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Rad
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« Reply #30 on: Jun 26, 2009, 10:19 am »

Hi Ari
 Rajneesh aka "Osho", is the very embodiment of the worst of the 2nd Stage spiritual, so, yes, he is a perfect example of this.

 Rad
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Lia
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« Reply #31 on: Jun 27, 2009, 08:34 am »

Hi Everyone,

Interesting flash came to me when I looked at Rajneesh chart here: I remembered a picture of Rajneesh chart that I saw in a book almost two decades ago: the only thing I remembered was the fact that he according to that chart had a 12th house stellium in capricorn and saturn in the 1st house ruling those planets.... this intruged me so I checked 'astro data' and I can see the birth data stated here is correct according to that....however I also noted it states something like: “source: memory" ....so I wonder if it is correct?

Most of the times my memory flashes are correct so I wondered where the heck did I see that chart....

The only things I ever kept in my wondering around the world were my books:-)) ...so this morning I dug more into my memory and I was able to recall a bit more and more; long story short I realised it was in one of Alan Oken's books; I spent most of this morning trying to find the chart and eventually I did find it:-)
BUT unfortunately Oken doesn't give the birth info only the chart itself as one of the examples within his astro explanations (“Alan Oken's Complete Astrology“ page 490)

Well to be honest digging it out was more about wanting to test my own memory than about Rajneesh:-))
But in the meantime I thought it is actually interesting for at the time I read that book I had no knowledge of EA (some 18 years ago when I was in the process of incorporating the english language) but even then this chart made sense to me relative to the events etc...
When I looked at it now again after some 18 years (so now with the 'EA osmosed' view) it made even MORE sense to me....
....so I would like to ask if anyone has some means to clarify what could be the correct birth data and the correct chart?

As Oken doesn't give the birth data let me list here the most important placements of this chart:
AC is 15 capr. 22, MC is 00 scorp. 45 (so IC and DC are the opposite signs of course)
Pluto retro: 21 cancer 43, 7th house just above the horizon
n.node 1 aries 23, falls in 3rd house (Oken used placidus system)
he didn't use the s.node but of course it is the polarity:
1 libra 23, 9th house
sun: 18 sag 17 close, 11th, (very close to 12th cusp which is 21 sag (again with prophyry. sun may or may not change to 12th)
moon: 10 capr. 25 12th
Merc: 06 capr. 21, 12th
venus: 11 capr. 44, 12th
mars:  00 capr. 46 12th
jupiter: retro, 22 leo 38, 8th
saturn: 21 capr. 26, 1st
(ruling all the 12th capr. planets of course while jup in the 8th rules 12th cusp: just makes SO much sense to me at least relative to the historical events, teachings etc; the soul is typically missing itself it's own soul with the 'truths' and pointing to itself instead god...1st saturn then ruling all the 12th planets: total illusion delusion which is self interest based; saturn of course is in almost EXACT opposition to pluto in 7th ONLY 17 second from the absolute full phase)

uranus: retro, 15 aries 32, 3rd house
(this house placement is for sure it is too far from the house cusp. It is in the same sign as n.node, but not  conj.  14 degrees difference; n.node already went through uranus, so new phase)

neptune: retro, 7 virgo 59, 8th

Ok, I came back to this in the afternoon and now I made the hassle to do the easy maths and identify from the AC, MC points the porphyry house cusps. (they are the house placements between the fix AC-DC = 1st and 7th cusps, and MC-IC= 10th and 4th cusps which are the 'skeleton' of the chart)
So the porhhyry cusps would be:
2nd = 20 aq 22,
3rd =  25 pisces 22, (so indeed n.node is in 3rd)
5th =  25 taurus 22
6th =  20 gemini 22
8th = 20 leo 22
9th =  25 virgo 22
11th =  25 scorp. 22,
12th  = 20 sag 22 (so sun is indeed in 11th making much sense- again at least to me)

If anyone has any idea where Oken could have got this chart data and if it can be correct or the astro data given birth date is correct I would really appreciate it;  this would a be an interesting study I believe.

Thanks in advance if anyone is able to help.

