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Author Topic: Virgo - Understanding the Whole Archetype and its Specific Correlations  (Read 11421 times)
Linda
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« on: Aug 15, 2010, 01:13 AM »

We'll begin with the Virgo archetype.


The main concept of this thread is to grasp and understand the WHOLE archetype of Virgo along the lines that Deva suggested below (Part I), followed by summarizing the Specific Correlations of the archetype (Part II).  New threads will commence for Libra, Scorpio, Sag.....etc. in due course. Let's share, compare and discuss our findings with each other, with everyone welcome to join in at any time.


Part I:  Understanding the Whole Virgo archetype


Quote by Deva:  "My advice would be to grasp the whole of what is being learned first - not all of the individual facts/details (intuitively work with what you are studying.....) and allow all the individual parts/facts to naturally come together.  For example - if you are studying the archetypes - grasp what the whole archetype is about first - i.e. Capricorn is about the structure of consciousness, and then go into the specific correlations of that archetype."


Part II:   Specific Correlations of the Virgo archetype



Please attempt a summary of all or any of the following -


1.   Possible ways the archetype may have been wounded in past lives due to patriarchal conditioning (eg historical correlations).

2.   Possible ways the archetype may have been carried over into the present life (behavioural patterns, distortion, resistance, trauma, shock, etc.).

3.   An outline of the archetype in its empowered form, as an expression of the Natural Law of giving, sharing and inclusion.

4.   Comparison of the archetype in the Consensus / Individuated / Spiritual stages.

5.   How the archetype manifests on Individual and Collective levels (eg nations).

6.   Physiological associations with the archetype.  "Why" does any particular physiology/health issue etc correlate to the archetype.

7.   How to assist clients with difficult issues by improving/evolving that area.

8.   To discuss sample charts with a prominent Virgo archetype.

9.   Sign polarity catch phrases, eg Virgo/Pisces - "practical idealism."

10.  An outline of Venus in Virgo.

11.  An outline of Mars in Virgo.

12.  Other correlations.


« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 04:28 PM by Linda » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 17, 2010, 11:41 PM »

My understanding of the whole Virgo archetype...

My intuitive understanding of this archetype is that due to past imperfections, impurities and egocentricity, the Soul now desires improvement and purification in preparation for the social-universal sphere.  At this stage the ego is necessarily humiliated and the individual becomes self-effacing.  Crisis and guilt lead to self-analysis and atonement which lead to humility, forgiveness and service to others.
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_will
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 18, 2010, 11:55 AM »

Cool idea for a thread.

Some behaviors/correlations that I have noticed with the Virgo archetype:

Always making lists, adding to lists, trying to finish everything on the list, never feeling complete since there is always something on the stupid list...or they do finish the list and realize that none of it was what they needed to do for themselves, so they start a new list.  Wash, rinse, repeat....(masochism)

Strong sense of need to be of service to others, but perhaps never following through on the impulse because Virgo does not feeling good or ready enough (there's the drive toward perfection)

Compelling need to atone and make right, particularly as a result of some crisis that has arisen.

Constantly taking in information from the environment and analyzing internally - "in their heads", so to speak.  From an evolutionary perspective, needs to learn discernment regarding the information that is taken in - to be able to discriminate what is pertinent to their reality and discard that which is not.

Will


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Linda
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 18, 2010, 02:26 PM »

Hi Will,

It's interesting reading what you have noticed with the Virgo archetype.  I like how you have described the high proportion of movement or energy in the physical world, and the strong sense of "activity" due to the Mercurial rulership. 

There is a lot going on internally with this archetype, always making corrections, always trying to improve what is imperfect through that constant analysis "in their heads."  It seems to me that the Virgo archetype sifts through a lot of raw material in order to find the perfection that it is seeking, discarding along the way what is not pertinent to their reality.  It's a long and tedious journey toward purification.

