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Lia
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« Reply #30 on: Jan 11, 2010, 03:49 PM »

i think i understand this. her mercury, which we established has been crucial in how she served as a teacher mentor in society (cap in the 9th), and thusly gained respect (ruler of 5th house pluto lucifer conjunction in libra- influence by evil via the need to be liked), squaring uranus which is also in the 5th indicates that at some point the attempt to "cover up" her uniqueness and please anyone backfired- as certain individuals felt who she was to be wrong. they thus persecuted her for who she was. this was very much a trauma for her. Is this correct?


In essence yes. Uranus in itself is such a sudden trauma which comes in the 5th house totally unexpected. Persecution also happened usually after the blow...the soul has been scapegoated whenever it attempted to be true to itself (capr. 9th) it was made WRONG ...then persecution happened of course by way of neptune in 7th and venus in 10th....the soul was exciled cast out (aq. sun in 9th) WHENEVER it made an attempt to recover itself ...sun conj. n.node shows the incredible GREAT efforts this soul has made prior to the current life. It made a leap in its evolution and the efforts need to continue in this life.

It has many gifts despite the illusions and the codependency pattern; evil of course trying to undermine it's weaknessess...tha't why it needs to be a group of one if that's what it takes...being able to see oneself and others objectively and apply it's individual will independent of anybody (ppp) chiron is conj. to ppp...the soul has been deeply wounded in the past and the reason was not seeing objectively and allowing others to influence her sense of truth. So coming back to natural law and her own natural self is the way...this also means a lot of learning recovering the truth about society as a whole, so that she can totally objectify her own soul story within the story of the earth (capr. 9th cusp. aq. n.node and sun)

Writing of course would be a very good way to do this, virgo 5th, 9th merc. if she can recover the whole story ( 9th house story teller) of her own individual progress through time and her liberation (uranus) from the mistakes, confusions etc. through the ages (capr) she could contribute something really worthwhile that can help liberate and individuate others too ppp in 11th aries and chiron there...which ignites the lucifer pp. so that the soul's original desire to be perceived as special for the service it delivers so for something that it truly earns (thats capr.!) could be fulfilled and lucifer turned to its adversary as a bearer of light......

Hope this makes sense?

Blessings,
Lia.
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Upasika
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« Reply #31 on: Jan 12, 2010, 10:59 PM »

Hi Ari,

I have got Lucifer into Solar Fire and I can share with you how I did this. However I'm not sure if it will work for all combinations of operating system and Solar Fire versions. I've got a PC with Vista SP1 as the operating system, and running Solar Fire v 7.0.10

It’s a bit of a journey so I’ll try to make the explanations as clear and detailed as possible. Also I’m not sure at what level your (or anyone else’s) computer skills and/or familiarity with Solar Fire is so I wont assume too much, so if it seems tediously overdone with detail please excuse me – but at least this way if someone who is not too familiar with Solar Fire also tries to use these explanations it might be helpful for them if I’ve spelt everything out explicitly.

Once done though it works like a treat. It does look long winded, but once you know how to do this, the whole operation only takes 3 minutes or so.

If you have any difficulties with the process just let me know and I'll try and help you or anyone else through it.

Before you or anyone else gets into this, I'd like to mention that the last step (step 6) involves using the Wheel Designer in Solar Fire, so I suggest if you aren't familiar with doing this or aren't reasonably confident with computers generally, you get someone local who is to help you do it, rather than attempting it alone with only these guideline instructions.

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1a) Click on the link below, or paste this link into your browser and then hit the Enter (or Return) key on the keypad to open the Astrodienst FTP site where downloads are made from...

ftp://ftp.astro.ch/pub/swisseph/ephemeris_files/ast1


This opens the directory on the site that has the Lucifer asteroid ephemeris file in it.

1b) Scan down the list of files until you see the file: se01930s.se1   

(It will probably have a date of 09/29/2006 12:00a.m. and a file size of 43,583
BTW ... 1930 is the asteroid number for Lucifer, just in case this is handy to know.
Also, if you have trouble downloading this file I can always email it to you directly)

2) Click on this file and a dialog box should open asking whether to open or save this file. You want to save it to a folder on your hard drive so click on Save, and select a folder to save it to. Make sure the "Save as Type" text field underneath the filename text field is showing "SE1 file", then click the Save button again.

3) Once you've got the file into a folder on your PC, then you need to move or copy it to the following folder where Solar Fire stores its ephemeris files:

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Esoteric Technologies\SwissEph


4) Now that the file is in the Solar Fire system you can setup Solar Fire to include this in your charts etc.

4a) Open Solar Fire and click on the "Chart Options" menu, then click on the "Files" menu option.

4b) When a submenu appears click on the "Asteroids file" submenu option. This opens the File Management dialog box showing all your asteroid files.

4c) Click on any existing file to highlight it, or create a new one and once created click on it to highlight it, then click on the "Edit" button which will open the file. This will open another dialog box that allows you to select which asteroids you want included in this file.

4d) In the dialog box in the top right hand corner make sure the "Swiss Ephemeris" option is selected by clicking on it. You will also notice that there are two large lists of "Selected Asteroids" and "Available Asteroids" further down.

4e) Now look in the column of Available Asteroids and you should see Lucifer 1930 in it. By just clicking on it, it will automatically transfer itself to the Selected Asteroids column.

4f) Click on the "Save" button. You'll now be back at the File Management dialog box, and the file you were just editing should still be highlighted, so now click on the "Select" button to make that the current asteroid file for use in Solar Fire. Doing this will also close that dialog box as well.

5) To get Lucifer to show up in chart the first thing you need to do is to add it to an "Extra Ring Points" file.
Depending on whether you want Lucifer to be part of a normal chart display so that it appears just the like the other planets and points in a chart wheel, or whether you want to see many other asteriods and points (such as the north and south nodes of all the planets) in the chart display, you would setup different "Extra Ring Points" files for these two different scenarios.

