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Author Topic: Phases & aspects [began as Sesquiquadrate 135 Degree]  (Read 16064 times)
ari moshe
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« Reply #60 on: Dec 03, 2010, 08:47 pm »

Hi Upasika,

Quote
  Relative speeds of the planets/points...
ASCENDANT, MIDHEAVEN
Moon
Mercury
Venus
Mars
Vesta
Juno
Ceres
Pallas
Jupiter
South Node, North Node
Saturn
Chiron
Uranus
Neptune
Pluto
Sun

You may want to delete the part in red as we have concluded that such information is not relevant to determining phasal relationships in any case.
Ari Moshe
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Upasika
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« Reply #61 on: Dec 03, 2010, 10:40 pm »

Hi Ari,

I dont see anything in red..??

Also not sure why it would be good to delete anything, as its necessary to detemine the slower moving planet before counting.

Also, in the method I outlined it is based on knowing what the faster moving planet is, including the Nodes, and since Steve suggested to leave that post, then this table naturally goes with it.

... not sure what you're suggesting..

Upasika
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ari moshe
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« Reply #62 on: Dec 03, 2010, 10:47 pm »

Hi Upasika, I meant the "South node, North node"

Well I'll let Steve chime in on that then!
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Stacie
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« Reply #63 on: Dec 04, 2010, 02:59 am »

Thought it would be useful to add lucifer to the list.

Lucifer's orbital period is 4.93 yrs....follows pallas on the handy list.  Upasika, would you might adding this for us?

Stacie
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Steve
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« Reply #64 on: Dec 04, 2010, 04:16 am »

Hi Ari

I think this thread makes a lot of sense continuing as it has, all in one.  What about changing the name of the thread to expand its scope and staying with what we've started.  We could call it something like Phases: Sesquiquadrate 135 Degrees and more

One reason is there's an energy going here in this thread which is likely to be dissipated if we split it apart.

What do you think?
Steve

Hi All,
I'm actually noticing 3 threads taking place in this one.

I sense it would be a good idea to divide it. I think your question Lucius is good for a new thread, why not?

A few days ago I posted a thread providing guidance for determining the phasal relationship between planets- not sure if its a helpful description, but that may be a place to move this discussion...
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,361.msg5814.html#msg5814

An idea came to me which is to start discussing the aspects in depth. To start a thread for each aspect, in the way that we are doing with the signs. In the same way that we started with Virgo, it makes sense to start with the gibbous phase sesquiquadrate (associated with Virgo).

Steve or another moderator, what do you say about tri-secting this thread and continuing to explore the sesquisquare?
Ari Moshe
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Dhyana
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« Reply #65 on: Dec 04, 2010, 09:56 am »

I tried again--
Start at Saturn go ANTI clockwise bc Saturn moves slower than the Moon.
Saturn at 23 Pisces (I rounded up) and Moon at 7 (rounded up) Leo.
If Moon was at 23 Virgo, it would be 180 degrees. So I know it is going to be less than 180 degrees.
If it would be 180 degrees at 23 Virgo, then I would have to subtract this 23, right?
180-23=157
THis is as far as I got??
And I dont think it is right?

Well, if it is correct, then it's 157 .
Is it correct?
I look on the list and there is nothing at 157.
The closest to 157 is 154.29 Gibbous Tri Septile.

(and do I still have to do something with the 7 degrees of the Moon? How do I figure in the degree of the Moon from that equation)

Ugh, I know this isnt right-- Tongue

Dhyana
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Dhyana
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« Reply #66 on: Dec 04, 2010, 10:20 am »

Instead I counted tic marks and it was 137 -- is this correct?

My other question is- are we to find the phases between any and everything, or just those things that are already in aspect?

Thanks Again.
« Last Edit: Dec 04, 2010, 10:32 am by Dhyana » Logged
Wendy
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« Reply #67 on: Dec 04, 2010, 10:31 am »

I tried again--
Start at Saturn go ANTI clockwise bc Saturn moves slower than the Moon.
Saturn at 23 Pisces (I rounded up) and Moon at 7 (rounded up) Leo.
If Moon was at 23 Virgo, it would be 180 degrees. So I know it is going to be less than 180 degrees.
If it would be 180 degrees at 23 Virgo, then I would have to subtract this 23, right?

