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Author Topic: The Birthchart of Jesus  (Read 1815 times)
Gonzalo
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« on: Aug 19, 2010, 08:29 AM »

Dear Rad and Adina

I am now posting what I am able to see in Jesus birthchart. A big part of this was already posted at the practice chart thread.



Pluto Rx is conjunct Mars Rx in the 9th House Virgo, new phase. South Node in the 11th House Scorpio balsamic conjunct Neptune Rx, ruled by Pluto. North Node is in the 5th House Taurus. Ruler Venus is in the 3th House Pisces. Mercury is stationary/direct in the 2nd House Aquarius squaring the nodal axis.

Pluto has the following aspects: sextile to the South Node and trine the North Node; sextile Neptune; conjunct Mars; and opposed to the stellium of planets in the 3rd House Pisces: Gibbous opposition Uranus, Jupiter, and the Moon, and Full Phase opposition Sun, Saturn, and Venus.

The South Node has the following aspects: Last Quarter sextile Pluto, balsamic conjunct Neptune, Last Quarter semisquare Mars, square Mercury, First Quarter trine Uranus, Jupiter, Moon, Sun, Saturn, Venus.
The North Node has the following aspects: Disseminating trine Pluto, Full Phase opposition Neptune, square Mercury, First Quarter sesquisquare Mars, Last Quarter septile Venus.

North Node ruler Venus has the following aspects: Full Phase opposition Pluto, Last Quarter septile to the North Node, First Quarter Trine the North Node, First Quarter sesquisquare Neptune, Balsamic conjunct Saturn, Gibbous opposition Mars, New Phase conjunct Sun, Balsamic semisextile Mercury.
Mercury, which squares the nodal axis, has also these aspects: First Quarter bi-septile Neptune, Gibbous inconjunct Mars, Balsamic semisextile Venus.

I have kept in mind that this is the birthchart of an incredible and magnificent Soul, and an incredibly evolved Soul. He was not only full of knowledge, but also full of Divine Love. Said this, I think that, given the current time frame, ie. the transition between Pisces Age and Aquarius Age, it is still necessary to reflect on the impact that the teachings of Jesus have had in our evolution. A relevant part of this reflection should deal with what needs to be evolved beyond pertaining to the Pisces Age, including spiritual masochism. It is clear that an important part of what JWG has done through delivering this sacred paradigm called EA, deals with the need to leave behind masochism, including spiritual masochism, as necessary to re-align with natural law. So, we know that Jesus was this magnificent and Divine loving Soul. However, we also know that he was crucified. And that, further, many others along these two millennia have desired to be crucified, literally or symbolically. Given this historical fact, it would be necessary to consider whether this phenomenon has any roots in the teachings and the life of Jesus, who was the supreme example for those having this type of desires.

I apologize if I what I say results in any way offensive to anybody. My intention is based on what I said before, and in my own personal need to gain a deeper understanding. I thank Rad for allowing me to post this analysis and to ask questions about this chart.

Jesus was at the end of the 3rd Stage Spiritual Evolutionary Condition: he was an Avatar. JWG says he was not perfect, not totally evolved, because such condition is not possible on Earth. Yukteswar says, according to Yogananda (chapter 43 of his autobiography), that Jesus had already reached final and total liberation, ie. the definitive merging with the Source, prior to incarnating as Jesus. From my modest point of view, JWG seems to be right. Perhaps both points of view are right, as seen from an out of space-time reality perspective.

This signature indicates past lives crises and trauma, relating to the different type of followers that Jesus attracted. This crises and trauma would be recreated in some way, because Mercury squares the nodal axis, and because the Pluto polarity point and the North Node ruler are ruled by Neptune, which is conjunct the South Node, with Neptune being balsamic to the South Node.

With Pluto in the 9th House Virgo ruling the Neptune/South Node conjunction in the 11th House in Scorpio, Jesus was born with spiritual trauma, originating in past lives experiences of disillusionment: disillusionment about the impact of his own teachings and/or belief systems in society, and their capacity to help people at social level to embrace evolution. It would be disillusionment about societies and groups of people in general, and about belief systems. This Soul would have incarnated in critical periods in human evolution where severe imbalances existed between men and natural law, and would have experienced collective cataclysmic events resulting in the death of whole groups of people (11th House). He would have witnessed the craziness of people in face of this collective events and time frames, and within that craziness, their spiritual distortions. He would have incarnated in the context of polytheist societies, in societies where people would worship idols and demons (Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th House). Also time frames when false prophets with delusive teachings were massively followed. Further, at times and cultures which based their relationship with their “deities” on violence, through sacrifices, including human sacrifices. This practices would be the expression of their belief systems, ie. religions, through which groups of people (11th House) would attempt to purge the own inner feelings of impurity (Neptune in Scorpio, ruled by Pluto in Virgo) by means of creating a delusive sense of purity and ultimate rightness (Neptune in Scorpio) through the illusion (Neptune) that the felt impurity belonged to others (11th House) who had to be detached or excluded (11th House) from the social group in order for the social group to recover its purity and peace: scapegoats. This would generate a religious attitude in some of these groups consisting on pretending to be purer than others (Neptune in Scorpio). These would be societies inwardly defined by inequality, violence and power, including symbolic and religious domination and sexual violence, alienation and sacrifice of personal individuality of people to people in power, societies utterly dominated by power of groups of people or by other societies. They would also be societies where their scapegoats would be minorities carrying the burden of the impurity felt by those in positions of power.

Jesus tried to help these peoples to align with natural law, true teachings, and with the True God, the Source of All Things. He would have acted as a prophet in order to warn these peoples about the existing imbalances and distortions, and the consequences thereof. Because of his inner knowledge, he would have been compulsively compelled by these types of circumstances to do so (Pluto 9th House). Also, he would have had visions of prophetic nature about cataclysmic events which would be the consequence of the existing imbalances, and at the same time, would have past lives memories of historical events of this nature.

