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Author Topic: Chart Practice with Client Feedback: Stephen  (Read 6314 times)
stephen
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Posts: 155


« on: Jun 12, 2009, 05:45 PM »

Quote from: Rad
Hi Stephan,
Start a new thread with your chart posted in it.
Rad

   Thanks Rad for this learning opportunity.
Would you mind posting the chart?  (Then I know that it is right, and in the appropriate format.)

   To Anyone and Everyone who chooses to say ANYTHING AT ALL!!
Any input is welcome, and I will try to be as a responsive client with on topic feedback.
Thanks in advance for Anyone who has anything to say.

  Here is my data:
Birth information: Stephen; June 23, 1962; 1:20AM: Washington, DC, USA



Biographical information: White, raised with Roman Catholic conditioning in solid middle class upbringing; fifth (youngest boy) of seven children – three boys/four girls.  Father was a Government-employed (workaholic, alcoholic) engineer; Mother was an overstressed (withdrawn and anxious) homemaker.  Parents ruled with an iron fist, with no compromises.  Sunday Church was mandatory (as was Sunday School) and behavior there strictly enforced and infractions punished (at home).  A therapist once told me I was raised in a jail with very very mean guards.  However, on the surface, we kept up all appearances of a normal family.  Yet, inside that...there were extreme physical beatings and abuse by my parents, and there was psychological abuse and manipulation (playing one child off another), and I was sexually abused by male neighbor at 4 yrs (three sisters also sexually abused by our father); Family motto: ‘What goes on in the family, STAYS IN THE FAMILY!!”  Lips sealed So, no expectations of relief or release for us children.  I was never good enough, even with straight A's I was told to get A+'s (honestly!), and was beaten for having only straight A grades.  My father was especially hard on me...he told me I was special and would go far, but only if he was hard on me.  So, I learned, if it could be done, by me it needed to be overdone.  So, when I began to abuse myself, I did it even better than my parents and family members who taught me how.  (I never do anything right in my own opinion, no matter the level of success achieved.  I still face the constant dark shadow of that.)  However, from that youth, I am left with a self-professed very clever mind Wink and very strong ego.
   The rest of my brothers/sisters seem to be consensus, 1st or 2nd.
   I married at 23 to a 35yr old woman, we had two children, now 22yr girl and 18yr boy.  She was similar to my father, distant, manipulative and unaccepting, and I was withdrawn and unkind and perfectionist.  Divorced in 1999, and remarried to a ‘GreatHeart!’ (a bit of reward!).  One son with her, now 7yrs (an advanced Soul, I believe).  I currently work in network security.

Quote from: Rad
Please provide your own estimation of your Evolutionary stage, i.e. individuated, etc, and ask specific type questions as you can about what you want those on the message board to answer, i.e. 'what's my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime".

   As for Evolutionary Condition, I am not consensus, but I don’t know what my level is, I seem to (throughout my life) have fit much of the literature for various levels and conditions that I am reading on this site and in Deva’s book on that.  So, I readily admit to a confusion on that.  Maybe that could be the first part of this community exercise, in terms of ‘observe and correlate’ : the analysis from my life story of my condition?

Quote from: Rad

Provide too, if you feel comfortable, a little of your life experiences too for that provides 'context' for the EA astrologer to work with.


So, here is the tale of me as I know it.



   I have never been consensus reality oriented.  I never fit in as a child, and quit trying when in grade school.  (I now know that I fit the textbook description of "Asperger's Syndrom" although never formally diagnosed.)  When young, I heard/felt in my heart/mind/behind my knees a divine sound/hum of ‘immanence’ underneath/behind/within everything – now that is only memories of the memory.  I used to have ‘bubble-joy’ as a child, with just JOY at the beauty of the existence of it all, but that was beaten out of me.  I used to go to what as a child I called a Purple Plain, with undulating hills of purple, and skies of purple, and absolute serenity and peace.  Now, that seems but a dream of someone else’s dream.  I read enormously as child, and read and collected books on Tao and Zen in my teens.  I turned my back on Roman Catholicism when very young (maybe 6-7?, but was beaten when I told my parents, so I had to hide that fact ever after), and quit going to Mass when I finally moved out of my parent’s house (at 17).  Then, slowly turned inward, distrustful of others, and worked as a carpenter building houses, outside society…and began to abuse substances, studied martial arts for two decades (before and throughout and slightly after the first marriage) and quit reading.  Suddenly, one day, I found out my wife had a boy-friend, and thus, after my wife and I separated, I broke apart and my heart shattered in my chest, and I turned inward with a searchlight, and realized that I had studied martial arts to feel safe, and simultaneously realized I didn’t want to hit anyone anymore, and was also tired of being on the fringes of society (a big day, that!!), and so I quit martial arts, and started to massively read again.

   So, I joined the computer craze and moved into networking security (BIG mindset alteration required there, believe me!).  Then, met my wife, and remarried.  Been in security now 12yrs, but in the last few years, mindset change again, and it is just as a way to make money for my family and me (wrong economic situation to leave a stable job, really).  In the last few years, I have had dreams of past lives, and terrible feelings began to surface, and then, I had a vision of the birth of all Creation, the quick passage of ALL life into nothingness, and the final death of all Creation!!!  The meaninglessness of EVERYTHING weighed me down after that:  Since we all collapse into sameness, what does distinction matter?  So, at my new wife’s requests, finally I went to see a shaman/psychic team.  At first they seemed to be helping me.  After that, under their misguided encouragement, meditating on how we are each of us gods, my ego expanded into this state of supreme self-importance and arrogance, and I started writing...so I could teach everyone the way (my way Roll Eyes !) to enlightenment!

   After that, I was doing breath/chanting rituals early every morning, and I started picking up on other’s emotions, and then I started having trouble knowing which emotions were mine or were not mine, and being around people became a torture.  I would say, 'Stop feeling that...it is making me feel bad...'  But then, soon after that, everything got very very bad (I couldn’t sort out who I was from everyone else a lot of the time, due to the emotional antenna I had somehow become), and then in a thankful moment of clarity, I realized how truly stupid and angry and hurtful I was, and I decided very carefully on suicide.  So, I designed several clever methods of suicide, each of which would (cleverly) end with an insurance payment to my family.  (Did I mention that this mind/ego pair thinks that it is very clever!?! Wink )  But, then it got even worse for me (blackness, despair, meaninglessness, worthlessness, physical illnesses, meanness, etc.), and I wanted to not only kill my body, but my spirit.  So, I decided that when I went to the Astral Plane next I would demand that the Authority (Source, God'dess, whatever name you like) shred my spirit into nothingness, and I would experience an absolute Soul-death.  They would NOT be allowed to turn me down, since they would HAVE to respect my free will.  Well, since I was going to do that, suddenly nothing mattered.  So, I decided that I would stay alive until my natural death, as this would be my last life anyway, and I could do a SINGLE LIFE, yeah?, and it would be a kindness for my wife and children for me not to be found dead.

   However, the knowledge of my pending Soul-death made my day to day existence very stress-free, since absolutely nothing mattered, as my Soul would NOT have to endure another life, and I felt FREE of EVERYTHING, since soon I would exist no more!!  (round of applause for the cleverness of the mind/ego, eh!?! Wink )  But, soon THAT change led to seeing the overwhelming beauty of life once again, and the simple joys…of my family’s laughter, of a plant that I planted growing and flowering, of a sunset in the midst of birdsong in the woods…and I decided to fight for my Soul.  So, I quit the self-abuse like overnight! (well, ok, the physical and substance abuse, not the constant mental self-abuse), and began to journal, lost weight, got Reiki certifications - Level I and Level II and want to get the Master level (so that I can give Initiations to others) - and I began to meditate again, began to once again follow body detox procedures.  However, throughout that period and even now, I have horrible ‘fugues’ (as I call them), in which anxiety, despair, worthlessness, meaninglessness, fear, self-loathing, self-inflation, meanness, physical illnesses of various kinds, and many more emotions and sicknesses drown me into almost uselessness.  The times in the past…youthful feelings of immanence, beatings and abuse, carpentry, substance abuse, massive readings of long ago, ego-expansion and writings to ‘Save the World’, feeling-antenna ability, suicide, Soul-suicide…seem like a movie I once saw, which I can remember in pieces, but I don’t feel like I am any of those people that I was.  And, I have no idea any more who I am, really!! (Both freeing and very very scary!!  Well, ok, still more scary than freeing!)

   So, I work the job to feed us, and continually read, and then I discovered Astrology not too long ago, and in reading, read about the moon nodes, and wondered what about the other planetary nodes...?  So I searched - and found, bought, and read Zipporah Dobyn’s book on Planetary Nodes, which fascinated me, but was too little information.  (I love information. Wink )  Then, one day by chance, I was visiting a small town called 'New Hope' (no kidding!), and I luckily wandered into an old bookstore, and happened to pick up Measuring the Night Part I, and, since it had (some) more information on planetary nodes, I bought it.

And, it brought me here.  




(Is that too much information?)

So, what would be the Evolutionary Condition of my Soul, based on the above?  I wanted to be honest and complete, so an accurate picture can be drawn.  I can’t figure it out yet (not so clever after all, eh mind?), and don’t have any attachment to the outcome of that analysis one way or the other (its all good), but I would like to know so that I can learn to read my chart, then my family’s charts, then one day other’s charts.


questions:
  What is my current Evolutionary Condition?
  What are my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime?
  Any help on how to find the deeper source of me in order to heal the ‘fugues’, as they disable me and destroy my quality of life.


I would absolutely request clarity and honesty, and, not only do I not mind criticism, I actively seek it.  Why?  Because, my mind feels that it is very clever Roll Eyes , and my ego (for survival purposes as a child) is very powerful, and yet my Soul yearns for true information from outside sources that I can honestly work with!

My sincere thanks for any input that anyone has to offer!!


                                               May all who read this be thrice-blessed!!!



« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2009, 08:48 AM by stephen » Logged
Rad
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Most Active Member
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Posts: 22045


« Reply #1 on: Jun 13, 2009, 11:24 AM »

Hi All,
 Right now, from what Stephan has shared, I would estimate that he is well within the 3rd Stage Individuated, and knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual. Stephan is a new student to EA who is very sincere. I would like all of us to help address his very real Soul concerns and needs.
 Below are the planetary nodes for Stephan. Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn as you read through his shared biography. His Soul is on the edge of making tremendous Soul changes. Let's all try to give him a hand.

 Rad

Chart, with Planetary Nodes and major asteroids in outer wheel



*** PLANETARY NODES ***

 stephan - Natal Chart

Aspect Set: Standard Aspects - General Purpose
Aspects of Longitude

Vul Ascending Node  00°Cn28  Daily Travel +00°50'
   Opp    Ear   0°48' (S)      Cnj    Sun   0°48' (S)      Cnj    Vul   7°32' (A)
   Sxt    Ura   3°00' (A)      Cnj    Jun   5°21' (S)      Cnj    Cer   6°10' (S)
   Tri    Hyg   6°15' (S)      Sqr    Asc   6°00' (A)      Opp    MC   3°05' (A)
   Sqr    Vx   2°16' (A)      Sqr    EqA   3°45' (A)      Sqr    BMo   4°10' (A)
Vul Descending Node  02°Cn21  Daily Travel +01°07'
   Tri    Mon   5°32' (S)      Opp    Ear   1°05' (A)      Cnj    Sun   1°05' (A)
   Cnj    Vul   5°39' (A)      SSq    Mar   1°15' (S)      Cnj    Jun   3°28' (S)
   Cnj    Cer   4°17' (S)      Tri    Hyg   4°22' (S)      SSq    Ast   1°25' (S)
   Sqr    Asc   4°07' (A)      Opp    MC   1°12' (A)      Sqr    Vx   0°23' (A)
   Sqr    EqA   1°52' (A)      Sqr    BMo   6°03' (A)
Mer Ascending Node  21°Ge26  Daily Travel +00°45'
   Cnj    Mer   9°01' (A)      SSq    Ven   0°38' (S)      Sxt    Ast   2°40' (A)
   Sqr    BMo   4°52' (S)
Mer Descending Node  25°Cn34  Daily Travel +01°10'
   Sqq    Mon   2°41' (A)      SSq    Mer   1°51' (S)      Sqq    Jup   1°59' (S)
   SSq    Plu   2°45' (A)      Sqq    Chi   0°17' (A)      Sxt    Pal   3°14' (A)
   Cnj    PF   4°17' (A)      Sxt    BMo   0°44' (S)
Ven Ascending Node  25°Ge05  Daily Travel +00°34'
   Opp    Ear   6°11' (S)      Cnj    Sun   6°11' (S)      Sqq    Sat   0°30' (A)
   Sxt    Ura   2°22' (S)      Sqq    Nep   0°52' (A)      SSq    Nod   0°37' (A)
   Sqq    SNo   0°37' (A)      Opp    MC   8°28' (A)      Sqr    BMo   1°13' (S)
Ven Descending Node  02°Le01  Daily Travel +02°16'
   Qnx    Ear   0°45' (A)      Cnj    Ven   5°03' (S)      Opp    Sat   8°34' (A)
   Cnj    Nod   7°28' (S)      Tri    Asc   4°28' (A)      Qnx    MC   1°32' (A)
   Sxt    Vx   0°44' (A)      Tri    EqA   2°12' (A)      Cnj    PF   2°09' (A)
Mar Ascending Node  06°Ge15  Daily Travel +00°23'
   Sqr    Mon   1°38' (S)      Cnj    Mer   6°11' (S)      Sxt    Ven   0°49' (S)
   Tri    Sat   4°20' (A)      Sqr    Plu   1°34' (S)      Sqr    Chi   4°36' (A)
   Sqr    Hyg   0°28' (S)      Tri    SNo   3°14' (S)      Sxt    Asc   0°13' (A)
   Qnx    MC   2°42' (A)      Tri    Vx   3°30' (A)      Sxt    EqA   2°02' (A)
   Tri    Cup   3°24' (S)
Mar Descending Node  08°Li44 R  Daily Travel -00°07'
   Qnx    Mon   0°50' (A)      Sqr    Vul   0°44' (S)      Tri    Mer   3°42' (S)
   Sxt    Ven   1°40' (A)      Tri    Sat   1°51' (A)      Qnx    Chi   2°07' (A)
   Sqr    Ves   3°02' (S)      Sqq    Pal   1°24' (A)      Sqr    Jun   2°55' (A)
   Sqr    Cer   2°06' (A)      Qnx    Hyg   2°00' (A)      Sxt    Nod   0°45' (S)
   Tri    SNo   0°45' (S)      Opp    Asc   2°15' (A)      Sqr    MC   5°11' (A)
   Cnj    Vx   5°59' (A)      Opp    EqA   4°31' (A)      Cnj    Cup   0°55' (S)
Jup Ascending Node  08°Cn38  Daily Travel +00°09'
   Tri    Mon   0°45' (A)      Opp    Ear   7°22' (A)      Cnj    Sun   7°22' (A)
   Cnj    Vul   0°38' (S)      Tri    Jup   3°55' (S)      Qnx    Sat   1°57' (A)
   Tri    Nep   2°19' (A)      Sxt    Plu   0°49' (A)      Tri    Chi   2°13' (A)
   Cnj    Ves   3°07' (S)      SSq    Pal   1°18' (A)      Cnj    Jun   2°49' (A)
   Cnj    Cer   2°00' (A)      Tri    Hyg   1°55' (A)      Qnx    SNo   0°51' (S)
   Sqr    Asc   2°10' (A)      Opp    MC   5°05' (A)      Sqr    Vx   5°54' (A)
   Sqr    EqA   4°25' (A)      Sqr    Cup   1°01' (S)
Jup Descending Node  12°Cp12 R  Daily Travel -00°14'
   Opp    Vul   4°12' (S)      Qnx    Mer   0°14' (S)      Tri    Mar   6°24' (S)
   Sxt    Jup   0°22' (S)      Sqq    Ura   0°16' (S)      Sxt    Nep   1°15' (S)
   Tri    Plu   4°22' (A)      Sxt    Chi   1°21' (S)      Opp    Ves   0°26' (A)
   Opp    Jun   6°23' (A)      Opp    Cer   5°33' (A)      Qnx    Nod   2°43' (A)
   Sqr    Asc   5°43' (A)      Cnj    MC   8°39' (A)      Sqr    Cup   2°33' (A)
Sat Ascending Node  21°Cn09  Daily Travel +00°05'
   Sqq    Mon   1°44' (S)      Sxt    Mar   2°33' (A)      SSq    Plu   1°40' (S)
   Cnj    Ves   9°24' (A)      Sxt    Pal   1°11' (S)      Sqq    Hyg   0°34' (S)
   Cnj    PF   8°42' (A)
Sat Descending Node  25°Cp44 R  Daily Travel -00°06'
   SSq    Mon   2°51' (A)      Sqq    Mer   1°41' (S)      Tri    Mar   7°08' (A)
   SSq    Jup   1°49' (S)      Qnx    Ura   1°44' (S)      Sqq    Plu   2°55' (A)
   SSq    Chi   0°07' (A)      Tri    Pal   3°24' (A)      Tri    Vx   7°00' (A)
   Opp    PF   4°07' (A)      Tri    BMo   0°34' (S)
Ura Ascending Node  14°Ge39  Daily Travel +00°03'
   Sqr    Mon   6°46' (A)      Cnj    Mer   2°13' (A)      Sqr    Jup   2°06' (A)
   Tri    Sat   4°04' (S)      Sqr    Plu   6°50' (A)      Sqr    Chi   3°48' (S)
   Tri    SNo   5°10' (A)      SSq    PF   0°12' (A)      Tri    Cup   5°00' (A)
Ura Descending Node  12°Sg49 R  Daily Travel -00°03'
   Sqr    Mon   4°56' (A)      Opp    Mer   0°24' (A)      Tri    Ven   5°45' (A)
   Sqr    Jup   0°16' (A)      Sxt    Sat   2°14' (S)      Sqr    Plu   5°00' (A)
   Sqr    Chi   1°58' (S)      Qnx    Ves   1°04' (A)      Sqr    Hyg   6°06' (A)
   Tri    Ast   5°57' (S)      Tri    Nod   3°21' (A)      Sxt    SNo   3°21' (A)
   Tri    Asc   6°21' (A)      Sqq    PF   2°02' (A)      Sxt    Cup   3°10' (A)
Nep Ascending Node  10°Le09  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Qnx    Mon   2°16' (A)      Sxt    Mer   2°17' (S)      Cnj    Ven   3°05' (A)
   Opp    Sat   0°26' (A)      Sqr    Nep   0°48' (A)      Qnx    Chi   0°42' (A)
   Cnj    Nod   0°40' (A)      Opp    SNo   0°40' (A)      Tri    Asc   3°41' (A)
   Tri    EqA   5°56' (A)      Sxt    Cup   0°30' (A)      SSq    BMo   1°09' (S)
Nep Descending Node  12°Aq39 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Tri    Mer   0°13' (A)      Opp    Ven   5°35' (A)      Sqr    Mar   5°57' (S)
   Cnj    Sat   2°04' (S)      Sqr    Nep   1°42' (S)      Qnx    Ves   0°53' (A)
   Opp    Ast   6°07' (S)      Opp    Nod   3°10' (A)      Cnj    SNo   3°10' (A)
   Tri    Cup   3°00' (A)      Sqq    BMo   1°20' (A)
Plu Ascending Node  19°Cn22  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Sxt    Mar   0°46' (A)      Tri    Jup   6°49' (A)      Cnj    Ves   7°37' (A)
   Sxt    Pal   2°58' (S)
Plu Descending Node  20°Cp22 R  Daily Travel -00°02'
   Tri    Mar   1°46' (A)      Opp    Ves   8°37' (A)      Tri    Pal   1°58' (S)
   SSq    Hyg   1°21' (S)      Qnx    Ast   1°36' (A)      Tri    BMo   5°56' (S)
Chi Ascending Node  22°Li39 R  Daily Travel -00°03'
   Sqq    Mon   0°15' (S)      SSq    Plu   0°11' (S)      Qnx    Pal   0°18' (A)
   Sqq    Hyg   0°55' (A)      Sxt    Ast   3°52' (A)
Chi Descending Node  01°Ta42  Daily Travel +00°02'
   Tri    Ear   0°26' (A)      Sxt    Sun   0°26' (A)      Sqr    Ven   5°22' (S)
   Tri    Ura   4°14' (A)      Tri    Plu   6°07' (S)      Tri    MC   1°51' (A)
   Qnx    Vx   1°02' (A)      Sqr    PF   1°51' (A)
Cup Ascending Node  09°Le49  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Qnx    Mon   1°56' (A)      Sxt    Mer   2°36' (S)      Cnj    Ven   2°45' (A)
   Opp    Sat   0°46' (A)      Sqr    Nep   1°08' (A)      Qnx    Chi   1°02' (A)
   Cnj    Nod   0°21' (A)      Opp    SNo   0°21' (A)      Tri    Asc   3°21' (A)
   Tri    EqA   5°37' (A)      Cnj    PF   9°58' (A)      Sxt    Cup   0°10' (A)
   SSq    BMo   1°29' (S)
Cup Descending Node  11°Aq38 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Tri    Mer   0°48' (S)      Opp    Ven   4°34' (A)      Cnj    Sat   1°03' (S)
   Sqr    Nep   0°41' (S)      Qnx    Ves   0°08' (S)      Opp    Nod   2°09' (A)
   Cnj    SNo   2°09' (A)      Tri    Cup   1°59' (A)      Sqq    BMo   0°19' (A)