Hi Dhyana,

Okay 23 Virgo.  Now subtract 23 from Virgo to get to 23 Leo, then subtract 23 Leo from 7 Leo.  The difference is 16.  So 23 from 180 = 157 - 16 = equals 141.  The relationship between Saturn 23 Pisces and Moon 7 Leo is three degrees from a Biqunitile in the Disseminating Phase and six degrees from a Sesquiquadrate.  

Also I always look at the chart when I am counting, this way I can double check while I'm calculating.

You're almost there Grin!!!

Peace & Love,
Wendy


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Dhyana
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« Reply #68 on: Dec 04, 2010, 10:37 am »




Hi Dhyana,
 

...Also I always look at the chart when I am counting, this way I can double check while I'm calculating.


Hi Wendy--

What chart do you always look at when your counting?

Thanks so much,
Dhyana
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Wendy
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« Reply #69 on: Dec 04, 2010, 11:54 am »

Hi Dhyana,

Whatever chart I am calculating, plus the phasal chart from Steve.  There's one from someone else too, but don't recall now.  Even when I was doing the calculations for your Saturn-Moon, I looked at the astro wheel (my chart) to see the numbers/signs.  Somehow that helps me keep on track.

Hope this helps.

WEndy

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Steve
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« Reply #70 on: Dec 04, 2010, 12:25 pm »

are we to find the phases between any and everything, or just those things that are already in aspect?

Hi Dhyana

This answer is based on how you worded your question. As far as EA methodology is concerned, you don't have to find the phases between anything.  It's all completely optional.

The whole point of the phases material in EA is, as was written in Pluto Vol 2, that everything in creation is in a relationship with everything else in creation.  Phases, and within them aspects, are indicators of where in their cycles the two planets (or points or bodies) are in relationship to each other.  The sum total of all those relationships correlates to the sum total of the chart those relationships are appearing in.  

The issue is, there is way too much detail in all of that for almost anyone to be able to take in and assimilate. There are limits to what we can handle.  Thus, Jeffrey laid out what he called "key planetary pairs".  Those are the ones that he felt revealed the most to the EA astrologer.  Thus I suggest concentrating on them, at least in the beginning of learning phases.  This is not to be taken as some form of gospel - you don't have to do it this way.  Its a suggested starting point, at least while learning the system.  Each astrologer is going to find planetary combinations that are especially significant, or insignificant to them, and as they go along they should follow their intuition on this.

The whole point of the cycle of phases and aspects, as opposed to the way typical astrology is taught most of the time, is that whether or not there is an aspect between two bodies, they are still in relationship to each other.  The aspects represent Gateway Points, where either the past meeting the future tends to create stress, as its a time when we are intended to move forward into yet another unknown, or, in the case of harmonious aspects like trines and sextiles, a point of fruition, where all the hard work we have been doing reaches a pinnacle and we get to experience the fruits from our labors for a while.  (The ending of those fruition periods tends to be some of the more difficult periods to release from.  Who wants to go from a time when things are almost magically working back into a time of stress and having to face more things?)

The spaces between aspects are the times when we are simply in the evolutionary learning periods.  This is akin to my description from the other day to Serban about how the movement of the seasons from one day to the next is barely perceptible. Yet it is still going on, the proof being that it inevitably reaches the next seasonal change point.  Those seasonal change points are the four squares in the chart, and the day to day movement towards them is like the times when two bodies in the chart are not within orb of an aspect.  The shifting that is then going on between them is the necessary work/changes that lead to their next entrance into the orb of an aspect.

Here are the key planetary pairs that Jeffrey taught, in the order in which he taught them:
Sun / Moon - "the need in all people to actualize the inherent purpose for their life on a day to day basis, to give that purpose a face and image, a way of personally identifying itself, Moon. It describes how the person continuously is integrating them self on a moment to moment, second to second, year to year basis."

