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ari moshe
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 19, 2012, 09:27 AM »

Thank you Rad, I'm really grateful for the detail and clarity you are offering here.

I would like to check to see if I understand the full scope of this Chiron signature.
Chiron is semi square Pluto. It is conjunct the ruler of Pluto, and furthermore his sn in the 5th house squares the nodes of Chiron as well as the sn of Pluto - would this also provide further context for the dynamic of having been narcissisticly self involved and narrow minded to the point of performing actions that had the effect of creating massive trauma for other souls, all linked to the bottom line of this soul incarnating to actualize a unique purpose on behalf of the totality - work that will totally connect him with others in the ways that are actually needed - PPP relative to the nn and its ruler in libra in the second squaring the nodes?

My intuition is that these signatures, in part, imply prior lifetimes of having been a king, a leader for large groups of people - a particular tribe or religion (sn of Chiron in the 9th. 9th house ruled by Mars which is conj neptune and square Saturn his sn ruler, in the 11th house Cancer which is ruled then by the Moon back in Libra in the second) and was in a way "secluded and oblivious" from the actual reality of the common people - Saturn in the 11th relative to the second house dynamics.
 
Specific to Chiron, being trine the sn and all the second house connections, as its own sn being in Taurus in the 9th - that this soul was stubborn about its own beliefs and ideologies, to the point of creating rules and laws (relative to Capricorn, square to Uranus in 10th) that other groups of people were to follow but that were not actually best for all people. And that his Chiron in this life, being balsamic to the Sun, and with such a strong 5th house/leo karma, along with a new phase semi square (slowing down), points to re-evaluating his own special purpose, and how that does and does not come into alignment with the actual needs of others? Within this, the nn of Chiron being conj Venus and Moon (ruler of Cancer nn), squaring the nodes in Libra in the second - he's learning how to walk this earth in a completely new way, perhaps his next life or soon to be life as a woman?

God bless,
Ari Moshe

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Steven
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 19, 2012, 04:05 PM »

Hi, Rad, Ari and all,

As always, many thanks for this thread. I am struck by how frequently a soul desire "to atone" seems to lead to lifetimes where the inner orientation seems to create/attract even more troublesome issues for which the soul sees itself as guilty, perpetuating the desire/need to atone. There is definitely a trajectory here, and one that seems equally rough whether the initial guilt was natural or unnatural in origin.

My first question is whether, in the EA paradigm, this pattern of increasingly "worse" guilt-inducing experiences is seen as inevitable-- ie, just part of an experiential learning process, the only way the soul can learn--- or can we assume that there always alternative responses in each lifetime that would prevent such an ever-deepening spiral of guilt/need to atone?

My second question regards whether there is any essential difference in the healing of karmic guilt issues when their origin is natural, as opposed to unnatural? Specifically in regards to this chart, it seems from the man's current lifetime, as Ari described it, that his guilt and need to please others seems unwarranted in regards to his behavior in this life and might be easily read as "unnatural" guilt. Does knowing that the initial cause of this guilt was natural in origin mean that he might actually respond better to a different therapeutic approach, one that treats the guilt as valid, perhaps?

Many thanks,

Steven

« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2012, 09:45 PM by Steven » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 20, 2012, 07:34 AM »

Thank you Rad, I'm really grateful for the detail and clarity you are offering here.

I would like to check to see if I understand the full scope of this Chiron signature.
Chiron is semi square Pluto. It is conjunct the ruler of Pluto, and furthermore his sn in the 5th house squares the nodes of Chiron as well as the sn of Pluto - would this also provide further context for the dynamic of having been narcissisticly self involved and narrow minded to the point of performing actions that had the effect of creating massive trauma for other souls, all linked to the bottom line of this soul incarnating to actualize a unique purpose on behalf of the totality - work that will totally connect him with others in the ways that are actually needed - PPP relative to the nn and its ruler in libra in the second squaring the nodes?

My intuition is that these signatures, in part, imply prior lifetimes of having been a king, a leader for large groups of people - a particular tribe or religion (sn of Chiron in the 9th. 9th house ruled by Mars which is conj neptune and square Saturn his sn ruler, in the 11th house Cancer which is ruled then by the Moon back in Libra in the second) and was in a way "secluded and oblivious" from the actual reality of the common people - Saturn in the 11th relative to the second house dynamics.
 
