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Author Topic: Scorpio archetype  (Read 11918 times)
Deva
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« on: Oct 17, 2010, 09:14 AM »

Scorpio archetype- I have been asked to moderate the thread for the Scorpio archetype. I thought we would start by understanding the archetype in its natural form, and then discuss the distorted, or conditioned, expression.
     Scorpio is a fixed archetype, female (energy moving towards the center), and water. This archetype comes after Libra where we were initiating relationships with others in order to learn about our own identity through comparison and contrast, and learn equality in a personal and social relationships in general. In the archetype of Libra, we are learning to balance extremes in our nature, or inwardly unite discordant aspects of our nature.
Now, in the archetype of Scorpio, we are facing our own personal limitations in order to transmute, or evolve, beyond those limitations. Scorpio correlates with the Soul, and the principle of evolution. We become aware of universal forces, or a higher source power, and we desire to merge with it in order to affect personal growth and evolution. In this archetype we confront the brightest aspects  of our nature, and the darkest parts of our nature. We then make choices to transmute limitations and evolve out of past patterns of behavior that are inhibiting growth, or to maintain these past behaviors. We also make choices about who we will commit to in relationships, and whom not. In other words, the Scorpio archetype correlates with the need to merge with a higher source of power in order to achieve evolution. In so doing, we must confront our pre-exiting limitations and make a commitment to grow past them. 
     Scorpio correlates with the need to penetrate to the “bottom line,” and is thus perpetually asking the question “why.” Scorpio correlates with the entire field of psychology, and the ability to penetrate oneself and others from a psychological point of view. Scorpio correlates with dynamics, or patterns of behavior, that provide us with a deep sense of unconscious emotional security. In this sense, it indicates areas of over- emotional investment. This archetype reflects obsessions and compulsions that we may have. When these behaviors create a situation of non-growth and stagnation, the famous rug must then be pulled from underneath the feet in order to promote the necessary lessons of self-reliance reflected in the Taurus polarity point. This experiences and memories creates fears of abandonment, betrayal and loss.
     In a natural expression of this archetype the person will motivate others to transmute and grow past their pre-existing limitations in a non-manipulative manner (without promoting a dependency upon him or herself). In addition, the person will be willing and able to confront their own limitations and affect the necessary metamorphosis without being dependant upon another or an external source of power. In a distorted, or conditioned, expression the person will manipulate other to have their own ulterior motives and agendas meet. The person may become obsessed with an external source that represents the power they are seeking, and manipulate it for their own ends. Defensiveness and resistance to change are also negative manifestations of the this archetype. The point within this is that this archetype reflects the need for growth, transmutation, and evolution. We experience power and powerlessness relative the dynamics that are known, and those that are not. It is our own response, and choice making, to these experiences and to the underlying need to evolve that dictates how this archetype will be expressed. In its best form, we have natural psychologists, and those that are very committed to helping others overcome their limitations and motivate others to do the necessary inner work. In contrast, in a negative expression, we have those who manifest a compulsive need to maintain past ways of being, and overtly or covertly manipulate others and sources of power for their own self-benefit. The Taurus polarity point reflects the need to learn self-reliance, and self-simplicity. We must look inside ourselves to identify our own inherent resources to affect survival, and self-reliance. The underlying need is to merge with a higher source of power, or another person, in a non-dependant manner.  In this way, we are able to purge the limitations of our past and continue to grow to greater heights of personal evolution.
I would like to invite others to post their insights and questions about this archtype.
 God Bless
Deva     
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Linda
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 18, 2010, 02:17 AM »

Hi Deva,

Thank you for accepting to moderate this thread, and for your thorough introduction of the Scorpio archetype.

My understanding of Scorpio is that it is the archetype of the "natural psychologist."  It possesses deep self-knowledge of its own motivations, desires and patterns, and is also able to penetrate into the core of others. 

Since Scorpio is the sign that correlates to the evolution of anything, this archetype is very aware of its own limitations, and therefore has a desire to move beyond those limitations.  It can evolve in a number of ways, but can also stubbornly resist change due to its fixed nature.

