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Author Topic: 4 planets square the Nodes  (Read 3636 times)
Rad
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 13, 2011, 10:17 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

 First, it's wonderful that Linda and Wendy have involved themselves in this thread, and making the effort to apply the EA that we have been learning.

 I don't have much time today due to a heavy work load but will say this so that hopefully it will give you a foothold to keep going. First, the reasons for the traumas, which have all preceded the current life, have occurred because this is a Soul that has disparately been wanting to keep 'reality' in a tight little box that she could have complete control over. And in that box was a reality that needed to shut out the totality of life where the totality of life equals all the ugliness that life can be. Many lives like that which were themselves preceded by some truly horrific lives/ traumas that then lead to the compensatory lives in which this box of control was created to blot out anything of an ugly or unpleasant nature. The image that flew into your consciousness Dhyana of one of her past lives/ trauma was correct. The son that she has in which she can not understand the why of his rebellious behavior is the symbol for her own unresolved traumas, and a symbol of that which is beyond the boundary's of her box of control. So, of course, from an EA point of view WHY this type of son ?

 I need to say this too: In cases like these it is very important to simply follow the lead of the client, and to only go where they want to go. It is not our job as EA people to force into anyone's consciousness that which they are not prepared to receive. Here on this mb we can of course unravel and see the truth of any given Soul through the lens of EA. But that is for us here. So the issue now for this women that you are working with is to simply answer the questions she is asking you. If in the course of interacting with her in the context of her questions, and the answers that you have for her, this naturally leads to deeper questions as the to 'why' of something it becomes necessary in her nature, the S.Node in Sagittarius, the 9th House planets, to pose Socratic type questions that have the answers contained within them. By posing such questions, and leaving it as questions, if she then wants to privately ponder those questions honestly then the answers will occur within her in her own natural time.

 There are deep, deep reasons and causes that have lead to her own desire to create the box of control that has lead to just wanting life to be ok, NORMAL ! The box has been created as a form of Soul survival that can allow her to carry on in the ways that she does. This is also one of the great reasons that God/ess has placed a veil within the consciousness of most that does not allow them to see the past lives that they have lived. If most could do that they simply could not carry on with the business of the current life that they are living. So we must be very, very aware of this Natural Law so as to not transgress it in a way that could harm another. So, again, just follow her lead.

God Bless, Rad
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Wendy
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 13, 2011, 10:41 AM »

Thanks Rad for highlighting what is most important to each soul we interact with via astrology in any form.  I appreciate the reminder and to always care for each being we relate with in mindfulness and respect--to meet them where they are without attempting to change them.

Blessings,
Wendy
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Linda
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« Reply #17 on: Jan 13, 2011, 02:42 PM »

Thanks Rad for your guidelines in how to deal with clients, not to push them further than they are able to go, so that we don't transgress Natural Law, the veil placed over the traumatic events of past lives.

We now understand the reasons why this woman comes across as jovial and joy-filled all the time - for that is her way of coping - by naturally blocking out the traumatic past - and maintaining a tight 'box of control.'  

I feel that Mars and Uranus in very late balsamic conjunction to Pluto means surrendering those past violent events and traumas of the Soul to the Divine - to let go of them completely - and not to reawaken them - for that cycle is ending - and her Soul is getting ready for a new one.  

She does want to understand her son's behaviour though because he is so 'different.'  The question is: Why this type of son?  How can we serve her in the way that she needs?  How do we pose Socratic-type questions that have the answers contained within them, bearing in mind that her son is the symbol for her unresolved traumas?


Added later:

The Socratic method:  Socratic questioning is a series of systematic, deep and disciplined questions which are posed to help a person to determine their underlying beliefs, and the validity of their beliefs, so as to assess their meaning, truth, or plausibility.  Asking questions is used instead of lecturing and telling.

Socratic questioning has also been used in cognitive and psychotherapy.  The purpose here is to help uncover the assumptions and evidence that underpin people's thoughts in respect of problems.  Careful use of Socratic questioning enables a therapist to challenge a person's illogical thinking while maintaining an open position that respects the internal logic to even the most seemingly illogical thoughts.