So what is the whole Virgo archetype principally about - before going into the correlations - do you think?
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Elen
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 18, 2010, 03:23 PM »

Hi All,

Just wanted to post my first thoughts re: the Virgo Archetype. As I see and understand it, the primary thing that has to be understood about the Virgo Archetype is the biblical Garden of Eden myth and the guilt that that has fostered in the human psyche.  The myth states that we are inherently bad and because of that, we had to be punished by God and that that continues to be true.  Thus, deeply embedded in our psyches is man-made guilt (as opposed to natural guilt - which occurs when we in fact do violate natural law). 

I will post more soon.  gotta go.

Ellne
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Linda
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 18, 2010, 04:49 PM »

Ellen,

Thanks for your input and for this opportunity to explore the Virgo archetype.


As I see and understand it, the primary thing that has to be understood about the Virgo Archetype is the biblical Garden of Eden myth and the guilt that that has fostered in the human psyche. 

Guilt

The biblical Garden of Eden myth, and other biblical stories, were derived from the earliest literate civilization, the Sumerians, over 5,500 years ago.  We're moving out of the Piscean Age (approximately 2,150 years long) and it's Virgo sub-age (approximately 1,000 years ago).

The biblical Garden of Eden myth conditioned us to belief in the separation of the spirit from the flesh.  Eve symbolized sin and the flesh, and Adam symbolized the saint. 

This man-made religious belief system correlates to the inequality of the sexes and sadomasochism in relationships.  Also:  duality, inferiority, victimization, persecution, nun, virgin. 

Men also hold the distortion of this archetype within their psyche - we've all experienced being both sexes in past lives - which manifests in the present life.


Quote
The myth states that we are inherently bad and because of that, we had to be punished by God and that that continues to be true.


Punishment

We unconsciously carried the belief that God was perfect and was judging us.  This correlates to inherent feelings of shame, inadequacy, lack, and having to atone for our sins in various ways, such as being a slave/servant (martyr) to others. 

The distorted Virgo archetype imposes fault, blame and condemnation onto others (as well as onto itself), as it projects its critical assessments onto the environment.


Quote
Thus, deeply embedded in our psyches is man-made guilt (as opposed to natural guilt - which occurs when we in fact do violate natural law). 


Man-made guilt v Natural guilt

The questions that arise:   

How does the Virgo archetype express through Natural Law without the distortions?

In what ways could the Virgo archetype violate Natural Law?
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Elen
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 18, 2010, 05:34 PM »

Hi Linda,

Great response.  Just wanted to add one more thing re: Virgo distortion and that is the manifestation of crisis that, I think, can be attributed back to the garden of eden myth and the embedded belief that we are bad, that spirit and flesh are separate.  This belief would lead us to try to be perfect (impossible; what "perfect" really means is living up to some man-made construct about proper behavior, etc. and then judging oneself and others based on that [what you were also saying]), thus we would always  be failing in life in comparison to the standard.  This in itself would lead to crisis, I would think, because one is so far off from what is real and true (ie, living and being who one actually is).  So I think crisis could be a means of clueing us in to this false standard that we are holding ourselves to and the resultant artificial living that we are doing.  Crisis would also arise from the man-made guilt that we experience chronically as a result of this cultural myth; because we can never trust our basic natures, we must always question our every action and thought, and more than that, condemning these as sinful/bad.  With no inner peace, crisis would manifest.  Finally, crisis would result due to the guilt that is carried in our psyches.  This guilt leads to the sado-masochistic dynamic.  Thus crisis would manifest in our relationships with others.  Again, all this being traced back to the Garden of Eden myth as the overarching archetype for Virgo.

These, of course, are just my thoughts about this - me working out the correlations from that one archetype.  If what I have written is in error, I am hopeful that someone who knows more will step in and correct this.


In addition to your question, Linda, about how Virgo would manifest when in line with natural law, I am wondering if there are other primary archetypes for Virgo that could/should be considered.  I will try to read some more this weekend.

Thanks again for this thread.

Peace,
Ellen
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Linda
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 18, 2010, 05:56 PM »

Ellen,

You are letting the individual facts and details come together so well and so naturally, as a result of grasping what the whole Virgo archetype means first. 

It is interesting how one manifestation leads to another and then to another. 

The original (?) distortion came from the Garden of Eden myth - and that lead to the belief that we are bad - that we deserve punishment - to efforts in trying to become 'perfect' (which is a distortion in itself) - and then to crisis due to the fact that we are not perfect, and never can be.

