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Gonzalo
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 31, 2010, 07:28 PM »

Hi everyone ...

… I would like to clarify my previous post, because I am not sure if what I meant was understood … of course, I may be wrong anyway … what I have thought is that the Moon when involved with the nodal axis via rulership implies two “levels” (better than “layers”) of the Moon symbol:

1) Two levels of the Moon symbol when ruling SN in Cancer:

1.1) one level is the Moon as the current ego structure;

1.2) other level is the Moon as “facilitator” of the “mode of operation” symbolized by the SN in Cancer relative to Pluto, ie. as an element of “the trinity of the past”: Pluto-SN-SN ruler.


On this level, the Moon as facilitator would refer, by House, Sign and aspects, to past life dynamics or experiences which have served in the Soul’s attempts to actualize the Cancer archetype lessons. “Past life ego” is symbolized not by the Moon itself, but by the SN in Cancer, comprising the cancer Sign and the House where it is located, while the Moon by itself would, as facilitator of the SN, correlate to past life experiences and dynamics. Given that SN is in Cancer, the individual would be learning lessons leading to emotional self awareness and emotional self care, etc. The Moon would then correlate to how and to what degree these lessons have been learnt, what type of experiences have occurred in the past through which the individual has learnt or not these lessons … this symbol does not imply that the Soul has created in this life the same ego it had in the past … it does imply that the Soul in the current life has created an ego that is attuned to the experiences that in the past served to actualize the Cancer archetype intentions …

... Given that I am investigating the story of Paul Schreber, I will use it as an example of what I mean with these “two levels”: Paul Schreber had the SN in Cancer in the 7th House, relative to Pluto in the 3rd House Aries squaring the nodal axis. The SN ruler, the Moon, is in the 2nd House Pisces; NN ruler is in the 1st House conjunct the Capricorn NN. This signature implies that whenever his Soul has become emotionally dependent (Cancer) on others (7th House) to establish through communication the validity of his thoughts or ideas (3rd House) or to have his thoughts or ideas confirmed by others, he has received a feedback leading to emotional insecurity (SN Cancer in the 7th House), being left alone with his ideas, this producing emotional disillusionment and isolation, and creating a buildup of emotions that he has tried to suppress (Moon in the 2nd House Pisces).

This has occurred in the past (Moon ruling the SN), and this would be one level of the symbol, ie. the Moon as facilitator. Facilitator of what? Facilitator of the lessons of emotional self-reliance, balance, objectivity, hearing and independency indicated by the SN in 7th House Cancer. And, why is it connected to the past symbolized by the cancer SN? Because it is the same archetype (Cancer/Moon/4th House), and that is, I think, the meaning of rulerships, ie. the same archetype.

Then, on another level, the Moon correlates to Schreber’s ego, ie. the ego structure his Soul created in that instant life as Paul Schreber, an ego through which he tried to hold a limited concept of himself (Moon in the 2nd House), corresponding to how he was defined by his family (SN Cancer), as a means to control the pull of the subtler energies he had experienced in prior lifetimes through attunement to larger forces of metaphysical nature (Moon in Pisces ruling the SN, PPP in the 9th House); and also, the vehicle (Moon) through  which, by means of internalization of his focus of consciousness, experiencing withdrawal and isolation (in mental institutions), and finally hearing to himself (2nd House) he came to understand that he was intended to maintain a relationship to that forces, ie. God, regardless of social or family feedback (Pluto square the nodes applying to NN in the 1st House Capricorn), thus becoming his own authority as regards his experience.   

2) If the Moon I connected to the nodal axis via rulership of the NN in Cancer.

2.1) One level, as connected to the current life (and all of the past that comes into this life…), the Moon
is a symbol of the current ego;

2.2) As the ruler of the NN, it would then imply dynamics and experiences that will serve to actualize the evolutionary intentions of the NN relative to Pluto.


This means that the House and Sign position of the Moon, and the aspects it makes to other planets, and the Signs and Houses of these planets, correlate to dynamics and experiences that will induce the process of learning the lessons of the Cancer NN that will lead to evolution (Pluto). The difference of “levels” indicates that the ego does not equal the totality of experiences, nor even the possibility to assimilate all the experiences symbolized by these archetypes, by its sole structure. The ego will come to face these experiences and dynamics, and will be forced to evolve because of them.   

Lia, I would also think that the Sun correlates to the past or the future, on one “level” when ruling the Leo SN or NN, in a similar way …

Is the above correct? … all your feedback about what I shared is most welcome.