Jesus had the capacity to see others at their Soul level, and hence, at the level of their potential. He was defined by the ideals implied at that potential level of Souls (Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th House). At the same time, he would have faced core disillusionments because of people’s failure to actualize that potential, causing that changes that needed to occur in fact did not occur. He would perceive these failures as a manifestation of the struggle between good and evil occurring not only within these societies and on Earth, but in a larger or universal context (9th House Pluto, Neptune in Scorpio).

He would be disillusioned with peoples and further, with belief systems. Why? Because he would have spent lifetimes in which he tried to induce the evolution of social groups and to prevent cataclysmic events, through teaching at the level of beliefs. He would have struggled against all sorts of lies, distorted beliefs, false prophecies, spiritual delusions, etc. as they interfered with the evolution of peoples and with their alignment with natural law. He would have tried to convince and convert through spiritual teachings, and would have experienced a relative failure of all this efforts (Pluto in Virgo, Mars in Virgo), this producing the disillusionment. He would have tried along a series of lifetimes to further purify and refine its own belief system (Pluto in the 9th House being in Virgo, and Rx), to synthesize teachings, and to further align his spiritual understanding with the true nature of things as directly known through relationship with the Source. The type of crises experienced would have caused the Soul to analyze (Virgo) the nature of his beliefs, in order to find out if there was anything wrong in them, which could be the cause of his relative failure in producing the desired changes socially. This would have occurred by means of a necessary withdrawal from social scenarios and immersion in nature (9th House Pluto). Though, at the same time, this Soul would have defined him/herself through the idealistic need to deliver its increasing knowledge in social context (South Node in the 11th House ruled by Pluto in the 9th House in Virgo, Neptune being sextile Pluto).

Neptune being balsamic conjunct the South Node would not only correlate to the spiritual trauma (11th House) but also shows the expansion of consciousness and the level of God realization existing at the end of the 3rd stage spiritual condition. Neptune being ruled by Pluto in the 9th House, indicates the role that metaphysical and spiritual teachings played in promoting such development of consciousness, ie. the importance that teachings and metaphysical/spiritual understanding had for this Soul. This would reinforce the Soul’s desires to share his knowledge with others.

Because of the scapegoat dynamics this Soul has perceived/uncovered in the societies he has tried to help evolve, and the crises in beliefs he/she has undergone leading to deep inner analyses, he would also be learning, even at his evolutionary stage, lessons about discrimination (Virgo). The necessary discrimination would refer to whom to teach and whom not, based on the relativity of his knowledge in relation to the actual reality of different people (the Pluto polarity point in the 3rd House, and the opposition of all the Pisces planets, all ruled by Neptune in the 11th House). His Soul had the capacity and desire to communicate not just “belief systems”, but to induce, through the nature of his words, the expanded awareness that he was tuned into. With the North Node ruler in the 3th House being in the second decanate of Pisces (a Cancer decanate), and being conjunct the Moon, he would desire to teach at a very personal level, ie. a reduced community of close followers which he perceived as being prepared to understand and to embrace the higher reality he talked about and that defined his whole life. This symbols correlate also with desires to have a private life of his own, and his own family (asteroid Magdalene is at 5° Sagittarius, in the 12th House, squaring the Moon; asteroid Maryam is in the 12th House at 14° Sagittarius, squaring Venus: “There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion (…) And the Companion of the Christ is Maryam the Magdalene. The Lord loved Maryam more than all the other Disciples, and he kissed her often on her mouth. The other women saw his love for Maryam, they say to him: Why do thou love her more than all of us?”). However, the unresolved issues concerning the impact of his teachings at social level, and the perceived state of social crisis, would still induce a compulsive desire to try to “rescue” more massive groups of people. And, of course, other more massive groups of people were attracted to this Soul, because of their own expectations for an external savior or Mesiah. I think, too, that this Soul could have been obsessed with his visions, and existing prophecies, concerning the need to “give his life” for salvation of these peoples. This could imply perceiving his mission or role within the cosmic struggle between good and evil through a spiritually masochistic view.

With Mars in New Phase conjunction to Pluto, in the 9th House/Virgo, he spent the first part of his life travelling. These travels would have had the purpose of receiving teachings in order to actualize his inner knowledge, and healing of the crises/trauma (Virgo). Also, a purpose of disseminating his teachings at other places and cultures. He then came back to a perceived center of social evil, where he began delivering his public teachings, and created persecution against him. This persecution would originate, in patriarchal context, because of a compounded effect. There would be a massive resistance to accept the truth contained in his teachings. Truly embracing his teachings would require people making inner changes, then leading to external changes promoted by the new understandings and personal transformation. Each one should be responsible for the circumstances each one would create through progressively implementing these changes. That would be the natural way this should occur. On the other hand, a great number of people not willing to accept responsibility for their own actions would want to rely on an external savior to promote these changes. Thus, they were not willing to consistently support a process of social change. Many people were simultaneously or cyclically attracted and repelled to this Soul and what they perceived implied in his teachings. Hence, some of the same people following his teachings, would later become his persecutors. The social phenomenon created because of the spiritual leadership of this Soul, and its impact at social level, would, at the same time, create insecurity to the existing powers in this society, this serving to further induce the persecution.

