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Author Topic: Questions about Second Stage Spiritual  (Read 9984 times)
Wendy
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« Reply #60 on: Apr 25, 2010, 07:27 PM »

Hi Wendy,

So moving to that stage is first of all a sincere desire and effort to know God and then to be of service to God; that’s the driving force behind the very end of 3rd stage individuated on thru all the stages of spiritual. What I’m saying is that if we didn’t have these descriptions of the stages, we wouldn’t be asking the question. 

Except they don’t KNOW that’s the problem until they’re faced with that downfall.

Many of us, I think, asked him years ago if there was someway around this stage, or a way to skip it, or mitigate it….. because of course, KNOWing this could happen IS disturbing…. His answer was that the more you can align with natural law – whether the rest of society is or not – the more you CAN mitigate it.

Blessings.


Thanks Adina,

That was very helpful.  I certainly wouldn't have asked the question if unaware of the the stages; and its great to know the 2nd stage spiritual at least has the ability to lessen the tendency to overemphasize the self while moving along the spiritual evolutionary stages.

I believe my question arose from a curiosity I had about some of the 2nd stage spiritual teachers I have met, and my wonder about what part they could play in managing that evolution, and also to understand more fully so compassion and acceptance would flow more readily through me in regards to some of those teachers who have been in my life.

Blessings and thanks again,

Wendy
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ari moshe
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« Reply #61 on: Apr 27, 2010, 03:07 PM »

Thank you Adina and Steve,
Yes Adina what you wrote earlier did make sense to me.

I've been contemplating that if these stages are natural- then perhaps I can find the nature of these stages within myself.

I'm most likely first stage spiritual. With no ill intent to myself, I can recognize that I am "full of myself". Do I think about myself most of the time? Do I walk around most of the day with the idea that I know what's up? The answer is yes. Those attributes may not be on the surface, but they are certainly present.

It seems that the transition from first stage to second stage spiritual- the soul doesn't GAIN a self inflated ego. Rather, the self inflated ego is simply still there- it's just now adjusted to a reality in which there is something to show for oneself. As a soul evolves, experiences the Truth and becomes more and more oriented to be of service- the stuff that has always been there become very pronounced because there is now greater responsibility and necessity for that soul to surrender it.

The mini analogy I was able to find for myself is- at times when I've maintained a regular meditation practice, and begin to see the tangible results of that practice, I think highly of myself in so many ways. I become inflated. I envision myself teaching it to others, talking about it, I feel like a king because i've been meditating for this long, for this many days etc...

When we take that archetype and apply it to a soul who is more evolved than myself, and I imagine myself as being that person. I naturally will have a whole lot of reason to think highly of myself, and share with the world what I think is the way to be- especially because it worked for me. You see I have an awareness of this tendency right now- in my own first stage spiritual way. If we look at ourselves honestly, I feel we may be able to recognize the natural pits we may fall into as we evolve. We glimpse it whenever we become identified with a "spiritual achievement."

So the second stage spiritual tendencies are seeming less and less strange. It's really starting to make sense to me.

That's what came to me. I hope someone will correct me of course if any of that isn't true.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #62 on: Apr 27, 2010, 03:10 PM »

Hi Steve,

Quote
I would say the definitive transition begins deep within the Soul.  It may take time and an event or series of external events before that transition breaks forth into manifested reality.  If the actual transition takes place within the Soul, how do we correlate that with a specific minute in physical reality?

We know that Spring starts on March 21st in some given year.  Can you tell me what the discernible difference is between March 20th and March 22nd?   

I think I get what your saying. What came to me when I read that was the nature of a Pluto transit. There is such a thing as a 0 degree orb. However integrating that experience fully through the emotional body takes a lot of time afterwards.

Spring as well- there is an exact moment in time called spring equinox, however beyond that moment- the changes occur slowly.
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Steve
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« Reply #63 on: Apr 28, 2010, 09:05 PM »

Hi Ari

Quote
Spring as well- there is an exact moment in time called spring equinox, however beyond that moment- the changes occur slowly.

My point was, you don't see any discernible difference in the moment before, the exact moment of, and the moment after the Spring equinox.  Its a mile marker along a cycle, that indicates a new seed has dropped.  It takes time passing before you really start to see the potential of the seeds dropped at the mile marker.
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Steve
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« Reply #64 on: Apr 28, 2010, 09:16 PM »

Some more thoughts on 2nd stage spiritual came to me earlier which I'd like to put out.

As Adina said, by the time that stage begins the person has had some real God experiences.  What if those had occurred in a previous life?   That Soul is reborn as a child. It understands things from birth that almost no one else seems to have a clue about.  Such people tend to be sensitive.  They are not understood.  They do not fit in.