The power that it seeks can be used for exceptionally good purposes such as healing.  This type of Scorpio is referred to as the 'dove' or the Phoenix, it is gentle, compassionate, sincere and a great advocate of the weak.  Since Scorpio is also the archetype for 'evil,' it can become horribly distorted when its purposes are selfish in nature (the scorpion).  This can lead to behaviours such as obsession, compulsion, domination, manipulation and having power over others for its own purposes.  The "black and white" Scorpio archetype has the capacity for great good or great harm.

Since Scorpio is aware of its own limitations, its strong desire nature leads it to merge and absorb the power from powerful symbols and sources so as to effect metamorphosis, that is, attain greater levels of personal growth and evolution.  These symbols of power can be almost anything such as relationships, knowledge, status, money, sex, spirituality, etc., depending on the level of evolution. 

Since this archetype has a deep fascination with sexual energy, sexual union is a way it can metamorphose its limitations.  Scorpio is really looking for a partner with whom it resonates with on a deep soul level, but in casual relationships, when it has fulfilled some sexual need connected with power, it can easily discard the other.  This gives it the reputation for behaving like the 'black widow spider.' 

When the tables are turned, however, this archetype can suffer deep betrayal, abandonment, and violations of trust issues which can take lifetimes to resolve.  There is a need for Scorpio to develop more trust, to 'let go,' to surrender, and to be more open about its feelings.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2010, 06:08 AM »

Hello to everyone on the forum, I´m new here but not new to Astrology or EA. Am currently taking the correspondence course to deepen my knowledge in EA and felt now was the right time to register. Being a last degree Scorpio I would like to chime in on this topic and offer some insight.

For me, Scorpio is where we choose good or evil, light or darkness, love or hate.

It is only when we understand and face our own compulsions head on that we truly get to know ourselves and others, thru this process we must face our darkest and ugliest aspects in order to let the light shine on our potential. How can we choose what is right if we aern´t conscious of what really motivates us? Thru Scorpio we descend to the underworld (our own personal hell) in order to find out who we really are. What makes us tick and why. In this process of self discovery we CHOOSE which side we are on, who to be and what we want to evolve into as individuals.

So Scorpio seems to be related to free will and choice. Scorpio is where, thru re-living the same cycles again and again we can consciously make a choice to change our patterns. We all know the feeling when our fundamental security is threatened or when we are re-living a pattern that keeps playing out in our lives. For example when we are afraid of losing someone we love due to insecurities or jealousy. Scorpio here correlates to the fear of loss and betrayal, the re-living of these themes and also the awareness that arises from such experiences. Therefore only after dealing with these issues and diving deep into ourselves may we be free of subconscious fears in order to be able to make a conscious choice based on free will. Such as the choice to not take action based on vindictive impulses, therefore breaking a pattern.

In the case of the example above, thru the Taurus polarity of self reliance, patience and emotional stability one could learn to stay calm and objective in such a situation and wait things out instead of creating the typical emotional crisis that Scorpio tends to create when threatened. Scorpio also needs to learn objectivity thru the natural square to Aquarius.

Sometimes Scorpio could benefit from just chilling out and observing others and itself, calmly and patiently.



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Deva
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2010, 07:36 AM »

Hi, skywalker. Thanks so much for your input about the Scorpio archetype. It is very insightful and, in a true Scorpio fashion, right the to the point! I am open for input about what would be helpful to others to continue this thread. Examples of those with a predominate Scorpio in their chart? Questions from others about those who have Scorpio in their chart, etc? Please let me know what you all feel would be helpful at this point.
God Bless
Deva
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Dhyana
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 PM »

SCORPIO ARCHETYPE


I wanted to jump in too. With a South Node, Mercury and Neptune in Scorpio (H9) I would totally second what SKYWALKER has shared. Scorpio energy is very intense and as much as we would try to run and hide from some of the darker aspects of Scorpio, it somehow comes to find us and finally, we must meet the human shadow face to face,one way or another either in ourselves or in projected form outside of ourselves.

Scorpio is always looking for hidden motives and agendas of others, especially when much of it's nativie's  dark side has been repressed and unconsciously projected. It can have a great element of paranoia to it as well.