Specific to Chiron, being trine the sn and all the second house connections, as its own sn being in Taurus in the 9th - that this soul was stubborn about its own beliefs and ideologies, to the point of creating rules and laws (relative to Capricorn, square to Uranus in 10th) that other groups of people were to follow but that were not actually best for all people. And that his Chiron in this life, being balsamic to the Sun, and with such a strong 5th house/leo karma, along with a new phase semi square (slowing down), points to re-evaluating his own special purpose, and how that does and does not come into alignment with the actual needs of others? Within this, the nn of Chiron being conj Venus and Moon (ruler of Cancer nn), squaring the nodes in Libra in the second - he's learning how to walk this earth in a completely new way, perhaps his next life or soon to be life as a woman?

God bless,
Ari Moshe



Hi Ari,

In terms of various prior lives symbolized in the total signature of his Soul, the signature that we have been focusing on here, the answer is yes. The very last life brought all this to a head which has lead into the Soul's current life. The key in that last life was the very nature of the accident that he was responsible for that lead to the death of others which included many who did not die yet who were injured in various ways. All of those who died, were injured, and through extension all the other family members of these people who of course had to suffer in their own ways because of this were 'innocent' Souls. This was then the key because in the types of the related lives that you are speaking too the Soul was always able to 'rationalize', Mercury, Virgo, the 9th House S.Node of Chiron where the rationalization was then linked with 'beliefs' the nature of it's actions. This rationalization could not be applied to the nature of the accident that it was responsible for. The SHOCK of that fact then became the trigger for then creating the very opposite of what the Soul once was.

God Bless, Rad
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Upasika
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 20, 2012, 07:40 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for your detailed reply, that's really helped me to see the full extent of the situation in the chart (especially with all the repeating themes stacking up in the root like that).

blessings Upasika
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Rad
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 20, 2012, 07:51 AM »

Hi Steven,

Hi, Rad, Ari and all,

As always, many thanks for this thread. I am struck by how frequently a soul desire "to atone" seems to lead to lifetimes where the inner orientation seems to create/attract even more troublesome issues for which the soul sees itself as guilty, perpetuating the desire/need to atone. There is definitely a trajectory here, and one that seems equally rough whether the initial guilt was natural or unnatural in origin.

My first question is whether, in the EA paradigm, this pattern of increasingly "worse" guilt-inducing experiences is seen as inevitable-- ie, just part of an experiential learning process, the only way the soul can learn--- or can we assume that there always alternative responses in each lifetime that would prevent such an ever-deepening spiral of guilt/need to atone?

****************

The EA paradigm is only reflecting, symbolizing, life in it's totality. Of itself it causes nothing. Each Soul is unique to itself. The choices each Soul makes, and the reasons for those choices, is also unique to each Soul. Relative to the archetype of atonement linked with guilt each Soul reacts, and thus makes choices, differently. The natural process leading any Soul to finally be free of needing to atone for whatever guilt, natural or unnatural, is different for all Souls. And, of course, much depends on the very nature of the causative factors for the guilt in the first place: the extent and extremity of it. If any given Soul were responsible, say, for the deaths of a great many people due to it's negligence how long would it take for such a Soul to stop atoning for this fact ? If it were you Steven how long do you think that might be ? If it were someone else how long do you think it may take for that person to be free of atoning for such a guilt ? There is just no way to know. Each Soul is different.

*********************

My second question regards whether there is any essential difference in the healing of karmic guilt issues when their origin is natural, as opposed to unnatural? Specifically in regards to this chart, it seems from the man's current lifetime, as Ari described it, that his guilt and need to please others seems unwarranted in regards to his behavior in this life and might be easily read as "unnatural" guilt. Does knowing that the initial cause of this guilt was natural in origin mean that he might actually respond better to a different therapeutic approach, one that treats the guilt as valid, perhaps?

********************

The key issue here is whether the guilt in natural or not. When guilt occurs to a Soul that is natural then  that very nature of that guilt, the events that have caused it, will stay within the Soul forever. It does this so that the Soul will never repeat the causes or actions that lead to the natural guilt. On the other hand, any guilt that is within the Soul that is not natural can and will be expelled from the Soul at some point. Thus when dealing with clients it is very important to understand this critical difference which then dictates how a client dealt with relative to a therapeutic approach.

******************


God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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Posts: 1231


« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2012, 09:29 AM »

Hi Rad,
I have another chart that has an emphasized Chiron. I would like to look at this here so I may receive further guidance for understanding the archetype of guilt as it relates to Chiron.



Female, first stage spiritual.
One main theme here is where this soul, having acted out of self interest (pluto second), has lied about her own authority, expertise, position (10th house, lying Gemini) and has in so doing affected various crisis (6th house) that has had the effect of creating immense guilt within her soul. The pattern of duplicity within this is implied by the strong Gemini emphasis squaring the nodes, and the ruler of that Gemini, Mercury in Taurus in opposition to Pluto in the second emphasizing the use of words and trickery for personal desires. Dishonesty also implied with the Venus in the 9th.

