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Gonzalo
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« on: May 07, 2010, 02:41 PM »

Hi Rad,

Your indication that the archetypes for synthesis are Sagittarius, Jupiter and the 9th House, has kept me thinking for awhile, and several questions have risen. At his point my thoughts are as follows:

Sagittarius correlates with inductive thought. It goes from the effects to the causes, from particular truths to general truths, from facts to laws. It goes beyond particular and relative truths (Gemini) not merely because they compose something larger by themselves: two conflicting relative truths set aside don’t make a more general truth just by themselves, in fact what they apparently create “at first sight” is just a paradox. Synthesis of these particular truths is possible because there exists an ultimate Truth (Pisces) which is the cause and the reason for each particular truth. Larger-and Ultimate-Truth is intuited-Sagittarius, and such intuition allows that each particular truth be analyzed (Virgo) to obtain the pure ideas contained therein, which can then be synthesized with one another, as a part of something which is even larger. This is why Sagittarius is mutable fire: it goes back and forth (mutable) between creation (fire) and the Creator. Thus, if we didn’t have Sagittarius, so to speak, we would only have conflicting perspectives and crazy paradoxes, and we could have an experience of the Creator (Pisces), but we would not understand its relation with creation. This would be the relation I see between Sagittarius and synthesis.

Now, I wonder about synthesis as seen as an act of creation itself. Isn’t all complex matter (atoms, molecules) in the solar system a product of synthesis occurred in the Sun? Doesn’t the Leo archetype correlate with putting together and fusing (Leo-Scorpio, Sun-Pluto?) different internal and external elements to create something unique by giving them a personal role or meaning, in order to obtain acclaim? In art, this creative process can involve elements which don’t have any inherent connection among them, as in the bricolage. Their connection in this type of work of art is created by personal will.  It produces something larger but not by means of induction, but by means of creation, ie., deduction, going from the causes to the effects. The world does not become more simple or understandable, but quite on the contrary, it becomes fuller with phenomena. Thus the correlation of Leo with excess, but also with that which is fanciful or whimsy, or arbitrary. And further, with children and the way children play. So, I would think that there is a correlation between Leo and this type of synthesis.

Is the above correct?

Further,

Is Leo connected with evil and the archetype of Lucifer, considering that the manifestation of evil is a consequence of free will acting upon the desire to create something which deviates from natural law and God’s will?

Is there a conflict between Sagittarius and Leo, ie. between natural law and the excess of will? Was it God’s will that manifested creation would (as it could) not deviate from natural law as contained within creation? Or was it that natural law as contained within manifested creation when it was set in motion was imperfect, and that hence, natural law also needed to be changed (Sagittarius) by the Creator, as a consequence of the Creator’s evolution? 

Thank you so much, and

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 09:43 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

Hi Rad,

Your indication that the archetypes for synthesis are Sagittarius, Jupiter and the 9th House, has kept me thinking for awhile, and several questions have risen. At his point my thoughts are as follows:

Sagittarius correlates with inductive thought. It goes from the effects to the causes, from particular truths to general truths, from facts to laws. It goes beyond particular and relative truths (Gemini) not merely because they compose something larger by themselves: two conflicting relative truths set aside don’t make a more general truth just by themselves, in fact what they apparently create “at first sight” is just a paradox. Synthesis of these particular truths is possible because there exists an ultimate Truth (Pisces) which is the cause and the reason for each particular truth. Larger-and Ultimate-Truth is intuited-Sagittarius, and such intuition allows that each particular truth be analyzed (Virgo) to obtain the pure ideas contained therein, which can then be synthesized with one another, as a part of something which is even larger. This is why Sagittarius is mutable fire: it goes back and forth (mutable) between creation (fire) and the Creator. Thus, if we didn’t have Sagittarius, so to speak, we would only have conflicting perspectives and crazy paradoxes, and we could have an experience of the Creator (Pisces), but we would not understand its relation with creation. This would be the relation I see between Sagittarius and synthesis.

