The Nature of Evil and Its Influence in the Horoscope
Jeffrey Wolf Green, at Astro 2000, April 2000
(Jeffrey) We’re at the Astro 2000 lectures; we’re in Colorado. My name is, uh, Bob Smith.
Ok, so we’re going to be doing a talk today on a topic that may not be so easy to deal with, dealing with the nature of evil. So what we’re going to be doing is showing from an astrology point of view where the nature of evil and its influence can affect any of us, from the point of view of astrology. In anything that I do, when you have a question, please ask me at the moment that you have your question.
So the very first thing to understand about evil is that what we what we want to call evil, the energy of, consciousness of, was put in motion simultaneously at the very moment of the manifested creation itself. So what this then means is that what we want to call God or the Source is, itself not perfect. And again, if you want to debate such a thought, simply ask yourself a Piscean question, “How can a perfect anything create an imperfect anything?” So, in essence, the very creation point is born, relative to what we can call imperfection, and, therefore, we have the principles of duality as a direct reflection of that creation once it was set in motion. And relative to that natural law of duality – night/day – male/female – etc., we also have the natural duality in polarity of what we call good – God, and evil. It is simultaneous to the creation point. So we have an energy then, which we can also use the terminology of consciousness, that we can call evil. So now we need to examine its essence, its nature, how it operates and why.
The essence of evil – try to look at this way – that evil and its existence is in fact dependent, dependent on the maintenance of all human illusion, all human delusion that is considered reality. The existence of evil is dependent, dependent on keeping any soul and/or all souls away from, separate from the very Source/God/Goddess itself. Try to imagine if you can, a moment in time in which every human soul on our planet – at the same second – simply desired to know God and God only. Imagine that if you can, right then and there (chuckling, yea right), right then and there, the very existence of evil itself would not exist. Within this is the obvious Natural Law – evil will be sustained until the very Source/God/Goddess itself evolves to its own perfection, at which point there will be no necessity for a manifested creation. That in essence destroyed.
Since we’re all part of the creation, we are all susceptible to not only the influence of God itself, the origin of us, but also susceptible – that is to say, we can be influenced by evil itself, since that is itself part of the total creation that we, ourselves are interfacing and part of, and this is what we’re going to be talking about today – the very nature of the influence of evil. And the way that we’re going to be talking about it is in the most common ways that most human beings can experience it. In other words, we’re not going to be spending a lot of time talking about the extremity of evil, as in an evil spirit possessing another soul. These things certainly exist, but it’s not something we’re going to spend a lot of time with today. It would appear to me much more practical to be able to understand how this influence can come into our life in ways that influence us – in very ways that we don’t even recognize. And to me, that’s what the intent of such a lecture is – is to help put light in an area in which most of us are utterly unaware.
How does this actually work – we’ll make simple example. Every human being on the planet – given the fact that we have a lot more lifetimes than the one being currently lived – although one is enough, right? – but, the point is that because we’ve all had a plurality of lifetimes, all of us in some sort of way, are going to have an area in us that is most emotionally weak, i.e. emotional fear. Let’s make an example. Let’s say person X, let’s say they happen to have Venus in Scorpio, and let’s say one of their deepest emotional fears is the fear of loss, betrayal and abandonment, which would then impact on their ability to totally trust…anybody. And for the sake of making an example, let’s say that at a particular moment in time that person’s partner via their behavior/circumstance, the very nature of which now triggers these particular fears and emotional weak points. First, that person has dynamics that are intrinsic to their self – in this case, the fears of loss, abandonment or betrayal, impacting on their ability to trust. Now, given the nature of the trigger from the partner equaling the circumstance, which is triggering these fears, this is exactly where evil can then influence the individual. How it is then being influenced is to take the existing dynamics of that soul to then take them over in such a way as to distort them, intensify them, magnify them in such a way that, if you will, the genius of evil is that the individual him- or herself would not even be aware of this fact, because after all it’s their own dynamics. That’s the genius. You think about that for a moment. In such a way that as these natural dynamics are then taken over, intensified, magnified, distorted – the person them self thinking “these things are real,” – now they’re projecting what is now a reflection of this distortion – magnification, intensification – which is now being projected on the partner them self. So, in essence, the person now projecting all kinds of content, relative to what has been taken over, in such a way as to put that content between those two people.
The point here is that the existence of evil is dependent on the maintenance of separation – separation from God – separation from anything that will allow the person to grow, to improve their self, or to have an active desire to know God itself. Evil will always create the opposite reality intended. You think about this fact. For example, we had a client the other day; she’s standing in the shower thinking the following thought, “God is good,” and yet out of her mouth are the words, “God is evil.” Evil will always create the opposite reality intended.