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« Last Edit: Nov 24, 2011, 09:58 PM by Gonzalo » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 19, 2010, 08:32 AM »

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The opposition between Pluto in the 9th House and the stellium of Pisces planets in the 3rd House clearly confirms that this Soul was defined by the need to communicate. He was a messenger of God (he is called the Logos, or the Word, in the Gospel of John), who would, when delivering his message, experience the full force of the opinions, beliefs and delusions of others, and who would also experience the impact on others, of his own words: he would have the capacity to view and feel what would or could happen to others individually and collectively, as a perceived consequence of the impact of his words. I think at times he may have experienced fear and anger or rage for all what was being unleashed through his words and his teachings. The rage would be felt against himself and against people in relation with the choices being made. Rage felt against himself would be based on the attribution to himself of the effects produced (the opposition between Pluto and Moon/Sun, the Sun ruling the 9th House, and ruled by Neptune, in turn ruled by Pluto, with Neptune being Balsamic to the South Node). Attributing the effects of his words to himself would induce the compulsive need to review and analyze the nature of the message he was delivering. And anger or rage felt at other people would occur for several reasons. One of them would be not being allowed to remain at his homeland: the theme of “no man is a prophet in his own country”; the early exile based on the consequence of existing prophecies; being him and his family persecuted since he was a child because of the impact of his words (4th House ruler Mars in the 9th House Virgo, inconjunct Mercury and sesquisquare the North Node, Pluto and Moon in opposition from Houses 9th to 3rd).

At times he would have desired and needed to withdraw and remain in silence. However, withdrawal was connected to the causal factor of these dynamics, because it would have the effect of further intensifying the power of his words. I think the skipped steps represented by Mercury relates to this. Mercury squares the Nodes from the 2nd House Aquarius. It also forms a bi-septile with Neptune which is conjunct the South Node, the South Node being the resolution Node of the skipped steps. Mercury rules the 9th House Pluto (intercepted), and rules the 7th House. Mercury is Gibbous inconjunct Mars in Virgo in the 9th House. Further, Mercury rules the North Node of Pluto in the 7th House Gemini, the South Node of Pluto being in the 1st House Sagittarius.

Within this signature, Mercury in Aquarius in the 2nd House re-states that Jesus had a deep and highly evolved knowledge of metaphysical and spiritual nature. He had gained this knowledge through lifetimes of learning from within in the context of relation with Nature, and from spiritual teachers or Gurus in the context of closed communities where secret systems of knowledge were taught. Learning in this way implied a relative seclusion from mundane world. The highly evolved realization and knowledge obtained in this ways naturally created communication problems when dealing with less evolved people in the midst of common society: what to say? how to teach in order to be understood by common people? What shouldn´t be said? Further: what is their real capacity and willingness to understand, versus any idealistic expectations about what they desire to embrace? True teaching/learning can only occur in the context of a relationship, or a community, where ongoing assimilation makes additional feedback possible. Yet, the love Jesus felt was universal (the Pisces stellium in opposition to Pluto, and trine Neptune in the 11th House), and he also had idealized expectations about people. Several passages from the Gospels suggest that Jesus tried to exert discrimination. He also tried to teach his disciples to discriminate: “Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves”. Of course, it should be clear that he taught many things to his disciples that he did not teach massively to common people (however he called among his disciples one who would betray him). At times he asked someone he had healed not to tell anyone about it. Though, the overall effect was clearly the contrary: he attracted thousands of people. Some of his words reflect the dilemma he faced as to what to say, and what not to say: “And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do you speak to them in parables? Jesus answered them, ‘To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” Before being asked why he spoke in parables he had just told the parable of the sower, which contains the answer: he was sowing the seed among thousands of people because some seed would fall in good ground. I would not say most of his known teachings are difficult to understand. Quite the contrary is true, because they are, indeed, the essence of simplicity: “Love God with your whole heart, and with your whole Soul, and with your whole mind and Love your neighbor as yourself”. Or “I desire mercy, not sacrifices”.

Jupiter and the Sun (9th House ruler) are conjunct in Pisces 3rd House, in First Quarter trine to their ruler, Neptune. Mercury is in First Quarter bi-septile to Neptune, and is balsamic to the Pisces Jupiter/Sun. Jupiter/Sun are in opposition to Pluto in the 9th House, which rules the 12th House, and Neptune, that is sextile Pluto.

Using parables, he was trying to communicate in plain though metaphoric language transcendent truths which, if embraced, would produce the necessary re-alignment with God, and a liberation from evil as it manifested at that times (though all of this is still true nowadays): liberation produced by truth (Neptune in the 11th House trine Jupiter and all the Pisces planets in the 3rd House, and sextile Pluto in the 9th House). Speaking in parables was a means not to “throw pearls to the swine” (the same symbols, in relation with Pluto in Virgo). As the Gospel of Phillip says: “The names which are given by the worldly—therein is a great confusion. For their hearts are turned away from the real unto the unreal. And he who hears the word ‘God’ does not think of the real, but rather he is made to think of the unreal. So also with the words ‘the Father’ and ‘the Son’ and ‘the Sacred Spirit’ and ‘the Life’ and ‘the Light’ and ‘the Resurrection’ and ‘the Convocation’ and all the other words—they do not think of the real, but rather they are made to think of the unreal.” And: “The truth, which exists from the origin, is sown everywhere, and the multitude see it being sown—while yet few who see it reap it”. I think that communicating in his type of indirect, allusive language, required from Jesus a constant discrimination (Virgo), overloading his left brain hemisphere to the point of producing confusion for himself as to what words to choose (Mercury being Balsamic to Jupiter and First Quarter to Neptune). At the same time, the continuous awareness of the effects of his words would induce a constant analysis of what he had said before. Relying too much on the existing texts may be misleading. Though, the nature of his words as contained in these texts suggests some confusion. As in the story of the 42 children who were “cursed” by Elisha because they were making jokes at his bald head, and that were killed by two bears coming out of the woods (II Book of Kings). Or, as in the stories contained in the Childhood Gospel of Thomas: “as Jesus was walking through the town with Joseph, one of the children ran up and struck Jesus on the arm. And Jesus said to him: So you shall not finish your journey. And immediately he fell to the ground, and died. And those who saw these wonderful things cried out, saying: Whence is that boy? And they said to Joseph: It is not right for such a boy to be among us. And Joseph went and brought Him. And they said to him: Go away from this place; but if thou must live with us, teach him to pray, and not to blaspheme: our children have been killed. Joseph called Jesus, and reproved Him, saying: Why do you blaspheme? For these people who live here hate us. And Jesus said: I know that these words are not mine, but theirs; but I will hold my tongue for your sake: and let them see to it in their wisdom. And immediately those who were speaking against Jesus became blind.” A confusion these texts can produce relates to the involvement of Jesus personal will in what was happening. Was he only announcing what the foreseen consequences would be for those who had offended him? Or was he causing or at least desiring those consequences? I think the first would be true in all cases. Of course, he would not explain what the causal chain was between their actions and the consequences they faced, because people would not understand that type of knowledge (Mercury 2nd House Aquarius), ie. would produce even more confusion, because the necessary explanation would be based on secret knowledge, different from existing belief systems at that time and place. Though, because of the compulsive need I think Jesus had to analyze the nature of his words in light of their perceived consequences, I am not sure whether he got confused or experienced self-doubt (Virgo) about his personal involvement or desires in relation to those announced consequences. As when he says: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the Earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.” “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three". If we agree that the essence of his message was universal love, it should be clear that he did not desire to bring division between people. He “knew” that a consequence of his teachings would be all type of conflicts between people, but such consequence would be relative to individual or collective responses thereof, ie. personal choices of others. However, how many people did in fact believe that Jesus had come to bring war, meaning he wanted war?

