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ari moshe
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« on: Aug 29, 2010, 01:13 PM »

Hi All, I was wondering if anyone here feels they can offer more concrete information in regards to:

1. The general time period by which the transition from matriarchy to patriarchy took place. I have heard JWG refer to it as over 5000 years ago (planetary nodes dvd)- which correlates to the biblical dating of the garden of eden myth. Is it accurate to say that this transition took place towards the end of the age of Cancer moving into Gemini?

2. Clarification of the garden of Eden myth. I imagine there there must have been other myths that reflect a similar distorted consciousness that arose in other cultures in other parts of the world at that time. Is this true? Otherwise, from an historical point of view, did the distortion actually begin with that very Hebraic myth? If so, when did that myth actually become known?

2. More specific transitions that have taken place within the devleoping patrairchy, such as women's sexual roles- monogamy- agriculture etc...
A lot of this is being discussed in the Virgo thread, and I thought it would be a good idea to get more grounded on the history itself.
Thank you so much,
Ari Moshe
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Dhyana
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 29, 2010, 09:27 PM »

Ari, this link may prove useful to you...

--let me know~

Lovingly,
Dhyana

http://www.intuition.org/txt/lerner1.htm
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mountainheather
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 30, 2010, 03:51 PM »

Hi Ari,
Can you clarify number two?  Are you wondering if other cultures have distorted their fall from grace myths?   In my understanding all culture would distort the natural archetypes unless they model their themselves after natural law, maybe you are looking for specific examples.  Yogananda refers to the HIndu version in his autobiography p 198 in the footnotes... actually starting on p 196 there is a good description by Sri Yuketswar of the Adam and Eve myth in a much less distorted view.

Thanks for inviting the discussion, Heather

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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 31, 2010, 10:29 AM »

Hi Ari,

 Here is the table for the Capricorn Sub-Age of the Cancer Age. JWG taught, according to actual his/herstory itself that the transition for the Natural Times that is called the Matriarchy to what is called the Patriarchy began at the very end of the Capricorn Sub-Age which was then ruled by Sagittarius: the change from Natural Laws that did not require 'beliefs' at all, to man concocted beliefs that progressively turned the Natural Laws emanating from the Creator upside down, and inside out. I have cut and pasted from JWG's chapter on Pluto in Sagittarius in his Pluto 2 book the relevant paragraphs that correlate to your questions.


CAPRICORN SUB-AGE 7,660-6,580 B.C.

7,660 - 7,570 - Capricorn
7,570 - 7,480 - Aquarius
7,480 - 7,390 - Pisces
7,390 - 7,300 - Aries
7,300 - 7,210 - Taurus
7,210 - 7,120 - Gemini
7,120 - 7,030 - Cancer
7,030 - 6,940 - Leo
6,940 - 6,850 - Virgo
6,850 - 6,760 - Libra
6,760 - 6,670 - Scorpio
6,670 - 6,580 - Sagittarius

From JWG:

So as we discuss the future possibilities of Pluto's movement into Sagittarius it is essential that we understand the historical cycles that has conditioned the structural nature of our existing reality. And it is essential, at this point in time, that we embrace the fact that we have entered a time frame in which the transition of the Ages between Pisces and Aquarius is now just beginning. From the point of view of the past it is critical that we understand that during the last Aquarian Age, twenty five thousand years ago, that the original matriarchy was firmly established. By evolving into a new Aquarian Age it would seem essential that we understand, as best we can, what the context was for the last Aquarian Age if we are to apply what was understood and realize then so that a harmonization with what is needed now can take place.

In essence the matriarchal reality was a reality in which all people lived in harmony with natural laws, the laws of the natural world which are self-evident. Nature was understood to be fully conscious, interrelated, interdependent, and that all created forms of life within nature were co-equal. Nature reflected on Earth was considered to be God: there were no sky gods at that time. In today 's world this is what we now call Gaia. As a result, the belief systems of that time were systems of belief that were directly linked to the self-evident laws of the natural world. As such, all people interpreted phenomenal reality from the point of view of natural laws. In so doing, the matriarchy lived within a total state of balance and equality within the totality of the rest of the manifested Creation. Their teachers were the self-evident laws of nature, and more specifically, the animals and plants around them: animals and plants were considered to have living spirits within them in such a way that these spirits could teach and communicate with them, and visa versa.

