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Author Topic: Question about primary lives  (Read 4637 times)
Elen
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« Reply #30 on: Oct 30, 2010, 01:54 PM »

Steve wrote: What came to me is, a primary lifetime is an evolutionary gateway lifetime.  That is what the aspect between Pluto and Mars represents.  That aspect is either culminating (balsamic qualities) like a Crescent phase square, or beginning (new phase qualities) like a First Quarter square.    They are gateways into the next phase of that Soul's development.  Because they relate to new orientations, in the case of stressful aspects at least, there is going to be inner tension and resistance to the intended changes.  That resistance will be within the Soul itself, not just the personality.  Thus it may take extra effort to move through the transition.

Maybe this is a leap, but I read something in Barbara Brennan's book, Hands of Light that made me think of primary lives and the possible potential that lay in the work that is done in those lives.  Here are the 2 quotes:

"Einstein's space-time continuum state the apparent linearity of events depends on the observer.  We are all too ready to accept past lives as literal physical lives that have happened in the past in a physical setting like this one. [italics in original].  Our past lives may be happening right now in a different space-time continuum.  Many of us have experienced "past lives" and feel their effects as if they were a short time ago.  But we rarely speak of how our future lives are affecting the one we are experiencing right here andnow.  As we live our life NOW, it becomes more likely that we are rewriting our personal history, both past and future. [Italics in original]. (p. 24, 1987)

"...but essentially the physicists are saying there is no such thing as a "thing."  What we used to call "things" are really "events" or paths that might become events. (p. 25, 1987).

When I read these 2 quotes it occurred to me that perhaps primary lives, as gateways, are lives in which we can truly impact, positively or not, the quality/direction/etc. of our pasts and futures, and that also, that these are the lives in which the shape of the "event" we are becoming takes shape.  The secondary lives would then be lives in which we are living out the ramifications of the preceeding primary life.

I'm curious if others know anything about this or have thoughts on it.  I am currently in a primary life myself and I remember early on in my self-healing work having the very profound feeling that the healing that I was doing, assuming I could really do it, would allow those in the past (I was thinking in terms of literal biological ancestors, especially those already deceased) would have a chance to heal...

Peace,
Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 08, 2010, 05:55 PM »

Hi All,

I have another question, this one more directly connected to the EA paradigm.  I was thinking about orbs and wondering how that related to aspects denoting primary lives.  Essentially, this brought up 2 questions for me.

1) Are both waxing AND waning aspects considered?

2) What are the allowed orbs?

Beneath these 2 questions is this: it struck me that if we are using orbs of any significance, and if we are using both waxing and waning aspects, then we would have to be looking at MORE than one lifetime devoted to any one primary life.  But this is not corrrect as far as I know.  Only one lifetime is given to a primary life.  Can anyone answer the above 2 questions AND explain this paradox?

Peace,
Ellen
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Rad
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 09, 2010, 08:40 AM »

Hi Ellen,

Hi All,

I have another question, this one more directly connected to the EA paradigm.  I was thinking about orbs and wondering how that related to aspects denoting primary lives.  Essentially, this brought up 2 questions for me.

1) Are both waxing AND waning aspects considered?

**********************************************************************

Yes

******************************************************************

2) What are the allowed orbs?

*********************************************************************

The normal orbs for specific aspects, i.e. ten degrees for a squares, oppositions, conjunctions, etc, etc, etc ...........

*********************************************************************

Beneath these 2 questions is this: it struck me that if we are using orbs of any significance, and if we are using both waxing and waning aspects, then we would have to be looking at MORE than one lifetime devoted to any one primary life.  But this is not corrrect as far as I know.  Only one lifetime is given to a primary life.  Can anyone answer the above 2 questions AND explain this paradox?

*************************************************************************

There is no paradox at all. In fact there is no such thing as having just 'one' primary life ... it is a series of lives as the evolution within as aspect, i.e. a waxing or waning square, demonstrates.

