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Rad
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« Reply #15 on: Apr 20, 2010, 02:27 PM »

Hi Lucius,

 "Also, interested, as well in the meditation and evolutionary states.  My impression from Wolf, and in general, is that it is natural - not dependent on e.states or any other condition  i.e., a natural truth, natural law for humans in this realm......assuming that's right...?"

***********************************************************************

 Yes, this is right ......................

Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #16 on: Apr 20, 2010, 07:34 PM »

Hi Rad,

Quote
It can occur to any Soul who so desires to return back to it's origin: the Creator. It is 'hard wired' into the brain. It only takes desire to do so.

Doesn't that desire only manifest in the spiritual state of evolution? I still don't understand how it's possible that a soul in the consensus state could achieve this.
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Lucius
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« Reply #17 on: Apr 21, 2010, 08:39 AM »

  The consensus generally does not question the norms, morality, etc. of the culture they are born into and they generally have a more 'immediate' consciousness, ie, egotistic, not necessarily narcissitic or selfish, merely they are not aware life to life of their soul identity - so, if they existed in a society that taught this then I'd assume they'd do it and experience what is inherently true with regard to the meditation...?

The soul is a manifestation of Spirit and if the 1 2 meditation is a natural law it exists inherently regardless of evolutionary state.  I suppose the key word is 'desire'.  I would imagine if we had a culture wherein this meditation was taught & it was part of the 'consensus' you might have them experiencing this.  This wouldn't change their evolutionary state however.  There are, even now, indigenous cultures that use natural techniques that the entire tribe participates in & they all have sacred experiences.  I think we're just so adapted, accustomed to a consensus reality that is truly sick.  Although, the key may indeed be the consensus reality would teach this because if it weren't then these people would not seek it out - and if it's not part of their 'conditioning' and especially in our kind of society with the judeo-christian obsession with other people's experiences thousands of years ago, these people would think you're not just crazy but blasphemous and a danger to society....so, no, I don't think it would be consciously sought - but, if it were part of their conditioning they'd experience it and not question it...anyway, I'm thinking out loud here!

This touches on something my analytical brain trips on - the soul is consensus relative to these realities...but, the soul in it's 'entirety' seems whole.  You know, I"m not going to try to explain what I don't get because it doesn't make sense!  Let's just say there seems to be a paradox there....and no doubt my teensy human brain isn't up to the task!   Smiley
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Rad
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« Reply #18 on: Apr 21, 2010, 11:15 AM »

Lucius and Ari,

 The root issue here is two fold: desire, and evolutionary conditions. God is indeed, or the Creator, is indeed the origin of all things. Since it is the origin of the Soul that means the Soul's ultimat home is in it's Creator. Thus, there naturally exists a way back to that home which is no different that leaving where one currently lives, a house, street, city, state, and then coming back to that home via the relevant highways, streets, etc. So, in the same way, there exists an inner structure or map within consciousness that can bring the Soul back home to it's Origin. And that natural way is what the one and two, or any combination of two words, is about. The very nature of the natural map thus correlates with the apparent world of duality that was set in motion by the Creator while, at the same time, correlates to non-duality: timelessness. This map is thus reflected in the two physical eyes, duality, and, at the same time, the 'third eye' within that is perceived when the breath is shallowed and finally suspended. When this occurs the interfacing to time and timelessness occurs. The world of duality and non-duality is simultaneously perceived. This interfacing of the third eye with the two physical eyes is the basis of the natural law of the trinity. And it is through the third eye that the way Home is perceived and understood.

God is the origin of this natural law that EXISTS IN ALL FORMS OF CONSCIOUSNESS. It is a natural birthright because all things emanate from the Source, God. As such this natural way home exists for all. It only takes an active desire to go Home to ignite this natural inner map to go back to our Creator. And that is then the basis of evolution, and the natural evolutionary states for any given Soul/ consciousness. Desire itself is the determinant of the evolution of the consciousness within any Soul that corresponds, in the end, to the degree of SELF AWARENESS within any Soul. So even though the Soul 'is complete' from the moment that it is created by the Creator it takes a great amount of time, lifetimes, for the Soul to become self aware of that fact.