*** END REPORT ***
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2009, 02:28 PM by Steve » Logged
stephen
Active Member
*
Posts: 155


« Reply #2 on: Jun 13, 2009, 12:50 PM »

Hi All,
 Right now, from what Stephan has shared, I would estimate that he is well within the 3rd Stage Individuated, and knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual. Stephan is a new student to EA who is very sincere. I would like all of us to help address his very real Soul concerns and needs.
 Below are the planetary nodes for Stephan. Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn as you read through his shared biography. His Soul is on the edge of making tremendous Soul changes. Let's all try to give him a hand.
 Rad

*** PLANETARY NODES ***
Nep Ascending Node  10°Le09  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Cnj    Nod   0°40' (A)      Opp    SNo   0°40' (A)      Tri    Asc   3°41' (A)
Nep Descending Node  12°Aq39 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Cnj    Sat   2°04' (S)      Sqr    Nep   1°42' (S)      Qnx    Ves   0°53' (A)

Thanks Rad for posting the chart, and opening up this discussion with the determination of my Evolutionary Condition.  I deeply appreciate this help.

I have a question based on what I read in Deva's excellant book:
"Astrologically speaking, this evolutionary state correlates with Neptune..."

and this that you wrote in your post:
"...knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual." "Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn..."

Besides the biography that I wrote, which gives an indication ("observe and correlate") of my Evolutionary Condition, is it an additional chart signature that in someone who is "knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual" has the nodes of Neptune in close conjunction to the nodes of the Moon?  Or, maybe not just conjunct, but would the Nodes of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune be emphasized in some way in the chart of someone who is in the Evolutionary Stage of Consensus, Individuated, or Spiritual, respectively?

Thanks again,
God'dess Bless,
Stephen

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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 13, 2009, 01:46 PM »

Stephen,

Quote

Besides the biography that I wrote, which gives an indication ("observe and correlate") of my Evolutionary Condition, is it an additional chart signature that in someone who is "knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual" has the nodes of Neptune in close conjunction to the nodes of the Moon?  Or, maybe not just conjunct, but would the Nodes of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune be emphasized in some way in the chart of someone who is in the Evolutionary Stage of Consensus, Individuated, or Spiritual, respectively?


No, looking at any chart will never in any case be able to determine the evolutionary condition of any Soul. That's why it is essential to 'observe and correlate' in each and every case. Just looking at a chart for example we can not even determine the gender of a person. My estimation of your evolutionary condition/ stage is based on your own shared biography.

 Rad
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stephen
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 13, 2009, 02:53 PM »

Thank you Rad.

By the way, what astrology program is being used for the second chart, which gives the locations of the planetary nodes outside the wheel?

Also, has there been a determination of the symbol for the Pluto Polarity Point?

Just (eternally) curious...

Blessings,
Stephen
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Steve
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 13, 2009, 05:51 PM »

Quote
By the way, what astrology program is being used for the second chart, which gives the locations of the planetary nodes outside the wheel?

I added that 2nd chart to to Rad's post, Stephen.  It was created in Solar Fire 6.  If anyone has interest in learning how to set Solar Fire up in that way I can put up a post about it.

Quote
Also, has there been a determination of the symbol for the Pluto Polarity Point?

Some EA astrologers I know (including me) refer to it as PPP
Steve
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stephen
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 13, 2009, 06:59 PM »

I added that 2nd chart to to Rad's post, Stephen.  It was created in Solar Fire 6.  If anyone has interest in learning how to set Solar Fire up in that way I can put up a post about it.
I would have interest.  I don't have that program yet, but I will probably one day need it, since it can do that.  Thanks very much for putting up that chart.  I like the way that the graphical display quickly gives a visual of the house/axis emphasis in the chart.

Quote
Some EA astrologers I know (including me) refer to it as PPP
Steve

Thanks Steve. I was thinking more in the direction of a graphical symbol.  One day in the future when a programmer working for one of the astrology programs decides (upon request from the EA Community) to place the Pluto Polarity Point as a symbol upon the wheel (so that aspects could be included to that point, if desired), I just wondered if there was already a decision in the EA Community Leadership of that symbol.

Like...the Pluto symbol with the top circle filled in, or a second crossbar upon the vertical stroke, but of course something with meaning for the evolutionary purpose of the PPP, not those I suggested.

Thanks again for the chart Steve,
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
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Lia
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 14, 2009, 08:38 AM »

Hi Stephen,

First let me thank you for the deep sincerity and honesty you share your deepest soul issues with our EA community. It is indeed deeply honoring and humbling....

Hope you don’t mind me ‘jumping in’ with a few thoughts relative to your underlying questions. As Rad already explained, the evolutionary state of any soul can not be ’read’ from the chart, it can be determined only via observation and correlation. Meaning the way you express yourself, the questions that you search answers for, the way you communicate and the way you see life in general reflecting your own innermost reality. That inner reality is then reflected in the way of thinking, communicating and expressing oneself in life. (As we can not see you and interact you in actual life of course the way you expressed yourself  is the base of observation, I too would agree with Rad that you are at minimum have had one or two toes “testing the water” so to speak...the “deep waters of neptune” the 1st spiritual.

And in essence what basically happened is that this “testing the waters” thing already confused the heck out of you to be short...:-) ...but this HAPPENS to all of us in one way or another so you need to know first of all that you are FAR FAR not alone ...this is very important for deep within your soul there is such a deep aloneness that literally hurts (pluto in 6th and in virgo) the aloneness and the deep unconscious (and I must say very VERY CONFUSED sense of guilt) is so very deep in you and this is what caused you to wanting to end your overall existence even as a soul....THAT too you need to know you are not alone with..... Roll Eyes Grin

One of the most important things is for you to really understand that your soul is (despite your innermost confusion) is actually loved and supported by the Source....deep behind your subjective consciousness it is there.....and there is a reason for you to be exactly how you are...but point being how we actually are and what we may think about that can be two different -- sometimes even very different issue...

Anyhow, so starting with pluto’s placement it is very obvious that your soul has developed a deep, soul penetrating MASOCHISM and this is the first thing you would need to understand and heal from it in order to be able to make the necessary methamorphosizing changes and be able to manifest the evolutionary purpose your soul is really here for...

That can happen only if you would be able to unravel the source of the confusion deep within your soul...

When pluto (or mars) is opposite to moon, the soul in some ways in some fashions has been trying to 1) minimise any egocentric importance
2) it have done this in the past in ways that were EXTREMELY undermining, hurtful and harmful in childhood especially in early childhood.
3) when it falls to the 12/6th axis it has been played out via some extreme sado-masochistic ways.

For you it is pluto that opposing the moon, and the opposition is almost exact by minutes: there is an unconscious desire coming out of your soul (pluto) to choose parents that will undermine, reject and ‘punish’ you for who you ACTUALLY are....this is pretty much the bottomline of the confuson by the way...

That’s quiet a circumstance to set up to say the least.... and of course it all originates from the soul, the underlying masochism based on the deep unconscious need to ‘atone’ for something. Point being here the belief that we need to atone for something may or may not be real....or it can be very much a mixture of things relative to the whatever past life understanding that the soul had in the past (when it set up the intention at the first place)

In your case in essence it correlates to the belief systems of the last 2000 years; the judeo-christian belief systems (virgo/pisces) that were and are based on a hypocratical teaching i.e. beating up the ego, beating up the life of the “flesh” and in general setting up a belief system and a standard that is almost totally against to anything natural....

In short what happened in this regard is that your soul believed (neptune, pisces, 12th house) that you have to give up, ‘sacrifice’ your emotions (moon) as an individual in order to be ‘good enough’ in order to be like what was told by society in general and the ‘authority figures’ that you listened to (your s.node is conj. saturn) so in order to fulfil the expectations of the ‘social whole’ you have to 1) sacrifice all your emotions, 2) in actual reality what all this meant (but this part you were not aware consciously) you have to DENY your soul. Your actual real soul...for the sake of what you were TOLD it 'is' and how it 'should be' instead........Pluto in 6th denial, virgo, feeling a lack, feeling not being good enough for some reason and feeling guilty for it....