*************************************************************************



God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 10, 2010, 04:44 PM »

Hi Ellen,

Hi All,

I have another question, this one more directly connected to the EA paradigm.  I was thinking about orbs and wondering how that related to aspects denoting primary lives.  Essentially, this brought up 2 questions for me.

1) Are both waxing AND waning aspects considered?

**********************************************************************

Yes

******************************************************************

2) What are the allowed orbs?

*********************************************************************

The normal orbs for specific aspects, i.e. ten degrees for a squares, oppositions, conjunctions, etc, etc, etc ...........

*********************************************************************

Beneath these 2 questions is this: it struck me that if we are using orbs of any significance, and if we are using both waxing and waning aspects, then we would have to be looking at MORE than one lifetime devoted to any one primary life.  But this is not corrrect as far as I know.  Only one lifetime is given to a primary life.  Can anyone answer the above 2 questions AND explain this paradox?

*************************************************************************

There is no paradox at all. In fact there is no such thing as having just 'one' primary life ... it is a series of lives as the evolution within as aspect, i.e. a waxing or waning square, demonstrates.

*************************************************************************



God Bless, Rad

Thanks for clearing that up, Rad.  I somehow had it in my head that only one primary life was lived per associated aspect.  What you wrote makes more sense, given the other 2 questions/answers.

Peace,
Ellen
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Heidi
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« Reply #34 on: Jun 25, 2011, 01:40 PM »

Hello Everyone,

I have just read p.210 on the Pluto II book and am a little confused..

In the second paragraph on that page JWG says, "Thus, since there are eight primary phases, the phasal relationship between Mars and Pluto correlates to how many lives have preceded the current one that we are living relative to these intentions. These are primary lives...thus, if the Mars/Pluto phase is First Quarter, for example, this would correlate to an individual who has had two previous lifetimes working on the main karmic/evolutionary axis.."

Then in the third paragraph JWG says, "A primary life can be determined when Mars is in one of the following aspects to Pluto: conjunction, semi-square, square, trine, sesquiquadrate, inconjunct, or opposition."

So, if you don't mind me using my own chart as an example to phrase my question, this is my confusion:

My Mars/Pluto phase is gibbious, which means according to JWG's first paragraph above, I have had 3 previous primary lives working on my evolutionary axis. The aspect between my Mars and Pluto is an inconjunct which means this is a primary life. So does this mean this is my 4th primary life working on my current chart dynamics? And this being the case, can there be any number of primary lives working on the same evolutionary dynamics?

Also, the exact aspect between the Mars/Pluto happens to be 154 degrees. So this aspect fits within the orb of an inconjunct (which I believe is 5 degrees). However, 154 degrees also happens to be a triseptile which is not a primary life. So in a case like this, would it be correct to analyze the aspect based on the inconjunct or the triseptile? Would this perhaps mean that I am at the very end of the 4th primary life and am transitioning to a subsidiary triseptile lifetime?

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi
« Last Edit: Jun 25, 2011, 01:49 PM by Heidi » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #35 on: Jun 26, 2011, 08:41 AM »

Hi Heidi,

"I have just read p.210 on the Pluto II book and am a little confused..

In the second paragraph on that page JWG says, "Thus, since there are eight primary phases, the phasal relationship between Mars and Pluto correlates to how many lives have preceded the current one that we are living relative to these intentions. These are primary lives...thus, if the Mars/Pluto phase is First Quarter, for example, this would correlate to an individual who has had two previous lifetimes working on the main karmic/evolutionary axis.."

Then in the third paragraph JWG says, "A primary life can be determined when Mars is in one of the following aspects to Pluto: conjunction, semi-square, square, trine, sesquiquadrate, inconjunct, or opposition."

So, if you don't mind me using my own chart as an example to phrase my question, this is my confusion:

My Mars/Pluto phase is gibbious, which means according to JWG's first paragraph above, I have had 3 previous primary lives working on my evolutionary axis. The aspect between my Mars and Pluto is an inconjunct which means this is a primary life. So does this mean this is my 4th primary life working on my current chart dynamics?"