I feel what Scorpio is calling us to at the core, is to reckon with all that is hated and deemed dark and ugly within the human condition by shining the light of consciousness unto it rather than continuing to run, ignore  and repress it . For it is in the continual covering over and running from the repressed material of  human shadow (because it is very uncomfortable to be with) that it's negative aspects gain more momentum and power. But the promise is a literal rebirth and transformation, and true power that is Natural and without agenda.

There is a  possibility of a very deep and sacred liberation for the soul, when one has a strong Scorpio signature. But it takes real courage because some of what one may find there is extreme and difficult to look at and let move through and transform you and in this culture there is often not too much support for this deep kind of penetrating.

It is those with a strong  Scorpio signature that have actually met what most think they could never meet –and come out the other end healed, that can truly aid others who are fearing and running from their own darkenss, projected out as "other" or "internally", and to help to embrace all of it, in the Heart --the HEART of the Universe -- and  have a  true rebirth.  In my experience, I have found that nothing but the Authentic Space of the UNIVERSAL HEART, that is found in the very core of our own heart and soul, can deal with this kind of energy.

There is so much more I could share about the Scorpio Archetype, firsthand --but for now I this is what came.

--------------
this youtube clip can add to my description
"Self Hatred"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwfIE1ilio&feature=player_embedded
(give it a couple minutes to get to the heart of the message ---around 3minutes in it really gets to the crux.) I really feel it's worth the listen.

Real Peace,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:29 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:32 AM »

Skywalker and Dhyana,

I enjoyed reading both of your interpretations of the Scorpio archetype.  Welcome to the MB Skywalker. 


Deva,

Your quote: "Please let me know what you all feel would be helpful at this point."

The question arising for me now is:  Did Scorpio's 'dark' reputation come about due to patriarchal distortion?  Has many thousands of years of patriarchal conditioning bred and stored the dark aspects of the Scorpio archetype within the psyche of man?

I imagine that the undistorted expression during the long period of time of the Matriarchy would have been connected to healing of oneself and others, rising above limitations and deep communion with the Divine.  After all, the higher levels of Scorpio are so full of healing, grace and compassion. 

I'd also be interested in hearing your views, Deva, of the Scorpio North Node.  I like what you wrote in your introduction:  "We become aware of universal forces, or a higher source power, and we desire to merge with it in order to affect personal growth and evolution."

Here's something I'd like to share with the thread which encapsulates the serious devotion of the Scorpio archetype within the Spiritual evolutionary condition:  it expresses the deepest depths of despair and the highest of highs! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oObNTYIvWw4
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Deva
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2010, 09:47 AM »

Hi Linda, it is a good point you bring up in terms of addressing how the natural archetype of Scorpio has been distorted through man-made, or Patriarchal conditioning. The way I would answer your question  is that, in natural times, there was a natural understanding, or awareness, that we all have a shadow to face. Thus, the Plutonian, or Scorpio, process of cyclic death, re-birth, and personal re-generation was embraced as a natural part of life. Many of us can feel, at a subliminal level at least,  that there are dark or unhealthy aspects within ourselves that we must eliminate, or purge, in order to continue to grow. Yet, because of how we are conditioned, or culturally trained, to view such aspects within ourselves we are not comfortable accepting such dynamics which leads to resistance to growth and defensiveness to change. In other words, we may have internalized the message that we are dark and/or evil based on patriarchal judgments and standards, which leads to resistance to accepting the unhealthy dynamics within ourselves that need to change in order to evolve. Many people tend to hide from, or resist facing, their shadow. The point within this is that, in natural times and through aligning with natural law, we manifest the Scorpio archetype in a healthy or empowered state. We accept that facing our shadow, or our dark side, is a natural part of life and evolution itself (it does not make us dark or evil to face or recognize these dynamics within ourselves). We cannot change or evolve if we do not confront these dynamics within ourselves. When we manifest the Scorpio archetype this way, there is consistent growth and evolution, and a commit is made to resolving whatever issues need to confronted at any moment in time in a open and non-defensive manner.
      This eliminate unnecessary confrontations of  a negative nature with others. In addition, the “power trips” or power struggles with others will cease because we are seeking to re-empower ourselves and others, not to over- power, use, or manipulate others. In other words, we help others re-empower themselves and do not allow others to place us in a position of authority or power in their life ( we give power back to them so to speak). We all know the horrible stories of those who have abused power given to them in extreme ways, and that, in the end, have been exposed.
In terms of the North Node in Scorpio, in a general sense, it is about transmuting the “frog in the well” orientation reflected by the South Node in Taurus. The person must open up to new ways of being in general that expand upon the capacities and resources that person has already identified to affect survival and self-relaince (South Node in Taurus). It reflects the need to merge with others, and a higher source of power, in order to transmute pre-existing limitations. The person will most likely experience confrontations with others about these issues in order to expose the person to his or limitations of this nature, and to promote the necessary evolutionary changes that must be made for this life. In addition, it implies that the person must come to understand him or herself in psychological terms, and penetrate others in the same way. This allows the necessary metamorphosis symbolized by the North Node in Scorpio to manifest. Of course, these are general correlations. We must apply the principles of the “Pluto paradigm” to fully understand the evolutionary intentions/needs for the person who has and South Node in Taurus, and the North Node in Scorpio.
Hope this address your question, Linda, and please let me know if it does not.
God Bless
Deva
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mountainheather
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:40 PM »

