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Author Topic: Pluto a few degrees before a house cusp  (Read 4017 times)
Steve
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 26, 2010, 11:18 AM »

Hi Serban

The nature of Life is that it evolves.  It is ingrained.  The way that life evolves is by going to its polarity point. 

It is not Pluto alone that has a polarity point.  In his Pluto Volume 2 Relationships book, Jeffrey detailed in the chapters about Mars and Venus what moving towards the polarity of the sign that Mars and Venus are in looks like.  The same principle applies to all the planets and symbols in our charts.  Its just the way life works.

If it makes more sense to you, you could visualize it as it is the polarity point that is moving forward through the zodiac over time in its evolutionary track.  Since the planet must be 180 degrees apart from its polarity point, the planet is getting dragged forward by its advancing polarity point.

This is also indicated in progressed charts, which show how the evolutionary intentions are unfolding OVER TIME.  Thus the polarity point progresses also.

It does comes down to desire nature.  At a certain point we get sick of something we previously loved.  The feeling becomes "been there done that".  This too is part of how life is constructed.  (The EA material on the Cycles of Phases and Aspects is very relevant to this)

The Soul is not working on only one separating desire in a lifetime.  The chart is a map of our desire nature.  When you see grand crosses or a lot of squares or oppositions or a number of skipped steps, you are typically looking at the map of a Soul with conflicting simultaneous desires, wanting to go in multiple incompatible directions at the same time.

The Pluto polarity point is the most significant polarity point as it tracks the evolution of the Soul itself.

By the way, your questions are very good.  It is clear you are deeply and sincerely contemplating how this all comes together.  I know from my own unfolding process that it is necessary, and valid, to be in that place, to ask the sort of questions you are asking.  Taking in the replies.  For myself, at a certain point I had an inner intuitive experience when a light turned on, when I saw in an instant how all of the information I'd been taking in comes together as a cohesive whole in which the underlying natural process is intuitively grasped.  From my perspective you are asking exactly the right sort of questions, and it will lead, sooner or later, to you having your own inner experience of how all this works.

Feel free to ask further questions if you care to, Serban.
take care
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 26, 2010, 10:30 PM »

Hi Serban,

To add to what Steve is sharing: I just finished watching the "from karma to dharma" dvd by Jeff Green. One idea that he shared was to take the chart, as it is, and re-draw it such that every single planet is placed 180 degrees from where it is. The houses and the signs stay the same and the nodes stay the same.

So for example, if you have Pluto in the 1st house @ 28 degree Libra. You would simply move your Pluto to the 7th house 28 degrees Aries- and likewise for all the other planets.

This polarity chart points to exactly what needs to be embraced in order for evolution to proceed. Looking at my own, it's pretty telling! It doesn't mean the goal is to live as if you had Pluto in the seventh house in Aries- if it was, then your soul would have chosen such a placement. Rather, the polarity point, for any planet, serves as the integration for the intent implied by that natal planet.

Given that Pluto correlates to the bottom line reason for any particular incarnation AND also points to the greatest degree of resistance to change, then the Pluto polarity point is truly the most relevant signature for how to cooperate with evolution.

One way to understand the nature of any planet's polarity point, it to contemplate the shadowy aspect of that archetype (ie jupiter= self convincing) and then to contemplate how the point opposite that planet enforces awareness where there may otherwise be a fixed karmic pattern. (ie Juptier polarity point= challenges the scope of personal intuition, leads to an expanded understanding of Life).
Ari Moshe



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serban_p
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 27, 2010, 05:52 PM »

Steve, Ari,

Thank you both for your advice. This has been very helpful and does indeed put things in a new perspective.

I always pictured the evolutionary path in terms of getting to a point, staying there for as long as it is necessary to learn the lessons of that place (since these lessons are the reason why it was necessary to get to that point in the first place) and then somehow refusing to move forward along the evolutionary journey because that place has become all too familiar. I always thought that it is only at this time that the need to move towards the polarity point comes into action, as in only after having overstayed somewhere. I totally understand why outmoded patterns need to be left behind, by moving towards the polarity point, but is there such a thing as patterns that have not yet become outmoded?

Since the birth chart is a map of the desire nature at a given point in the evolutionary journey, and since in order to cooperate with the evolutionary intent the polarity points of the planets need to be embraced, would that imply that all the desires that are represented in the birth chart are of a separating nature? This seems rather extreme, but then again, if all separating desires had been exhausted prior to the current lifetime, there would have been no need for the Soul to reincarnate another time around, right?

At a certain point we get sick of something we previously loved.  The feeling becomes "been there done that". 

But happens before that certain point? Between the moment of getting somewhere and the moment when it is time to go somewhere else? Since presumably there have been evolutionary reasons for getting to that somewhere in the first place, when is time allowed for developing the lessons of that particular point in evolution if at the very time of getting there, there is already a polarity point to embrace?

