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Author Topic: a soul being forced to "go back" in its evolution  (Read 1378 times)
ari moshe
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« on: May 20, 2010, 10:50 PM »

For more info about this condition, check out Pluto II page 40.

Has anyone here had any experiences actually recognizing such a situation? I have a particular chart in mind in which I wonder strongly if this soul did some horrible things in the past, and has "de-evolved" significantly to start over so to speak.

Can I post this chart with a short bio? I posted it a year ago, but not for these purposes.

In general, when it comes to the condition of "de-evolution" does a soul always go back to the dimly evolved state, or is it entirely different case to case? I imagine it must be different- as reflected in the nature of the karma that has been generated.

Also, if a soul was forced to go back to the dimly evolved state- 1000 lifetimes later when it's somewhere in the consensus state, would we be able to discern via observation and correlation that it's actually evolving through the consensus for the second time?

Thanks
Ari Moshe
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 10:01 AM »

Hi Ari,

For more info about this condition, check out Pluto II page 40.

Has anyone here had any experiences actually recognizing such a situation? I have a particular chart in mind in which I wonder strongly if this soul did some horrible things in the past, and has "de-evolved" significantly to start over so to speak.

Can I post this chart with a short bio? I posted it a year ago, but not for these purposes.

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Yes....................

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In general, when it comes to the condition of "de-evolution" does a soul always go back to the dimly evolved state, or is it entirely different case to case? I imagine it must be different- as reflected in the nature of the karma that has been generated.

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Yes, it's different to reflect the specific nature of the karma created...i.e. a 3rd Stage Consensus could go back to 2nd Stage, etc, etc, etc.............

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Also, if a soul was forced to go back to the dimly evolved state- 1000 lifetimes later when it's somewhere in the consensus state, would we be able to discern via observation and correlation that it's actually evolving through the consensus for the second time?

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Yes, because they would have already learned or 'mastered' that stage: thus understanding it.

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Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 09:45 PM »

Thank you Rad,

What I'm going to do is provide a bio and then share some of my ponderings as to what her evolutionary condition/ de-evolution condition may be (if at all).

This soul is clearly hiding, and as a result of her hiding has generated immense feelings of victimization and powerlessness throughout her entire life. She is the mother of 4 children who themselves all  seem to have pretty intense karma with her. She is a nursery school teacher- though due to depression and physical pain in her body, she worries that she may not be able to continue her work.

Other than that- she tends to be on the dark side. Sleeps all day. has been on prescription meds- MANY of them- for a few decades now. She has developed a paranoia that someone is always trying to do something bad to her. Keeps the doors locked 24/7. Perpetual negativity being projected outwards. She plays the role of the sadist in her marriage, while her husband is constantly tip-toing just to make her happy. Meanwhile he does not have the capacity to fulfill her sexual needs, listen to her in a way that she feels heard, validate her emotions etc- so she is always being faced with supplying her own needs for herself. As her life's choices show- she has for the most part avoided that evolutionary lesson.

She grew up to an emotionally and immensely arrogant father. Her mother avoided conflict. Jewish non religious, yet highly conformist second stage consensus family it seems. She has always been VERY open minded. Her husband is probably 3rd consensus cusp first individuated. All but one of her children seem to already be first individuated or entering first individuated stage. She is accepting of homosexuality, the marriage, or non marriage choices of her children etc. One of her children is first spiritual- and she often asks him questions about the meaning of life- or various health/breath practices. She is open and at the same time actively resists learning anything NEW. In my conversations with her, I am blown away at how much spirituality she actually understands. Yet, the psychology of "I can't take care of myself- i'm innately disempowered by my overall condition in life, by other people, by my body etc" is so strong in her- she seems to avoid listening to her really strong intuition.

Another note- she seeks doctors- many doctors getting many medical opinions. She's constantly googling various diseaes, trying to figure out which of her many symptoms correlate to the various chronic diseases/illness she is convinced she has. Because she sees so many doctors, she also received conflicting prescriptions from them and conflicting opinions. She basically does anything but look to herself- yet SHE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOOK WITHIN. I almost feel like she's just playing dumb. However maybe she doesn't "really understand" as, if she did then she'd demonstrate her understanding.