Blessings,

Lia





« Last Edit: Jun 27, 2009, 09:39 am by Lia » Logged
adina
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« Reply #32 on: Jun 27, 2009, 09:04 am »

Hi Lia,

I sure can't find anything (so far) to match this chart for Rajneesh, but I think the original fits him SOOO well, especially his preoccupation with sex, and all the orgies, given the 2nd/8th emphasis.  Since I'm a visual learner, I'll have to make a chart showing the planets where you list them, but I'll have to do that later. Hopefully, someone else will come along who can shed some light on this. As you probably already know, Astrodatabank has the same data that Ari posted, except the town is Kutchwada, which doesn't come up in the SF atlas. hmm. (the coordinates are close, however).
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mountainheather
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« Reply #33 on: Jun 27, 2009, 09:51 am »

Hi Deva, just wanted to say thank you for clarifying the question I posted...I so appreciate this . Heather
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Lia
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« Reply #34 on: Jun 27, 2009, 10:22 am »

Hi Adina,


as for his preoccuption with sex and all the rest this chart places jupiter (retro) in the 8th and it rules his 12th...that has a LOT to do with all that.....along with neptune being in the 8th...so all his 'spiritual' teachings are about sex on the one hand, on the other his soul being identified with being the 'source' of truths (jup and neptune in the 8th) ...that 8th jup also rules of course his 11th sun according to this chart....his 'inventing' (11th) the new truths (sag) according to his OWN intentions (jup in 8th in leo)...8cusp is leo ruled by that 11th sun.....
Cancer pluto in 7th: having the evolutionary past to aquire all the knowledge he needed how to be likeable and attract so many people who  at the end all serves his own egocentric (cancer) needs ruled by 12th moon; as it was the most important 'spiritual' (12 house) norm (capr.) that his followers ( 7th house pluto) of course supply all the material needs he had....the intentions (8th house) being justified by jup in leo...how he handles other people's resource (8th house) is defined by leo jup....he himself is the 'truth'....that's the major 'invention' (11th sun)...

7th pluto rules the 11th house, the house of traumas all originate back to pluto the soul itself, how he relates to others and for what motivations and agendas...opp. saturn in 1st...the SILENCE he has declared himself in and didn't even talk to his 'disciples' for many years ..yet in that silence the issues behind the scenes (12th house capr. planet mars wherein) the intention is all about the fact that venus conj. moon in capr. and mars conj. mercury...a lot of delusion of course....believing oneself to be the ultimate 'standard, norm' etc...and that 12th mars rules the n.node and uranus in the 3rd....the actual reality and the feedback from the immediate environment suppose to make him realise his s.node (9th house!) mistake and suppose to shock the soul out of that jupiterian belief/personal identification with the truths...9th house libra s.node: that's another aspect which makes so much sense to me at least...ruled by capr. venus in the 12th conj. moon...his own self image is totally merges with venus= in the past he has been able to many many times fool so many people  (ruler of s.node venus conj. ruler of pluto in 7th! all goes back to the 7th house pluto how to make others 'see' what ever they want to see in him (the projection issue, riding on other people's needs for truth and abusing it for personal, egocentric interest; cancer, his own security is based on that; to manipulate others to like him and follow him)

....sun in 11th: the goal of life is actually to create a trauma (for others AND for himself so that he may liberate from the personal delusion symbolised by the 12th) and uranus in aries 3rd along with n.node: to realise his OWN individual self behind it all, his motivations, agendas etc. instead of hiding in the leonic feedback of others who have been manipulated and again (via many life times!) being attracted around the soul for the same reason....the issue here being the 1st saturn is trying to implement responsibility for ALL the 12th house planets (for the delusions) but there is incredible resistance of course, pluto opposition...the responsibility can be only enforced...it is all repressed and his own personal 'authority' aspect is the only thing he is getting from it.....natural ruler of first of course in the 12th....

The sag sun in 11th, ruled by leo jup in 8th: TYPICALLY point back to each other and nothing else replaces them in the chart...so they are the very nature the soul got 'stuck in' (8th house) one of the typical 'fall from grace' unconscious need is impritned in that...