The reason for this is that the chart wheel can quickly become very cluttered if you include too many extra points in the wheel where the planets etc are normally displayed.

For now, I'll explain how to setup a file so that only Lucifer is showing as an extra point in your charts along with the normal planets. (The one drawback with this method of displaying extra points in the same ring as the normal planets etc, is that SolarFire doesn’t space the glyph out to make room for it when its very close to another point in the chart. However I don’t find that a major problem. If you do then you can create an extra ring outside the main chart ring in a wheel design and put the extra points in that. But that’s another matter)

5a) Click on the "Chart Options" menu, then click on the "Extra Ring Points" menu option. This opens the File Managemnent dialog box showing all your Extra Ring Points files.

5b) Click on the "Create" button to create a new file. Give the new file a name eg "Lucifer", and click OK. Now your new file should be highlighted in the list of Extra Ring Points files.

5c) Click on the "Edit" button to edit the new file. This will open a dialog box where you can select what extra points you want in your file.

5d) On the right hand side of the dialog box where it says "Point Type" click on "Asteroid".

5e) Underneath the list of Point Type options is a button labelled "Select File..." - click on this and then in the Asteroids dialog box that opens up click on the Asteroid file that you included Lucifer in, in step 4, then click on the "Select" button.

5f) Look in the list of "Available Points" until you find Lucifer, then click on it to highlight it. Then click on the "<-Add" button below the list of Available Points. This will add Lucifer to the "Selected Points" list.

5g) Make sure Lucifer in the "Selected Points" list is highlighted (click on it if it isn't), then you can type in the "Glyph" text box at the bottom left of the dialog box the symbol you want to describe Lucifer in the chart wheel. (I just typed "Luc").

5h) Click on the "Save" button and the dialog box will close. You'll now be back at the File Management dialog box for Extra Ring Points.

The new file you've just created and added Lucifer to should still be highlighted (click on it if it isn't), so now you just need to click on the "Select" button. This will now be the current extra ring points file for use in Solar Fire.

6) We're almost there! One step to go and Lucifer will automatically display in your charts.

Now you need to design a chart wheel style to include extra ring points in it. You can create a new wheel style from scratch, or simply modify one you currently use. If you haven't created wheel styles before I suggest you just modify one you use. For now I'll explain how to modify a wheel style that you currently use.
Some care is needed with this part as it will permanently alter your currently default wheel style, and if something isn't done right then it may be hard to get it back unless you know how. So I'll put screen shots in here to assist. However, as with all of this, I cannot control what happens when you modify your wheel style so I suggest if you aren't familiar with doing this or aren't reasonably confident with computers generally you get someone local who is, to help you do it.

6a) Double click on a “single” chart in the Calculated Charts list on the main screen to display it in the View Chart window. This will display using your currently default wheel style on your currently default Page for a uniwheel chart.

6b) You now want to edit this wheel style, so click on the "Wheel Style" button on the right hand side of the window near the Quit button. This will open the File Management dialog box for Wheel Designs. Your currently default wheel design should automatically be highlighted.

(We are going to modify this wheel design, so it may be a good idea to note down the file name  - i.e. the one that is highlighted in the File Management dialog box. Even better would be to make a copy of it, just in case you want to revert back to the original design of that file later. Briefly … to do this make sure you do write down the highlighted filename NOW. Then click on the ”Copy” button and write “backup” or something similar in between the existing filename and the “.WH1” extension. Now click on the “Save” button. You will then be back at the File Management dialog box. IMPORTANT: now click on the filename in the list that you originally wrote down, to highlight it.)

6c) Click on the "Edit" button and the Wheel Designer window will open. If it isn't full screen it may be useful to have it that way, in which case click the little black square (the middle button of the 3 buttons) at the very top right of the window.
The window should look similar to this...

 

This is showing Solar Fire’s default single chart wheel style (a uniwheel) that it ships with. Of course you may see a different looking wheel depending on which wheel style you have selected as your default single chart style in Preferences/Edit Settings.

6d) On the right hand side of the window where it says “General Properties” click on the black downwards pointing triangle to the right of the text box.


 
6e) When you do this a drop down menu will open. Click on “Chart 1 Planets”, which will select it.


 

You will then see all the properties that can be set for the chart’s planets.


 

6f) Now you need a pen and paper. Make a note of the settings for all these properties. The property is in the left column, and the setting for it is in the right column.
To see the setting for the “Tick Width” property simply click on the property i.e. click on the row that says “Tick Width” and the numerical setting for it will be displayed in the top text box, just under where it says “Chart 1 Planets”. If you are in doubt about what the setting for it is, note it down as a “2”, which is a reasonably good setting for a tick width.

6g)  Now on the right hand side of the window where it says “Chart 1 Planets” click on the black downwards pointing triangle to the right of the text box.


 
6h) When you do this a drop down menu will open. Underneath Chart 1 Planets in the menu click on “ – Chart 1 Extra Ring Points”, which will select it.


 
You will then see all the properties that can be set for the chart’s extra ring points


 

6i) You now need to set all these properties to the same values each of these properties had for Chart 1 Planets that you wrote down in step 6f.
To do this you set each property one at a time. First you click on the property, which will display it’s setting in the text box that is underneath where it says “ – Chart 1 Extra Ring Points” and above the list of properties


 

As I’ve said just above, the existing setting for the property that is currently highlighted (i.e that you have just clicked on) is displayed in the text box shown by the red arrow. All you need to do now is look at your notes and find the property that is the same as the one you have highlighted, and enter the setting for it (e.g. 3, 14.25, False etc)  in this text box, overwriting what is initially showing there, then press the “Enter” key on the keyboard. Now that property is set with it’s new value, and you can move on to the next property and set that, and so on.