Its not too hard to see that if these realizations naturally appeared from early childhood, some people with those abilities might get cocky, start letting feelings of "special" sneak in.  It wouldn't be too hard to see other people as dumb or clueless, subconsciously feeding that feeling of specialness, uniqueness.

I know for myself, I've had to struggle a lot to come to whatever realizations I have.  That struggle over time has created humility and compassion.  It did not come easy.  Even so I certainly had my share of cockiness when I was younger.

What if I had been born just knowing all that stuff, didn't have to struggle to reach the realizations - it all came easily?  Not as much incentive to maintain humility in that scenario.

In terms of thinking they are farther along than they actually are - I think that condition is kind of universal to most humans.  It may be more emphasized in some stages than others, but 2nd stage spiritual has no monopoly on self-importance.
Steve
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adina
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« Reply #65 on: Apr 28, 2010, 09:43 PM »

Ari,

I agree with what Steve has posted here and would add that being full of oneself, or as Steve called it a sense of self-importance, can happen in ANY stage except the 3rd stage spiritual. The difference in feeling full of oneself, having a sense of self-importance, or a big ego, at the VERY END of 1st stage spiritual is first of all still somewhat different from that in 2nd stage because the soul is just at the beginning of having experiences of cosmic consciousness, while in 2nd stage, the soul has had ever expanding experiences of cosmic consciousness. And it's these experiences (whether at the end of 1st stage spiritual or in the 2nd stage) that then lead to SPIRITUAL delusions of grandeur - or spiritual self-importance - that is very different from feeling self-important for the practices one has done and what they've learned from books, or even from within, if it's not a full-blown experience of expansion of consciousness... or in some circles what are called the levels of samadhi. In other words, it's actual
experiences of the godhead itself that leads to the ego problems... that's the underlying difference from what I think - what I understand - you were describing, Ari.
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Elen
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« Reply #66 on: Apr 29, 2010, 04:34 PM »

Ari,

I agree with what Steve has posted here and would add that being full of oneself, or as Steve called it a sense of self-importance, can happen in ANY stage except the 3rd stage spiritual. The difference in feeling full of oneself, having a sense of self-importance, or a big ego, at the VERY END of 1st stage spiritual is first of all still somewhat different from that in 2nd stage because the soul is just at the beginning of having experiences of cosmic consciousness, while in 2nd stage, the soul has had ever expanding experiences of cosmic consciousness. And it's these experiences (whether at the end of 1st stage spiritual or in the 2nd stage) that then lead to SPIRITUAL delusions of grandeur - or spiritual self-importance - that is very different from feeling self-important for the practices one has done and what they've learned from books, or even from within, if it's not a full-blown experience of expansion of consciousness... or in some circles what are called the levels of samadhi. In other words, it's actual
experiences of the godhead itself that leads to the ego problems... that's the underlying difference from what I think - what I understand - you were describing, Ari.

Hi Adina,

I have a question about this:  Isn't it the same MECHANISM, though?  The same mechanism of (small) ego believing IT is it, and not God?  Does this make sense?  In other words, in earlier stages (earlier than 2nd stage spiritual), the ego rearing it's head may not be due to ACTUAL experiences of the Divine, but it is still the ego rearing it's head...?  Wouldn't this habit then be the force at work in 2nd stage spiritual "ego inflation"?  In this way I can completely understand the necessity for this 2nd stage spiritual experience.  It is as though the experience of ego that we've had ALL ALONG is now being brought to a head.  There's no escaping it anymore.  It has to be transcended/let go of/ etc... 

Any thoughts?

Wishing you well,
Ellen
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stephen
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« Reply #67 on: Apr 30, 2010, 10:21 AM »


Hi All,

  Just read this thread and felt moved to post.

  First, thanks to everyone who provided these insights.

  Second, a thought: another part of the 'fall' in the spiritual stages might be what my wife calls something like 'the Puritan Sack-Cloth Ethic' wherein the Puritans did not want to fall prey to pride about their appearance and wearing fancy clothes, and yet they then succumbed (in some cases) to pride at how they were better than others since they were wearing only sackcloth (opposite reality intended!). 
  I might totally have the history wrong, but I'm wondering if the concept is perhaps valid...?  And where, if anywhere, this concept might fit within the stages?

  Also...as a BTW..I am now seeing how everything I (and everyone else Smiley ) posts here just speaks VOLUMES about me (and them).  Oh no, I am not saying I can read those volumes (not even mine), just that our every word and gesture and action seems to display our own perceived reality.

  This paradigm just keeps unfolding...!