So, then we look at this and we say OK, we look at this from the natal birth chart point of view – we all happen to have one – where are these natural influences occurring in any chart? Now, most of us have realized or learned in some fashion, that the archetype of Scorpio has some sort of relationship to this consciousness or energy that we want to call evil. And, indeed, it does. So this would then mean what? If you happen to have Scorpio planets, the influence comes through there, through the very nature of the planets themselves. You’re going to have a sign on your eighth house cusp, which is a natural Scorpio house. That sign and the location of its planetary ruler can also serve as vehicles or areas in which this influence can take place. We’re going to have the sign Scorpio somewhere, and it’s going to be ruled by, of course, Pluto; and therefore, the influences can occur here. But, we’ve also made a pretty interesting discovery in the last three to four years – and remembering that the essence of astrology is based on correlation and observation – -that’s why it’s a natural science. So, we’ve spent the last three or four years actually observing this particular point; and I would say, based on the observations to date, that what I’m about to suggest to you by way of an archetypal symbolism in this point, is really valid, and what this point becomes is actually an asteroid, not a planet, and, of course, it’s the asteroid, Lucifer.
Now think of this: 99 percent of the action or energy of evil is unseen – unnoticed. Now think about that logically. If evil was so apparent and we could see it and know it, what do you think its chances would be of sustaining its own energy? Of course, you’d want to kill it. 99 percent of the energy of evil is unseen. The asteroid Lucifer is in the middle of how many other asteroids? Do you see the symbolism to being unseen? So the point here is that all of us are going to have a natal Lucifer somewhere in your horoscope. And the bottom line is that – at least from the observations-correlations of the last three to four years – that this particular asteroid seems to embody within one archetype, the essence of what we want to call the energy and consciousness of evil. And the point here is that wherever your natal Lucifer stands – house – sign – it will have its own planetary ruler, and that planetary ruler will be located in its own house and sign, making its own aspects – these become the primary areas in which this influence of evil can be experienced. Now, if you understand the origin of this word, Lucifer, it’s a Latin word, and it actually translates into the “bringer of the light.”
Now, look at the paradox. Let’s say, for example, we have a natal Lucifer somewhere, and it’s exactly in that house and sign and the aspects to it, that this influence of evil can be experienced by the soul in such a way that the very nature of the influence is keeping the individual – relative to the idea “opposite reality intended” – keep them ensnared or entrapped in whatever the particular nature is of their own delusions and illusions, which are now being caused and intensified by this influence. Now, here’s the radical thought – the solution to the issue is in the symbol itself. In other words, that natal Lucifer by house, sign, aspects, becomes also the solution, in the sense that once you realize that this where the influence is occurring and you make a conscious effort to deal with that – to be perpetually aware of it – you are simultaneously eliminating that influence. And once you eliminate that influence, what is then on the other side of it? The Light – the Truth – God itself. So the solution is right in the symbol. Do you understand this issue? Now, is this stuff making sense? You’re all so quite. (Laughter)
Audience: I was going to ask – is there a program, or an ephemeris for Lucifer?
(J): There is a program you can download off my Web site that will list – you can actually calculate over 7,000 asteroids, singularly – for any date and time, and it does include Lucifer.
(A): That’s for the natal, what about ……..(inaudible) and transits?
(J): You just calculate the current date. This program will allow you to calculate to any point in time. And to show you a simple example, bringing it up to this moment in time, the current transit of Lucifer, right as we speak, is right around 18 degrees of Gemini, and the way that we can notice this is – it’s a really simple thing – and keeping in mind we have this natural law of duality or polarity, the polarity of Sagittarius to Gemini – where evil would exist through Gemini via the transit collectively speaking, individually speaking, is if we allow our self to get reduced through circumstantial triggers to a reactive consciousness. It would be in a reactive consciousness that this influence would exist, or could exist, versus the Sagittarian polarity, which would be the antidote, Sagittarian polarity here would mean a considered response, which is very different than a reactive state of consciousness. So, right now, the genius of evil, so to speak, via Gemini is induced once we allow ourselves to get reduced to a reactive consciousness through circumstantial causes. Because in that state, you could end up saying things or doing things that, after the fact, when you got away from the circumstance, they’re going to make you feel really darn funny, and it’s that feeling of funny that is your empirical evidence of the influence. (Long silence from audience)
(A): Repeat the last few sentences you said.
(J): The last few sentences?
(A): Well, not verbatim.
(J): Uh – it’s in the reactive consciousness, induced by circumstantial trigger, that if you want to empirically validate the influence of evil, let’s say you got reduced to a reactive consciousness relative to a circumstantial trigger, you’re now removed from that circumstance…you’re looking back at your behavior and there’s things that you may have said or done, via the reactive consciousness, to now make you feel really funny – it’s that right there that’s the empiricism of the influence. That make sense to you?
