This is our next subject/ topic that has been put together from the old message board by Adina Mather. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. God Bless, Rad
(Q): When a retrograde planet goes direct after birth and transits back over its natal point, will this create the occurrence of some key event to provide a foundation/memory in order to support the planet's intended individuated definition? And in the case of Saturn, would this be like a mini Saturn return?
(A): Yes to both questions.
(Q): I have a client who has 4 planets retrograde in his chart: Pluto retrograde at 25 degrees Virgo in the 2nd House, Uranus retrograde at 4 degrees Libra - in the 2nd, Jupiter retrograde at 27 degrees Libra in the 3rd, and Neptune retrograde at 29 degrees Scorpio in the 4th. Do four retrograde planets constitute a retrograde chart? I seem to remember you saying that, but it was a long time ago and I'm not sure. Does it make a difference if they are outer or inner planets?
In this case they are mostly outer. Is there any hard and fast rule for a retrograde chart? According to the evolutionary paradigm, in which outer planets affect you individually as well as collectively, would this be a retrograde chart? Logic dictates that it would also depend on the aspects the retrograde planets are making to each other and other planets. This person's South node is at 7 Virgo in the first house, with the planetary ruler Mercury conjunct Saturn at 14 Taurus in the ninth conjunct the midheaven at 18 Taurus, which is trine his second house Pluto retrograde at 24 Virgo. Pluto also squares Mars at 22 Gemini, conjunct Venus at 29 Gemini, both in the 11th; squares the Moon at 17 Sag in the 4th, conjuncts Uranus retro at 4 Virgo in the 2nd; this conjunction sextiles Neptune Retrograde at 19 Scorpio in the 4th. Neptune retrograde is the ruler of his N Node in Pisces in the 7th house. Neptune is also opposite the Sun at 0 degrees Gemini in the 10th. The Sun is the ruler of his 21 degree Leo Ascendant. Uranus Retrograde squares Venus and trines the Sun; Jupiter Retrograde trines Venus and Mars. Mars and Pluto are in a Last Quarter Square, crisis in consciousness, and the Moon in Sagittarius is opposite Mars in Gemini. I would say with all these significant aspects, that this is a retrograde chart. Yes? No?
(A): In short, yes, that would be a retrograde chart. In Jungian terms this would be considered an 'introverted' type of personality.
Retrograde Lunar Nodes
(Q): I have a question regarding Retrograde lunar nodes in a birth chart. Would this just stand to reinforce the meaning of planets squaring the nodal axis? i.e., the nature of skipped steps and repeating the past in order to get to the future?
(A): Yes. If a planet, or planets, are squaring the nodes, they emphasize the skipped steps. Remember too that the nodes are retrograde most of the time. Only occasionally are they 'direct.'
(Q): This client has a child who has the Sun conjunct Venus retrograde, the North Node and Jupiter Scorpio in the 11th conjunct Pluto in Scorpio in the 12th. Mercury is retrograde at 10 Libra. Mars/Moon in Leo in the 8th square all the 11th house planets. A Neptune/Uranus conjunction in Capricorn in the 2nd house squares the retrograde Mercury. In Pluto II you talk about the Mars in Leo person and how they will resist any person who attempts to restrict any experience that they feel they need to experience. Of course, this couple is having a time getting their child to listen and is afraid that the child will be out of control. The boy is already getting into huge problems at school. At least 80 percent of the chart is in fixed houses and signs and I can see everything that they are talking about. I also suspect a lot of prior life abuse in the chart which seems to be played out, as the child tries to lay guilt trips on these totally loving parents in other ways (i.e., "You don’t love me," when he doesn't get his way etc.) But, I am not sure how the retrograde Mercury in Libra is playing its part because I cannot grasp the simple Mercury retrograde concept. I would like to help the parents with a way to be able to communicate with their child in a way that will penetrate his brain so that everyone can have some peace, including the child. Any thoughts?