So, in potential, it is then possible for any Soul to access this natural inner map that takes the Soul back Home. Again, it is the Soul's birthright because the Soul has been created by the Creator. But it does require active and sustained desire. This natural fact, truth, was, indeed, the vary basis of the enlightenment of the great Buddha under the Bodhi tree. So even though this potential exists for all Souls that potential is only actively desired as a Soul evolves through the duality of time and space manifesting as many, many lifetimes. This is that which then correlates to the Soul progressively exhausting all the separating desires that keep that inner map back Home is the shadows of our consciousness. And it is those shadows that correlate for some many to simply an inner darkness when the two physical eyes are closed. Yet, as those separating desires are exhausted, the Soul finally will desire to go back Home. As it does so it then aligns itself with the different paths that lead to that Home. That then becomes the basis of all the various religions and philosophies that have been created. Yet the distillation of all of those comes down to one simple, natural, truth: the secret of the breath. And that secret requires no beliefs at all. It only requires a desire to know that secret. And when that desire to know that secret becomes realized then THE WAY BACK HOME IS REVEALED WITHIN THE INTERIOR OF ONE'S CONSCIOUSNESS. Where there was once darkness, there is now LIGHT. And as that Light becomes ever brighter THE WAY, THE INNER MAP, BACK HOME IS REVEALED. As Jesus taught: 'when one's eye is single, one's whole body is full of light'. The inherent 'completness' of the Soul is then realized.


God Bless, Rad
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Lucius
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« Reply #19 on: Apr 22, 2010, 07:38 AM »

Thanks Rad, very helpful!
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ari moshe
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« Reply #20 on: Apr 22, 2010, 07:56 PM »

Dear Rad,

Those words feel like a prayer to me. Thank you.

Ari
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ari moshe
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2010, 08:59 PM »

Dear Rad, I found a video online from swami Kriyananda discussing this meditaiton. He seemed to recommend that one focuses on the third eye itself.

Here's the video for those that are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFX6eJ_w3rQ


I asked him for clarification:

Quote
arimoshe:
Dear Swami Kriyananda, do you recommend that I concentrate on the sensation of breath at the third eye, or concentrate on the inner recitation of "hong sau"- which itself seems to resonate at the third eye? God Bless

AnandaWorldwide (swami Kriyananda):
With the eyes closed, turn your gaze upward to the point midway between the eyebrows within your forehead. Concentrate there. In time, try to feel the flow of the breath near the spiritual eye within your forehead.

I'm not trying to create complications here- Simply, I have not yet found the understanding within myself. It seems he is saying to focus on the sensation of the third eye. Would you mind speaking to the perceived difference between what you are teaching and what swami Kriyananda is teaching. I imagine the difference is most likely my lack of comprehension. Thank you.
Ari Moshe
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Rad
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2010, 09:20 AM »

Hi Ari,

 There is no difference at all. It is because you have not actually experienced the truth of this simple, natural,  method that is the underlying problem. As one concentrates of the hong-sau linked with the inhaling, exhaling breath progressively the third eye will become perceived. One almost anyone first tries this natural method all's they see withn themself is darkness, not the third eye itself. Most will feel a energy complex/vortex where the third eye inherently is without actually seeing or perceiving it. Thus, to concentrate upon the hong-sau relative the the breath will progressively allow this perception to occur. As one begine to preceive it, concentrate upon it, is in direct proportion to the breath naturally shallowing and, finally, suspending itself. At that point the Soul remembers, by birthright, how to merge with it. To merge with it means the move into it: consciousness expanding within as this merging occurs. From there the various levels of 'comic consciousness' occurs.

Rad
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Tamara
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2010, 02:18 PM »

Hello. I've done TM over the years, which does not for me have a two-word mantra. I think my breath becomes shallow and I do occasionally lose track of it doing TM. At this point it feels much harder with the hong/sau meditation (maybe because I haven't done it as much). I know I've got my own personal issues with breath - I think I've had some suffocation PL experiences. The breathing exercises were always the hardest for me in yoga classes - I'd feel my heart beating and that panicky feeling would come. I am endeavoring to just be patient and gentle with myself, give it time and not worry about achievement.  I guess I could say, 'I desire to heal all that stands between me and knowing God," and let it unfold. I guess I'm hoping for some validation if anything I'm saying resonates, or an adjustment if I'm off somewhere.

I know I've done enough blocking my own way home this lifetime, but I do get frustrated at different meditation philosophies that seem to argue theirs has the way and it's better than "that" way.  I know the TM group is very big on not "trying" to meditate, letting thoughts come, etc. At the same time, I deeply appreciate JWG's experiences and really just want to do what works, without skipping and jumping around in methods too much (unless for my sake it's best). Thanks for having this forum. I'm glad I can ask these questions!
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adina
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 09:01 AM »

Hi Tamara,

I learned TM back in the mid '70s and practiced it for a couple of years, tops. In 1998 I started the lessons from Self-Realization fellowship, which led to the hong sau method, etc., which is similar to the one, two meditation taught by Jeffrey. The one-two is totally independent of any belief system or cultural background, etc.