God Bless you,

Gonzalo.
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Lia
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 31, 2010, 09:12 PM »

Hi Gonzalo,

Quote
Lia, I would also think that the Sun correlates to the past or the future, on one “level” when ruling the Leo SN or NN, in a similar way …

I personally think that the sun correlates to the past in more ways than that...it always rules all leo planets for example and that gives a totally different 'flavour' to the same sign .....where leo falls in the chart by house and the planets wherein will have a close relationship to the ruling planet of course by house and sign.........as for me personally it seems that the sun is the overall 'result' of past life dynamics it is the major part of  the 'astral plan' prior to the current incarnation and it is defined by prior life actions/choices.....in other words it is not random as nothing is.....however within that it will be still the symbol for the life force for that current life and as such the integration and actualisation point or 'channel' for everything else in the chart......

....Wolf at one time made a connection to recent past life possible moon n.node placement...which he then said may not be so straightforward as that....to which I agrree...the sun to me is the active aspect of the self, which will be highly relevant to the evolving self image in the current life....as in all life...for the moon in itself is the subjective emotionally based self image but I think we are more than that....i.e. we may feel in some ways and yet we may or may not act upon it relative to what we chose....acting in life of course takes more than emotions just by themselves....our actions will have an impact on our self image so it will impact back on the moon....sun and moon together so emotions interacting with actions 'is' who we perceive we are are from the moment of birth till death....the egocentric structure I personally think is the result of this interacton so to me it feels that the s.node of the moon is pointing that....the sum of moon/sun together as past life egocentric structure....all in one.....which lead to the current life moon placement on an emotional level and the sun on an 'active' level.....for example even in childhood we do have a choice as limited as it may be we have some choice at least from the time we can move:-)

Anyhow these are my own thoughts relative to using the EA paradigm and place them under the test of correlation and observation on my own way...

But I don't mean to confuse anyone with my thoughts these are NOT within the original EA paradgm so again they are just my thoughts....:-) Like how I personally feel relative to myself relates to moon in the 6th...that is underlined with a doubt or fear oh what if I make a fool of myself? .....Yet what and how I do relates to the sun in the 1st..which has the strength to bear that emotional fear and says: oh well and so what? As long as it is respectful and responsible lets try it out.....1st house trial and error.... ...the reasons for the choices as it all comes about relates to pluto and everything else in the chart via a never ending interrelated dynamic...which at the end will always impact back on both the moon and the sun so on the very surface of my subjective consciousness.....there can be extremely big differences between feeling and doing.....may not be....but at the end how we 'structred' to me at least relates to that too: our two eyes, the he windows of the soul defined by sun and moon.....so again the feeling and acting  principle manifesting as the current life overall ego-structure.........to me that's the bottomline as the source has water and fire relative to astrology symbolised by pisces, so is the soul, as an  individual consciousness manifestation as scoprio has pluto and mars water and fire....and that in incarnation will come about the moon the sun......the image water moon and the active or 'fire' element of the spirit that allows us to live which means to act sun....... But again that's how I see it....:-)

As for the moon I wanted to clarify what are the original EA paradigms and if I misunderstood ....or mixed in my own thoughts....

I must go it's very late...

Blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2010, 09:33 PM by Lia » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 01, 2010, 10:36 AM »

Hi Ari,

"anywho- the question i'm asking is HOW is it that the Moon:
1. does indicate a subjective filter that a soul has established prior to this life- as defined by the sn."

The Moon does not correlate to a 'subjective filter'. It does correlate to the prior life ego structures that the Soul has created in order to actualize it's evolutionary intentions for any given life.


"2. how the moon serves as a current life strategy for the emotional integration of a soul's evolutionary process."

     In the chart, case, you have presented, Obama, one of the core evolutionary intentions, or strategy in the way I think you are using that word, is to recover the skipped steps from prior lifetimes. And the Soul is doing so as a 'strategy' to recover those skipped steps in order for it's evolution to proceed. The skipped steps of course are symbolized by his Moon in Gemini in the 4th, and it is squaring his S.Node in Aquarius, conjunct Chiron in Pisces, and his N.Node in Leo in the 7th. Those skipped steps are symbolized via the prior life memories that permeate the Soul. His whole chart, or most of it, the current life planets are all part of those past life memories, defined by prior life memories via his S.Node of the Moon and it's square to the current life Moon that , in turn, square in N.Node. When skipped steps are symbolized in the birth chart this is typical because of the intention to recover those skipped steps.