Jesus foresaw (9th House Pluto) all that was being set in motion because of his teachings, including all the divisions, persecutions and jihads that have occurred for centuries “on behalf of his name”, some of them being necessary, other being totally arbitrary. And that this was one reason why he continued to experience a sense of futility (Virgo), and a deep pain caused by the fundamental contradiction between the nature of what he meant to teach and how it would be acted upon. And I would say that the symbols in his birthchart at least suggest that he experienced some type of guilt and a consequent need to atone for that guilt (Saturn in Pisces, the 10th House ruler in Pisces conjunct Saturn Capricorn in the 2nd House, Pluto in Virgo, Mars in Virgo, etc.). What type of guilt was it? I think it was acquired guilt, based on the direct or implicit projections of others on him, consisting on the misunderstanding of his words that would occur in millions of people during centuries.

As JWG said, referring to the Souls in the Third sub-stage of the Spiritual Evolutionary Condition: “These Souls can also attract to themselves others who project onto them all manner of judgments, projection of motives, intentions, of ‘who they really are’, and wholesale persecution. The reason this occurs is because the very nature of these Souls is fundamentally pure, and full of the inner Light of the Source. As a result, their own inner light has the effect of ‘exposing’ the impurities in others, of the actual reality of others, versus the persona created by others; of others actual intentions and motives for anything. Accordingly, those who do this kind of projection and so on feel threatened by these types of Souls, for they know they themselves are fundamentally dishonest, and that they are invested in having others believe in the persona they are creating to hide their actual reality/agendas. Feeling threatened thus causes these types of people to manifest this type of behavior (projections) with these Souls.”

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« Last Edit: Nov 24, 2011, 09:59 PM by Gonzalo » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 19, 2010, 08:35 AM »

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Mercury in the 2nd House Aquarius squaring the nodal axis, ruling the 7th House cusp, would also symbolize the unresolved trauma born with related to the massive intake of the opinions and points of view of many people. Further, it would represent Jesus attracting one disciple who would betray him. This disciple intended to promote political revolution to liberate (Aquarius) the jews from the rule of Rome: through war. He was the disciple in charge of the money of the community (Mercury in the 2nd House Aquarius).

Given that asteroid Lucifer -and planet Orcus- are conjunct the North Node of Pluto, which is in the 7th House in Gemini, ruled by Mercury, the experience of being tempted by evil would have been connected to the skipped steps represented by this Mercury. “if you are the Son of God … why don’t you do this and that?”. The temptation would be using his special gifts or knowledge (2nd House Mercury Aquarius) in order to accomplish his mission, securing the strength of his leadership by holding mundane, material ie. egocentric power (5th House North Node Taurus) or through the power of conviction created by miracles (11th House South Node in Scorpio, conjunct Neptune). Falling in these temptations would have implied doubting the power of God operating within Creation through the free choices of men (ie. the evolutionary process of elimination of separating desires), and hence, a need to override free will by creating external manifestations or proofs of that power. This is the reason why I think the miracles Jesus made were not intended to produce a spectacular effect, but were rather based solely on love. When Lazarus was resurrected, he said: “Father, I thank You for hearing me. I know You always hear me, but I said it so that the crowd may know that You have sent me”. What I understand from this words is that the miracle was not made for people to believe, but that the words of Jesus, ie. “Father, I thank You for hearing me” were said for people to know that Jesus had acted according to the will of God. By itself, the miracle was made by Jesus because he loved Lazarus, and this love was the reason why he asked God permission to resurrect him. However, Jesus did sometimes get confused about the reason for these miracles. “You ask for signs, but you will be given only one sign, the sign of Jonah and the whale”. Perhaps I am being quite repetitive in this analysis, the fact is that what I am trying to point at is quite paradoxical, because there exists a constant interface between different levels of how reality is understood: a deep level corresponding to the understanding Jesus had about reality, which, however, he needed to communicate at a level of understanding much more linear. This more linear level, interpreted from the point of view defined by belief systems of general people, determined a distortion of what Jesus was trying to say. In reality it was not that, when Jesus resurrected, people had finally had a “definitive proof” about the nature of Jesus. Instead, his resurrection implied a complete inner collapse, at least potential, of all their mental constructions/projections, including the necessity of such type of external proof (Pluto opposition to the 3rd House Pisces planets). Thus, resurrection of Jesus was not an egocentric decision to prove anything, but a manifestation, ie. an effect, of spiritual natural laws which had been operating all the time through the whole life of Jesus (Pluto 9th House ruling Neptune in Scorpio conjunct South Node).