(J): I mean right now we’re all experiencing this, and how many in your own lives, if you choose to be honest, know exactly what I’m talking about? (A show of hands). A lot of you are choosing not to be honest. (Laughter).
(A): When you say ‘funny,’ what exactly do you mean by funny? Funny how? (Many people in audience talking).
(J): You’re all talking at once, and I have no idea what you’re saying.
(A): What do you mean by ‘funny,’ Jeff.
(J): ‘Funny?’ It makes you feel weird about yourself. You get a funny feeling or crawling skin effect, or “Gosh, why did I do that?” or a creepy feeling. That’s the influence.
(A): As I’m understanding it, you’re saying, evil has its influence wherever you’re experiencing fear, and certainly the position of Lucifer would not be the only place for that.
(J): I’m sorry?
(A): Are you saying that Lucifer is the only place you experience that fear? I think….
(J): No, we’re also talking about Scorpio. We’re just saying now in one archetype Lucifer seems to embody all of this…in one asteroid; and you will find that if you place that in your chart and you look back on your life and you focus on it with these ideas, it will prove itself.
(A): With Lucifer at 18 Gemini right now, will you tell us how long it takes through the (inaudible).
(J): It stays in one sign three years.
(A): It’s opposite Chiron right now.
(J): It’s opposite Chiron?
(A): It’s conjunct Hades.
(J): It’s conjunct Hades? Perfect. I mean, some of you people are students in my school, and for those who already know, I have a message board on my Web site for my students, and within this last week, after what – it’s been posted two years now, this message board – just in this last week, there must have been, “What do you think, Kim, seven or eight messages around evil?” All in one week. And it’s conjunct, as you put it, Hades. There you have it. I mean, is this coincidence or synchronicity?
(J): Now we also have to understand that another way that we can be influenced by evil is when a person reaches a point in their life in which they feel extremely defeated, extremely futile, possibly suicidal, an increasing loss of will to live, and this sort of routine – when a person’s reduced to this sort of psychological reality – this becomes a causative factor in which they can attract to them self based on that vibration, what are called agents of evil – agents of evil. This means souls that have actually made contracts with evil. The soul will make a contract with evil in order to gain, in quotes, “supernatural power.” And when a soul makes such a contract, despite our compassionate hearts to the contrary, such a contract cannot be broken…until evil itself does not remain. You think about this logically: if it was so easy to break such a contract, who in the world would not make it – in order to gain these powers? It would be like having a new lollipop, and this is why the contract is, in fact, irrevocable. And, as a part of making that contract, a soul must make a promise to this consciousness we call evil, and part of that promise is promising to attract other souls to make the same contract. So, when a soul is reduced to this sort of psychological reality, they create a very specific vibration that emanates from their psychic structure that now becomes analogous to a fishing line in the water that attracts a specific fish, relative to the nature of the bait. So in this sort of way, it attracts what sort of fish? An agent of evil. And, the problem here is that this sort of people, when they initially appear in one’s life, will appear in an extremely seductive way. They promise the moon. They will help you in any way that you think that you need to be helped. And, part of that seduction in most cases is sexual seduction, because their intent is to hook you. And, if, in fact, you find yourself becoming susceptible to such an agent – well, guess what? You have now increased the degree of influence. All of us in general can be influenced, but once we start becoming susceptible with these agents, then, of course, we are making that susceptibility increase. I mean, look at it logically. The person’s in a state of despair – they’re looking for somebody to rescue them. Here comes an agent of evil. So, then the horrible thing in this is that – because those stories – I mean I could illustrate countless stories of how ugly that really gets – but, the point within that is that even when a soul is recognizing this, and let’s say they come to a point in time where they’re suddenly starting to realize, “Uh-Oh, this is an agent of evil,” or “This is really awful, it’s ugly, it’s evil – I’m going to make every effort I can to be free of it…cut this out,” – even then, that agent of evil will attempt to trail that soul – to remain attached to it, and there’s an intent why they do that. There’s an intent to recreate a sense of futility. “I’ve done everything I know how to do and yet this energy is still here.” The intent is to re-induce a state of futility, self-defeat, what’s the point? That’s the reason. Because again, the intent of evil is to create the opposite reality intended. I’m going to say that a thousand times. How many know what I’m talking about – through your own life experience? (A show of hands in the audience). Thank you for being honest. Thank you a lot. Most of the time in this sort of gig, people – first, they don’t want to hear it, and second, they want to sit on their hands and not be honest. But, thanks for being honest, because it happens to be reality.