What I am trying to say is this: is there a time when it is ok to say “I just got here. There’s no need for me to go anywhere just right now” ? Or is that indicative of an early form of resistance to the evolutionary intent? Would that sort of reasoning amount to asking for a break from the evolutionary intent and making excuses for refusing to continue on the evolutionary path or would it represent a legitimate need to develop and integrate the lessons of that particular point of the journey?

Since the only time when the polarity point is not applicable is when Pluto is conjunct the NN, would it be correct to say that this would represent the only situation when it is ok to reason along the lines described above?

And finally one last question about the situation when Pluto is conjunct the NN. Does this mean that there is no polarity point for any of the other planets in the chart as well?

All the best,

Serban

P.S. Thank you so very much, Steve for all your kind thoughts and encouragement. I cannot even begin to tell you how much this means to me.
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serban_p
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 01, 2010, 03:17 PM »

Steve, Ari,

I was wondering if you have any more thoughts on the above. Also, you might use this opportunity to take a break from the discussions going on in the sesquiquadrate thread  Wink

All the best,

Serban
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Steve
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 01, 2010, 05:39 PM »

Hi Serban

I always pictured the evolutionary path in terms of getting to a point, staying there for as long as it is necessary to learn the lessons of that place (since these lessons are the reason why it was necessary to get to that point in the first place) and then somehow refusing to move forward along the evolutionary journey because that place has become all too familiar. I always thought that it is only at this time that the need to move towards the polarity point comes into action, as in only after having overstayed somewhere. I totally understand why outmoded patterns need to be left behind, by moving towards the polarity point, but is there such a thing as patterns that have not yet become outmoded?

Since the birth chart is a map of the desire nature at a given point in the evolutionary journey, and since in order to cooperate with the evolutionary intent the polarity points of the planets need to be embraced, would that imply that all the desires that are represented in the birth chart are of a separating nature? This seems rather extreme, but then again, if all separating desires had been exhausted prior to the current lifetime, there would have been no need for the Soul to reincarnate another time around, right?

But happens before that certain point? Between the moment of getting somewhere and the moment when it is time to go somewhere else? Since presumably there have been evolutionary reasons for getting to that somewhere in the first place, when is time allowed for developing the lessons of that particular point in evolution if at the very time of getting there, there is already a polarity point to embrace?

What I am trying to say is this: is there a time when it is ok to say “I just got here. There’s no need for me to go anywhere just right now” ? Or is that indicative of an early form of resistance to the evolutionary intent? Would that sort of reasoning amount to asking for a break from the evolutionary intent and making excuses for refusing to continue on the evolutionary path or would it represent a legitimate need to develop and integrate the lessons of that particular point of the journey?

Since the only time when the polarity point is not applicable is when Pluto is conjunct the NN, would it be correct to say that this would represent the only situation when it is ok to reason along the lines described above?

I think the issue you are having in trying to understand this is your feeling that when you arrive at a new place you are supposed to be there and this means that everything stands still until it becomes outmoded and you are no longer supposed to be there.  That perspective is overlooking some realities of life.

I will give you the example of spring turning to summer.  (I am using a northern hemisphere example.  If you are in the southern hemisphere change my dates by 6 months). Most of us, I suspect, wouldn't mind if it stayed late June and early July about three times longer than it does.  None the less it doesn't.  Evolution is progressive, day by day.  Before you know it, it is late July and then early August.  The days are getting shorter.  The very seasonal change, day by day, itself is moving us forward, because the environment beneath our feet is changing before our eyes.  The change from today to tomorrow, and tomorrow to the following day, is almost imperceptible. But if you take the daily change that occurs over 6 or 8 weeks, it is quite perceptible.  

Nothing in life ever stays the same.   The ascendant moves one degree every four minutes.   From what I see, the moon moves one degree about every hour and 30 to 40 minutes.  They appear to be constant but they are not.

What you refer to is beautifully described in the EA material on the cycles of phases and aspects.  That every circle/cycle has its own inherent meanings reasons and evolutionary intents. And these progressively play out over the course of the cycle, moment by moment, not all at once.  (That is why there IS a cycle.  Otherwise it would all happen at the same time.) Even the seasons really are the phases of the Sun at the Aries point and its phasal relationship to the transiting Sun. That is why to me it makes a great example, because we can correlate astro theory with physical events we have all experienced life long.  The same principle we can recognize at work in that example also applies to all the inner cycles going on within us.

There are archetypes associated with all the points along the circle, the natural steps or behavioral tendencies that are going to occur when cycles reach certain points.  The patterns of resistance and cooperation are built into the archetypes.  (Of course we have choice over whether we will resist or cooperate.  But most of us, until we start figuring this out from inside ourselves, that we can then make new choices, operate instinctually by repeating our pre-existing patterns, based on very familiar past decisions).  

