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Author Topic: idea for practice thread  (Read 25709 times)
PamS
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 07:57 AM »

Hi all,

Ellen so sorry for the snaffuu about you own Bio... we are all trying to figure this process out....  Smiley


When I have a client call me for a reading, I just ask very basic questions....  Date, time, place etc.. Economic status as child, any religious up-bringing, married etc....  I also ask why they want a reading and if anything pertinent is going on.  This is a good thing to point out, as when I started doing more and more readings people assumed I was a psychic....  I had a client who did not tell me that she had just had a ovary removed for the third round of cancer.. we did not even get to that.. I was picking up the very stuck scorpio energy, and heavy Pluto transits.  I asked her if she had had a difficult childhood and she said no, but then finally said she had grown up in Germany during the war and bombs were going off all the time and her mother was a sever depressive, which lead to another discussion.... but what I mean by all this is that for me most of what I pick up about someones stage happens by my conversations with them..  

what is the best way to address that in  this thread....

blessings,

pam
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 08:02 AM by PamS » Logged
stephen
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2010, 11:59 AM »


Hi All,

  A really excellant idea for a thread, Ellen.

  By the way, just to throw my opinion out there, I like the idea of using public figures (famous/non-famous) who have sufficient and accurate biographical information.  Like Carl Jung, or Sarah Palin, etc...and then perhaps a moderator could step in occasionally and keep us on track when we come to a conclusion...or a halting point...?

Quote
  Anyhow, she popped in and said something like, "I am very concerned for my daughter, and she has spoken of you highly as someone that cares for her. Her behavior is erratic... she is in so much inner turmoil...she blames everyone else for her problems, she works for me at my restaurant and takes such advantage of me...she is late for work all the time, she is completely irresponsible, she is bitter to everyone, she is isolating herself and is not open to anything or anyone...she blames me for all her problems and she hates me,she does not think i love her or care for her, she is breaking my heart...etc. etc."  The mother basically came to me in desperation!... a call for help. I chatted with her a while --and to make a long story short, I did my best to direct her into letting go of the guilt she is carrying, if even for one split second!-- and I know she was brought to tears with me bc she told me "i am crying right now dhyana, thank u" --, and I assured her that I KNEW,( as a mother myself), that she loved and cared enormously for her daughter and somewhere in side, so does the daughter!. etc.
  (And something important to note about the daughter, is that she has an addiction to prescription meds, the mother is aware of this too, but i do not feel the mother knows the extent of the addiction ( or maybe she just does not want to know) --that's another story --(ie. stole medications from my home, her grandfathers home, etc).

Dhyana,

  It does sound as if Ashley fits into the Individuated Stage.  That she would consider possibly seeing an Astrologer (even though she did not follow through) would probably move her out of the Consensus Stage.  Also, since the archetype is that "a second or third stage consensus person is DEFINED by conforming…that is WHO THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS.  They value SAMENESS..." I would say then she is past consensus.

  By the way, 'she is completely irresponsible' - in those opinion, the mother's?  What is the mother's definition of responsibility (or lack thereof?)  Is it a consenus opinion of responsibility?  So, what does the daughter think is important...where in HER life does SHE think she is responsible?


  You said that "she is kinda avant garde in many respects and she truly feels apart from society, friends and family, she is quite rebellious and seems to feel VERY isolated" so that seems to move her up out of 1st stage Individuated, since 1st Individuated "are different, and yet afraid to be different; pretending to be normal, and yet are not" is the archetype.  She doesn't seem to be pretending to be normal, by what you said.

  The archetype for 2nd Individuated is "look very different, have deep anger about the way things are…and underneath, fear being pulled back into consensus".  That fits what you stated as "she is bitter to everyone, she is isolating herself and is not open to anything or anyone"  However, in 2nd stage, she would be possibly reaching out to like-minded Souls.  Is she doing something of that nature with a peer group?  You stated that her mother said that "she has spoken of you highly as someone that cares for her."  Could she be reaching out to you...even intermittantly?  Also, related to that...can we get a more objective opinion than her Mother?  I say that because of this statement: "she blames me for all her problems and she hates me".  I feel there might be a subjective response...