At least to me this chart visualy embodies the issue of the 2nd spiritual: the soul does embraced spiritual powers, yet it got SO puffed up in it's own soul (leo 8th cusp. leo jup) that it can't see from it's own total delusions ....the personal planets basically all line up in the 12th....he is the alfa and omega (according to himself).....while neptune in 8th trying to teach humility but the message of course is totally distorted within his consciousness because ruler is mercury in 12th conj. mars: the personal agenda and will overcomes the message....how god is trying to speak to him is via the 3rd cusp (pisces) via all the events that happened in the environment and the feedback from people who are not his followers not under his 'magic' ....but he considers himself typically a 'victim' (that's the deluded pisces message of course) and doesn't get the simplicity of the message: just look around and ACCEPT (pisces) the reality that is unfolding in your most immediate environment in your own life....wake up and look; n.node in this way would point to the need of coming off of the pedestal of the 'guru' (9th house=teacher) and restart everything as being just one of the big brotherhood (3rd house) of life (pisces) and face your TRUE individuality (aries) with all the responsibiliies (saturn in 1st, ruler of mars, that is the ruler of the n.node and uranus of course) and accept (pisces) the truama (uranus) that is trying to help you to awake (uranus) and see the objective reality (uranus) about yourself (aries) as it actually IS (3rd house, observing the facts and making sense in simple ways just as is) ....to liberate from the delusion of believing yourself to the source of the 'truths'...

Satun in capr. in 1st: the responsibility is very very delayed and very much resisted by the soul: 7th pluto in cancer.

the 9th s.node seems to make so so much sense to me...while it's ruler is venus, it's natural ruler of course is that 8th house jup....ruling the sun in 11th:
As Wolf put it once "he was not god realised he was 'sexually realised' at the most"

Of course I have no idea if this is correct or the other chart is correct...would be interesting to know....

Blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: Jun 27, 2009, 03:22 pm by Steve » Logged
adina
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« Reply #35 on: Jun 27, 2009, 11:43 am »

I see where you could sure read his life into that chart, Lia. I have looked and looked for another option, but I still couldn't find one that would match Oken's data. If we use the data he did, though, the 22 degree Cap ASC would result in a TIME of 8:48:43 AM. And I consistently come up with Kuchwara (or something close), India, as the place. Coordinates are 23N09; 078E21.

I found a Vedic astrologer who had analyzed Rajneesh's chart, and he used a different time than what Ari posted OR what Oken evidently used. Here's the URL and a blurb explaining why he used the data he did

http://www.khullarastrologyinstitute.com/eg9_5.php

Horary Astrology and Cuspal Interlinks
Example 9.5 Analysis of Acharya Rajneesh’s chart:
Various learned astrologers have analysed the charts of saints and revolutionary thinkers and justified their achievements as per the strength of the rising Ascendant, and placement of planets in the chart. Their expositions, no doubt, match excellence and brilliance of highest quality. Their efforts beautifully demonstrate their knowledge in the field of Astrology. Often I wonder, if during the Ascendant a saint or great spiritual leader was born, when the planetary positions were so excellent then why only a particular saint or a thinker. The great revolutionary thinker of the twentieth century, Acharya Rajneesh, is reported to be born on 11.12.1931 in a Village Kuchwara, in District Raiscin in Madya Pradesh, India. These details have been obtained by great effort by my friend Mr. P.K. Jain, a senior Government officer. Fig 9.5 represents the natal chart of Acharya Rajneesh. I have made an attempt to analyse the chart through my theory of Sub-Sub lord and Cuspal Interlinks with a view to answer the question “Why only one Acharya Rajneesh ?” during the Ascendant which was rising at that time.

Check of Accuracy: It was difficult to know the time of Birth. Different authors have taken different time but all concentrated on the time period between 17.00 hours and 18.00 hours. Efforts were made to find out from persons close to Acharya Rajneesh so as to confirm this time period. The rectified chart is placed in fig 9.5 above.

Possibility of more persons of Acharya Rajneesh’s calibre is limited to about one minute of the Astrological birth time of Acharya Rajneesh. This is so because the Sub-Sub arc of Mercury in Mercury Sub is of 16 minutes and 2 second longitude. The ideal rate of rising of Ascendant is fifteen minutes per one minute of time. During the span of 16 minutes and 2 second longitude itself, the cuspal positions vary to account for the individuality of a specific birth. The analysis is not limited to planetary positions but is based on cuspal interlinks of Sub-Sub arcs of different cuspal positions, which change even for a birth difference in seconds.


Maybe someone else will be able to find something more or different or both! Very Interesting!