(A): What you have here is a child who has been utterly unable to accept the responsibility for his own actions (Mercury retrograde in the 10th) and who has found it much easier to feel victimized by life because that then allows him to 'blame' others, to 'act' out on others and to feel that 'others,' including the parents, (10th house Mercury retrograde) owe him everything.
What is behind this is a soul who in other times had a tremendous amount of inherited power, including inherited wealth. In those lives, he severely abused that power and wealth in the form of a tyrant who delusively felt that all was to benefit him; thus, the rationalizations to abuse and torture others for his own needs and ends. This then set up some lives after that in which he experienced exactly what he had been creating for others in those lives. This is when the victimization began, with no ability to understand the causative factor that was responsible for these kind of lives: himself.
This included one life in which he was born as a 'bastard' and given to others to raise. Those others are the current life parents. In that life the parents did all that they could do to raise the boy in a supportive and positive way. Yet because they were not 'his' parents and he knew it, they became the 'lightning' rods for his displaced emotions that were the result of his being removed from his birth mother. Thus, the irrational displays of anger and accusations. The power plays and manipulations all centered around trying to create a sense of guilt within them.
The possible antidote to all this, beyond the life lesson that he is still trying to learn to accept the responsibility for his own actions, is correct 'socialization' (the 11th house planets square the Mars and the 2nd house Uranus). To me, this socialization must start with the correct school environment, like a Montessori or Steiner school. Both of these emphasize correct social behavior: how to treat others. That is what I would recommend. I would also recommend that they get him into some relevant therapy that can focus on teaching me to become responsible for his own actions.
(Q): That is simply amazing because in this life the child's genetic father left before he was born, and the current step-father has been raising him since before he was two (he is now six). The parents have not told the boy about his real father who is really not interested in the boy. They are concerned about the day that the truth finally comes out and how and when to tell him about this situation.
(Q): I understand that a retrograde planet in the natal chart represents the dynamic of individuation and a "rebelling" against what society/consensus sees as normal behavior for that planet's archetype. How does this retrograde principle apply to Uranus, which in direct motion is a rebelling, individuating archetype?
(A): It simply intensifies the intrinsic action of liberation or rebellion, and yet the act of liberation or rebellion itself becomes highly individualistic.
(Q): What is the nature of Jupiter retrograde? How does Jupiter retrograde in Gemini manifest?
(A): Typically, this symbol correlates to a soul who has desired to investigate a diversity of knowledge systems from various times and cultures relative to an underlying desire to know the 'truth.' As a result, the soul has collected way too much information relative to this desire that then becomes the basis or cause of cycles of philosophical or intellectual clarity mixed with cycles of an almost complete loss of anything making sense because the variety of information collected begins to conflict with itself. The intention of this symbol is to eliminate all unnecessary information, to stop the random collection of information, and to focus on 'one' system of philosophical or metaphysical thought that serves as a 'foundation' upon which all other information or thoughts can be integrated. This system must be inwardly experienced (Jupiter retrograde) so that the immediacy of actual inner experiences serves as the 'proof' necessary for the foundation to take hold.
(Q): Are retrograde planets meant to stress a lesson by forcing an individual to experience the same lesson over and over? Would retrogrades play a role in recovering skipped steps?
(A): It is not that they enforce the 'same lesson' being learned over and over; it is about recreating prior life dynamics in the context of the current life via the circumstances that trigger the old dynamics, the new intent of which is to make new choices, thus evolve, in the face of the circumstances that trigger the old dynamics. If the retrograde planet is aspecting the nodal axis thru a square, then the issue of skipped steps is implicated, i.e., recreating the circumstances/ dynamics that were avoided or not completely developed in prior lifetimes.
(Q): I just want to make sure I understand the concept of oblique retrogrades that was discussed on the Pluto School tapes. Let's use the example of Saturn retrograde opposing Venus, which is not retrograde. If I understand the oblique retrograde correctly, the Venus function will be impacted by the retrograde Saturn. Is the oblique retrograde? Will the Venus function also act like a retrograde? If Saturn retrograde is also making aspects to four other planets, are they all in oblique retrograde and will all act like they are in retrograde?