6j) When you have finished doing this click on the File menu (top left hand corner), then click on the menu option “Save”, then the “OK” button in the message that says the file has just been saved. Then click on the File menu again, then the “Exit” menu option to close the Wheel Designer window.

6k) You will now be back at the File Management dialog box for Wheel Designs, where the wheel design you have just edited should still be highlighted. Click on the “Select” button to close this dialog box.
Now you should be back at the View Chart window, looking at the chart you displayed initially. Nothing will have changed with this chart.

6l) Now click on the “Redraw” button, and if all has gone well, you should see Lucifer displayed along with the planets in the chart. It will have the letters that you gave it as a glyph in step 5g. If you didn’t do that it will possibly be called “a1”.




That’s it. With these settings, from now on Lucifer should be displayed in all your single wheel charts that you display by double-clicking on them in the Calculated Charts list. It won’t display in biwheels etc unless you modify your default biwheel design to include extra ring points like we did for your default uniwheel design.

Hopefully this will be handy.
Upasika












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Rad
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« Reply #32 on: Jan 13, 2010, 11:20 AM »

Upasika

 Want to thank you for taking the time and effort that you have to post all that information. Thanks for taking the time that you have to do this.

 God Bless,

 Rad
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Upasika
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« Reply #33 on: Jan 13, 2010, 03:50 PM »

Upasika

 Want to thank you for taking the time and effort that you have to post all that information. Thanks for taking the time that you have to do this.

 God Bless,

 Rad

Thanks Rad, it's a pleasure. I became aware of this site last year sometime and in my spare time have been trying to absorb all the great posts and discussions to catch up on it all, but haven't quite managed to do that as everyone contributing is so prolific ! While I've been a student of EA for about 7 years or so now needless to say I have learnt a great deal simply by reading.

I have had some questions arise from time to time and when I've digested more of the wealth of understanding that is already on the site will get involved in some of the threads, which I'm looking forward to.

For quite a few years I used to be the importer and distributor for Solar Fire into New Zealand, and when I saw no-one had answered Ari's question re Solar Fire I thought it might be helpful to make the post. And it was a pleasure, I have learnt so much from all the time everyone else has been putting in, and really appreciate the high quality and quantity of understanding that you, Steve, Deva, and all the others have contributed, its simply a blessing this is available.

So thanks to everyone else here on the site for all your time and effort and valuable contributions, I'm very grateful.

Upasika
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ari moshe
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« Reply #34 on: Jan 13, 2010, 05:26 PM »

Upasika! Thank you for such a gift. I cant wait to follow your instructions. FYI everyone, it seems that this method, will allow for ANY asteroid to be included in solar fire.

Perhaps that information can be re-posted by an administrator in the misc forum...

Quote
Ari - there was another thread on asteroids that I found helpful.  I forgot about the correlation between Pallas and thought 'seeding'.  That makes sense with the myth, too.  I would gather that Pallas in an aspect with Lucifer NN that we're seeing the need for her to distinguish between good & evil, that evil could use this capability as well as good, that her intentions must be clear (which can be difficult given the nature of the issue).  Needing to discriminate between what is truly an ego-less message to help someone, or real beneficial messages and that which is merely her subconscious & unconscious mind at play with all the dangerous projections, and lack of healthy boundaries, etc.  Clearly she's bringing these issues from the past into this life.  If she is moving into the 2nd spiritual these issues are extremely important - it's this stage where evil really starts to put the pressure on in reaction to the increasing openess and awareness of Spirit.  The differences between Ego, Soul & Spirit will be 'highlighted' as she learns how to 'use' her ego in relation to Soul and allows her soul to be guided purely via Spirit.  She's got some work there however!  Hope that helps!

Thanks for reminding me about that thread. I'll read up on it:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,74.0.html

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so we got neptune in the 7th which relates to naivete and illusions around intimacy and relationships. this being ruled by pluto libra in the 5th, conj lucifer which itself is ruled by mercury in cap in the 9th- can we then conclude that she her patterns has been to "help" people on a "professional" level by being a mentor- offering guidance and counsel to others as a way to be respected- and thus to fulfill the desire nature to be liked? would it make sense to say that she would create an IMMENSE degree of popularity for herself as a result of this pattern?

I think there is some confusions here...the rulers are not right...

whoops, in those statements, i meant to refer to the ruler of the house cusp of the planets, not the planets them self.

Quote
a few things I wanted to add for consideration; pallas in 12th is conj to urania (which has a somewhat similar nature to uranus in way of LIBERATION from something but without the highly traumatising factor of uranus) so urania is 22 taurus 38, meaning pallas is balsamic conj. to it...what may this configuration suggest? Given the fact that it is 12th house (some illusions) and ruled by 10th pisces venus? (more illusions) Also given the fact that pallas correlates to mental virtue ..an aspect of the feminine that according to the myth ‘jumped out in full armour from zeus’ head’....
pallas as such is an aspect of the femine that is ALREADY influenced by a patriachal order....

About the feminine issues it is Lilith (asteroid) which signifies in any chart the original NATURE of the soul's feminine principle; this falls to 9 sag 31 so it is alas it is conj. to neptune!...so that’s where the problem actually started....
It is a new conj. in the chart so the soul has come through a tremendous culmination and attempting to start a new chapter in this regard....

In short this symbol, asteroid Lilith correlates to the soul's original feminine principle BEFORE the patriarchal distortion started on our world....it also signifies how the soul reacted to this transition at the first place! (simply because the underlying issue about the transition is putting the feminine aspect down as inferior, so it has been cast out of equality)....it doesn't matter which gender we are manifesting through in any life we all have feminine and masculine aspects within ...so how the soul reacted to the transition relative to its own feminine aspect tells the story about that particular soul during the transition time....and what we see here? This symbol is conj. to neptune.....so I leave it to you guys to work this out what may happened here lilith conj. neptune in 7th in sag.....what kind of beliefs, illusions and delusions may be a part of this pic?? That’ was the beginning....