(A): Well, can you explain a little more about why people have that response?
(J): Which response?
(A): Why people want to not believe it when people make a contract?
(J): Why? Because of the very essence of the energy itself. How many people purposely want to put their finger in a fire?
(A): So, they basically…. (something inaudible)…………….and do they know that they made a contract with evil?
(J): Yes, they do. In fact, in so many of these cases, even after they’ve made the contract, many such agents want to in their own way somehow be free of the contract, and what they will attempt to do is associate themselves with, in quotes, “spiritual types,” because somehow they think if they get closer to someone who is embracing or reflecting that God, it’s going to somehow help their situation. They really try to do that.
(A): Would you say this situation – (inaudible) – in Europe right now is going through the same thing?
(J): Absolutely. Absolutely. And see this whole thing when the Kosovo thing was happening? Do you know the technique in astrology called geodetic equivalents? It’s a way of relating the celestial position of the planets, the longitude, latitude lines of our earth – it’s like a variation of Astro-Cartography, but it’s a different measurement system developed by a genius named Johndro. And when you use his system, the transiting Lucifer was on those longitude, latitude lines when it was occurring, no different than in the 1920′s and Hitler, and this is why you saw a direct parallel to comparing this asshole over there to Hitler. Do you see it now? Is that coincidence or synchronicity?
Yes, your hand’s in the air, Clare.
(A): What if those people were truly repentant?
(J): They can be as repentant as they want to, but once they have made the contract, it is irrevocable. And the repentant ones equal this type that tries to associate with people who are really, truly living and defined by and for God. This is what they try to do.
(A): Are you saying that if a person dies, along normal reincarnation theories, it doesn’t change the contract – that when they’re reborn, they’re still under the contract?
(J): That’s exactly right. The contract only ends when God itself and Goddess itself evolves to its own perfection, in which case there’s no need for the manifested creation. Maurice.
(M): When a soul is exorcised, is it freed from its contract?
(J): When a soul is exorcised? Well, you’re talking about a different issue. You’re talking about a soul being possessed by evil. That’s a different issue than actually making the contract.
(A): Can you tell about someone whose made a contract with evil or being possessed by evil from a chart?
(J): From a chart? The symbols will be in place for that potentiality, but you cannot then make the following statement, “This is a contract,” without making the observation of the person, them self.
(A): How would you make that observation? How would you be able to observe that in someone?
(J): When you are around evil energy that’s made a contract, first thing that will happen is that you will have an instinctual reaction to it. You’re hair will stand on its end. You will feel funny feelings, like the skin wanting to crawl, or a repulsion-type energy. If you have sensitized smelling, you will smell sulfur. If you look in the eyes, you will see it. One of the hallmarks of a soul that’s a contract, when you look deeply in the pupils, the pupils become vertical – vertical – just like cats’ eyes. And they’ll do everything they can possibly do to shield your ability to see such a pupil.
(A): Your talking about making a deal with the devil, and there have been stories about this as far back as I can remember, making a bargain with the devil, but, what you’re saying is that some people are born …they’ve already made the deal.
(J): Prior to the current life, yea.
(A): And there’s no salvation for these people?
(J): I don’t make the rules, ma’am. (Audience laughter). It’s not me. (Applause). I’m just the reporter. (More laughter)
(A): Getting back to the victim mentality, that would be vulnerability, would you say that’s a place where evil, of course, that’s a place where evil – he has no say about that part.
(J): Yes, you’re right. When you have a victimized consciousness your susceptible in a very large way to this influence. And, you know, maybe I should share a little bit of my background so you know where I’m coming from. First, in this life I spent a great deal of time with the Navajo learning peyote religion, it’s essentially a Shamanistic universe, the essence of which are the principles of good and evil. I have learned a great deal in this way. A few lives back I was an actual Roman Catholic priest, and my job was performing exorcisms, and I actually lost my life because I could not acknowledge my own limitation. I was choked to death. That’s called direct experience. And beyond that, in the nature of the work that I’ve done in this life, God has sent me many, many people that have had this influence and destroyed because of that influence. I’ve had intimate partners that I’ve had to work to do exorcisms with for the same reason. So, I’ve had a lot of hands-on. So, I’m not the maker of the rules, I’m just reporting them.
(A): Can you use the Agni fire ritual to get rid of someone in your life…..if someone…..