     So in his case the trail of those past life  memories that correlate to actual life experiences are everywhere. Just follow the trail yourself starting with the S.Node. And then see if you can put those trails together in terms of actual past life dynamics, and the experiences that those dynamics have created, that had lead to the 'skipped steps' in the current life. See if you can put together a comprehensive 'picture', Moon, of his prior life ego centric identities that have lead to the current life ego called Barak Obama, President of the United States.
   

     

 Rad
     

« Last Edit: Feb 01, 2010, 11:43 AM by Rad » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 01, 2010, 10:38 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

 Yes, it is very clear. And also very correct. Good job.

 Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 01, 2010, 03:39 PM »

Thanks Rad,

What is the evolutionary state of this soul?

I'd guess third stage consensus- though I'm skeptical of that because I feel such a high vibration underneath all that political crap- and I've had some powerful dreams about him. Though, that may just be my own projection.
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Rad
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 01, 2010, 04:36 PM »

Hi Ari,

 He is on the cusp of the 3rd stage Individuated , 1st Stage spiritual. In another life, for example, he actually tried to live in an ashram as an Indian disciple of a certain guru: sustained that for 'x' amount of time. And, if you don't know yet, he was also Abraham Lincoln. Do their synastry charts and it will blow you away. His consciousness is quite expanded which is why you have those powerful dreams about him. It's also why the world at large has responded to him as it has. He actually has the capacity to bring the entire world together, not just the U.S.A. And he would if it were not for the Corporate Interests that are attempting to destroy him at every turn.

 Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 01, 2010, 11:07 PM »

 Shocked

In the past he has walked an unconventional path, his soul has set on a path of individuation and uniqueness THROUGH knowing how to be an excellent socializer, be liked and admired by others, make others feel respected and appreciated etc. (sn in aquarius in the 1st, uranus in 7th house leo conj nn).

This also means that in order to individuate, and set itself free from "other people's expectations" and truly walk a path towards more freedom, this soul has had to experience great trauma in the form of rejection from others upon whom it relied on as a source of acceptance and approval. In other words, this has pushed the soul to learn how to be exactly who it is in the context of relationship- such that it can "hear" others, yet at the same time not pretend to be someone other than who it actually is. It also implies that this soul risked loosing it's attractiveness to other people, it's likability from others, by choosing to be radically different than consensus expectations.
 
To me, that is implied by the fact of Uranus on the nn in 7th, as ruler of the sn. We can see that this is a tension as there is a strong soul memory of great rejection.

With Pluto in Virgo in the 7th, Conj NN- clearly the evolutionary intention, which has been underway and in process for a long time now, has been to learn how to discern and figure out what other people need, how to give to others what they need, WHO TO LISTEN TO and who to not listen to WHO TO TRUST and who not to trust. We see that being liked, and being socially adept as a means to assist (leo sun in 6th as ruler of nn, uranus) different kinds of people as been very important for this soul, however there has been great evolutionary lessons in the past in regards to loosing itself to other people on account of not feeling capable within itself to make the right decisions without referring to other people (pluto in virgo in the 7th).

We see that all the issues around the sn have been activated through other people, through the constant imperative to face rejection, and create just the right relationships with others that reflect it's own evolutionary state.

There was a time in which the soul created a strong egocentric identity around it's capacity to locate itself in time/space reality. This means that security for this soul has been developed around being able to speak the language of whatever culture/reality it has found itself/ to know how to read the map of wherever it is, in order to be able to participate fully in life and "know what's up" and not be left out of anything. This has lead the soul to be up to date on the current social, political, cultural reality that it found itself in (Gem moon in 4th).

This however, squaring the nodes, last conjuncting the sn, implies that it has become OVERLY ADAPTABLE to other people's way of thinking (7th house square), to the point of confusing it's sense of how things work, and overworking it's mind in trying to figure things out logically. It has faced rejection from other people who also were the source of it's feelings of acceptance and being special (leo in 7th)- and it has been other people that have manipulated this soul- because it has been overly invested in finding the facts, and making decisions based on what can be logically, empirically sensible. So it's found it's own mind to be emotionally scattered in not trusting it's own logic, but the logic of others.

The key for resolving this, is through the sn in aquairus in the first. Which is to think for himself. This, with uranus in the 7th, implies great vulnerability. With the moon squaring the 7th house pluto and first house chiron, the tension is clearly really intense for this soul- It wishes to emotionally process (moon) it's own reality by accessing the facts from a very objective, empirical state of mind. If it did that, it would in fact enact profound evolution, leading this soul closer to the first stage spiritual.

