This will be the last subject/ topic from the old JWG message board that Adina Mather has put together for us. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. God Bless, Rad
(Q): 06-May-1999 Asteroids I have Barbara hand Clow's book on Chiron, is there one of comparative depth on the asteroids that are on the homework charts? I have been unable to locate any, and am just using shreds of info from here & there. I feel I cannot adequately interpret the aspects on the home work with the scanty info I have. I have identified Vesta, Lilith, Juno, Ceres, and Pallas Athene. What is the sixth one whose symbol is a line with two circles on opposite ends? Is the Lilith you use the Black Moon Lilith, and what exactly are the differences in the 3 Liliths? Clara
(Answer) the best author on asteroids is Demetra George who has several books out on this, including one on Lilith and the three of them...the symbol that you ask about I think is Posidion...God bless, Jeffrey
(Question) 22-May-1999 Circle With 2 Lines Glyph - Astraea? I'm not completely certain because I haven't found a lot of info on that glyph either, but I have found one reference (Astrology Encyclopedia by James Lewis - asteroid glyph pics in front section) that lists it as Astaea, the 5th asteroid discovered after the big four - ceres, pallas, vesta, juno. It's the blindfolded goddess of justice who holds the scales, he says. Paraphrasing Barry McKenna, whose book on this asteroid he sites, he said it's the asteroid that "represents the most important individual needs, for one which one must take personal responsibility. At the same time, it is easy for the needs indicated by this asteroid to be set aside because of other needs and influences." In working with my own chart work -- I've found this definition fits quite well, but I also would like to learn more about it. Does anyone else have any info on or experience with this? kim
(Addition) correction - meant line with 2 circles kim
(Question) 19-Oct-1999 Equality in Rulership The issue I would like to discuss is the "natural" rulership system. It is my feeling that innate balance of yin/yang in the zodiac was distorted when the patriarchy assigned their own gods to the signs. It seems to me that the only two female images that they felt comfortable with were the moon/mother and Venus/consort. It is interesting to note that many esoteric astrologers even advocate that a spiritually evolved person should transcend and essentially eliminate the moon function from their lives. My questions are:
1. In what ways have feminine archetypes been distorted and which ones have been simply omitted?
2. Specifically, why is the earth completely ignored? Isn't she a powerful force in our lives which seems to naturally rule Taurean functions? It seems to me the earth as ruler of Taurus also lends a different emphasis to the nature of Taurus as the power to sustain ourselves on the physical plane.
3. It isn't much of a stretch of the imagination to see that Pisces and Scorpio have been masked with the faces of male gods, in spite of their inherently feminine natures. Can I trust that the rapist is an accurate symbol for the soul?
4. Capricorn is another yin sign which is ruled by a male god, but in this case the entire interpretation of the sign has taken on a masculine character. Is there a feminine force lurking beneath the sea goat? Or does Capricorn imply on some level the unification of male/female within oneself?
5. The other sign that speaks of balance between male and female is Libra, an air/yang sign ruled by Venus. Although I believe Venus does naturally rule Libra, I find it interesting that one of the two Godesses left in the zodiac was assigned a masculine, logical and dry mode in which to operate.
6. This leaves Virgo. It does not make a lot of sense to me that an earth sign is ruled by Mercury. I assign the asteroids to Virgo. Because the asteroids occupy the gap in our solar system between Mars and Jupiter, I believe that there once was a feminine power represented by a planet in that orbit. Is it the karma of our solar system that a whole aspect of the feminine consciousness was blown to bits? To try and discover the lost meaning of Virgo I have looked to the symbolism of the sacred virgin/prostitute, Vesta and the practices and discrimination we use to maintain our sacred fire aka sexual energy. Other asteroids contribute other qualities to this sign, for example, Ceres and the sheaf of grain...
At this time, this is simply my line of thought. I do not apply these principles to chart interpretation, due to the ambiguity of where the earth is found in any chart. Does she represent the entire circle? It is also difficult when the rulers of Virgo are scattered throughout the chart, for me not to get lost in the complexity that represents. Furthermore, I feel really green (no pun intended) and would like some feedback on the validity of these thoughts. bambi
(Answer) 1. To answer this question is to understand that the very nature of women, naturally speaking, has itself been distorted and misunderstood by men, the patriarchy, even since its transition began. Thus, any archetype that correlates to the feminine principle in astrology itself is a reflection of the generalized misunderstanding of women’s natural nature. Simple example of this point is that up until very recent times women’s sexuality was understood by men to be essentially passive, and that orgasm had no actual biological purpose or function. in reality of course women’s sexual nature is identical to men’s in the context of also having a natural impulse to sexually initiate an encounter. The role of orgasm is specific to drawing up the sperm of the man upon ejaculation in order to conceive. so to pinpoint any one astrological symbol via distortions to the feminine application of it is not the point.