She acts like a first individuated state soul. Outwardly appearing normal, but inwardly questioning everything and she opens up about her questions and confusions to very few. Privately she does not follow the rituals of the Jewish religion she is a part of, yet she for the most part gives off the appearance of being moderately observant. She just attended a synagogue last week that is more liberal, gives women more rights, and she was very happy/empowered about having done so.

She watches consensus state television reguarly and follows the consensus fads/health advice. While she understands alternative, more intuitive approaches- she limits herself mostly to consensus beliefs and often times ardently defends them.

So I estimate her to be first individuated or cusp of first individuated/ 3rd consensus.

At this time in her life she is beginning to question whether God exists. And she recently admitted to her son "I feel like im really starting to explore these big questions for the first time. many people never do this." She's toyed with various meditations that come and go- things recommended on oprah and the likes- As well as popular new age books on healing etc. In the end she has lacked the actual motivation and desire to go for the things she knows will help her. Once she saw her son doing tai chi and she said "I know this stuff works and it makes total sense to me. I dont know why I dont do this".

CONSIDERING THE POSSIBILITY OF DE-EVOLUTION FROM THE SPIRITUAL STATE:
So all that makes me wonder if she has de-evolved from the spiritual state- perhaps second stage spiritual. Because the inner wisdom and innate understanding of things seems very real to me. Also, when she isn't talking, in a moment of silence, I '"feel" wisdom. Yet at the same time she cyclicy refuses to take responsibility for her own dynamics in a way that seems incomprehensible for the level of intuitive wisdom that I feel in her.

The chart speaks clearly to all these dynamics and evolutionary intentions for this life. The Pluto Mars new phase implies that in this life she is meant to initiate a new path for herself to set herself on a new journey of inner discovery. Yet this Pluto Mars new phase squares the nodes, integrated through the nn in Taurus in the 6th, ruled by Venus in Aries which is a gibbous phase inconjunct to the nn, and is ruled by Venus in the 5th which opposed Neptune in Libra in the 11th, which itself is a gibbous phase inconjunct to the 6th house nn- amongst many things- imply the strong theme of making adjustments and learning HUMILITY as a necessary way to carry out the soul's intent.

So I wonder if she has hurt, killed, manipulated and used others in the past- as a spiritual cult type leader- having lead and manipulated groups of people based on an egocentric need for power and recognition etc. And therefore she has been blocked from advancing spiritually until she learns the lessons of humility and not always thinking about herself.

CONSIDERING THE POSSIBILITY OF SIMPLY BEING IN TRANSITION FROM CONSENSUS STATE (i.e. NO  de-evolution condition):
That would make sense to me- and I would interpret the chart from the point of view of having had immense power in the past, having abused it- and now in order to evolve beyond that level of power, she has been forced via evolutionary necessity into this life (this life being the first life- because of the Mars Pluto new phase, right?) in which she is humiliated and dis empowered in order to force greater inner reflection, humility to forge new self reliance to bring her into the individuated state.

However the only reason why I do not feel inclined to consider this possibility is for the above stated observation of her inner wisdom. She understands things that most people coming out of the consensus state do not understand. Yes she listens to consensus opinions and does what her doctors tell her to do. But for example when she saw her son swishing coconut oil in his mouth as an aryuvedic form of oral health care, she inquired into it and decided that it made sense to her and on her own volition decided to adopt it as a practice. It doesn't take her long to "get" things intuitively. Even though she generally resists learning new things most of the time/ she has a general resistance towards "beginners mind".

DEVOLUTION CONDITION FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE INDIVIDUATED STATE.
I can see the possibility of having de-evolved from second stage individuated. This stage would account for the arrogance that seems to be in resolution in this life. Also, at this stage there is a great focus on one's alternative values/lifestyle- and fervently, sometimes violently rejecting all external forces that impose upon one's innate individuality/freedom. All the violence and arrogance, manipulation, power hunger could have easily manifested there. The only issue is there is an innate wisdom I feel within her that I feel may surpass second stage individuated. This however may be my own projection. I know many second stage souls who have wisdom of a transcendental nature.