(A): Yes to all of it. The main thing to understand is that when a planet is retrograde and making aspects to whatever other planets, the other planets only function like a retrograde in relation to the actual planet that is retrograde. For example, the Venus opposed to Saturn retrograde means that Saturn is the causative factor for the Venus having a retrograde function, but only as it applies to the Saturn archetype. If that same Venus was aspecting other planets that were not retrograde, then that Venus functions like a non-retro Venus in general, and to those other planets specifically, and only assumes a retrograde function relative to the planet it is aspecting that is retrograde.
(Q): Could you please explain the effects that retrograde asteroids have on planets and the individual's life?
(A): It is the same principle of having retrograde planets aspecting non-retro planets: what I have called 'oblique' retrogrades.
(Q): You have given a general definition of retrogrades that applies to all retrograde planets, and you have shared with us the meanings of Pluto, Saturn and Uranus Retrograde. My question is about Neptune retrograde and how to observe it, relative to evolutionary stages, within a chart.
Knowing that Neptune Retrograde, as all planets, must be given individual definition and creates a reactive retreat from the status quo, and maintains a non-static, continual growth for the lifetime, and knowing that Neptune itself is a symbol for the Source of Creation--the Ocean metaphor-- does Neptune retrograde symbolize a soul in retreat from status quo concepts of the Source? A soul at whatever evolutionary level that has an emphasis of desire to return to Source? A soul in which emphasis towards clarity is emphasized, which could include creating confusion, disorientation, humiliation, disillusionment, fantasy, a "God-complex," etc.? And within this, would the intention be to learn, among other lessons, what judgment is and is not, to sort out fantasy versus truth, and to release victim/martyr complexes, or at least to begin to see how this works internally? Am I on the right track?
(A): Yes, what you have come up with is accurate. Also remember that the natal placement of Neptune, the house ruled by Pisces, and the aspects that Neptune is making all correlate in any chart to where the individual is meant to naturally actualize the Neptune archetype, including the natural way for a person to develop their spiritual life--connect to the Source. When it is retrograde, this is meant to be done in a totally individual way, developed or actualized within. Neptune retrograde points to Pluto. It's like a door open to Pluto. This is the same, for example, as Saturn retrograde; it points to Uranus. Uranus retrograde points to Neptune. When an outer planet like Neptune is retrograde, the intention is to deepen the consciousness, to create a new center of gravity within consciousness relative to its evolutionary expansion.
(Q): When I observe a chart that has multiple outer planet retrogrades--Saturn through Pluto--is the assumption that this soul has chosen a life of intense soul growth correct?
(A): Yes, and remember the more retrogrades there are, the higher degree of 'introversion' within a consciousness. With four or more retrogrades, a person is typically highly introverted and socially alienated. There is an internal compression within consciousness that is similar to squeezing an orange to make juice; thus, compression of the consciousness to induce deep internal realizations of one kind or another.
(Q): In evolutionary astrology, what is the interpretation of having no planets that are retrograde?
(A): There is a minimum of prior life dynamics, relatively speaking, that impact and condition the current life.
Retrograde Nodes and Life Purpose
(Q): You have said that "generally speaking" those souls who have the nodal axis retrograde seem to come to their life purpose later in life, while those who have the nodal axis direct seem to know it earlier. Yet, I have seen some souls with that retrograde nodal axis actually come into their life purpose early on in life. (even one who has the Sun square the nodes). Would there be a way to tell from the chart whether a soul with a retrograde nodal axis would realize their purpose earlier in life, rather than later? Could it be related to the aspect that Pluto is making to the nodes?
(A): Yes. Pluto aspecting the nodes, the Sun or the Moon can do that. It is also related to the evolutionary condition or state. Those in the more evolved states tend to have this ability.