All this has then lead to incomplete disciplineships with various mentors/practices - seeking the "easy way out" and not applying full effort, but rather using various tricks and means to get ahead quicker than she was capable of. Thus the skipped steps.

Recently she almost made the choice to get a degree in some alternative therapy training in a mainstream, but still alternative school. She decided that that is too restrictive for her and that she was only going to do it because she thought that she needed to go that path in order to have an impact. She realizes now that she does desire to practice and study and that it doesn't have to be through a formal school setting.

When I heard her speak that I immediately thought of her Chiron in Gemini. My main question here is, relative to the nature guilt that exists in this soul for how she has lied and acted out of self interest in the past, does this Chiron signature imply the lesson to to take it one step at a time, even in the face of limited resources, and to simply "do the right thing" by the highest standards possible, and to be trained/to grow in that way?

Relative to the nature of Chiron, is this more about her taking the steps to do what she is here to do and to define her own credentials by way of taking those steps with patience and surrender? Not necessarily "getting a degree?" I want to ask what specific social credentials would be required with Chiron up on the MC as I don't feel I grasp the totality of what this signature requires...

Since Saturn does oppose this Chiron in full phase, along with new phase with Uranus, both squaring the nodes - this will eventually lead to a construction of a particular institution/structure that will serve others that are in need of such services - the archetype of an orphanage type environment, Neptune ruling the nn, that will include a multi faceted approach to healing (Gemini and all the mutable energies).

Thank you for any feedback/guidance you are called to offer.
God bless,
am
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Rad
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2012, 12:55 PM »

Hi Rad,
I have another chart that has an emphasized Chiron. I would like to look at this here so I may receive further guidance for understanding the archetype of guilt as it relates to Chiron.



Female, first stage spiritual.
One main theme here is where this soul, having acted out of self interest (pluto second), has lied about her own authority, expertise, position (10th house, lying Gemini) and has in so doing affected various crisis (6th house) that has had the effect of creating immense guilt within her soul. The pattern of duplicity within this is implied by the strong Gemini emphasis squaring the nodes, and the ruler of that Gemini, Mercury in Taurus in opposition to Pluto in the second emphasizing the use of words and trickery for personal desires. Dishonesty also implied with the Venus in the 9th.

All this has then lead to incomplete disciplineships with various mentors/practices - seeking the "easy way out" and not applying full effort, but rather using various tricks and means to get ahead quicker than she was capable of. Thus the skipped steps.

Recently she almost made the choice to get a degree in some alternative therapy training in a mainstream, but still alternative school. She decided that that is too restrictive for her and that she was only going to do it because she thought that she needed to go that path in order to have an impact. She realizes now that she does desire to practice and study and that it doesn't have to be through a formal school setting.

When I heard her speak that I immediately thought of her Chiron in Gemini. My main question here is, relative to the nature guilt that exists in this soul for how she has lied and acted out of self interest in the past, does this Chiron signature imply the lesson to to take it one step at a time, even in the face of limited resources, and to simply "do the right thing" by the highest standards possible, and to be trained/to grow in that way?

Relative to the nature of Chiron, is this more about her taking the steps to do what she is here to do and to define her own credentials by way of taking those steps with patience and surrender? Not necessarily "getting a degree?" I want to ask what specific social credentials would be required with Chiron up on the MC as I don't feel I grasp the totality of what this signature requires...

Since Saturn does oppose this Chiron in full phase, along with new phase with Uranus, both squaring the nodes - this will eventually lead to a construction of a particular institution/structure that will serve others that are in need of such services - the archetype of an orphanage type environment, Neptune ruling the nn, that will include a multi faceted approach to healing (Gemini and all the mutable energies).

Thank you for any feedback/guidance you are called to offer.
God bless,
am

Hi Ari,

In her Soul context this will mean that she at first admits what she has done and why, and then to only speak or help others with WHAT SHE ACTUALLY KNOWS versus what all the information systems that she has taken into herself that she has used to present herself as knowing things that she actually does not know. This then requires a core humbling of her Soul which is symbolized by her Chiron/Venus squaring her Nodal Axis. In so doing she will then utterly reformulate her own Soul self image which is essential before she attempts to help anyone else.

Then, depending on what she wants to do by way of being of service to others, which is part of her Soul intention and program, determine if that requires the external credentials to do so or not.

God Bless, Rad
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