Within the matriarchy men and women patterned their own relationships in direct observance of the natural world: by observing how the various animals lived within their own realities, and how the gender roles of masculine and feminine were naturally acted out. In this way, it was naturally understood that the source of Creation emanated from the feminine principle: the actual act of giving birth, and the observed fact that the maintenance and integrity of the family units was caused by the feminine members of whatever tribe or pack of animals that they were observing. At the time of the matriarchy neither men or women had the intellectual knowledge that both men and women co-equally created a baby. Thus, when a women conceived a child, this was considered to be a magical act directly linked with the Source of Creation Itself even though there was no conception for that Source in the way that it is understood today. It is this actual historical fact that was the reason for the matriarchy. And because of this fact how men and women of that time understood and related to their sexuality was also completely different than today. To have sex with a women was to have sex with the magical aspect of the Creation: in modern vernacular it would be stated as "making love with God". Thus, sexuality was a sacred dynamic that was in harmony with natural laws.

Within the matriarchy there was no monogamy, there was no nuclear family as we know it, there was no paternity, children were raised on a communal basis, and the male children were typically sexually initiated through specific rituals at puberty in order to teach them about the natural laws of, and proper use of, sexual energy. Because the people of that time lived according to natural law the women and men lived very differently than in today's world, a world totally dominated by patriarchal beliefs. For example, every women has a naturally dual sexual nature. One the one hand the women has the need and desire for what can be called the primary partner type of man. This is the type of man, by nature, who desires to be a constant partner to the women. On the other hand, each women has a natural desire for what can be called the 'wild man', this type of man having the natural nature which is the antithesis of the primary partner type of man: to be totally free, uncommitted, and who desires to plant his "seed" in as many places as possible. There are two natural laws or reasons for this natural evolutionary and biological law. One reason is rooted in the survival of the species itself. What this means is that because the primary causes for death to the human organism occurs because of viruses, bacteria, and parasites the human organism must have a very strong immune system to fight against these types of invasion.To have a strong immune system the human organism must be able to evolve or mutate the immune system over time. This evolution or mutation occurs through the biological act of sexual intercourse wherein the sperm and ovum combine to make another person: the pre-existing immune systems of the two people who are exchanging their sperm and ovum combine to make a new person, thus a changed or altered immune system that is produced through the fusion of the sperm and the egg. If reproduction of the human species, or most any other form of life was an asexual act, a cell reproducing itself through splitting itself, then the immune systems within the human organism would remain static or fixed. Thus, as a strategy for survival the human organism, as most other living organisms have, adopted the strategy of sexual intercourse to sustain its own life form. Long ago when the human population on Earth was very small this required, relative to natural laws, the women being available to as many men as she could be so as to experience as much diversity as possible relative to the instinct within the species to survive. This natural law was also part of the necessity of creating diversity within the gene pool of the human organism. Even with a males sperm there is are special sperms that evolutionary biologists have called "killer sperms". When a man ejaculates into a women these killer sperms surround the cervix of the women in order to block or kill other sperms from entering the cervix. These sperms are actually linked to the immune system of the ejaculating man. Thus, a women would have intercourse with as many of the 'wild man' types as possible in order for the natural law of 'selection to occur: to only become pregnant by strong, vital men which would then guarantee the survival of the species. The other reason is also just as important, and natural. This reason or law is rooted in the fact that all living beings carry their entire evolutionary background, or knowledge, in their sexual fluids. When sexual fluids unite in the act of sexual intercourse an osmosis (Pluto) occurs wherein each person is absorbing into themselves the others 'knowledge. Thus, for a women to embrace the multiplicity of various sexual unions with different men was to expand her own consciousness through the absorption of as much sperm as possible. Through natural law this was/is a evolutionary imperative. In this way, as her own consciousness expanded, the women would then have the affect of helping the men evolve as she would release her own fluids to the man during intercourse. When people lived naturally these natural ways were simply lived without any of the problems that have been created by the patriarchy such as possessiveness, jealousy, attachment, etc. If you doubt the validity of what I am saying, simply visit a professional evolutionary biologist and ask them these questions. Your patriarchal conditioning may be shocked at the answers because even these scientists have now come to these same realizations. And these dual archetypes in the women still naturally exist, as does the dual archetype for man: the primary partner type of man, and the 'wild man' archetype. This is why the issue of "monogamy" in our times, naturally speaking, is a free choice issue. In other words, monogamy in the sense of one person just being with one other person, is not yet programmed into the genetic structure of the human organism as it is in say wolves or eagles. If it were then all the problems associated with infidelity would not exist: there would be no desire or impulse to not be monogamous. Even two people who are in the best of relationships, who feel totally committed to one another, can still feel instinctual attractions to others. This alone should demonstrate the natural laws that we are talking about here. As a result of all these natural ways of living there is no historical evidence of any kind that demonstrates wars or sexual violations to women throughout the entire time of the matriarchy ! Within this, there was no class differences: all was shared equally. People had personal possessions, yet now one owned land: the land was everyone's on an equal basis. And men and women were considered total equals that had their own natural roles. Given these historical facts this would tend to suggest that by being in harmony with natural laws such things as wars, sexual violations to women and children, one gender trying to dominate the other, political struggles for power and dominance, the personal psychology of feeling threatened or jealous of a partner leading to attachment or control, simply do not, or can not exist. Comparing this to our "modern" world, and all the truly horrible things that have occurred for thousands of year now, this would seem the ideal to be re-realized !