(J): Yes, sure. If you’re feeling influenced by an evil person, you’re saying? Yes, you can use the Agni fire ritual to be free of it. Let’s say you’ve been with somebody in which you feel they’ve really influenced your consciousness through their own influencing by evil, yes? And let’s say you make the additional statement maybe you’ve had intercourse with them. You see, very few people understand the natural law behind intercourse, and it’s a really simple natural law that whoever we have sexual relations with, once we exchange our sexual fluids, keeping in mind that one’s entire evolutionary and Karmic background is reflected and contained in one’s sexual fluids, so once we have sex with somebody, we’re mutually osmosing one another. So, if we’re sleeping with somebody whose being influenced by or made the contract, what sort of energy are we bringing in to our self. So that Clare’s question is, “Is there a way to expunge or exorcise this influence or energy from our own being.?” And the answer, happily, is yes. (Laughter). There should be happy news, yea? It’s based on a ritual from India that’s 8,000 years old now; it’s called the Agni ritual – Agni’s the Sanskrit word for fire, and, of course, fire will purify anything. So, the way that one performs such a ritual – and this can be used, by the way to be Karmically free of anybody, not just evil stuff, anybody you feel you need to be Karmically free of – to sever the Karmic umbilical cord – you can use this ritual. And what this ritual involves is simply, whatever images come to you of the individual you’re trying to be free of, you project the imagery into the fire, and at the same time project the following thought, “I forgive you from the point of view of accepting the responsibility in my own actions.” In the end, who made the choice to be with that person? So, you project the imagery and that thought until there is no imagery left to project, and, when there’s no imagery left to project, and especially when you’re dealing with somebody who has influences of evil, you can anticipate demonic imagery that will replace the initial imagery of the current face. So, when the demonic imagery begins, you continue to project that also, and then, when there’s no imagery left to project, you have then severed the Karmic umbilical cord. That’s how it works….Um, where was I? Am I here?
(A): You were talking about Kosovo….the latitude and longitude.
(J): Oh, yea, we were talking about Kosovo. There is a direct correlation there, and so right now, now follow this out – I’m going to go ahead and make a prediction – this thing is moving into…it’s in Gemini, and Gemini through geodetic equivalents covers a zone that includes India and Kashmir. You starting to get it now?
(A): Nuclear weapons?
(J): You bet. It’s not going to necessarily…no…because right now, frankly, without you guys knowing it – I mean ask yourself the question, Why did Clinton at this point in time suddenly find himself in India and Pakistan; and, believe me, he delivered messages to these two leaders that have put them on notice that if they even make one quivering effort to push that button, guess what the United States is going to do? In any case, you will notice in the news over the next prevailing months, more and more issues around Kashmir and India because of this transiting of Lucifer. It will be another way for you all to prove it. Just watch the news. And, that’s actually part of what Nostradamus predicted, by the way. He predicted a time for this time, manifesting exactly in that spot, and he called it the red something or other, the red emperor, the red something. Any other questions on this stuff? Yea.
(A): It’s just that I wanted to ask a question about someone I counseled. This woman was part of some kind of cult, that after she left it, she realized it was evil, and she made the Agni ritual, and it seems that as she did it, members of the cult came and stole pictures in her house of herself. And the question is, after she has done this and cut the link, will these people who have stolen the pictures, could they have an influence on her?
(J): That’s what I just said, Maurice. These types of energies attempt to hang on – the intent again being to recreate a sense of futility. “I’ve done all of this that I know how to do to break free of it and yet it’s still here.” The intent is to induce futility, self-defeat, what’s the point…weakening the soul all over again, so, the answer’s ‘yes.’ She has to remain completely self-determined. The way to defeat evil – remembering it tries to create the opposite reality intended – is to remain focused on whatever one is focused on and to move in this way, and as evil tries to defeat it, creating the psychology of self-determination….no matter what. And then, that’s how you defeat this influence. You know, I’ll give you a little personal story to illustrate that. I was somewhere, and I was going to do a little talk on evil – this was actually done at Pluto School in Laguna Beach – and, there was something that happened the day before in class when I wasn’t there – an assistant was teaching – and there was certainly involving evil, so I had an intent to go there the next morning and talk to them about evil – I hadn’t to date – just to tell them what had happened and why, and that very night, around 3 in the morning – now keep in mind, I’ll just tell you my natal Lucifer – it’s in Virgo, in the 10th house – it squares my nodal axis – south node sag – north node Gemini – obviously I’m here to teach about this shit (audience laughter) – and, of course, my Virgo wants to avoid it. And I do want to avoid it. I don’t want to sit up here and talk about this stuff, believe me. So, anyway, it’s about three in the morning, and suddenly the famous room gets cold, you know, the ice cold thing, the sulfur smell, and the next thing I know, I’m being lifted off the bed – it’s like these two arms that are ice cold – I always burn a Jesus candle wherever I go, it’s just my thing – and suddenly the candle itself is being raised up as I’m being raised up – candle’s got fire in it – candle’s now falling on the floor – it’s crushed – now there’ a fire starting. I’m turned upside down – thrown on the broken glass, and then the words come into my head, We’ll bring Jesus to his knees. And at the same moment, I have an upside down J carved into my knee. A fact. I still have the scar. Now you tell me this is not the influence of evil. Because it was trying to create the opposite reality intended. I was going to go there the next day and talk about this stuff. You can imagine what I felt last night. (audience laughter). I had a lot of Thunderbird.