2. The earth in not ignored... it is reflected in the fact of your birth/birth chart calculated for a time/space/place on earth. The element of earth is also stressed in astrology as is water, air, etc. Venus has an inner application thru Taurus that does indeed correlate with the very survival instinct in all forms of life, including human. the survival instinct in turn creates the awareness in all people of what is needed to survive, and to be sustained. in turn this requires all of us to inwardly determine what inherent resources we have to effect such survival, and/ or what we need from others, the natural inconjunct back to Libra from Taurus, external projections now based on survival needs that we depend on others to fulfill. This is earth stuff.
3. the 'rapist' can only occur in a reality that is removed from and suppressing natural sexual laws. in this context the phenomena of rape correlates to Scorpio, Pluto, the 8th house. all things emanate from the soul so such a soul who has enough inner rage/ distortion sexually/psychologically speaking can become a rapist.
4.yes, relative to the cancer polarity this is the archetype of the inner male/ female, gender assignment as described by the consensus of any society, and progressively from an evolutionary point of view, via the natural squares to Aries and Libra, the necessity of arriving at a state of androgyny. The feminine side of Capricorn is reflected in the deep inner need to loose control and to access chaos in the sense of chaos becoming a vehicle to create structural change of one's reality, and one's consciousness .
5. of course it makes sense because one of the functions of mercury is to understand the nature of the phenomenal nature of creation as expressed on earth, thus the need to learn about the inherent reality on earth... to understand it is then to a mental organization of it, and the mental organization of it provides the information or knowledge necessary to live within it... again, natural feminine consciousness was progressively distorted relative to the patriarchal transition... even your statement about the 'sacred prostitute', for example is a myth in the sense that men created this role for women, it is not a role that women created for themselves... Virgo, feminized by men, has equaled the pathetic notion of the chaste virgin and all that... the idea of purity/sexuality/the Madonna syndrome... in reality Virgo sexualized in a highly sexed sign naturally... Jeffrey
(Question) 23-Oct-1999 Saturn & Uranus as I already told you in my last email here are my questions: 1. You report on one of your tapes, that Saturn and Uranus have a 48-year cycle and that each phase correlates to 8 years. I have looked into the ephemerides: there was the second to the last conjunction of Uranus and Saturn on 4th of May 42 and the last one on 18th of October 88 and the next will be on the 29th of June 2032 ..., so there are only 46 years or 44 years between the exact conjunctions ... And I am also a little bit confused, because you said, that each phase correlates to 8 years - but doesn`t each phase correlate to 6 years instead of 8 years?
2. You spoke about NN and SN of the each planet. This seems to be very interesting. Unfortunately, I have heard that there isn't any book available at the moment containing NN and SN of the planets. However there shall be a computer program containing the NN and SN of each planet. It is of Dr. Theodor Langscheid (?) if I have understood the name correctly ... Do you know the program and will you recommend it?
3. The charts which I have received of Hugo also contain asteroids. Do you use the asteroids by interpret the charts or don't you work with them?
4. You have told your students about laya yoga on one of your video tapes in which you told your student that you will teach them this method ... is this contained on one of your videos? And if not, is there any possibility to learn it? Nikky
(Answer) 1. Yes, sometimes the cycle is shorter than the 48 years because the motion of the planets is irregular. so each cycle must be calculated to determine the actual length. It can fluctuate from 46 to 48 years...
2. Yes, you can actually download that German program off my website for free. It just lists the positions without commentary.