********************

Yes, if that aspect is actually an inconjunct. This is where the question of orbs becomes so important.

*****************

 "And this being the case, can there be any number of primary lives working on the same evolutionary dynamics?"

************************

No, but there can be any number of subsidiary lives working on the core evolutionary dynamics.

************************

"Also, the exact aspect between the Mars/Pluto happens to be 154 degrees. So this aspect fits within the orb of an inconjunct (which I believe is 5 degrees). However, 154 degrees also happens to be a triseptile which is not a primary life. So in a case like this, would it be correct to analyze the aspect based on the inconjunct or the triseptile? Would this perhaps mean that I am at the very end of the 4th primary life and am transitioning to a subsidiary triseptile lifetime?"

*******************************

JWG did not use a 5 degree orb for inconjuncts. He used 3 degrees. And that is because of the very triseptile aspect that you are asking about: being so close to the inconjunct aspect. If your Mars/Pluto aspect is exactly 154 degrees equalling a triseptile this would mean that your very last life was a primary one which has lead to your current life being a refinement of that last life where such refinement is symbolized and reflected in the nature of the Gibbous phase triseptile.

**************************

God Bless, Rad
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Heidi
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 26, 2011, 02:06 PM »

Thanks Rad, much appreciated!

Given there are 8 phases, I'm assuming the maximum number of primary lives for working on the same core evolutionary dynamics are 8 lives?

Blessings,
Heidi
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Rad
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« Reply #37 on: Jun 27, 2011, 07:36 AM »

Hi Heidi,

Yes, with many subsidiary lives along the way.

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #38 on: Jul 01, 2011, 08:21 AM »

Hi everybody,

I’ve been meaning to ask this for a long time but I kept thinking that I must surely be missing something since nobody else had the same question.

So I’d like to ask a very basic question: if a primary life unfolds when Pluto/Mars are in any of the following aspects: conjunction, semi-square, square, trine, sesquisquare, inconjunct or opposition, then how is it that we talk about only 8 primary lives?

If we can identify a primary life when the aspect between Pluto and Mars is (not taking into account the orbs for each aspect): 0 degrees, 45 degrees, 90 degrees, 120 degrees, 135 degrees, 150 degrees, 180 degrees, 210 degrees, 225 degrees, 240 degrees, 270 degrees and 315 degrees, it seems to me that there should be more than 8 primary lives.

Anyway, I’m sure I’m missing something here, but I really can’t seem to find my way around this.

Many thanks once again for the great opportunity to learn from everybody on the MB. Although I haven’t participated lately in the discussions, I’ve been following closely and learning so much !

All the best,

Serban

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Rad
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« Reply #39 on: Jul 01, 2011, 09:48 AM »

Hi Serban,

That's because you are thinking in a linear way as in the Soul must move through each of the aspects that you have listed relative to primary lives. It does not work that way. All depends on the individual dynamics within the Soul that then correlates to the TYPE OF ASPECT that it will have within one of 8 lunar phases that correlate with a primary life. So, in other words, it's not linear which is why you are asking about it in this way. There can of course be many subsidiary lives that take place within the 8 phases.

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #40 on: Jul 07, 2011, 06:06 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you as always for your patience in dealing with my left brain approach to things, I really appreciate it.

One of the reasons why I thought things worked like that was something I read on the MB archive and misinterpreted.
Quote
When Pluto and Mars are in balsamic conjunction, can we assume that there was no balsamic semisquare direct aspect before?......since otherwise the current one would be primary life #9....
Jeffrey: No, the balsamic semi-square would have to have occured before ...

In light of what you just clarified and Jeffrey’s answer from the MB archive, would it then be correct to say that:  (i) when we see Mars/Pluto in a specific phase/aspect we can assume that the Soul has gone through all the experiences associated with the preceding phases and aspects; but (ii) such experiences which have occurred prior to the current lifetime do not necessarily have to be reflected in the Pluto/Mars relationship in the birthcharts for the previous lives, because such experiences can be reflected in many other ways which, as you once said to me in another thread, are not linear but holistic (aspects to other planets, sign and house locations etc.).