As you start looking at it this way, you start to realize that the idea that you are in something new and you are supposed to stay there until it becomes outmoded is in fact true.  But its not that everything is fine and then one day it is outmoded.  The progress through the changes proceeds moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day, week by week, month by month, etc.  At every moment, even from the beginning of the new phase of the cycle, there are things we need to release from.    

New Phase is experiential.  Right away we are going to try some new things that we then decide aren't right or didn't work.  So we stop doing those things right away, right in the new phase.  Thus we are shedding even as we are learning something new.  Through trial and error we (hopefully) get better at it and closer to the ideal.  The intended times of major sheddings, at end points, culminations, are when a whole bunch has to get dropped at once.  But in every moment we can be dropping something and initiating something else.  Endless endings and beginnings, or Involution and Evolution, as Jeffrey used to put it.  Something has to die, no matter how infinitesimal, before something new can be born.   That is just how life works - that is what EA calls Natural Law, in action.  Death - rebirth is the way of life.  And death-rebirth is a core Pluto archetype, thus the evolution of the Soul through that process.

The whole thing is a PROCESS.  Trying to hang on to the present is quite like trying to make time stop in early July for a month or two.  We might like that but its not going to happen.  On the other hand, we can get away with pretending for a while that is happening.  We can convince ourselves it is happening. But that doesn't mean it is.

If I convince myself something is happening that isn't (it's still early July) sooner or later I am going to experience evidence in my life that is not what is happening.  The more I dig in and believe it is happening when evidence is showing me its not, the more painful the day of reckoning is going to be when the belief finally blows up in my face for good. That is usually about the time we start talking about how unfair and cruel life is, when what I passionately believed turns out to not be aligned with the way "reality" has unfolded. (Does this sound at all familiar in terms of how we live our lives about things other than believing I am making it stay early July for 6 weeks?)  Does that mean there is something unfair in life, or that I have let myself believe that the way that life works is different than the way it actually works?

Quote
And finally one last question about the situation when Pluto is conjunct the NN. Does this mean that there is no polarity point for any of the other planets in the chart as well?

No, it doesn't mean that at all.

Quote
P.S. Thank you so very much, Steve for all your kind thoughts and encouragement. I cannot even begin to tell you how much this means to me.

the feeling is mutual
Steve
« Last Edit: Dec 01, 2010, 07:25 PM by Steve » Logged

serban_p
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 02, 2010, 02:32 AM »

Thank you, Steve for taking the time to write that. It's beautifully written and precisely answers my questions.

All the best,

Serban
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serban_p
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 09, 2010, 03:43 AM »

Ari,

I was re-reading what you wrote and I would like to ask something.

Rather, the polarity point, for any planet, serves as the integration for the intent implied by that natal planet.

Does it make any difference if a planet in the birth chart is: (A) conjunct the NN; or (B) conjunct the SN, but the SN is the resolution node of skipped steps. Or does the rule you mentioned apply regardless of such conditions?

All the best,

Serban
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ari moshe
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 09, 2010, 10:09 AM »

Hi Serban

Quote
Does it make any difference if a planet in the birth chart is: (A) conjunct the NN;

This implies that that function has been developed prior to this life, and the intent is to continue in that direction. Jeff Green taught that in such a case when Pluto is conj the nn, the polarity point does not apply. Intuitively to me, the same principal would apply for all planets. I'd like someone else to confirm that though...

I know of no other cases where the principal of polarity is not applicable. When a planet is on the south node which is also the resolution node for a skipped step there is most definitely a polarity point for that planet.

God bless,
Ari Moshe



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serban_p
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 10, 2010, 12:52 PM »

Hi Ari,

Jeff Green taught that in such a case when Pluto is conj the nn, the polarity point does not apply. Intuitively to me, the same principal would apply for all planets. I'd like someone else to confirm that though...

I think so too, but it would indeed be reassuring if someone confirmed it.

I know of no other cases where the principal of polarity is not applicable

Does this mean that the polarity point would apply for a planet that is in opposition to Pluto, i.e. conjunct the PPP?

When a planet is on the south node which is also the resolution node for a skipped step there is most definitely a polarity point for that planet.

My question looks so silly to me now, but I got carried away by the discussion in another thread and ended up posting the question without fully considering the issue.

All the best,

Serban
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Rad
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 10, 2010, 02:05 PM »

Hi Ari,

"This implies that that function has been developed prior to this life, and the intent is to continue in that direction. Jeff Green taught that in such a case when Pluto is conj the nn, the polarity point does not apply. Intuitively to me, the same principal would apply for all planets. I'd like someone else to confirm that though..."