At the same time, Pluto in Virgo, opposed to the Pisces planets, with Pluto ruling Neptune in the 11th House, and the 12th House cusp in Scorpio, would correlate to the capacity and the desire to osmose the karma of others. These others would be, at Jesus evolutionary condition, many others (Neptune in the 11th House, Scorpio on the 12th House cusp-all humanity?). How would this osmosis of karma operate? On one level, it operated by taking on all the projections, assuming all the misunderstandings and all the violence against him. At this level, this operated quite similar to a scapegoat, ie. a known religious dynamic of those times. Further, because he would not give back all this violence, ie. putting the other cheek, this would create the possibility of self-doubt on the persecutors. And then, through complete absorption in the Source, all the negativity contained in the energy of such projections and violence would be dissolved. At same time, he would be the last true scapegoat, because his innocence was finally revealed to his persecutors, thus revealing the implicit lie contained in this religious (social) mechanism.

Given the above, one thing I think Jesus needed to do before dying was to finally liberate of all that guilt and karma (of others) based on projections (Neptune/South Node conjunction in the 11th, ruled by Pluto; Pluto/Virgo opposition to Uranus/Pisces), by correctly attributing all misunderstandings to where they belonged: other people. Mercury applies to the South Node. The final resolution of the skipped steps dynamics occurred when Jesus liberated from the osmosed negativity from thousands or millions of people (Neptune/South Node conjunction in Scorpio in the 11th House), discriminating (Virgo Pluto) between the inherent natural truth (9th House Pluto) defining his Soul and his life, and the burden of all the accumulated projections. This was necessary from the point of view of the natural truth contained in this Soul: the discrimination between truth and those projections, and the consequence of those projections-acquired guilt, self-doubt and frustration (Pluto in the 9th House Virgo). In so doing, Jesus willfully embraced (5th House North Node) the relativity of truth (3rd House Pluto polarity point, 3rd House North Node ruler) without feeling contaminated with the collective denial of his nature. Thus, being in the world (maya), though not belonging to the world. Jesus was at the end of the 3rd sub-stage of the spiritual evolutionary condition. JWG says about the 3rd sub-stage of the spiritual evolutionary condition: “At this point in the evolution of the Soul, all subsequent evolution through this final subdivision will be focused on the elimination of any separating desires that the Soul still has”. In Jesus birthchart Pluto in the 9th House, and Mars in the 9th House. Mars and Pluto correlate with the nature of the separating desires of the Soul. Further, Sagittarius is on the 1st House cusp. This would imply that the residual separating desires Jesus could have referred to the need to believe something. This need of course was of emotional nature (Pluto in the 9th House, 4th House ruler in the 9th House). Embracing the relativity of truth (3rd House Pluto polarity point) implied completely surrendering to the Source (Pluto polarity point in Pisces), and thus, liberating from the need to believe (also, Uranus is new phase conjunct Jupiter in Pisces 3rd House). As Rad has said, in the end “there is nothing to believe”.

Before Jesus died, my feeling is that he in fact experienced confusion and, because of the existing prophecies and the belief systems defining that society/culture and epoch, and aspects of his own belief systems, he believed that some type of salvation of humanity would take place by operation of the mechanism called sacrifice.

He had said: “I desire mercy, not sacrifice”. Is there a contradiction between what he had said and the way he interpreted being crucified?

Would this be a necessary “sacrifice” from God’s point of view? To answer this question would need to decide about the dimension and extent of this Soul’s spiritual masochism, or belief system, as seen from the point of view of natural law and/or the will of God.

I have reviewed EA material, and the JWG references I found pertaining to this topic are as follows:

“The ultimate masochist is Jesus Christ, let’s face it. Because he was aware of his own betrayal prior to its happening and he allowed it to happen. This is called a masochist act”.
Though, JWG then says: “It was fated and determined by God that all this happened”
“Question (at the old message board): How does the religious masochism of Christianity fit in? Answer: “the origin of this is Jesus himself ... 'father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

“Because Jesus manifested in the patriarchal times, at the beginning of the Pisces Age whose sub-age is Virgo, which we are still in by the way, this then required the phenomenon of martyr's (…)True martyr's are always PROJECTED UPON by those who hold the delusions of self interest and exclusion and are 'set-up' for tremendous trials of suffering so as to be seen progressively for the purity that actually exists in their hearts and souls .. again, typically, after the fact of some event(s) caused by the projections themselves”.

“Jesus was a pure masochist .. nothing to do with sadism .. and such pure masochist, from a spiritual point of view if such a soul has evolved to the higher spiritual states, serves the role, in patriarchal times, of the martyr .. a pure martry whose function is to induce the 'realizations of truth' thru the act of being a martyr.. where these realizations of truth occur after the fact of martyring a true martyr”.
I also recall JWG says somewhere (I couldn’t find this reference now) something like Jesus was a masochist because he did not feel prepared to face the destiny God intended for him, as reflected in some of his final words before dying: “Father, if possible take this cup away from me” and “Father, why have you abandoned me?”

From the above it seems clear that Jesus was spiritually masochist.

So, the question would be: was Jesus death in the way it occurred necessary from God’s point of view? Or was it also a consequence of spiritual masochism? Or, in other words, was it necessary because of the way effects unleashed, but not because it were a fundamental piece of the plan of God? While at the same time, given conditioning belief systems and/or spiritual masochism, it was interpreted by Jesus as necessary from God’s point of view?