The CONFUSION in your case is very very paradoxical it all comes from the deep deep correlations that Rad right away pointed out: the s.node of moon is conj. to Neptune’s s.node AND conj. to saturn.

The paradox affects the deepest layers of your consciousness.....(s.node of neptune reflecting something that you have well we all have in the deepest unconscious levels which in short relates back to what historically called the 'atlantis or atlantian times' .....then in effect our current neptune placement always in some ways relate to this s.node of neptune....anyhow in your current evolutionary state this is by way of the natal neptune being in scorpio and being in the 8th house= there is a deep deep confusion in the bottom layers of your consciousness that comes out of a misunderstanding at the first place and plays out as an unconscious belief that something is “bad” about your soul as a soul (scorpio) This translates into the confused desire to end it, to give it up (neptune) to make it ultimately and eternally (neptune) dead (8th house and scorpio). In other words in some ways in some fashion your entrapment so to speak is about the very WAY your soul was trying to unconsciously evolve (8th house+ scorpio ruled by pluto)  All this relates to the scorpio neptune in the 8th....so when we mix confusion/misunderstanding with some truths the end will still be confusion...
Why I am talking about this 'neptune language' here is because you have the ppp. in pisces and of course there is your natal moon, conj. with chiron (the deepest wound falls into not only pisces but into the 12th house, so every symbol in your chart is a double sword so to speak and the neptune/12th house/pissces symbol is extremely important in your chart. The emphasised confusion within your soul based on totally confused beliefs as what god is the Source is and how to serve it, how to be 'good enough' according to the Source of all things...what it 'wants' from you in other words........

 So the real issue here is to become aware of the truth (jupiter) about your underlying beliefs that you developed via many many lifetimes, and how that affected on the one hand your whole emotional being and your subjective self image (moon) and how that affected back your unconscious and conscious BELIEFS which as a result caused a very contradictory and very severe masochism....

All this based on the patriarchal god image, the learned, man made laws and expected virtues, derived via a manmade god image versus the actual NATURAL Source...

The problem of course came out of trying to fulfil the social expectations (saturn conj. s.node of moon) and how that in ITSELF caused many many   TRAUMA (11th house and Aq!) to your soul and to your very conscious consciousness (saturn) Yet in the very same time this highly emphasised trauma (not one but many life times) actually forced your soul to accelerate your own evolution,(11th house plus aq. s.ode) the acceleration led you to ever deeper searches within and on THAT level the deepest level you felt ever more utterly alone .....felt absolutely hopeless, absolute impossible (the paradox affect) and absolutely not good enough no matter which way you tried.....deep within the feeling of being so  alone and so inferior everything became in the past a total paradox so to speak....how you relate to yourself (venus) has been almost totally oppressed/suppressed by ways of the parents, social norms and values so all your social relations; by the very people you wanted to actually serve (pluto in 6th and in virgo; the soul deep within knows that serving others is serving god...yet HOW to do that is usually the underying reason for confusion and masochism) so this created such a soul deep guilt; at the end for everything you done was either: 1) against what your soul felt was right ...this created real guilt on the deepest soul level. So via fulfilling the expectation of the social body that your soul wanted to serve created guilt....

2) if you done what your soul felt was sincerely and honesty right it was JUDGED WRONG for it was against what you were told you “should be doing” and in general how you “should be”.

So this created the typical “damned if you do it” and “damned if you dont”.
This is the paradoxical start so to speak for the extreme confusion and the resulting masochism your soul is actually dealing with.....

I have to go now and will have to come back later....
I hope the above make sense to you....?
Please let me know...

Much love and blessings to your sincere soul who has nothing wrong with it other than being so utterly confused and needs clarity and needs to unravel the truth (jupiter) about it's own confusion and the reason and results of that underlying confusion...

Lia

« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2009, 10:23 AM by Lia » Logged
stephen
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 14, 2009, 10:40 AM »

[quote from: Lia on Today at 08:38:41 AM]
Hi Stephen,
First let me thank you for the deep sincerity and honesty you share your deepest soul issues with our EA community. It is indeed deeply honoring and humbling....
[/quote]

Lia,
Thank YOU for your very real understanding of the seriousness of this issue for me.  Despite the glib responses/misdirections of this oh-too-clever-mind, this issue overlays my entire existence - smothering my Soul like a blanket of deep deep snow after an endless blizzard, and yet, without the quiet peace of that midnight snow-covered land...and, truly, it is simultaneously like that blanketing cover is also at the same time a raging firestorm burning through a dry forest in the intense heat of the noonday summer Sun, and yet the forest is not consumed, CAN NOT be consumed, and so the fire can not burn itself out !?!  When I can finally get to the place where I can envision the flames ending (such as: the demand that my Soul itself be shredded), then into the brief peace the paradox intrudes and overwhelms, and the fleeting peace of the midnight snow-covered quiet returns, but all-too-soon smothers me...and yet only long enough for the firestorm to sneak up and surround me once again.

Quote
Hope you don’t mind me ‘jumping in’ with a few thoughts relative to your underlying questions.

Not only do not I absolutely NOT mind, I welcome your input.  Your posts are among those that I read, and re-read, searching for a bit of information to ease this paradox...to help lead me up out of the midnight frost (out of the raging firestorm), and find some cool peace and quiet within the burning (find some warmth and light within the freeze)...

Quote
And in essence what basically happened is that this “testing the waters” thing already confused the heck out of you to be short...:-) ...but this HAPPENS to all of us in one way or another so you need to know first of all that you are FAR FAR not alone ...this is very important for deep within your soul there is such a deep aloneness that literally hurts (pluto in 6th and in virgo) the aloneness and the deep unconscious (and I must say very VERY CONFUSED sense of guilt) is so very deep in you and this is what caused you to wanting to end your overall existence even as a soul....THAT too you need to know you are not alone with..... Roll Eyes Grin

  Yes, you hit on a defining characteristic on my recent life, it is very confusing why suddenly everything changed for me.  I know it now as necessary (however, the pain yet remains), after having the change defined in terms of my Soul’s very evolution, yet the many changes were inexplicable and hard to live with…especially, the splitting of my mind against itself, and the thoughts of suicide.  The very idea itself surprised me, and I never would have had the thought of suicide before, and moreover, the intensity overwhelmed me.  And, yes, that thought leads to guilt, as well.  For, you identified another new characteristic, the fierceness of pain ‘deep within my Soul’ of a ‘deep aloneness’ which has lead to a Soul-guilt at that very thought of ending my Soul.  The pain arises into my throat as I now type, for I am unbelievably still of two minds even now - the clever one which sees no way out but Soul death - poised against the fierce resistance of my own Soul which refuses to succumb to the ego-mind’s ‘solution(?)’.  Last night, after the exposure of these deep ‘secrets’ (on the Internet! no less), my internal compass flipped north-to-south once again, and the choking flood arose, bringing with it the panic of a captain in a floundering ship with land weeks away.  ‘What have you done?,’ from the clever ego-mind, ‘we’re exposed!’  ‘YOU’RE exposed,’ Soul countered, but inside my heart was an image of the ship beneath me disappearing into the depths, sinking far below and fading from sight, with the seastorm just beginning…!

Quote
One of the most important things is for you to really understand that your soul is (despite your innermost confusion) is actually loved and supported by the Source....deep behind your subjective consciousness it is there.....and there is a reason for you to be exactly how you are...but point being how we actually are and what we may think about that can be two different -- sometimes even very different issue...

  I am lost between what once I THOUGHT I was, and what I have yet to become.  Or, not ‘to become’ but rather perhaps what I truly already am beneath all this too-much thinking and too-much feeling.  I have recently occasionally called upon the Source as Mother, and she has sometimes come with an intense and brilliant white light that is beyond white, making all that I thought was white to fade to beige and brown.  But…it is very very hard for me to ask for help, and to trust (this exposure on the Internet is the Soul making the ego-mind ‘step up’ and be FORCED to trust.  Soul is oh-so-tired of the self-professed oh-so-clever ego-mind.).  And, when Her energy leaves, Soul deflates – confused (‘All was well, why did She leave?’) and ego-mind cleverly slips into that gap (‘YOU are not worthy!  She left us because of YOU!)  Soul trusts…and is hurt.  Ego-mind trusts nothing except its own cleverness, and so CAUSES hurt.
  To say I am on a fence is too little.  Say instead that my right arm is chained to my left ankle and my left arm is chained to my right ankle, and there is a separate and separating Space Shuttle chained to each.
  This new opening to trust, to the honest application of the EA Paradigm, is yet another attempt at resolution, and is already INTENSE, and this attempt truly feels like the call has come to the two pilots of the two shuttles, ‘Start the countdown.’

Quote
For you it is pluto that opposing the moon, and the opposition is almost exact by minutes: there is an unconscious desire coming out of your soul (pluto) to choose parents that will undermine, reject and ‘punish’ you for who you ACTUALLY are....this is pretty much the bottomline of the confuson by the way...

  OK, I grandly achieved THAT goal.  I chose parents who would provide that service, but the effect seemed to be to create a STRONGER ego and not a weaker ego (my Soul survived my childhood).  I read awhile ago a Buddhist idea that the important people in your life and yourself gather together before your own Incarnation into yet another body, and you put out The Call – ‘Anyone here love me enough to step forward, and cause me the hurt that I need in this upcoming life to help my Soul to grow?’  And…up stepped my father, and right behind him my mother.  It was THAT piece of information which allowed me to get past the hatred of my parents, especially my father.  (Do you see now why I LOVE information?  The right word at the right time is a well-crafted key placed in the hands of a chained man.)  My brothers and sisters, however, could not unfortunately accept that thought and the healing for them that it implies.  They hold their grief and anger close to their hearts, as once I did, and, when I tried to understand that, I came to the conclusion that perhaps I differ.  And the difference seems to be:  I no longer am willing to exist in this way!  Either this very existence goes…ALL OF IT…or “I” go, and I was beginning to lose my caring as to which path was tread, for both eventually end up in the same place, as I saw it:  An end to pain - through either the peace of simply being, or the emptiness of no longer being.