So the obvious question becomes: how, when, and why did this way of living change ? The change began when men began to realize that they had an equal role in conceiving a child. This may sound strange, but it is the actual reason that a slow transition began between the matriarchy and what we now call the patriarchy. For reasons that are not yet clear this created a new sense of power in men. Astrologically speaking, this transition began during the Capricorn sub-age of the Cancer Age: rather interesting symbolism given the fact that both Capricorn and Cancer correlate psychologically to gender definition and assignment as promoted by the consensus of any society ! Relative to this new sense of power in men the progressive transition to patriarchal domination began. As such, the very nature of belief systems themselves began to change. As a result, how phenomenal reality was interpreted and understood also began to change. Instead of living within the context of natural laws and the beliefs that these laws created, the progressive transition to the patriarchy lead to man made beliefs and laws that were in progressive opposition to natural laws. Progressively, the patriarchy began to take over and dominate what was the matriarchy, men created belief systems whose intention and motivation was rooted in the need to create justifications for their superiority over women: and through extension Nature itself. This started with the invention of "sky gods" that were a simultaneous reflection of the man created doctrine (belief) that there is an intrinsic or natural conflict between the worlds of spirit and flesh. Flesh, which represented in essence sexuality, was now presented as a temptation that undermined the world of spirit. Thus, to be a spiritual person, to spiritually evolve, one must suppress and control the natural energies emanating from the body. From this, women now represented the world of flesh and the sense life of the body. Thus, she now symbolized temptation, and, if followed, man's spiritual downfall. This belief system created by men is represented in many myths developed during this time in history, including the Garden Of Eden Myth. Thus, as the patriarchy became ever more entrenched, became the mainstream or consensus of thought, women became progressively subjugated to men's will, control, and domination.

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Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 31, 2010, 10:31 AM »

