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Author Topic: PRACTICE CHARTS  (Read 71749 times)
Rad
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« Reply #15 on: Apr 04, 2009, 10:49 AM »

Hi,
 Ok, seems like there are a few of you know that want to do this. Let's start at first with an 8th house Pluto. I suggest this only because, for those who have been doing this work, you already know that many of your clients have indeed the 8th house Pluto.
  I would like to start this practice in very simple ways at first, and build from there. So for the beginning of this I would like all of you who are participating to post your own thoughts/ understanding of what an 8th house Pluto/ Soul's bottom line, Pluto, Soul desires have been that bring it to the current life. Right now we won't even put Pluto in a Sign. Just the house. Later on we will begin to add to this by way of putting it in a sign, then we will begin to condition it by way of the different Evolutionary Stages. After that we will discuss what the polarity point, the current life evolutionary intent is and progressively condition that by way of the different Evolutionary Stages. From there we will begin to add in the nodal axis, and their planetary rulers.
  So let's have a go at it !

  Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #16 on: Apr 06, 2009, 12:21 AM »

alright i'll start!

the underlying intent with an 8th house pluto is for the soul to experience itself.

the intent has been to create circumstances, relationships, practices etc that provide a sense of power and security for the identity until there is either a forced separation from that source of power, or a chosen removal from it. evolution of the soul has happened via the gradual realization that they have what they are looking for. in that realization, there is no longer a sense of limitation in not getting what one feels they need, and no longer a sense of power in the ephemeral form they were associating with... that is UNTIL the identity again feels a lack, and needs to fill that with a new experience, relationship, practice etc...

the evolutionary intent with pluto in the 8th has been to gradually burn through all desires that separate an individual identity from it's soul- which is the reason for it's existence in the first place.


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Issa
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« Reply #17 on: Apr 06, 2009, 05:23 PM »

The soul identifies itself with/ becomes a symbol of/ transformative power.  Coming in with an innate sense of what they want/need in relationships/experiences/ the soul goes through a process of necessary discernment.  Who to trust, what experiences to take part in, who to be close with. 

The big question is why. Always a deeper searching, always the identification with the symbol of personal transformation, whatever that symbol is.  It can be a candle flame, a ritual, a taboo, sex, death, yoga, meditation, tai chi- its something that connects the soul in with why why why and that innate power that transforms oneself. always asking the deeper questions, diving down, wanting bottom line and no b.s.

quick to integrate?


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Deva
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« Reply #18 on: Apr 07, 2009, 08:01 AM »

Hi, this is very cool! It is a great way to learn how to practise. I wanted to jump in and add that the 8th house Pluto soul will desire to penetrate to the core of itself (how it is pyschologiacally contructed and for what reasons-the famous "why" always being asked). The bottom line  to remember is that the 8th house Pluto desires to transform pre-existing limitations within itself in order to evolve past these limitations. This is why the Soul will be pyschologically penetrating itself in such an intense manner. Whatever areas that the Soul has identified itself with in the context of personal power (i.e-the career, the relationship, specific beliefs) will be blocking further evolution because of the over idetification with these areas from an egocentric point of view. The point is that the evolutionary intention is to use onselves as the source of personal transformation that the Soul is seeking, and not to become dependant upon any external source for this evolution to manifest. the Soul is, in essence, confronting these limiations within itself in order to evolve.
hope this helps
Deva 
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Kristin
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« Reply #19 on: Apr 07, 2009, 05:21 PM »

Hi all..

Good for you Ari for 'jumping in' and thanks Issa and Deva too. I love this building blocks idea rec. by Rad.

There is an expression in Sanskrit that came out of India that Jeffrey used to use that I love called, "Nette Nette" - not this, not that. In other words, there is a process of elimination that the Soul goes through in order to unearth who it is at the very core. I am not this and not that. This is similar to what any Soul goes through during a Pluto transit or currently now you can feel this 8th house enenrgy on a personal some level as tr Pluto rx squares a Venus rx, an intense awareness of what you need and then an elimination of whatever is getting in the way of the needs of the growth of your Soul. In many cases relationships that have reached their limit are either ending or transforming. Imagine these cycles on a regular basis with a Pluto in the 8th house placement.  Whatever is getting in the way of the growth of the Soul will be elimaintated.  The ULTIMATE desire to return to the ULTIMATE Source of power expresses itself as the need to eliminate all LIMITATIONS getting in the way of a direct union with God.