At this transition from individuated to spiritual, this soul is seeking to realize and complete it's "vision" for change, and realize the need to surrender to spiritual truth and impact collective change through that surrender. In order to do this, the square to the nodes has to be resolved, then a full emphasis on leo in the 7th, with the ruler sun in the 6th- squaring neptune in the 9th, which squares Juptier in Aquarius in the 12th, which is Conj saturn is possible. This means that this soul does in fact have a great potential to be creating a reality that is truly helpful and beneficial for others, and to reach the masses (which it clearly has done before with jupiter saturn int he 12th, and neptune in 9th squaring the sun) however to develop more discernment around who to trust and who not to.

With neptune in the 9th squaring the sun- we see that is super important as the Sun is ruler of NN= disregarding all philosophies/ ideas about life/ political perspectives etc... that don't truly serve THE TRUTH. This then allows his to develop his self image, and make social change through his capacity to be seen, to shine- by sharing a vision that is truly spiritual and cuts to the chase of what the masses need (neptune in scorpio in the 9th. And that squaring jupiter which is conjunct Saturn in 12).

The ruler of Jupiter, as well as the ruler of Neptune (which both have to do with inspiration and delusion that has lead to both a capacity to bring in higher truth into this world and affect the masses- and also past lives in which it was convinced that it knew the truth, but was really tricking itself- and thus convincing other people of a possible lie-) both those planets are ruled by Pluto and Uranus, both conj the nn in the 7th house. When we look at this in relation to the Moon in Gemini squaring the nodes- we can see that the source of this soul's spiritual delusion and confusion about truth- and thus it's tendencies to misuse it's power (Saturn conjunct that Jupiter in Capricorn in the 12th) has been enacted by the influence of OTHER PEOPLE that this soul has failed to differentiate itself from.











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ari moshe
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 01, 2010, 11:46 PM »

All those transiting planets in his first house, moving over the sn, and gradually squaring the moon over the next few years will surely bring all this stuff to the surface.

Do you think he has a chance? I see how he has great potential to make change, but the degree to which he has to be radical, to break free from the wishes and expectations and manipulations of others who are using him, buttering him up (leo in the 7th) and distorting his sense of reality is immense. To be in spiritual truth, fully- if he is in fact at that evolutionary transition- means listening to a higher calling, and detaching from what that calling looks like. Relative to the choices he's made already and the transits that are just beginning- do you think it is likely that he will radically change his course in the next few years?

Anywho, the identity structure that has been developed as symbolized by the Moon- implies a strong open mindedness to consider any option, any possibility. This soul has come to know itself through being open minded, yet has also gotten lost through that. If I understand this correctly:

1. The sn of course indicates the underlying pattern of identity that the soul has created as a vehicle for it's evolution= becoming a poster child for change (aquar in 1st). And as a FACET of that identity, the soul has created an identity that is structured around it's ability to perceive various options (gem moon). It has thus developed a strong identity around having an open mind, and seeing many options (gemini moon)- as a part of this soul's past of creating new streams to freedom (sn aqurius 1st). And as we have discussed, that is also how he has been manipulated by others.

2. Moon as current life identity structure that serves as an emotional processing plant for the evolutionary journey of a soul (nodes, rulers, p, ppp)... means that obama has to focus on his emotional body and realize that it has been projecting (moon) a seemingly logical reality (gemini) that is influenced by other ppl (7th house). This soul needs to focus on the 1st house sn- being a group of one is neccesary and being rejected (uranus in 7th) by other- even loved ones perhaps. In this way, this soul is able to create a sense of security for itself as it realizes that it has a capacity on it's own to figure out the logical nature of things, by getting in touch with it's own intuitive sense of what is right and what is wrong (sag polarity).

Further questions:

A. the presence of the moon in Gemini in the 4th house- could this denote the possibility that obama can "figure out" a better way to live in accordance to matriarchal law? It seems the the tact and intelligence of Gemini has been his weakness- being overly mutable to other people, and sincerely open minded, yet missing the real facts in the process.

B. I often think of money, as a medium of exchange, as ruled by Gemini- perhaps he can reshape his own perception of currency, by understanding it's very nature more clearly?

Thank you so much for this discussion.


