the 4th house progressively mature and become older they are of course aware of the country of birth because of the 'reality' of that country. Remember 'reality' is a function of collective beliefs. Thus, each individual is exposed to those collective beliefs that define the nature, reality, of whatever country. All Souls, children, must learn about that reality whether they like it, or agree with it, or not.

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2 What's the relationship between country's saturn and individual's saturn placement? Would saturn in a country's natal chart be the basic standard/structure for each soul to work in their own way?

**********

This depends on the evolutionary stage of development for any given Soul. Remember roughly 70% of all Souls are in a consensus, Saturn, state of evolutionary development. Thus, these Souls will more or less agree with the defining principles, Saturn equaling reality, of the country of birth. The social pressure to 'conform', Saturn, thus affects the remaining 30% of the Souls that are not in a consensus evolutionary state. So for those in the consensus state the individual relationship between their Saturn's, and the Saturn of the country of birth, is defined in the context of that country of birth: the collective Saturn.  For the other 30% their individual Saturn's interact with the country's Saturn in the ways that are defined by the nature of those specific evolutionary states: individuated that has three categories, and the spiritual state that also has three categories.

************

3 Saturn plancement for a country can be really effective or restricted, but who make this choice? Saturn also correlates to certain leadership type of this country? Does leader make choice which way it goes?

***********

The choices are made by those groups of people, and the leaders within that group, at the time a country becomes a country, i.e. China The People's Republic of China was formally established on October 1, 1949, 3:01:36 pm CCT, Beijing, China. Yes, the leaders make the choices which way any country goes: is defined.

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God Bless, Rad


* china-horoscope.gif (11.47 KB, 464x463 - viewed 75 times.)
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Wei
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« Reply #26 on: Jun 13, 2014, 01:38 AM »

Thank you Rad, this is so clear!
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Sunyata
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« Reply #27 on: Jul 02, 2014, 09:41 PM »

Hi Sunyata,

Hi Rad,

Thank you for beginning this discussion on Saturn.

I have a question about the 'structural nature of consciousness that the Soul determines from life to life'. There are plants on Earth that are able to alter our consciousness, plants like Peyote, Ayahuasca, Marijuana, Mushrooms and others. Some are used recreationally and some ceremonially by shamans and others.

I guess my question is what are the effects of using these in terms of how they affect the structure of consciousness from life to life.... do they act as a dissolving agent to the structure of consciousness?

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It depends on the type of plants, and it's not a matter of dissolving the structure of consciousness but expanding it. Of the plants you named all do this except marijuana.

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God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad.

I meant to follow up this question about this with regards to marijuana. In my experience, marijuana seems to act like a magnifier of whatever the individual is focusing on within its conscious awareness. If there are negative thoughts, or I am around negative people,  marijuana magnifies those thoughts and experiences and the experience becomes negative.  If I am under the influence of marijuana within the context of the forest or within nature and my thoughts are clear, I am able to perceive nature in a more profound way that I wouldn't have perceived it otherwise. The sounds of birds are more magnified, the river, the wind, every element....through that magnification and coming from a clear space new perceptions are achieved and brought forth. Sometimes I have deep clarity of concepts within EA that I don't think I would have seen otherwise. I also find it to be a 'creative assistant' when I am working on artwork. In my experiences I have found it to have a great 'potential' to assist with understanding.

I have read in books, for instance one called 'Plants of the Gods', that shamans in China used to use marijuana in combination with ginger to 'see into the future.' And there are other examples in there of other shamanistic uses. One of my questions is, if you are able to, can you expand on the difference between what marijuana does to the structure of consciousness compared to the others (peyote, ayahuasca, mushrooms) as far as if it does not expand consciousness, what does it do to consciousness?

Thank you and God Bless.
Sunyata
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Rad
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« Reply #28 on: Jul 03, 2014, 09:21 AM »

Hi Sunyatta,

Marijuana can do exactly as you described. The core and critical difference is that the use of all the other plants that you were on your list is that that expand the consciousness wherein the perception of the totality of Nature is realized. This includes what is unseens or invisible to most as in all the various forms of astral agents, and the knowledge of all the natural laws therein. Within this the capacity to 'see' the very nature and structure of the Manifest Creation. All of these plant agents have a resident 'spirit' within them that the Soul must first form a relationship to, which when achieved, then serves a a kinda 'door' through which all is then realized.

God Bless, Rad
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Sunyata
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« Reply #29 on: Jul 04, 2014, 01:43 AM »


Thank you Rad for explaining so clearly.

Sunyata
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