God'dess Bless,
Stephen
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ari moshe
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« Reply #68 on: Apr 30, 2010, 01:33 PM »

Quote
  Also...as a BTW..I am now seeing how everything I (and everyone else  ) posts here just speaks VOLUMES about me (and them).  Oh no, I am not saying I can read those volumes (not even mine), just that our every word and gesture and action seems to display our own perceived reality.

And our emoticons  Cool
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stephen
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« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2010, 10:39 AM »

Quote
  Also...as a BTW..I am now seeing how everything I (and everyone else  ) posts here just speaks VOLUMES about me (and them).  Oh no, I am not saying I can read those volumes (not even mine), just that our every word and gesture and action seems to display our own perceived reality.

And our emoticons  Cool

Right...!  LOL

 Cheesy
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Linda
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« Reply #70 on: Sep 21, 2011, 04:20 PM »

Hi everyone,

Have been listening to Gangaji a lot lately.  Would anyone care to estimate her evolutionary condition?

Thanks,
Linda
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Wendy
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« Reply #71 on: Sep 21, 2011, 07:26 PM »

I like this idea Linda and I would like to participate.
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Linda
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« Reply #72 on: Sep 21, 2011, 09:59 PM »

Hi Wendy,

Glad you are interested in participating in this question.  I've been watching many of Gangaji's videos - and the messages within each and every one of them really speak the unspeakable.  It's been very difficult choosing a video that encapsulates it all....but this one incorporates a wider picture, purpose, what our lives stand for......and is in alignment with what EA teaches about Natural Law.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlrfoneoHRs

She does not point to herself as the way.  I'm reluctant to place her in any of the sub-stages of the 2nd stage Spiritual.  I've heard that she lives a pristine life.  Perhaps early 3rd stage Spiritual?

Interested to hear what you and others think?

Found this quote by Rose Marcus:  It must be remembered that devotee and guru alike are equally divine creations and equal contributors/creators to the divine/master plan.  All that is created is necessary to evolution. Our understanding of perfection has been largely manufactured by the conditionings of consciousness over time. In fact, God is an evolving force, and as such is also imperfect. The imperfect guru is a reflection of God seeking to expand its own divine consciousness.
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Dhyana
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« Reply #73 on: Sep 21, 2011, 10:18 PM »

Hello All,

Gangaji is this life's Teacher. I have been with Gangaji in the most Intimate ways for many years. I was the video host for her and contact person in my area. I held lengthy retreats here with her videos etc. And have been to see her many times in various places on the east coast here.

I met her in 1995/1996 (and began deep one on one sharing around 1998) during the darkest night of this Soul's life. If it were not for Gangaji, I honestly feel I would not have made it.

I have been with Gangaji in physical contact many times, even on the telephone during the deepest scares I have ever experienced,  we have written letters back and forth,  And in contact in such subtle of subtlest ways ...that I cannot even speak here (for there are no words for it).

... Being with her has been the greatest gift in this lifetime...
...for she has pointed me to my Self by her pure reflection of That.

Gangaji has only ever invited me to TRUST MYSELF, that is her teaching. It has never been about her.

...She invited me to Trust Myself, through hell and back, and I mean that literally!

I cannot even find the words to articulate my gratitude for her in this lifetime.

I have been with her through all different stages of her putting herself out there, til present, (and through her husbands affair which caused some uproar). And I can attest, first hand, and directly, knowing her so intimately as I do, that her life is completely congruent with what she speaks. She has been onepointed, transparent and true, through it all. She has the utmost of most integrity! -- of anyone I have ever met in this lifetime.

So much gratitude wells up at just the thought of her and what she has meant for this lifetime.

In That Love That We Are,
Dhyana


« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2011, 11:14 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #74 on: Sep 21, 2011, 11:09 PM »

Dhyana,

Thank you so much for sharing that!  How beautiful for you to have a friend like her.  Yes, I find all of her videos absolutely stunning.

So you would say she's in the 3rd stage Spiritual?

I've been looking at her chart.  With Saturn conjunct the MC (noon chart only), she is attempting to recover skipped steps (Saturn t-square Nodes).  The Resolution Node, SN Pisces 7th, square Saturn in Gemini (conjunct Uranus, conjunct MC) describes recovering those skipped steps:  communicating that spiritual message, which she does very effectively.  Natal Pluto Leo 12th conjunct Chiron.  It's all there in the chart.

I really like her words:  "Trust yourself".

Inspired,
Linda



PS:  Just caught your last message.  I've experienced those frozen emotions too! (having so many Capricorn planets and planetary nodes).  Am working on self-mastery, and transforming harsh qualities, sometimes painfully, but with surrender (T-Pluto through Capricorn), and in Gangaji's words: "Tell the truth." 



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