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Rad
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« Reply #23 on: Feb 02, 2010, 11:25 AM »

Hi Ari,

 I appreciate all that you wrote but they way you are approaching him , in trying to focus solely on his egocentric structure for this, and the other lives that apply to this one, is like as EA astrologer understanding and explaining who the person is, and why. I think, for the purpose of what this thread is, that is not what we want to do. What I would like you to try to do is to imagine as if you are Obama FROM WITHIN HIMSELF at an egocentric level that has been created by his Soul. For example with his Moon in Gemini in the 4th, squaring the S.Node in Aquarius in the 1st conjunct Chiron, which is ruled by his Neptune in Scorpio in the 9th, his S.Node ruled by Uranus in Leo on his N.Node in the 7th, the Gemini Moon also squaring this, this would correlate, from within himself, as 'seeing' , 'picturing' , creating an entire self image and identity that essentially says to himself: " I feel I have a special destiny to fulfill on behalf of the social system that I am part of that will directly help other people in their lives". This is just one example of what I am trying to help you with in order to come up with the correct way to understand the egocentric structure that all of us create in each life. So see if you can come up with a total picture of his egocentric structure in this way.

 Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #24 on: Feb 05, 2010, 05:55 PM »

Hi All,

I was wondering if someone could address the statement having to do with Moon/Cancer/4th house (if I understand correctly) that the goal is to identify with that which creates creation itself.  I think this is connected to the gravitational shift to the 3rd eye, for example, but was wondering if anyone could comment on this.  Thanks.

Ellen
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ari moshe
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« Reply #25 on: Feb 05, 2010, 07:56 PM »

Quote
What I would like you to try to do is to imagine as if you are Obama FROM WITHIN HIMSELF at an egocentric level that has been created by his Soul.

Thank you for helping me Rad. I really want to do this...

We got the sn in Aquarius in the 1st, conjunct Chiron in Pisces. NN ruler Uranus in Leo in the 7th. Ruler of chiron is Neptune in Scorpio in the 9th, squaring Jupiter in the 12th in Aquarius, conj Saturn in the 12th in Capricorn.
The nodes, as well as Chiron and Uranus are squared by the Moon in Gemini in the 4th, last forming a conjunction to the south node in Aquarius in the 1st.

From the human, identity, ego level at third stage individuated- this is a soul who knows itself to be different than others, and to in fact act upon that difference by using it's abilities to listen well and allow each individual to be who they are (uranus leo 7th) as a means to create new ways of discovering who he is- free from any conditioning- to break free from any social expectation (sn Aquarius in the 1st). he clearly has developed a self image of himself to be unique, intelligent, and perhaps feels himself to be RADICALLY DIFFERENT than other people.

However, there is clearly a tension within him in which he can feel deeply tormented by not feeling free enough to act upon the path that sees himself potentially capable of acting upon. This is indicated by chiron in pisces conj sn- this is holding back from action- and a deep feeling of not being bold enough to act upon a sense of spiritual purpose. this is connected to overcoming oppression based on philosophical, spiritual and/or racial differences that he has faced in the past- the intent has been to unite diversity (neptune ruler of chiron, in 9th square 12 h jupiter in aquarius). With the ruler of neptune also in the 7th- it again points to the immense awareness of who he is in relation to other people, and where he has faced deep rejection.

This human being, with the Moon in Gemini in the 4th house, squaring all of that nodal activity implies confusion around his self identity that is linked with a natural tension between creating relationship as a path to instigate change (squaring uranus in 7th as ruler of sn) and forming relationsips with other people that DO NOT support that at all- the moon having last formed a conjunction to the sn does in fact imply that this soul has become highly identified with being approved of in order to feel affirmed in his own decision (uranus in 7th as ruler of 1st house sn).

Being in gemini, he has naturally sought to acquire as much information as possible- to objectively know the facts about his reality, about who he is and who he isn't- what makes him who he is (moon in gemini in the 4th). his self image has been developed around the acquisition of more and more data and information that pertains to understanding who he is. The implied issue in this chart is that he has confused his self image by listening to others (moon primary square to 1st house sn- indicating that he has to evolve his self identity through the development of the sn).

So what I got so far is that, from within himself, obama pictures a reality of himself according to his need to figure out (gemini) who he is (moon, 4th house) and sees that the people in his life are very important allies or foes in that process. And this is all important as at a core level, he sees himself to be unique, with a special purpose that only he can instigate (sn in Aquarius in the 1st).

I feel like i'm still may be missing something...
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Rad
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« Reply #26 on: Feb 06, 2010, 10:46 AM »

Hi Ellen,

Hi All,

I was wondering if someone could address the statement having to do with Moon/Cancer/4th house (if I understand correctly) that the goal is to identify with that which creates creation itself.  I think this is connected to the gravitational shift to the 3rd eye, for example, but was wondering if anyone could comment on this.  Thanks.