I can see also the possibility of third stage individuated, though not as strong. In third individuated the focus is fully actualizing one's individuality fully within society. One is very open minded and socially adept. However arrogance can be extreme in third stage indiviudated.

I deduce that de-evolution from first stage spiritual wouldn't be a possibility here. Perhaps I am pre-maturely excluding that option. I make this deduction because in in the frist spiritual the theme itself is humility.

ADDITIONAL QUESTION:
Underlying this exploration is the question "what does it actually look like when a soul has de-evolved, and yet "understands" the stage it has de-evolved into. That's what I've been trying to keep in mind while considering the possibilities of this particular soul's condition. Are there any exampels of famous folk that are well known who you observe has de-evolved?

Thank you so much for your guidance,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2010, 09:45 PM »

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bluesky
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2010, 10:32 PM »

whenever I see a heavy aquarius/leo emphasis, especially with all these planets in those signs retrograde, I think of someone who as least tried to individuate in the past and maybe overdid it (negative action).

If I interpret Rad's comments correctly, this could be a cause for de-volution.  Is she frustrated that she seems caught in a consensus "reality", feeling that she belongs somewhere else?
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ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2010, 11:12 PM »

Hi Bluesky- yes the retrogradation is an important point I didn't bring up. it certainly does emphasize the dynamic of having "overdone it" in the past, and in and of itself has the implication of needing to "go bacK, introspect and do again."

When I really look into it, it seems like she is frustrated with not being in the center of attention. As if her soul has come to EXPECT something more than what she has. I can't say she is frustrated with consensus reality- she seems to hold onto it very tightly. And I feel that is a part of her "hiding" strategy.

For example, she does not want to know what's going on in the world. She adopts to consensus opinion, yet very clearly is aware that there is more to know that what she is willing to take in. She once said to her son something like "i could see myself not eating meat at some point" or maybe it was more like "if I knew what was really going on with farm animals, I don't think i would buy meat anymore"... She watches fox news because that's what people do in her locality. And so she tends to assume the facts and social opinions according to what she watches on television. Everyone around her is racist when it comes to arabs, and so, she is too- but not in a blatant "i hate arabs" kind of way, more in a "im just copying you" kind of way. However when she is engaged in conversation about anything political- she just seems to truly regard people as human beings and just wishes there to be peace.

BTW, she is really proud of her spiritual state son- almost idealizes him, admires him for his ways of being. She RECOGNIZES something it seems. I don't know if she recognizes the individuated aspect of her son, or the spiritual aspect of her son.

Who she really is at the core is not anything close to what she expresses externally.
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Rad
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 12:34 PM »

HI Ari,

 This is not a case of de-evolution.

Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 02:29 PM »

Thanks Rad.
Would you mind sharing your basic observations that lead to such a conclusion? My assumption is, she simply does not seem to portray the self awareness of a soul who has already been here, done that. Thus making this the first lifetime in which is beginning this evolutionary journey to transition into the individuated? (Observations of her in correlation to her Mars Pluto new phase conjunction?)

Would you or anyone site a name of a well known soul who has de-evolved, so that I can see an exemplification of this condition?
Thank you.
Ari Moshe
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Rad
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 01:54 PM »

Hi Ari,

 Just reading through what you have presented about her leads to the observation that she is not in a situation of karmic caused de-evolution. The Mars/Pluto new phase of course does suggest that her Soul is setting off a new cycle of evolutionary progression.

 A classic case of karmic caused de-evolution would be Hitler: after he committed suicide his Soul rebirthed very quickly into, of all places, Poland. He came into a mother who took some of the drugs of that time, I forgot that name now, that proved to create horrible deformities and disabilities in the fetus. Thus, Hitler was born without arms or legs: just stumps. His face was a gnarled mess too. And it goes from there ...

Rad
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