Crisis comes from the belief that we will never be able to live up to those high standards of perfection - that we are "separate" from God and therefore separate from "inner peace" - which leads to all that mental activity, movement (practical service) and inner striving all over again.

The Myth can be played out through our relationships.  The sadist taking on the role of God (or Adam), and the masochist taking on the role of the "imperfect" one (or Eve).  The sadomasochistic dynamic could mean that the distorted energies have reached absolute crisis point, causing the individual to lash out (sadist) at a partner/others who believes he/she always deserves punishment (masochist) because they feel so bad about themselves.  A vicious loop.

What positive change would such crises lead to?  An effort to improve oneself.  But could that also lead back to the distorted embedded unconscious pattern?  And what is the purpose of this repeating cycle, over and over again?  Is the individual able to let go in time, and find balance through the Pisces polarity?

There must come a time when these outmoded patterns are exhausted, and are able to be metamorphosed into the natural, undistorted relationship with God and everything, as reflected in Natural Law.
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Elen
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 18, 2010, 09:34 PM »

What positive change would such crises lead to?  An effort to improve oneself.  But could that also lead back to the distorted embedded unconscious pattern?  And what is the purpose of this repeating cycle, over and over again?  Is the individual able to let go in time, and find balance through the Pisces polarity?

I am thinking that there are 2 sources of crisis.  1) crisis that comes about as a result of the distortions that arise from the garden of eden myth.  This could potentially be an endless cycle until one is completely warn down by it, perhaps leading to a 12th house type of surrender response and a need to just take a leap into the abyss.....?  I am not sure that that is the purpose of it, but it does seem that it would be an inevitable conclusion to it...  I could also see how the Soul COULD choose it intentionally to bring about this surrender...... and this ultimately could lead to a letting go of this distortion once and for all  2) natural crisis, ie, crisis that comes about as a natural consequence of the purification process that comes about through evolutionary growth (a necessary part of it?).  I had posted a quote from one of John of the Cross' essays in which he talks about the crisis that spiritual Souls go through when they feel themselves to be rotten to the core.  His quote was to help spiritual guides understand and recognize this as part of the spiritual development of the Soul.  As I understand it, it is about having reached a greater level of discernment about one's own impurities that have accumulated over many lifetimes - actually seeing/being aware of the impurities (impurities that have always been there but unseen) and seeing them for the first time.  And thus coming to feel oneself to be rotten to the core.  But this is just a part of the journey.  For purification to occur, the impurities have to be seen (all of this is my take on what he wrote...)  All for now... I must go to bed..

There must come a time when these outmoded patterns are exhausted, and are able to be metamorphosed into the natural, undistorted relationship with God and everything, as reflected in Natural Law.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 18, 2010, 10:32 PM »

Hi all,

Here's my exploration of the whole Virgo archetype:
Virgo symbolizes the impulse of each soul to become as self accurate as possible. In so doing, what's happening? It is not reaching a state of perfection that is attained by the any external behavior once or ever. The awareness reached is nothing other than the willing realization of a soul that it is playing a necessary role in the scheme of the totality of life. This awareness trumps the need to reach a state of perfection, as it keeps a soul in a state of humilty, surrender, and forgiveness. Through Virgo, a soul develops devotion to a constant bettering of it's own self awareness.

Something really interesting to note about the garden of eden myth:
Before the "sin" in chapter 3, the bible says at the end of Chapter 2, "They were naked and were not ashamed." Then the serpent comes on the scene...
Chapter 3 tells the story of the sin and the subsequent curse. Immediately after that, in the beginning of chapter 4, the bible says something that isn't very noticeable in the English language.
"And Adam KNEW Eve his Wife" Hebrew: "Adum YADAH et chava ishto" The word "knew" which is of course a sexual knowing in this context, has the Hebrew root "YaDaH". In the previous chapter, they ate from the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, the etz HADA'AT. The tree of knowledge in chapter 3 and the biblical knowing in chapter 4 share the same hebrew word for knowledge "YaDaH"...