  So...that leaves the question of Masking/Hiding: "At its extremes this can create a 1st stage spiritual person you could even confuse with consensus, so again it comes back to inner listening a lot more than what you are seeing on the outside."  What is her opinion of the Divine/God/Divinity?  Not religion per se...but spiritual realities?  As per the following: "You are not going to find 1st stage spiritual hiding in consensus reality.  1st stage spiritual is incapable of hiding in consensus reality.  It may not always LIKE that it is incapable of doing that hiding, none the less it can't.  It will also not feel it has no clue who it is…they do know who they are, that is the problem.  They may not understand how different from everyone else they are…that would relate to the feeling of not being seen.  They are typically going to have many experiences from early childhood on showing them they are NOT going to be loved for who they are.  That in fact almost no one will have any idea who they are.  Those experiences, while not fun, are designed by the Soul to throw that person back on them self, to be forced to explore their inner reality more deeply."  What is her opinion of herself?  What does she want out of life?  I think of hiding because of the following: "she is bitter to everyone"

  Also, here is a question for Steve/Rad/Deva/Adina, if I may, about Hiding:  Can a Soul that is hiding have anger issues?

  Looking for feedback and discussion.

  Again, great idea for a thread.

Blessings,
Stephen
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Dhyana
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 12:52 PM »

Wow, thank you Stephen! Thanks for already helping me fine tune this girls stage. I have some responses to the questions you posed, but first I did want to make sure that others on this thread were okay with using this girls story to start the process here.  I do not want to overstep the wishes of Ellen or any of the people who are trying to get this idea going.  So I will first just wait on the feedback from others here to see if they would like me to begin a fuller description of the girl, OR her mother?

Thank you so much Stephen, bc what you already posted has helped clarify much.

Blessings,
Dhyana
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Steve
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 01:31 PM »

Quote
Also, here is a question for Steve/Rad/Deva/Adina, if I may, about Hiding:  Can a Soul that is hiding have anger issues?

yes.  ultimately they would be angry at self for hiding.  this would likely be denied and then projected onto others.  hiding is a neptunian thing - it would be common for the projections of anger to be passive-aggressive.   bitterness can be associated with pisces/neptune also, where they grow resigned to what's happened in life, how unfair its been (victim).  and on some levels, cease trying and grow bitter.
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PamS
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2010, 01:57 PM »

Wow this is teriffic,

Ellen,  can we started with this one Dhyanna has started?  I want to know know more about the girl and mother.... 2nd stage indivuated is an interesting one.... And yes I agree with Stephen, what does the mother define as irrresponsbility?  My mother still thinks of me that way-my mom is 2nd stage consensus trying to move into 3rd consensus.....

so i too will wait to hear from ellen about it...

pam
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Elen
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2010, 02:20 PM »

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your interest!  Yes, Dhyana, by all means, let's go forward.  I am still hopeful that people will "role play" (as Steve alluded to in an earlier post).  For me, that would be very helpful practice.  EXPERIENCING the client presenting to me.  Also, EXPERIENCING what it FEELS like to BE that person.  For me, both ways would give me understanding I might not otherwise get by talking ABOUT people.  However, I definitely appreciate the value of these discussions, so I say onward!


HEATHER,
Yes, by all means - whenever you can hop in and contribute, please do!


PAM,
re: your ?.  Would you be interested in trying to role play someone from your experience?  That is how I was thinking about this thread.  It may not go that way, and that'd be ok.  The main thing is to keep talking about stages.

STEPHEN,

I also find it helpful to discuss famous people.  But if it's ok with you and others, I'd like to suggest we do that on another thread.  Perhaps continue on one of the other threads where that's been happening, or start a new one...  Thoughts, anyone?

Ellen
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Dhyana
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2010, 02:23 PM »

I could role play her (Ashley). Maybe that will be even more useful for me bc I can then put myself in her shoes.  And then, if I want some help with her chart etc. I can make a new topic for that afterwards?  How does that sound?

Let me know and I will start.

Love,
Dhyana
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Elen
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2010, 02:26 PM »

Re: Steve's comment:
 I guess I'm surprised that there's anger in 1st stage spiritual, at all (don't think I've heard of this before)...just not clear on this so hope it can be cleared up - thanks.

Hi Bluesky,

I just wanted to comment on the above part of your post.  I have been told that I am 1st spiritual and I have spent most of my life in various stages of enragement.  I have Mars conjunct SN and Jupiter in Aries squaring nodes.  Interestingly, as I learn more about the stages, and in addition allow myself to internalize the FACT that I am not actually physically in danger in this life, I am beginning to shift towards feeling compassion and understanding towards the consensus people in my life...