Ellen

From the point of view of evolution for all Souls the intent is to understand the Cause of Creation itself. Relative to the Moon, the 4th House, Cancer it is part of the natural trinity, or triad, between Scorpio, 8th House, and Pluto, and Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House. This natural triad correlates of course to the Source of Creation or God/ess, Neptune, Pisces, the 12 House, and the Souls that are created by this Source, the 8th House, Scorpio, and Pluto, and the ego's that each Soul creates in each of it's lives in order to facilitate it's ongoing evolution BACK TO THE SOURCE ITSELF. So, in the end, your questions reflects this ultimate evolution wherein progressively the Soul DESIRES TO RETURN TO IT'S SOURCE. As such, in time, the Soul remembers that it's Source is God/ess and, as it does so, it realizes that it's identity, it's ultimate identity, ego, is that Source. Very few folks realize that the Soul itself contains within itself it's own 'self image' or ego. And how that inner self image or ego is then reflected through the subjective egocentric structures that it creates it each life for it's evolution to proceed. But as it does so there will be a progressive shift  within it's consciousness, the center or gravity, gravity of course is Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House which is the natural polarity of Cancer, Moon, and the 4th, wherein that center of gravity will shift from the subjective ego and a 'separate identity' from the Source, to the Soul itself wherein it will them remember it's own origins: God/ess. When this begins to happen then the inner experience of of the Souls individuality, it's own ego, is perceived and experienced  as but an extension of that Source or God. As this occurs then the inner perception of what is called the Third eye, the inner eye, is directly perceived and experienced. This, in fact, is actually hard wired into the brain: it is part of it's structure of consciousness in human form. As as the perception occur the Soul , by birthright, REMEMBERS how to merge with that inner eye. As Jesus said when 'one's eyes are single, one's whole body is full of light'. The dual eyes reflect the natural law of duality, cause and affect. When one eye become single, the inner eye that is fused with, penetrated, moved THROUGH then one's whole being, or body, is full of Light. And that is the light of all the Natural Laws that the Source has set in motion at the moment of Creation. And these inner perceptions, gained in the natural way, finally lead the Soul to be able to directly inwardly experience, to know, to perceive, the interface between the MANIFESTED AND THE UN-MANIFESTED.  And it is this interface that correlates to TIME AND TIMELESSNESS. In essence, the perception and direct experience OF CREATION ITSELF. This is the birth right of all Souls. And this is what the natural evolution of the Soul is about, in the end, as symbolized the natural trinity of Pisces, Neptune, the 12th House, the 8th House, Pluto, Scorpio, and Cancer, the 4th House, and the Moon.

Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #27 on: Feb 06, 2010, 11:47 AM »

Hi Ari,

 Great, just great that you want to take this on in the way that I have recommended. Because what it really means, as an EA astrologer, is learning how to be WITHIN THE PERSON THEM SELF, as if you are that person. Once this is learned then there can no better EA astrologer because when this happens the other person or client then, in the end, is ANSWERING THEM SELF through the agency of the EA astrologer. There can nothing more empowering for a client than that.

Quote
What I would like you to try to do is to imagine as if you are Obama FROM WITHIN HIMSELF at an egocentric level that has been created by his Soul.

Thank you for helping me Rad. I really want to do this...

We got the sn in Aquarius in the 1st, conjunct Chiron in Pisces. NN ruler Uranus in Leo in the 7th. Ruler of chiron is Neptune in Scorpio in the 9th, squaring Jupiter in the 12th in Aquarius, conj Saturn in the 12th in Capricorn.
The nodes, as well as Chiron and Uranus are squared by the Moon in Gemini in the 4th, last forming a conjunction to the south node in Aquarius in the 1st.

From the human, identity, ego level at third stage individuated- this is a soul who knows itself to be different than others, and to in fact act upon that difference by using it's abilities to listen well and allow each individual to be who they are (uranus leo 7th) as a means to create new ways of discovering who he is- free from any conditioning- to break free from any social expectation (sn Aquarius in the 1st). he clearly has developed a self image of himself to be unique, intelligent, and perhaps feels himself to be RADICALLY DIFFERENT than other people.

However, there is clearly a tension within him in which he can feel deeply tormented by not feeling free enough to act upon the path that sees himself potentially capable of acting upon. This is indicated by chiron in pisces conj sn- this is holding back from action- and a deep feeling of not being bold enough to act upon a sense of spiritual purpose. this is connected to overcoming oppression based on philosophical, spiritual and/or racial differences that he has faced in the past- the intent has been to unite diversity (neptune ruler of chiron, in 9th square 12 h jupiter in aquarius). With the ruler of neptune also in the 7th- it again points to the immense awareness of who he is in relation to other people, and where he has faced deep rejection.