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Inductive thought is not Sagittarius, 9th House, or Jupiter. It is Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House. Thus, it's opposite, deductive thought, is Virgo, the 6th House, and Mercury. Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House does correlate to Ultimate and TOTAL truth. Yet consciousness in human form can not know the absolute totality of the Truth: it is limited by the nature of the form. For example, what is the origin of God itself ? And that Origin, and that Origin, and so on. Thus, the Soul and it's consciousness within human form can only induce through it's intuition a limited part of that total truth. And because it can only intuit through such induction limited truths of an ultimate nature this becomes the basis of what APPEARS to be conflicting truths. These conflicting truths of an apparent nature thus becomes the basis of conflicting ideas leading to a variety of philosophies and/or religions. In turn this becomes the basis of doubt due to the nature of these apparent conflicts. Doubt thus becomes the cause of asking ever more or deeper questions about the nature of the Creation in the first place. Sagittarius, the 9th House, and Jupiter attempts to synthesize via intuition the unity of these apparent conflicting truths, and the ideas that these various truths create. Yet, in the end, consciousness, embodied in human form that is called the Soul, can only realize, understand, or intuit via synthesis a limited amount of the Total Truth that is inductively sensed within the archetype of Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House. This is why even within the idea systems we call astronomy, astrophysics, and the like that the greatest of the  greats in those systems, like Einstein, Steven Hawkins, etc come to the same conclusion about the nature and origins of the Creation. And they all call that God. And, yes, Einstein was indeed a Pisces.

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Now, I wonder about synthesis as seen as an act of creation itself. Isn’t all complex matter (atoms, molecules) in the solar system a product of synthesis occurred in the Sun?

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No, because the Sun itself does not exist in vacuum by itself. It is but a manifestation of the total Creation that is part of the fabric or structure of that total Creation.

**************************************************************************

 Doesn’t the Leo archetype correlate with putting together and fusing (Leo-Scorpio, Sun-Pluto?) different internal and external elements to create something unique by giving them a personal role or meaning, in order to obtain acclaim? In art, this creative process can involve elements which don’t have any inherent connection among them, as in the bricolage. Their connection in this type of work of art is created by personal will.  It produces something larger but not by means of induction, but by means of creation, ie., deduction, going from the causes to the effects. The world does not become more simple or understandable, but quite on the contrary, it becomes fuller with phenomena. Thus the correlation of Leo with excess, but also with that which is fanciful or whimsy, or arbitrary. And further, with children and the way children play. So, I would think that there is a correlation between Leo and this type of synthesis.

Is the above correct?

****************************************************************************

Yes, in the way you have decided to put those archetypes together. But that is only one way to put together those archetypes. Yet, in the end, it still comes back to the same point: the Source of Creation itself and all of it's dimensions and apparent complexities.

***************************************************************************


Further,

Is Leo connected with evil and the archetype of Lucifer, considering that the manifestation of evil is a consequence of free will acting upon the desire to create something which deviates from natural law and God’s will?

***************************************************************************

Yes, and that would be the reason or explanation for Lucifer itself.

****************************************************************************

Is there a conflict between Sagittarius and Leo, ie. between natural law and the excess of will?

*************************************************************************

All things, phenomena, has been set in motion by the Creator including the possiblity of 'excess of will'. And that is due to the natural law of 'free choice' that the Creator is reponsible for Creating in the first place.

***************************************************************************

 Was it God’s will that manifested creation would (as it could) not deviate from natural law as contained within creation?

***************************************************************************

Natural Law as set in motion by the Creator contains within it the possibility of 'deviation'. Thus, it is part of Natural Law.

*************************************************************************

 Or was it that natural law as contained within manifested creation when it was set in motion was imperfect, and that hence, natural law also needed to be changed (Sagittarius) by the Creator, as a consequence of the Creator’s evolution? 

**************************************************************************

Yes. And that's because the nature of the Creator, as Wolf taught in his lifetime, is in fact not perfect. The very origin of 'imperfection' is the Origin of Creation Itself.

*************************************************************************



God Bless,

Rad
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 02:17 PM »

Rad,

You said "Wolf taught in his lifetime" ... I am not sure of what is implied in your phrase ... I am sorry if my question is totally our of place but please remember that English is not my language ...  isn't Wolf still "in his lifetime"?

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Steve
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 05:50 PM »

Hi Gonzolo

Quote
isn't Wolf still "in his lifetime"?

I'm pretty sure Rad meant "Wolf taught in his career", since he is no longer teaching.
Steve
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 06:00 PM »

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for your answer ... I am happy to read what you wrote.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 06:14 PM »

Hi Rad,

In relation to what I wrote about Leo as connected to “synthesis” you said “Yes, in the way you have decided to put those archetypes together. But that is only one way to put together those archetypes”.