(A): You’re almost talking as if evil is an entity, an entity like a person, that we don’t have a choice almost. I mean do we have a choice in the face of evil?
(J): Of course you have a choice.
(A): But you said that if we made a contract with evil that ……
(J): The ones that make a contract have no longer any ability to make a choice. Have you made a contract? You have total free choice at your disposal then.
(A): I’m hoping that……
(J): You have not, so you have total free choice. (audience laughter) Just let me get through a few more points, so we can ask more questions. Now see, one thing we also want to do from the point of view of astrology, because most of us find ourselves in relationships, therefore, we have to look at this from a synastry point of view, composite point of view. Again, any of us can be influenced – unwittingly, I might add, and we can also bring where we’re being influenced in our own individual reality into the individual reality of somebody else we’re involved with and vice versa. And where you see this through synastry is simply by putting each other’s Lucifers where they land through synastry in each other’s charts. Conversely, this can also be exactly the same areas in which one or the other, or both, help one another become aware, consciously aware, that they are, indeed, being influenced there. And if that is now consciously embraced by the two people, and it is acknowledged, and the decision’s made to counteract it, then those very same symbols become the vehicle, through synastry in which the Godhead can be realized. You understand this point? Think about the magic in that – if you actually know this, and to date, very few astrologers know it. All of you now sitting in this room do, and hopefully, you will spread it, like dandelions in the wind – help defeat evil.
(A): Would that go for a composite Lucifer as well?
(J): Yes, exactly. That’s exactly the point. And this is where a couple can be undermined through the influence of evil, but it’s also the area in which they can know God together, once they understand this influence and what to do about it and they become free of it. Again, Lucifer can be the Bringer of Light.
(A): If you have somebody who is really know is getting close to the Light, it seems a lot of time, will they send someone to the partner of that person to have an influence by evil to stop the evolution of the one that’s getting very evolved – is that what you’re talking about?
(A): Let me see if I understand. You’re saying you know where the synastry points are, know where they hit your chart in comparison, and know those super points that partner from a synastry where it hits your chart and that’s where you can help each other, influence each other so you can (go toward) the Light together?
(J): Right. You’ve heard it for the first time in the history of astrology. This day. This minute.
(A): Have you found that drug addiction and alcoholism create worlds through which the influence can get in?
(A): In the experience you had the night before you were going to speak about evil, what did you do for yourself at that time?
(J): Before or after this event?
(A): Were you able to do anything during the event, and after the event, did you do something on behalf of yourself?
(J): Well, the answer in my case is that in dealing with such things for a lot of lifetimes, and so when this particular event occurred, I simply laughed at it – laughed it off, and then said Fuck you, and walked on. I have Mars on the South Node – Fuck you. (audience laughter)…..Sorry.
(A): You’ve asked us to spread these ideas – (turn over tape) – and I’m finding myself struggling really hard with the urge to run out of the room. I feel like I’ve been lost my innocence of these things…..
(J): Let’s run together.
(A): …and you’re suggesting that we need to hold our focus so we can keep moving in the direction we go without letting these influences sway us or move us. So how can you counsel us to help other people as we try to talk to them about these things, and they struggle with us, how can we …. I mean, you can say, well, you’re afraid to put your finger in the fire, and that’s true, but how can you encourage people to …..
(J): Why not?
(J): What do you mean, How? I’m sitting here doing it. What do you mean, How? What does that mean, How? I’m sitting here doing what I’m being asked to do. You know, in my personal reality, I wish I was somewhere else.
(A): I think she’s saying, How can she do it? when you said to spread it. I think she means that when you said to spread it, how can someone help their client – how can they do it?
(A): I’m quivering. I’m sitting here in my chair and I’m going like this ….
(J): Well then, why don’t you leave? I’m not making you sit here. I didn’t make you come through the door. You brought yourself here. And if you’re feeling the instinct to leave – leave. I mean if it’s really, truly disturbing to you, you probably should leave.
(A): I don’t want to fight it. I want to know.
(J): Well then, sit here. I’m basically in the same position as you, whether you realize it or not. I’m just doing what I have to do. I have Virgo – this thing standing in my 10th house. I’ve been avoiding it for the last three centuries, because of losing my life because of it. It’s taken me three life times to be able to sit here and do this again. I know exactly what you’re talking about.