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It's not that he , at an ego level, does not feel free enough to act upon the path that he seems himself potentially acting upon relative to his capabilities. His torment is much more about feeling restricted, Scorpio, Pluto, Mars in the 8th that inconjuncts his S.Node, by all the other ego forces, identities, realities, or others and their agendas that have the affect of blocking, restricting, undermining his own giant vision, Neptune in the 9th in Scorpio, ruler of his Chiron, of how to help the societies of his birth, the whole group of society, evolve and heal their existing problems and the dynamics that are the causes of those problems. So this is much more about, on his own egocentric level, of feeling the frustrations of these restrictions because, to him, the visions that he has that correlates to how to fix things, Pluto in Virgo, that are broken are so, so SIMPLE and OBVIOUS.

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This human being, with the Moon in Gemini in the 4th house, squaring all of that nodal activity implies confusion around his self identity that is linked with a natural tension between creating relationship as a path to instigate change (squaring uranus in 7th as ruler of sn) and forming relationsips with other people that DO NOT support that at all- the moon having last formed a conjunction to the sn does in fact imply that this soul has become highly identified with being approved of in order to feel affirmed in his own decision (uranus in 7th as ruler of 1st house sn).

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No. Within his own egocentric structure he 'sees' himself as a multifaceted individual that has a multitude of capacities, interests, and abilities that manifest in the various interests and points of focus in his life. The tension defined by the square to his Nodes correlates to how to live out and actualize all of those interests and capabilities. This tension does connect to the 'needs' of others and how those others, N.Node in the 7th with Uranus, whole groups of people and their needs, and Pluto has the affect of competing, S.Node in the 1st, with his own needs to actualize himself in the ways that he is naturally drawn to do. This tension connects to what I wrote about in addition. Within this his egocentric structure creates a crisis around his need to fulfill his sense of social purpose, S.Node in Aquarius in the 1st that correlates to his egocentric sense of having a special destiny to actualize and the freedom that this requires to do so, with the needs of others that include the needs of his family. So his ego then gets torn between these two needs: one to fulfill his social destiny and the external work that this correlates too, and his egocentric needs and requirements for his family and their needs. Within this, again, finding personal time to do for himself what he needs to do in order to fulfill all of his own, personal, interests that also correlate to actualizing the totality of his Souls intentions in each life.

     Within this of course are Soul 'memories' of other lifetimes in which he has 'lost' family members in various ways in the context of his career life and the karmic need to repeat families, wives, children, that he has had in those lives in order to heal those wounds from other lifetimes. To pick them up from where they were left off.


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Being in gemini, he has naturally sought to acquire as much information as possible- to objectively know the facts about his reality, about who he is and who he isn't- what makes him who he is (moon in gemini in the 4th). his self image has been developed around the acquisition of more and more data and information that pertains to understanding who he is. The implied issue in this chart is that he has confused his self image by listening to others (moon primary square to 1st house sn- indicating that he has to evolve his self identity through the development of the sn).

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No. In fact he is very, very certain from within his own egocentric structure of exactly who he is: Moon square the S.Node in the 1st. His ongoing wound for other lives, carried forth into this one, is due to the PROJECTIONS ..S.Node in Aquarius in the 1st with Chiron, the ruler of the S.Node in Leo with the N.Node , by others that have nothing to do with who is actually is, and he knows himself to be. Even though those projections have caused him deep personal hurt on an egocentric level because he knows that these projections are just that, projections that are caused by others agendas, Uranus with the N.Node in the 7th, the Pluto square back to his Moon, the reality is that those projections have only served TO STRENGTHEN HIM in the long run: S.Node in the 1st, ruler in LEO.

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So what I got so far is that, from within himself, obama pictures a reality of himself according to his need to figure out (gemini) who he is (moon, 4th house) and sees that the people in his life are very important allies or foes in that process. And this is all important as at a core level, he sees himself to be unique, with a special purpose that only he can instigate (sn in Aquarius in the 1st).

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Yes. This summary statement, so far, is indeed correct.

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I feel like i'm still may be missing something...

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There is much more Ari. Just keep following the trails, planetary connections to his Moon, the Nodes, their rulers .... there is indeed a tremendous amount of other dynamics that has gone into his egocentric structure and and the Soul reasons for it. You making a great effort here because MOST astrologers never arrive at this right way of understanding charts and the people, Souls, that those charts connect too. Just keep going.

Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #28 on: Feb 06, 2010, 03:53 PM »

Hi Ellen,

Hi All,

I was wondering if someone could address the statement having to do with Moon/Cancer/4th house (if I understand correctly) that the goal is to identify with that which creates creation itself.  I think this is connected to the gravitational shift to the 3rd eye, for example, but was wondering if anyone could comment on this.  Thanks.

Ellen

From the point of view of evolution for all Souls the intent is to understand the Cause of Creation itself. Relative to the Moon, the 4th House, Cancer it is part of the natural trinity, or triad, between Scorpio, 8th House, and Pluto, and Neptune, Pisces, and the 12th House. This natural triad correlates of course to the Source of Creation or God/ess, Neptune, Pisces, the 12 House, and the Souls that are created by this Source, the 8th House, Scorpio, and Pluto, and the ego's that each Soul creates in each of it's lives in order to facilitate it's ongoing evolution BACK TO THE SOURCE ITSELF. So, in the end, your questions reflects this ultimate evolution wherein progressively the Soul DESIRES TO RETURN TO IT'S SOURCE. As such, in time, the Soul remembers that it's Source is God/ess and, as it does so, it realizes that it's identity, it's ultimate identity, ego, is that Source. Very few folks realize that the Soul itself contains within itself it's own 'self image' or ego. And how that inner self image or ego is then reflected through the subjective egocentric structures that it creates it each life for it's evolution to proceed. But as it does so there will be a progressive shift  within it's consciousness, the center or gravity, gravity of course is Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House which is the natural polarity of Cancer, Moon, and the 4th, wherein that center of gravity will shift from the subjective ego and a 'separate identity' from the Source, to the Soul itself wherein it will them remember it's own origins: God/ess. When this begins to happen then the inner experience of of the Souls individuality, it's own ego, is perceived and experienced  as but an extension of that Source or God. As this occurs then the inner perception of what is called the Third eye, the inner eye, is directly perceived and experienced. This, in fact, is actually hard wired into the brain: it is part of it's structure of consciousness in human form. As as the perception occur the Soul , by birthright, REMEMBERS how to merge with that inner eye. As Jesus said when 'one's eyes are single, one's whole body is full of light'. The dual eyes reflect the natural law of duality, cause and affect. When one eye become single, the inner eye that is fused with, penetrated, moved THROUGH then one's whole being, or body, is full of Light. And that is the light of all the Natural Laws that the Source has set in motion at the moment of Creation. And these inner perceptions, gained in the natural way, finally lead the Soul to be able to directly inwardly experience, to know, to perceive, the interface between the MANIFESTED AND THE UN-MANIFESTED.  And it is this interface that correlates to TIME AND TIMELESSNESS. In essence, the perception and direct experience OF CREATION ITSELF. This is the birth right of all Souls. And this is what the natural evolution of the Soul is about, in the end, as symbolized the natural trinity of Pisces, Neptune, the 12th House, the 8th House, Pluto, Scorpio, and Cancer, the 4th House, and the Moon.

Rad
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Hi Rad,

Thanks so much for explaining this in such detail/depth.  Understanding that statement in the context of the triad of Neptune/12th/Pisces, Pluto/8th/Scorpio, Moon/4th/Cancer helps a ton, although I have to admit I'm still swimming (no pun intended) a bit in terms of my (experiential) understanding......  No more specific questions at this time, though.

Peace,
Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #29 on: Feb 06, 2010, 04:26 PM »

Hi Rad,
Just wanting to make sure I'm understanding.  I put my thinking in green.
Ellen




No. In fact he is very, very certain from within his own egocentric structure of exactly who he is: Moon square the S.Node in the 1st. His ongoing wound [color=green](Chiron)[/color]for other lives (South Node), carried forth into this one (Ruler of SN conjunct NN), is due to the PROJECTIONS (7th house?) ..S.Node in Aquarius in the 1st with Chiron, the ruler of the S.Node in Leo with the N.Node , by others (7th house - and Uranus/Aquarius? [because more than one other])that have nothing to do with who is actually is (Leo), and he knows himself to be (Moon square SN)Even though those projections have caused him deep personal hurt on an egocentric level because he knows that these projections are just that, projections that are caused by others agendas, Uranus with the N.Node in the 7th, the Pluto square back to his Moon, the reality is that those projections have only served TO STRENGTHEN HIM in the long run: S.Node in the 1st, ruler in LEO.

Rad
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