Now after this there is the absolute distortion periods of the patriarchy on planet earth for many thousands of years....what happened is that with no exception all souls got wounded, distorted and confused in some ways....what this caused to our feminine principle is symbolised by a second lilith symbol called the ‘dark moon’ or ’dark moon lilith’  symbol....it is debated where this actually falls in the chart there are at least two different sets of ephemeries.....right now I wouldn't even want to pay much attention to that for what it represents is the PEAK of the distortion relative to our femine principle relative to patriarchy..(it actually falls to 5th, virgo..so the very service the soul felt it was it's destiny to fulfil) .....however the truth is that this distortion hasn’t only affected out feminine principle it affected our souls in all aspects...so actually the WHOLE chart is the reflection of that......for each one of us....what's important in this respect is the third symbol of Lilith, which is the Black Moon Lilith.....for that is the RESOLUTION symbol of our own femine principle....how we can recover from the distortion of and heal the feminine principle within us......in this chart this symbol falls in  26 libra 43, so right on the 6th house cusp!


Highlighting and putting what I already said about the 6th house libra lessons into a deeper and more crucial evolutionary context....for the soul to HEAL it's own feminine aspect the lesson of discrimination is of utmost importance; in this respect it has to do with learning TRUE equality and relativity being able to perceive other people's reality as it really is and  according to that (via a thorough analysis of who comes from what ACTUAL reality!) learning to improve the soul’s own ways of RELATING to others....one of the issue with libra 6th house is that certain relationships have been denied avoided...particularly those that DIDN’’T SERVE the whatever illusions that the soul had .....SO INSTEAD OF RELATING TO ALL IN AN EQUAL LEVEL those that were selected out (7th cusp is scorpio, selection according to one’s unconscious motivations and intentions by way of the natal pluto- impulse so repulsion from those who doesn’t serve the unconscious pluto security needs....and it is exactly THIS selection process how lucifer affected this soul) were the ones that appeared to serve the soul’s needs and all the illusions were projected onto them....yet in fact most of them actually undermined the soul....without the soul knowing it...7th neptune in sag....
We need to remember that the 7th house as well as the 3rd has a lot to do with APPEARENCE....

So in short there is a need to sort all this out and to heal from it all and that is the overall evolutionary task - within which there is the task to heal and recover it's true femine principle.....

Hope this adds to the understanding of this chart ?

Blessings,
Lia

Lia, that was SOOO enlightening, thanks for sharing that.

Do you say "it all started with the lilith neptune conjunction" bc of what lilith innately symoblizes (the original manifestion of the feminine archetype before it was distorted?)
And does the dark moon lilith qualify the nature of the distortion? How do we read the two together in terms of understand the soul's story?

The ability for her to be discerning to begin with seems contingent on PPP, which itself is conj Chiron- the need to be utterly detached, and in fact vulnerable in being different than others, in doing so.
This, activated through her north node in Aquarius in the 9th which is ruled by Uranus in libra in the 5th. To express her gifts no matter what. Also, She's got mars in aries in the 11th new phase conjunction to that Chiron- so yet another implication that she has recently come to a great resolution in breaking free from who she is projected to be by others- and she is meant to continue on that journey of being a group of one.

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Writing of course would be a very good way to do this, virgo 5th, 9th merc. if she can recover the whole story ( 9th house story teller) of her own individual progress through time and her liberation (uranus) from the mistakes, confusions etc. through the ages (capr) she could contribute something really worthwhile that can help liberate and individuate others too ppp in 11th aries and chiron there...which ignites the lucifer pp. so that the soul's original desire to be perceived as special for the service it delivers so for something that it truly earns (thats capr.!) could be fulfilled and lucifer turned to its adversary as a bearer of light......

Also, Uranus is ruler of the lunar north node and the NN of Uranus is in Gemini, conj moon in the 1st. So eventually, she'll be a poster child of spirit's work through writing from HER OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Is this a true assessment? What else can we say about the nn of uranus conj moon in Gemini? It feels like telling her own story is very key here. And we can say that her destiny takes her there? And travel/teaching mentoring- being as mercury, the ruler of Gemini is in Capricorn in the 9th.
We are writing all of this about her- and look where her Mercury is- 20 degrees Capricorn, a current hot spot for the evolution of consciousness! (transits of nn and everything else in cap)

Quote
There is another important thing we havent discussed yet: vesta conj. to venus in pisces...the kind of social role the soul played under total illusions....it has to do with another aspect of leo/5th house: the soul's CHILDREN...guess who wer the first who undermind, deluded and betrayed the soul at the first place?  her own children particularly her sons...who took over during the patriarcy and made her believe she was serving the 'right' purpose..the divine purpose.....vesta has to do with the sexual initiation of young males including one's own sons.....so that's how evil 'got in' at the first place....of course the soul loved them and believed them....it would be a long long story to reveal the whole evolutionary process of this soul but I think this bit wil shed light to the most important elements....how it started and what contributed to the totally illusionary reality and the incrdible traumas it lead to...uranus in 5th complete and absoute heartbreak via the people the soul loved most............

Woa, this is interesting. Is this why you see there was an original non discerning trust (original lilith conj neputne- resolution lilith on 6th house libra cusp) that was disillusioned by her own children she was serving (black moon in virgo in 5th) which effected her relationship for her natural role as a woman, and her natural wisdom (ruled by mercury in capricorn)?
The 6th house cusp being ruled by Venus which is in Pisces in the 10th, conj vesta- squaring Neptune in the 7th. Venus is also the ruler of Pluto Lucifer. So is this where you are able to put her son's in the picture?

Can we also then say that in the past, her father also sought to undermine her power? And that there was intense male jealousy? That the original influence from evil also came from her father? In this lifetime- even though her current father still thinks she shouldn't be such a heathen, he did have a realization not too long ago that "my daughter is a profit!"

« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2010, 07:49 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #35 on: Jan 13, 2010, 05:30 PM »

I also have a general question about the 5th house Leo Sun archetype. Are we able to determine just through the chart what relationship she and her current life father had in the past? It seems like we often incarnate playing different roles with each other. Would we have to look at his chart, synastry and composite in order to really know?
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Upasika
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« Reply #36 on: Jan 13, 2010, 06:26 PM »

Upasika! Thank you for such a gift. I cant wait to follow your instructions. FYI everyone, it seems that this method, will allow for ANY asteroid to be included in solar fire.

Hi Ari, thankyou, and yes you're right - any asteriod that Astrodienst has an ephemeris for can be downloaded into the Solar Fire system, and then would be available to display in charts and reports.

If you have any difficulty, or the instructions don't seem to be right or not work for you at any point, don't hesitate to let me know and I'm happy to try and help sort out any problems.
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Lia
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« Reply #37 on: Jan 14, 2010, 01:00 AM »

I also have a general question about the 5th house Leo Sun archetype. Are we able to determine just through the chart what relationship she and her current life father had in the past? It seems like we often incarnate playing different roles with each other. Would we have to look at his chart, synastry and composite in order to really know?

Ari,

Yes we're able to determine FROM HER OWN POINT OF VIEW meaning how she experienced it relative to her reality, but for the whole karmic/evolutionary picture we would need to see both charts....as for father the saturn/10th house/capr. archetypes are also important to study....
within the matriarchal culture there was no 'father' role as we know it today...children were raised on a communal basis and EVERYBODY SHARED the responsibility (capr.) for children.......of course the role is a patriarchal one....so is the nuclear family....


In short her current life father of course has a lot to do with the undermining and traumatising effects...pluti conj. lucifer in 5th ruled by venus pisces and aq. 10th cusp....one of the souls that affected the distortion through time......saturn conj. moon and venus in pisces....how this afected her self image moon, and the way she relates to herself  with confusion (venus) .....and the relationship karmicly of course connected to the whole story that is unfolding via her chart....she needs to liberate from effects of this relaltionship with the soul of her father, it represents  issues (amongst the many) that confused her sense of truth and her sense of resonsibility , i.e. 'what I really should be doing what not' etc. .......


Your points in the other post above are very good and right on!

Must go now ....won't have time for a while but will come back to answer your questions later .

Upisaka,

what a blessing to know that there are people like you!

Blessings,
Lia
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Upasika
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« Reply #38 on: Jan 14, 2010, 01:35 AM »

Upisaka,

what a blessing to know that there are people like you!

Blessings,
Lia

Thanks Lia, I feel so welcomed that its really heartwarming ... and am looking forward to getting more time to be able to be on here. 
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Lia
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« Reply #39 on: Jan 16, 2010, 10:23 AM »

Hi Upasika,  

you are more than welcome! Hope you'll have more time in the future to join in ...when you  have any question feel free to ask......someone will answer you I'm sure.....and I'd suggest to just ask the question as it arises in you.....don't put it aside and don't worry about if it is a 'stupid' question for there is NO stupid question when it comes from true curiosity/ intention to understand something......

So once again WELCOME to the EA community and thanks for your generous service about solar fire I'm sure there are many people who would have more questions about these 'technological mysteries' that are indeed above many of us - myself included! :-)  Roll Eyes


love and blessings,
Lia

« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2010, 10:25 AM by Lia » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #40 on: Jan 16, 2010, 01:31 PM »


 Hi Ari,

Lia, that was SOOO enlightening, thanks for sharing that.

Do you say "it all started with the lilith neptune conjunction" bc of what lilith innately symoblizes (the original manifestation of the feminine archetype before it was distorted?) EXACTLY.
Meaning within natural society the soul was manifesting that feminine principle undistorted. Then as the transition came it become confused and ever more mislead because of the UNSUSPECTING affect of neptune conj. to it.

We need to remember that neptune is also the aspect of consciousness via which we are ‘connected’ to that which we call divine. What we perceive as somehow divine is the easiest way to develop illusions about.

We don’t really discriminate at that point we have a tendency to take it in and see the divine potential.....then that potential can be easily projected into the whatever reality that seems resonating to that what we perceive as divine...as whole and complete and it will always correlate to something that we value highly.....in this case it is relating to others (7th house) and seeing them as a 'field' to express AND experience divine (neptune) truth (sag) ...the feedback from others the way they related to the soul carried this archetype because of the soul's original role ....so indeed there is always but always TRUTH in the neptune symbol it is just that the quality and perception of this transcendent truth is missing MOST the ability to see it in the light of the whatever specific 'here and now' ....meaning we all unconsciously keep those highest values and ideals  in a very simple way within our consciousness and because of that inward simplicity without thinking about it discriminate about it etc. we keep it actually in a way that is UNRELATED to actual reality.... .we are doing it so totally unknowingly......


Expressing it another way: it is the symbol that correlates to the soul's HIGHEST POTENTIAL....but the problem with potential is that it is only a transcendent (so above time and space reality) god-given POTENTIAL ...not something that has been consciously developed within the time and space reality induced evolutionary process (that's what pluto refers to where the soul actually is within it's own evolution, what has been developed how etc. of course that will be relative to it's evolutionary condition and every symbol in the chart including neptune will be relative to that condition.) Within the spiritual state the issue is exactly that the neptune symbol will have some level of conscious activation....in the prior evolutionary state how neptune really plays out on an individual level is what the person values most without knowing it is somehow connected to the concept of what we call 'divine'....in other words it will be in a very simple way a symbol that actually means for a soul any soul what idealistically constitutes the elusive meaning of 'HAPPINESS'.  This elusive ideal of what we feel constitutes 'complete happiness' for us may never be acted on - but once we understand neptune in this way as a hidden symbol for that notion in any life in any chart it is amazing what we can add to our EA understanding.....