My tentative answer is this:
Jesus was not crucified by God. He was crucified by some people living at that time, because of their own decisions, based on their projections and distortions. Jesus was consistent with his mission and his teachings and in the end decided not to run away from his persecutors. Other times before in his lifetime he had indeed run away or evaded his persecutors because “his time had not come”. It is possible, because of spiritual masochism, and of the existing prophecies at that time, that Jesus himself could believe that God’s plan was to have him killed this way; though, this was not necessary and was just a consequence of the above. My personal feeling is that, if it had been God’s plan to have Jesus crucified, ie. as something necessary for spiritual salvation or advancement of humanity, this plan would have been designed against natural law. The same may apply to some of Jesus disciples who suffered similar deaths as martyrs.

Doesn’t the idea of a martyr serving to expand the consciousness of people martyring the martyr seem unnatural?

The effect of an expanded consciousness of those martyring the martyr after can occur, ie. “it seems he really was the Son of God”, though, that doesn’t mean that martyring the martyr was necessary for such realizations to occur. It doesn´t mean either that that type of realizations will occur necessarily. For Nero the emperor and others it was an amusement.

If God’s plan required a martyr like Jesus, it would have also required the whole group of people taking that decision to martyrize. Those individual choices were “free” choices, predictable as they may have been though free in the end. The same can be said of Judas betrayal: if his choice was fated, then it was not free. If it was not free, then why should he create any karma for that choice (JWG has referred to the karmic consequences of Judas betrayal)?

“The origin of this (religious masochism of Christianity) is Jesus himself ... 'father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

If they had not known what they did, as Jesus thought then, they would have not been free to do it. In that case, what happened would have been caused by other will, ie. the will of God. On the contrary, if they knew what they were doing, ie. that they were killing an innocent man, then the martyr situation was not wanted by God, but was a consequence of free human decisions which could have been different.

In any case, “knowing what they were doing” would have been relative to their own type of understanding, mental constructions, believe systems. Perhaps they did not know they were killing an individual that was fully enlightened and God realized. I guess they could know, however, that they were killing an innocent man.

Thank you so much for your feedback on the above.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 19, 2010, 11:52 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

 I will try to read through all that you wrote tomorrow. God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 20, 2010, 11:33 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

 Thank you so much for posting the chart of Jesus, and for all of your thoughts concerning his life with all the EA symbols involved that you have used. It was truly wonderful for me to read though it. However, below are some thoughts in relation to the ending part of what you wrote.

************************************************************************

I also recall JWG says somewhere (I couldn’t find this reference now) something like Jesus was a masochist because he did not feel prepared to face the destiny God intended for him, as reflected in some of his final words before dying: “Father, if possible take this cup away from me” and “Father, why have you abandoned me?”

***************************************************************************

JWG said that Jesus made the inner decision to cooperate with the mission that he was given by God, and the destiny of that mission. His own relative imperfection was reflected as he was dying on the Cross as reflected in those words: "Father, take this cup from me". And the ongoing influence of Evil, that dogged Jesus his whole life, which is why he said so many times "Satan, get behind me", was that which caused his to say the words "Father, why have you abandoned me", when in fact there was no such abandonment.

************************************************************************

From the above it seems clear that Jesus was spiritually masochist.

So, the question would be: was Jesus death in the way it occurred necessary from God’s point of view? Or was it also a consequence of spiritual masochism? Or, in other words, was it necessary because of the way effects unleashed, but not because it were a fundamental piece of the plan of God? While at the same time, given conditioning belief systems and/or spiritual masochism, it was interpreted by Jesus as necessary from God’s point of view?

**************************************************************************

It was necessary from God's point of view because humanity in general, via the Natural Law of free choice, had gotten so far away from Natural Law. Thus, it was this fact that created the necessity for Jesus to manifest as a spiritual masochist so as to demonstrate that fact to humanity: realized after the fact because of him playing out the role of the martyr.

****************************************************************************

My tentative answer is this: Jesus was not crucified by God. He was crucified by some people living at that time, because of their own decisions, based on their projections and distortions. Jesus was consistent with his mission and his teachings and in the end decided not to run away from his persecutors. Other times before in his lifetime he had indeed run away or evaded his persecutors because “his time had not come”. It is possible, because of spiritual masochism, and of the existing prophecies at that time, that Jesus himself could believe that God’s plan was to have him killed this way; though, this was not necessary and was just a consequence of the above. My personal feeling is that, if it had been God’s plan to have Jesus crucified, ie. as something necessary for spiritual salvation or advancement of humanity, this plan would have been designed against natural law. The same may apply to some of Jesus disciples who suffered similar deaths as martyrs.

***************************************************************************

It not as if God somehow desired for Jesus to be Crucified. It's simply because God knew that would occur as a consequence to the nature of those times. And it was this that Jesus himself inwardly knew, and that which he consciously made a decision to do anyway: spiritual masochism.

*************************************************************************

Doesn’t the idea of a martyr serving to expand the consciousness of people martyring the martyr seem unnatural? The effect of an expanded consciousness of those martyring the martyr after can occur, ie. “it seems he really was the Son of God”, though, that doesn’t mean that martyring the martyr was necessary for such realizations to occur. It doesn´t mean either that that type of realizations will occur necessarily. For Nero the emperor and others it was an amusement.

*************************************************************************

It is indeed unnatural. But those times, as these times are, are the essence of what is unnatural. And because of this unnaturalness the role of the spiritual martyr became necessary. And, thus, the realizations of those that came after the Crucifixion.