Quote
Why I am talking about this 'neptune language' here is because you have the ppp. in pisces and of course there is your natal moon, conj. with chiron (the deepest wound falls into not only pisces but into the 12th house, so every symbol in your chart is a double sword so to speak and the neptune/12th house/pissces symbol is extremely important in your chart. The emphasised confusion within your soul based on totally confused beliefs as what god is the Source is and how to serve it, how to be 'good enough' according to the Source of all things...what it 'wants' from you in other words........
…the acceleration led you to ever deeper searches within and on THAT level the deepest level you felt ever more utterly alone .....felt absolutely hopeless, absolute impossible (the paradox affect) and absolutely not good enough no matter which way you tried.....deep within the feeling of being so alone and so inferior everything became in the past a total paradox so to speak

  Yes, not good enough to meet the perceived expectations of the internalized unwanted child I was (who must do always better!) which became (as I rose above the expectations of me as child) the iron-clad expectations of the internalized parent, which became (as I ‘healed’ [so called] those parental expectations) the internalized God of the Roman Catholic tradition.  Burning THAT internalization into ashes has been difficult, and now I see (THANK YOU!) that the smoke from those very flames of cleansing have darkened and tarnished my internal image of the Mother, Herself.  She is forced by my ego-mind to carry the taint of the shape of the punishing intolerant God who was forced upon me in my youth at the hands of a punishing intolerant father.  (I have never even considered such a thing before.)  So, I call upon Her very rarely, and I shy away from the healing that I now can feel that I am due, since I have always felt the deep need to atone and an even deeper sense of absolute loneliness (‘Oh why have you abandoned me, Great Mother,’ from Soul, and the response from ego-mind, ‘YOU aren’t good enough, we don’t need Her anyway.  YOU just need ME!’ which has drowned out the gentle response from the Cosmic Mother.  AND I LET IT!)

 !! Did I mention that this IS INTENSE for me !!

  This recent post of yours has lead me to the understanding that at the exact center of each natal chart is a Soul, with the oppositions criss-crossing across its Heart, with the squares surrounding it and boxing it in, with the trines rotating about it and bringing in various energies, with the inconjuncts pressing in close and limiting its space...

Quote
Much love and blessings to your sincere soul who has nothing wrong with it other than being so utterly confused and needs clarity and needs to unravel the truth (jupiter) about it's own confusion and the reason and results of that underlying confusion.

  Thank you for allowing our Great Mother to speak to me through you.
Much Love and Blessings be heaped upon your helping Soul, Lia.
(The Great Goddess is smiling at Her children helping each other.)

Yes, I know, the journey is not over, or even barely begun.
(Ego-mind is saying, ‘Are we there yet?’  ‘Can we GO now…?’)

Thank you again for your kindness.

Besides (truly) helping me, this post will hopefully help other students who come to this site as well.

God'dess Bless You,
Stephen


PS.  Upon rereading this, before posting, I can tell when Soul is responding, and when ego-mind is answering …
One, poetic and feeling and open, and the Other, strict and rigid and exacting.
I have never noticed that before.
(Is the pull of 'the One' symbolized by Venus conjunct the North Node, and 'the Other' by Saturn conjunct the South Node?)

One, and the Other.  Soul, and its chosen Ego.
(Now boys, YOU PLAY NICE!)


                                             !!! May all who read this find True Peace for their Soul !!!






« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2009, 04:20 PM by stephen » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 14, 2009, 12:03 PM »

Hi Stephan and everyone else,
 
 As we proceed with Stephan's chart I would like to suggest that in order to fully understand the causative factors for what Stephan has shared in his biography that we try to discern the difference between natural guilt, and learned guilt as symbolized by his Saturn on his S.Node, conjunct Neptune's S.Node, and the S.Nodes in Capricorn in his 10th House. To unravel that dynamic, the differences between learned versus natural guilt and the psychological / behavioral consequences in a giant key in understanding Stephan's evolutionary and life situation.

 Rad
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Lesley
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 14, 2009, 04:02 PM »

Hi Stephen,

I know I'm not the only one here who is touched by your honesty and courage in sharing your story.

When I first saw your chart I saw what Rad is referring to, the natural guilt. Of course, I invite you, Rad, and anyone else to give honest feedback with regard to what I think I see in your chart. With Saturn on the SNode in Aquarius, ruled by Uranus in the 5th in Leo, I see a prior-life abuse of personal power (power available to you through the birth family: Uranus' ruler in Cancer) that impacted a great number of people (Saturn/SNode in 11th/Aquarius). The desire for self-annihilation that you have written of seems to me a response to the natural guilt within your Soul. Mars in Taurus opposing Neptune Full phase in Scorpio, in a case like this, suggests to me prior-life suicides as a result of the intense and deep internal guilt. (Mars-Neptune squaring Nodal axis: the guilt, SN conj Saturn, would become so intense.) With your Jupiter and Moon in Pisces/12th, it is the sense of falling short of your own ideals of behavior that has been causing or creating the self-destructive impulse.

But with Aries rising, Pluto new to the 6th house in Virgo, and Venus conj the NNode in Leo/5th, your Soul is ready to purge from itself the buildup of guilt that has stalled your Soul's evolution and perpetuated traumatic (Saturn conj SNode in Aquarius/11th) life experiences. Not only this, but the Soul now sees a need to give its experiences and acquired knowledge a social context, for the sake of healing others as you yourself continue to heal (Pluto in Virgo/6th in Full phase opposition to Moon in 12th/Pisces, and Pluto in Full phase opposition to Jupiter in 12th/Pisces; Mars-Neptune Full phase opposition). With Saturn in New phase conj to the SNode in Aquarius/11th, astrology would be a wonderful 'karma yoga' (Pluto in 6th/Virgo oppose Moon in Pisces/12th and oppose Jupiter in Pisces/12th) for your Soul. As you do this work on behalf of others, your Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition.

One of the most precious and profound teachings that Wolf has given is that of the imperfect Natural God. As a fellow Pluto in 6th/Virgo (opposing Mars in 12th, Full phase!), I can relate to a lot of what you've shared so far. The notion that the Natural God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving has helped me in my own struggle to free myself of both natural and learned guilt, and to finally move into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition in this very lifetime. Now that you've joined the EA community of like-minded Souls, I'm sure you will finally receive the healing your Soul needs, and that God wants to give you. I can share with you, from direct personal experience, that God is indeed loving, compassionate, forgiving.

I hope I haven't gone too far out on a limb here...I wanted to post about natural guilt earlier, but did the Virgo thing and held back! Thank you so much for sharing your experience with everyone here, Stephen...you are loved and supported, as you've already seen.

God bless,
Lesley
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stephen
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 14, 2009, 04:34 PM »

Hi Stephan and everyone else,
 As we proceed with Stephan's chart I would like to suggest that in order to fully understand the causative factors for what Stephan has shared in his biography that we try to discern the difference between natural guilt, and learned guilt as symbolized by his Saturn on his S.Node, conjunct Neptune's S.Node, and the S.Nodes in Capricorn in his 10th House. To unravel that dynamic, the differences between learned versus natural guilt and the psychological / behavioral consequences in a giant key in understanding Stephan's evolutionary and life situation.
Rad

  Thank you so much Rad for providing the insight of direction, and for providing a safe space upon this forum for me (and others!) to ask for help.
  As moderator, please remember, my Soul needs help, but my ego-mind wants nothing to do with it, so I often do not know when ‘enough is enough, already.’  I am poised between cutting and running - and completely opening up.  I seek to do neither, but open up appropriately within such a forum to both receive healing and to display the process of such healing to those who would desire to apply the EA Paradigm, but have yet to understand its deeper meaning... and deepest Soul value.
  I am keeping in mind:  The watchword here is appropriateness and value for the seekers who come to this site.

Quote from: Lesley on June 14, 2009, 04:02:59 PM
Hi Stephen,
I know I'm not the only one here who is touched by your honesty and courage in sharing your story.
God bless,
Lesley

  Thank you Lesley, so very much.  I am between the two pulls on seeing these responses (of course!).  The one is to accept the help, and walk into a community with acceptance of the community's acceptance, and the other is to succumb to the inner dialogue (‘YOU silly whiner!  This is not a personal website for you, back off, and let TRUE STUDENTS have access to their teachers!’)  For now, I am able to not listen to THAT voice...  Why?...because I view this as a case study, which will provide active benefit to others even after the thread itself is no longer active.

Quote
When I first saw your chart I saw what Rad is referring to, the natural guilt. Of course, I invite you, Rad, and anyone else to give honest feedback with regard to what I think I see in your chart.

  You are right in what you see.  I have had several past lives force themselves forward and overwhelm/intrude into my current life.  Additionally, I have been to a practitioner of the Deep Memory Process, and so have twice lived through previous deaths.  One life reviewed in the DMP was that of a Viking with the ability to call down the very God of Fury himself through ritual and incantation, and he was allowed to completely overcome ‘me’ in order to give me what 'I' then desired: invincibility and the ability to destroy human life.  ‘I’ smashed babies and put anyone in front of me to the axe…anyone and everyone.  And...I went out of my way to put ANYONE in front of me!
  In a life that intruded on its own several months ago, ‘I’ was a man who repetitively violated the virtue of a multitude of women, and that in a society which shamed and then outcast these poor women.  In another which arose just a few weeks ago, ‘I’ was a fat monk in charge of a entire monastery of monks, and ‘I’ convinced them that the privations of the flesh were the only way to God, and they should forego all but the least morsel, so that ‘I’ would be able to eat all that ‘I’ liked.  Eventually, ‘I’ convinced them to remain in their cells, and locked them all in, and starved them all to death…all of them.  These are hard to face, for the memories of these lives are often more clear than the memories from this current life that I am living.