The most I ever got out of TM was being more relaxed. At the time I learned it, that was one of the biggest benefits touted - relaxation, stress reduction. Maybe that has changed now. I also found out MUCH later that the mantras they claim are SO personalized and absolutely SECRET are actually given out according to age and gender, and those even changed over the years. You can find a brief article and a table of the mantras here: http://minet.org/mantras.html

The hong sau comes down thru Eastern-based traditions, like those taught by Yogananda, and yet, as far as I'm concerned you don't have to have any background in the Eastern ways to benefit from the hong sau. And the intent and definition of meditation in these traditions is "concentration to know God," just as the 1-2 meditation taught by Jeffrey. I think your own assessment of your difficulty is probably correct and that with practice, you will get the hang of it. I think your understanding of what you're experiencing and feeling in relation TO your difficulties at this time is spot on, as is your way of dealing with it, i.e., your desire to heal all that stands between you and God and then just letting it unfold... letting it BE. I think that's a difficulty for many as they start meditating in these ways.... expections of what will happen. I remember years ago in one of my own readings with Jeffrey, in talking about the nature of expectations, he said, "That's one of the biggest hurdles in spiritual life - expectations."  So hang in there, Tamara. With sincere and consistent effort, you'll get there!

God Bless, Adina


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Tamara
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« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2010, 08:13 PM »

Thank you, Adina. I feel like I have good timing and support now to consistently work with this mantra here.

I appreciate your words and encouragement so much. Warm blessings!
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adina
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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2010, 09:49 PM »

You're welcome, Tamara, and it's SO nice to "see" you again!  Glad you found your way to our Message Board and hope you'll make yourself at home here!

God bless,
Adina
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stephen
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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2010, 09:50 AM »


Hi Rad,

  I have been doing this method for only a few days now and yet some questions come up for me during the practice, and I was hoping you could provide clarity...?

Quote from: Ari
...I focus on the sau hong (or 1/2) each word lasts as long as the breath (ie I focus on "sau" during the inhale- and "hong" during the exhale)

Q1: In working with this method, for me, 'hong' seems to naturally fit the inhale and 'sau' seems to naturally fit the exhale.
        Is either one applicable...just personal preference?   (Which leads to the next question...)

Quote from: Rad
The 'secret' in meditation, like the 1/2, is CONCENTRATION.
Thus, the 1/2 and/or any other meditation method that reduces all word possibilities to two words: i.e. hong and sau.

Q2:  As per the above quotes, can any two words be used?  I have been trying other words/sounds, and am finding the inhale='NA' and the exhale='MU' to resonate with me.  (JWG mentioned the original name of the Goddess was NAMU, so it seemed appropriate.)
  However, I desire to perform the breath method correctly rather than think I'm clever while doing it incorrectly, so please let me know...?

Quote from: Rad
The pineal gland becomes increasingly stimulated as the breath begins to shallow. As it does so the pineal begins to generate higher levels of melatonin within the brain. Melatonin is very much part of the physiology, chemistry, within the brain that correlates with transcendent states of consciousness linked with the inner perception of the third eye.

...it is not just the pineal that secrets various physiologic substances when the breath begins to shallow and then suspends itself. The hypothalamus, the pituitary, the entire limbic system deep in the brain, etc all become activated and, in turn and in combination, secret various physiologic substances that correlate to the perception of the 3rd eye.

Q3: Would it be helpful or harmful or just plain useless (or trying to take a shortcut without patience) to take Melatonin supplements as per the statement above?  I know some people who take such supplements as a sleep agent.

Quote from: Rad
Where there was once darkness, there is now LIGHT.

Q4: I am seeing either diffuse deep-purple light, scattered and scattering everywhere, like raindrops on a skylight...or, more often, a blue orb which is absolute purest blue  (when I am not thinking...which pulls/shrinks me quickly away).  But this is what I have usually seen in the past when I have meditated, so it could be hallucination/imagination/not God'dess.  Would the LIGHT have a certain color/texture/feel...?

Quote from: Adina
I remember years ago in one of my own readings with Jeffrey, in talking about the nature of expectations, he said, "That's one of the biggest hurdles in spiritual life - expectations."

Q5:  I don't feel like I really care how long this would take (either daily or years-wise)...I am just making the change as a 'life-style change' as they say and then will just proceed from there.  However, since this process will require an earlier alarm-clock setting, I want to honor a possible daily optimal time in the morning (for the before-work time).  Is thirty minutes a valid time period...or should I plan on 45min...1hour...?  Start at 15min and gradually move up...?

  This help is invaluable, Rad, thanks very much.

Blessings,
Stephen

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Rad
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2010, 09:23 AM »

Hi Stephen,


Hi Rad,

  I have been doing this method for only a few days now and yet some questions come up for me during the practice, and I was hoping you could provide clarity...?