****************************************************************************

If God’s plan required a martyr like Jesus, it would have also required the whole group of people taking that decision to martyrize. Those individual choices were “free” choices, predictable as they may have been though free in the end. The same can be said of Judas betrayal: if his choice was fated, then it was not free. If it was not free, then why should he create any karma for that choice (JWG has referred to the karmic consequences of Judas betrayal)?

**************************************************************************

Those choices were indeed predictable due to the nature of the humans in that time and place including the nature of Judas himself. And even though, in potential, the humans of that time and place, including Judas, could have made totally different choices the existing nature of their natures was that which made their choices predictable. And it is because of this, that God knew, that they required that Jesus serve in the role that he did, and in the way that he did it. And, because of this, the choices that those humans made then, including the choices of Judas, did indeed create the karma of those choices.

**************************************************************************

“The origin of this (religious masochism of Christianity) is Jesus himself ... 'father forgive them for they know not what they do”. If they had not known what they did, as Jesus thought then, they would have not been free to do it. In that case, what happened would have been caused by other will, ie. the will of God. On the contrary, if they knew what they were doing, ie. that they were killing an innocent man, then the martyr situation was not wanted by God, but was a consequence of free human decisions which could have been different.

*************************************************************************

When Jesus said those words he was referring to the IGNORANCE of those people relative to the reasons why they made those decisions. And, thus, asking God to forgive them because of that ignorance. And it is that ignorance that lead to his Crucification. He was simply judged by most in that time as but yet another 'false prophet'. We must remember in that time there were many, many others claiming to be the messiah. Many others that had 'followings' of other people. Even when people were given the choice to save his life versus Barabas the people chose Barabas. Only but a tiny few actually knew the true nature of Jesus in the time of Jesus. A tiny few.

****************************************************************************

In any case, “knowing what they were doing” would have been relative to their own type of understanding, mental constructions, believe systems. Perhaps they did not know they were killing an individual that was fully enlightened and God realized. I guess they could know, however, that they were killing an innocent man.

**************************************************************************

They did not know that at all. For the vast majority he was nothing more than another false prophet.

God Bless, Rad


« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2010, 02:13 PM by Rad » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 20, 2010, 04:30 PM »

Thank you so much Rad for your answer. I shall be thinking about your reply before I post anything further.
I am now relocating, moving tomorrow from Valparaíso to Santiago.

God Bless,

Gonzalo

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« Reply #6 on: Aug 22, 2010, 08:40 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks so very much for clarifying and expanding on what JWG taught about Jesus - his nature, his mission, etc. I found this very helpful, and I've posted a few questions below:


I also recall JWG says somewhere (I couldn’t find this reference now) something like Jesus was a masochist because he did not feel prepared to face the destiny God intended for him, as reflected in some of his final words before dying: “Father, if possible take this cup away from me” and “Father, why have you abandoned me?”

***************************************************************************

JWG said that Jesus made the inner decision to cooperate with the mission that he was given by God, and the destiny of that mission. His own relative imperfection was reflected as he was dying on the Cross as reflected in those words: "Father, take this cup from me". And the ongoing influence of Evil, that dogged Jesus his whole life, which is why he said so many times "Satan, get behind me", was that which caused his to say the words "Father, why have you abandoned me", when in fact there was no such abandonment.

Wolf often mentioned how Jesus was "dogged" by Evil, and I know that the closer one gets to God'dess, the more pronounced and persistent that influence becomes, but it also seems that Jesus had to deal with this influence more than others in this position, at least from the ones I've read about or heard about. For example, Yogananda, too, had this experience with evil, but not to the same extent. So, my guess is that there is a reason Jesus had to go thru this extreme testing, but could you enlighten us as to what that was? And was at least PART of it to demonstrate to others HOW to resist evil?

************************************************************************

It is indeed unnatural. But those times, as these times are, are the essence of what is unnatural. And because of this unnaturalness the role of the spiritual martyr became necessary. And, thus, the realizations of those that came after the Crucifixion.

This, to me, is an especially 'tough' one; i.e., in relation to the "realizations of those that came after the Crucifixion," we sure don't seem to have come very far in the last 2000 years (revealing just HOW slow evolution actually IS), considering the fact that, as you mentioned above, the times we are living in now are also "the essence of what is unnatural." Makes me shudder to think of how this will play out to bring about the necessary 'correction.' Will we need yet another martyr like Jesus as we move to the Aquarian Age, or will there be a "collective martyrdom" - possibly reflected in the US chart's Aquarian Moon in the 10th inconjunct Neptune in Virgo in the 5th, which squares Mars in Gem in the first and Venus in Cancer in the 2nd, and the Mars trines that moon, and The venus sesquiquadrates the moon? And we cann add the Chiron in Aries in the 11th, which, thru it's sextile to the moon and inconjunction to the neptune, form a Yod, and it also opposes Saturn in libra in the 5th, adding to the "pressure" to bring this dynamic to a head. Your thoughts?


****************************************************************************

If God’s plan required a martyr like Jesus, it would have also required the whole group of people taking that decision to martyrize. Those individual choices were “free” choices, predictable as they may have been though free in the end. The same can be said of Judas betrayal: if his choice was fated, then it was not free. If it was not free, then why should he create any karma for that choice (JWG has referred to the karmic consequences of Judas betrayal)?

**************************************************************************

Those choices were indeed predictable due to the nature of the humans in that time and place including the nature of Judas himself. And even though, in potential, the humans of that time and place, including Judas, could have made totally different choices the existing nature of their natures was that which made their choices predictable. And it is because of this, that God knew, that they required that Jesus serve in the role that he did, and in the way that he did it. And, because of this, the choices that those humans made then, including the choices of Judas, did indeed create the karma of those choices.

I found this explanation actually very helpful and 'hopeful,' i.e., "due to the nature of the humans in that time and place" and their underlying "potential," as it points to the fact that we all have the underlying spirit and potential to do what is "right," what is "best," etc., and yet it also depends on our individual and collective evolutionary stage as to how that plays out. Your explanation (to me) helps clarify the "why" behind what happened.