Hi, thank you for the opportunity to look at thses archetypes.
My thoughts and feelings have been in the Sedna goddess archetype on another thread and I keep thinking Scorpio with regards to her and yes her sun sn is in Scorpio 4th house. So, I do feel her betrayal and tranformation into a spiritual healing prescence in our deep emotional realm is such a beatiful illustration of this archetype.  I feel the betrayal of Scorpio is natural. It involves the death of something an ideal or projection so that truth may emerge.  Scorpio's intense nature can be distorted or misunderstood, but underneath that is the desire to get to the bottom of things, the real truth as it relates to the soul.  I feel that the ability to understand symbolism is Scorpio, to get archetypes, out of necessity in fact, in order to make sense of the metaphysical and emotional content that it is immersed in.  Scorpio is the Goddesses way of showing us that the life death life cycle that permeates every aspect of our lives is deeply meaningful and nourishing.  And as I said in the other thread it is not trusting this divine cycle of things dying and birthing that is the distortion I feel when in this archetype.  This then leads to the decision to trust something greater and powerful lik the Goddess or try and take it into our own hands this is scorpios realm from my perspective. Thank you, I have so enjoyed and learned much from everyone's posts.
Heather,  oh yeah I have moon in Scorpio 12 house and Neptune in Scorpio exactly conj my ascendant and that  Pluto transit through those in my 20s-30s... Thank you EA for helping to make sense of it! Heather
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Dhyana
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 20, 2010, 02:49 PM »

Thanks for this articulation mountainheather,it really resonates:
 
mountainheather writesScorpio is the Goddesses way of showing us that the life death life cycle that permeates every aspect of our lives is deeply meaningful and nourishing. ........ And it is not trusting this divine cycle of things dying and birthing that is the distortion....  This then leads to the decision to trust something greater and powerful like the Goddess ..."

Peace,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Oct 20, 2010, 09:22 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Eric
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 20, 2010, 03:04 PM »

Hi All and thanks Deva for moderating,

In Scorpionic fashion, I'd like to take a stab at this.

Scorpio is the gateway, the gatekeeper, and the moderator in its' trinity with Cancer and Pisces. Scorpio says we can do this the easy way or we can do this hard way but eventually we are going to do this. While it may seem that Scorpio prefers the hard way, this is only so because because our sense of security is so freshly rooted in the bottom of the chart-Cancer. Scorpio itself has patience, knowing that everything must pass through it's domain.
In Cancer we seem to manifest spontaneously, having forgotten our deeper roots in Pisces. As this is the home of ego and the beginning of recognition of ourselves in relation to the material world, we go about our business condensing experiences into a container that appears limitless from our freshly minted perspective. A perspective which informs us that we can remain in this cuddly place, suckling moms tit indefinitely. Eventually, the moment comes when one must leave the sacred tit and venture out into the world.  Because we have become so identified with this condensed material form, the preconscious Piscean dreams we may have had ( or indeed they may have been nightmares) as suckling babies recede into mist reinforcing the construct that I am just this material body flung into a material world.  This reminds me of the dubious exclamation which probably took hold  during the industrial revolution " so and so is a person of substance"!
And here is the rub. If we are fully and completely filled with this illusion, when we come to Scorpio ( and all of us must) we are hammered not by Scorpio, but by our own attachment to this particular piece of meat we have temporarily inherited. Scorpio doesn't care. It just says "next"? The cool and aloof persona we project onto Scorpio is because we haven't yet learned how Scorpio likes to play.