***********************

Yes, it is true. But we also need to remember that all signs have their natural polarity within them. And it is this inner polarity within the sign that allows for an evolution to occur within that sign. Like we can have the Pluto in Libra on the N.Node of Libra and there is no polarity to develop there, yet within Libra there is it's natural polarity: Aries.

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 10, 2010, 05:14 PM »

Thanks Rad,

The question then arises, given that any sign contains within itself its natural polarity- then what is the meaning of saying "the polarity point does not apply for pluto on the nn"?
God bless,
Ari Moshe
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serban_p
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 16, 2010, 10:49 AM »

Hi Ari, Rad,

The question then arises, given that any sign contains within itself its natural polarity- then what is the meaning of saying "the polarity point does not apply for pluto on the nn"?

I was wondering if you have any more thoughts on the above. If a planet is in a sign, but does not have a polarity point, even though as Rad said any sign contains its natural polarity within it, what does this mean in terms of the dynamics that need to be embraced with respect to that planet in order for evolution to proceed?

All the best,

Serban
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Rad
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 16, 2010, 11:02 AM »

Hi Ari and Serban,

 It is very simple. What JWG taught in relation to this is when Pluto is conjunct the N.Node that the Soul has already been working on these evolutionary dynamics so symbolized, and is meant to continue in that evolutionary development. There is no polarity point BY HOUSE as would be the case in all other conditions with Pluto in the natal chart. All planets, including Pluto, have their natural polarities within them that serve by the nature of the archetype itself, the sign, that allows for a natural evolution to proceed.

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 16, 2010, 11:36 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for your response.

Just to be sure I understand what has been said so far about the polarity points of planets other than Pluto (here, and in the Neptune square thread), can you please let me know if I am mistaking by saying that there is no polarity point by house for:

a)   the ruler of the NN (assuming that no skipped steps exist);

b)   a planet conjunct the NN (assuming that no skipped steps exist);

c)   the ruler of the resolution node, whether SN or NN, if skipped exist in the chart;

In all cases, whether a polarity point by house exists or not, any planet (Pluto or another planet), whether in one of the three conditions described above or not, needs to integrate the sign opposite to the sign it is in, in order to evolve its natal position.

Are there any other situations when there is no polarity point by house? In particular, does this apply to:

(i)   a planet conjunct the PPP;

(ii)   a planet conjunct the NN if skipped steps exist and NN is the resolution node

(iii)   a planet conjunct the NN if skipped steps exist, but the NN is not the resolution node ?


All the best,

Serban

P.S. Apologies if my questions seem redundant, but I really want to fully understand this issue.


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Rad
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 16, 2010, 12:15 PM »

All,

 In NO conditions within the birth chart does any polarity point apply other than the polarity point of Pluto that needs to be consciously embraced, desire, for the evolution of the Soul to continue. And the one exception to that as Wolf taught is when the natal Pluto is conjunct the N.Node. Even then there is a natural polarity within the sign that Pluto is in natally that NATURALLY is evolved towards via the natural law of polarities. And it is this natural polarity within the sign of a natal Pluto that then correlates the evolution of an entire generation on Earth, and why any given generation is on Earth at any point in time.

 Every sign has a natural polarity within it that serves as the evolution within that sign because of it's natural polarity. Thus, as the Soul evolves, makes a choice to evolve, which is symbolized by it's opposite house and sign, and in the case of Pluto conjunct the N.Node, by sign, and the location of the planetary ruler of that N.Node, the aspects that it is making, this then CAUSES the rest of the entire birth chart to also evolve. It's automatic.

 So all those natural polarities that exist within the signs that the planets are in, in any birth chart, automatically are evolved towards. It is a function of evolution. The degree of evolution is dependent of course on the choices that the Soul makes in any given life relative to it's core evolutionary signature which is symbolized by natal Pluto, the S.Node and it's planetary ruler, the polarity point of Pluto, and the N.Node and it's planetary ruler.

 Every natal planet in a sign also has a natural polarity point by house: i.e. Mars in Scorpio in the 7th House would have a natural polarity of not only Taurus within Scorpio, but the 1st House as the polarity to the 7th. These natural polarity points by House are also automatically evolved towards once the Soul has made a choice to evolve which, again, is symbolized by the main EA paradigm.

 It is because these natural polarities within the signs and houses that naturally evolve, once the Soul has made a choice to evolve, that JWG never really taught about them. He did so because there do in fact naturally evolve in this way. He did this intentionally so as not to create such an overwhelming amount of evolutionary procedures that could potentially confuse students, but of course overwhelm any given client. It is enough to know the core EA paradigm, how it works, and how to apply it to one's life. The rest of these natural evolutionary points take care of themselves.

 Over his long career JWG only once, to my knowledge, taught about these other polarity points of the planets, and the houses they are in. And that is in a long workshop he held in Holland called "From Karma to Dharma'.

God Bless, Rad

 
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