Examples of Socratic critical questioning:

1.  To clarify their thinking:   "Why do you say that?" - "Could you explain further?"

2.  Challenging their assumptions:  "Is this always the case?" - "Why do you think that this assumption holds here?"

3.  Evidence as a basis for argument:  "Why do you say that?" - "Is there reason to doubt this evidence?"

4.  Alternative viewpoints and perspectives:  "What is the counter argument for?" - "Can you see this another way?"

5. Implications and consequences:  "But if what happened, what else would result?" - "How does...affect...?"

6. Question the question:  "Why do you think that I asked that question?" - "Why was that question important?" - "Which of your questions turned out to be the most useful?"
« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2011, 04:24 PM by Linda » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #18 on: Jan 13, 2011, 03:55 PM »

Thank you Wendy, for writing all of that. Linda, well--for everything!

And Rad, I have to really just sit with what you said for a couple hours before I write anything. I just wanted to say thank you very much. What you wrote nearly brought me to tears (for many reasons).

This woman has really connected with me and is giving me her trust --I can feel that.. so I must be very careful. Rad, if you might say a little more about what might be best to focus on with her, I would really appreciate that. I had already shared with her about her son's chart. Her difficult experience with her son is why she intially approached me for support (she attend my mothers Unity Center and my mom referred her to me.) She was so very greatful after I shared with her about her son. She said she saw him in an entirely new light and felt so much compassion for him after what I shared with her about him. It was bc she felt so moved by what I shared with her son, that she now is asking I do the charts of her and all her family members (her husband and other son).

So, with that said, maybe you can support me in knowing the best way to support her and her family through the EA paradign.  And yes, I will follow her lead...

more after i sit with this much...

All Love To You,
Dhyana

ADDED LATER- Chart of one of her sons (the "difficult one"). (This is the chart of the son, I already shared with the mom about.) My feeling is that in looking at his chart through the lens of "him being a reflection of her unmet traumas" may shed even more light. Also, if you look at the transit's you can see why the mother is stimulated to seek out support at this time. It is really fascinating -- the synchronistic nature of things... My goodness, astrology truly does CORRELATE so beautifully


* astro_2gw_87_son_no_name_young_male_ho.1407.24535.gif (112.65 KB, 748x1102 - viewed 123 times.)
« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2011, 06:50 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #19 on: Jan 13, 2011, 04:08 PM »

Linda, and Wendy,

I am now slowly reading over what you posted. I only read it once so far, and it takes me a couple reads before I absorb. So I will be responding soon to those. I am just letting Rad's response settle in first.

So Grateful for all this support,
Dhyana
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Katlil
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« Reply #20 on: Jan 13, 2011, 06:20 PM »



          I have no clients or anything, but my daily life with its different connections. Still it feels really,
          really valuable and healing to read about this treading gently & careful, with consideration and
          respect.

          Need to be constantly reminded of this, both in relation to myself (including asking for it, for my-
          self/boundaries) and others. Very uplifting and comforting
       
          Thank you Rad, and all Contributors here..

          Katlil/Katrin
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Dhyana
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« Reply #21 on: Jan 13, 2011, 06:33 PM »

Katill,
I hear ya!

Lovingly,
Dhyana
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Dhyana
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« Reply #22 on: Jan 14, 2011, 01:48 AM »

The list of questions you posted Linda are very helpful and I certainly got a better idea of what Rad was saying with your posting those. I thnk you for the effort you put into doing so.

It is really amazing how this thread, and what Rad posted penetrated on many levels.
It seems, as I look at the comments I was certainly not the only one to feel that!


With a SN in Scorpio in the 9th Conj, Mercury and Neptune, and a 7th house Pluto, etc etc, I have spent a lot of my time in this life prodding people in my life to meet the deeper, darker, traumatic, heavy etc. things they never even invited me to prod them towards. I thought because I saw /felt them,I had to do something with it... with what I saw/felt -- Like it was my duty to do something with it.  Wow.
...I am just like sitting here and this has gone in pretty deep....

This thread had a very profound effect on me and I am now really just sitting here without something I thought I had, and I did not even realize what I was doing with what thought I had, which is the funny thing! It is not "mine" to use any way I please!  This is very liberating, yet at the same time I am going through a sort of adjustment to what just happened.

The other thing is this... I too have the Pluto/Mars/Uranus in Virgo opposing Saturn conj Chiron in the 1st (and part of 2nd house) in Pisces -- and although those particular planets do not sqaure my Nodes, I know that there is an energy to that combination that when the lid comes off that pandora's box, you need a real foothold in that which we come from, Source,Creator, God/Goddess/Self.. whatever we want to call it, bc there are times that madness can come in--truly, I know this from direct experience. So when Rad wrote that I just... well, I just had to stop there -- I recognized it! I was stopped in my tracks there. I know directly what he is saying there... But he also brought something home to me there!