Scorpio beckons as a lover. It entices. It whispers erotic poetry hoping to attract a mate who can shed the security blanket of ego and dance freely with their soul.  The stakes are not trivial, for this is serious fun. Here one moment, gone the next. This is the clean whoosh home versus the agony of the rack. As the gatekeeper on the highway of transmigration, Scorpio says all must pass. At some point on the endless commute, on the edge of your peripheral vision you might catch a glimpse of the express lane. Note to self...bring soul next time.

One more thought that applies to the distorted western archetype of Scorpio:

At the dawn of Christianity, in some circles, transmigration of the soul was understood to be a natural part of the cycle of life. Of course this had to be stamped out by the full weight of the burgeoning church if they were to capitalize on their evolving mythos of Jesus and in this case his resurrection.  We hear from stage left in a booming male authoritative voice.... "only the son of GOD can be resurrected into eternal life" and the subtitle reads " either accept this as the truth, or you'll get to experience whatever afterlife you believe in momentarily and sorry to tell you this but it'll be gruesome".  

Death came to be feared, and rightfully so in the context of ordained barbarianism. The Grim Reaper.

Oh... Happy Halloween Smiley

Blessings,
Eric
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Linda
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2010, 05:15 PM »

Deva, thank you for your further elucidation.

Heather, I'm feeling more trust in the Divine life-death-life cycle in the way you describe it.

Eric, fun reading you! - your insights are filled with truth.

The Sun moves into Scorpio in 3 days time, and perhaps we'll go even deeper in our explorations.

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Dhyana
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:11 AM »

If I remembered before, I would have added this youtube clip to the end of my recent post to elaborate a bit on what I shared there-in......

"Self Hatred"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwfIE1ilio&feature=player_embedded

Give it a little time because after the first 3 minutes it gets much more to the point...
....it's only about 8 minutes long. I think it is really worth the listen.

Thanks,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:26 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:59 AM »

Eric,

I LOVED your post!!!  ... what a great descrpition!

And when you wrote - "And here is the rub. If we are fully and completely filled with this illusion, when we come to Scorpio ( and all of us must) we are hammered not by Scorpio, but by our own attachment to this particular piece of meat we have temporarily inherited. Scorpio doesn't care. It just says "next"? The cool and aloof persona we project onto Scorpio is because we haven't yet learned how Scorpio likes to play......." I just inwardly applauded so loud!  (well, applauded through all of it actually.)

Thank you brother! You nailed it! (at least for me!)

So Happy Halloween to you too, Grin


Real Peace,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 02:18 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Skywalker
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2010, 04:02 AM »

Thank you all for welcoming me. This board is truly rich in information and full of people with a sincere desire to evolve thru Astrology and help others with this amazing tool. 

I liked what MountainHeather wrote about Scorpios connection to archetypes, it makes sense as archetypes seem to be a symbolic language of the Soul.

It is also quite obvious that the Scorpio archetype has been distorted in the sense that most major societies of the present day tend to avoid death at all costs and see it as something to be feared. When in fact it should be respected and included as part of the cycle of life. Actually it is thru the fear of death (resistance to change and fear of loss of control) that we as a species are controlled and manipulated by those in positions of power. If we were to accept death and re-incarnation as something natural, it would be harder to have control over us. We would see life as an evolutionary journey instead of something to hold on to desperately and, would be able to make the transition from this world to the next with grace. With no fear of death but a celebration of the cycles of life, death and rebirth we would be freer than we are today. Hopefully this is changing and in the future death will be embraced and, life will naturally have more meaning (Taurus).