I guess that's all the questions/comments I have at the moment. Thanks again for illuminating these dynamics further, Rad!

God bless, Adina


God Bless, Rad
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 23, 2010, 10:52 AM »

Hi Adina,

 "Wolf often mentioned how Jesus was "dogged" by Evil, and I know that the closer one gets to God'dess, the more pronounced and persistent that influence becomes, but it also seems that Jesus had to deal with this influence more than others in this position, at least from the ones I've read about or heard about. For example, Yogananda, too, had this experience with evil, but not to the same extent. So, my guess is that there is a reason Jesus had to go thru this extreme testing, but could you enlighten us as to what that was? And was at least PART of it to demonstrate to others HOW to resist evil?"

**************************************************************************

The core reason was in direct relation to the magnitude of his mission, the very purpose of his life. The primary way that Lucifer attempted to affect Jesus was through the vehicle of doubt. And, yes, part of was to demonstrate to others how to resist evil.

*************************************************************************

This, to me, is an especially 'tough' one; i.e., in relation to the "realizations of those that came after the Crucifixion," we sure don't seem to have come very far in the last 2000 years (revealing just HOW slow evolution actually IS), considering the fact that, as you mentioned above, the times we are living in now are also "the essence of what is unnatural." Makes me shudder to think of how this will play out to bring about the necessary 'correction.' Will we need yet another martyr like Jesus as we move to the Aquarian Age, or will there be a "collective martyrdom" - possibly reflected in the US chart's Aquarian Moon in the 10th inconjunct Neptune in Virgo in the 5th, which squares Mars in Gem in the first and Venus in Cancer in the 2nd, and the Mars trines that moon, and The venus sesquiquadrates the moon? And we cann add the Chiron in Aries in the 11th, which, thru it's sextile to the moon and inconjunction to the neptune, form a Yod, and it also opposes Saturn in libra in the 5th, adding to the "pressure" to bring this dynamic to a head. Your thoughts?

**************************************************************************

There will be no more Jesus's on this Earth in the future. No more Buddha's, no more Mohammed's, etc. And there will be no 'collective martyrdom' in the sense of whole groups of people consciously sacrificing themselves in order for necessary realizations to occur to the collective so that change that reflects Natural Laws can occur. There will be the sacrificing of increasing amounts of people at the hands of those that are in power in order to sustain that power, and the greed that motivates that need for that kind of power. Any changes to this will occur through circumstantial necessity, not collective enlightenment.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad 
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 23, 2010, 04:06 PM »




There will be no more Jesus's on this Earth in the future. No more Buddha's, no more Mohammed's, etc.

[
color=blue]Hi Rad,

This statement to me is quite unsettling. Can you explain why this is?  Have we been abandoned by the enlightened masters?


Peace,
Ellen[/color]
And there will be no 'collective martyrdom' in the sense of whole groups of people consciously sacrificing themselves in order for necessary realizations to occur to the collective so that change that reflects Natural Laws can occur. There will be the sacrificing of increasing amounts of people at the hands of those that are in power in order to sustain that power, and the greed that motivates that need for that kind of power. Any changes to this will occur through circumstantial necessity, not collective enlightenment.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad  
« Last Edit: Aug 24, 2010, 01:55 PM by Ellen » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 24, 2010, 10:46 AM »

Dear Rad,

What you posted about the chart of Jesus makes is very clarifying to me. I am sorry I took so long to understand what you wrote, being so simple in reality.
 
I am so happy that you are here so you can answer this type of questions.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 24, 2010, 01:57 PM »

Just reposting this with my question in blue highlight so that it can be seen.




There will be no more Jesus's on this Earth in the future. No more Buddha's, no more Mohammed's, etc.

[
color=blue]Hi Rad,

This statement to me is quite unsettling. Can you explain why this is?  Have we been abandoned by the enlightened masters?


Peace,
Ellen[/color]
And there will be no 'collective martyrdom' in the sense of whole groups of people consciously sacrificing themselves in order for necessary realizations to occur to the collective so that change that reflects Natural Laws can occur. There will be the sacrificing of increasing amounts of people at the hands of those that are in power in order to sustain that power, and the greed that motivates that need for that kind of power. Any changes to this will occur through circumstantial necessity, not collective enlightenment.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad  
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 24, 2010, 05:18 PM »

Hi Ellen,

 Because there is no more need for such things. There is nothing more to teach, or to know. All the teachings have been given. The issue becomes application: humans making the effort to apply. Many of the great Souls are available now within versus without. As Yogananda said about Jesus there will be no more 'second coming' other than he and others being available within. The great one's never abandon, humans abandon them.


God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 24, 2010, 07:26 PM »

Hi Ellen,

 Because there is no more need for such things. There is nothing more to teach, or to know. All the teachings have been given. The issue becomes application: humans making the effort to apply. Many of the great Souls are available now within versus without. As Yogananda said about Jesus there will be no more 'second coming' other than he and others being available within. The great one's never abandon, humans abandon them.


God Bless, Rad

Thank you so much Rad.  I think this makes sense to me.  When you say many of the great Souls are available within, do you mean that, if you pay attention and allow it, they are with you now, you can hear them and receive teaching from them, ie, that they do not need to manifest as they have in the past because they are now always available to those who desire and listen...  Is this right?  (I ask because I think that, in a very small/limited way, I experience this.)

Peace,
Ellen
« Last Edit: Aug 24, 2010, 07:28 PM by Ellen » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 25, 2010, 08:43 AM »

Hi Ellen,

 YES ........

God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 25, 2010, 03:05 PM »

Thank you again Rad.

Peace,
Ellen
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