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The desire for self-annihilation that you have written of seems to me a response to the natural guilt within your Soul. Mars in Taurus opposing Neptune Full phase in Scorpio, in a case like this, suggests to me prior-life suicides as a result of the intense and deep internal guilt. (Mars-Neptune squaring Nodal axis: the guilt, SN conj Saturn, would become so intense.) With your Jupiter and Moon in Pisces/12th, it is the sense of falling short of your own ideals of behavior that has been causing or creating the self-destructive impulse.

  Additonally, I was 'cleared' by a Shaman/Reiki healer on 4/26/09, with the following (I have only added the lives which she saw that coincide with what you see in the chart).  She wrote:
  1) Past life in which you were a orphaned girl living in a farming community. Lived with terror, abused, feeling completely helpless, overworked, abandoned, lonely. The community you were living with used you as a scapegoat, caused you to kill yourself.
  4) In this past life you were an early Christian, you saw most members of you community killed, felt abandoned by God; hiding with your group, then you became spiritually dead, empty, first it was spiritual suicide then death.
  She told me that she needed to close my third eye, for it had opened, and that was why the past lives were becoming so intrusive.  Now, it is just in dreams at night (like it used to be).  No, not every night.  I try to seal my Aura each night before I sleep now.  Still, there is leakage...

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With Saturn in New phase conj to the SNode in Aquarius/11th, astrology would be a wonderful 'karma yoga' (Pluto in 6th/Virgo oppose Moon in Pisces/12th and oppose Jupiter in Pisces/12th) for your Soul. As you do this work on behalf of others, your Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition.

  For a reason I have been unable to explain to my wife, or even myself, I KNOW that I WILL do this work on behalf of others, not so that my “Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual”, but because I well know the exquisite pain of a Soul unable to move forward, unable to retreat into the (assumed) comfort of a previous method of living, and unable to resolve the tension between the two.  However, truly, thank you Lesley for a confirmation that the possible peace of a Soul resolution could await me, even if temporarily, for I guess that I assume the 1st Spiritual will bring at least some small peace…for at least some small time.  (Of course, the above statement assumes that I will be able to internalize the multi-faceted concepts of the EA Paradigm thoroughly enough to have it come through me to provide healing for others.)
  I have to admit that I do not readily see the connections between the symbols in the chart and your deductions, which is definitely NOT to say that your analysis is not right on or doesn’t have value.  It is…and it does.
  Is there a “middle sentence”, so to speak, between the symbols and the points which you raise, which can clarify those points, or will clarity simply come through further intensive studying?  I would ask that same question of any EA Practitioner.  I have downloaded the excellent keywords list which Steve the administrator of this site has posted in the resources section.  Is there a clue in that document to the way that you are able to read various meanings out of the same symbols?  I am studying the archetypal meanings in Deva’s excellent book, but I still have quite a long ways to go.

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One of the most precious and profound teachings that Wolf has given is that of the imperfect Natural God.

  Do you have time to write more on this concept?  Maybe even starting a new thread about this idea of an imperfect and Natural God?  I am certain it would help all who come to this site to have a greater and more detailed understanding of the underlying concepts which support the EA Paradigm.

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…I can relate to a lot of what you've shared so far. The notion that the Natural God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving has helped me in my own struggle to free myself of both natural and learned guilt, and to finally move into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition in this very lifetime.

  I am proud of you.  This work is not easy.  Even when you find your path leads to the right door, recognizing that door is not automatic, and opening that door and casting aside the torch of ego-centered existence in order to be allowed to enter is NOT easy, for you enter into a dark interior!

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Now that you've joined the EA community of like-minded Souls, I'm sure you will finally receive the healing your Soul needs, and that God wants to give you. I can share with you, from direct personal experience, that God is indeed loving, compassionate, forgiving.

  I am willing to ‘go the distance’ to achieve healing.  Once, I was broken and didn’t know it, and then, I thought I was whole, and liked the feeling, but it was mere ego-inflation.  I seek to truly be whole, and, as I try to ascend this mountain of Soul Evolution, be allowed to stop, turn around, and help others up, so that they can climb past me, or stand next to me and reach out a hand to others, as well.
Thank you for stopping in your climb, and reaching back to give me a hand, and helping me up the rocky uneven path towards where you now stand.
  I will stand by you, and all of those who truly practice the JWG Method through the EA Paradigm, and reach out a hand, as well, when I am able to internalize this Paradigm.

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I hope I haven't gone too far out on a limb here...I wanted to post about natural guilt earlier, but did the Virgo thing and held back!

  Oh no, quite the contrary.  Your post is knowledgeable, on-target and very very welcome.

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Thank you so much for sharing your experience with everyone here, Stephen...you are loved and supported, as you've already seen.

  You are welcome (I hope that it benefits all who come here and read this), and it is very hard for me to accept that second part.  It is surprising to me to receive support, and very difficult to allow.  These posts are my Soul drawing a line in the sand, and pushing the ego-mind across the line (to the sound of too too much oh-so-clever protests from ego-mind, and reasons, and ‘wait, wait a minute, if you would just listen, you would see that I am right, you dont understand, I can explain...’  ‘Oh, enough already,’ from Soul.)


Thank you again Rad, and thank you Lesley.

God'dess Bless,
Stephen

« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2009, 06:15 PM by stephen » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 15, 2009, 05:10 AM »

Hi Everyone again,

Thanks Lesley for your input of course it contains a lot of truth! In itself everything you said is true in a way, but I would like to add to it and point out why this aspect is only one part of the truth relative to the soul‘s evolutionary journey. What I am trying to say is that the soul is 1) dealing with a double skipped step (mars neptune, 2nd 8th) and also the soul is dealing with an underlying paradox relative to it‘s own soul level consciousness. (saturn in aq. and in 11th: EVERYTHING in this chart is defined by the paradox itself! This is the current STRUCTURE of the soul’s consciousness and it confused the heck out of the soul.) Unless we understand the paradoxical nature of the soul and unravel the reasons for the skipped steps we (in my view) can’t have an objective picture of this chart and of Stephen’s soul issues.

So considering the above lets try to understand the nature of of the ‘skipped steps’ and lets try to unravel from the symbols what and around when the soul experienced which resulted in the underlying extreme tension of the skipped steps (mars, neptune, taurus scorpio, I believe we can agree from these symbols that the tension is at minimum EXTREMELY INTENSE, and it is so for a very long time; i.e. mars is moving slowly out of exact square so it has been so for a long time, while neptune is still only 1 degree apart of exact square so this part of the skipped steps is still extremely intense (scorpio, 8th house I guess we don’t need intensity more than that :-) )

Also I’d suggest to see saturn and capricorn with a double view; it isn’t only guilt, it is also SOCIETY, the very symbol of our  natural SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY that we owe to the social whole that we belong. There have been societies before the patriarchy and saturn in those societies didn’t mean distortion, did it? Yet it still meant society and responsibility and of course based on that inner social awareness it also correlated to natural guilt IF we done something that was not okay from a social point of view, if it was not responsible and didn’t consider others in the right way. Saturn, capricorn is the sign after sag; when natural law is the underlying law for a social group saturn capr. simply means the MANIFESTATION of natural law within the time and space reality where we live. When that is the case, cancer the natural process of maturation will lead from natural cancer into natural capricorn. The cancerian ’shelve’ will step by step broaden and eventually in adulthood will include the whole = the manifested creation in the time and space reality including but not exclusive to the human community one is living in. The concept of the ’nuclear family’ is a patriarchal concept. It was nonexistent before. Children, all children were raised by the whole community, and all adults were responsible (capr.) for all the children (cancer) in a natural society. This way of life (we can call this tradition, the oldest tradition on earth relative to the human species) have been passed on, (conditioned) gradually to all children so all would extend their notion of belonging (cancer and its protective shelve) outwardly including the whole capricornian social SHARED way of living.....the boundaries of cancer right around the self, will be matured to include everybody and everything in the manifested creation but of course limited by WHAT the person can consciously embrace: so the land it lived on, how far the group has wondered into that land, the animals plants etc. that it encountered. So it is limited by the perception of the conscious consciousness but what has been consciously perceived that is all included as ’family’ with a sense of belonging to that socially experienced and shared reality. Of course utterly different approach relative to our social realities but this is what has been conditioned into children within natural societies before the patriarchy.

Why I am talking about this in details is because obviously we need to understand Stephen’s saturn in a PARADOXICAL way, (11th and aq!!) for that’s the key to understand both, it’s consciousness structure and the issues that traumatised Stephen’s soul and caused the double paradoxical skipped steps; equalling to choices the soul made that indeed cased harm and hurt to others too. But to me the question is why?

Capr. and saturn is extremely important in this chart of course, not just because saturn conj. to s.node node but because it is in the 11th and because capr. is on the 10th cusp. The s.node of saturn, pluto and jupiter are in the 10th. While the s.node of uranus (the s.node of the ruler of the moon’s s.node!) is in the 9th house in sag.

In short, all this correlates to the time of the beginning of the patriarchy and how that time and events impacted of the soul’s evolutionary journey  RELATIVE TO THE CONSCIOUSNESS LEVEL the soul was in at those times. From the symbols relative to the skipped steps (taurus, scorpio) the impact is around the time of cca. 6000 years backward...(after the Atlantis trauma and in the Egyptian age as the secretly brought patriarchal elitist ‘norms’ has been slowly but intensely (scorpio) took over the earlier matriarchal beliefs. Of course that’s just one time and space reality the soul was a part of but in general what I see had happened was the impact of the CHANGE relative to the social values and norms right at the time when the soul was re-integrating into society after the 2nd individuated stage, so around the beginning of the 3rd individuated stage appears to correlate with the transition of the patriarchy. Within the 3rd individuated the individuation process completes in the soul RELATIVE TO IT’S OWN INDIVIDUAL BEING, so in other words, the individuation will continue but in a totally different way later on, the relative self importance and self actualisation relative to JUST the soul itself peaks in the 3rd individuated to then diminish in the 1st spiritual when the soul consciously realises the Source and compare to that it realises it’s own unimportance.