Pluto in general is the archetype of reincarnation...death and rebirth so the entire life can feel like that for such Souls. Continuous cycles of death and rebirth - Emotional, Intellectual, physical and spiritual. Cycles of this forced metamorhposis..wherever the Soul has become stuck or conditioned, fixed and stale.

I have heard many Pluto in the 8th clients say, I feel like a part of me is dying, and well it is. But in order for evolution to occur involution must happen first.


Peace..Kristin

« Last Edit: Apr 07, 2009, 05:35 PM by Kristin » Logged
inyo
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« Reply #20 on: Apr 07, 2009, 06:49 PM »

Is the 8th house pluto intrinsically attracted to 'trasformative' things such as death, sex, drugs, money, yoga or can they for instance feel that they are destined to paint puppies on rocks and have that be the transformative experience?
Like does the 8th house pluto kinda of 'attach' itself to something that for it defines a transformative experience whatever it may be until it no longer gets any growth out of it then it drops it.... almost shuns it. That's kind of my take on it... and the Scorpio Archetype.
Use it and then drop it like a bad habit. Like an obsessive need and then in the end, after its been fully experienced, probed and digested.... it comes out as excriment and the 8th house no longer has a need for it and flushes it away.... sorry for the graphic description.  But they get what they 'needed'.
Is this accurate at all?
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Linda
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« Reply #21 on: Apr 07, 2009, 07:20 PM »

8th house Pluto individuals desire to merge with sources and symbols of power in order to overcome their characteristic limitations. 

By merging with these symbols, they are able to absorb the power from them, thereby overcoming a sense of powerlessness or an over-identification with a limited or stagnant aspect of the self. 

Cyclic rebirth takes place discarding the old dynamics and old self-identification.

By an ongoing merging with more powerful symbols, they progressively evolve into something greater than what they were.

This transformative process, heightened in these individuals, represents one of the dual desires of the Soul to return to the Source.

They naturally understand that the force of transformation is inherent in the human psyche and in all things.  They have deeply penetrated into the mysteries of life.

Their favourite word is WHY.
« Last Edit: Apr 08, 2009, 11:06 PM by Linda » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 08, 2009, 10:01 AM »

Is the 8th house pluto intrinsically attracted to 'trasformative' things such as death, sex, drugs, money, yoga or can they for instance feel that they are destined to paint puppies on rocks and have that be the transformative experience?
Like does the 8th house pluto kinda of 'attach' itself to something that for it defines a transformative experience whatever it may be until it no longer gets any growth out of it then it drops it.... almost shuns it. That's kind of my take on it... and the Scorpio Archetype.
Use it and then drop it like a bad habit. Like an obsessive need and then in the end, after its been fully experienced, probed and digested.... it comes out as excriment and the 8th house no longer has a need for it and flushes it away.... sorry for the graphic description.  But they get what they 'needed'.
Is this accurate at all?


Yes, this is accurate. Even the painting the puppies on rocks cause that would be a SYMBOL that meant something to the painter. Once the nature and power of whatever symbol that the Soul is identifying with in order to evolve itself beyond it's existing limitations that correlate to how it's existing reality is defined have been fully osmosed, and thus no longer has any more power, it is in face discarded. The Soul at that point then desires new symbols in order for it's evolutionary process to continue.

 Rad
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inyo
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« Reply #23 on: Apr 09, 2009, 10:35 AM »

Ive never thought of it like this before but it sounds almost parasitic in a way. Attach, merge, discard. Thanks for answering.
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Stacie
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« Reply #24 on: Apr 09, 2009, 03:03 PM »

Inyo,

Sometimes it is indeed this way.. parasitic: attach, merge, discard.. depending on where one is coming from and the nature of motive that brought them there.  If the core orientation is emanating from a psychology of self-interest and exclusion, then indeed, the parasitic analogy is utterly apt.  But one can also enter this merging from a psychology of giving, sharing, and inclusion, with a core desire for mutual benefit.  In this case the merging strengthens all participants who have united, versus the other reality in which the dominant participant extracts the power of the other without a second thought about the depletion to the other that this 'extraction' has served.
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inyo
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« Reply #25 on: Apr 09, 2009, 07:59 PM »

Stacie,

yes i was just referring to the base nature of the soul to do that. I think it is reflected in natural law. you can see animals doing it on earth, galaxies devouring one another, black holes consuming yet creating and sustaining the structure of a universe.