(A): Have you found a correlation between the influence of evil in terms of Lucifer in aspect to Pluto and the nodes as a long-term influence?
(J): Yes. Absolutely.
(A): You mentioned that people that make a contract with evil, they do it to gain supernatural powers. What would be the supernatural powers? And can we in a counseling session – are there signals that where that client may be on that verge of making that contract?
(J): If they’re on the verge of making that contract, they’re probably not going to be in your counseling office in the first place. And the first part of your question was?
(A): The supernatural powers.
(J): An example is being able to make people think thoughts that they’re not actually thinking – to make them feel something that they’re not actually feeling – to say something that they don’t want to say – to experience a sensation that is not there, and so on. It’s like, I had a client in Hamburg that had survived a six-hour sadistic rape with soul that had made a contract with evil, and the things that she was subjected to in that sadistic rape, I won’t even tell you. I can’t even put the words on it. Part of what occurred to here because of the intensity was a stroke in the middle of it all. She couldn’t even remember her name afterwards, and yet, years later, based on this supernatural power, when she finally began to access the memory, she was talking about it in the following terms: It felt good. Now think of that. And this is a thought induced by that influence, to create the opposite reality intended. And I’ve actually done exorcisms again in this life. I’ve done them in this life again. So I know what I’m talking about. I don’t want to be here, believe me.
(A): You had mentioned when you’re accessing the fire ritual that one of the keys is first accepting your own responsibility for it, would you say that that reversal of that victim consciousness and accepting our own responsibility for attracting evil would help you to defend against it?
(J): Sure. I mean every single soul on earth is responsible for what they create – to every circumstance, every detail. And if you don’t accept this thought what are you looking at? You’re looking at a universe that’s just random. And I think that most of us have enough intuitive sense to realize that our universe – that the one that’s created is not a random universe – it is intrinsically based on chaos. I’ll get off my soapbox. Any other questions? Is this stuff still making sense?
(A): If our souls are evolving through consensus, and individuated and spiritual – through the three stages and the three subdivisions, what happens to a soul that’s made a contract with evil? How, or does their soul evolve?
(J): A soul evolves actually in a hierarchical sense relative to evil, and this starts in a very similar way no different than a person entering spiritual life. You have a layer based on a degree of realization or conscious awareness. You have some people that are out here on the spiritual life, you know, they start the centers and maybe they find them self finally in a monastery and they get ever closer to who that teacher is, and they them self become a teacher at some point in their own evolution – no different than a soul making a contract with evil. It’s given this much capacity at a certain point – it evolves through evil – it’s given more capacity. It’s the same thing in reverse!
(A): I just wanted to make a comment about the evil and the being responsible for it. The universe is a mutual support system. If this is what we decide to come in with, this is what the universe will support us with, that’s why the planets are aligned there. And so, if we make a contract with evil, the universe will support us in that evil, and only by going deep down in our hearts and knowing to the deepest, deepest, deepest level that we want out of that contract, can we gradually work out of it. But we can’t say we want it and get it, it’s only if we don’t want it and ask for the help to come in to get rid of the evil, but it’s there, and it’s there because in some way that’s the lessons we need to go through, and so it’s mutual support system.
(J): That’s right. And the thing to say within that for all of us to remember perhaps at this moment, if you truly desire to know God and God only or Goddess only, you cannot be destroyed by evil. A good way to illustrate this – maybe some of you remember the story of a guy named Kriyananda, who was a disciple of the great Yogananda – this man was a Taurus, by the way – and so he had in his own limited Taurus reality the belief that said there is no evil. He at that time was living on the grounds of Mount Washington with Yogananda, he had a little wood hut out on the lawn there, and so he did a little experiment with himself one night, and the experiment goes as follows: He said, Okay, if there is in fact really a thing called evil, I want it to prove itself to me right now. And right then and there, evil’s energy in its full-blown state surrounded that little hut, and it was so evident, that Kriyananda became so scared, almost like a little boy, that he was simply reduced to screaming for Yogananda to intervene – at which point, he did. And suddenly this energy that was permeating this little hut was instantly gone. True story. And from that second forward, Kriyananda then got every picture he could find of Yogananda and made his little hut like wallpaper. (audience laughter). True story.
(A): You’re speaking about people that have made a formal contract with evil, but I think each of us is not completely good. We all have our little quirks.
(J): Yea, sure.
(A): Is that a contract with evil?
(J): No, it’s not.
(A): What is it then?
(J): What is a contract? You ever sign your name on the dotted line? That’s called a contract. It’s not a complicated idea.