3. The asteroids are not necessary to use in terms of the evolutionary paradigm but for those students who wish to employ them that is fine. Particularly Lilith, all three, Chiron and its nodal axis, Eros, Vesta, Ceres, and Juno. I don't remember that it is on any video... the method under the Yogananda teachings is called the 'om technique' and is contained in his spiritual correspondence course available thru self-realization fellowship, or the amrita foundation in Dallas, Texas. Jeffrey
(Question) 28-Oct-1999 Asteroids thanks for your answers and your time. Your answers made everything as clear as daylight. But there is one question left: if I wish to employ the asteroids...can you recommend any book or computer program to learn more about the asteroids? Nikky
(Answer) Yes, the very best author in all of astrology that deals with the archetypal nature of various asteroids is Demetra George. Any book.. Relative to Chiron it is Barbara Hand Clow. When you begin to investigate this stuff it truly is amazing. I used to be a total skeptic about the asteroids but after having a private chat with Demetra one day, who knew nothing of my personal life, she accurately described my experience in childhood just thru certain asteroids. I was not a skeptic after that. There are over 7,000 named asteroids. If you go to a place on the web called download.com and type is astrology in their search engine, you will be presented with a list of various programs that you can download. One of them is called starlogin... this is an absolutely free program that combines astrology and astronomy. Within the program there is a program called asteroids that lists all 7,000 and gives you the option to calculate their positions for any given date. It is a large program, like 10 mb so it takes about 45 minutes to download. But it is highly worth it. One of the things about all these asteroids is that you can typically find ones that have names that connect to important people in your life. For example, the asteroid Martina, my wife, natally for me is exactly conjunct her pluto ! My first astrological mentor, a guy names Robert Jansky, the asteroid 'Jansky' is conjunct the asteroid 'Urania'..this being the asteroid for astrology... both being conjunct my MC !... Jeffrey
(Question) 21-Dec-1999 Asteroids two questions about asteroids: 1. which of the Lilith's is the one on your homework charts? I know it's not the actual asteroid - is it black moon or dark moon Lilith, so I know what I’m working with -
2. why do you list Eros as one of the major asteroid to use, (along with Lilith, Chiron) - I have read Demetra George's description of Eros, but she list a few as important, would like to know what your reason is for naming Eros to use. Clara
(Answer) The one on the charts in the 3rd one, the resolution Lilith, and Eros, to me, is a very important asteroid just as the name implies... one's Eros. Jeffrey
(Question) 31-Dec-1999 Lilith/Asteroid Glyphs 1. Ref you reply to Clara regarding Lilith, I am unclear which Lilith you use - Dark Moon Lilith? 2. Is the glyph for Lilith the dot slash dot? 3. Is the glyph for Eros the caduceus? Mary
(Answer - from Clara) the resolution Lilith Jeffrey mentions as the one in the home work charts is the black moon Lilith, according to Demetra George, in her book the dark goddesses or something like that Clara
(Further comment - Clara) the glyph for Lilith in the homework charts is the vertical line with the "horns" on top & two circles, one bigger than the other, underneath the "horns' clara
(Question) 01-Jan-2000 Lilith 1. Ref. my previous msg, for clarification - the glyphs I am referring to are those given on your charts. 2. Re Lilith, do you know of any references to Lilith and the supposed 2nd Moon that once occupied our skies? I am curious because of various synchronicities that have occurred to me re Lilith suggesting this. It’s kind of crazy, but things keep coming back around to me full circle regarding this 2nd moon that wants expression, relative to the hidden, misconstrued archetype of Lilith and her key role in the feminine principle of life on earth.
I understand there are 3 Lilith’s, one of which is an observable asteroid in the sky. Her imprint signifies "repressed elements, often relating to sexuality, anger, assertion" (from M.Kelly Hunter article from Mtn Astrologer mag ). This is the Lilith I feel/sense when I observe the pattern of her name within my body - a deep hidden rage, like swirls of explosive repressed content. Could the asteroid be what remains of Lilith (once as our second moon) and carry her trauma, all the emotions relative to her destruction? Likewise, could this Lilith reflect and represent vibrationally the same emotional trauma from a human vantage historically - whether it is anger etc inflicted as an effect of polarized gender issues or a primal pain from very early times inflicted by humanity's interaction with others, i.e. ETs, that may have occurred concurrently?
The 2nd Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith, suggests to me some kind of astral imprint (? words fail me here) on the skies of what once physically existed, sorta like a ghost from the past. When certain phenomenon’s are in sync, she is observed by those that can "perceive" her "body". Hunter describes her as a "primal, impersonal, creative instinct that seeks identification apart from the physical and emotional realms". Her presence suggests to me some link of awareness to the nature of Lilith's operating dynamics in the past - what once was, historically, and carries the archetype of old male/female dynamics (held within the body on any or all PEMS levels).
The 3rd Lilith, Black Moon, suggests to me an energetic pattern of consciousness, emerging as the archetype of the aware male/female polarity, to realize that the separation is ultimately an illusion and that both genders are contained within oneself. This imprint is described by Hunter as "an energy vortex that cuts through the veils of illusion with the sword of truth." I suspect this consciousness has been waiting in the sidelines to be recognized by humanity once humanity was capable, or it became imperative for survival to receive its "sword of truth" regarding the dynamics of male/female polarity. This Lilith suggests to me what we each may need to bring back into form (physically, emotionally, mentally or spiritually) relative to regaining true awareness of our male/female polarity. I personally found the Sabians to correlate here: My Black Moon is conjunct Chiron in Aquarius 5thH opposite Leo Sun/Uranus in 11th. My Sabian's keyword is 'penetration' via the use of personal will (Aquarius 14). To surmount my karmic/evol implications, I need to bring into form the exercise of Self Will, which I had lost in previous lifetimes, very tragically, as both male and female entities, unsuccessfully attempting to merge spiritual awareness with earthly existence.