Does this make sense?
If not fully, don't worry I am in the process of writing some articles about neptune pisces and the 12th in this respect for it is a highly misunderstood symbol because of course it correlates to confusion too :-) When I'll have time to finish them  I'll post it in the EA blogs  here on the site..... then maybe take it further to develop a book which hopefully would help to place this symbol within our understanding of EA, within the evolutionary paradigm and within the journey of the soul. This chart is highly representative of both lucifer and neptune and so I thought it was important to explain a bit deeper about neptune in order to understand this soul’s journey through time and how her evolutionary condition reflects on the fact how the neptune/pisces/12th house symbolism played an important part in the soul's journey.


In this case as the original lilith conj. neptune, it is very clear that the soul's way of perceiving/experiencing the divine was very closely connected to how it viewed others and the relationships it formed...

All this was attached to the original role it played before teh patriarchy: I would say the soul was just entering to the 1st spiritual so the neptune symbol became highly important and of course the actualisation of that comes virgo like in the first spiritual, be of service as one’s field of self actualisation.

 This is exactly why it was very easy to fool the soul having in mind the fact that the first spiritual has the tendency to be spiritually ‘gulible’....to buy into what SEEMS in harmony with their perception of what the divine is or could be....so that it becomes a total illusion especially when there is manipulation applied in order to exploit their idealism.....

This is what happened of course and therefore it was easy to keep those ideals with no regards of the distortion of the actual reality around the soul....these ideals haven't changed while the way of how others related to the soul has and how the soul was expected to relate others fundamentally changed during the transition to the patriarchy. So the soul was trying to fulfil the 'same role' still being convinced that it is some sort of a divinely ordained service and it is actually easy to distort that with ulterior agenda. The actual reality was denied relative to the soul’s subjective, egocentric environment within which it was hanging on to those it loved and needed positive feedback from.....

Yet what that all meant created an upside down reality. Had nothing to do with what the soul originally intended; pluto ...what someting means is sag/jup/9th house. So the distortion of the truths and how the soul perceived them begun via it's tendency to have illusions and see the divine in the face of those it had close relationship to.....That’s why the libra 6th; apply discrimination and true balance instead of the illusion of balance....apply objectivity by way of understanding the relativity of any reality and any one person’s reality (including one’s own!) i.e. improve the downside of libra: projections and going to extremes....

The ability for her to be discerning to begin with seems contingent on PPP, which itself is conj Chiron- the need to be utterly detached, and in fact vulnerable in being different than others, in doing so.



YES. And it is because the high level of taking in and accepting the reality of those who were closest to the soul on a subjective level in the 5th house bubble essentially....yet imagining that to be a social service for the whole......being a divinely ordered service...to the point of projecting the 'divine meaning' onto them and becoming totally co-dependent, enmeshed in them, placing the highest value on that and their feedback.........

If we unconsciously project the divine into something we don't want to go against it, do we? So in essence this is where the problem started with projected illusions and the  merging on the soul level with what the soul thought was a true manifestation of something divine.....sag. neptune ruled by jup in 8th. With the additon of having the feedback of being perceived as 'special' in return.

 This, activated through her north node in Aquarius in the 9th which is ruled by Uranus in libra in the 5th. 
EXACTLY. Meaning she needs to liberate and objectify herself even from the very symbol that in essence connected to the soul’s perception of what is divine not because it isn’t true in essence of course the divine can be perceived by way of others but because it was projected as illusions and delusions without discrimination....without knowing and understanding the actual realitiy those others were coming from.....
So what seemed to be the highest value via a trick kept the soul entrapped (scorpio/pluto/8th) in relationships that progressively undermined the soul's original intention via distorting it's human weakness (pluto  conj. lucifer in  5th)

To express her gifts no matter what. Also, She's got mars in aries in the 11th new phase conjunction to that Chiron- so yet another implication that she has recently come to a great resolution in breaking free from who she is projected to be by others- and she is meant to continue on that journey of being a group of one.


Yes. Either, if the projections sounds POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE! That's very important for the positively SOUNDING feedback wasone of the greatest manipulative tools the soul got entrapped by......(5th house: 'oh, they love me they appreciate me and THIS AND THAT is what they want me to do or to be -so it must be right) Twisted positive feedback applied with the appearance of love appreciation etc. applied with ulterior agendas and deliberate manipulation directed to the center of one's subjective reality can be actually the one of the MOST affective ways to distort a soul, any soul!

So yes absolutely this is what the soul needs to recognise; her TRUE being is totally INDEPENDENT from how others may perceive her,  as 'good' or 'bad' or anything in between....at the end it doesn't matter.....in essence other people's perception of her is UP TO THEM and NOT UP TO HER....she needs to be detached from BOTH the positive and negative feedback and just to be who she is according to her inner truth, her inner self.....YES the soul is in the PROCESS of breaking free, it has done great work in this direction rediscovering her true self and with a far higher evolutionary level that the soul reached via the last several thousands years actualise it.....this work needs to continue, yeah to be a group of one and be able to perceive others and herself objectively....then those who really share the underlying values the soul represents and expresses in a new way (aries ppp in 11th!) will eventually group around the soul but not for the old reasons...it will be those who also want to break free from the whatever binding patterns of the past and want to understand themselves objectively....

Once that developed somewhere further up on her evolutionary journey she can be an agent to help people to break free from the subjective egocentric view point of seeing reality and can help them to see how all that looks from an objective point of view....can help them to laugh at themselves and all those things that appeared so important and yet were the binding force to hold them back....