(A): I believe the lady asked if we had the contract with evil, but some of us have quirks, what would you call that – a quirky contract, or …..
(J): Why don’t we just leave that alone for the moment? I mean, sure we all have quirks – whoopee – that doesn’t equal evil.
(A): Would you say that there are leaders of cults who are evil?
(J): That are being influenced by evil?
(J): We’ll start with the very famous character named Rajneesh. We’ll start with another character called Rev. Moon, who pretends to be the reincarnation of Christ and he marries 2,000 people at a time while at the same time having orgies in his private residence, getting drunk.
(A): This is beyond just abuse of powers… this is….
(J): This is actual influence, because in essence these people are in quotes, representing God. And so if somebody representing God starts doing asshole-type things, what’s going to happen to the people who believe in that figure? Disillusionment. That’s the intent of evil.
(A): Are there any famous people who have made an actual contract with evil? Are there any examples we can try to relate that to?
(J): You mean historical famous people? Napoleon. Hitler. And many others.
(A): How can you tell the difference between evil and psychosis, or are they the same?
(J): Because the person who has psychosis is collapsing on them self. They’re not trying to hook people. They’ve got this true, mental chemical imbalance in their brain. They’re going to be treated as such. They’re going to probably be in an institution.
(A): Well, Jeffrey Dahmer is ….
(J): This is an influence of evil.
(A): Is that evil or psychotic?
(J): No. This is an influence of evil. He’s not psychotic. He was stable enough to be able to walk, talk, shit, eat, go to prison and get his brains beat out. He was not in an institution. He was able to be cognizant and rational enough to hide this from the police for how long? To make conscious plans to go hook these young men. A psychotic can’t do that.
(A): And Dahmer is now claiming he is now saved.
(J): Opposite reality intended.
(A): Is war itself an influence of evil?
(J): War? War. Uh, no, this to me is just more in the area of human delusion, relative to egocentric problems – and the whole issue of superior/inferior. That’s not to say that certain people like a Hitler that can instigate a war on an individual basis is not influenced by or making contract with – but the general phenomenon of war and all the people that fight them, you can’t say all those soldiers. Are we done yet? I’m trying to run to.
(A): You’re saying that not all evil influences are possessions? Is there a distinction?
(J): Possession’s a very rare phenomenon in reality.
(A): What is it?
(J): It occurs when a soul is so intrinsically weakened, for whatever reasons – and it can also be physical sickness – in which they become so weakened, that the energy of evil, the consciousness of and entity, can actually enter that psychic consciousness because of the weakness and take it over – actually use it. That is then called a possession.
(A): Would suicide be considered evil?
(J): 99.9 percent of all evil is done because a consciousness has reached a point where there’s an absolute loss of the meaning in life. Any soul that loses absolute meaning equals a consequence called suicide. In order for you to sustain a life, you have to have some degree of meaning for it. Where there’s an actual loss of meaning, the consequence will be suicide. That is a psychological act born out of patriarchal reality, creating distortions of natural law, leading to these states.
(A): If you suspect someone of being an evil influence on you, I mean is there something definite that you can do in terms of looking at their chart, rather than just deciding you’re paranoid? Is there some proof that you can find in the chart?
(J): Somebody paraphrase that for me?
(A): Oh, she said, If you suspect some one of influencing you – an evil person influencing you – but you’re not sure, rather than walking around paranoid, can you look in their chart and see it, if you suspect them of it?
(J): Well, then you’re working with dynamite, unless you have real capacities to really know for a certainty. If you have that kind of capacity, fine, but anybody can look at a chart and put it together in any way that they want to, to be honest with you. Whatever you want to see, can be rationalized and seen. That’s just a fact. So I would say the best issue here is to err on the side of caution and not to make such an analysis and just honor your instinctual emotional reaction. If you’re feeling funny, walk on. Even if you have that suspicion in your mind, my question is to you would be, What are you doing with that person?
(A): I actually was going to ask you if we could not maybe do a person whose made a contract with evil, but if we could do a simple chart thing of just where, in an ordinary sense, where evil could influence your life?
(J): I used the example when we had Venus in Scorpio, as an example. Let’s say you have Lucifer in Virgo. Where do think the influence could occur there?
Would it not take over your natural capacity to doubt everything and to undermine your own legitimate purposes that serve your own intentions?
(A): And so, how can you field that, or what is the resolution?
(J): By recognizing it for what it is and counteracting it through the psychology of self-determination! It’s that simple. So, have you all got a little bit here about what evil may be, what it is not, how to recognize it, what to do about it, and maybe how to look about it astrologically? (audience laughter)….Let’s go get that Thunderbird. Thanks for coming.