Essentially, women had two choices for thousands of years relative to the patriarchy. A women could either legally declare herself to be a prostitute, or she could declare herself to be a "good women". This meant she had to become married to a man, and reduce her life to living within a small hovel of a house, never allowed to leave that house, was not allowed to own possessions or be educated in anyway, and was, of course, expected to produce children with the hope that those children would be male children. This was essential for men to have yet more power because to have power was to own land. To have more power the husband must be able to pass his land and possessions down to his male children. Because of this need, men had to know who they had had intercourse with in order to know who his children were. This became the basis of the nuclear family, paternity, the requirement and expectation for women to be monogamous, and the suppression of natural laws including natural sexual laws. Thus, the ritualized sexual initiation rites for male children at puberty were suppressed. Again, anything that is natural and becomes suppressed will assume distorted forms. For example, by the time of the early Roman Empire the middle and wealthy classes of people would send their puberty age son's to professional prostitutes in order for this initiation to occur. Yet, this was not the same in anyway as compared to the sexual rituals of the matriarchy, with its inherent knowing and understanding linked with natural laws. It became reduced to physical sexuality of a rather gross nature. Sexuality was progressively understood to be a simple act of biological reproduction: no more and no less as the centuries unfolded. On the other hand, if a women declared herself to be a legal prostitute, she was allowed to own possessions including land, and to educate herself.

In essence, men created belief systems that conceived of a perfect male god in which the essence of His Creation was imperfect ( a natural contradiction that escaped their intellectual cognition for reasons that must now be obvious ), and in which men were not only superior to women, but that humans in general were superior to Nature. Relative to man's need to now dominate, control and subjugate women this also manifested as man's inherent right to dominate and control Nature, and natural laws. Over time women was conceived to be inherently evil, witness the writing of the First Century Christian writers, and were made to feel guilty for being a women: she symbolized man's spiritual downfall. Relative to the man created idea or belief that God is inherently perfect, and to achieve spiritual advancement one had to suppress the life of the flesh, women was made to atone for her inherent guilt. And men were made or caused to feel angry or anger for giving in to the temptation embodied in women. As stated in the first chapter of this book, this is the causative factor for the pathology and psychology now called sado/masochism. And because of the implied guilt for both relative to a perfect male god, both men and women were now taught that all must suffer in order to not only atone for their imperfection, but that spiritual growth itself was dependent on circumstantial suffering.

Progressively natural laws and natural living gave way to man made beliefs that were indirect contradiction to natural laws. We must remember that anything that is suppressed will become distorted at a subconscious level. And that which is natural when suppressed will become the basis of anger or rage. Thus, as the patriarchy became ever more established, the very opposite reality that defined the matriarchy became the 'reality' that we all sadly know today: wars that cause hideous suffering for those involved, these wars all to often having "religious" justifications, economic and political classes of people causing class conflicts ( the have and have not's ), the psychological and sexual abuse of women and children, the psychological dynamics of jealousy, possessiveness, and attachment within intimate or marriage type relationships, the psychology of egocentric ambition or self interest to get ahead of the next person that breeds competition, ulterior motives, secret or dishonest agendas, and the egocentric feeling of being more important than the next person.

Because of these patriarchal belief systems Nature itself has become progressively violated by human beings. No longer do human beings, with rare exception, live within a consciousness of equality with Nature. When natural laws are simply allowed to exist, Nature is always in a state of absolute balance and harmony. Natural laws are self-regulating, and self-correcting. Because of the man created beliefs that humans are superior to Nature, something to be dominated and used for the human benefit, this doctrine has produced the obvious fact that the human organism is in an almost total state of imbalance relative to the rest of the natural world. The consequences of this fact have, and will, come to ahead within this century, and that to follow.

At this point it may be very interesting to look at all this through the glasses of astrology. From the point of view of past lifetimes and evolution it is remarkable that almost all people on the planet today have their South Nodes of the planets Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto in Capricorn, with, of course, their North Nodes in Cancer. And that almost all of us have the South Node of Neptune in Aquarius and the North Node in Leo, and the South Node of Uranus in Sagittarius, with its North Node in Gemini. What does this mean ? It means that almost all the people on the planet today have had past lifetimes exactly when the original matriarchy was in place, South Node of Neptune in Aquarius, and lifetimes when the transition between the matriarchy and patriarchy began and picked up momentum: the South Nodes of Saturn, Jupiter, and Pluto ( the collective and individual Soul structure )in Capricorn. With the South Node of Uranus in Sagittarius for most of us this means that most of us have lived at least a few lives within tribes, cultures, or societies that were defined by natural laws. And, now, here we all are at a very precarious time in the history of Earth itself when, in effect, we have a galactic return twenty five thousand years later to the original matriarchal point !