I have not been able to concentrate on this chart, or to comment more today about this specifics there-in bc I feel like some kind of integrating adjusment is happening inside.

I am really not sure now what is  to share and what is not.... and in this case, with this woman. I will have to ask her specifically what she wants to understand. I will do that.

Thanks for listening. Goodnite. Shall check in tommorow as this all settles in.

Peace, Compassion
 and Gratitude,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2011, 03:59 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #23 on: Jan 14, 2011, 07:28 PM »


Dear Rad,

I pulled out these 2 questions from LInda's post. I was hoping you might respond to them I know you have a heavy load of work, but it would be very helpful to hear your response to these, when you get the time.

Thank you,
Dhyana




I feel that Mars and Uranus in very late balsamic conjunction to Pluto means surrendering those past violent events and traumas of the Soul to the Divine - to let go of them completely - and not to reawaken them - for that cycle is ending - and her Soul is getting ready for a new one.  

She does want to understand her son's behaviour though because he is so 'different.'  The question is: Why this type of son?  How can we serve her in the way that she needs?  How do we pose Socratic-type questions that have the answers contained within them, bearing in mind that her son is the symbol for her unresolved traumas?



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Dhyana
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« Reply #24 on: Jan 14, 2011, 07:42 PM »

Rad,

Also, below I have quoted both Linda and Wendy.  Might you also comment on what they have shared --from my experience with the mother and her son, both Linda and Wendy seem right on to me.

Thank You,
Dhyana

LINDA WRITES:  "Saturn (9th) opposite Pluto/Uranus/Mars - cataclysmic, sudden, traumatic, extreme, evolutionary change through ideological crisis.  Pluto is forcing her to express the spiritual truth of natural laws to her own children (5th, Saturn's ruler is Neptune 5th, Mercury inconjuncts Neptune) which she doesn't feel ready to do, or is making excuses.

Uranus/Mars conjunct Pluto - balsamic - surrender to a higher will, the end of an evolutionary cycle.  Perhaps the crisis is:  "What shall I teach my own children? - the dictates of a distorted society for survival purposes, or natural laws for which faith and surrender are necessary?"  The ruler of Pluto, Uranus and Mars is Mercury/Aries/10th - mental trauma in public to speak the truth, and the failure bringing crisis then self-analysis, purification and change.

Pluto/Uranus/Mars squares the Nodes - she has missed these steps, which are being re-lived and resolved through the Resolution Node, NN Gemini 11th, by learning how to be a member of a group, by using discretion in her choice of communication, by daring to be different, or by allowing her children to express their differentness?  Not sure if this makes sense, but could the 11th house group be her own family?  Facilitator of the NN is Mercury/Aries/10th which itself is the ruler of Pluto - what she had learned from her father - the resolution to the skipped steps being to stop listening to that old voice of authority, and to express her own unique voice, and to accept the uniqueness of her own children?"

LINDA: (Re:5TH/11TH Nodes )"...And what are the skipped steps?  To communicate the truth of natural law to her own children in a natural intuitive way, and to allow her children free-expression in line with natural law?  Lucifer is conjunct Jupiter, does she feel a weakness to actually speak the truth?


What does Rad say?"


WENDY WRITES

"...Inconjunct Mercury-Neptune (10th-5th)...her challenge is to speak up and teach (9th house Saturn-Chiron) some form of healing-spirituality, or to become an authority on, or attain knowledge of those things, but before she can access her Saturn/Chiron (skipped step), she has to delve deep into her Pluto.  

She has done all of this in the past (four planets square the nodes).  See if you can find what makes her truly angry, that would reveal her deepest soul passions/desire/resentments (Mars/Pluto/Saturn).

Pluto Uranus retrograde individuals typically either want to goes to any lengths to get in touch with their soul, or they avoid it like the plague (that is my understanding).  


Also Saturn, missed step, is about taking responsibility for the soul, and it's many experiences and ultimately being empowered through teaching forgiveness, oneness (Pisces-knowing the almighty-the universe-the Goddess is in charge) via the lens of discernment (Virgo) applying the soul's inner knowing, knowledge, intuition and communicating that knowing in a logical, right brained fashion (Gemini), in an 11th house way (radical, awakening, shocking, transformational).