Also, Uranus is ruler of the lunar north node and the NN of Uranus is in Gemini, conj moon in the 1st. So eventually, she'll be a poster child of spirit's work through writing from HER OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Is this a true assessment? What else can we say about the nn of uranus conj moon in Gemini? It feels like telling her own story is very key here. And we can say that her destiny takes her there? And travel/teaching mentoring- being as mercury, the ruler of Gemini is in Capricorn in the 9th.
We are writing all of this about her- and look where her Mercury is- 20 degrees Capricorn, a current hot spot for the evolution of consciousness! (transits of nn and everything else in cap)


Amazing indeed! Astrology in our face isn't it? :-)
Well, no one can really know and therefore teach anything that they themselves haven't experienced in some essential ways........Without that teachings are either somebody else's knowledge taken in (which is of course limited to the person's understanding and perception)....or intellectual speculations or sometimes just projections based on imagination or a mixture of these....

This particular soul has a gift to REALLY teach all the issues that affected it's own evolution simply because it went through tremendous process - it went through the dark, it has been f-d. up, got stuck in total confusion etc. and is in the process of breaking free and objectifying it......and if it will TRULY break free from it all (so if it continues to the direction the evolutionary axis represents) then it can TRULY teach and help others to do the same....


Blessings,
Lia
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Lia
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« Reply #41 on: Jan 16, 2010, 04:46 PM »

cont.

Woa, this is interesting. Is this why you see there was an original non discerning trust (original lilith conj neputne- resolution lilith on 6th house libra cusp) that was disillusioned by her own children she was serving (black moon in virgo in 5th) which effected her relationship for her natural role as a woman, and her natural wisdom (ruled by mercury in capricorn)?

The soul PERCEIVED every person that had relationship with and taught them originally the proper use of sexuality (vesta)  AS HER CHILDREN at that time.......yes this was developed by way of initiating it’s own sons ...but from there the love and compassion was extended to a far wider level; neptune seeing the divine in them ....giving and receiving something that is divine in all of us....and it is absolutely true in essence.....At that time via the role the soul played i.e. a manifestation of the goddess’s love in a personal form and doing her best to give that service for the divine aim teaching in a very practical way (capr) what natural law means applied to the time and space reality and social interaction OF THAT TIME...so this is still natural society...but then the transition came.....

The 6th house cusp being ruled by Venus which is in Pisces in the 10th, conj vesta- squaring Neptune in the 7th. Venus is also the ruler of Pluto Lucifer. So is this where you are able to put her son's in the picture?


No it is the 5th house pluto conj. lucifer, then uranus is in the same house and sign....uranus rules the cusp of the 10th and her sun.....

Here we need to apply the ruler venus conj. vesta and all this being ruled by neptune in the 7th that is ruled by jup in 8th.....then apply the historical knowledge we have to THAT time of the transiton....

The orignal betrayal where the distortion started was via the soul's son as a woman at that time.....the way how patriarchy was SPREAD ALL OVER THE PLANET was via a highly respected woman’s son became her partner/husband (like the myth of zeus etc.) who represented the old spiritual system (which was of course always goddess and woman descendant based). This is what we need to understand here the descendant could never be accepted as ’divine’ by society unless it CAME FROM A WOMAN who was already considered as representing the divine or descending from the divine....there was absolutely NO WAY that society at large would accept any man as ruler or divine etc....ONLY IF A WOMAN SAID SO.....

And it had to have a 'divine' origin..so it had to be a son of a 'divine origin' woman....

So this was the covert way of taking over.....taking over the symbol of the ‘divine’ from the woman to the man to THAT man who came from her...so the woman passed onto him the divinity.

Understadning the issue of ‘inheritance’ in this way: pluto/scorpio/8th house, applying the historical facts into the chart symbols during the time of the transition we can clearly see the signs of the 'divine inheritance' issue here : the inheritance at the first place perceived by society (pisces venus rules pluto) the inheritance is elusive something transcendent.....so what lucifer conj. pluto in that timeframe correlates to of course is the change in the social order (uranus rules 10th cusp) and uranus being in the same sign and house as pluto/lucifer.
What the soul has given and shared was the social role the social power, and what has passed on to it’s sons in several life times (and had no idea in essence) was the ‘divine descent’ the right for its sons to rule...to take over and eventually overpower her and put aside ...to reduce her to be basically their slave in essence....while the soul still believed they loved her they actually progressively used and abused her....so reality started to go upside down with ever more confusion....neptune square venus; the soul lost it’s sence of identity, it’s inner relationship had been so confused it didn’t know who it was anymore....venus also squares sat/moon so this t-square affected the soul’s sense of self image and sense of responsibility...a total confusion via severe disillusionments which all pointed back to neptune: what on earth the divine wants from the soul and how to do that how to be of service for what is true?

Can you see what I mean?
All this starts with the original lilith conj. neptune, and vesta conj. venus as time frame.... as the transition to patriarchy started.

Can we also then say that in the past, her father also sought to undermine her power? And that there was intense male jealousy?


Yes of course! As above the patriarchal power started via transfering the so called divinity from the feminine to the masculine and with that transiting from equality to superiority/inferiority. The gender roles have been totally redefined and  distorted....
The father is of course one of the souls who at the time OF THE TRANSITON (when there was NO FATHER CONCEPT!) WAS THE SOUL'S SON....

SO ONE OF THOSE WHO UNDERMINED AND BETRAYED THE SOUL'S ORIGINAL INTENTION.


Jealousy comes from many sources one of which is the simple fact that no matter how many intellectualised teachings stating the opposite all but ALL male know it inwardly in an intuitive sense that the female didn't come form the male the opposite is the truth....so does every female know it no matter how much they are subdued ....to convince society to believe in something which is the absolute opposite to how natural law works isn't possible without violent oppression......which is of course the very opposite of what natural capr. stands for responsibility on a social scale....so men at large were forced to act in an irresponsible way via being oppressive and domineering ...meaning they were expected/forced to conform to the man-made new social standards....by the way this can never be done to an adult who is already conditioned and grown up within natural law....it's not possible....they may pretend but would not believe it....what CAN be done however is to separate male children from their natural environment and DISTORT them before they grow up. That's why patriarchy is all based on conditioning of course....only if a human being is brought up in a distorted environment AS A CHILD  will the distortion take it's inwards roots and by the time the persons grows up it will have no clue what the heck is the problem.