So why is this collective group of Souls on the planet now ? This linkage between this groups past being born at this point in history suggests that this group is now here in order to apply the realizations and lessons from those distant times into our world today: and to the future. It suggests that the real spiritualization ( Neptune ) will occur when we remember our ultimate spiritual root: the South Node of Neptune in Aquarius. Thus, it means to return back to how the matriarchy lived: in a state of absolute balance with natural laws and Nature. In so doing, the dissolving ( Neptune ) of man made beliefs of a patriarchal nature will occur. From this original spiritual root, once re-realized, the very nature of how we interpret phenomenal reality will also change because the nature of our beliefs will become realigned with Nature and its natural laws. This is truly the real meaning of having the North Nodes of Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto in Cancer: to return back to our original origin (Cancer) in terms of lives on Earth. In so doing, the very nature of our individual and collective self-image ( Cancer ) will metamorphose ( Pluto ) by eliminating and dissolving the artificial thoughts and beliefs promoted by the patriarchy (Capricorn).

In essence, we will become realigned with the original and true self-image that has always been there from the beginning of time itself. In so doing, there will be a realignment of the physical, emotional, and spiritual bodies into a state of natural balance and integration: spirit and flesh will no longer be interpreted as mutually antagonistic. As a result, the patriarchal beliefs leading to suppression of all that which is natural will be removed. Once removed, all the behavioral distortions that occur because of suppression will no longer exist. As a result, the causative factors leading to all kinds of displaced rage and anger will no longer exist. By returning back to a collective and individual reality defined ( Saturn ) by natural laws ( the original Aquarian Age ) we will return back to a state of balance not only with ourselves as a collective organism, but with the planet itself. With the North Node of Neptune being in Leo it would seem clear that the Pluto in Leo generation is to be th initial generation that progressively will enunciate this need and vision. Just as the great astrologer Dane Rudyhar pointed out and predicted, this generation will produce key "seed people" in the decade of the 1990's who will initially promote the vision of a new paradigms that reflect the Aquarian Age that is now beginning to manifest. And, evolutionary speaking, this primarily occurs through the dissemination of ideas that can now migrate all over the planet because of the mediums of print, film, and television: the South Node of Uranus being in Sagittarius, with its North Node in Gemini, for most people on the planet today.

A simple review of recent history will illustrate the point of the Pluto in Leo generation being the initial generation to promote the need to embrace a new paradigm and vision. During the middle to late 1960's there was a progressive rebellion by this generation against the prevailing norms, customs, moralities, and religions of the consensus societies of that time. This included a total rebellion of how men and women were expected to relate to themselves which included the institution of marriage. There was a total "sexual revolution" as a result: remember the slogan "free love". Within this, there was an active search of information or knowledge systems from other cultures and times, and there was a strong focus on expanding consciousness through the use of drugs, and various Eastern spiritual systems as well as forms of Western Magic and Wicca. Environmental issues began as many wanted to re-embrace the sacredness of the Earth. This all occurred as the planet Neptune transited Scorpio thus causing a transiting T-square to the natal South and North Nodes of Neptune in this generations birthcharts. And, at the same time, this was squaring this generations natal Pluto's which are in Leo. Corresponding with this transit was the fact that the transit of Pluto was in Virgo. This transit thus created a T-square to the natal South and North Nodes of this generations Uranus. And, if this were not enough to trigger this generational rebellion, the transit of Uranus was in Libra conjuncting the natal position of Neptune for the entire generation: the total rebellion against gender assignment, and the roles within relationships that this reflects. Keeping in mind that the South Nodes of Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto are in Capricorn, with their respective North Nodes in Cancer, the Uranus transit conjuncting the natal Neptune's of this generation triggered the natural T-square between this generations natal Neptune squaring these Nodes. The women's movement began at this time.