 
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Lia
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 27, 2009, 02:31 pm »

Hi Everyone,

I didn't find any data, but a few interesting articles which may worth to qoute here:

Assessments by scholars of religion
Some scholars have suggested that Osho, like other charismatic leaders, may have had a narcissistic personality.[213][214][215] In his paper The Narcissistic Guru: A Profile of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Ronald O. Clarke, Emeritus Professor of Religious Studies at Oregon State University, argued that Osho exhibited all the typical features of narcissistic personality disorder, such as a grandiose sense of self-importance and uniqueness; a preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success; a need for constant attention and admiration; a set of characteristic responses to threats to self-esteem; disturbances in interpersonal relationships; a preoccupation with grooming combined with frequent resorting to prevarication or outright lying; and a lack of empathy.[215] Drawing on Osho's reminiscences of his childhood in his book Glimpses of a Golden Childhood, he suggested that Osho suffered from a fundamental lack of parental discipline, due to his growing up in the care of overindulgent grandparents.[215] Osho's self-avowed Buddha status, he concluded, was part of a delusional system associated with his narcissistic personality disorder; a condition of ego-inflation rather than egolessness.[215]


In questioning how the total corpus of Osho's work might be summarised, Bob Mullan, a sociologist from the University of East Anglia, stated in 1983: "It certainly is eclectic, a borrowing of truths, half-truths and occasional misrepresentations from the great traditions. It is also often bland, inaccurate, spurious and extremely contradictory."[216] He also acknowledged that Osho's range and imagination were second to none,[216] and that many of his statements were quite insightful and moving, perhaps even profound at times,[217] but what remained was essentially "a potpourri of counter-culturalist and post-counter-culturalist ideas" focusing on love and freedom, the need to live for the moment, the importance of self, the feeling of "being okay", the mysteriousness of life, the fun ethic, the individual's responsibility for their own destiny, and the need to drop the ego, along with fear and guilt.[218]

Writing in 1996, Hugh B. Urban similarly found Osho's teaching neither original nor especially profound, noting that most of its content had been borrowed from various Eastern and Western philosophies.[154] What he found most original about Osho was his keen commercial instinct or "marketing strategy", by which he was able to adapt his teachings to meet the changing desires of his audience,[154] a theme also picked up on by Gita Mehta in her book Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East.[219] In 2005, Urban observed that Osho had undergone a "remarkable apotheosis" after his return to India, and especially in the years since his death, going on to describe him as a powerful illustration of what F. Max Müller, over a century ago, called "that world-wide circle through which, like an electric current, Oriental thought could run to the West and Western thought return to the East."[220] By negating the dichotomy between spiritual and material desires, and reflecting the preoccupation with the body and sexuality characteristic of late capitalist consumer culture, Osho had apparently been able to create a spiritual path that was remarkably in tune with the socio-economic conditions of his time.

Hugh B. Urban, Assistant Professor of Religion and Comparative Studies at Ohio State University, noted that Osho appeared to fit with Max Weber’s classical image of the charismatic figure, being held to possess "an extraordinary supernatural power or 'grace', which was essentially irrational and affective".[212] Moreover, Osho corresponded to Weber's pure charismatic type in rejecting all rational laws and institutions and claiming to subvert all hierarchical authority, even though the promise of absolute freedom inherent in this eventually resulted in new and more powerful forms of bureaucratic organisation and institutional control within the sannyasin community.
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Lia
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« Reply #37 on: Jun 27, 2009, 03:38 pm »

Thanks so much Steve for putting up the chart!
You are a blessing to this community - in more than one way!

(sometimes I wonder how marvelously god/ess 'organises' things even via the most 'mundane' ways...what would we do without someone with computer knowledge? Grin)

Love and blessings,
Lia
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stephen
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« Reply #38 on: Jun 28, 2009, 05:59 am »

Hi Everyone,

I was wanted to say thanks for this thread.  It has really helped me to understand some of the nuances in the overall progression of the Soul through the Evolutionary Stages.

Adina and I had a conversation earlier, and she is going to start a new post talking about her observations on evolutionary stages, how to spot them in people, and the types of questions and mistakes people new to this paradigm tend to make while learning about stages.  Please all feel free to join in and ask questions, offer insights, etc. 

I look forward to that posting, but most importantly, I hope that you are well Adina.

Blessings,
Stephen
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ari moshe
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« Reply #39 on: Jun 28, 2009, 11:25 am »

the 8th house neptune seems fitting. it feels like there ought to be some heavy 8th house happening. also mars in cap in the 12th makes a lot of sense- and the lack of strucutre in early life fits cap in the 12th.

in the astro data chart (btw from google map, jabalpur=kutchwada), venus moon and saturn both end up in cap in the 8th house- and that would really explain the financial and sexual stuff as well. Saturn opposing second house pluto for sure. however I feel that in his autobiography, there would have been more about poverty or hard times or something like that. rather in his book autobiography of a spiritually incorrect mystic he mostly spoke about being silent as a child and spending a lot of time alone in nature- being far from parental authority. that speaks strongly to the cap 12th house stuff.

maybe one of us will do some fun solar arc work.