I was just referring to it apart from the human aspect of it or the soul intent which can indeed, and probably does in most cases, make it a positive thing. It just reminded me of nature when I thought it, and I hadnt looked at it like that before.
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Stacie
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« Reply #26 on: Apr 09, 2009, 08:22 PM »

Hi Inyo,

And it's a great observation!  I'm glad you shared it.
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Issa
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« Reply #27 on: Apr 09, 2009, 09:33 PM »

Hey all: Stacie's words here below:::

"But one can also enter this merging from a psychology of giving, sharing, and inclusion, with a core desire for mutual benefit.  In this case the merging strengthens all participants who have united"

Here I see the coming times manifested through the scorpio archetype.  There's the intensity of the merging inherant in the 8th house -- including merging resources.  Opposite of 2nd house self-reliance/self-sufficiency.  Through merging resources and sharing from a solid mutual place wow just imagine the potential for collective transformation particularly NOW and the transforming of our very world before us (Go O'Bama Too!). 

Deeply transformative by nature, these eighth house/ pluto in scorpio creations ultimately manifest this "most high" mutual benefit intention.  As we're evolving, the soul exhausts all necessities to "use" another for personal benefit.  Manipulation can abound through scorpio archetype due to lazer penetration ability to see into the soul: motivations, weakness, wounds and true essence of another. 

Understanding one's power through the interplay of power and powerlessness renders the scorpio soul ever more deeply towards God. Beauty comes from the inside out, and Beautiful Powerful Transformative Beings must be RESPONSIBLE in their interactions with others.  An eighth house pluto person can get people onboard through the magnetic personality.  Responsibility, perhaps a capricorn word, must happen even if through nothing other than the DISCERNMENT and the GOD filled -ever yearning- forward intent -to transform exisiting limitations -inorder to evolve and drop the bullshit-

so many traces, sticky weavings and lines of connection understood through scorpio and the merging of souls, DNA and karma. This ultimately functions towards evolving the universe at large.  I want to thank inyo for her mention of universes engulfing universes, opening us up to the intergalactic scale. As I end this here for now, i invision Scorpio penetrating souls desiring GOD so deeply that the separating desires fall off like the drops of sweat as one runs towards freedom and liberation, being how GOD made us all to be. Through choosing consciously who to be close to we unweave and defrag the sticky lines of connection between souls, strengthening the web of GOD intended souls, so that we heal the planet and in turn, ourselves.
--

God Bless all of us,
Issa
 
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yarrow8
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« Reply #28 on: Apr 09, 2009, 09:57 PM »

Hi Inyo,

I found what you said to be very interesting:

Stacie,

yes i was just referring to the base nature of the soul to do that. I think it is reflected in natural law. you can see animals doing it on earth, galaxies devouring one another, black holes consuming yet creating and sustaining the structure of a universe.

I always like to learn more about the nature of the physical universe that we live in. I have my own opinions on black holes (as I'm sure most of us do), especially since they have no real direct evidence of their existence. Indeed, their very existence is merely a postulate founded on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle that Stephen Hawking ran with a few years back. I suppose that my problem with Heisenber's hypothesis is that he states that the physical universe is random and chaotic, totally without a pattern, which I just don't see. Astrophysicists do claim to have a picture of a black hole at the center of a galaxy, which I have perused but did not see any actual black hole in the picture. I have written to NASA and requested further proof on this matter and am waiting to hear back from them. I have heard the theories on galaxies crashing into one another (or at least the edges of galaxies colliding), although they don't have any pictures as of yet of this newly speculated phenomenon, so your statement about galaxies devouring one another piqued my curiosity. I wonder if you could provide me with a source for this so I can study it on my own?

Thanks,
Yarrow 
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yarrow8
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« Reply #29 on: Apr 09, 2009, 10:26 PM »

Hi Inyo again Smiley

I did just do a little research on the whole black hole/devouring galaxy thing (the theory seems to be that black holes are the centers of galaxies and simultaneously devour and create, which is interesting in and of itself) and came across this remark by an astrophysicist that I thought was highly applicable in the nature of 8th House proof. The article that the astrophysicist was responding to was by Eric Hand at nature.com called "Did Black Holes Form Before Galaxies?" written on 7 January 2009 (URL: http://www.nature.com/new/2009/090107/full/news.2009.6.html) and the text is as follows:

"It has been claimed by the astrophysical scientists that a black hole has an escape velocity >= c (speed of light in vacuo). However, according to the alleged properties of a black hole, nothing, not even light, can leave the black hole, so the BH has no escape velocity. If its minimum escape velocity is really that of light, then by definition of escape velocity, light would escape in that case. Not only that, if the BH had an escape velocity then material objects with an initial velocity less than that alleged escape velocity could leave the black hole but not escape (just go out, come to a stop and then fall back). Escape velocity does not mean that objects cannot leave; it only means they cannot escape if they have an initial velocity less than the escape velocity. So on the one hand it is claimed that BH's have an escape velocity >=c, but on the other hand that nothing, not even light, can even leave the BH. The claims are contradictory - nothing but a meaningless play on the words "escape velocity". Yet I note the following remark in this report: ?For one thing, the light from the black holes outshines any surrounding stars, making them difficult to see.? I also note the following remarks: "This constant ratio indicates that the black hole and the bulge affect each others' growth in some sort of interactive relationship," said Dominik Riechers of the California Institute of Technology, or Caltech. "The big question has been whether one grows before the other or if they grow together, maintaining their mass ratio throughout the entire process." Carilli et. al. do not specify what kind of black hole you claim at the centres of galaxies. The simplest alleged black hole is the so-called Schwarzschild BH, which comes from a solution to the field equations Ric = 0, which is a spacetime that by construction contains no matter. Now the Principle of Superposition does not apply in General Relativity (in other words, one cannot insert into any given spacetime, by an analogy with Newton's theory, any number of objects into that given spacetime. The Principle of Superposition does apply in Newton's theory). Since the spacetime of the so-called Schwarzschild BH is by construction devoid of matter, one cannot insert another Schwarzschild BH (obtained separately from Ric = 0) into the spacetime of the first Schwarzschild BH, so that the two BH's persist in and mutually interact in a mutual spacetime that by construction contains no matter! Similarly, one cannot simply insert matter other than black holes into the spacetime of the alleged Schwarzschild BH, a spacetime that by construction contains no matter. But that is precisely what the proponents of black holes do, all the time. But one cannot talk of black hole interactions until it has been proven that such configurations of matter are well defined in General Relativity. This can be done in only two possible ways: (a) derivation of an exact solution for two (or more) bodies, or (b) proof of an existence theorem. But there are no known solutions to Einstein's field equations for two or more masses and no existence theorem has been proven by which it can even be asserted that his field equations contain latent solutions for such configurations of matter. Therefore, all talk of the presence of multiple black holes or black holes interacting with anything, is just wishful thinking. Upon what solution to Einstein's field equations do Carilli et. al. rely for the presence of numerous black holes, or even one black hole interacting with other matter, such as alleged at the centres of galactic bulges? And by what solution to Einstein?s field equations do they calculate the mass of the black holes they allege? The alleged signatures of the black hole are (1) an infinitely dense point-mass singularity and (2) an event horizon. Nobody has ever found an infinitely dense point-mass singularity and nobody has ever found an event horizon, so nobody has ever found a black hole, despite the now daily claims by the astrophysical scientists that they have found them all over the place, in great numbers. Nobody has ever observed a celestial body undergo irresistible gravitational collapse and there is no laboratory evidence for such a phenomenon. Similarly, not only has nobody ever found an infinitely dense point-mass singularity anywhere, there is no laboratory evidence that such things exist. And similarly, not only has nobody ever found an event horizon; there is no laboratory evidence that such things exist. All reports of black holes being found are just wishful thinking - patently false ? unless you can provide the coordinates of a verified infinitely dense point-mass singularity and a verified event horizon. But there are of course, as you know, no such coordinates, because no black holes have ever been found. Since Carilli et. al. advocate existence of black holes from General Relativity they (and any proponent of black holes)are invited to provide answers to the following additional questions. 1. In the so-called "Schwarzschild solution" what does the quantity 'r' represent? Provide a proof of what your conception of 'r' therein is. 2. What do you say is the range on 'r' in (1) above? Provide a proof of your claimed range on 'r'. 3. Can you prove that the so-called "Schwarzschild solution" is Schwarzschild's solution? If so, provide the proof. Resorting to mere citation of the usual "authorities" will not do.You must provide arguments and adduce rigorous proofs in explanation and justification of your answers. After all, my questions are not complex."

Stephen Crothers
9 January 2009

Just thought that this was a very interesting bit of information regarding using Einstein's accepted Theory of General Relativity in relation to black holes and galaxies devouring one another. I would love to hear what you have found on the matter, Inyo, since I truly enjoy the realm of astrophysics!  Grin

Peace,
Yarrow
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