I don’t intend to embrace any understanding of astrology differing from EA, or to make any reformulation of this paradigm. I wouldn’t be capable of doing such a thing either. For me, EA is “the one and only” astrology: the real astrology. The core of what I wrote about the Leo archetype is almost literal from the JWG book on Uranus. I understand that the EA paradigm has been evolving and that, further, bigger parts of this paradigm have been delivered after the time when JWG wrote the Pluto books. I feel that these new parts involve a certain shift in the paradigm, which has grown and is growing in complexity and depth. I also feel –of course I may be wrong-that much of this has been introduced or received by you Rad.

Because of the knowledge I know you have I have trusted it is ok to discuss some points; indeed I have felt invited to do so. This can be a projection. If you feel I should not do so, it is ok for me. It would be a correct answer for me. And what I am looking for is answers.

Of course from time to time I experience a need to rebel. Especially when I find out that, despite how hard I try, things don’t seem to work out for me. I do my best to do God’s will and to find God’s will: what is it that God wants from me moment to moment, from day to day. Though, I am so imperfect I tend to spoil everything. What I want most in my life is to find God, to be with God all the time. However, most of the time my question continues to be: where are you God, why can’t I find you? … So I wonder how to endure these times when the subjective feeling is that God is not showing and that, hence, I have to resolve things on my own … and because of this I try on different attitudes at ego level. I try to follow your advice about this: that it is ok to have an ego. I have thought that a strong ego is more adequate to fulfill any task that God wants me to do. I have also though that a weak ego is more likely to fall in whatever types of delusions of grandeur than a strong and well formed ego. It is these thoughts that induce my questions about the Leo archetype: no intention on my part to pretend I know more than I do, which is very little. My questions are also connected to the current practice chart: what type of synthesis or arrangement of ideas or tools that Soul would make, but I should continue with these ideas in that thread.

Hope this serves to clarify the meaning and intention of my questions, and the deep love I feel for EA, for this place and for you Souls who make it possible.

God Bless you Rad

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 08:56 AM »

Dear Gonzalo,
 
 Of course you can bring up or ask about anything on this EA message board. Indeed, that is the very intention of it. To date your contributions, input, and perspectives have been invaluable and have added perspectives that are educational in nature. The comment I had on your synthesis of the Leo/Scorpio/Lucifer archetypes was meant to be affirmative because that indeed was one of the ways these archetypes could manifest. So your synthesis was correct even though there are other ways within those synthesized archetypes to manifest as well.

 All Souls, all of us, have ego's Gonzalo. That is indeed the way the Creator created the nature of consciousness from an individualized perspective. It's not so much a matter of 'strong' or 'weak' ego as it is how the individualized consciousness, Soul, is orientated to the ego's that it creates from life to life. And, of course, it is the nature of that orientation that correlates, in the end, to the very evolution of the Soul in the first place, which is, indeed, the basis of this work that we call Evolutionary Astrology.

 Relative to not feeling God, experiencing God within, at this time is an increasing 'plague' on our planet. And that is because of the choices humans are making that are rooted in violations of Natural Law. And of course we could example that a thousand different way right now. And, because of this, those choices are allowing Lucifer to 'win', relatively speaking. And because of this this then creates an increasing 'pall' , like a dark cloud, all over this planet that permeates and invades the consciousness of all of us. So it's like trying to 'see' God through dark clouds that are becoming darker. And this is, indeed, intentional from Lucifer's point of view because the more that pall increases the more any Soul can feel an increasing sense of futility and self defeat. As more and more humans feel this collectively the more Lucifer will continue to 'win', and that 'winning' will correlate to increasing degrees and manifestations of all kinds of cataclysmic events on this planet. Thus, this can just keep compounding upon itself. The consequences of that become unspeakable in the end.

 Yet God of course does exist, is still there for all of us. Even in the most dire cataclysmic events we can still see God's hand at work in the form of humans trying to help other humans because of those events. And that, when it occurs, is the perfect example of the Natural Law or truth of 'giving, sharing, and inclusion'. On the other hand, it is tragic that it takes cataclysmic events to ignite this Natural Law in most humans at this time.