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chuck h
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« Reply #40 on: Jul 04, 2009, 09:20 am »

Good morning to all!

I have a question about stages of spiritual growth...whether it's possible to move from one to another in a single lifetime?  Our physical actions, and those promptings from within are observable to us, but the actuality as to 'where' we end up, stage-wise, is pre-ordained in our chart...right?  Once made aware of these 'conditions', doesn't the 'knowing' provide impetus for additional growth/expansion, possibly even major leaps?

This begs the question:  Do we have the power to create our reality…and if so, with what limitations?  This question is asked in humbleness, with the hope to move closer to Source.  Relativity of stages is unimportant.  These are only words...and maybe this alone answers the question.  Pluto conjunct NN in ninth, in Leo wants only to move as far forward as possible…

Having been led to your wonderful site by my friend, Linda, another spiritual dimension is opening for me.  For example, the idea of an imperfect God/ess (Ess/God  Smiley) struck a chord and invites much pondering and many intriguing questions, but I'm not there yet.  First, perspective must be obtained.  I recognize, or should I say ‘glimpse’ from time to time, Oneness (tho can’t conceptualize), so if a part of the whole (Source) is capable of creativity, aren’t all parts?  All That IS comes Thru us, then, not from us.  We are vehicles from which LOVE can express in ITS myriad ways.  Oneness.

Beginning in the early 80's, There was a major transformation within, spurred, and reinforced by outer discoveries...treasures, really.  This path is laden with givers, which is the tell-tell sign of truth.   That there are some who jump on this path strictly for material gain is of no consequence to me.  I wish only to be single-minded in the quest...Truth finding its mark unerringly in the heart.

Anyway, this first transformation was away from the major belief systems of the world whose ‘followers’ believe in the traditional patriarchal God, separate and rationing out blessings and punishment based on our ‘keeping the commandments’.   The rich soil from which newness began to blossom is nurtured, primarily, by the ever-expanding acceptance of our inherent creativity…which is enacted thru every thought, word and action.  There have been countless evidences that it is so.  Jesus' only condition is that we have the faith of a mustard seed.  Of couse, that seed appears to be the size of a mountain in out barely awakened state (speaking of self).  Mabe I have answered my own question again? 

As T-Pluto moves thru Capricorn, the key to understanding Jesus’ words will become more and more apparent, it is hoped.  Before consciously creating, responsibility must be assumed…the responsibility to love and nourish each creation…in the highest sense of the word.

So, to end this ramble, the main question for now is:  What is the EA view of the Deepak Chopras and Wayne Dyers of the world…who teach to the max this concept that we create our own reality?  And what is the difference between this, and EA’s understanding?

I truly love reading your words here…all of you, and am looking forward with relish to your responses.
Love and magnificent obsessions,
chuck
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Rad
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« Reply #41 on: Jul 04, 2009, 09:50 am »

Hi Chuck,

So, to end this ramble, the main question for now is:  What is the EA view of the Deepak Chopras and Wayne Dyers of the world…who teach to the max this concept that we create our own reality?  And what is the difference between this, and EA’s understanding?

************************************************************************

 The main difference is that EA reflects natural laws, the natural laws of the Source or God. It is true that we can create our maximum potential in any given life relative to the limitations of what is possible in any given life. As Wolf so often said: 'If it's not possible, in this life, for a person to be the President of the USA, no matter how much that Soul may try to 'create' being a President, if it's not possible within the Soul's potential in that life, it just is not going to happen'.
 So EA is all about realizing what is possible for any given Soul in any given life and to encourage each Soul to do just that. As the same time it is allows for an awareness of what IS NOT POSSIBLE IN ANY GIVEN LIFE. And thus can council others, or the person itself, to these facts as well.

  Rad
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chuck h
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« Reply #42 on: Jul 04, 2009, 11:40 am »

Thank you for the easy to understand, common sense clarification, Rad!

chuck
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Steve
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« Reply #43 on: Jul 04, 2009, 11:48 am »

Hi Chuck

Adding to Rad's "what is possible for any given Soul in any given life", is that relates to the program for a lifetime that the Soul creates prior to entering that lifetime.  There are parameters or limits (the Soul correlates to Pluto, and Pluto correlates to limits) within which a life will play out.  