Something I would like to get into is Scorpio and its connection to suicide.
I would like to delve into this topic as suicide can be a bit of a taboo even for Scorpios. I hope this isn´t too heavy and can be useful for anyone reading the MB.

Suicide is of course related to Scorpio although not necessarily entirely, but most matters connected to death and rebirth are. Suicide can be for various reasons such as but not limited to:

Extreme physical, emotional or mental pain.

An attempt to free oneself from a situation in which there is no apparent way out, such as having a chronic illness or being trapped or stagnated for a long period of time.

An attempt to avoid taking responsibility for negative actions such as avoiding going to prison for a crime.

Guilt of hurting others so deeply that their wounds are beyond repair.

As a way of inflicting life long wounds and a way of maintaining a karmic bond to someone that has betrayed or abandoned us. Sounds extreme but it does happen!

Pride and arrogance in trying to be captain of ones own life therefore resisting surrendering to forces larger than oneself.

The inability to adapt to a new situation where one is forced to adapt, due to Scorpios fixed nature this can be challenging. A little bit like being in a bardo in between the old and the new. Where everything loses meaning and Scorpio loses touch with its emotions.

Intense frustration and rage due to a situation that has reached its limit, leading to rash decisions and self destructive actions out of pure impulse.

Honor and integrity such as being loyal to ones country in time of war and commiting suicide in order to avoid revealing secret information that could hurt fellow countrymen. This can actually be seen as self sacrifice and not merely suicide.

Scorpio correlates with evolution as well as resistance to the evolutionary impulse.  That is why it can commit suicide, as the resistance or fear can be so intense that the person would rather end his/her life than deal with the evolutionary process.

These themes can come up at key points in peoples lives. Generally thru transits or progressions, these themes can be emphasized and, generally will involve Pluto stressfully aspecting planets or sensitive points in the chart, the 8th house and its ruler, stressful aspects to Pluto or a combination of various aspects at the same time.

It is also important to look at the natal chart for this potential to be trigerred by transits or progressions... not everyone with a Pluto transit is going to jump off a bridge!

Maybe someone else would like to delve into the potential solutions in counselling clients that are potentially suicidal?

I would just like to add that by looking into the polarity point and the natural squares to Leo and Aquarius there can be some keys to minimize the desire to commit suicide. Such as indicating that thru detachment and objective awareness (Aquarius) one can gain perspective and insight into a desperate situation. Or by the force of one´s creative spark (Leo) one can find a way to radiate life and joy again. And of course the Taurus polarity of self reliance, calmness and survival which is what Scorpio needs to embrace.

Some people deal with the lack of will to live by doing charity work for people that are less fortunate and live in terrible social conditions. This can be correlated to the natural trines to Piscies and Cancer. “I´m suffering but at least I can serve the whole“ in doing so one will also be nurtured in one way or another (Cancer) and the sextile to Virgo, in the sense that thru service, one has the opportunity to cleanse and heal.
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Wendy
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 21, 2010, 07:36 PM »

There is a need for Scorpio to develop more trust, to 'let go,' to surrender, and to be more open about its feelings.

Hi All,

I've been working a great deal and just getting back to the board and wanted to jump in.  

Linda I would like to talk more about the quote above...more trust, more open about its feelings.  Can you elaborate more?  

Also I'm wondering if it would be okay to post a chart of a client I am working with?  She came to see me years ago for bodywork/healing and sometimes we delved into astrology.  I spoke with her today and she wants to go deeper.  She has a grand cross with Pluto Scorpio-2, SN Scorpio-10 in the 4th, opposing Taurus Moon and Taurus NN, square Venus in Leo and Jupiter in Aquarius.

Maybe her chart would be useful for this thread, even though her sun archetype is not Scorpio, and especially while transiting Venus in Scorpio is activating her Pluto in Scorpio (which I believe she has no conscious recollection of).

It's great to go deeper in our study as we move deeper into autumn!

Blessings everyone,
Wendy

« Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 08:13 PM by Wendy » Logged
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