Since that decade the movements that it spawned have increased to the point of creating a collective awareness of the issues related to the environment, the dissolving of the barriers between races and classes of people, women's and children's rights, and a progressive return to women being in positions of power. During the time that Neptune and Uranus have been transiting in Capricorn relative to Pluto in Scorpio all the dark and hidden secrets of women's and children's sexual abuse have been revealed. The "wounded child" became a buzz word in therapeutic circles. And, during 1992, more and more women became elected to political office. This occurred as the transits of Neptune and Uranus conjuncted all of our South Nodes of Pluto, Jupiter, and Saturn in Capricorn ! This has even included the election of women to run countries like Turkey and Pakistan: the essence of the patriarchal bastion.

I do not mean to suggest in this that somehow we will return back to a reality in which we are all wandering around in buffalo hides, and living in teepee's, so to speak. Of course this is totally impossible given the nature of our world today: autobahns, safeway markets, etc. It does mean that we must learn how to apply natural laws in the context of these times, and the times to come. THIS IS THE SPECIFIC CHALLENGE AND REQUIREMENT. If one studies history, and understands the level of evolution for most of the people on the planet, i.e. that seventy percent are in fact in a consensus state, the evolutionary necessities reflected in the now emerging Aquarius Age will not occur through some sudden collective enlightenment as so many "new age" writers speak about.



God Bless, Rad
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Wendy
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2010, 08:19 PM »

Hi Rad (and Ari),

Wow!  Rad this response is so full and rich with clarifying information and direction.  I know your response was in answer to Ari's original question, and I hope it's okay with both of you if I participate and ask questions as well.  I carry a deep resonance (and memories) of matriarchal ways and I am always exciting and enthusiastic regarding this topic.  

I had forgotten I had read the Pluto in Sagittarius section in JWG's Pluto 2 book, at least several times, so it was great to be reminded of it.  In reading that section, I felt particularly validated in relation to the research I was doing on the feminine, specific to Capricorn and the ancient matriarchs.  

The change began when men began to realize that they had an equal role in conceiving a child. This may sound strange, but it is the actual reason that a slow transition began between the matriarchy and what we now call the patriarchy. For reasons that are not yet clear this created a new sense of power in men.

As we all know this power has gone awry.  Rad do you think the patriarchal extremes playing out in our culture today is an attempt by the male gender to balance some level of inequity from a previous age? or some other scenario?  Clearly, the evil rampant in today's world goes beyond the need for authentic power.

To evolve forward and re-engender living via natural law, do you have sense or time frame (such as Ages) in which this may occur (if we don't kill ourselves in the process).  

Thank you and God'dess Blessings,
Wendy
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010, 08:34 PM by Wendy » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 01, 2010, 10:19 AM »

Hi Wendy,

As we all know this power has gone awry.  Rad do you think the patriarchal extremes playing out in our culture today is an attempt by the male gender to balance some level of inequity from a previous age? or some other scenario?  Clearly, the evil rampant in today's world goes beyond the need for authentic power.

To evolve forward and re-engender living via natural law, do you have sense or time frame (such as Ages) in which this may occur (if we don't kill ourselves in the process).

**************************************************************************

No, I don't feel what is playing out by way of the patriarchal extreme is due to another time of inequity form another time. And that's because there never was another time of inequity linked with the natural feminine principle: women. Previous to the time of the transition the gender definitions of male an female were in fact NATURAL: natural feminine and natural masculine as reflected in their natural roles in ever way. This perversion that the men/ patriarchy has created leading to the utter imbalance that it has is due, to me, by the forces of Evil. When we remember that Evil, Lucifer, can only be sustained as long as delusions are in place within humans then we can see how Evil manifests within humans in this way: the total dominance of one gender over another. How many folks realize, for example, that of all the property that is 'owned' in the world today that only one percent or less is 'owned' by women ?

And, to me, I do not ever see a time in the future in which this will change, to come back to a state of natural balance as defined by Natural Laws. To me the human race has made choices, and will continue to make choices, until it is to late, that will lead to it's extinction. And the root of that cause, to me, is the utter delusion of self interest equaling exclusion versus the natural laws of giving, sharing, and inclusion. This was, indeed, the cause of the patriarchy in the first place when men realized that they had a equal role in making babies with women. And what that then set in motion, which prevails to this day. Of course I hope I am completely wrong in my judgment that all will now lead to the extinction of the human species. Yet, it is what I feel in my bones.


