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Author Topic: Pluto conjuct Asc, North node, 12th house all in Libra  (Read 2654 times)
hope101
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« on: Jun 27, 2010, 10:04 AM »

Hello,
i am a thirsty novice to EA and have loved reading the wealth of knowledge and ideas shared here. In studying the attached chart i have found some very deep irony and wondered if anyone wanted to expound upon it. The Pluto polarity point is in Aries in the 6th conjunct the decendant, and as stated above there is a 12th house stellium with the north node, ascendent, Pluto, and i believe Ceres? (fishhook with a cross@ the bottom) (LOL! still learning the asteroid glyphs!)all conjunct in Libra.
How does this dynamic play out in EA terms? What types of solutions could be given to a soul with this dynamic?
care to use this chart as a practice chart??

* anonymous natal chart.doc (66.5 KB - downloaded 106 times.)
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ari moshe
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 27, 2010, 12:32 PM »

Welcome Hope101!

Can you post some biographical info so we can get a sense of this soul's background and evolutionary state? Understanding the evolutionary state is fundamental before interpreting a chart.

Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 28, 2010, 08:22 AM »

Hi Hope,

Thank you for supplying that info.

So if I understand your question correctly, you are asking about Pluto and it's polarity point? As I understand it, because Pluto is on the north node, the polarity point is n.a. This is because the Pluto polarity point in general signifies the greatest challenge to the greatest security a soul has established for itself. In this case,with Pluto on the north node, it means that the polairty point, being conjunct the south node, is already familiar to this soul. The intent is to focus fully on the north node. This is not a new intention- prior to this lifetime, the soul has been developing itself in this way.

However, given the Sun squaring the nodes, with the sn being the last node the Sun formed a conjunction too, integration of the soul's purpose (Sun) takes place first through the south node in Aries. This is a neccesary step in this soul's development.

To learn more about the nodes, and PPP, check out these threads:

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,159.0.html

And there are other threads too that explore the same questions with the same answers over and over again! So you should find ample info out there if you search for it.

Here Pluto is conj the nn in Libra in the 12th, (with Venus in Gemini in 8th opposing Neptune in second) so, in general, this soul's desire has been to learn how to objectively listen to their own needs, to learn when to give and when not to. In that learning process this soul is necessarily faced with it's own illusions about other people. She is learning what real intimacy is in many ways. She will also be attracted to other people and systems of though that can provide psychological perspective on why people are the way they are. That will help her in her own evolutionary journey- especially as she helps others with the psychological knowledge she has gained.

The Sun is integrated through the sn in Aries- generally what you talked about her getting her act together, becoming a responsible adult. Becoming a mother for example. This is very important as in the past she has allowed herself to become weighed down by being overly sensitive to the opinions and needs of other people and not taking care of herself.

Ari Moshe
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hope101
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 28, 2010, 12:33 PM »

Hello Ari, thank you for that valuable insight as to the ppp and links. i am humbled and excited by how vast the amount of info and deep wisdom is archived on this site. what a gift you are all giving each other!
The next question comes in re to the sun square the nodes. That seems pretty heavy as far as i read about skipped steps and the like. i am planning on getting a lot more educated in the EA basics. In the meantime,I searched this aspect and found this post re the sun square nodes:

"That final straw would occur in the current life that would result in skipped steps not only in the current life, but those to come until these dynamics equaling skipped steps is resolved. On the other hand, again, if the Soul chooses to make the choices to deal with those pre-existing issues in the current life that 'final straw' will allow for a resolution of those issues and, thus, no skipped steps: relative to those issues." can you clarify??

Please forgive my ignorance and naivety.
 again, i am an infant novice but long to study more in depth and plan to do so. With the chart given, Sun cancer 10 house, nodal axis and signs do you have any feedback regarding the "preexisitng issues" that may be indicated in these placements, as to the sun square nodes dynamic. to be honest, it is actully MY natal chart we are looking at and i am really rather averse to repeating any more karmic patterns than i absolutely have to!!lol!
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Wendy
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 28, 2010, 08:03 PM »

Hi Hope,

Blessings and welcome to the EA Forum.