Added later....I would even go as far as saying--this soul, this woman--has brilliance and her knowledge was misused by the collective authorities (or she was one) which brought destruction to the masses!  Now she could use her brains and intuition to bring forth healing for her soul especially, as well as many others, if she accesses her trauma and PPP."



ATTACHED:  Chart of one of her sons (the "difficult one"). This is the chart of the son, I already shared with the mom about. My feeling is that in looking at his chart through the lens of "him being a reflection of her unmet traumas" may shed even more light. Also, if you look at the transit's you can see why the mother is stimulated to seek out support at this time. It is really fascinating -- the synchronistic nature of things... My goodness, astrology truly does CORRELATE so beautifully.


* astro_2gw_87_son_no_name_young_male_ho.1407.24535.gif (112.65 KB, 748x1102 - viewed 110 times.)
« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2011, 07:47 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #25 on: Jan 15, 2011, 10:30 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

 I don't have any time today or tomorrow but will come back on Monday. I would totally support you approach of not having her go into the prior life traumas, but would mention the fact that there have been a traumas in other lives, not being specific, that do account for some of her behavior in this life. This would include that one rebellious son. And, from there, talk about what her Soul is trying to accomplish in this life. At that point you can then list what those intentions and lessons are as symbolized in the EA paradigm in her chart. After you list them then simply follow her lead relative to what she herself wants to go into further. Whatever she may want to go into further then sets the stage, so to speak, for deeper examination that you can help lead her into by way of the Socratic type questioning.

 So, just to start off her consultation ask her, at the beginning, what she wants to know, what she wants from interacting with you about her chart.

 God Bless, Rad
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Dhyana
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« Reply #26 on: Jan 15, 2011, 07:12 PM »

Thank you Rad. That helps me move along.
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Dhyana
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« Reply #27 on: Jan 16, 2011, 03:24 AM »

PS   Rad,

I shall check back on Monday then.

You know, I must just thank you once again for that last post, Rad. As I said, it had a very profound effect on me. The value goes well beyond what I can even begin to say here.


Dhyana
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Wendy
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« Reply #28 on: Jan 16, 2011, 06:50 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

I wanted to clarify some of my comments since we haven't dialogued about them, I felt it best to be more specific.  My comments are in bold.  

WENDY WRITES
"...Inconjunct Mercury-Neptune (10th-5th)...her challenge is to speak up and teach (9th house Saturn-Chiron) some form of healing-spirituality, or to become an authority on, or attain knowledge of those things, but before she can access her Saturn/Chiron (skipped step), she has to delve deep into her Pluto.

I say this because Saturn is her polarity point (this is my level of understanding), and Pluto is the unconscious, where we have resistance.  The more conscious we are of our Pluto desires the more likely we are to embrace the PPP.

She has done all of this in the past (four planets square the nodes).  See if you can find what makes her truly angry, that would reveal her deepest soul passions/desire/resentments (Mars/Pluto/Saturn).

My suggestion to find what makes her angry was meant to learn more about her, definitely not to instigate or challenge her in any way.  I must be more mindful in how I state things.

Pluto Uranus retrograde individuals typically either want to goes to any lengths to get in touch with their soul, or they avoid it like the plague (that is my understanding).  


Also Saturn, missed step, is about taking responsibility for the soul, because Saturn is the PPP and it's many experiences and ultimately being empowered through teaching or believing in forgiveness, oneness (Pisces-knowing the almighty-the universe-the Goddess is in charge) via the lens of discernment (Virgo) applying the soul's inner knowing, knowledge, intuition and communicating that knowing in a logical, right brained fashion (Gemini), in an 11th house way (radical, awakening, shocking, transformational).

Added later....I would even go as far as saying--this soul, this woman--has brilliance and her knowledge was misused by the collective authorities (or she was one) which brought destruction to the masses!  Now she could use her brains and intuition to bring forth healing for her soul especially, as well as many others, if she accesses her trauma and PPP."

Blessings,
Wendy
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2011, 07:46 AM by Wendy » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #29 on: Jan 16, 2011, 06:04 PM »

Wendy,

Thank you for clarifying that. It was helpful to read how you came to that by way of seeing Saturn /PPP.

As far as the part you wrote about finding what makes her angry, I did already realize what you meant. However, it is still always helpful to clarify things.

Thanks for your earnest help with this chart and what you brought to this thread, in so doing.

Dhyana
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2011, 06:23 PM by Dhyana » Logged
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