*************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 01, 2010, 09:01 PM »

Hi Dhyana and Rad,

Thank you so much for sharing this info- I will have the opportunity to sit with it all later.
Heather, I will clarify my question as soon as I read all this over. It may have already been answered.
Ari Moshe
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Linda
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 01, 2010, 11:14 PM »

Hi Ari,

Here's a little more information about the Roman patriarchy in particular that may be useful:

The book, The Deepening Darkness:  Patriarchy, Resistance, and Democracy's Future, by Richards, Webb and Gilligan, examines the Roman patriarchy.

In the 800 year exercise in public violence that was the Roman Empire, men were never at home - they were out fighting relentless wars - so there was a huge separation between the sexes.  

While the Roman Empire may have collapsed, its psychology infected Western religion, thus perpetuating its latent violence.  In the words of one of the authors:

"If you’re going to set up a patriarchal society or any kind of tyranny, you have to deform human nature."
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Linda
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 02, 2010, 07:33 PM »

Ari, Rad and Wendy,

I've been doing a bit of research and the following could be useful to you:

The Age of Creation (a modern term) encompassed the following:

* Brahmanic religion (Hinduism) established between 700 and 500 BC.
* Buddhism dates to about 500 BC.
* The Old Testament was mostly written between 700 and 550 BC.
* Confucius (social philosophy) and Lao Tse (the founder of philosophic Taoism) both date from around 450-400 BC.
* Zarathustra (related to Judaism) dates to around 700-600 BC (traditional date is older, but modern research reveals the later date more likely).

All these major man-made religions, philosophies and ways of looking at life were spread across Eurasia around the same time.  They all began at the end of the Aries Age, during the Sub-Age of Libra

* Brahmanic religion is polytheistic but finds the ultimate "balance" (Libra) in the godhead Brahma where all opposites come to balance.
* Buddhism and Taoism are about achieving "perfect balance" by extinguishing the ego.
* Confucianism deals with attaining a "perfect balance" in society and life.
* Zoroastrianism describes an eternal battle between good (Mazda) and evil principles and the negotiation of a "balance" between them.

So we can see that these are linked by the principle of Libran balance.

That takes us to the Old Testament, which is incredibly unbalanced and incredibly patriarchal.  The symbolism here is defaulting to a higher power (patriarchal monotheism), or a supreme god who cannot be contradicted.  Perhaps here the Libran tendency to put teachers (Abraham, Moses) up on a pedestal.


Myths of the Fall
Mythologies all over the world have stories correlating to the "Garden of Eden" myth in that they tell of a time when humans were not separate from nature or the universe, and how they fell out of nature and lost their innocence which separated them from their true nature.  These myths come from every continent. 
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ari moshe
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 02, 2010, 08:34 PM »

Just wanted to give ya'll the heads up that I wont be around this forum for about a week as I have other blessed things that demand my energy. Thank you everyone again for contributing all of this knowledge.
Love,
Ari Moshe
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Rad
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 03, 2010, 12:41 PM »

Hey,

"If you’re going to set up a patriarchal society or any kind of tyranny, you have to deform human nature."

This quote is so incredibly true, and to the point. I ran across the below today on a blog. My God is all I can say, at least to the Natural God/ess.

***********************

In Afghanistan, We're Looking The Other Way As Police, Tribal Leaders Commit Child Rape
By Susie Madrak

So our troops are fighting and dying for child rapists in a warped fundamentalist theocracy. And we're protecting them? This is too much for my mind to comprehend (h/t Matt Osbourne):

    For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers. Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

    "Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."

    Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south. The Pashtun are Afghanistan's most important tribe. For centuries, the nation's leaders have been Pashtun.

    President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz. Afraid of retribution, both declined to be identified and would not be more specific for publication.

    As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

    He added, "I didn't see Karzai with anyone. He was in his palace most of the time." He, too, declined to be identified.