Thanks for your post.  There are so many levels of understanding EA that I am always learning more and more, so I appreciate your questions, which in turn brings on up for me, so I hope (no pun intended, but I like it) it's okay to use your post to ask?

Ari is a Pluto 7 degrees and NN at 14 signature considered Pluto on the NN?  I would like so, but its a bit of a large orb. 

Thanks,
Wendy
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ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 28, 2010, 08:07 PM »

Hi Hope, we aren't interpreting charts for the sake of self help. If you read the "IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST VISIT..." thread you will see that this isn't about therapy- though of course a lot of healing happens here.

About the Sun squaring the nodes- the two threads about the Sun squaring the nodes offer a lot of clarification. The most recent one:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,256.0.html

And this one which is quite comprehensive. I'm reviewing it now myself:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,172.0.html

Ari Moshe




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ari moshe
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 28, 2010, 08:23 PM »

Hi Wendy,

Quote
Ari is a Pluto 7 degrees and NN at 14 signature considered Pluto on the NN?  I would like so, but its a bit of a large orb.   

Stephan once collected a whole bunch of teachings about orbs from the archives. This is the thread he posted: http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,82.0.html

Quote
general orbs:
  conjunction   10 degrees
  opposition   10 degrees
  quincunx   5 degrees
  quintile   3 degrees
  sesquiquadrate   5 degrees
  semi-sexitile   3 degrees
  semi-square   3 degrees
  septile   2 degrees
  sextile   4 degrees
  square   10 degrees
  trine   10 degrees
[13-Jul-1999]
 

And this would explain the difference between a wide orb and a tight orb.

Quote
The orbs simply correlate to how long a person has been working on any given issue, i.e. ten degree relative to a square would mean that this would be the first lifetime for a person to work on whatever the two planets/archetypes/dynamics are.  Conversely, for example, those same two planets could be in a 6 degree orb relative to the square, and this then suggests, in evolutionary terms, that the person has already been working on those evolutionary issues prior to the current life for at least several lifetimes.  As such it is not ‘new’ to the person, there would be previous experience, and thus the orientation, and behavior, would be different than the person who had the ten degree orb.
[March 22 2002]

Ari Moshe
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Steve
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 28, 2010, 08:39 PM »

Hi Wendy

Ari is a Pluto 7 degrees and NN at 14 signature considered Pluto on the NN?  I would like so, but its a bit of a large orb.  

To add a little to what Ari wrote, in EA aspects are considered as parts of phases, as evolutionary gates or markers to be specific.  Thus we work with wider orbs because the orb is seen as part of the evolutionary transition.   The closer the aspect is to exact, the stronger the effects will be felt (in most cases) although as always there are exceptions.   There are people who are sensitive enough that they feel an upcoming Pluto (for example) transit at 12 or 13 degrees away, while others will be almost in exact aspect and tell you they don't feel much going on.

If you aren't familiar with the cycle of phases and aspects, they are a really important part of EA and you are encouraged to put time into learning about them.  They are covered in Pluto Vol 2, and in more depth in the School's DVD course.  We also have a DVD workshop called Cycles of Becoming that is 3+ hours on phases and aspects that is really excellent.

The reason I am bringing this up is if you understand the principles of phases, and of aspects existing within phases, you will understand why EA uses orbs that are wider than many traditional astrologies do.  For example, there are 4 types of squares, (crescent, first quarter, disseminating, and last quarter). The meaning of each of those types of square is quite different.  Thus its necessary to understand the archetypes of the phases to truly be able to interpret the meaning of a square.
Steve
« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2010, 09:23 AM by Steve » Logged

Wendy
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 29, 2010, 02:56 AM »

Thanks Steve and Ari.  Your responses answer my question very clearly.  My intention is to study the phases and get them memorized (now I have to refer to the book, etc.).  I don't even recall what my own phasal aspects are, so I know this is my next EA growth area to integrate. 