This to me is an amazing clue in to the nature of the distortion. Note also the natural square between Sag and Virgo. Guilt about natural law. In this state of consciousness, a soul perceives itself to be innately flawed and actually deserving of constant suffering based on it's perceived nature as a sinner. The body itself is a sin. In chapter 3, immediately after eating the fruit, adam and eve covered up their nakedness with fig leaves. Suddenly they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad and they had "knowledge". Now sexuality was an act of "knowing". Now the body was something to be covered up. The natural isness of life was no longer experienced as they began to impose upon natural law all these "ideas" based on a complete distortion.

God Bless,
Ari Moshe



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Linda
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 19, 2010, 03:25 AM »

I had posted a quote from one of John of the Cross' essays in which he talks about the crisis that spiritual Souls go through when they feel themselves to be rotten to the core.  His quote was to help spiritual guides understand and recognize this as part of the spiritual development of the Soul.

Hi Ellen,

'The crisis that spiritual Souls go through when they feel themselves to be rotten to the core' describes the Virgo archetype or Virgoan process quite well at a core level.  The impurities, as you say, have in fact accumulated over many lifetimes.  In a Virgoan sense, it then becomes absolutely necessary that these impurities are purged.
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_will
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 19, 2010, 10:51 AM »

So what is the whole Virgo archetype principally about - before going into the correlations - do you think?

From my own intuitive perspective, the Virgo archetype is about being drawn inwardly in order to realize and acknowledge that there is a need to be of service outward to something other than the self.  As JWG put it, you're coming out of Leo where the archetype is the sense of being full of oneself, and into Virgo where that fullness gets popped, deflated, humiliated - going from superiority to inferiority.  The Virgo puzzle is now missing some pieces.  So it looks in all sorts of areas trying to fill the void in the effort to finish that puzzle - to make it whole, perfect - like God/Goddess/Creator/Source.  In pursuing those missing pieces though, it has continually missed the mark (sin) since perfection isn't quite possible here on Earth.  But it keeps trying, thinking that the missing puzzle piece is here, or there...in this book, or that one, or even in the form of an apple offered by a snake...and thus we tie back to guilt and the Garden of Eden myth (which others have already discussed here).  Trying to fill the missing pieces through a variety of ways (sometimes delusional) is part of how Virgo learns the lesson of discernment - what fits reality and what does not.  I realize that much of this is paraphrasing JWG, but it resonates with my own intimate familiarity with the Virgo/Mercury/6th House archetype.

Again, referring back to the natural progression of the zodiac, Virgo is the culmination of the subjective, personal aspects of consciousness - preceded by the archetype of "self-fullness" that is Leo, and then subsequently followed by the societal realm of relating to others via Libra.  As a gateway between the subjective and objective realms of consciousness/experience, Virgo then must purge itself of the guilt that has accumulated over years and lifetimes of missing the mark (sin) and operating in a subjective manner for just itself.  It naturally follows (at least in my mind) that learning how to be of benefit to others is how the soul begins to reconcile, to purge, to make right, to atone for the guilt that has accumulated from years and lifetimes of missing the mark (sin) in selfish pursuit of its own perfection.

-Will
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Linda
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 19, 2010, 03:56 PM »

Here's my exploration of the whole Virgo archetype:
Virgo symbolizes the impulse of each soul to become as self accurate as possible. In so doing, what's happening? It is not reaching a state of perfection that is attained by the any external behavior once or ever. The awareness reached is nothing other than the willing realization of a soul that it is playing a necessary role in the scheme of the totality of life. This awareness trumps the need to reach a state of perfection, as it keeps a soul in a state of humilty, surrender, and forgiveness. Through Virgo, a soul develops devotion to a constant bettering of it's own self awareness.


Ari,

I can see your reasoning, that due to the fact that perfection will never be attained, that the soul will be kept in a state of humility, surrender and forgiveness.  What you describe is 'true service,' in that what is undertaken is not necessarily to achieve an outcome, but, as we say, 'the value will be in the effort.'

Quote
.........they ate from the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil........

How interesting that you've looked at all the 'mental' correlations in the Garden of Eden myth, mainly around 'knowledge.'  This is exactly what the Virgo archetype is about.  