I read that Demetra George suggests each Lilith contains the entire symbolic meaning of the archetype. That makes sense to me. To tie all these Lilith's together, here's a story I offer using the 2 moon theory. This story came to me over a year ago. I had no idea what to do with it or what it meant. The appearance of Lilith seems to give it flesh and meaning, and useful purpose for healing old wounds and restructuring new patterns. Here goes, be it actual or metaphorical, you be the judge: At one time long ago, there were two moons, one white and the other red and each carried a gender signature. The white moon was male and the red moon (Lilith)was female. These moons provided both gender reflection and inner guidance for humanity. Thus, when both moons existed, the white moon provided women with female inner guidance; the red moon provided them with male reflection. The red moon provided men with male inner guidance; the white moon provided them with female reflection. The white moon that exists today is, according to this story, male, not female. The illusion of the white moon being female is due to the nature of duality, (warning, this gets tricky) i.e., what we view as white/female is the reflective quality of the male energy from the female aspect. Vice versa for the red female moon, a reflection of the female energy from the male aspect.
Now, consider the implications of losing the red moon, relative to the emergence of the patriarchal society and the evolution of our brains. First, the moons served as a filter, regulator and modulator of consciousness or universal energetic flow between the earth/humanity and the cosmos. If the moon was blown apart, as some speculate, females would lose their balance provided by the reflection of their male aspect via the red moon (remember this is dualistic/paradoxical) The affect would be females would not receive any further male reflection from the cosmos, nor inner guidance to manifest/exert their male energies. (a natural state of submission would result, i.e. patriarchy). The impact on males would be just as great, but different. The affect would be that males would not receive any further inner guidance of the feminine aspect from the cosmos. Without the inner connection or knowing, they would not have the means to manifest/exert their inherent female energies/capabilities.
This also ties in with the Cap/Cancer polarity which I believe from yr tapes governs rt/left brain balancing. With this story, an imbalance between the rt/female brain and left/male brain functions would occur. From a historical perspective, it suggests the emergence of the polarized way of thinking, or separation of body and mind, or what's termed the bicameral mind (ref. researcher psychologist Julian Jaynes book, 'The Emergence of Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind', plus ref. books by Ken Wilbur on evolution of consciousness.)
When both moons existed, rt/left brain balancing was controlled cosmically, via the energetic balance incurred by the dual moon system. There existed no separation between body and mind. Once this was destroyed, things changed. Separation of mind and body occurred. This precluded action on Nature's part(or was sweet Lilith's consciousness instrumental here?) to pick up the pieces and to begin re-establishing the linkup biologically, hence the emergence of the bicameral mind. According to Ken Wilbur, most of us are now in a state of consciousness reflecting an integration of body and mind. The next step up is non-dual awareness, which includes "knowing" on these levels progressively: shamanistic, saintly, sagely and Absolute.
What this boils down to is the effects of banishing Lilith from the Garden, or blowing her up as the case may be, precipitating our current state of affairs and earth crisis. This urgently calls for the necessity for us to do inner work, to rebalance rt/left brain function, to establish union of Male/female dynamics within oneself, consciously restoring the full integrative functions of that lost dual system, and completing the evolutionary task Nature (or Lilith) initiated. Perhaps Lilith has held this consciousness for us over these many long years and now holds the keys for us to access our own inner knowing to fulfill this evolutionary task. I think this is what Lilith is asking us to remember, and to do. Perhaps the clues are found in astrology within the gift of the triad named Lilith.
As an aside for readers of this much too long message, esoterically the color black correlates to female energy, the Black spiral, which comes up from the earth. Black moon Lilith's energy is said to come from the earth's center too. Kundalini energy, or life force is red, emanating from our root chakra, and also comes up from the earth, where we plant our "tree of life" roots, representing our connectedness to life itself, our will to live or desire to stay manifest in form, the feminine creative principle. Male energy correlates to the White spiral, which comes down from the cosmos, and/or the moon, as the case may be! Mary
(Answer) the three Lilith’s: the first Lilith correlates to the original natural women, the natural law of the feminine... the second Lilith correlates to the intense distortion to that natural archetype caused by the conditioning of the patriarchy which includes distorted emotions like rage, distorted sexuality, etc, and the third Lilith correlates of how to heal the second Lilith via the original imprint of the first Lilith... Jeffrey
to be continued ..................