(A): Do you have any specific advice for parents of children who have Venus retrograde as far as what they can expect from them as behavior that might be different from other children?
(Q): Venus retrograde kids are highly internalized little souls who do not relate to external reality as most people do. Venus retrogrades more rarely than any other planet; it only retrogrades every 542 days or so. Because of the internalized relationship, such souls are highly supersensitive to the environment and react thru their feeling body in intense ways, where the feeling reaction triggers the emotional reaction to the feelings. This can set in motion thru life a very unpredictable relatedness pattern to others, from cycles of deep withdrawal and not wanting to be disturbed at all to cycles of 'coming' out of themselves in ways that are also unpredictable.
For example, they can swing from great spontaneous joy for no reason that is apparent to others to intense rage and quite disturbing behavior. These are reactions to what has been going on internally, and thus the acting that out. Such souls, on an evolutionary level or purpose, intend to define everything about their reality in the most individualistic ways possible. From the individuated state forwards there is a progressive withdrawal and loss of meaning from human relationships, a progressive evolution to the ultimate meaning, and thus relationship to: god/ess. These kinds of souls are also highly creative and, as a result, highly temperamental. They literally march to their own drummer. Evolutionarily speaking, it also means that such souls will be repeating all kinds of relationships, intimate and otherwise, with people that they have known in various centuries, the intent of which is to culminate them completely.
Parents of such children need to make every effort to understand exactly what the individuality of the child is and to parent accordingly. They should encourage the child to relate or talk about his or her feelings--what the child is feeling--as much as possible, to draw the child out of itself and then to discuss exactly what the child wishes to discuss. In such discussions, the parents always need to bring the conversation to the point of asking the child what he or she thinks about this or that. In terms of sharing specific ideas that the parents have, their view of this or that, their beliefs, and so on, they need to present such things in the following way: "This is how I think or feel, what about you?" This then empowers the Venus retrograde child. It is also advisable for the parents to find the types of schools that will honor the child's highly individualistic and creative nature; they do not do well in the typical 8 am to 3 pm standard education program, we learn this at 10 am, that at 11 am and so on.
Above all else, these kids need lots of holding and touching, lots of kisses and told how much they are loved by the parents, who need to make every effort to look directly into the child's eyes when they are communicating with them, especially when discipline in necessary. These kids have 'elephant' memories, so that every hurt, etc., will be registered and remembered. So, when discipline is necessary, it is essential that the parents stay in deep contact with the child's eyes and project love into them even as they are disciplining them.
(Q): To be more specific, there is a seven-year-old boy who has Venus (ruler of the South Node) retrograde at 13 Scorpio conjunct the North Node at 14 Scorpio, Jupiter at 20 Scorpio and Pluto at 27 Scorpio, all in 12th house. The child already asks "Why am I here? What am I supposed to do?" He also threatens to kill himself. When the topic of God comes up or when he brings it up, he wants to know 'why' everything. He goes through cycles of being a very difficult child to the other extreme of being extremely sensitive and generous. How does this specific Venus retrograde play into all of that?
(A): See above. Of course, Venus in Scorpio is the most intense placement of all.
Progress Through Retrograde?
(Q): When a transiting planet passes in direct motion over the degrees it has just retraced in its retrograde cycle, is there a difference in the 'message' from the first time it transited in direct motion over those same degrees?
(A): No. There is simply a 'refinement' of the message throughout the life relative to such transits.
(Q): Is there a difference in the planet itself, other than the different aspects it makes to other planets this time around?
(A): No. Not in terms of the underlying themes and intentions.
Retrograde and Polarity Points
(Q): Is it typical for a polarity point to be more evident when dealing with a retrograde? And would how evident be related to how deeply the individual viewed that part of him or herself?
(A): No. The retrograde archetype can manifest in many ways, including resisting ("r" for retrograde) the evolutionary intentions for any given life.