When I encounter Chopra and Dyer types, I sometimes ask "Who is desiring to create these realities, the personality or the soul?".  Too often I find people holding the "create your own reality" perspective don't make enough distinction between the two.  The nature of reality is, in the end the Soul wins.  If the personality longs for something that's not aligned with the Soul's intentions, in the end it won't be possible to create that reality.    

Most of us are not conscious of our Soul's intentions, so striving for things we later realize we can not achieve is one way we become aware of the intentions/workings of our Soul.  In other words, even if, in the end, we realize something we've worked very hard for just can not be, it's not been a waste of time. Because through that process we have learned more about the nature of our Soul, and the evolutionary intents/limits of this lifetime.

Quote
I have a question about stages of spiritual growth...whether it's possible to move from one to another in a single lifetime?  Our physical actions, and those promptings from within are observable to us, but the actuality as to 'where' we end up, stage-wise, is pre-ordained in our chart...right?  Once made aware of these 'conditions', doesn't the 'knowing' provide impetus for additional growth/expansion, possibly even major leaps?

First, you can not see within a natal chart the person's evolutionary stage.  That also means you can't see the evolutionary stage they are intended to wind up in.

There are 3 major stages of evolution, and 3 sub-stages within each of those 3 stages.   It can take hundreds of thousands of years to advance through those 9 archetypes.  This is difficult to grasp, because our reference of time is what I call the 80 year horizon.  To the human, the 80 year average life span seems like a really long time.  Yet, relative to the evolutionary journey of a Soul, 80 years is perhaps ten seconds.  So in general the evolutionary progress within a single life, from our 80 year lifespan perspective, doesn't seem like much.  No one is coming in as 2nd stage consensus and leaving as 3rd stage individuated.  

It takes a series of lives to go through a single sub-stage. Someone coming in at 3rd stage consensus could possibly advance to 1st stage individuated in a life, but in most cases they would have been near the end of 3rd stage consensus on entering the life.  And they leave with two toes in the water of Indiv stage 1 - just barely begun.  Wolf said a Soul can be stationed at the cusp between two stations, such as 1st stag indiv and 2nd stag indiv, for a series of lives, with a certain amount of back and forth behaviors.

Changing evolutionary stations is major.  Most Souls can only integrate the necessary emotional changes at what seems like a slow pace.  To the Soul undergoing those changes, they do not FEEL slow, they can feel like more than they can handle.   From our 80 year lifespan perspective, the pace of evolution appears slow.  Soul progress comes from developing an attitude of slow but steady. "Steady" means developing inner determination and drive to keep moving forward no matter what, no matter how long it takes.
Steve
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2009, 02:59 pm by Steve » Logged

chuck h
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« Reply #44 on: Jul 04, 2009, 03:27 pm »

Steve,

Thank you very much for explaining that it would be wise to just slow down...and why.

The point you make about personality vs soul is well taken, and helps me understand 'reality-creationers better.  But they provide a valuable lesson along the path, don't you think?  Where 'religion' conditions us to think we are separate and powerless, the Chopras, et all encourage us to take responsibility for our thoughts, words and actions.  None of the 'real' R. C.'s claim glory for the personality.  Instead they speak of Oneness...that Source blesses us with his/her gift of creativity.  This feels right to me, and has for many years (a split-second  Wink).  These are not pompous people.  They speak of love, giving and humility.  They offer sincere gratitude for this gift.  I understand that is the same with dedicated 'preaches' of religion...but that does not FEEL right.

Maybe I'm all wet, but we are encouraged to 'trust ourselves'.  What then does this mean if not to go with what, thru observation and experience, feels right?  What other guidance is there?  Does it mean I'm not 'far enough along' to recognize Truth and Love?  That Chopra and Dyer are in it for material Gain?  (to be honest, tho, there is a part of me that always peeks up to ask why those who know truth...would sell it?)

Well, now I'm getting confused again.  Mostly, talking to myself, trying to express things to see what I know and don't know.  I sincerely hope no one is offended by my questions, they are from a soul struggling to understand, to have it all fall into place...and I seem to be stuck.  Hopefully better questions will come after this stuff tumbles around a bit.

Thank you again, Steve.  Smiley

peacefully,
chuck





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