Moon / Saturn - "your ability to integrate your ego, your personal identity, who you are within the context of the social systems and/or culture, Saturn, in which you find yourself. The ability to establish your own authority within the authority of the culture."

Mars / Venus - "How one completes oneself through relationships"

Mercury / Jupiter - "how one establishes her beliefs, her principles, her philosophies, and creates the necessary intellectual apparatus to explain them, to communicate them"

Jupiter / Saturn - "Jupiter correlates to your beliefs and how they are in harmony or disharmony with the consensus belief patterns of the culture you are in thus, impacting your ability to economically survive. The economic issue relative to philosophy is obvious. The Jupiter/Saturn cycle has a 20-year life...".
  
Saturn / Uranus - "This is the most important cycle. It has a 48-year life and comes to maturity every 22 years to 24 years after its conjunction. It establishes the social tone, structure, every 48 years. The new social impulse, order, structures.

For myself, I would add Mars / Pluto to that list, and put it at the top of the list.  This pair is described in detail in the Pluto Vol 2 book.

We can have discussion here about each of those key planetary pairs, if people would like that.

On a personal note, this topic of phases and aspects is dear to my heart.  It was inner realizations (that came through working with clients) about the nature of phases and aspects that led to some of my first big EA "aha" moments.  I'm not suggesting this will be a breakthrough area for every EA student.  I am saying the significance of phases and aspects is profound in one's deepening understanding of life in creation, far beyond just the systems called astrology.  

I rarely promote EA School products on this message board.  I will say here, the material on phases and aspects covered in Pluto Vol 2 is about 20 percent of what is in the printed phases and aspects transcript.  I'd call it invaluable for serious EA students.  The Cycles of Becoming workshop DVD covers 3.5 hours of similar material captured at a live workshop.  (Its fine to start with one.)
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #71 on: Dec 04, 2010, 12:29 pm »

Hi Steve
Quote
Hi Ari

I think this thread makes a lot of sense continuing as it has, all in one.  What about changing the name of the thread to expand its scope and staying with what we've started.  We could call it something like Phases: Sesquiquadrate 135 Degrees and more

One reason is there's an energy going here in this thread which is likely to be dissipated if we split it apart.

What do you think?

I think that sounds good reasoning.
AM
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Upasika
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« Reply #72 on: Dec 04, 2010, 03:06 pm »

Popped Lucifer in there Stacie ...
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Steve
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« Reply #73 on: Dec 04, 2010, 06:23 pm »

Hi Upasika, I meant the "South node, North node"

Well I'll let Steve chime in on that then!

Hi Ari
I don't see any need to remove the table of the relative speeds of the planets/bodies/points in space.  That could be helpful to some people.  As long as its clearly stated that is not considered in calculating phases to nodes.  Its very much considered in determining phases to planets etc.  Since we have expanded the range of this topic to general issues about phases and aspects, it seems helpful to have it there.  My initial concern was only that people not get confused.   I'm pretty sure we have addressed that now.  Do you agree?
thanks
Steve
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #74 on: Dec 05, 2010, 01:22 am »

Hi Steve,

Quote
Since we have expanded the range of this topic to general issues about phases and aspects, it seems helpful to have it there.  My initial concern was only that people not get confused.   I'm pretty sure we have addressed that now.  Do you agree?

Well I agree that it makes sense to keep the relative speeds of planets up there as that helps as a starting point for determining the phases. However to put the nodes in there, in between Saturn and Jupiter, seems to communicate that knowing the relative speed of the lunar nodes is necessary in order to determine phases involving the nodes and other points.

My feeling is, it's ok to put that up there, however there should be some sort of asterisk or clarification stating that the speed of the lunar nodes has absolutely no relevance in determining any phase with any celestial body.

Otherwise, I think its valuable to know how quickly the nodes move. No data is innately irrelevant or meaningless. However, no matter which system you use for determining phases (start with the planet and move clockwise, or start with the node and move counter clockwise), because the mean motion of the lunar nodes is retro, knowing their relative speed is irrelevant for determining phasal relationships.
Ari Moshe
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