That's how patriarchy actually works....that's the key. And that is of course by isolating the women, locking them into small rooms, housesore sometimes even pallases (like in this case that too happened) denying them the right to interact with others with the larger society and taking ownership (taurus) of her children and distorting those children so that they will be damaged before they can understadn it.......and because they are damaged they will act out that damage and relate to all in a distorted way as adult...this is how the totally unnatural laws of the patriarchy being spread.

Interesting to note that NO CONSENSUS PERSON would ever go against natural law IF THEY WERE BROUGHT UP in a truly NATURAL SOCIETY....none of them, simply because they can't think outside of the parameters of their social norms and laws and will folow it....... That's why there was no violence before the patriarchy....what seems to be the problem today that was actually keeping society AT LARGE and its natural laws intact and unchanged in the past within the matriarchy.....

People don't have to be all enlightened to live according to natural law...they need to be given laws that are in accordance with the divine order and they will folow that IF THE WHOLE SOCIAL CONTEXT LIVES ACCORDINGLY....for then they will be conditioned to the right laws..........of course that needs to be maintained by people who do understand those laws and have the true ability to teach, guide and serve society accordingly out of unconditonal love and serving the divine via serving the people....  instead of self interest and ego gratification ......wanting the best for all souls leading them relative to their evolutionary capacity.....serving the divine via serving the people/society according to their ability of course.....this kind of leading/teacing for the benefit of the whole of course possible only if a soul is in te spiritual state.....so it depends on the ability of the individual soul and certainly not on 'birth right' and all the other bogus patriarchal notions..... so of course they are not teh consensus people who today lead most societies ....

Society is as good or bad as the underlying philosophical/cosmological laws are on which society's rules and norms are based on...it's a crystalisation of those underlying laws...it can be natural law or a distorted system like it is today....capr. comes out of sag....what are teh beliefs what constitues 'truth'....this depends on the teaching that underlies society... during the last satya yuga for example human society was lead and taught by people who represented divine wisdom....so society reflected that....

The evolutionary issue however is the individual evolution of each soul...and that can not hapen by just following good rules without learning to think for oneself....so as horrible as it is in this sense the contraction cycle of the cosmic year or great year represents the  period when the souls are left to themselves to figure out what is true and what is not....society and it's rules doesn't help......for it can distort, it can turn upside down...what it represented once and what it represent now of course is totally opposite.....so each soul continued their journey within patriarchy (going downward on the 'cosmic wheel' to the dark ages)  in a way that they had the least help and have been circumstantially forced to fall back on themselves and use/utilise their own soul potentials despite all odds .......for better or worst.

In this sense the overall soul potential is neptune and where the soul actually is that's pluto...
Thus, neptune can be a guiding star within one's consciousness or can be the most delusive illusion...
Usually it is a bit of both :-)

Hope this makes sense?

Blessings,
Lia

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Lucius
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« Reply #42 on: Jan 17, 2010, 09:26 AM »

Just want to say simply that this gal is at the evolutionary state where she needs to contemplate where she begins and ends - on an ego level.

She doesn't own any gifts - they are given by Spirit.  This is the dualistic issue in this state: not identifying with the gift and recognizing it is from spirit to help others versus the resistance to not identifying with it, wanting to say 'I have these gifts' rather than realizing we would not even exist without Spirit and that once we are 'empty' all is given, but we don't own it, so even her 'gift' is just that - a gift from spirit.  Well, I'm taking a simple issues & making it complicated as usual!  I say this assuming she is in the second spiritual state - I thought that was what was conjectured??

The victim consciousness thread started by Ellen are probably more issues - which also ties into an ego-driven, narcissitic view.  Was the gal you mentioned this gal, or someone else, Ari Moshe, in that thread?


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ari moshe
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« Reply #43 on: Jan 17, 2010, 12:05 PM »

Quote
This particular soul has a gift to REALLY teach all the issues that affected it's own evolution simply because it went through tremendous process - it went through the dark, it has been f-d. up, got stuck in total confusion etc. and is in the process of breaking free and objectifying it......and if it will TRULY break free from it all (so if it continues to the direction the evolutionary axis represents) then it can TRULY teach and help others to do the same....

Like Lucius reminded- she is second stage spiritual, or on the cusp of it. So she already is a teacher and does in fact help others do the same.

Lucius, not the same gal.

Lia, your description of Neptune is in fact one of the best one's I have ever read! It was not too complicated at all for my jupiter mercury neptune conjunction in sag...  Grin I look forward to your article. Also I believe you have written more about the liliths- is it possible to find that anywhere?
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Upasika
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« Reply #44 on: Jan 17, 2010, 05:48 PM »

Hi Upasika, 

you are more than welcome! Hope you'll have more time in the future to join in ...when you  have any question feel free to ask......someone will answer you I'm sure.....and I'd suggest to just ask the question as it arises in you.....don't put it aside and don't worry about if it is a 'stupid' question for there is NO stupid question when it comes from true curiosity/ intention to understand something......

So once again WELCOME to the EA community and thanks for your generous service about solar fire I'm sure there are many people who would have more questions about these 'technological mysteries' that are indeed above many of us - myself included! :-)  Roll Eyes


love and blessings,
Lia



Hi Lia,

Thanks for the invite to just jump in, and I'll certainly do that when the need arises, and also when I've got more time to give to the threads (hopefully not too far away). At the moment with what time I have I'm still enjoying to digest more of the material already on here, as its such a great learning resource, and as might be expected some of my questions automatically get answered in the process.

As for Solar Fire, I've just noticed Steve has a good handle on it too, and has got a couple of SF posts in the Misc section, so taking his lead I guess thats probably the best place to put any further SF questions and posts, and it'll also make it easier to get to them (and I'm happy to also lend a hand in whatever way I can with those).

Upasika
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