 Lucifer in now moving through the sign Cancer. And of course Cancer is part, archetypically, of our emotional bodies. As Wolf taught one of the main ways that evil operates is to magnify and distort negative emotions, like self defeat or futility, to a state where we just want to give up because we feel powerless to change or alter anything. It can create the perception that the 'pall' or 'dark clouds' that seem to make God non-existent in our life even darker, and more impenetrable, than ever. This is intentional by Lucifer.

 Yet even within the apparent dark clouds there is Light. And that Light is eternal for that Light is, indeed, God. When most Souls try to mediate, at first, they experience an inner darkness when close their eyes: dark clouds. For any Soul, as the Soul's birthright, persists through the psychology of determination that inner darkness will turn into the inner Light that can be perceived within. And as that Light is perceived the Soul remembers how to merge, fuse, with It. And, as that merging itself evolves, the Soul remembers that natural path or way HOME. So even though Lucifer in now in Cancer, home, we must remember too that Lucifer also correlates with God: the bearer of Light. And that Light is meant to show us the way Home: Cancer.

 Don't let Evil win Gonzalo. Allow God to win.

 God Bless you too Gonzalo..............Rad
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mountainheather
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 12:29 AM »

Hi Rad and Gonzalo,
I am riveted by this discussion. Thank you both for the chance to learn more.  I have a question about intuition. Is the intuition an avenue we use for inducing information about the Totality of creation (pisces) AND for the synthesis of information (sagittarius).  I am not clear about its definition here, as you have used it in reference to pisces and sagittarius in this thread.   I get that we intuit induced truths, and I get that we can intuit the similarities between the apparently conflicting truths we come up with, but are we using the same pathway to do that... is the induced an inner or transcendent path only and the synthesized a path that includes what is outside and around us? maybe I need another metaphor...

THank you , and blessings to you both, Heather
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Rad
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 09:18 AM »

Hi Heather,


".................is the induced an inner or transcendent path only and the synthesized a path that includes what is outside and around us? maybe I need another metaphor..."

*************************************************************************

Sagittarius, Jupiter, and the 9th House correlate to our awareness that the Earth that we live upon is connected to a much larger whole that we call the universe. This awareness 'induces' realizations of a non-linear or abstract nature about the nature of the universe that the Earth is part of. So, yes, this then includes what appears to be 'outside' of ourselves. This awareness thus induces of how the whole of the universe, including Earth, is interconnected or related to one another. This then becomes the basis of understanding and knowing through intuition of what we call the Natural Laws of the Creation that explains this interconnectedness: to understand the 'whole' truth. When this natural component of our consciousness is then linked with Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House it then attempts to induce realizations as the the nature of the manifested Creation in the first place: that which is responsible for the Creation of the whole that we call the universe. Thus the 'transcendent' truths of Creation itself. This awareness is then that which is responsible for desiring to KNOW those transcendent truths. In turn this desire to know these transcendent truths induces, through intuition, the natural truths or ways of doing so. To do so is then the basis or cause of intuitively knowing that such transcendent truths can only be know from WITHIN oneself: Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th House. This then becomes the basis and origin of natural methods or techniques that will allow for an 'induction' of that transcendent knowing. When those natural methods or techniques are employed by our consciousness this then leads to a 'transcendent state' within our consciousness in which the perception, knowing through direct perception, of the transcendent or comic laws of Creation occurs. And that knowing is 'induced' within our consciousness because of consciousness being in a cosmic or transcendent state. And this induction is based on what is perceived from WITHIN our consciousness that can then be applied to what we perceive by way of the Creation in it's externalized forms: Earth, the universe itself.


Rad
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PamS
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 05:40 PM »

Rad or Steve, if this is inapproiate of me to say, please delete this... I do understand!

pam Smiley

Gonzo, thank you for your honesty and vulnerability.. I  always appreciate what you have to contribute.  bless your heart and keep on loving yourself.   I wanted to ask you when you were saying that

I understand that the EA paradigm has been evolving and that, further, bigger parts of this paradigm have been delivered after the time when JWG wrote the Pluto books. I feel that these new parts involve a certain shift in the paradigm, which has grown and is growing in complexity and depth. I also feel –of course I may be wrong-that much of this has been introduced or received by you Rad

I was just wondering if when you feel or think someone is not addressing the EA paradigm maybe it’s a good idea to ask them what they mean?  We are all limited with this form of communication..  I think Rad , Steve and Deva have done a most wonderful job of overlooking this message board with deep respect to the EA guidelines.  I don't really see anyone trying to rewrite EA or arguing with each other about whose version of EA is better.  We are all here to learn and grow as human beings, no one is more loyal than others.  We are all here to participate in this wonderful paradigm.  Some of us have been doing it for longer, some of us are seeing clients , some of us are still in the newbie stage of the learning EA, but we all come here to share.  