Quote
Guilt about natural law.
The natural isness of life was no longer experienced as they began to impose upon natural law all these "ideas" based on a complete distortion.

And in relation to natural law, how that knowledge has become distorted.

Thanks Ari.  There are many others question which we will explore over the next month.  As we go along we will create a Virgo archetype thread that will be a good study tool, a 'service' for others who need it.
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Linda
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 19, 2010, 04:23 PM »

Wil,

Thank you for your excellent intuitive insight into the whole Virgo archetype!

The Virgo puzzle is now missing some pieces.  

The Virgo aspect of the soul KNOWS that it is missing some pieces.

Quote
............So it looks in all sorts of areas trying to fill the void in the effort to finish that puzzle - to make it whole, perfect - like God/Goddess/Creator/Source.

It naturally seeks the balance of the Pisces polarity.
  
Quote
..........it keeps trying, thinking that the missing puzzle piece is here, or there...

Virgo, in its IMperfection, seeks the elusive perfection, by trying to make the puzzle whole, by trying to find the missing pieces.

Quote
...........Trying to fill the missing pieces through a variety of ways (sometimes delusional) is part of how Virgo learns the lesson of discernment - what fits reality and what does not.

Some of these efforts can be DELUSIONAL in nature, which naturally brings in the lesson of discernment.

Quote
It naturally follows (at least in my mind) that learning how to be of benefit to others is how the soul begins to reconcile, to purge, to make right, to atone for the guilt that has accumulated from years and lifetimes of missing the mark (sin) in selfish pursuit of its own perfection.

The focus shifts from 'self' to the 'other.'

Your insights have made it clear how necessary the Virgo transition is.
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Elen
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 19, 2010, 04:34 PM »

So what is the whole Virgo archetype principally about - before going into the correlations - do you think?

From my own intuitive perspective, the Virgo archetype is about being drawn inwardly in order to realize and acknowledge that there is a need to be of service outward to something other than the self.  As JWG put it, you're coming out of Leo where the archetype is the sense of being full of oneself, and into Virgo where that fullness gets popped, deflated, humiliated - going from superiority to inferiority.  The Virgo puzzle is now missing some pieces.  So it looks in all sorts of areas trying to fill the void in the effort to finish that puzzle - to make it whole, perfect - like God/Goddess/Creator/Source.  In pursuing those missing pieces though, it has continually missed the mark (sin) since perfection isn't quite possible here on Earth.  But it keeps trying, thinking that the missing puzzle piece is here, or there...in this book, or that one, or even in the form of an apple offered by a snake...and thus we tie back to guilt and the Garden of Eden myth (which others have already discussed here).  Trying to fill the missing pieces through a variety of ways (sometimes delusional) is part of how Virgo learns the lesson of discernment - what fits reality and what does not.  I realize that much of this is paraphrasing JWG, but it resonates with my own intimate familiarity with the Virgo/Mercury/6th House archetype.

Again, referring back to the natural progression of the zodiac, Virgo is the culmination of the subjective, personal aspects of consciousness - preceded by the archetype of "self-fullness" that is Leo, and then subsequently followed by the societal realm of relating to others via Libra.  As a gateway between the subjective and objective realms of consciousness/experience, Virgo then must purge itself of the guilt that has accumulated over years and lifetimes of missing the mark (sin) and operating in a subjective manner for just itself.  It naturally follows (at least in my mind) that learning how to be of benefit to others is how the soul begins to reconcile, to purge, to make right, to atone for the guilt that has accumulated from years and lifetimes of missing the mark (sin) in selfish pursuit of its own perfection.

-Will

Hi Will,

Thanks for this.  Really insightful re: the Service aspect of the Virgo archetype.  To me, this really helps to understand the Virgo archetype as it is meant to express itself free from man-made distortions.  I especially appreciated this with regard to the whole way of folding in the perfectionist tendencies within this service artchetype; the perfectionist tendency does not have to be just a distorted response to man-made law; it can also be an expression of the natural limitation of the Virgo archetype - what it needs to evolve beyond.

Peace,
Ellen
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