    In Kandahar, population about 500,000, and other towns, dance parties are a popular, often weekly, pastime. Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home. A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male rape."

    So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?

    Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet. Otherwise she is covered, head to ankle.

    "How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," 29-year-old Mohammed Daud told reporters. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

    Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said. When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

    That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.

    Addressing the loathsome mistreatment of Afghan women remains a primary goal for coalition governments, as it should be.

    But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial rape over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.

    "There's no issue more horrifying and more deserving of our attention than this," Cardinalli said. "I'm continually haunted by what I saw."

Let's not kid ourselves that this is some foreign disease, though. The fact is, whenever you add extreme religious fundamentalism and sexual repression, you get a toxic stew -- as members of extreme cults of all kinds, including many right here in the United States, can testify.

**********************************

God help us,

 Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 03, 2010, 02:28 PM »

Hi Rad (I originally addressed this to Ari. However, it was pointed out to me that this was an error as Rad posted the article I was referring to...),

Thanks so much for sharing this.  It is truly disturbing.  I did want to correct a common misconception in the article.  I am fairly certain that no one here holds this misconception, but it is quite prevalent, so I wanted to just address it.  Here's the quote:

"As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

In this paragraph, homosexuality and pedophilia are linked such that they appear to be one and the same.  This is not correct.  If the men happened to be interested in girls, no one would make the comment that heterosexuality was rampant.  Pedophilia is pedophilia.  It is not homosexuality.  Both straight people and gay people commit pedophilia.  This is a tragedy.  But it is not homosexuality that is a tragedy, just as it is not heterosexuality that is a tragedy.  It is pedophilia that is the tragedy.  This is a different thing altogether.

Thank you all for bearing with me.

Peace,
Ellen


Hey,

"If you’re going to set up a patriarchal society or any kind of tyranny, you have to deform human nature."

This quote is so incredibly true, and to the point. I ran across the below today on a blog. My God is all I can say, at least to the Natural God/ess.

***********************

In Afghanistan, We're Looking The Other Way As Police, Tribal Leaders Commit Child Rape
By Susie Madrak

So our troops are fighting and dying for child rapists in a warped fundamentalist theocracy. And we're protecting them? This is too much for my mind to comprehend (h/t Matt Osbourne):

    For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers. Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

    "Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."

    Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south. The Pashtun are Afghanistan's most important tribe. For centuries, the nation's leaders have been Pashtun.

    President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz. Afraid of retribution, both declined to be identified and would not be more specific for publication.

    As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

    He added, "I didn't see Karzai with anyone. He was in his palace most of the time." He, too, declined to be identified.

    In Kandahar, population about 500,000, and other towns, dance parties are a popular, often weekly, pastime. Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home. A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male rape."

    So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?

    Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet. Otherwise she is covered, head to ankle.

    "How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," 29-year-old Mohammed Daud told reporters. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

    Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said. When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

    That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.

    Addressing the loathsome mistreatment of Afghan women remains a primary goal for coalition governments, as it should be.

    But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial rape over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.

    "There's no issue more horrifying and more deserving of our attention than this," Cardinalli said. "I'm continually haunted by what I saw."

Let's not kid ourselves that this is some foreign disease, though. The fact is, whenever you add extreme religious fundamentalism and sexual repression, you get a toxic stew -- as members of extreme cults of all kinds, including many right here in the United States, can testify.

**********************************

God help us,

 Rad

« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2010, 05:11 PM by Ellen » Logged
Steve
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Posts: 565


« Reply #13 on: Sep 03, 2010, 02:38 PM »

Ellen

Quote
Pedophilia is pedophilia.  It is not homosexuality.  Both straight people and gay people commit pedophilia.  This is a tragedy.  But it is not homosexuality that is a tragedy, just as it is not heterosexuality that is a tragedy.  It is pedophilia that is the tragedy.  This is a different thing altogether.

Thank you for making that point and expressing it so clearly.
Steve
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Elen
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Posts: 869


« Reply #14 on: Sep 03, 2010, 05:04 PM »

Thank you, Steve.

Peace,
Ellen
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