I send you a big hug and best wishes on your finding your Bliss's


Blessings,

pam


« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 05:44 PM by PamS » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 08:48 PM »

Hi Pam,

"I was just wondering if when you feel or think someone is not addressing the EA paradigm maybe it’s a good idea to ask them what they mean?  We are all limited with this form of communication..  I think Rad , Steve and Deva have done a most wonderful job of overlooking this message board with deep respect to the EA guidelines.  I don't really see anyone trying to rewrite EA or arguing with each other about whose version of EA is better. "

I am not sure if I understood correctly what you mean, Pam. If I didn't please tell me so I can think about it and then address your question again.

Personally I don't think there are different EA's or competing perspectives or versions within EA. For me, there is one EA, Evolutionary Astrology. It was initially taught by JWG. This very same teachings, however, have  been evolving, growing and getting even deeper in its great understanding of the archetypes, of evolution, the Soul, spiritual reality, Natural Law, etc., and this has occurred through the work of Evolutionary Astrologers such as Rad, Deva, Steve, as you mention. I feel it is just wonderful and amazing that this evolution is happening. The "shift", ie. evolution, I said I think exists in the paradigm originates from the same source. And I think that, because of the richness of these teachings, much more will continue to appear from within the same teachings, and from the same source. This is just my intuition, and I can be wrong, but I don't think so. Just like as it has happened with other spiritual teachings. And I don't mean just different "interpretations" of a same set of ideas. I mean emanations of teachings which increase the understanding and the depth of the original teachings. I think Rad is not only teaching what JWG taught, but that he is a great contribution to the development and growth of this incredible paradigm.

... This was the sense of what I wrote before ...
 
Please let me know if I am addressing your question, Pam ... or if I didn't understand what you mean ...

God Bless,

Gonzalo






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PamS
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 08:05 AM »

Oh Yes Gonzalo,

you have explained yourself very clearly..I was not quite sure how you felt about the EA on this board.. you have now made yourself very clear now. 

Thanks Gonzalo, for bearing with me!

Hang in there you will find your way!!!

blessings,

Pam

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Gonzalo
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 08:25 AM »

Dear Rad,

Thank you for your kind reply. Very encouraging and validating. 

“It's not so much a matter of 'strong' or 'weak' ego as it is how the individualized consciousness, Soul, is orientated to the ego's that it creates from life to life.”

This is very clarifying for me: it is the Soul that orientates to the ego it creates, despite de ego illusion that it needs to identify its Soul: the ego is also the Soul.

I will not let Lucifer win. God will win. 

“The integration point between the dual nature of desires within all of our Souls is elimination. Eliminating, in the end, all separating desires to the exclusion of the only desire that can remain, and that desire of course it to reunite with that which is the Cause of Creation. The means for evolution to take place is based on this natural law of elimination within the Soul as reflected progressively in the ego's that it creates from life to life.”


Is this because the ego embodies the illusion of being separIate and distinct from anything else, the wave as separated from the ocean? … being such illusion maintained by the desire to separate? … and that, then, the ego the Soul creates from life to life reflects the extent up to which this illusion and the desire that supports this illusion, are operating?

The answers given are helping me a lot ... when I start writing my questions and replies I have an idea of what I think and then, in the process of  doing so, I see there is more than what I thought, or that it is different of what I thought ... 

Thank you so much for your patience with me Rad.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 08:50 AM »

Hi Pam

Thank you so much for your posts.

I truly appreciate your honesty and directness ... it helps me a lot ...

And, I am glad I could make myself clear ...

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 10:20 AM »

HI Gonzalo,

"Is this because the ego embodies the illusion of being separIate and distinct from anything else, the wave as separated from the ocean? … being such illusion maintained by the desire to separate? … and that, then, the ego the Soul creates from life to life reflects the extent up to which this illusion and the desire that supports this illusion, are operating?"

***************************************************************************

Yes ..........exactly .....


God Bless,

Rad
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