As I see this chart I would say the soul’s natural journey through the 3rd individuated with ever more deeper sense of confusion (neptune square s.node) and because of that confusion (not understanding what the heck is the problem why the soul feels guilty when it is trying to do what it thought was serving the social whole, what the social whole SAID it needed from it’s individuated quiet brilliant intellect)
The s.node of uranus in the 9th in sag: the paradox started when groups of people (uranus) has suddenly and quiet abruptly changed the beliefs systems and started to ‘teach’ (well quit violently I might add) the new paradoxical ‘truths’ of the patriarchy....in Egypt for example this lead to the so called pharaoh age, who as always gained their ‘divine power’ from the women, usually from their mother...yet they secretly (scorpio) replaced the women, the very ‘divine’ origin and many times secretly killed them...so that they now became the male god figures and claimed and abused the power and passed on a new belief system, that was at first kind of mixed with some of the old elements so that the people will accept it, but the underlying agenda was of course to fundamentally mislead and influence (scorpio) the people and build new social norms, values, taboos and right and wrongs....

At those early times of the transition the soul was actually a woman (asteroid. lilt conj pluto, conj. lucifer, WHILE that lucifer also conj. black moon lilith! So the healing of the original female principle in this chart is happening via unravelling what was the evil trick at the first place!...pluto conj. lilith the soul have come to a full circle so to speak...it all started as  a WOMAN and not as a man.......next to this juno, ceres, vesta conj. in cancer in the 4th ruled by moon in 12th conj. chiron; the DEEPEST wound of the soul happened to it's belief system and happened as a woman...it all happened to it's feminine/feeling/emotional principle....and the deepest confusion happened via giving something totally unconditionally (chiron in pisces) as a woman (moon) outside of the visible ‘scenery’ (12th house) and out of some kind of some kind of confused belief (12th house) thinking believing (12th house) that it is a service (6th house virgo lilith)..service to whom? Her children.... in that age her beloved sons....

The first application of the uranus in the 5th is started with the unexpected ‘reward’ (uranus in leo in the 5th) for the gift (5th house, leo) the soul could give at those times: something it inherited indeed: and that was the divine origin AS A WOMAN (ruled by sun in cancer, which is ruled by moon in the 12th, which is ruled by neptune in 8th..so back to the origin, the very reason for the skipped step at the very first place)

The unexpected ‘reward’ was actually being murdered by it’s own son, or sons, or their closest friends after the gift has been passed on...the divinity so to speak (not only Egypt, every early patriarchy started with BEING BORN out of a woman who was considered as a direct descendandt of the divine....it is still present in evey mythology, and for example the judeo-chrisitan trandition, why on earth still today the jewis tradition, one of the most patriarchal religion considers one to be truly jew only if their MOTHER was a jew...not their father...interesting paradox isn't it?? )
Anyhow, so again the soul experienced the first trauma and the first and deepest shock as a mother (vesta, ceres, juno: who have been putting itself into the position out of love, out of supporting what the sons and the male friends of the son wanted, to make the son socially accepted 'divine' by making him equal first partner, and then elevate the son into the role of being the 'king' with full power during the transition. Sacrifising herself (moon in 12th) and giving unconditionally this way...that's what they asked from the soul and it has given it out of love and behand the scenes out of deceit.........The beliefs and the total trust the soul had at that time have been fundamentally betrayed for it believed that this new social order that those elitist sons of the (once) leading women wanted was something good ...the soul believed what they said and taught to the poeple was true....the instant unexpected death by the hand of the most beloved (son and partner) was such a trauma that it broke the soul heart even in death. It not just broke it it is like a bomb (uranus) in the middle of the heart (leo) by it's most beloved son and lover (leo and 5th house) that blew its heart into pieces....The serving of the social whole became serving men who wanted the power at all cost, and in the soul's own history it started with those the soul loved most (Uranus in the 5th, and in leo: trauma to heart by those one passionately loves....+ neptune in 8th house, there is such an IDEALISED projection onto those the soul loves and merges with and it has been of course sexualised ...the other issue about this is the sexual karma to top the whole thing......for in fact many the soul have merged with had ulterior agendas and because of the pisces moon/chiron/jup thing those others have been extremely deceptive with  hidden ulterior, and eventually evil agendas)

The confusion and devastation of that kind of death experiences caused the soul to not even WANTING TO SEE CLEARLY (moon in the 12th) FOR IT HURT EMOTIONALLY SO MUCH and it could not understand why on earth this happened....the soul thought it must have done something wrong at the first place in order to ‘deserve’ this horrible death by the person (or persons) it loved most....let’s imagine the agony and the confusion of that death of a woman having been mercilessly murdered by its beloved son to whom the soul have given everything from the deepest soul level...out of love (cancer, leo, scorpio neptune in an absolute way) it put itself to the side, and allowed it’s intellectual genius to be used by the son and it’s friends....for the purposes of what the son said....this kind of betrayed love is also signified in venus opp. saturn in 11th: the very love (venus in leo) was actually opposite to what the soul’s overall consciousness sensed it is serving the group/society yet the love (venus ruled by cancer sun) appeared more important for it came out of a motherly feeling and in the same time served the soul’s emotional needs of receiving love (leo and 5th house) for the feedback it desired (from the son and it’s group, uranus in leo) the soul has chosen to serve them, (lilith in virgo in the 6th) and this was of course mixed with the 3rd individuated soul’s natural feeling of not really needing to be a part of society for it is already above the consensus it is enough for the soul to share what it can give without necessarily being on the stage of society....
If all this happens in natural society, the story of course would be totally different. But it wasn’t so of course this story above is just one possible life time TO BEGIN WITH THE PARADOX which lead to the later lives of the anger, confusion and going back and froth endless times between the s.node and the n.node node and not being able to find solution....sinking deeper and deeper either in anger either in atonement.

Yet all this started with a fundamental trauma of being the part of the paradox change of matriarchy leading into patriarchy and changing the very social norms that within natural society would have lead the soul to reintegrate and use it’s abilities in truly useful ways for the social whole. With this paradoxical switch the soul have served the patriarchy at the very first place WITHOUT knowing it serves something evil..... Out of wanting to be of service,(lilith)  out of wanting to serve society, s.node of moon conj. saturn, in the 11th; for a truly humanity minded consciousness (aq) which does not wanted at the beginning any particular personal gain from it....at that time the soul believed (neptune, 12th house) that it was true (jupiter conj. chiron) and it wounded the soul in the possible deepest way....
(Will continue in another post)
« Last Edit: Jun 15, 2009, 11:08 AM by Lia » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 15, 2009, 05:13 AM »

(Contiued from above)

This kind of scenario have repeated a few times in some ways in the very early stages of patriarchy, and then as a reaction (mars) the anger started to grow because of the total confusion and the will to live, to survive (mars in taurus in the 2nd) hit back. How it hit back causing another skipped step is what you Lesley pointed out in general. But I think it is really important to understand the reasons for that period, the confusion, and being cheated out via total illusions (neptune and 12th house) on one’s own soul so to speak, being cheated out BY LOVE (leo ruled by sun in cancer) a the first place. The feminine principle in the soul have been so deeply confused and traumatised...also there is a paradoxical effort trying to alienate oneself from it’s own conscious consciousness (sat. in aq.) alienate oneself from what one consciously knows....
The reason for that lies in the opposition of venus in leo and saturn: the outer side of venus is 7th house and libra in this chart: so it is ruled by leo venus: the projection of leo will transform into seeing others in this way: they ARE (must be) loveable in order for me to receive any love I must accept them then juno in the 4th in cancer: embrace them....while saturn opp. venus what one consciously knows is actually OPPOSITE to what one  feels...so lets detach lets put aside lets alienate what I actually know and lets switch it around maybe I am wrong (pluto in 6th and in virgo, doubt...lilith there it all came from an ancient desire to be of service without self importance....

To me, this chart this soul consciousness is the walking paradox itself....I really think it is demonstrating the heart of the great drama of human evolution, how our most idealistic and best intentions can lead to the most horrible experiences simply because we didn’t know enough and totally misunderstood the events that happened that we experienced...than relative to what we understood were trying to improve something that may lead to even more horror, and than our anger and confusion lead to make choices (that in the very same time always served our specific evolutionary needs, however it could serve only within the whatever understanding our soul had at any point of time)
So in this case the soul’s acceleration to the 1st spiritual started by the very traumas it experienced in the 3rd individuated and it kind of rushed the soul ahead in paradoxical ways....

Eventually the soul was trying to cut off and alienate (uranus) from its own heart (leo, 5th house) in order to survive (taurus mars square to uranus in leo) and that in itself of course in a paradoxical way (uranus) also traumatised the soul....then it realised survival without a feeling/loving heart worth NOTHING at all...so then it wanted to kill itself ....

When it loved it typically loved the kind of people who blow it’s heart to pieces....(uranus in leo, 5th AND neptune in 8th, in scorp.) the ulterior agendas coming out of the veils at one point causing such disillusionment (neptune) and heartbreak (uranus) that again it just didn’t seem to worth living OR caused such anger that the soul totally shut down (mars in taurus) and didn’t want to know anything but what it can do to survive via utilising the whatever resources it had....

