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Author Topic: Checking my understanding of The 8 Primary Phase Aspects  (Read 2369 times)
ari moshe
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 08:51 PM »

Hi Steve,
Thanks for addressing this with me. I can't respond to that question yet, as I'm still internalizing a bunch of ideas about this topic.

In the Yod thread, I read that JWG refers to the full phase inconjunct as the scorpio inconjunct.

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The Scorpio inconjunct (210 degrees - you've already had the sense of inner power. you already know you can do it, but where the adjustment occurs, where the humility occurs, is that social circumstances will conspire in such a way as to block you until you make this linkage, until you learn to listen to that social sphere in such a way as how to integrate it on THEIR terms, not yours.

Earlier, you referred to it as the Libra phase. It brings up the question: Did JWG associate the phases with astrological archetypes as definitive associations- or as rough, imperfect descriptors?
Ari Moshe
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 01, 2010, 07:53 AM »

Hi Ari

Just to share my thought about the latest question you posted in this thread.

“It brings up the question: Did JWG associate the phases with astrological archetypes as definitive associations- or as rough, imperfect descriptors?”

This question has been answered before in the MB.

My thought is that it is not that the eight phases and aspects correspond to the zodiac archetypes they occur within. Indeed, they do not occur within the zodiac archetypes cycle, but rather on the contrary: zodiac occurs within the eight phases cycle. The reason is that the eight phases cycle is the abstract process within any cycle. At the same time, the zodiac as viewed in EA has been determined by observation and correlation, ie. the meaning of each archetype as defined in EA is valid in relation with the current epoch. As JWG taught, they will not be valid in 2,000 years, and new observations will need to be correlated with each of the twelve archetypes. Hopefully, Virgo and Capricorn and Leo will not be the same in the future. It is not the same with the eight phases: they will not change because they are not dependent on an epoch: they are universally valid because they are abstract. So, at one deep level the zodiac corresponds with the eight phases it occurs within, though, the meaning of the twelve archetypes in many cases has “deviated” from its deepest content and natural purpose, because of historical determinations. The abstract meaning is still there, though, it manifests differently. In the case of Capricorn, JWG taught that deep within this archetype lies the fundamental desire to liberate from any conditioning, to break free from the past. You can see implied there the meaning of the Last Quarter Square. Though, because of determinations of the epoch, ie. patriarchy, it has become full of other contents and meanings, as we are all too aware (you can read about this level of the Capricorn archetype  in “Mars in Capricorn” in Pluto II, or in “Capricorn and Dark Eros” in Measuring the Night vol. one). As an example, you can see a difference in how authority operated in natural cultures in the role of a shaman. The shaman knows the ways of his people, he/she understand deeply how his people is put together culturally and historically, ie, the cultural past. This is why he or she can tell the story and stories of his people. Though, he or she simply is not buying. He or she sees the universal and points the way in this direction. Even, he keeps using his human form (Capricorn) just for the sake of his social role. Very different than current social leadership.

I hope this is of help.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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ari moshe
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 01, 2010, 07:44 PM »

Thank you Gonzalo- that was helpful. Putting it as: "the archetypes are associated with the phases, not the other way around" opens some doors for me. Though I still need to sit with this more.

An aspect of my question still arises: Does JWG associate Libra or Scorpio with the full phase? I've read Steve associate Libra to the full phase, while I've read JWG associate Scorpio (ie when referring to the nature of the full phase inconjunct).

Ari Moshe
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Steve
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 01, 2010, 08:27 PM »

Hi Ari

The full phase inconjunct is at 210 degrees, which correlates to the start of Scorpio.  Phases are 45 degrees - full starts with Libra which is 180 degrees.  Full phase runs from 180 degrees to 225 degrees so the answer is the equivalent of all of Libra and the first 15 degrees of Scorpio are contained within full phase. 

Rad addressed the topic this morning in his answer to your question about Yods, saying the waxing inconjunct (150 degrees, in the Gibbous phase) has the flavor of Virgo, while the waning inconjunct (210 degrees, in Full phase) has the flavor of Scorpio.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 12, 2010, 07:30 PM »

Thank you Steve and Gonzalo for helping me out with this..

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The full phase inconjunct is at 210 degrees, which correlates to the start of Scorpio.  Phases are 45 degrees - full starts with Libra which is 180 degrees.  Full phase runs from 180 degrees to 225 degrees so the answer is the equivalent of all of Libra and the first 15 degrees of Scorpio are contained within full phase.   

I understand the math, however I am confused as you said earlier that we cannot correlate the phases according to degrees (which is what I- as well as you some years ago- naturally assumed should occur). However, as I understand this, it looks like that is what you just did.