Quote from: Ari
...I focus on the sau hong (or 1/2) each word lasts as long as the breath (ie I focus on "sau" during the inhale- and "hong" during the exhale)

Q1: In working with this method, for me, 'hong' seems to naturally fit the inhale and 'sau' seems to naturally fit the exhale.
        Is either one applicable...just personal preference?   (Which leads to the next question...)

*****************************************************************************

Either way if fine. These words translate into English as I am That ...... so it then either becomes That I am , or I am That ........where That correlates with God/ess.

***************************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
The 'secret' in meditation, like the 1/2, is CONCENTRATION.
Thus, the 1/2 and/or any other meditation method that reduces all word possibilities to two words: i.e. hong and sau.

Q2:  As per the above quotes, can any two words be used?  I have been trying other words/sounds, and am finding the inhale='NA' and the exhale='MU' to resonate with me.  (JWG mentioned the original name of the Goddess was NAMU, so it seemed appropriate.)
  However, I desire to perform the breath method correctly rather than think I'm clever while doing it incorrectly, so please let me know...?

*****************************************************************************

Any two words can be used but obviously it's best to use that have natural correlations with the inner God/ess Head. NA ......MU ... would be words of that nature so they would be fine.

***************************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
The pineal gland becomes increasingly stimulated as the breath begins to shallow. As it does so the pineal begins to generate higher levels of melatonin within the brain. Melatonin is very much part of the physiology, chemistry, within the brain that correlates with transcendent states of consciousness linked with the inner perception of the third eye.

...it is not just the pineal that secrets various physiologic substances when the breath begins to shallow and then suspends itself. The hypothalamus, the pituitary, the entire limbic system deep in the brain, etc all become activated and, in turn and in combination, secret various physiologic substances that correlate to the perception of the 3rd eye.

Q3: Would it be helpful or harmful or just plain useless (or trying to take a shortcut without patience) to take Melatonin supplements as per the statement above?  I know some people who take such supplements as a sleep agent.

*****************************************************************************

If you took that melatonin you would actually go to sleep ! So, no ...............

****************************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
Where there was once darkness, there is now LIGHT.

Q4: I am seeing either diffuse deep-purple light, scattered and scattering everywhere, like raindrops on a skylight...or, more often, a blue orb which is absolute purest blue  (when I am not thinking...which pulls/shrinks me quickly away).  But this is what I have usually seen in the past when I have meditated, so it could be hallucination/imagination/not God'dess.  Would the LIGHT have a certain color/texture/feel...?

**************************************************************************

Yes, the preliminary lights that most see before the appearance of the 3rd Eye begins is this mixture of purple/ gold/ blue/ white is a variety of patterns within. This will evolve into the initial perception of the 3rd eye. One of the colors that correlates with 3rd eye is the very blue that you are mentioning here. The other main color is gold that surrounds this blue in a sphere like fashion. Then, progressively, you will perceive the center of this which  manifests as a five pointed white star.

**************************************************************************

Quote from: Adina
I remember years ago in one of my own readings with Jeffrey, in talking about the nature of expectations, he said, "That's one of the biggest hurdles in spiritual life - expectations."

Q5:  I don't feel like I really care how long this would take (either daily or years-wise)...I am just making the change as a 'life-style change' as they say and then will just proceed from there.  However, since this process will require an earlier alarm-clock setting, I want to honor a possible daily optimal time in the morning (for the before-work time).  Is thirty minutes a valid time period...or should I plan on 45min...1hour...?  Start at 15min and gradually move up...?

**************************************************************************

All depends on you ability to concentrate on the two words. As a general 'rule' it's best to allow at least 45 minutes in the beginning so that the consciousness can settle within this concentration.

***************************************************************************

  This help is invaluable, Rad, thanks very much.

Blessings,
Stephen



God Bless,

Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2010, 10:04 PM »

Dear Rad,

I recently came to realize that for my entire life I have resisted allowing myself to simply be a beginner, to "not know".  Now I really accept that I am a beginner. I feel a deep gratitude and excitement in that acceptance.

I wish to ask a question about where/how I can receive the support of a teacher, or ashram type institution- to immerse myself in developing the skill and discipline for this practice. This is not something I know how to develop on my own: true, sustained discipline. I want that so badly.

I desire God, above all else- and yet I know that my separating desires are strong. I don't feel strong enough to do this on my own.

*********

Now I have some more fundamentals questions.

1. Is it recommended to sit with a straight back?

2. You recommended 45 minutes min to start with. Would you recommend as well any particular times of the day?

With Love and Gratitude,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 10:11 PM by ari moshe » Logged
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