In this way, the phasal relationship would reflect where one starts off in the current lifetime with respect to the core evolutionary intentions and we can deduce from that starting point what the past was that has lead to the current lifetime starting line. However, although the types of experiences associated with the aspects that precede the current one must have occurred in order for the Soul to get to the current starting point, this does not mean that there has to have been a lifetime when Mars/Pluto were in each aspect that precedes the current aspect. For instance, if we see a first quarter square between Mars and Pluto, this means that the Soul has gone through the experiences associated with all the aspects that precede the first quarter square without however having to be born with Mars/Pluto in each of these aspects. Is this correct?

Going back to the 8 primary lives, the phasal relationship between Mars and Pluto in any given lifetime will be represented by a number of X degrees that falls somewhere in one of the 8 phases and when that number of degrees corresponds to a conjunction, semisquare, square, trine etc. we can deduce that the Soul is working directly on the evolutionary intentions reflected by the natal Pluto. Furthermore, the notion of primary life should be understood, as you said, as a series of lifetimes, as demonstrated by the orbs associated with the aspects that correlate to a primary life.

On a separate note, the same post I found on the MB archive contained the following answer by Jeffrey:
Quote
Hi Jeffrey, I am working on comprehending the Pluto/Mars symbols for the 8 primary lifetimes to work out a specific evolutionary intent. Since it is a specific intent, Pluto would always be in the same house, but could the Nodes
and their rulers vary throughout the 8 primary lives? Jeffrey: Yes ..

This is a bit confusing to me because in light of what I’ve learned so far I don’t think that Jeffrey actually meant that Pluto will show up in the same house in each lifetime until the evolutionary intentions symbolized by that house are completed.

Rad, I remember the birthcharts that you so kindly posted in another thread (thank you once again for that)  http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,408.msg7341.html#msg7341 which showed the same Soul in two successive lifetimes and it made total sense for me to see that for instance Pluto in Virgo in one life would turn up as Pluto in the 6th in the next life. So is it possible that Jeffrey: (i) focused only on the final part of the question (i.e. the part regarding the nodes) and confirmed that they may indeed vary from one lifetime to another; and (ii) did not mean to say that Pluto will always be in the same house until the evolutionary intentions corresponding to that house are completed?

All the best,

Serban

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Rad
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« Reply #41 on: Jul 07, 2011, 07:35 AM »

Hi Serban,

The answer to these questions have already been answered. I would suspect that the quotes from Jeffrey that you have cited from his old message board occurred because he must have been very tired, and not as attentive as he would otherwise normally be.  It's not what he taught.

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #42 on: Jul 07, 2011, 08:12 AM »

Hi Serban,

The answer to these questions have already been answered. I would suspect that the quotes from Jeffrey that you have cited from his old message board occurred because he must have been very tired, and not as attentive as he would otherwise normally be.  It's not what he taught.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

I was just trying to see if I have understood things correctly, so I apologize if I restated something that was dealt with before on the message board. I did that because it is usually very helpful for me to phrase an idea in several ways in order to fully assimilate it. I hope I was not out of place by doing that.

One question about what you wrote: did you refer to both the quotes I cited, or just the last one (which, as you pointed out does seem like Jeffrey being very tired)? I am asking because I am not sure whether you meant to say that the same applies to the first quote, because this first quote, at least as I interpreted things in my post above, seems to reinforce and confirm what has been discussed here.

Thank you once again for your help.

All the best,

Serban
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Rad
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« Reply #43 on: Jul 07, 2011, 08:20 AM »

Hi Serban,

I would have to go back and look at the entire sequence of that question and answer by Jeffrey from the old mb because it seems you have chopped off some of it ... I don't have the time to do that. Beyond that it isn't necessary to do as you have already been given the correct information about all of this. The answers you have been given are in fact what JWG actually taught.

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #44 on: Jul 07, 2011, 08:27 AM »

Hi Rad,

You're right..thank you once again for all your help.

All the best,

Serban
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