All this goes back to the underlying utter confusion about what’s wrong and right....sun ruler of uranus and venus is ruled by 12th moon, conj, chiron and jup...and of course conj. the ppp. the final evolutionary goal...yet this can not happen unless the soul unravels the whole extent of the skipped steps: neptune points back to the s.node, mars points to the n.node as the resolution point. The confusion started in the past, in the far past and the soul has to go backward before it can go forward.....to embrace and understand how it bought into the ‘new’ rules and norms of the patriarchy, and yet originally bought into it out of pure intention...but that intention was abused and mislead by making the soul believe (neptune) that serving the hidden evil intention of those the soul loved and wanted to serve, would actually serve the social whole....while nothing was farther from the truth. It served evil without knowing it....reason being the upside down reality (saturn as the very manifestation of the underlying paradox in this chart! the whole reality structure the soul perceived for a very long time was based on a total upside down paradox!) coming out of it and the skipped steps relative to neptune would apply the saturn symbol’s polarity: what society REALLY needs from the soul, and giving that from the heart with love. As for the other skipped step with mars: this would correlate to the other end of the paradox, can described by placing venus into 11th and aq: applying objectivity to both sides of venus how it perceives oneself and OTHERS. For then through the ‘eyes’ of an aq. embraced venus the objective reality of others will occur before it ends in heartache and trauma....and seeing oneself as a totally EQUAL no more and no less than anybody else WITHIN the paradoxical reality of the ‘maya’ (aquarius!) that we all are different and yet we are just as the rainbow: having the same light in essence yet via the aq. prism, we appear as infinite shades of colors in any mixture...it is the rainbow (maya) that confuses us and yet it is the rainbow that leads us back to the underlying unity within diversity....

I believe this is one of the most important lessons that your soul is trying to learn via all the soul- and heart breaking paradoxes your soul went through just to realise (via fully entering into the 1st spiritual) that it is all okay...every soul makes mistakes, every soul has been confused, every soul has experienced the total desperation of anguish and horror about BOTH OTHERS AND ONESELF! There is no way otherwise....those who believe there is another way are still in neptunian illusion....
so we are all equal (deep within your consciousness there is some conscious knowledge about this underlying equality...saturn in aq.)

In this life your soul is culminating all the beliefs that the soul had in the past, and trying to realise the real Source...trying to fully enter into the spiritual state via conscious realisation of what the Source really is about....

On that note one of the most important lesson to learn is not only to recover the paradoxical skipped steps but also embracing them in a way that your soul can really learn to FORGIVE within the embraced fundamental equality that your soul suspected but was confused about (neptune’s pointing back to s.node and saturn) To learn to forgive (pisces) to everyone for their mistakes YOURSELF INCLUDED! It is all about the substance (consciousness) experiencing itself via the experiences it creates for itself....a very confusing term but that’s exactly what we do :-)....and at the end in the TRUE NATURAL GOD/ESS’ EYES we are all equal and equally loved....unconditionally....the mistakes of every soul are totally equal in god/ess’ eyes...why? Because our mistakes are our greatest teachers...we can’t learn from intellectual knowledge we only learn via experiences...

One of the most important thing about this (to me) is the simple knowledge (gemini) that everything has another side...this leads to the higher aspect of mercury/gemini : aquarius...the paradox itself....
and the paradox leads back to the where it came from: the source of the paradox is the Source of all things, god/ess itself...to help and to teach us about our OWN paradoxical nature as a subjective consciousness, soul....we learn objectivity via learning about our own subjectivity.....and via that we can understand other soul’s subjectivity and can see them and ourselves ever more objectively at the end...and that’s what helps us to get ever closer to the ultimate truths, the ultimate meaning, the ultimate ‘goal’ of life...realising what’ behind it all...neptune, 12th, pisces...god/ess itself with eternal love waiting for us with open arms at the end of the rocky journey....and that’s where your soul is heading of course to embrace the natural god, to culminate the false believes embrace, understand and forgive all the consequences but understand and embrace it with LOVE and COMPASSION instead of rejection and judgment towards your own soul....


Well at least that’s how I see it....so again I agree to a certain degree what Lesley have seen in the chart, what I am saying is just that IT IS NOT THE WHOLE picture, it is but a consequence (confused and paradoxical consequence) of what happened before....

I hope this make sense?

Blessings
Lia





« Last Edit: Jun 15, 2009, 06:55 AM by Lia » Logged
Lesley
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 15, 2009, 11:14 AM »

Hi Stephen,

It is so wonderful to see you moving firmly into the EA community by following your Soul’s desire to find the healing, support, and commiseration that it needs. So many of us can relate to your experiences. Because of your natural compassion, sincerity, and purity of intention (Moon/Jupiter/Chiron in 12th/Pisces, oppose Pluto in Virgo/6th), you are a natural vehicle for healing work, as you already sense within yourself. I know how I feel when I read your words, and how beautifully your intention comes through them -- your Soul speaks directly to others’ Souls. I hope that you will consider doing something with writing (3rd house Sun, 3rd house Mercury in Gemini trine Saturn/South Node in Aquarius/11th, Pluto in Virgo/6th ruled by the Mercury) as you continue to heal, and progressively work to heal others as well.

As I mentioned before, I too am a 6th house Pluto in Virgo (learned/internalized/institutionalized guilt, as through monotheistic religions like Catholicism/Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), and I’ve also got lots of Capricorn/Saturn (natural guilt for misuse of personal abilities in prior lives). I have felt, for many lifetimes now, that I do not deserve to be healed, that God wouldn’t want me back, that God somehow abandoned me...and yet, like you, I have a natural desire to help others, to see others succeed and find peace and happiness (Pluto-Mars opposition, Full phase, with Mars in 12th. Mars also trines Neptune, 1st qtr phase). I’ve had to use my rational Virgo/6th house Moon to ask myself, “Why, if I want others to find joy, do I not want that for myself? Is this really the way God wants it -- that everyone else deserves and receives healing and forgiveness except me?” The narcissism within myself was exposed in an almost humorous way, at that point. Because everybody on the planet has screwed up, at some point(s). In the eyes of God, I believe, no one’s mistakes are any worse than anyone else’s...it is all for the sake of learning, growth, and evolution. Even with the mistakes made, it is a really beautiful path we walk to ever more knowledge and direct experience of God.

Natural guilt is a very natural reaction to actions we took that violated Natural Law: natural guilt (which correlates with Saturn, 10th house, and Capricorn) for violating Natural Law is thus part of Natural Law itself. It is through this natural guilt that we are realigned with Natural Law, and with God. Natural guilt thus serves a very important purpose. But it is when the Soul gets stuck on that natural guilt (or learned guilt....any kind of guilt), that our evolution stalls. This is part of the skipped steps in your chart, with Mars in Taurus in 2nd oppose Neptune in Scorpio in 8th, squaring the nodal axis in Aquarius/11th and Leo/5th, and with Mars-Neptune squaring that natal Saturn as well. Neptune in Scorpio/8th is truly a battle for the Soul between the dual urges of regeneration/metamorphosis and total destruction. Opposed to Mars in gibbous phase (gibbous phase correlates to extreme self-criticism, which can induce self-loathing), there will be spiritual crises and crises within the Soul itself (Scorpio/8th) to induce self-knowledge so that the Soul can make necessary adjustments within itself, which will allow the social role (which correlates to the Full phase opposition at 180 degrees) to be fulfilled in the appropriate way, in concert with Divine Will (Mars oppose Neptune and sq Nodes. Mars and Pluto, as rulers of the solar plexus chakra, correlate to our will, others’ will, and Divine Will).

The notion of karma yoga, or right/appropriate work on behalf of God’dess that is by definition of natural benefit to ourselves and others, is implicated in the Earth triplicity: Virgo (service), Saturn (social position/role), and Taurus (manifestation), but it is most explicitly reflected in the 6th/12th house axis: work (Virgo) on behalf of God (12th), which of course is done on behalf of others. Karma yoga becomes a natural path of evolution (for the self, AND for Universal need) near the end of the 3rd stage of the Individuated condition, which is where your Soul finds itself in the present lifetime. Mars in Taurus/2nd, Pluto in Virgo/6th, Saturn on SNode, and Pisces Moon/Jupiter/Chiron conj Pluto’s polarity point in Pisces/12th, suggest that working on behalf of others will naturally help to heal you, and that is more than okay -- it is necessary. Karma yoga is simply the right or appropriate application of natural gifts and talents given us by God. This naturally leads to a work function and social role that evolves the Soul itself, others’ Souls, and the Creation as a whole...all by our own small efforts, one step at a time (Pluto in 6th/Virgo).

The notion of the beautiful, wonderful, imperfect Natural God is a great idea for a new thread. God, as Creator of all, is the origin and source of the imperfection we personify and experience. Therefore, ultimately (Pisces/12th), there is nothing to forgive or be forgiven for. Judgment (a function of Saturn/10th house/Capricorn), especially unnecessary and excessive judgment, falls away very naturally when we find -- first through intellectual concept, then as direct experience -- that God Itself is an evolving force. Patriarchal religions (another function of Saturn/Capricorn/10th house) enforce the mistaken notion of a ‘perfect’ God that sits in judgment in a detached and punitive manner. The underlying human motive of power, control, and authority, is also reflected in that Capricorn archetype.

All that happens or occurs through application of personal will always and only occurs within the broader context of Divine Will. Thus, we don’t need to be saved or redeemed by some ‘perfect’ god in order to find healing and peace; we need only to redeem and save our concept/definition of God, in order to find the healing and peace that are our birthright.

Stephen, I would like to close by saying that you are already providing so much healing and service to all, simply by posting your chart and sharing your life experiences. I know that I, as an EA practitioner, am extremely humbled by your presence on this board. Your purity of intention and sincerity of purpose are so beautiful to behold. I hope you can see this within yourself, because you shine very brightly, and quite naturally, despite your inner experience of yourself right now, at this point in time. Your current concept of yourself will change....

Just keep going...in the Virgo/6th house manner of your Pluto (and mine!), healing comes one small (but profound) step at a time.

(As always, I welcome any feedback you or others may have...I would never consider myself any kind of ultimate authority, but what I can do is share my direct experiences on my own path to healing -- and I am forever happy and blessed if I am able do so.)

God’dess bless,
Lesley
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