Also re: anger.  I recall JWG in a lecture saying he "came out of the womb angry" trying to rip off his white skin.  If I remember correctly, he said he also has Mars conjunct SN.  I hope this helps.

I am intersted in what others have to say about this.

Peace,
Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2010, 02:28 PM »

I could role play her (Ashley). Maybe that will be even more useful for me bc I can then put myself in her shoes.  And then, if I want some help with her chart etc. I can make a new topic for that afterwards?  How does that sound?

Let me know and I will start.

Love,
Dhyana

Hi Dhyana,

Cool!  I think looking at the chart on this thread would fit in as we would be trying to understand it from the stage we've identified.  Are others ok with this?

Ellen
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PamS
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 02:32 PM »

Hi all,

great idea ellen start another threat of famous people... why not the more practice we all have the better!

Id be happy to role play.. I dont know what that will look like... My mother is 2nd stage consenseus (see there is a reason why she is my mother, so I can role play her!! hee hee hee).. not sure how that would look... I think we need more info from Dhyana....


pam
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 04:28 PM by PamS » Logged
Elen
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 02:32 PM »

Quote
Also, here is a question for Steve/Rad/Deva/Adina, if I may, about Hiding:  Can a Soul that is hiding have anger issues?

yes.  ultimately they would be angry at self for hiding.  this would likely be denied and then projected onto others.  hiding is a neptunian thing - it would be common for the projections of anger to be passive-aggressive.   bitterness can be associated with pisces/neptune also, where they grow resigned to what's happened in life, how unfair its been (victim).  and on some levels, cease trying and grow bitter.

I can vouch for all of this    Cheesy
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PamS
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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2010, 02:41 PM »

Hi Ellen and Bluesky,


Yes there is anger in 1st stage spiritual, 2nd stage, even 3rd stage spiritual anger does not go away as you evolve..How we deal with the anger, how we process it, how we act or not act it out is what defines the evolution...I would say that anger at powerlesness would be less in spiritual stages as one would know their inner workings.   feelings are feelings, they are human.  Remember Jesus in a fit of anger threw over the tables of the money lenders, he was angry at the unfair system.  Any soul would be angry at the unfair system that we live in.  Ellen is right when she said the JWG tried to tear his skin off as a child because he was white... Mars conjunt SN.....  I am sure others will have more to say...

blessings,

pam

« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 03:01 PM by PamS » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2010, 03:00 PM »

Wow, this is really odd, I just went to my facebook page.  And I had written a quote in my status that reads -- "Who you are, in truth, in the very core of the soul, who everyone is, is whole and perfect and beautiful.-- And KNOW, this is not said in the "new age" kinda "airy fairy" way, either --And if that can be recognized, then it is possible that self-torture can stop!" QUOTE inspired by GANGAJI 11 hours ago clear

And then, under it (Oh my, I have not spoken to her in about a year) "Ashley" left this comment " I miss u...you were like my surrogate mother for a while there.
23 minutes ago ·
."

Wow! I really did not expect that today!  

I do believe that this isnt just coincidence -- so let me get on with her story bc it is obviously quite timely and gracefully orchestrated.

I will be posting her story by tommorow.

Love to all,
Thanks 2 you all,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 03:17 PM by Dhyana » Logged
PamS
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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 04:04 PM »

Hi Bluesky,

I think I was confused because, from all of my EA readings (books, DVDs and this board) I always associated anger with 2nd individuated and in fact considered it a hallmark indicator of that particular stage. certainly gives more info to work with.

Yes your are 100% correct... 2nd stage indivuate Anger is the calling card....by 1st spiritual my feeling is that you might have  anger, yet your soul development would be that you would have access and rescources to express yourself in many different ways... I just saw Pres Obama, getting really angry today at those amazingly awful oil companies... I think in 2nd indivuated you might just get your guns out with that anger...

hope that make sense....

pam
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mountainheather
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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2010, 05:00 PM »


Hi everyone,
I am ready to hear the bio of the mother and the daughter.
One question: How do we interpret with an addict actively using.  My experience tells me that behaviours such as Dhyana described are classic addict behaviours, so how do we interpret them... are they "real" with regards to evolutionary state or a function of her substance use or are they both... is she "hiding" behind her habit...
I look forward to exploring further with you all, Heather
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