According to what you expressed here, can we say that the new phase is Aries however the new phase semi sextile is associated with Taurus?
Thank you
Ari Moshe
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Steve
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 12, 2010, 11:02 PM »

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can we say that the new phase is Aries however the new phase semi sextile is associated with Taurus?

yes, but...

because the crescent phase is a Taurus-like phase, even though most of it correlates to the Gemini part of the zodiac.

here is how Jeffrey described what you are asking about:

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What we want to keep in mind here is that the new phase evolves through time. This is now how we start measuring aspects. If you have two planets in a semi-sextile relationship, 30 degrees, yet still in the new phase, this symbolism clearly suggests that the individual, prior to this life, has already had a couple of experiences - maybe a couple of lives, who knows - involving this new phase process. In other words it is not utterly new. Because it suggests that there has been something before, the semi-sextile tends to have the effect of checking the pure instinctual process of the new phase. Prior to the semi-sextile, there is the instinct for unchecked action, random-like, but through a process of action/reaction prior to this life, the individual has already begun to become somewhat aware instinctually, of course, but aware of what this new purpose is evolutionarily speaking and thus the knowledge implied allows the semi-sextile to have a checking action or narrowing of experience.

There is still the need to initiate action. There is still the action/reaction process. There is still much which is unformulated and yet the person has more of a sense of undefined direction, i.e. to narrow the randomness. The person may have unconscious memories of coming through the conjunction because in any life 80% of your thoughts, beliefs, values, interpretation and perception patterns, self-relatedness patterns are determined by subconscious memories. This is itself, based on that which has come before. The memory is in the Soul and is the sum-total of all that which has come before.

If I have had two planets in a new phase condition prior to this life and I now find them in a semi-sextile
relationship, this constitutes subconscious memories. This, of itself, narrows the experience field , not happily so, however because new phase wants to be instinctive. So the tension of the semi-sextile is a tension based on feeling checked or constrained. It is the tension, for example, between Aries/Taurus. That is a natural semi-sextile and I think most of us would agree that Aries of itself wants absolute freedom and the instinct in Taurus is to consolidate. This new phase condition creates an irritant. It is like the competing archetypes of water/fire. Water tends to have the effect of dampening the spirit of fire. So the semi-sextile is going to narrow, to focus, to stabilize and to begin the process of forethought prior to action. This is going to have a natural polarization in the full phase inconjunct. One of the meanings of the full phase inconjunct is to understand the meaning of the personal limitations as measured against the social environment. What you can and cannot be, what you can and cannot become, what you are and are not. This can correlate to a social function. You can see how this is mirrored in this new phase semi-sextile. It is the very first aspect to begin the checking of excessively willful egocentric expression - to begin the initial experience and, yes, humiliation, of limitation. When a baby is born, it knows no limitations, it demands all. The biological instinct in the parents is to provide all - it is utterly catered to. However, there does come a time in which that baby learns, semi-sextile, new phase.

So you see, there is a Taurus quality to the last 15 degrees of the new phase.  And yet that Taurus plays out within the Aries nature of the New Phase, not a straight Taurus archetype at all.  Whereas the Taurus urge to consolidate comes to fruition in the Crescent phase.  And that Crescent phase, correlated to the zodiac, contains all 30 degrees of Gemini.  Yet the whole thing is Taurus-like.  Then the New Phase, which correlates by degrees to Cancer in the zodiac, is described as Gemini-like - Crisis in Action - many choices/possibilities present themselves, and the person is at a loss to know which one to take, which one is the right one.  You cab see from this that the correlations to the zodiac are not exact by degree in the cycle of phases and aspects.  It is a different system, Ari.  You have to accept this and stop letting your brain try to make what seem like logical correlations when you are being told that they just are not there, not in the specific ways you want them to be. 

Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 13, 2010, 08:54 AM »

Hi Steve,

That was a really insightful quote from Rad.

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It is a different system, Ari.  You have to accept this and stop letting your brain try to make what seem like logical correlations when you are being told that they just are not there, not in the specific ways you want them to be. 

I don't want them to be anything, that's your projection. I'm trying to understand the actual ea paradigm here.

My question is this:
Within each phase, is there still some sort of progression?

IE- is it true to say that the first quarter phase is associated with Gemini, however the trine in the first quarter phase is associated with Cancer that is occuring within the Gemini phase?

And likewise, last quarter phase associated with Aquarius, however the sextile in the last quarter phase is associated with Pisces that is occurring within the Aquarius phase?

Thank you
Ari Moshe
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