Peace,
Wendy
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hope101
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 29, 2010, 11:03 AM »

Ari,
i wasnt seeking therapy and i apologise if i came accross that way. i only meant to understand the concept of skipped steps as it related to my chart. i probobly sent too much bio info etc. i will continue to study the basics of EA on my own and look forward to posting less personal ??'s in the future!
With gratitude,
Namaste!
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hope101
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 29, 2010, 11:06 AM »

Steve and Wendy,
Thank you for your ?'s and answer...very helpful!
Blessings!
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Steve
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 29, 2010, 01:26 PM »

Hi Hope

i wasnt seeking therapy and i apologise if i came accross that way. i only meant to understand the concept of skipped steps as it related to my chart. i probobly sent too much bio info etc. i will continue to study the basics of EA on my own and look forward to posting less personal ??'s in the future!

Your post was not inherently too personal, and there is some discussion we can have around it that might be of value to others.

Since you cam here to learn, my suggestion is you start the discussion by writing out conclusions you've reached by yourself as your current answers to the questions you asked.  For example, you mentioned finding very deep irony.  You could write about what you are seeing in this chart as very deep irony, and why.  And so forth.  Then people might comment on your conclusions.

That is very different than just asking others to explain "what does this mean".  We realize it takes a lot of courage to come out on a board like this as a beginner and put your insights out there.  It's quite common to feel shy and maybe even dumb.  But if you are willing to risk that, that is how you will really learn.  Also, when you write about something you saw in the chart, list the astrological configuration that led you to conclude that - what is the root of the deep irony as you see it, as example.

And, welcome to our site.
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 29, 2010, 03:28 PM »

Hi Hope,

Quote
Ari,
i wasnt seeking therapy and i apologise if i came accross that way. i only meant to understand the concept of skipped steps as it related to my chart. i probobly sent too much bio info etc. i will continue to study the basics of EA on my own and look forward to posting less personal ??'s in the future

I want to clarify that I wasn't trying to imply that your questions are invalid. You did however communicate, after being initially dishonest, that this is in fact your chart. While you clearly have a desire to learn ea, you also wanted someone to interpret your chart for you:

Quote
With the chart given, Sun cancer 10 house, nodal axis and signs do you have any feedback regarding the "preexisitng issues" that may be indicated in these placements, as to the sun square nodes dynamic. to be honest, it is actully MY natal chart we are looking at and i am really rather averse to repeating any more karmic patterns than i absolutely have 

So I was just neutrally speaking to that statement. I really appreciate the approach Steve suggested. I would love to learn via another chart example, though I'm still reading through the old one with Upasika (link above), which you might want to do to (to the best that you can follow).
 
And also- for any of us to learn, the bio IS important as it allows us to estimate the evolutionary state of the soul.
Ari Moshe
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hope101
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 29, 2010, 07:35 PM »

Steve and Ari,
Thank you for your gracious corrections and clarifications. i will make sure i have the basics of these concepts before attempting to ask questions from now on. Until that time comes i will read and be quiet:))
 as for the statement that i was dishonest about the chart being mine, i would rather it be seen that i was veiling that fact until it seemed neccessary to reveal. it was not my intention to lie or misrepresent but withhold. it is obvious to me that the objectivity i tried to manifest (unsuccessfully) and that seems required in the study of astrology does not apply as well (for me) in the study of one's own chart, at least in my case. and again my level of ignorance of EA, and need for an actual reading:))which obviously needs to be found elsewhere, added to the problem!!
you all seem like genuine, kind and well meaning folks and i recognise the intrinsic value of this knowledge when applied....sorry for the unintended distraction~carry on and all Blessings on your work! thank you!~~Hope
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ari moshe
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 29, 2010, 08:19 PM »

Oh hope, I'm so sorry for making that assumption. I understand what your intent was, thank you for clarifying that.
Ari Moshe
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